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How Does This Happen In The US?

Some of you may recall that a little over a year ago, a woman in Buffalo, NY, Aasiya Zubair Hassan, was beheaded – yes, I said beheaded – allegedly by her husband, a Muslim with influence in his community, having created a tv network to improve the image of Muslims. He was charged with second degree murder. It was a shocking, troubling, disturbing crime on so many levels (Was it purely domestic violence? Were there religious influences at play?). (Photo: homelandsecurityus.com)

Much has transpired in the intervening year. I would like to thank No Quarter regular reader, Boonies, for sending me this update,
Aasiya Zubair Hassan’s Tortured, Manipulated Life
: Beheaded woman left statement detailing years of torment, tragedy.

I should warn you that, as the headline would indicate, this is a difficult story. It is about as far from a “feel good” story as one can get. It is painful, it is grotesque, and it is infuriating. Just so you know.

And now, to her story:

When Aasiya Zubair Hassan was finally ready to leave her husband, she prepared herself. She gathered copies of her police reports, photos of her beaten face, images of her ransacked house, scripts her husband made her memorize.

Then she painstakingly chronicled her years of torment in a 21-page court statement that painted her husband as not just a batterer, but a cruel, manipulative monster.

She detailed how he deprived her of sleep to “improve her personality,” made her sign memos authorizing him to punish her if she talked with the police and Child Protective Services, and threatened her with the loss of her children whenever she tried to break free.

Toward the end of her statement appealing for divorce in February 2009, she reflected on how furious her husband would be when he saw the document: “I am afraid of what he might do.”

One week later, she was dead. Her husband, Muzzammil “Mo” Hassan, led police to her stabbed and decapitated body in the Bridges TV studio they founded in Orchard Park.

Anyone who has done any work in the field of domestic violence, as I have, knows that this is when a woman is most at risk – when she is planning her escape. Unfortunately, this case does nothing to change that statistic:

None of this has apparently stopped Hassan from continuing — in letters to reporters and in his defense in court — to try to paint himself as the victim and his wife as the abuser.

“He was the abuser. He was the perpetrator. Now, he’s the manipulator,” said Afshan Qureshi, an advocate of domestic violence victims who knew both Aasiya Zubair Hassan, Hassan’s third wife, and Sadia Hassan, his second wife. “Those who are good at emotional abuse are good manipulators.”

From the Erie County jail, Hassan has sent handwritten letters to The Buffalo News and others portraying himself as an abused and battered spouse. In each case, he signed his mother’s name to the documents.

“If you are a mother like me, would you like to see your son being abused and cannot even turn to the system for help?” stated one letter.

It is clear that he wrote the letters, not his mother. Hassan, 45, has neat and distinctive penmanship. The News found the handwriting in all these letters match that of other documents signed under his own name. The postmarks are from Buffalo; his mother lives in Texas.

If you have any desire to read any of the letters this man has forged, click HERE, and you can get to them through links in the article.

I am not surprised by his actions. Rather, they seem to be pretty typical for someone like him:

Hassan seems to have no reservations about manipulating people by assuming other identities. In numerous cases, he appeared to have secretly authored documents that re-created reality and/or portrayed his wife as a dominating, mentally unstable woman.

Among the examples:

• Zubair Hassan stated that her husband forced her to give him the password to her e-mail account and subsequently logged into her account and sent e-mails to his attorney and his court-appointed psychologist pretending to be her.

One e-mail sent to psychologist Kenneth Condrell opens by stating, “I have been reading the Dale Carnegie book on “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” There is a chapter about admitting mistakes quickly and apologizing profusely and repeatedly. It struck me as a thuderbolt [sic] that I had difficulty admitting a mistake to Mo and struggled to apologize.”

It goes on to state, “I honestly do not believe he belongs in the Domestic Violence class. He has so much insights [sic] into human behavior and self-awareness.”

• While preparing to defend himself in a child neglect case, Hassan scripted the responses he wanted his wife to give when his defense lawyer questioned her in court. He made her stay home for two days to memorize her answers, she said.

In response to a question by defense lawyer David Siegel, “Do you think you are a battered woman?” Zubair Hassan was to respond as stated in the script: “What nonsense. Complete hogwash. I have always been a strong woman and a high achiever and no one violates my boundaries … My husband cannot tell me what I can and cannot do. I am my own person.”

• Hassan apparently drafted a letter for psychologist Condrell to sign describing his wife as a dominating and aggressive woman and further stating that “this personality profile test further indicates that Mrs. Hassan does not have the personality of a typical abused wife.”

The draft letter goes on to state “that there is no safety need that requires keeping Mr. and Mrs. Hassan apart over the next 6 months.”

A copy of the actual letter signed by Condrell and obtained by The News is much shorter. In it, Condrell states the personality test taken by Zubair Hassan as part of her master’s program in business “shows her to be a dominant, strong willed, aggressive woman.”

But he does not suggest that she wasn’t abused and does not state that her husband posed no safety threat. Further, it omits all references from the draft letter describing the husband as being “a persuasive, poised, influential, convincing, demonstrative and trusting person.”

Wow. Again, I wish I could say this was unusual. I cannot tell you the lengths to which some abusers have gone to play the victim, or to try and manipulate others involved in the situation to deny what the abuser has been doing, often for a number of years (and it usually starts out slowly, little by little, chipping away at the person’s self esteem, belittling them, then isolating them, cutting them off from finances, and on it goes):

In Hassan’s handwritten letter to The News, he states that Condrell testified in court that “Aasiya was aggressive, controlling and arrogant, while Mo was humble, kind and polite.”

Condrell declined to comment on the matter, citing his professional ethics, but Hassan’s statements are not supported by Condrell’s letter to the court.

• Hassan wrote two letters to The News under his mother’s name. The second letter included annotated copies of e-mails purportedly between Hassan and his wife.

“Inaccurate image’

The letters describe Hassan as part of an “epidemic” of battered men and cite authors and experts who have addressed the issue. They also describe his wife as an abuser who “needed proper medical help.”

“Many news stories have presented an inaccurate image of my son … The main reason for his difficulties is that he is too much of a people pleaser who avoids conflict. For years he kept appeasing a demanding wife. The more he appeased her, the more demanding she became,” one letter stated.

These actions are attributed to a man described as “manipulative” and “sick” by those who knew him and/or Zubair Hassan.

“She’s gone, and now the only thing he can destroy is her reputation,” said Faizan Haq, who once worked with both husband and wife. “He has nothing else in his control except her name. In a way, he’s still abusing her. He hasn’t stopped.”

In January, defense lawyer Frank M. Bogulski stated in court that Hassan was a “battered spouse” and promised “a revolutionary defense” that would get Hassan acquitted, using both psychiatric elements and legal justification.

Both defense lawyers, Bogulski and Julie Atti Rogers, state they are not committed to a specific defense and have not seen the divorce affidavit by Zubair Hassan.

“An affidavit is only one person’s side,” Bogulski cautioned. “Just because it was put in an affidavit doesn’t mean it was true.”

That’s exactly what I mean. The batterer often presents him(her)self as the batteree (if you will), often knowing the correct language to use to try and make that case, the right buttons to push. I cannot tell you how many times the batterer will get a restraining order against the person whom they are battering. It is far more common than one might think. at least in this case, the DA seemed to have a clue:

District Attorney Frank Sedita laughed when he heard of Hassan’s self-portrayal as a victim last week.

“What do any of these claims have to do with the issue that is before the court and the issue that will be before the jury?” he said. “Is there sufficient evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant murdered his wife? That is the only issue to this point.”

In Zubair Hassan’s divorce appeal to the court, she attached 16 exhibits attesting to her husband’s abusive and controlling nature.

One exhibit, dated March 7, 2008, is a formally written, “confidential” memorandum of understanding that Hassan made his wife sign.

In it, both spouses “agree” that under threat of punishment, Zubair Hassan will not call, cooperate with, or threaten to call law enforcement. She also “agrees” not to threaten to leave him.

Physical abuse

The sworn statement signed by Zubair Hassan a week before she died brings to light many other details of a terrifying reality.

Contrary to Hassan’s assertions to The News that he never used his physical size to overpower his wife, Zubair Hassan’s sworn statement is full of instances where she claims he used his size and strength to imprison or physically hurt her.

Most of those claims are supported by police reports, photographs and witnesses. Among the worst incidents described by Zubair Hassan that were previously unknown to The News:

• When Zubair Hassan unexpectedly became pregnant in early summer of 2006, her husband, who is a stocky 6-foot-2, imprisoned her in the bedroom and sat on her until she admitted she needed psychiatric help.

In two separate incidents later that month, he punched her in the face, and dragged her down the driveway and sat on her after trying to convince her to have an abortion. She subsequently miscarried.

• The family’s four children — two older ones from a previous marriage, and two very young children born to Zubair Hassan — were also victims.

Child Protective Services investigated several complaints lodged by school personnel against Hassan for physical abuse of the children and his wife, ransacking the house and otherwise posing a threat to their safety.

Jennifer Greer, who baby-sat for the Hassan children from 2002 to 2008, said the young daughter would talk about hearing thunder on nights when there was no storm, and the young son spent much of his life living in an imaginary world where everyone was a superhero and they all cared for each other.

“It was heartbreaking to watch him go through that,” she said.

As we know, children also pay a price when there is domestic violence in the home. Sadly, this story is no exception:

• In October 2007, Zubair Hassan tried to fly to New York for a few days, but while Greer was driving her to the airport along Route 219 with the two young children in the back seat, Hassan ran their car off the road.

Greer cried as she recalled the terrified children in the car.

“Raising them, they were like my own kids,” she said. “All of us could have died on that day.”

• Hassan repeatedly punched his wife in the face until blood was pouring out her nose in April 2008. His wife recalled the oldest daughter screaming to her father, “I’m taking her to the hospital. I don’t care what you say. I’m not going to let her die here.”

Hassan did not let her seek medical treatment and refused to let her leave the house for a week because of her bruises, Zubair Hassan stated.

Two previous wives

Zubair Hassan was not the only woman who charged Hassan with abuse. So did his two previous wives.

Qureshi, president of Saathi of Rochester, a domestic violence program for South Asian women, said Hassan once pushed his second wife, Sadia, out of a moving car.

After the Muslim community intervened on her behalf, he told her she could have a divorce and get her green card only if she let him claim he was the abused victim.

“She was very scared,” Qureshi said. “She didn’t know what to do, where to go.”

Zubair Hassan asked for an order of protection as part of her divorce appeal, allowing her husband to be near her only at the Bridges TV studio, where she was later found dead.

“I am fearful for my children’s safety as well as my own,” she stated.

Hassan’s lawyers said their client shouldn’t be convicted by the media before his murder trial begins in September.

“We don’t in any way want to disparage Aasiya or her memory,” Bogulski said. “This is a horrible tragedy. But at the same time, we have to keep in mind that there is a presumption of innocence in regard to my client, and we ask the public to keep an open mind.”How Dostan@buffnews.com

Oh, yes. That is important – presumed innocence and not trying cases in the media. Though Hassan DID tell police his wife was dead, and her body was found at his business. But still, right?

I have written a fair amount about Women’s History this month, and as much as it pains me to say, this is a part of our history, too. Not even so much our history as it is the present for far too many of us (95% of battered persons are women). Chances are good that right now, right this very second, a woman is being battered. Almost half (42%) of women who are murdered are killed by people with whom they are intimate. That is an issue of monumental proportion, if you ask me. I am glad that Secretary Clinton acknowledged in her recent speech to the UN that we have a ways to go for women’s equality here at home, but wow – do we ever.

But whatever we do to address this critical issue, it will be too late for Aasiya Zubair Hassan, and a number of other women in this country. That is just heartbreaking. But we must push on, we must put a stop to violence against women once and for all. And we must do it NOW!

  • Captain Jack Sparrow

    It’s a very cold world and this is just one of many stories that no one ever hears about. However these stories are all not just male on female. To be fair while a minority is female on male this is still a two headed coin and spousal abuse should not be tolerated no matter which side starts it. PERIOD!

  • I’m a Linda too

    Oh, this is terrifying on many levels.

    RRRA wrote “Wow. Again, I wish I could say this was unusual. I cannot tell you the lengths to which some abusers have gone to play the victim”

    …YEAH, we have that coming from our countries Leadership.  And to complete the scenario, they are blaming the citizens for not supporting their corrupt, fraudulent backdoor deal making, terrible bill.

    Saul Alinsky and Mao must have really made impressions on these losers!

    And, to the direct persons involved in your post.  I remember this very well.  How horrible this all is.  I did not know how extensive her torture was.  But why, with so much happening, as you rightly pointed out, the leaving is the worst.  Why didn’t they protect her and know if she made it alive this far, that all becomes questionable when she leaves him.  So terrible and sad.

  • Hadrianus

    Although the superceded religions—mother Judaism and sister Christianity both have serious issues in regard to their treatment of women, there is something fundamentally ,unredeemably and unrepentantly evil about Islam.  Its theory may or may not be admirable depending upon who is reviewing it, but  it’s actual  practice all over the world,  has proven over and over again to be the ugliest of the three morally bankrupt monotheistic faiths.

  • Captain Jack Sparrow

    “has proven over and over again to be the ugliest of the three morally bankrupt monotheistic faiths.”

    The faiths are not bankrupt, its the people inside them that are bankrupt.  If everyone followed the 10 commandments or even the 5 Pillars… the world would be a much better place. Don’t blame the religion blame those who have commandeered them.

  • Hadrianus

    The first commandment of the ten sounds to me to be a petulant trantrum from a spoiled child.  A diety who is socially undeveloped and cannot abide to have others in the same play pen. You must be aware that what you say is a cop out since all of the above religions are made up of the people who believe in them. Religion does not stand isolated from practice. Study the tenets of these faiths–and don’t just cherry pick what you like from them, and you will see what I mean.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    IALT, the sad fact is that most (all?) of these women are not protected when they are trying to leave.  Unless they have friends or family with them to take them someplace safe (and undisclosed), they will be at tremendous risk.  Batterers have no qualms abt going to work places, either.

    And Cap’n Jack, I agree that all domestic abuse should be eradicated, though the grossly disproprotionate amt of violence directed at women, primarily by men, is a systemic problem in this society.

  • Guest

    “Honor killings” and other religiously justified violence should be declared first degree murder/assault.  There should be no room/no tolerance in this country for anyone who feels justified in beheading his wife, stoning his daughter, etc.  There should be no “freedom of religion” applied as an excuse for these crimes.  Enough.  Murder — first degree murder — is murder.  As for violence against women, no matter who speaks out (and SOS Clinton’s words are always appreciated on this issue), no matter how many “seminars, conferences, training sessions and other b.s.” on the subject … it’s still very clear that the tolerance for this behavior exists. The majority of our citizens are women.  And yet, look at these leading women in our nation:
    Hillary Clinton is a voice crying in the wilderness on this issue, even as she continues to find opportunities to speak out as she travels the world on behalf “other issues.”
    Michelle Obama is not talking about murdered women, she’s talking about fat children.  Better to be thin (and dead) than to be fat (and dead)?
    Nancy Pelosi is giving every ounce of her being over to passing major legislation and making sure her members do not have to vote on it.  She don’t know nothin’ ’bout murdered women.  Don’t care, either. 
    And, if anyone cares, Oprah is too busy with her book clubs, personal trainers, and celebrity interviews to tackle this issue.

  • FembotsForObama

    WOW.  This makes me livid.  I’m not surprised that his two ex-wives also cited a history of abuse.  And, it’s also been my experience that the abuser really does feel he’s the victim in their own warped self-pitying way.  The more prestige in the community they have, the more difficult it is to get others to accept it.   

    Do you know if domestic violence rates are higher or occur more frequently for immigrant women?

  • I’m a Linda too

    I just don’t understand why authorities who are trained in this don’t go all the way with precautios for the victims. :(

  • Recovering Demoholic

    Judge Married Woman, Suspected Abuser:

    http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/1805/1356585?title=broadcast_local

    On day of trial suspends trial for assault — postponement — get license — married by trial judge — spousal privilege — assault charges dismissed — aaaaargh!

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Captain Jack,

    Far too many men always try to equate women to men abuse as anywhere near the men to women abuse. There is simply no comparison.  Yes, both are wrong, but the pervasiveness of male violence against women is epidemic and pervasive.

    Also, you will never find any religious tenant where women claim superiorty over men and therefore are entitled to honor killings, even when the woman is raped.

    Why can’t men accept that this behavior is pervasive as a result of the misogynistic/patriarchial society amongst men of all religions in varying degrees.  The goal is anything but “spiritual” but solely to oppress women in order to control them and to appease their lack of respect for women, and in some cases, hatred.  Men hide behind religion to excuse and rationalize this criminal behavior to avoid being held accountable.  The best solution is to face it head on and to admit the majority of men in society view women as property and believe they can treat them as such. 

    The big question that needs to be answered by men is, what will it take for them to realize how destructive this kind of behavior is to them, as well as to women, and why is it so difficult to embrace the truth that women have the same right as they do to live their lives to the fullest, and to be able to do so without fear of violence, abuse and death by the men who are supposed to love them? 

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Well said, Kathleen.  On all counts, I must say.  Thanks, Kathleen!

    I can’t resist restating that there is often this ratchet reaction to equate violence done to men as comparable to violence done to women.  As I said above, violence against women is systemic in this culture, and the overwhelming number of batterees are women (95%). 

    Your big questions is SPOT ON!!!  The other piece of that is, men who do not batter count on those who do to “keep women in order.”  Until ALL Men are willing to stop treating women as less than, it will make ending violence against women difficult indeed…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    HOLY CRAP.  You have got to be kidding me.  No, I know you’re not.  This is wrong on so, so many levels…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Time?  Money?  I knew one woman whose batterer was buddies with the local cops.  You can just guess how much they helped her…

  • Reddraggon22

    Apologists for the patriarchal montheisms insist their erasure of women has nothing to do with what their religion “is.” Bull. In fact, these all-male religions are based on eliminating feminine deities, priestesses, intermediaries, and cosmologies of connection among all living entities, and on the coercive, systemic subordination of women under an ideology of male supremacy. The pathology of these religions is not incidental to what they are, not the usurpation by hijackers, but integral to their premises and structure. No such religion can be considered just or peaceful.
     
    Islam takes these premises to the far end of extreme, and it condones, encourages, and glorifies acting them out with impunity. Liberal and Leftist Islamic appeasers pose a grave danger to women everywhere and to the future of our country and to western civilization—which, though deeply flawed, is much to be preferred to the atavistic barbarism of Islam and Sharia.  
     
     
     
     

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    “Presumption of Innocence” is a fantasy perpetuated by the the legal profession.

    There isn’t any language in the Constitution or law states the accused is innocent until proven guilty. The law only stipulates that the accused cannot be held or deprived of liberty without due process.

    The accused does not have the burdon of proving innocence. Due process requires that the government prove the case for guilt, and that the accused receives an impartial trial.

    An advocate for the accused is tasked with making sure the accused receives due process.

    Defense attorneys are the first to say the state must prove their clients guilt, and their client does not have to prove innocence. Yet time and again the same attorneys attempt to prove innocence by proclaiming “my client is innocent”.

    The justice system, the public, and all humanity would be better served if advocates were required to only say “my client is entitled to due process” and can the “my client is innocent” bit.

    The public would be well served if all lawyers had to take the ”oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” so help them god, before they speak anything of a case in public or the court.

    If witnesses must speak the truth under the threat of perjury, why are attorneys not held to the same standard?

    Even after the accused is found guilty in court, defense attorneys still proclaim, “My client is innocent”

    If there such a thing as “innocent until proven guilty” why are there no attorneys saying “I guess my client did it” after they are found guilty by the court?

    Stick to the law and the facts and save the public from the BS.

  • Recovering Demoholic

    Judge Darrell Russell quipped, “… I can’t sentence you as a defendant in any crimes, but earlier today, I sentenced you to life, married to her.”

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I am going to throw up now.

    It is precisely that kind of sexism/misogyny that is so rampant in this society…

  • Tricia

    Teriible, terrible, terrible…and so very sad.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    The court literally became the enabler.

    The judge sounded like he had been drinking. Well, it was a wedding after all, with an open bar in the judges chambers.

    Not one, but two judges agreed to this. The second judge waived the 48 hr waiting period for a marriage license.

    You just know violence against women is not taken seriously when the court system skirts the law to protect the accused.

  • Ladydawnelle

    >:o :’( =-O >:o :’( :’( :’(

  • Diana L. C.

    I lived in Canon City, CO, for a long time.  It’s our state prison town.  It’s a small town.  The biggest employers are the school system and the prison system.  Many of the guards should have been on the other side of the bars, IMHO.  A prison town has a higher than average number of domestic violence cases.  Some of the guards have absolute control over the prisoners, know the tricks, and come home and use them on their families.  Try getting sympathy from police when it’s a prson guard you’re accusing.  Most of them are relatives, anyway, in a town that small.  And one like that is often isolated from larger, more populated areas.  There is little in the way of work available for some of the women, and almost none that will support her and children, etc.

    I get so angry and depressed by stories like this one.  Women have been the abusers in many cases, but give me a break–the type of violence mentioned in this story is far more than most any women could commit against a man.  And, add to that the cultural aspect, a culture that basically views women as possessions without rights.

    I am sure that this type of thing will not end soon (understatement), but better law enforcement procedures to protect women would help.  A system of state-funded and guarded safehouses would be nice in cases like this.  Something!

    I had many items that I donated to a battered women’s shelter once.  It was funded as a charity.  They could not afford to pick up the items.  I volunteered to bring them.  In order to do that, I had to sign papers indicating that I would never divulge the location.  I could not bring anyone with me.  To be abused and then to have to live as if you are a wanted criminal or a spy or somehow not supposed to be in the country.  That’s wrong!  We do need a better way to protect women and help them get out of these situations.

  • bob

    I was once a child in a household like that. I am old, a grandparent, now, but I still remember it all quite vividly. And yes, the cycle stopped with me. My kids never saw me raise a hand or a voice and neither has their mother. We can help people trapped in these situations– get involved with your local REACH or other shelter– but do be careful– helping hands can be targets, too.

  • Olivia1998

    I fundraiser for the local woman’s shelter in my area and this is becoming all to common in our country.  The Muslim community is challenging our laws.  We’ll soon be like the UK.

  • Diana L. C.

    This story is just unbelievable.  Thanks, I think, Recovering Demoholic.  I am sure the several men involved all got togehter afterward, had a few drinks, and the guy went home to lord it over his new “property.”

  • Diana L. C.

    Robert Graves, the great expert on Classical mysthology, theorized the same about those religions.  They developed as a largely matriarchal society was overturned by a patriarchal society. 

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Excellent comment.

    Again, yes, some women are abusive, but it is such an incredibly small number compared to men (95% for men), and again, the violence against women is systemic in our culture.

    Olivia, interesting that you mentioned the UK.  I just saw something abt the Muslim community and Sharia law in the UK the other day…

    Speaking of, you may want to check out THIS article abt one of Obama’s advisers…

  • ~~JustMe~~

    The trouble here is a woman in this position looses all self respect. They begin to believe no one will believe them if they where to go out and try find help. This is exactly what the perpetrator wants, gives them the power and control over a helpless woman! A woman can only fight/struggle back for so long then all the strength is then depleted
    physically & emotionally. The abuse effects rational thinking which results in a vicious circle of not knowing what to do or how to get out of the situation! Sadly many too, hate to feel they have failed and find it difficult to reach out for help and continue to cover up for the beast of a man they live with.
    More should be done to educate women from a young age if they find themselves in this situation how to align themselves with ways to find safe reliable help.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thank you, bob – for sharing your experience, and for the violence stopping with you. Your comment brought tears to my eyes.

    You are so right, too, abt those who help becoming targets, too.  But there are certainly ways to help women in these situations, whether it be donated cell phones to shelters, or clothes, furniture, etc.  All kinds of ways to help, but the bigget way is to work to stop the cycle…

  • ~~JustMe~~

    The trouble here is a woman in this position looses all self respect. They begin to believe no one will believe them if they where to go out and try find help. This is exactly what the perpetrator wants, gives them the power and control over a helpless woman! A woman can only fight/struggle back for so long then all the strength is then depleted physically & emotionally.

    The abuse effects rational thinking which results in a vicious circle of not knowing what to do or how to get out of the situation!

    Sadly many too hate to feel they have failed and find it difficult to reach out for help and continue to cover up for the beast of a man they live with.

    More should be done to educate women from a young age if they find themselves in this situation how to align themselves with ways to find safe reliable help.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    “affects” ?

  • Diana L. C.

    Exactly!  I never, never, never ask a women why she doesn’t “just leave.”  That’s insulting.  If I suspect abuse, I simply make sure that the person knows I believe she doesn’t deserve to be treated cruelly and that I will help however I can.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Exactly, Diana.  There are numerous reasons why women can’t leave, don’t have the means to leave, don’t know how to get away, and on it goes.  But that doesn’t even begin to address the emotional and psychological aspects of battering…

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    I do not believe these abusers think for one nanosecond that they are victims. The entire “I am a victim” is the continuing manipulation.

    Many of these men are pure sociopaths. They have no feeling for their victims. It is all about control.

    The attempt to portray themselves as victims is their effort to continue control over their victims.

    Crimes of rape, and abuse of children have a similar psychology. There is no worse crime than abuse of women and children.

    In a long ago part of my life I was a trained crisis counselor. When I see abusers like Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson (no relation), Muzzammil “Mo” Hassan, OJ, et al, I have the urge to batter them bloody and senseless before exterminating them from the humanity.

    That is why I will never be selected as a juror.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    I hear you Linda…. been there got the t-shirt last thing I wanted to hear was why don’t you just leave. However I did I did a moonlight flit,  I moved over 275 miles, I was lucky in the sense I did not have children as that must make it so much harder for a woman in this situation.
     
    I was able to move and start over many as we see never get that chance!

  • AnnieCarmel

    Back in the 80′s I met a Pakastani woman who had been forced to flee the country because of her husband’s relentless abuse.  She was from a prominent family; her father a recognized Sufi poet, her husband head of the medical services for the country.  She had waited until her 3 children were out of the house; daughter married, sons in university and then divorced him.  The beatings had gotten so bad (she had a scar on her cheek where he had burned her with a cigarette) that her even father begged her to leave him.  She said he told her he would publicly humiliate himself if she wouldn’t leave “this monster” saying:  “What do I have to do, take off my turban and lay it at your feet?”

    She took up the cause of divorced and widowed women; she recognized that coming from privilege, she didn’t have the same dangers as poor women and began to organize co-operatives for communal living and hand work for export as a way to support themselves instead of begging or prostitution.  At the time, the Bhuto government was in power and leaned toward the West.  Because of that she was supported in her organization.  When he was assassinated and Zia came into power she was told in no uncertain terms to “get behind the veil and shut-up.”  Her husband felt humiliated by the divorce and her support of women and wanted her arrested.  The American embassy knew she was in danger and told her if they thought her arrest was imminent they’d get her to the USA, to be ready to leave the country at a moment’s notice because if she ever went to prison, she’d never be seen again.  She told me her downfall came because she took an “arrogant, egotistical stand” and challenged their authority (no veil, didn’t shut-up).  When she got her warning, the embassy gave her a temporary human rights visa based on government threats to her life, and a plane ticket to the USA.  She brought a suitcase of clothing and her jewelry.  When Reagan became POTUS and recognized Zia’s government, she lost her visa designation because Pakistan became a “friendly country”.  She had to fight to stay in the country (about $800 everytime she had to pay the immigration lawyer) all the while working in retail boutiques in Carmel for minimum wage (back then $4/hr).  Every cent she earned went toward survival; rent, food and immigration lawyer.  I think her sons were able to help a little over the years but she was essentially here on her own.  Sometime in the 90′s,  she became ill, only able to work off and on, and after a finally died of kidney failure.  I never forgot her story and I never forgot the Pakistanis and how ruthless they and most Muslim men are.

  • Cindy

    Annie—Oh my gosh, what a life for that woman.
     Thank you for sharing that story.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    What an unbelievable story, an unbelievably POWERFUL story.  Wow, Annie – what a journey this woman had, what a price she paid for being a womean for too many years in too many ways.  I am just shaking my head.

    And the stroke of the pen and Pakistan becoming a friend to us?  I am reminded of this clip from “The West Wing”:

  • Cindy

    Just Me—-I’m so thrilled for you that you were able to start a new life! Thank you for telling us about your experience.

  • Cindy

    Rev. Amy—-It IS hard to read a story like this…but I know it’s just as hard, if not harder, for you to read through pages of material like this so that you can inform and educate.
    We appreciate your dedication!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Thank you Cindy so am I.
    The sad fact is regardless of where we are from or the life we have had any amount of abuse on a woman should never taken lightly. Sadly there are women all around us, being abused as we speak!

  • TeakWoodKite

    It is a very cold with you in it making comments like that. Who starts it?

    Never Again

  • TeakWoodKite

    It is a very cold world with you in it making comments like that. Who starts it? Are you some kind of abused sparrow?
     
    Never Again

  • sowsear

    What a guy!

  • sowsear

    And what’s wrong with this woman???

  • sowsear

    Yes, and we are supposed to welcome them to our country. Should we be surprised if some bring their old ways with them?

  • EllenD

    Oh go away!

  • EllenD

    At least I agree with the prosecutor. It doesn’t matter how much garbage the husband and his lawyer throw around (and good luck with the judge admitting any), there is no way an American jury can hear the word “beheaded” and let this guy off.

  • lorac

    I agree….  men must start teaching each other that it’s wrong to hurt women.  They need to not laugh at jokes which objectify women, or jokes which involve even pretend talk of being superior, putting women in their place, girlfriend “needs a good slapping”, etc.  Without decent men shaming the men who think this is funny or even a viable alternative, women’s work in this area won’t be enough – we’ll only be mopping up afterwards.

    Also – in regards to people always wanting to equate the small number of women who hit men to the large number of men who hit women – besides having more physical strength and able to do greater damage, men also have more power in the world, “good old boy networks” (such as those who know people in the police, D.A.s office, local clergy) to help them cover up or in some way help them portray the woman as “trouble”.

  • lorac

    You know that saying “your rights stop right where they infringe on my rights”?  (or something like that)

    They need a new one:  Your religious quirks stop where they infringe upon the civil rights of our women, our country, and our national identity.  Deal with it or move back home.

    I’m so proud of France, claiming that burqas are against their national identity and cultural treatment of women in France.

    I was thinking today that if a whole bunch of Mexicans and Somalis and let’s say also Hawaiians all started moving, many of them illegally, into Darfur, can you imagine the societal upheaval?  Insisting that their traditions must be followed, even if they conflict with those of the Darfurians.  I dare say it would be a blood bath eventually.  We wouldn’t agree with this overamped rate of immigration into a culturally different place. 

    But when it happens here or in the UK, we’re all supposed to accept that this means “diversity”.  But when one foreign culture is about to be 1/2 of our national numbers, that’s NOT diversity. That is a major change forced upon our own culture by another culture, and our culture will change forever.   Diversity should mean you have a smattering of various ethnicities around the country – not an overwhelming amount, and not from one place.  It would be so cool to find some French, or German, or Italian, or New Zealand populations around here – THAT would be diversity!

    Other countries are allowed to maintain the basic culture of their ountry (with controlled immigration, and from various countries, not like these people hopping over our Mexican border from ONE country), then why don’t we have the same right to maintain our own culture and not have it taken over by too, too many people from one or two places? 

    If people want to lose the American culture, then they should start getting foreigners to start overpopulating other countries, and see how that goes over.  America is not weird or different in wanting to maintain the American culture.  Our culture is always changing, but it’s a little here, a little there – this other way of overpopulation and another culture/language being forced into our culture is just leading to trouble….

  • ~~JustMe~~

    O/T
    Women, girls rape victims in Haiti quake aftermathhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_earthquake

  • lorac

    I sentenced you to life, married to her

    Sexism is everywhere.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cb_haiti_earthquake

    Women, girls rape victims in Haiti quake aftermath

  • lorac

    Any chance you could type in a larger font?  A little hard to read…. thx

  • lorac

    And they usually have children which they must take with them.  Causes more complications in the plan to escape.  Or often the man has kept control of the finances, and she has no money to travel away.  In addition, a huge commonality of DV men is to isolate “their woman” – gets her to cut her ties with friends, family – everything to keep her only dependent on him, and less able to leave.  She is absolutely not allowed to leave the DV man – that why when she tries, after years of battering, he finally kills her – because she MUST NOT leave.  And dead, she doesn’t.

  • AnnieCarmel

    Agreed.  I believe the quota system was aimed at assimilation of immigrants so that we weren’t overwhelmed by any one culture.  The melting pot only works if we have measured cultural mixes, and new immigrants devote themselves to the language and law of the land as their priority.  Nothing says they have to give up their culture, language or memories…but to become American should be the reason they come here.

    Right now we have a multitude of teachers being laid off and schools failing even the basics…the common thread of all these schools in our county is that they do not put English first; they follow LaRaza and LULAC teaching them in Spanish and keeping their cultural identity as most important.  Of course they fail.  They have no skills for stepping outside the Mexican culture or gangs.  The rest of our county is doing just fine, thank you very much.  My daughter works at one of the top rated schools in the state; patental involvement is high and they all speak English even if it wasn’t their first language.

  • AnnieCarmel

    And btw, one of these Mexican fathers in one of the above sections of Monterey County recently “sold” his underage daughter to a neighbor for $$, food and booze.  When the “buyer” didn’t make good on the payment, the father called the police to report him!  The defense was given that he shouldn’t be charged with pandering his daughter because it was acceptable in his former home of Mexico.  Of course, that’s total BS.  Papa may be ignorant but he does know the law.  By the time the sale was discovered, the 15 y/o girl had been living with the “neighbor” for several months.  What do you want to bet there was an anchor baby in the mix by then?

  • AbigailAdams

    That’s quite a stretch.  Just what kind of post-modern, relativistic code are you trying to pitch?  Please just fly away, sparrow.  You’re comments belie some weirdass problems in your thinking. 

  • lorac

    since you asked  :)

    Affects is correct.  “effects” almost always refers to end product / results, while “affects” is more action oriented.  An English teacher (Diana!) would be able to come up with the proper terms for the distinction!

    His abusive behavior affected her self-esteem.
    Her black eyes were the effect of his punching at her head.

  • lorac

    Forgot to mention – there is an exception when “effects” is more action oriented, rather than referring to results, but it always confuses me, so I can’t explain it to you :(

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Thanks lorac I went looked it up after I added the piece but you’re always do a good job of explaining!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Thanks lorac I went looked it up after I added the piece but you always have a great way of explaining things!

  • PA Caucasian

    I’m not sure which patriarchal religions you are referencing, besides the obvious.

    I’m Roman Catholic. Our tradition reveres Christ’s mother, we have a list of female saints that go back to the time of the Lord. These women were instrumental in the founding of the faith, and later, in its propagation.

    Some Catholic women became reformers within a corrupt system, St. Catharine of Siena and St. Teresa of Avila come to mind. These women had no qualms about confronting the Pope himself.

    Add to them the female saints who founded religious orders that minister to the poor and disenfranchised. Mother Cabrini, St. Katharine Drexel – Philadelphia’s own. Katharine used her considerable wealth to establish schools for minority children, at a time when society didn’t give minorities were at best – ignored.

    Today’s orders of religious women continue the tradition of being living examples of Christ’s gospel. They are a force within the church and essential to the continuation of the faith. They are appreciated and respected by Catholics everywhere – of both sexes.

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Thanks Rev. Amy.

    Lorac, you are so right about the big difference between women who abuse men (as opposed to men who abuse women) is the power men have in the world at their disposal.

    I don’t know one guy who would trade the disparity women have in society from the day they are born, yet, they expect us (the inferior ones) to be able to make do with the unlevel playing field that always favors them!

    I understand that there’s a prayer in the Jewish faith that exclaims “thank God I was not born a woman!!”

    Men use religion to give them power too. The irony that they totally dismiss and never mention is that Jesus was the first feminist, who respected women and said that they were equal to men in God’s eyes. He also called on women to be his ministers too. Doesn’t appear to me that Jesus thought women were chattel or inferior in any way.

    Men must stop using religion as an excuse to abuse power through some illusion that it has been ordained by God that they are “entitled”. Based on the present state of the world and how men have used their power to plunge it into the survival of the greediest and most powerful, I doubt very seriously either God or Jesus would approve!

  • My other site

    Pardon my natiivism, or racism, but I believe this is the result of importing tons of third world cultures into a basically western culture.  People come here for money; they are not interested in acculturating.  They bring their barbaric cultures with them and Congress forces us to tolerate it.

  • Kathleen Wynne

    PA,

    Unfortunately, the Catholic religion doesn’t give enough recognition to the work these women are doing. 

    I have felt in many churches, not just the Catholic, that women have followed Christ’s teachings closer than the priests or ministers have! (Hence Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker and others, plus the growing number of pedophile priests being reported).  Yet, women are still viewed as not worthy of becoming priests if they feel the calling.  Hats off to the Episcopalians and other churches for allowing women into the pulpit!

    The patriarchy within the Catholic church is still extremely biased towards women and I find that appalling in the 21st century, based on all the evidence that this practice should be stopped for the good of the church and society in general.

    The recent reports about the rampant pedophilia in Ireland and elsewhere are indicative of the problems that always evolve from an all male run church.  Same thing holds true for governments as well.

    It does appear that the patriarchy would rather destroy the church and their governments, than have a woman in charge of them!  This is how men define being “superior?”

  • guest

    Whether or not sparrow is serious, his ideas are.  I had a friend whose wife nearly beat him to death with a baseball bat, yet because he is a man he was too ashamed to go to the police.  So domestic violence is uncalled for, PERIOD.  

  • guest

    Olivia1998: The Muslim community is changing our laws? Like  the Evangelicals haven’t? You’re a racist. Have a nice day.  

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Holy smokes – for real???  This is beyond disgusting.

    I am just sick and tired of women and girls being treated like garbage.  We must stop this outrage now! Sec. Clinton needs to speak out abt what is happening here at home…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thank heavens you were able to get away, JustMe.  And thank you for sharing your experience with us, too.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thanks, Cindy – I appreciate that!!  :)

  • buzzlatte

    You too, Guest.  Have a nice day being an idiot.  ”Challenging” does not equal “changing”.  But then you were too full of your own vile venomous stupidity to notice.

  • Diana L. C.

    I remember that the first time I, a Protestant, first felt women had a real place in the Christian church was as a student of Christian mystics–in a voluntary study group.  Before, I had to always view the Christ as in a sense androgynous so I could see myself in him.  But ready these mystics, especially the women, made me see the religion in a much more welcoming light for woment–especially Julian of Norwich.  Also just reading Simone Weil’s (always a controversy over whether she, a Jewess, did convert to Christianity before she died) reflections on Christ could make me see women in the religion.

    There’s an especially good history written by Leonard Schlain entitled The Alphabet versus the Goddess.  In it, Schlain traces how he thinks the cultures and societies in history change as they move from a more male-dominated to a more female friendly state.

  • Diana L. C.

    lorac and Just Me, I came back to these this morning.  So, maybe youn’t won’t see this.  “Effects” is USUALLY a noun, one that can have a noun determiner before it and it usually means something like “result”  “The effects of the Obama administration were catastrophic” 

    You can use “effect” as a transitive verb with a definite direct object, showing a causal effect.  “The meteor’s impact on the earth effected a major change in the atmosphere.”  “The bill effected a dramatic change in our tax rates.”

    “Affect” usually means “to influence.”  ”Her kindness affected me so much that I finally realized the importance of seeing things from another’s perspective.  It can also be used in these types of consturction:  ”His affect was one of total self-absorption.  She walked into the room with a totally vain affection.”

    The difference between these two are, perhaps, the hardest to grasp of the many “usage” pairs that cause problems in English.  Since I had to wrestle with it while grading thousands of papers, first making sure I looked it up each time as a new teacher, I now understand them.  But at least you both know to question.

    Another to cause problems is always principle/principal or capital/capitol  and on and on. 

  • PA Caucasian

    The Catholic Church has experienced its share of crises over its 2000 year history. Reformers grew up within its ranks, St. Francis of Assisi is one notable example. These reformers bucked the system and the hierarchy at the time to create religious orders and institutions that were faithful to Christ’s teachings.

    Women are not currently eligible to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, which confers priesthood. However, if there is a priest unable to attend at a Mass. I have seen women distribute communion at a communion service, this is done within the auspices of Church authority. These services are not conducted as a full-fledged liturgical mass however the same benefits of receiving Eucharist obtain.

    I don’t know where you get the idea that the Catholic religion doesn’t give recognition to the work that its female soldiers do. Have you ever watched EWTN? That global communications empire was built by one humble nun, Mother Angelica. Any Catholic church I’ve attended has stained glass windows and other types of iconography honoring its great women. Mother Teresa has achieved worldwide recognition due to her ministry, the church never made any attempt to keep her light hidden under a basket.

    Any observant Catholic who is familiar with the operations of local parishes knows that there is usually a cohort of women who keep the wheels running, administratively and  organizationally. And these women do their jobs for better or worse. It does not stand to reason that if there were a more visible female presence in the Vatican that there would necessarily be fewer scandals or problems. Corruption is a human problem, it is not limited to one sex.

    Whatever the patriarchy’s intentions are re: destroying the Catholic church, they only have to remember Christ’s own words to St. Peter:

    Upon this rock I will build my Church and the powers of hell will not prevail against it.

  • Diana L. C.

    And I should always check spelling.  That should have been “affectation.”

  • mary2

    Thanks Rev Amy RR for posting this.  These manipulative jerks should be beheaded. It’s probably the only way to show these barbarians of ALL religions and backgrounds that they cannot torture, emotionally or physically, their “intimates”!

    Also, in the new Canadian Citizenship manual, there’s a section where the new citizens are told that “there’s no tolerance for cultural practices promoting violence against women”

    This is a pandemic, though, and affects all males (1% only are female abusers).  Why call it “Domestic” violence instead of male violence, though. 

    Facing up to fact that it is MEN who are the predators/torturers and women and girls their prey, is the first step to societal rehabilitation.  We produce these monsters.  But why and who gives them their “right” to abuse girls and women?  Who made them manipulative and violent?  Their mothers? Society and its conditioning?

    There should be research on this.  And quickly!

    More women have been killed by husbands and boyfriends in the last 25 years than all soldiers who died in Vietnam and Iraq as well as police officers killed in the line of duty.

    This is a serious matter. Not enough research and not sufficient punishment.  The criminal code should be amended to reflect societal repulsion.

    And sentencing should be stiffer. But rehabilitation should start at birth and public shcools and parents should start watching out for early signs of male violence/abusive/bullying behaviour.  No easy answers.  But the barbarians don’t belong on our streets, or in our homes! Enough.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Thanks Diana great explanation! :-D

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Yes thank you Amy, you know I was in my early 20′s and now it’s like a distant memory until something like you have covered here is raised.
     
    The last straw was watching my dad suffer (being I was his blue eyed baby) I knew then I had to do something. I was crafty looking back, playing along, and carried on as if everything was normal. I set up a job interview miles, went for the interview and got the job the same day. When I got back it was late and strangely he was working out of town (never happened normally) so my father and I packed a few things and I left, walking out the door I left the wedding ring on a table by the telephone and never looked back!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Yes thank you Amy, you know I was in my early 20′s and now it’s like a distant memory until something like you have covered here is raised.
     
    The last straw was watching my dad suffer (being I was his blue eyed baby) I knew then I had to do something. I was crafty looking back, playing along, and carried on as if everything was normal. I set up a job interview miles away, went for the interview and got the job the same day. When I got back it was late and strangely he was working out of town (never happened normally) so my father and I packed a few things and I left, walking out the door I left the wedding ring on a table by the telephone and never looked back!

  • Kathleen Wynne

    PA,

    It is so tragic that so many men who think of themselves as “Christians” don’t actually follow the teaching of Jesus at all, but are instead followers of Paul of Tarsus, a patron saint of male chauvinism if there ever was one, whose teaching has proven to be a treasure-trove of materials for males who seem to have such a low esteem for themselves that the only way they know to feel good about themselves is to promote disdain for half of the human race.

     When, on the other hand, people have been nourished on the teachings and example of Jesus, they are likely to have a much more favorable view of women, and of others who they constantly fight to “keep in their place”.

    Jesus did not view women in the way they are viewed by male religious leaders of his time and I’m sure of this time as well.

    One of the first things noticed in the biographies about Jesus’ attitude toward women is that he taught them both the meaning of the Scriptures and religious truths in general. When it is recalled that in Judaism it was considered improper, and even “obscene,” to teach women the Scriptures, this action of Jesus was an extraordinary, deliberate decision to break with a custom invidious to women. Moreover, women became disciples and followers of Jesus. (Luke 8:1ff) The significance of this phenomenon of women following Jesus about, learning from and ministering to him, can be properly appreciated only when it is recalled that not only were women not to read or study the Scriptures, but in the more observant settings they were not even to leave their household, whether as a daughter, wife, or member of a harem.
    Within this context of women being disciples and ministers, Jesus quite deliberately broke another custom disadvantageous to women. According to the recorded eyewitness accounts Jesus’ first appearance after his resurrection to any of his followers was to a woman (or women), who was then commissioned by him to bear witness of the risen Jesus to his disciples. According to Judaic law, women were not allowed to bear legal witness. Clearly this was a dramatic linking of a very definite rejection of the second-class status of women with a central element of the life of Jesus, the resurrection.
    One of the first things noticed in the biographies about Jesus’ attitude toward women is that he taught them both the meaning of the Scriptures and religious truths in general. When it is recalled that in Judaism it was considered improper, and even “obscene,” to teach women the Scriptures, this action of Jesus was an extraordinary, deliberate decision to break with a custom invidious to women. Moreover, women became disciples and followers of Jesus. (Luke 8:1ff) The significance of this phenomenon of women following Jesus about, learning from and ministering to him, can be properly appreciated only when it is recalled that not only were women not to read or study the Scriptures, but in the more observant settings they were not even to leave their household, whether as a daughter, wife, or member of a harem.

    Within this context of women being disciples and ministers, Jesus quite deliberately broke another custom disadvantageous to women. According to the recorded eyewitness accounts Jesus’ first appearance after his resurrection to any of his followers was to a woman (or women), who was then commissioned by him to bear witness of the risen Jesus to his disciples. According to Judaic law, women were not allowed to bear legal witness. Clearly this was a dramatic linking of a very definite rejection of the second-class status of women with a central element of the life of Jesus, the resurrection.

    If men refuse to recognize that Jesus was trying to teach them that women were not inferior, but equals to men in the eyes of God, this only confirms that men are not interested in following the teachings of Jesus (santioned by God), but of using religion for their own selfish and self-serving reasons, then I’m not obliged to accept the teaching of man on earth.

    The way I see it, if, as a woman, Jesus taught that women are good enough to walk beside him and to do his ministry, then that’s good enough for me.  Why isn’t it good enough for men?

  • Diana L. C.

    I read this in a story this morning.  My heart weeps for the women of Haiti.

  • AbigailAdams

    Yes, Guest, domestic violence of all stripes is terrible.  Yet, it seems that whenever a story like this, in which the woman is the clear victim, there is no shortage of those who bring up men being beaten or victimized by women.  No one is saying it doesn’t happen.  We all know that it does.  However, if the stats related to violence and homocide against women were against any other group of people (and other group), there would be wall-to-wall coverage of it on a constant basis and there would be a raft of “hate law” legislation supported by the biggest stars in D.C.  And speaking of stars:  There would be a 3-day phone bank effort ala “liveaid”, Willy Nelson and Springsteen would write hit songs about it, Oprah would form a foundation and dedicate her new womens’ shelter, Pitt and Jolie would adopt a baby girl, “Save the Whales” would pledge a month’s worth of donations to provide “leaving” women with personal bodyguards and we would have a “Stop the Abuse of Women” month.

    Look up the stats.  Clinton spoke about this at the U.N. this month.  In addition to the deaths we know about, according to those who study these sorts of things, there are an estimated 1MM women and girls who are unaccounted in the world based on normative gender stats.  Clinton mentioned the cover of a magazine in which the banner story was “gendercide.”

  • PA Caucasian

    All the examples of notable Catholic women whom I’ve referenced gained their prominence precisely because of their work as Christ’s ministers on earth. If you’re making the case that they haven’t walked beside Him and “done his ministry”, their very biographies would refute your assertion.

    Catholic women don’t get hung up on the prohibition from Holy Orders partly because of the dynamic contributions that women have made to our tradition, and the role models they represent to Catholic men and women alike.

    The desire to attain the same status as men within the church can be construed as a materialistic and ego-driven ambition, which is contrary to two values that Christ espoused – those of obedience and humility. And of course, materialism and ego are not the province of divinity but of another source entirely.

    It’s clear that you have a problem with the Catholic Church, and that’s fine, trust me you’re not alone. My point in bringing any of this to light is that a religious institution whose female members have made significant contributions in the public sphere cannot be dismissed as a patriarchal entity that keeps women in its place.

    There are Christian denominations that welcome women as ordained ministers, individuals who are fixated on this one issue would most likely feel more comfortable being members of those faith communities.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    I am sorry but religion does not surround women in safety some men hide behind their religion and commit these despicable acts towards women!
     
    It does not matter if you have Christian, Muslim, Catholic or the Virgin Mary stamped on your head, if a man is inclined to abuse his wife, girlfriend or woman he lives with don’t matter what church pew one sits in at the weekend!
     
    Abuse is abuse it needs to stop.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    This is a horrific act on a defenseless woman do they have the death penalty in Buffalo NY?

  • Kathleen Wynne

    PA,

    My point was simple.  In the time of Jesus, he broke religious tradition by teaching women and having them minister for him, just like the disiples.

    I’m a catholic woman, duh!  you are obviously caught up in the dogma that has for 2000 years given men high positions in the church, while women either cleaned up the rectory and served the priests, or they quietly went about missionary work. 

    Jesus did not view women the same way as the Catholic hierachy does and I was critical of their refusal to follow his example. 

  • Kathleen Wynne

    JustMe,

    I agree with you.  However, the environment that gives rise to male abuse of women comes from the church’s teachings that women are inferior.  Therein likes the core problem that somehow translates to men that they are entitled to whatever they want to women without being held accountable.

    Hillary’s speech at this year’s International Women’s Conference stated as much.  Until women are viewed in society as equal to men, real progress cannot be made that increase and maintain the quality of our lives.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    I understand what your saying Mary. However we must not put all men into the same mold, not ALL men take the same view.
    Violence is violence abuse is abuse no matter how you look at it and needs to STOP!
    Going back over what is in the bible will not make it any easier to go forward and rectify today’s situations. We need to work on it from a different direction not from what has happened in the past or how women are viewed in a religious setting!

  • ~~JustMe~~

     
    I understand what your saying Mary. However we must not put all men into the same mold, not ALL men take the same view.  
    Violence is violence abuse is abuse no matter how you look at it and needs to STOP!  
    Going back over what is in the bible will not make it any easier to go forward and rectify today’s situations. We need to work on it from a different direction not from what has happened in the past or how women are viewed in a religious setting! The church needs to be thrown out of the equation; women need to get out of this inferior meme and come together to make it safer for each other!  (Easier said than done as we know)

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Excellent comment, Diana.  And great book you referenced, too.

    So much of what has been used against women in the Judeo-Christian traditions has been the result of mis-translations, and not taking into account the culture, history, and sociology of the times in which the books were written or translated. 

    For instance, since the Christian Scriptures often use the term “man,”  many religious traditions said that it was specific, so women could not be in leadership positions, etc., etc.  Instead, it was a istranslation of Greek terms that were NEUTRAL. 

    It was the sexism/misogyny of the time the translations were done, ike with the “Deaconess” Phoebe – the word used for her was the SAME word as used to describe male ministers, but the meaning was lessened for her (Romans 16).

    I could go on, but I’ll spare you.  My point is, right there with ya!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Kathleen, preach it, sister!  You are on fire – love it!!

  • Diana L. C.

    And Charlie Sheen would be blackballed.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I saw this, too – just horrible – HORRIBLE.

    What are our military personnel who are in place in Haiti doing to help these women?? Seriously – what are they doing?  Surely, there must be SOMETHING they can do, right??

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Thanks Reverend!  The spirit moved me!!!  Ooops, can that be possible, since I’m a mere woman?  I’m not worthy, I’m not worthy…

  • Mr. Natural

    In the argot of the 60′s: One person’s BARBARISM is another person’s OLD TIME RELIGION.

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