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Dennis Kucinich to Hold Press Conference Wednesday Morning

I’m sure you all saw the TV reports of Dennis Kucinich departing Air Force One with President Obama when Obama visited Kucinich’s Ohio district yesterday.

To date, Kucinich has opposed Obamacare because he felt it didn’t go far enough in offering health care to enough Americans. Kucinich favors “Medicare for All.” The word is that, on Air Force One, Obama told Kucinich that it is vital to vote for Obamacare because he should view it as an opening, not the be-all-end-all, in legislation. (Conservatives have certainly warned everyone that Obama and his supporters view this health care bill as a first step in putting all health care under the control of the federal government.)

Dennis Kucinich is easy. He got to feel important, riding Air Force One into his home district. If Dennis Kucinich caves, more will come. For the past few days, I’ve thought Obama couldn’t get the votes, but now I’m wondering if he just may make it, at least if it’s that easy to impress these representatives.

No one knows what Kucinich will say tomorrow morning at his press conference.

Kucinich’s press release states that he “will announce his vote on health care reform” — but my gut reaction to the news is that Kucinich is announcing that his “no” is now a “yes” and he may even offer the view that Obamacare will open the door to more government offerings in health care, including a public option or, in the future, Medicare For All. Besides his love for being in the spotlight, I can’t imagine why Kucinich would hold a press conference to announce his vote unless he were going to change his position.

Lawrence O’Donnell, who’s subbing on Keith Olbermann’s MSNBC show (Olbermann’s father died), noted tonight that Kucinich recently announced that he was a firm “no” on Obamacare. However, Countdown guest Howard Fineman of Newsweek said he has sources who state that Kucinich will come out in support of Obamacare. Further, Fineman believes, if Kucinich announces his support for Obamacare, that it will provide “a heat shield” for Obama, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others who’ve been battling with the far left who believe Obamacare is the wrong way to go about health care reform and are “dead set in favor of a public option.”

Fineman predicts that Kucinich will adopt Obama’s arguments to him on Air Force One: That Obamacare is a “first step,” and will begin much as other entitlements like Social Security began, as a step to more offerings, such as a public option.

O’Donnell’s next guest, Ezra Klein, concurred with O’Donnell that, to date, Nancy Pelosi’s “yes column” is around 200, with 216 needed to pass the bill. However, Klein pointed out, this is the time when representatives will lie to leadership in the hopes that they can get more goodies in order to gain their votes, which means that — given the right incentives — their votes can be won over.

Of course, all of this fretting about votes will be for naught if the House adopts the Louise Slaughter strategy of using the “deem and pass” rule that allows the House to provide passage of the Senate bill without actually having to vote on the bill. (Rep. Slaughter is the chair of the Rules Committee, and came up with the idea to use the “deem and pass” method to give House members an escape route from having to vote for the bill.) From the L.A. TImes story, “Democrats may use shortcut to pass healthcare overhaul“:

In the face of Republican attacks Tuesday, leading Democrats defended a controversial endgame maneuver that would allow them to pass the Senate version of a healthcare overhaul without taking a direct vote on the legislation’s most divisive provisions.

The stratagem, known in the arcane language of Congress as a “self-executing” rule or “deem and pass,” would allow House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) to skirt a roll-call vote, speeding passage of the bill and helping limit attacks on Democrats facing tough competition in an election year. …

This stinks to the high heavens. No momentous legislation should be rammed through via arcane rules, particularly since it is backed solely by one party, with not a single Republican in either the House or Senate voting for the bill, and affects such a large percentage of the U.S. economy (some say as much as 1/6th of the economy).

However, if Obama can persuade enough House members — as he’s apparently done by stroking Kucinich’s ego — he may not need the House to use trickery to avoid a vote.

Then there’s that, as other commentators today have noted, the American people may soon forget HOW the bill was passed. Further, once the bill is passed and the citizenry comes to view it as an entitlement, much like Social Security and Medicare, it will never be repealed, let alone made leaner.

It’s a long time from now until November. If the House and Senate manage to ram this bill through via parliamentary trickery, will Americans remember that come November when they’re voting for their representatives and senators? Or will they already be on the receiving end of some of the bill’s offerings?

I’m stunned by some of the promises that Obama and his minions are making. For example, they are claiming that the infamous “doughnut hole” in Medicare’s Plan D prescription insurance will be eliminated. From Kaiser Health News:

The amount seniors must pay in the coverage gap is projected to increase to $5,755 by 2018. In 2007, an estimated 3.4 million Part D enrollees hit the coverage gap. The Democrats’ health care legislation now being debated in Congress would gradually close the doughnut hole. The study said that previous research showed that some enrollees who reach the coverage gap sometimes skip needed medications when faced with the full cost.

Here’s more from the Money Watch story, “High Prescription Drug Costs Deliver Rude Awakening for Retirees“:

It’s a different story once you retire, reach age 65, and are covered by Medicare. Under standard Medicare Part D benefits covering prescription drugs, your annual out-of-pocket costs could easily be $1,000, $2,000 or more. And this doesn’t include the monthly premiums for Medicare Part D benefits, which can add another $300 to $500 per year. [Table of coverage gaps.]

For instance, suppose your prescription drugs have a total cost of $3,000. You’ve fallen into Medicare’s dreaded “donut hole” where you pay 100 percent of the cost of drugs in that range of total drug costs. Applying the above rules, your annual out-of-pocket expenses would be $1,110 (that’s $940 on the first $2,830 of your costs, plus 100 percent of the amount over that, or $170 in this case). If these are lifetime maintenance drugs, you’ll end up paying tens of thousands of dollars over your lifetime. …

Well, the Obamacare advocates’ claims that they’ll eliminate these very expensive doughnut holes are just not true. U.S. Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius “emphasized the legislation’s efforts to close Medicare’s prescription drug “doughnut hole” and to “lower drug costs overall.”

Secretary Sebelius sidestepped the token improvements to closing the doughnut hole. I looked up what Obamacare will actually give seniors who hit the doughnut hole during the coming year. They will be eligible to get a check for $250. That’s it. $250 total. Which barely begins to cover the monthly costs for seniors whose prescription drugs cost hundreds, even thousands, per month. From “Hinchey Highlights Immediate Benefits of Heath Care Reform” (Hinchey is Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY)):

Seniors who fall into the Medicare prescription drug coverage gap known as the “donut hole” will immediately have access to a $250 rebate, and preventative services and immunizations under Medicare will no longer require a co-payment.

First, that this is a rebate means that seniors will first have to purchase the drugs at full price, and then apply for reimbursement. Secondly, $250 scarcely begins to cover the monthly costs of most prescription drugs.

If Obamacare passes, and other promises currently being made turn out to be exaggerations — and the realization that many benefits won’t go into effect for several years — the American people will be even angrier.

Coda: Well, Americans will be angry if they’re tuned in. Sometimes I wonder. I have neighbors to whom I’ve spoken about the problems with Obamacare.

One day, when I mentioned Harry Reid, I was asked, “Who is he?” I fear that such non-involvement in the news of the day is endemic throughout this country. Such people will happily accept whatever government assistance comes their way, without ever questioning what it is doing to the economy or any awareness that there were better bi-partisan plans that would have provided far more substantive improvements. I digress.

But I wonder if most Americans are either oblivious to the rules trickery involved in ramming this bill through, or will simply forget as time passes. They’ll certainly not be aware of Dennis Kucinich’s press conference tomorrow, or what it symbolizes. Only we political junkies will be tuned in.

And maybe, come November, only we political junkies will remember the incessant daily news about the troubles Obama, Pelosi and Reid faced in getting their Democratic members to vote yes.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Kucinich couldn’t persuade a fly off a toilet seat. I doubt his yes will persuade any fence leaners.

    If that’s the best Obama can offer, he’s in trouble.

  • lorac

    …will Americans remember that come November when they’re voting for their representatives and senators? Or will they already be on the receiving end of some of the bill’s offerings?

    Perhaps the $250 for the donut hole will be available, but if so, it’s the exception – they’re saying no one will see effects for 4 years.  That’s the only way they could get the CBO number down – charge us for ten years for 6 years of service….

  • confused American

    Boy that was one Cheap Vote —- All they had to do was give him a trip in Air Force One….
    I don’t think anyone will forget how cheaply he betrayed his constituents.

  • Patience

    I agree, it sounds like he’s caving.  Why else give a presser if he’s standing firm?  Who knows, maybe Democratic leadership has a file on him that contains some dirt, ala Rep. Massa.

  • Onofre’s arm

    What’s worse is, after the ten years the numbers rapidly whiplash into the red.

    Of course, this bill and all of the hype surrounding it has never been about the general welfare of the average American, it’s always been about reducing the average American down to a totally dependent semi-slave to the type of progressive demigods like Obama, who believe they are so far superior to most of us, that they’re compelled to take the reigns of power guiding all of our lives. They don’t want to be public servants, they want the public to serve them, and to worship them for their brilliance. 

  • sowsear

    I saw earlier that Howard Fineman reported that Kucinich will announce tomorrow that he’s now Yes.

  • sowsear

    We have Medicare and better than average coverage otherwise, including low deductibles on prescriptions. Yet, last year our out of pocket expenses were close to $9000.   Most of the costs were for my husband as I rarely go to the Dr. and take no regualr prescription medications.
    Some people are going to be surprised if they think that it’s going to be better with Obamacare.

  • sowsear

    We have Medicare and better than average coverage otherwise, including low deductibles on prescriptions. Yet, last year our out of pocket expenses were close to $9000.   Most of the costs were for my husband as I rarely go to the Dr. and take no regular prescription medications. 
    Some people are going to be surprised if they think that it’s going to be better with Obamacare.

  • Docelder

    Yes, Obama is stealing from Medicare to pay for his urban young people to have free health care. That urban army needs to be healthy I suppose. For what? is the question. Maybe having old people die already is the immediate goal. Not because of the age, but because of their knowledge of history and for their belief systems. That generation was never indoctrinated, lied to yes, but indoctrinated, no. That generation will never buy into socialistic Utopia or big rock candy mountain.

  • AbigailAdams

    What’s the word on bo granting blanket amnesty to all illegals to make up for the lost voters over this bill? That would be an estimated 12MM new voters before the 2010 elections.  All, apparently, beholden to the guy.

  • AnnieCarmel

    Docelder, I agree.  I have thought all along that they have a plan to phase us out ASAP. I am fortunate in that my RX bill only comes to around $450/per year.  But who knows what may come down the road?  My Medicare plus the supplemental insurance, which costs more than Medicare and the Part D for prescriptions, stretches me already…premiums were going up about 5% each year; this year already up 10% more.

    I never doubted that little man Kucinich would cave.  He’s a leftie and has a far left administration for goodness sake.  Not much to have to promise there.  Wonder what else he’s getting other than the ride?

  • Docelder

    BHO could promise to prosecute Bush and Cheney and Kucinich’s people would wee-wee themselves over that. Plus it would make a great distraction while shredding the constitution. But, I think a major distraction is coming right about the time of this bill. It is this administration’s M.O. Thety always have a convenient crisis when they need it. Everything is shrouded in the uncertainty of “change” to begin with and then they get those lucky crises that just pile it on further. They are just lucky that way.

  • Docelder

    There will be more than 12MM of them. Once it passes, they will come out of the woodwork. There might be 3x that many. Especially sonce there is no way to document who was already here. They will be flooding in and saying they have always been here. Napolitano doesn’t believe in national security at the border, because she doesn’t believe in borders. Convenient.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Scary just damn scary!

  • FranSC

    If this dog of a bill passes with all their lies and then the final blow of passing it without voting for it, I am very afraid this will give b0 the success that will salvage his presidency.  That is surely what he and the leadership are counting on – the Alinsky thing….”It doesn’t matter how you win, you just have to win.  No one will remember how you won, just that you did…”

    It will be sickening to see all their celebrations and hyperbole.  The only hope is that in this day and age of instant communication, people are paying attention – more than they ever have.   

  • elaine

    “The High Cost of Growing Older” by Emily Brandon, U.S. News & World Report  March 8, 2010

    http://www.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/retirement/article/2010/03/08/the-high-cost-of-growing-older

  • AnnieCarmel

    Yes, and the cartels are already challenging the borders with their killings and violence…Mexican Army helicopter straying into our airspace last week…scaring people to death down there…testing, testing.  What?  No consequences?  Well then, we’ll come in a little farther next time.

  • jbjd

    Based on her prior pronouncements on the subject, I cannot imagine that HRC supports this sinister health insurance legislation.  What cost/benefit analysis allows her to rationalize her silence?  This acquiescence is my ‘tipping point.’  “COUNTRY” before “CLUB.” 

  • FrenchNail

    It does not matter if the American People at large remember or not how this bill was passed. Elections are won on a few percent anyway. So it only matters for a few to be aware and voting accordingly. 

    Anyway this bill which will be jam down our throats one way or the other, it heading straight to the courts. Watch out for the next battle over the replacement of the next supreme to retire. The leverage is in the elections of Rep governors who campaigned on amendment 10 provisions and of State houses who did the same.

    Wouldn’t it be poetic justice if the “favors” obtained by Kerry, Landrieu and others turned out to be the demise of that bill on constitutional grounds. By that time, the American People would have already received their new taxes bills and that is going to be pretty painful.

  • karen for Clinton

    Hey look, they want to avoid a roll call – AGAIN.  The same folks who did this to Hillary want to use their shifty maneuvers again.  Why not, it worked out so well the first time.  Votes are old fashioned.

    We needed a president but all we got was a lousy insurance salesman.

  • arabella trefoil

    Don’t give up. Keep writing, calling and faxing.

    Who is really feeling defeated here? No, not you and not me. Axelrod, Rahm, and Obama are. They are the ones who should be scared, not us.

    This bill is unpopular. This bill is bad for America.

    Don’t fall for the hoopla. We can kill this thing and we will.

    Americans want health care reform, but this bill is NOT health care reform.

    DO NOT get discouraged!

  • tango

    I am just sickened. I believe America needs health care reform but not this bill and I can see the future. This shit will be rammed down our throats as “what we need”, and we will all suffer via higher costs (one way or another), reduced coverage and care. Sorry old folks and handicapped people. When the government becomes desperate to save money, you can bet you’re not getting that hip replacement surgery or therapy for your autistic child. No, money must only be spent on those who contribute to society via work. Those who earn the government some money, verses costing them money.

    Estimates are that income taxes will have to ultimately be 50-60% (and that includes texing the middle class who will be hit hardest of all)  plus implementing a nationl VAT to earn money needed to address current shortfalls in Social Security and Medicare.  Add on some pessimistic economists who feel unemployment could stay high single digits for the next 10 years which means God knows how much more money needed from those lucky enough to still have a job to fund Section 8 housing, TANF, food stamps and unemployment benefits. 

    Maybe when we are all paying 50% federal income tax, a national sales tax and then state and local taxes on top of it all so we ultimately only get to keep 20-25% of our paycheck, the government will be happy.  At that point, they’ll probably decide we shouldn’t earn a paycheck at all but work for the good of all and the government will give us housing, vouchers for items like food, clothing, etc as payment for our labor.  Makes it so much easier don’t you think?   Welcome to Russia folks.

  • Breeze

    “Clinton: Hillary Will Be ‘Happiest Person in America’ if Health Care Passes

    March 16, 2010, 4:30 p.m.
    By Jennifer Bendery
    Roll Call Staff
    ——————————————————————————–

    Former President Bill Clinton may have visited with Senate Democrats on Tuesday to discuss climate change, but he left the meeting talking effusively about the need to pass health care reform.

    Moments after leaving the Democrats’ weekly luncheon, where he was invited by Sen. John Kerry (Mass.) to talk about climate change legislation, Clinton emphasized the need to move health care reform past the finish line in the coming days. He said nobody will be celebrating the bill’s passage more than the Clintons — not President Barack Obama, not White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel — in part because his wife, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, unsuccessfully took on the issue on during his presidency.

    “Maybe Hillary will be the happiest person in America. I’ll be the second happiest person. Even more than President Obama, even more than Rahm, even more than all the people that have been laboring over this forever. I just want it to pass and I think it will,” Clinton told reporters.

    Clinton said the final bill “doesn’t have to be perfect” since lawmakers will have to keep working on the issue for years to come. He also cited a January study by Harvard and University of Southern California economists that found “any version of these bills we’re batting around” will lead to as many as 400,000 jobs per year.”

  • Freedom Fighter

    Health care premiums will drop by 3,000% once health care reform is pased. Public run health care is the ultimate goal, but reducing health care premiums by 3,000% is a good start. It’s good for hard working American families who either can’t afford or don’t have health care right now.

    http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/03/transcript_of_president_obamas.html

  • kenoshamarge

    Partisans will vote for “their” team no matter what. So as you say, elections are won or lost by a few. Except that the few, the Independents are the only “party” that is growing.

    Perhaps the people of this country are finally waking up to the fact that the Democrats and the Republicans only care about their party. If enough people wake up to that fact and if enough people are paying attention then the Democrats are digging themselves a hole they may not climb out of until every Democrat involved is out of office.

    I know that I won’t forget. And I damn sure won’t forgive.

  • kenoshamarge

    I am just disgusted with Bill Clinton and his support of this atrocity.

    I was convinced he couldn’t be much of a man when he supported Obama after Obama and his henchmen called Clinton a racist. No “real” man would forgive that. But then Clinton isn’t a man, he’s a politician. And that is a far cry from a man. IMO

    I quit caring about anything Hillary Clinton had to say when she went to work for Obama.

  • Jillie

    if health care premiums drop by 3000%, the insurance companies will start paying us.  you are an idiot.  if they dropped by 100%, that would mean we would pay nothing.  such stupidity from obama and his minions is to be expected.

  • Linda C

    None of you actually know Denis Kucinich..so it would behoove everyone to stick to the facts.   The problem with this Bill is that it does not go far enough and ends up like Medicare D.   The government or any other entity cannot negotiate contract prices with the drug compnies..therefore huge profits for them.  Therefore, Dennis Kucinich voted against the Medicare D legislation.  Even though Dennis might eventually support this one , he will work tirelessly to admend it. 

    If we start “from scratch” then there will no action for another 20 years especially if the republicans have their way. Even though we all desire “bipartisan” support.  It ain’t happening so get off of the ideals the  huckster in office campaigned on.   There are probably no more informed people here that know about the “campaigning of Obama pie in the sky crap than those who visit here.  

    As for Rep Kucinich, he knows what is it is like to grow up poor and even homeless.  So save your ire for someone else.  He took up many unpopular causes when he was mayor in Cleveland, including the electric company that was trying to bamboozle the public,  Kucinich stood up to them against all of the fear mongereers and ended up being right.  He is the first to see through BS and calls them out.

  • Breeze

    “3000%” from Obama, 
     
    added to Al Gore’s “the center of the Earth is millions of degrees”, 
     
    equals a “degree from Harvard is worthless”.

  • tango

    The numbers don’t add up. If you reduce the cost of something by 100%, then it’s zero.  More than 100% and they’re paying you.  Yah, the insurance company is going to start paying people for the priviledge of insuring them. 

    Good thing Obama majored in law. Math is obviously not one of his better subjects. Numbers trip him up.  Maybe he can next visit the 55th and 56th states to drum up support for his health care reform package.

    And if he misspoke and meant to say 3% or $3000 dollars lower, then it appears that TOTUS is playing dirty tricks.  That sneaky Teleprompter of the US!  

  • Breeze

    Can you imagine if Sarah Palin had said that?

    But The Lightbringer or The BloatedOne say it and the LSM says…?

    C.R.I.C.K.E.T.S.

  • jbjd

    Any bill the strongest advocacy for passage of which depends on a reliance that ONE legislator will fight to correct its faulty provisions, even assuming such fight COULD be successful, deserves to be defeated. 

  • arabella trefoil

    I don’t have “ire” for Kucinich as a person. I do have a lot of ire for the people who are foisting this bill down our throats.

    I don’t believe that this is our only chance in 20 years to do something to reform health care. That sounds alarmist to me.

    And I think very little indeed of people who will “work like hell to ammend/fix/mitigate” this disastrous bill. I can just imagine these types saying “I’m working on it, I’m working on it. Just give me another year. Or five. Or twenty.”

    Anyone who votes yes on this bill will not get my vote. Period. End of story.

    I am not convinced this bill will pass. We are being bombarded with the propaganda of inevitability. If God forbid it does pass, I will move heaven and earth to see it defeated in court, overturned, or legislated out of existence.

    Americans are not docile cows. We fight for what we know is right. And we don’t give up because some pointy-headed know-alls in Washington know what’s best for us.

    Kill the Bill!

  • Breeze

    http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-survey-health-reform-impact.aspx

    Health Reform and Primary Care Physicians

    • 46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.

  • Captain Jack Sparrow

    The Truth Is Out There!  Some where!

    Endgame on health reform: Bloody, with a touch of weird

    Posted by Judy Dugan
    <!– content –>

    Who says legislative procedure is dull? The final machinations leading to a health care vote have me by the throat: What arcane rules will prevail? Which way will the bloody cage match over the shrinking number of House swing votes go? In the background is a shocking loss of health insurance in California. Yet one of the weirdest developments is a print ad and e-mail campaign by the health insurance industry that is both dull and pointless.

    The no. 1 cure for Anthem Blue Cross greed: Here’s the plan, from the expert

    Posted by Judy Dugan
    <!– content –>

    Harvey Rosenfield, the founder of Consumer Watchdog and the author of California’s landmark insurance regulation, is the original expert on making insurance companies friendlier to consumers. So when he outlines a plan to make health insurance more affordable–and combat price spikes like the recent 39% annual increase by Anthem Blue Cross–he’s got 20 years in the trenches making insurance companies toe the line, to back him up.

  • HARP

    While I don`t want to defend the insurance companies, I do find this chart interesting.

  • helenk

    My husband used to ask ” how come when we do not have time to do something right, we find time to fix it” This phony balonga that we will fix it later is unbelievable. Yes health care insurance needs to be overhauled. Do it right the first time and stop trying to shove the lie down our throats, This mess they are trying to pass is nothing more than a handout to the insurance companies at our expense.
    Surprise us all and stand up for the American citizen for a change.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Captain Jack Sparrow

    These are some what deceptive numbers. While true that the industries “overall” profit margins have been low. What these margins do not take into consideration is that these reflect the percentage of revenue that is left over after the industry pays,  salaries, expenses, taxes and lots of other accounts payable.

    So it’s possible for the companies to pay their executives a ton of cash and bennies and still have a low profit margin. That’s why many in the financial industry, as an example, were able to pay huge bonuses to it’s executives while the company itself lost huge amounts of cash.

    I also submit that this chart is a total average of the industry while independently for example United Health Group, the largest of the nsurers, had a 4.1 percent profit margin over the past 12 months. WellPoint, had a 4 percent. Aetna, Cigna, and Humana came in below that.

    But let’s not talk about the profit margins in the pharmaceutical Industry! Try this list

    Amgen (biotechnology): Profit margin, 30.6 percentGilead Sciences (biotechnology): 37.6 percentCelgene Corp. (biotechnology): 11.9 percentJohnson & Johnson (drug manufacturer): 20.8 percentPfizer (drug manufacturer): 16.3 percentGlaxoSmithKline (drug manufacturer): 17.4 percentUnitedhealth Group (healthcare plans): 4.1 percentWellPoint (healthcare plans): 4 percentAetna (healthcare plans): 3.9 percentMedcoHealth Solutions (healthcare services): 2.1 percentExpress Scripts (healthcare services): 3.7 percentQuest Diagnostics (healthcare services): 8.7 percentMedtronic (medical equipment): 14.9 percentBaxter International (medical equipment): 17.5 percentCovidien (medical equipment): 12.3 percent

  • Docelder

    FF, do you have a calculator? Try it yourself. Take what you pay and subtract 3000% from it. Now be honest and see if you don’t spend more than that a year on the doctor’s office. I think the insurers take unconscienable profit. This bill won’t stop any of that. At any rate nobody makes 3000% profit. Except maybe drug makers… Oh, they are “protected” too with this bill.

  • carol haka

    He just caved.

    Next one to bite the dust.  If you remember, he is the one that had his pledged delegates move to Obama instead of Hillary in Iowa.

    He needs to go.  Start the campaign against him.

    Creep.

    Bought and Paid for.

    >:o

  • Armymom

    I have “ire” for Dennis. The fruitcake (as in nuts) is from my state. He’s always been “one fry short of a happy meal” and when he was against this bill, I actually had hoped that he was becoming normal again. Guess you can’t expect much when “scotty got beamed up”. Must have been those anal probes into his brain.

  • Guest

    Please, when you get a minute, explain the math of reducing anything by 3,000%.  Thank you.

  • carol haka

    OMG.  These pundits make me puke.

    Seriously, kick the pigs at the trough out.  Take their healthcare away from them – they can wait for the 4 years before it would kick in if it were even worth having.

    >:o

  • Liz

    Cheap Whore!

  • Required Reading

    “Deem me up, Scotty!”

  • Guest

    Can anyone name some of these women?

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS 
    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • My other site

    I don’t think it’s a question of Kucinich persuading anyone.  The issue here is what Obama is threatening these people with to make them vote yes.  

    OT:  There’s a story up today that Hawaii is going to pass a law to prevent Americans from asking to see Obama’s birth certificate!  They say some nurse has seen it and that’s that.  Well, if it really exists, why not publish it once and for all and put a rest to all this.  I’m afraid the Barbarians have crashed the gate and their sacking D. C., I mean, Rome.

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Before coming to NH, we lived in Lakewood, OH, so I used to drive by his office on a regular basis in the course of my day. We always considered Dennis a benign eccentric who had some crazy ideas, but who listened to his constituents. I am just disgusted that he either sold out or was blackmailed into throwing his support behind this bill. I’ve already sent an email telling him so and will keep calling until I can get through. (What a surprise: the lines are busy!) I suggest we all keep calling.

    202-225-5871 – D.C. office
    216-228-8850 – Lakewood office

  • My other site

    Docelder:  I think you’re on to something.  It’s incredible how like Germany this country has become, Germany at the time the Nazis took over.  We’re ripe.

  • My other site

    Actually, responsible studies show that at least 1/3 of the total Mexican pop. is living illegally in the U. S. That’s 30 million.  The number doesn’t even take into account all other Latinos.  The real numbers are closer to 100 million and if chain migration is allowed the bill will add 175 million hispanics to the pop of U. S. An instant voting majority.  They will control this country.  It’s treason.

    The answer:  NUMBERS USA, join it today!

  • My other site

    We got a lousy corporate shill.

  • My other site

    Please, Hillary Clinton is my last hero.  I have to cling to some faith in her.

  • My other site

    Linda C:  all that doesn’t matter.  We need leaders who will stand up to the clowns in the WH, not acquiese on the premise they’ll fix things later.

  • hm

    3000 percent?!! 3000 fucking %?!! ROFLMAO!!

    FF is putting this up — looks like he is more of an idiot than Obama

  • hm

    3000%?!! ROFLMAO. You are more of an idiot than Obama to put this up as evidence of something good.

  • Hokma

    I cannot believe I am doing this, but I am actually agreeing with Jack Sparrow.

    The rhetoric of those supporting this healthcare overhaul about health insurance company profit margins and even hospitals are counter to actual fact, which you see.

    However, as Jack points out pharmaceutical companies have some of the highest profit margins of any industry. Part of that they say is their need to invest heavily and continuously in R&D. Part of that is also government regulation concerning patents and their length which benefits these companies.

    Concerning that list of industries, I can tell you that the beverage profits for soft drinks are about right and the wine and spirits is a little low.

  • Breeze

    3,000 PERCENT!

    March 16, 2010
    Posted by Scott
    Powerline.com

    Stumping for Obamacare yesterday in Ohio, Obama touted its manifold virtues like the patent remedy salesmen of old. For whatever ails us, this legislation is the cure. Here Obama touts the legislation’s magical reduction of expenses for employers with an incidental benefit to employees:

    “Now, so let me talk about the third thing, which is my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for families, for businesses, and for the federal government.

    So Americans buying comparable coverage to what they have today — I already said this — would see premiums fall by 14 to 20 percent — that’s not my numbers, that’s what the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says — for Americans who get their insurance through the workplace.

    How many people are getting insurance through their jobs right now?

    Raise your hands.

    All right.

    Well, a lot of those folks, your employer it’s estimated would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000 percent, which means they could give you a raise. ”

    Even conceding that Obama misspoke — what number did he mean to cite? — the more appropriate question would have been: “Do you believe in magic?”

    One wonders at what point embarrassment, let alone respect for the intelligence of the audience, might set in.

  • Docelder

    There are a lot of companies setup as non-profit that pay their executives very well also. Name me a big corporation now that doesn’t cook the books. I have no love lost for insurance companies, or any other of the conglomerate corporations right now. Small business needs some respect right now. We need to be helping them.

  • Yttik

    There are so many spineless jellyfish in DC, we should probably put in an aquarium so they stop leaving puddles on the floor.

  • Breeze

    Saint Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland.

    Let’s drive the snakes out of Congress.”

  • HARP

    Dennis a few days ago:

    “This bill represents a giveaway to the insurance industry,” Kucinich told MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell. “$70 billion a year, and no guarantees of any control over premiums, forcing people to buy private insurance…I’m sorry, I just don’t see that this bill is the solution.”

  • Juliezzz

    I think obama waterboarded dennis on that airplane

  • arabella trefoil

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/magazine/14emanuel-t.html?pagewanted=4&ref=magazine

    From The Limits of Rahmism by Peter Baker

    <quote>With Obama determined to pursue an expansive vision of his program, Emanuel devised a strategy predicated on avoiding what he saw as the mistakes of the Clinton effort 16 years earlier. Rather than present fully drafted bills to Congress, Obama let lawmakers take the lead in shaping legislation. Rather than fight the well-heeled health care industry, Emanuel brought lobbyists for hospitals and drug makers to the table and cut deals — in the case of the pharmaceutical industry, its contribution to the cost savings in the health care legislation would be capped at $80 billion, in effect ruling out the importation of cheaper drugs. And rather than sequencing initiatives as Clinton did — tackling one big proposal at a time — Obama moved forward across the board. For a while it seemed to be working. Within 24 days of taking office, Obama pushed through a $787 billion package of spending programs and tax cuts to revive the recession-racked economy, dwarfing any comparable stimulus package in the country’s history. The belief was that victories would beget victories. The administration would use 2009 to restructure the nation’s health care system, energy industry and financial-regulatory structure, “and then use 2010 to explain what we did,” as a White House official put it. Another official told me, “Well, it didn’t work.” </quote>

    Rahm is the guy who wants to get the win no matter what. This article alleges that Rahm set up the meetings with Big Pharma. Were these meeting televised? No. And Big Pharma got a lot out of the closed door negotiations, including the prohibition to import cheaper generic drugs.

    And while I don’t trust anything in the New York Times, this article has some clues as to what the hell is really going on in the White House. I laughed out loud at Baker’s contention that “Obama let the lawmakers take the lead in shaping legislation.” He did? For one thing, what happened to separation of powers. Isn’t the Congress supposed to make laws? Secondly, between the whipping arm of Nancy Pelosi and the the strong-arming by Rahm the the enforcer, how much did Obama “let” Congress do anything?

  • Mary cusack

    If this health care passes its the end of this country.  How can they just ram this thing down our throat.  It will never be repealed.  this is fucking tryranny.  In american tryanny.  this is a fucking nightmare

  • oowawa

    Lead us to the barricades, arabella!  Just wait a second–got to go get my oxygen bottle . . .

  • Mary cusack

    nah no waterboard,  the larry sinclare treatment

  • Onofre’s arm

    Here, I’ll try and help you FF:

    If you increase something by 3,000%, you are increasing it thirty times. Therefor, if you were paying $10 a month for HC ins., if it went up 3,000% you would be paying $300 a month. Perhaps Descartes Obama actually meant that Ins. premiums would be thirty times smaller. That would mean that if you were paying $300 a month, you would only be paying $10 a month with his miracle plan. Hooray!

    Of course, in order to believe this possible, one would have to suspend belief in such things as reason and the immutable laws of physics. However, since we’re dealing with the semi deity Obama, we are compelled to consider the possibility that He just MIGHT be able to create something from nothing, like free and endless health care for all Americans, including illegals, without the need to pay for it.

    Personally, I believe that ALL doctors, nurses, dentists, hospitals, and pharmaceutical manufacturers should go on sabbatical, work on their golf games or other hobbies, perhaps then the ridiculous myth that health care is some sort of “right” would finally be exposed. 

  • oowawa

    Freedom Fighter said: “Public run health care is the ultimate goal, but reducing health care premiums by 3,000% is a good start.”

    ROTFLMAO–Good one, Freedom Fighter!  Who is that masked man?  Hi-Yo Silver!

  • Docelder

    I too was just giving the benefit of the doubt. That was well put. 3000% is ridiculous enough on it’s own without treading into the prospect of negative numbers.

  • Onofre’s arm

    This is a rather famous Doctor’s diagnosis of Kucinich:

    Ya gotta believe Dr. McCoy!

  • carol haka

    I am not! :*

    :-D

    I heard Ohio was going Republican with the Governor – who’s the guy running that’s Republican?  I like him.  He seems to have his head on his shoulders.

  • Docelder

    It is a giveaway to insurers, hospital corporations and pharma. It is a takeaway from Medicare and from middle class taxpayers. How much more can the middle class take? Well, until they are no longer the middle class. That seems to be the plan for middle class extinction.

  • carol haka

    Hey Dennis – I hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes.  Tick Tock, Tick Tock…………..

    >:o

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    :-D

  • Craig Della Penna

    Never held much of a brief for Kucinich. It always seemed to me that his issues were picked more for their publicity value than for their practical reality – and as carol haka points out above: when push came to shove in the 2008 primary he sold out HRC and his constituents to curry favor with Obama. He lost all credibility as a moral high-roader with that one.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Onofre’s arm, a 3,000% increase of $10 is $310, not $300. You are obviously in no position to help me, or ivy league educated President Obama in math.

  • sowsear

    Yes, the FBI was quick to say that there was no evidence that the 3 people killed near the border were hit jpbs.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Annie, given that Obama’s very first step was a HUGE cave to Big Pharma, who know what the cost will be for meds if this goes through?

    How cn people be so blind abt this bill, and Obama??

    Kucinich – grrrr.  I resent I ever gave him a dime thinking he might actually have some integrity.  Ha.  Joke’s on me, and everyone else who thought he might be a person of his convictions…

  • sowsear

    Today Yahoo News says Dems will use an arcane parliamentary procedure to pass this bill…They absolutely don’t care what we think. They’re bought and paid for.

  • sowsear

    And the henchmen to go with him.

  • sowsear

    And my cane. Will whack them over the head as they jump the barricades.

  • sowsear

    Hillary is the genius in the other room, now….

  • oowawa

    Oh HARP–you just picked a Kucinich picture where he’s wearing his ceremonial lodge hat.  He very seldom dresses like that; normally, he’s quite resplendent (of course the fashion sense of the folks he hangs out with is sometimes a bit questionable):

  • sowsear

    The White House: (202) 456-1414
    The Capitol Switchboard:  (202) 224-3121
    Contact Your Elected Officials: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/ Elected.shtml
    Fax Free Website:  http://faxzero.com
    Write Your Representative:  https://writerep.house.gov/ writerep/welcome.shtml
    TweetCongress.org: http://tweetcongress.org/ and

    The White House: (202) 456-1414
    The Capitol Switchboard:  (202) 224-3121
    Contact Your Elected Officials: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/ Elected.shtml
    Fax Free Website:  http://faxzero.com
    Write Your Representative:  https://writerep.house.gov/ writerep/welcome.shtml
    TweetCongress.org: http://tweetcongress.org/ and

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Well said!

  • sowsear

    The White House: (202) 456-1414
    The Capitol Switchboard:  (202) 224-3121
    Contact Your Elected Officials: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/ Elected.shtml
    Fax Free Website:  http://faxzero.com
    Write Your Representative:  https://writerep.house.gov/ writerep/welcome.shtml
    TweetCongress.org: http://tweetcongress.org/ and

  • prime obot

    According to Krugman, after 10 years the numbers get even better in terms of longterm savings. But I guess the Nobel-winning economist is wrong and Onofre’s Arm is right?  

    What’s more, we’re just at the beginning of this process. The lack of widespread, heavily-subscribed non-profit public insurance alternatives is what is crushing America on health care spending. This bill is just a first step toward that. 

    And Onofre, before you start freaking out about socialism and all that nonsense: no American will ever be forced to choose a public plan over a private plan. You want to keep letting yourself be gouged by Anthem or whomever once there’s a cheaper, better, safer, more reliable plan available, you will always be free to do so. 

    But you won’t. Because it won’t make economic sense. This is why Republicans are freaking out now — because Democrats are about to change this country forever, and very much for the better. this bill is just baby steps, but the principles it enshrines are momentous. 

  • sowsear

    I e-mailed yesterday using their website contact list. Supposedly all went through—probably into the round file.

  • Docelder

    These “principled” democrats are like tic-tac-toe playing chickens. They always go for the corn. Always.

  • Moright

    No surprise on Kucinich’s vote. Doesn’t anyone remember how he led Cleveland to bankruptcy as mayor? I’ve always been amazed that this moonbat, cockroach could survive this long. Back room, sleazy deals are no surprise to those familiar with radical’s agenda thru the years.

  • Docelder

    Even better than paying for 10 years and getting six years worth of coverage? Even better than that? Wow. Maybe like we pay for 10 years and get 8 years worth of coverage? That would be 25% better I guess. These guys really are the smartest ever I guess.

  • prime obot

    You know, there are times when I realize that the understanding of actual real-world politics on this site is so remarkably primitive (yes, I know, that’s one of those condescending statements that prevents me from being “liked,” right? Oh well). Here’s the deal: Dennis Kucinich is one of the most liberal members of Congress. He gets reelected cycle after cycle by his urban Cleveland district despite being known as a truly radical liberal. His opposition to this bill has been because it wasn’t nearly as “socialist” as he wanted. In the end, because the vote count will be close, he supported it (as those of us who really follow this stuff knew he would), because he understands that it’s a step in the right direction, only a step, but a crucial step. By switching his vote to Yes, however, he is not endangering his political future, he’s protecting it. If he had voted no, he would have faced a primary challenge in Ohio from another progressive, and progressive anger at his vote would have funded the other guy liberally. You folks apparently think somebody is now going to defeat him from the right because he supported a bill that probably has about 80% approval in his home district.

    This is what I mean when I say people on NQ don’t really know on-the-ground politics.  

  • Docelder

    Even better than paying for 10 years and getting six years worth of coverage? Even better than that? Wow. Maybe like we pay for 10 years and get 8 years worth of coverage? That would be better I guess. These guys really are the smartest ever. Wow.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    The Kool aid has taken its toll on FF if he really thinks Obama is giving us a 3,000% reduction.
    In fact he should be living in a hospital thinking that, permanently strapped down to boot.

  • Docelder

    You ought to google this phrase

    “The masses find it difficult to understand politics, their intelligence is small. Therefore all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points. The masses will only remember only the simplest ideas repeated a thousand times over.”

    It is shocking where it came from. Absolutely shocking.

  • AC

    prime obot, your statement
    “Nobel-winning economist is wrong and Onofre’s Arm is right?”

    Even you should have more sense than to invoke any “Nobel” prize after Obama’s for doing nothing.
    The Nobel is now relegated to the ash heap of history.  It used to mean something (for an accomplishment) but no longer–it’s now a popularity contest–that’s all!

  • Docelder

    Where’s Jerry Springer when you need him.

  • oowawa

    But without Thee One, none of this would have been possible.  His posse knew they had to go out and “win one for the ‘Bama.  O knew in his heart that it was all about Him, and he was right (as he always is).   Yes, he “let” them, in the same sense that God once said “Let there be light!”

  • oowawa

    But without Thee One, none of this would have been possible.  His posse knew they had to go out and “win one for the ‘Bama.”  O knew in his heart that it was all about Him, and he was right (as he always is).   Yes, he “let” them, in the same sense that God once said “Let there be light!”

  • oowawa

    But without Thee One, none of this would have been possible.  His posse knew they had to go out and “win one for the ‘Bama.”  O knew in his heart that it was all about Him, and He was right (as He always is).   Yes, He “let” them, in the same sense that God once said “Let there be light!”

  • Liz

    Hi, not you.  Kucinich is a cheap whore!!!

  • tango

    Wow, more good news if Obama care passes.  This time from the people tasked to provide you care. And who says there won’t be rationing and long waits if we lose a great number of Family Practice doctors who choose to retire or leave medicine or stop treating patients?

    46.3% of primary care physicians (family medicine and internal medicine) feel that the passing of health reform will either force them out of medicine or make them want to leave medicine.36% of physicians would not recommend medicine as a career, regardless of health reform.  27% would recommend medicine as a career but not if health reform passes.62.7% of physicians feel that health reform is needed but should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in legislation.

    http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-survey-health-reform-impact.aspx

  • Onofre’s arm

    Since you’ve implied that an Ivy league education is the unassailable standard for brilliance, have you set a precedent that would imply that George W. Bush should never be questioned about his superior intelligence?

    Yes FF, I forgot to add in the initial $10 into the final product, but this minor miscalculation could easily be explained by the difference of the words “by” and “of”. An increase “of” 3,000% would require that the initial amount be added into the final product. An increase “by” 3,000% indicates a straight multiplier of 30, not thirty times plus the original amount. Since YOU claimed that Obama said he would reduce it “by” 3,000%, that indicates a straight multiplier. My math wasn’t incorrect, my verbiage was ambiguous because I left out the word “by” after “..it went up…”. However, since we’re dealing with the mathematics of the absurd as set forth by Obama and his team of speech writing Einsteins, the only rule that must be adhered to is the rule that anything Obama says is gospel. 

  • oowawa

    Well, it will become obvious that the deficiency of doctors will require some creative legislation.  I see no reason why the educational requirements for an MD should not be reduced to 2 years max, and that could be handled in our community colleges. 

  • Docelder

    Maybe there are no more heroes. Maybe we are going to have to save ourselves.

  • Onofre’s arm

    The bill will NOT pass. Progressives like you Primate Butt will get a crushing kick in your sorry asses with the giant boot of the conservative lovers of the Constitution. Everyday, it becomes more obvious that the Progressive movement has been exposed as the subversive Marxist movement that it has always been. I’ll celebrate when you Progressives are all rounded up and are exiled to Cuba or Venezuela. Hahahahaha.

    (This is snark of course, I’m just mimicking Primate Butt from the opposite direction)

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Come get it.

  • Diana L. C.

    The news today in our local paper (Denver) was that the caucuses in both parties went in the favor of anyone who was NOT in power, had no Washington connections.  In other words, here in CO, it seems we want all the bastards to go back to their mommas.

  • trixta

    If there is a Clinton challenge in 2012, Hispanics/Latinos would favor Hillary over Obama…just as they did in 2008. 

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Did you miss the memo?

  • Diana L. C.

    BH,

    You wrote: “However, Klein pointed out, this is the time when representatives will lie to leadership in the hopes that they can get more goodies in order to gain their votes, which means that — given the right incentives — their votes can be won over.”

    We saw this indeed with the superdelegates during the primary.  The money people behind Obama are buying US by bying the people who are supposed to represent our interests.  Funny isn’t it, the first (half)AA POTUS may be the one selling us all into slavery. 

    I’ll be dead by then, but I worry for my kids.  Maybe I can make them promise to use whatever I manage to leave them to get the hell out of here.

  • sowsear

    Or maybe a certificate by mail wqould do it.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Actually Onofre, you focused on the wrong word. It’s not “of’ or “by” but “increase”. Increasing something BY a certain percentage is the same as an increase OF a certain percent. If you had said 3,000% of the $10 would be correct, but an increase of 3,000% is incorrect. Obama isn’t unassailable, but you are simply wrong here.

  • sowsear

    The morning paper says my rep will support Obamacare. I am chewing up nails at the minute.

  • trixta

    Yes, Docelder, getting rid of the middle class is one of the prime goals for the oligarchic class.  This way they have total control of the state and its resources.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Mask? What mask? Are you referring to this? He isn’t wearing a mask though…

    http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/popi/archive/2009/03/16/wizard-mag-conjures-super-obama.aspx

  • Docelder

    They can just come up with a new degree altogether… CD. Standing for “community doctor”. ACORN types can award the degrees. You would have to be a minority candidate to become a CD of course, it would be a two year trade school degree, but it could pay the same medicare reimbursement rates as they do for real doctors. Then CD’s could treat all the old people… you know for practice.

  • trixta

    They’ll just pass a law forcing people with medical degrees to practice under Obamascare.

  • Docelder

    When we start passing bills without voting on them it is time to start over. We will be seeing that constitutional convention I believe. What could possibly be worse than abject failure to govern?

  • sowsear

    I guess we have become The New Silent Majority.

  • sowsear

    Or maybe a certificate by mail would do it.

  • sowsear

    If they let your kin inherit anything, that is…
    The next question is, if they have something left, where could they go?

  • donjo

    Onefre; Please don’t put the word “progressive” in the same sentence as Obama. It’s like oil and water; they don’t mix.  Fascist would be a better choice.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Does it really matter!!!!  Why worry over $10 the fact you really believe or posted the link above, you need to really need to seek help before it costs you!  Nip it in the bud FF it will be cheaper for you!

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    >:o

  • prime obot

    Do you really understand the bill that little, Docelder? Really? 

    The structural changes that this bill embodies aspire to “bend the cost curve.” If they succeed — and Krugman and others believe they will, especially if future Congresses continue to improve the legislation based on real world feedback — those bending lines will accumulate greater and greater savings over time. 

  • prime obot

    Really? I thought he was a socialist. Gee. 

  • prime obot

    The Nobel Peace prize is often kind of bogus and political, agreed. The Nobel Prize for Economics is another matter. 

  • sowsear

    I posted this last night:

    Nancy calls all females to meeting tomorrow. Agenda to be determined. Wonder if it’s the abortion language…  
    http://www.rollcall.com/news/44266-1.html?type=printer_friendly

  • carol haka

    Sadly, there mommas don’t want them neither.

    :-D

  • carol haka

    Obats can’t be prime.

    That being said maybe they should look at lastest Gallup:

    Obama

    Disapprove 47%
    Approve     46%

    And, of course, that is totally skewed to the positive.

    :-D

  • carol haka

    Their mommas don’t want them neither.

    :-D

  • carol haka

    He’s the one that joined the socialist party in Illinois.

    >:o

  • jbjd

    The ONLY way Kucinich justifies today’s vote FOR the taxpayer gift to the health insurance industry bill; is to establish that sufficient numbers of his constituents changed their minds.  Otherwise, what his reason up till now for voting AGAINST?

  • jbjd

    The ONLY way Kucinich justifies today’s vote FOR the taxpayer gift to the health insurance industry bill; is to establish that sufficient numbers of his constituents changed their minds.  Otherwise, what was his reason up till yesterday’s flight on Air Force One, for voting AGAINST?

  • Required Reading

    Oh trixta – those were the days when laws were actually “passed” in Congress.  Now they’ll just start deeming a group of people “doctors” and have them go around door to door doing medical exams, like the guy down here in Miami who went around neighborhoods, knocking on doors, telling women he was a doctor giving out free breast exams as a community service (true story).  Perhaps even more extraordinary, local news interviewed 3 women who gratefully accepted, but were not so grateful when they found out he was just a groper. No wonder the most popular movie this week is Alice in Wonderland — we’re living it …..

  • Onofre’s arm

    Hey Primate Butt, you do realize that the numbers Johnson used to sell Medicare ended up being only one ninth of the predicted cost, don’t you? Johnson sold us a “Pig in a poke”, and what’s worse, he knew it, and he intentionally concealed the fact that Medicare would cost far greater than what he was telling people. 

    There is no reasonable metric than can accurately predict the costs of such a ridiculously complex and massive bill such as this. However, there is one fundamental basic in economics; there is no limit to demand. Once people feel entitled to limitless healthcare by government fiat, you can damn well bet that they’ll get all of it they can get their hands on. When healthy young people who have chosen not to get health ins because they rarely NEED healthcare services, are compelled by the government to purchase it, they will naturally want to get something for their money and add a huge new burden to a system that is already swamped. Initially, this may seem wonderful to a simpleton like you Primate Butt, but the system will rapidly have to adjust to the huge influx of new consumers by either: A. Increasing the price of an increasingly scarce product, thereby rapidly inflating predicted costs. Or B. The product will have to be rationed. And the most frightening aspect of rationing by the government is the likelihood that the rationing will need to be brutal and formulated by a new government entity, or the euphemistically named “Death Panels”. Such considerations don’t seem to be factored into Obama’s “Best of all possible Worlds” mentality, and they know it.

    This bill is a massive fraud meant to deflect attention from the true Progressive intentions of complete government autonomy over all aspects of our lives, and it will lead to a Constitutional crisis if it passes.

    And since you need an education on economic principles as they relate to healthcare, I suggest you read this timeless article, and try to open your shuttered mind for once, and let some fresh air in.

     http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/medicare-prescription-for-a-fools-paradise/

  • Breeze

    Read how the Clintons are REJOYCING over possible passage of this bill

    in the article below, jbjd!!! 

    Direct quotes from the Big Dawg Himself!!!

    TRAITORS!!!

  • prime obot

    The freeman online? Really? LOL. I’m familiar with the source. Funny how everything the libertarians predict hasn’t actually, you know, happened in Europe, where they’ve had various stripes of single-payer public health care for decades and spend less per capita on health care than the U.S. while delivering healthier citizens who live longer and never go bankrupt from medical spending. And so far as I know, they have no death panels. 

    I do love how you libertarians can coexist with all the socialists on this site (the ones who think he’s a sellout to progressive principle for not proposing a stronger public option like Hillary did, and would have again) and manage never to argue with each other, since you all agree that you hate Obama.   

  • oowawa

    A new motto for the medical profession: “We are all Dr. Zhivago now . . . “

  • oowawa

    A new motto for Congress: “Deem and Ream . . . “

  • Docelder

    The cost curve is a composite of doctors fees, prescription fees, diagnostic fees, hospital fees insurance taking profit and expenses of administration. So, what is going to give to bend the cost downward? Obama has already given away prescription drugs and insurance. Do we really think anytiing other than limiting services will reduce anything at all at this point? It can’t. Sure we can chisel the family doctors a bit more. They take the least of everybody in this list. If we can’t limit the proliferation of non-generic drugs, expensive unnecessary testing or of defensive medicine, then we are truly limited. Right now, this is what I see happening. Give away the store to pass the bill and give yourself nowhere to actually save anything. Some achievement.

  • Onofre’s arm

    FF, in a mathematical context, there is an important distinction between the words “of” and “by”, just as there is an important legal distinction between the words “may” and “shall”.

    An increase “of” 3,000% of something has a different mathematical directive than increasing something “by” 3,000%.

    For instance, if Obama’s two brain cells were to enjoy an increase “of” 3,000% he would then have 62 brain cells. If his two brain cells were to increase in number “by” 3,000%, he would, alas, only have 60 brain cells. More germane to the point though, is to question what the number of brain cells Obama would be left with if the initial two brain cells were reduced “by” 3,000%. If he would release his medical records, perhaps this mystery could be resolved.  

  • carol haka

    I paid for a USC education for my son.

    I guess I will be asking for a refund.

    >:o

  • Freedom Fighter

    Onofre’s arm, again, you are focusing on the wrong operative word. When you increase something, what you have at the end is the sum of what you originally had and the additional amount you increased it by.

    For example: if you had $10, and get an increase OF $5, you’ll have $15. If you have $10, and it is increased BY $5, you’ll have $15. You don’t end up with $5 in either case.

  • Onofre’s arm

    One of the latest recipients of the NPP in economics was a woman for the first time, Elinor Ostrom. Her basic premise summarized: All things considered, consumers do a much better job of regulating product distribution and cost through their actions, than any plans or directives any government or company can propose or mandate. In other words, the old Soviet “5 Year Plan” always fails in form and practice because it is impossible to accurately predict the needs and wants of the public. And the HC bill has little difference from a Soviet 5 Year Plan.

    What were you saying about Nobel Laureates? 

  • Docelder

    If I were Canada right now, I think I would be worried. Their dollar just passed ours. They have natural resources and aren’t afraid to use them and really aside from being cold, Canada is really nice. Once we go bankrupt as a nation, lets face it… they are going to be looking very good to a lot of Americans.

  • Essex Street

    Kucinich is a Bolschevik weasel.  A ride on AF One?  Whore/Pimp.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Soooo, you didn’t read it Primate Butt? Typical arrogantly ignorant Progressive asshole.

    If you read it, you might have an actual foundation to criticize it. But of course, it’s far easier for a person with limited intellect to simply dismiss something outright, than it is to evaluate the information and consider the merits of it. 

    Don’t ever again take your usual hypocritical position that no one ever argues with you based upon issues, because you refuse to even consider or listen to information if it is contrary to your extremely tiny tunnel vision view if reality.

  • Jackie

    “Of course, all of this fretting about votes will be for naught if the House adopts the Louise Slaughter strategy of using the “deem and pass” rule that allows the House to provide passage of the Senate bill without actually having to vote on the bill.”

    Once again, a blatant misrepresentation.  There WILL BE A VOTE.  THEY’RE JUST GOING TO VOTE ONCE, INSTEAD OF TWICE.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Another thing Primate Butt, you failed to address a single point in my post, you immediately scampered off in another direction like the coward and moron that you constantly prove yourself to be. 

    You constantly whimper that I only engage in ad hominem attacks, but I’ve now brought up a bunch of salient points, as I’ve done in the past, and you are completely unable to refute a singe one of them, as YOU have failed to do in the past. 

    Since it is YOU who has constantly refused to engage in a reasonable and thoughtful manner when confronted with valid concerns and principles, I’ll not waste any more of my time presenting compelling arguments to you, you’re not worth the trouble.

    If you examine our history on this blog, you’ll find that I’ve initially approached you three or four times in the spirit of reasoned debate, and every time you’ve either changed the subject, accused ME of being too ignorant, or you’ve bolted for lack of a decent defense.

    Therefor, I can either choose to ignore your stupidity, or I can return to insulting you whenever you deserve it, which is frequently. And besides, insulting someone with such thin skin as you, a Baby Huey boy who runs to the administration the moment you’re unable to withstand the assault that you usually ask for, is far more fun than engaging with you with the misplaced belief that you could ever respond intelligently.

  • Robb

    F.F. how are you able to breathe with your head so far up your own ass?

  • Docelder

    I thought he was a socialist - I wish that is was so simple. Socialist we could deal with. Socialism we could understand. Corporate fascism I neither can deal with or understand. Most people are fooled by Obama thinking he is a Marxist/socialist. Some like him because of that, some dislike him because of that. Both sides would be wrong. Both sides should be very worried. But, they don’t know enough to.

  • helenk

    Backtrack must have one hell of a set of pictures, negatives and kneepads to threaten kucinich with.  Not only make him support the bill put announce it publicly say screw you to his supporters.
    this is the most anti-american citizen bunch I have seen in my lifetime. The rest of the states should suceed from Washington DC and let it sink into the swamp it was built on.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Tricia

    Yep, Dennis K is bought and paid for now. 

  • sowsear

    I remember during the Vietnam War, Canada stopped allowing people to go there/ I’m sure if too many of us want to cross the border, we’ll be treated like illegal Mexicans. Maybe they’ll build a wall….

  • helenk

    I am have been trying to talk my kids into moving to New Zealand or Austraila. I do not see a good future here for my grandchildren.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • sowsear

    I sent the twerp another e-mail ..even though it’s probably a waste of time.

  • Required Reading

    oowawa — how about “The Deem Team” and “Dr. Chicago” : voting procedures and medical care by intimidation only.

  • Required Reading

    Not a misrepresentation; I just heard an explanation. “Deem and Pass” is one of three options being considered by the House leadership.  If “deem and pass” wins out, there is no actual vote; that is, no connection of a member of the House with an actual “Yea or Nay” vote.

  • Required Reading

    Not a misrepresentation; I just heard an explanation. “Deem and Pass” is one of three options being considered by the House leadership.  If “deem and pass” wins out, there is no actual vote; that is, no connection of a member of the House with an actual “Yea or Nay” vote. There would be one vote on the Senate bill — but the point is that the Senate bill is very unpopular with a lot of House reps — deem and pass means that the House would be able to “deem the Senate bill passed” without House members having to actually vote yes or no on the Senate bill — a complete avoidance of accountability and responsibility. Welcome to Obama’s America.

  • sowsear

    To date, Kucinich has opposed Obamacare because he felt it didn’t go far enough in offering health care to enough Americans. Kucinich favors “Medicare for All.” The word is that, on Air Force One, Obama told Kucinich that it is vital to vote for Obamacare because he should view it as an opening, not the be-all-end-all, in legislation. (Conservatives have certainly warned everyone that Obama and his supporters view this health care bill as a first step in putting all health care under the control of the federal government.)
     
    Now I remember, they aren’t building a mansion , they’re building a starter house….

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/the-starter-home

  • Onofre’s arm

    In math, addition is a different process than multiplication. Your example is straight addition. And since addition is subordinate to multiplication in a problem, i.e. : 5X3+10=25, 5X3+10 does NOT equal 65. When the concept of “percentage” is involved, the calculations are figured using either multiplication or division, i.e.: 50% (or 1/2) of 200 is 100, you MULTIPLY 200 BY .5 to get the answer. You don’t subtract 50 from 200, that would give you 150. 100% (multiply by 1) of $10, is still $10, while 3,000% (multiply by 30) of $10 is $300. 

    Since you used addition while I used multiplication, and since addition is subordinate to multiplication, I’m way better than you, nyaa, nyaa, nyaa!  8-)

  • tango

    ” like the recent 39% annual increase by Anthem Blue Cross–he’s got 20 years in the trenches making insurance companies toe the line, to back him up.”

    Uh huh, funny how everyone screams how the big bad for profit health insurance companies are quick to ask for big rate hikes just to line their pockets and give their executives outrageous million dollar bonuses. Michigans Blue Cross Blue Shield is non-profit heavily regulated by that state and still last year it asked for a 56% premium hike. Oregon Blue Cross/Blue Shield (also non-profit in a heavily regulated state) asked for a rate hike too.

    So this idea that if every health insurance company was non-profit health costs would be contained and there would only be reasonable rate increases in line with the cost of living, is bullshit.

  • helenk

    Today seems like a good day to post this song. Our kids will be  singing it soon.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIffYaeOuQQ

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • tango

    Yes, but I have the feeling that Canada, unlike America, will protect and enforce it’s borders and anyone caught in their country illegally will be quickly deported.

  • helenk
  • ~~JustMe~~

    Why study at all, some come with a one page resume so simply buy a diploma on line seems acceptable in “Obama Land” ;)

  • Boxer Mum 06

    Or what about the online colleges? Why bother showing up, surely you can learn to be a surgeon online.

  • steel magnolia

    Is that in all 57 states?

  • Onofre’s arm

    Well Rob, for that type of question to be answered, when asked in a mathematical context, it would require the consideration of the mathematical field of topology. In the example you’ve used of Freedom Fighter’s head up his ass, I’m reminded of the Klein Bottle, a three dimensional version of the Mobius Strip. If he were to successfully shove his head so far up his ass that his head emerged from his mouth, we might indeed have a human Klein bottle, essentially, a three dimensional object with no definable inside or outside. In Freedom Fighter’s case, this would explain a great deal.

    As far as his ability to breath is concerned, it is hypothetically possible, again if he manages to get his head to emerge out of his mouth, because the respiratory system is separate from the digestive system, even though they share the same external opening (the mouth). I’m sure for the right price, we could probably get some college volunteers to test this hypothesis, although the hypothesis seems to have been proven already if we are to believe our eyes regarding the contortions that Congressional Democrats have already assumed.   

  • Freedom Fighter

    Onofre’s arm, it doesn’t matter if it’s addition or multiplication. I used addition to simplify it for you. I can also use a very simple multiplication example as well.

    If you have $10, and it is increased BY 100%, how much money do you have?

    If you have $10, and you get an increase OF 100%, how much money do you have?

  • confused American

    I bet Dennis Kucinich’s state is so very proud of him.
    It only took a plane ride for Obama to get him to vote against his state and people.

    Keep Calling it doesn’t hurt.

  • Steve1

    I really respected Dennis for his convictions…turns out he has none!  What an asshole.  Another hyprocrite!  The Dems are really turning into  losers! 

  • Steve1

    Yeah, sure!  I wonder what “shit”  Barry Soetoro had over Dennis??  Maybe Massa had it right…they are throwing the shit on everyone they can???  Well, hey they do got plenty of “shit on Good ole Barry Soetoro…he better watch out…because what goes around, comes around! 

  • prime obot

    I’m at work, that’s the only reason I haven’t reviewed your document. I will do so. I’ll ignore your unbelievably childish usage of phrases like “Primate Butt.” I’ll also ignore your use of the word “asshole.” For anyone who’s interested, here is the kind of story this bill is intended to stop: 

    (Reuters) – In May, 2002, Jerome Mitchell, a 17-year old college freshman from rural South Carolina, learned he had contracted HIV. The news, of course, was devastating, but Mitchell believed that he had one thing going for him: On his own initiative, in anticipation of his first year in college, he had purchased his own health insurance.
    Shortly after his diagnosis, however, his insurance company, Fortis, revoked his policy. Mitchell was told that without further treatment his HIV would become full-blown AIDS within a year or two and he would most likely die within two years after that.
    So he hired an attorney — not because he wanted to sue anyone; on the contrary, the shy African-American teenager expected his insurance was canceled by mistake and would be reinstated once he set the company straight.
    But Fortis, now known as Assurant Health, ignored his attorney’s letters, as they had earlier inquiries from a case worker at a local clinic who was helping him. So Mitchell sued.
    In 2004, a jury in Florence County, South Carolina, ordered Assurant Health, part of Assurant Inc, to pay Mitchell $15 million for wrongly revoking his heath insurance policy. In September 2009, the South Carolina Supreme Court upheld the lower court’s verdict, although the court reduced the amount to be paid him to $10 million.
    By winning the verdict against Fortis, Mitchell not only obtained a measure of justice for himself; he also helped expose wrongdoing on the part of Fortis that could have repercussions for the entire health insurance industry.
    Previously undisclosed records from Mitchell’s case reveal that Fortis had a company policy of targeting policyholders with HIV.A computer program and algorithm targeted every policyholder recently diagnosed with HIV for an automatic fraud investigation, as the company searched for any pretext to revoke their policy. As was the case with Mitchell, their insurance policies often were canceled on erroneous information, the flimsiest of evidence, or for no good reason at all, according to the court documents and interviews with state and federal investigators….
    Fortis canceled Mitchell’s health insurance based on a single erroneous note from a nurse in his medical records that indicated that he might have been diagnosed prior to his obtaining his insurance policy. When the company’s investigators discovered the note, they ceased further review of Mitchell’s records for evidence to the contrary, including the records containing the doctor’s diagnosis.
    Nettles also suggested that Fortis should have realized the date in the note was incorrect: “Not only did Fortis choose to rely on one false and unreliable snippet of information containing an erroneous date to the exclusion of other information which would have revealed that date to be erroneous, Fortis refused to conduct any further investigation even after it was on notice the evidence which aroused its suspicion to be false,” the judge noted.
    Fortis “gambled” with Mitchell’s life, Nettles wrote.
    Their motive, according to the judge, was obvious: “The court finds that Fortis wrongfully elevated its concerns for maximizing profits over the rights and interest of its customer.” In upholding Nettles’ verdict, the South Carolina Supreme Court similarly ruled that “Fortis was motivated to avoid the losses it would undoubtedly incur in supporting Mitchell’s costly medical condition.”

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Oh, I must respond to this nonsense!

    Look, PO, I know Dennis Kucinich. I lived about a mile and a half from his Lakewood office for 12 years. You have no clue whatsoever about his constituents.  People in Ohio are concerned about jobs. They’re concerned about losing their homes – the ones that have steadily been devalued for the last few years. People in Lakewood fly the American flag from their front porches on every public holiday. Lakewood has more Catholic churches and more bars per square mile than any other suburb of Cleveland. These people are named Kelley and Ristagno and Grudnewski. These people cling to their Heartland heritage and have supported Dennis because he listened  to his constituents and responded. He walked with the people.

    But Ohioans are practical, common-sense people and in the end they will vote their consciences and not their party. They’ll vote for the candidate who they believe will work for them. And if you doubt that, I’ll remind you that in 2008 they voted for Hillary Clinton. 

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Mein Kamf?

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Mein Kampf. I thought it sounded familiar.

    Remember how BO wanted to speak at the Brandenberg Gate?

  • PortiaElizabeth

    I thought this was an interesting aside:
    Origin of arcane:
    1540–50; (< MF) < L arcānus, equiv. to arc(ēre) to shut up, keep (deriv. of arca a chest, box) + -ānus -an

  • Docelder

    The simplest ideas repeated thousands of times. That is all the masses can understand, their intelligence being small. Slogans like “change we need”. Pathetic when you think about it. Absolutely pathetic.

  • beyond_words

    Wow Docelder, nice quote. Before i got to it, I couldn’t help dwell on all the many phrases bandied about here like “corporate fascist” “socialist” “marxist etc”….and thoughts about the so called “urban youth army” that hasn’t sprung up yet that i keep hearing about.

    Thoughts of WWII Germany’s socialist (and fascist) party continually sprung into my mind while reading the blog posts here…..and lo and behold I saw your Main Kampf quote. Scary stuff, and good point.

    If this huge , country -altering bill gets rammed through by “self-execution” and not a free vote i would be quite alarmed. Then what’s next?

  • prime obot

    All right, I’ve now read your idiotic article. As I assumed, the author is a libertarian purist who is making the argument that Medicare/Medicaid must be scrapped completely, and that all medical practice, and all medical insurance, must exist only in the free market. He offers lots of John Galt-in-Atlas-Shrugged explanations for why doctors will flee the medical profession if Medicare is allowed to continue; lots of predictions about how nobody will continue to apply to medical school; lots of predictions about how services will have to be rationed; people above a certain age won’t be able to receive life-saving treatments at all; and how all of this will happen imminently, because government can’t possibly administer a program like this with any kind of efficiency and anyone participating in it is a slave who doesn’t care about his work, and administrators who work within such a system can’t possibly care about patient care so all the seniors will start dying off earlier, etc. 

    Would you agree, Onofre, that that is a fair characterization of the article? Would you agree that that is what you expect to happen with Medicare? 

    Good. Because this piece of drivel was written in 1991, it’s almost 20 years old, so it’s fairly easy to look back and see how many of his predictions came true. 

    Number of applicants to medical school? It was “less than 2″ for every slot back in 1991; it’s holding steady at 2 for 1 today, so it has actually gone up slightly. 

    Number of seniors not receiving life-saving treatments to due budget cuts? None, so far as I know; life expectancy has continued to rise in this country. 

    Rise in prices? Terrifying, but actually lower for Medicare than in the private sector. 

    Customer satisfaction? Every single poll that I know of, going back decades, shows that Medicare clients are FAR happier with their health insurance and health care than those who rely on private insurers. There’s no question about this whatsoever. 

    And all of this leaves aside that, as always, the libertarian completely ignores the example of all of Europe, Canada and now big swaths of Asia, which all have publicly administered systems of one kind or another, almost all have higher life expectancies and dramatically lower per capita expenditures on health care. And in none of those countries — none, zero, and they are all democracies —  have the citizens shown any inclinations whatsoever to scrap their government-run systems and go to a free market system where insurance companies will be free to (just for instance) drop coverage of an 18 year old kid with AIDS just because they don’t feel like paying for his treatment. 

    I hope some of the true progressives on this site are actually reading this post. I hope you realize how deeply morally offensive are the views that many of your fellow NQ Obama haters hold. 

    Onofre, your author is precisely the party-line libertarian idiot that I assumed he was when I saw the domain from which you drew the article. It’s just a surprise bonus that his article is 20 years old, so we can ascertain for sure that absolutely nothing he predicted has come to pass. 

  • prime obot

    The bill will pass. There’s nothing anti-constitutional about it. If you’re referring to “deem and vote,” or whatever they’re calling the parliamentary maneuver that would let the House simultaneously vote on the Senate bill and the reconciliation measure, this has been done dozens of times in recent years, mostly by Republicans during the Bush years to pass massive tax cuts without having to, you know, take responsibility for them. So it’s a pretty familiar way to get through dicey legislation that some members are nervous about.

    When the Republicans were doing it, it was fine, of course; it was “Congress rules.” Now that Democrats are doing it, it’s treason.

    This is why (despite the Democrats’ own problems) so few Americans approve of the GOP anymore; after awhile, almost everyone figures out that nothing these people say has any business being taken seriously. 

  • prime obot

    I meant to include some reference. Here are the latest stats on med school applications: 

    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2009/10/ratio-of-medical-school-applicants-to-available-slots-stays-flat.html

    When the author wrote your piece in 1991, he said the ratio was “less than 2 to 1″ and would surely decline. Instead it has risen. Go figure. 

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Okay, if I have three apples and you want two, how many would I have?

    I would still have three because I don’t share my apples with obots.

  • Armymom

    Like hell we are. We’ve wanted Dennis out for years, but the stupid people up in Cleveland, who forget that he bankrupted them, keep  voting him in. Entitlements and all. He’s a nut case, has always been a nut case and will always be a nut case.

  • Armymom

    John Kasich. He’s heads above Strickland. Strickland has pretty much put the nail in the coffin in this state. I campaigned for Strickland but will not this time. He’s toast, unless Jennifer Bruner finds another way to screw this state. I hope who ever reads this from pumapac lets them know that although Bruner is a woman, do not vote for this lady. She is the main reason that Obama won this state. She did away with ligitamate votes and allowed “park benches” to vote. I know of one Obama campaigner for sure, who moved into our area, to vote, and was allowed to. He then moved on as soon as the election was over. Many, many other instances like that and Bruner okayed it. She is bought and paid for by ACORN. She is running for Voinivich’s seat, along with Lee Fisher, another crook in this state.

  • Karma

    H/T Edgeofforever @ The Confluence….

    cut and pasted text posted large here…sorry about that.  Anyway 5/31/08 has a smoking gun….

    “RBC chair was insurance company CEO: Stole my vote to steal my money”

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/rbc-chair-was-insurance-company-ceo-election-stolen-for-hcr-mandates/

  • PortiaElizabeth

    The One will commence with the Laying on of Hands and the heavens will open up, choirs will sing, and Tiny Tim will walk! Hallelujah!

    Who needs docotors?

  • PortiaElizabeth

    that should be docotrs

  • Karma

    H/T Edgeofforever @ The Confluence and from her blogIt seems there is a smoking gun from 5/31/08 that no one noticed.”RBC chair was insurance company CEO: Stole my vote to steal my money”

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/rbc-chair-was-insurance-company-ceo-election-stolen-for-hcr-mandates/

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Damn this Nyquil!
    I’d better call my doctor. :-[

  • ~~JustMe~~

    LOL PE :)

  • Armymom

    Exactly, but even those people thought he was a little off, but forgave him because he did listen to them. That won’t happen now. And yes, we voted for Hillary, in droves, to send a message.

    Then we had women like Jennifer Bruner and our Governor Loser help Obama win the election. We aren’t forgetting and we won’t forget in November. Strickland is toast, and hopefully Bruner will be gone. Our politics have gotten so much worse and I thought at one time, the Republicans were bad. Ask almost any person who works for the state right now, and they’ll tell you, never, ever have they seen such crooked politics as what they have seen under Strickland. These are hard working people who have had state jobs under many Governors for over 30 years. They hate Strickland and all of his cohorts.

  • Karma

    H/T Edgeofforever @ The Confluence and her blog.

    It seems there was a smoking gun from 5/31/08 that no one noticed.

    “RBC chair was insurance company CEO: Stole my vote to steal my money”

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/rbc-chair-was-insurance-company-ceo-election-stolen-for-hcr-mandates/

  • Karma

    H/T Edgeoforever @ The Confluence and her blog. 

    It seems there was a smoking gun from 5/31/08 that no one noticed.

    “RBC chair was insurance company CEO: Stole my vote to steal my money”

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/rbc-chair-was-insurance-company-ceo-election-stolen-for-hcr-mandates/

  • Linda C

    I am not convinced the bill will pass either, but believe me it will not come again for another 20 years…. Just like with “Hillarycare” and “Hillarycare” was a better bill.  The republcians are not going to vote for anything and are threatening “not to be supportive of future legislation”.  Of course they have not been supportive of any legislation thus far so I guess that won’t be much change.

    My biggest question is what did Obama promise Kucinich in return and will Obama deliver.

  • confused American

    Of course there is the health care approval which is not much better
    40.8 approve whereas 48.8 disapprove….Seems this goes down quicker than Obama’s ratings.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Actually Primate Butt, his predictions are proving to be entirely accurate. He predicted that in the initial phases, costs would spiral upward because of government involvement, and that’s exactly what has happened. Then he predicted that the government would have step into HC again in the guise of solving the problem they created in the first place, in order to prevent what we know to be imminent Medicare bankruptcy, which is EXACTLY what is happening RIGHT NOW! Then he predicted that the only solution, with a fully engaged government, would be to start rationing, which is undeniably the next phase of the government destruction of the finest healthcare system in the world. His predictions weren’t supposed to happen overnight, as most Progressives seem to believe this type of evolution happens. You get an “F” for comprehension, and your inability to apply the principles in the article to actual events. In fact, you exemplify the blindness that afflicts most Progressive hacks.  And you and Obama can stick the endless anecdotal misery stories up your asses. Life is full of tragedy, shit happens, but that’s no reason to drag everyone down into equal misery.

  • Karma

    Speaking of getting an insurance salesmen

    H/T Edgeoforever @ The Confluence and her blog.  
     
    It seems there was a smoking gun from 5/31/08 that no one noticed. 
     
    “RBC chair was insurance company CEO: Stole my vote to steal my money”  
     
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/rbc-chair-was-insurance-company-ceo-election-stolen-for-hcr-mandates/

  • prime obot

    “The HC bill has little difference from a Soviet 5 Year Plan.” 

    That pretty much says it all, in terms of where you’re arguing from. Life is too short to battle this point. If you care to believe this, there are still a few people showing up at the Tea Party events (far less than a month ago, but that’s how these movements go when their intellectual underpinnings are so bereft of coherence); I’m sure they will welcome you. You can all pretend that Obama is a Stalinist and you’re saving America. 

  • prime obot

    Actually, he predicted that the cost spirals would happen in the public sector but not in the private sector; in reality, the opposite was far more true: prices have been spiraling much faster in the private sector than in the public.

    As for the rationing: ah, that’s assuredly the next phrase, is it? There’s some good proof for you. I’m sure there will be death panels and everything very soon! Better start printing up your placards. 

    As far telling me what I can stick up my ass: I can assure you that as I have read more and more of your vile, pointless personal insults, witless pseudo-economic arguments and drearily typical libertarian indifference to the vast suffering our private health care system basically assures, my contempt for you has easily come to equal yours for me; I simply have more grace than you in my public utterances and thus choose not to express it out loud. 

  • prime obot

    Actually, you know what? For once I’m not going stay still. 

    “And you and Obama can stick the endless anecdotal misery stories up your asses. Life is full of tragedy, shit happens, but that’s no reason to drag everyone down into equal misery.” 

    This in response to a recent story I posted above about a 17 year old kid who got AIDS and, having proudly bought an earlier insurance policy to be conservative, found it promptly cancelled by the private insurer the day after he got his AIDS diagnosis. The subsequent lawsuit brought out that the company makes a deliberate, specific effort to go over every scrap of paperwork they have on every single policyholder who gets diagnosed with AIDS, so they can use any fig leaf of an excuse to cancel their policy. 

    And this is the system that people like Onofre and the Tea Party jerkoffs want to defend. And when you point out realities like this, they sneer and laugh and tell you to “stick your misery stories up your ass.” 

    So once again, I call out the so-called progressives on this site, like Reverend Amy. Where do you stand on this, Amy? Are you reading? Do you care about commentary like this? How can you defend it? 

    And no, Onofre, I’m not crying for help here. You’re a fucking idiot windbag insult machine who proudly waves 20 year old libertarian tracts like they’re gold, when in fact every economist with half a brain stopped listening to that crap decades ago. I couldn’t give two shits what you say about anything: I am here to try and engage people who at least call themselves progressives. That’s why I ask Amy at certain moments whether she is reading these threads: because I read her posts, and I respect her opinion, and if she is any kind of progressive she absolutely must read comments like yours and be privately appalled. 

  • prime obot

    I believe your assessment of your neighbors, Portia. But the fact remains, Kucinich is very well known as one of the most liberal members of Congress, and he gets reelected every two years nonetheless. Are you suggesting that voting *for* this bill might hurt his chances of reelection this fall? I don’t believe that for an instant. Quite the opposite. Even today, when support for the bill is close to its all time lows, a narrow majority of Americans think it’s better to pass this bill than to start over:

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/health-overhaul-gets-mixed-reviews-in-poll-2010-03-17

    And among self-described “liberals” and “Democrats,” of course, the bill is extremely popular. And those are the voters who will decide Kucinich’s fate.

    Thanks for the cordial response, though. Always welcomed by this NQ apostate.  

  • prime obot

    Stealing from Medicare? So, you are against finding any cost savings in Medicare? But you want to see the federal budget balanced too, I suppose. And without raising taxes! 

    This is one of the that national politicians must be tempted to throw up their hands and just do what’s politically expedient: the messages they get from their constituents are self-contradictory to the point of incoherence. 

    As for Obama’s “urban young people” — I don’t suppose that is a racial message at all, is it? Oh no, of course not.  I’m sure you’ll explain why it’s urban young people and not uninsured low-income young people all over America who you’re referring to. Since poor rural whites take up vastly more welfare resources in America than urban blacks. But I’m sure you knew that already too. 

  • prime obot

    A Clinton challenge? Ha. That’s rich. 

  • prime obot

    175 million Hispanics in the U.S. instantly? This thread RULES! Can you show me evidence of this? I will google Numbers USA immediately, this is too good to pass up.  

  • prime obot

    Looks like a reasonable website. I disagree with the thesis — i think strong immigration is the key to America’s future prosperity; we need huge numbers of young workers paying taxes and keeping our economy dynamic — but I like the site’s tone. I see no evidence whatsoever that supports your claim of 100 – 175 million Hispanics in the U.S. Perhaps you could point me to that, because that is a crazy number. 

  • prime obot

    Of course they are; the Senate bill is extremely similar to the health care plan the Clintons tried to promote in the early 1990s. I keep saying this on this site and nobody wants to acknowledge it, but it’s the truth. Democrats have been trying to pass legislation like this for decades. Richard Nixon actually offered a plan like this 40 years ago, which had the support of many Republicans. Ted Kennedy has been quoted as saying that he considered his rejection of Nixon’s plan one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as a Senator. 

    So, yeah, of course, the Clintons are rejoicing. They live in the real world, not NQ/PUMA fantasyland. And in the real world, this bill’s success is a gigantic victory for the progressive causes for which Hillary has worked her entire life. I expect libertarians like Onofre to cry in their soup over this bill. Anyone who calls themselves a Hillary fan or any kind of progressive or liberal should be rejoicing.  

  • Onofre’s arm

    Better to have belief in an article twenty years old, that has proven to be remarkably accurate, than to be totally absorbed by the principles set forth in Das Kapital, a book written by a delusional wacko 143 years ago. You’re completely devoted to the Marxist mentality, and in countless attempts to make Marxism work, every attempt has eventually met with failure or immeasurable misery. But every generation seems to breed a new group of morons who think they’re smart enough to pull it off. I’m sure you and Obama are very comfortable in that group, so form a commune in the boonies where you belong, and stop trying to shove Marxism down the rest of our throats. 

  • prime obot

    Right, anyone who doesn’t buy the libertarian line is a Marxist. Same horse manure “useful idiots” like you have been buying on behalf of the billionaire corporations for 30 years now. Thankfully, enough Americans see through it that hardcore Republican claptrap has little remaining electoral resonance. Wait and see what happens this fall. I strongly suspect you will be disappointed. 

    And…that article was “remarkably accurate,” huh? How amusing. I couldn’t find a single prediction the guy made that has actually come true, unless you count rising costs and ignore the fact that Medicare have risen more slowly than costs in the private sector — which is, of course, exactly the opposite of what he predicted.

    Go reread the John Galt monologue and get all hot and bothered. Or, better yet, go join a Tea Party before it’s too late; there are still a few of those losers left.  

  • Docelder

    PObot, we need jobs period. I don’t see how throwing 30-40 million non-English speaking people into the U.S. is going to help us. We aren’t going to need them to pick strawberries soon… people with college degrees can do that just as well. Our unemployment rate measured by old standards is something like 17% now. What are we going for 30%? I know it isn’t about anything but democrat voters in the short term. I would agree with the young and able taxpayer theory if we had a dynamic growing economy with jobs. But we don’t.

  • Docelder

    You have no argument with me there. The Clinton’s are done and have been since BHO got Hillary to join his administration. Being the pack leader of the blue dogs would have been a different story. It is what it is.

  • Docelder

    Heck, even if Tina Fey had said it people would still be attributing it to Palin and making fun of her for it. But let “Thee One” say it and it gets printed in bot handbooks in red typeface as a gospel.

  • Docelder

    There is always a racist angle now that the President is half-black? Why is that? BHO loves him some urban youth not for their skin color, but for the culture of government dependence. I have never seen an ACORN type organization in the suburbs. You know why that is? It doesn’t have to do with skin tone, it has to do with culture. Have you never lived or worked in an urban center? I have worked in an inner city “hood”. People of all colors live pretty much the same lifestyle irregardless of skin melanin content. Been there, done that and I have the t-shirts.

  • Onofre’s arm

    “Right, anyone who doesn’t buy the libertarian line is a Marxist.”

    Setting up more straw men to knock down, Primate Butt? I never wrote that anyone who doesn’t buy the libertarian line is Marxist. I was very clear that I consider “Progressives” like YOU and OBAMA to be Marxists. 

    This isn’t a new formulation on my part, self described Marxists have admitted that they’ve called themselves “Progressives” for at least 100 years. They used the name because of the very negative connotations that the names Communist, Socialist, and Marxist rightfully have in our country. 

    And the only reason Medicare has risen more slowly than private sector healthcare is OBVIOUS to anyone with at least half a brain, so it’s not surprising that you don’t get it. The private sector has been forced by law to subsidize the government system, and the private providers have been handcuffed with price controls on Medicare and Medicaid patients. So, while Medicare pays providers pennies on the dollar, providers are forced to increase prices on the private side to make up the difference. And the more Medicare and Medicaid patients cram into these programs, the more private sector prices will skyrocket to compensate for the losses incurred by the increase in government mandated services that must be provided far below market prices. My God you’re stupid for not understanding this. Putting ALL healthcare under government will not solve this problem, it will aggravate it, but pinheads like you will never grasp such an economical fundamental, because you’re always too busy trying to shove the square peg in the round hole.

    So, why don’t YOU pull out Mao’s little red book and get all hot and bothered yourself.

  • Docelder

    Heck, people can just put their hands on the TV when he speaks and get the same benefit of being there. He is really that awesome. =-O

  • Docelder

    Yep, everybody can vote “present” now. Call it outcome based legislation. Just so long as everybody in D.C. can still feel good about themselves. That is the important thing.

  • Docelder

    When our President and congress believes we are too ignorant to have an opinion, then who knows where we are going? Anything is possible.

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Helen — that’s such a touching song! And totally appropriate on St. Patrick’s Day. :)

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