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Beyond the Veil

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

– American novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald

By Fitzgerald’s standards, the wave of anti-veil rhetoric sweeping across Europe has probably catapulted the continent’s politicians into the intellectual equivalent of the Andromeda galaxy.

Consider the following quote from a liberal Belgian MP following a vote that could put that country on track to be the first in Europe to ban the burqa and niqab: “It is necessary that the law forbids the wearing of clothes that totally mask and enclose an individual. Wearing the burqa in public is not compatible with an open, liberal, tolerant society.” The vote was unanimous, from the Greens to the far right.

When politicians see no contradiction in curbing religious expression by evoking liberalism and tolerance, well, something’s up.

Belgium is not alone. Eight of Germany’s 16 states contain restrictions on wearing the hijab. Throughout that country women in burqa or chador are forbidden to drive motor vehicles. A 2004 French law on secularity and conspicuous religious symbols in schools bans all clothing which constitutes an ostensible religious symbol from government-operated schools (including Jews and Christians). The Netherlands took steps to implement a burqa and headscarf ban, but no action has been taken despite overwhelming public support.

Many of the countries that have implemented bans or are considering doing so have attempted, often to hilariously contradictory effect, to rationalize their actions. The laws are being passed for the women’s own good. Women who wear the headscarf, niqab or burqa are being forced to do so by troglodyte male relatives, so the state must swoop in to save them from this demeaning second class citizen status. To paraphrase Orwell, slavery does not equal freedom.

All this blather is utter nonsense. There have been no statistics published that demonstrate that women who cover are being forced to do so by their families. Is it possible and indeed likely that some girls and women who wear the niqab and burqa would prefer to assimilate to Western society and go about uncovered? Can it be that many women and girls are being forced by their relatives, both male and female, to adhere to tradition? Of course. But there is no evidence to suggest that every covered women has chosen to adhere to this form of dress as a result of coercion.

The truth is very simple, as truth usually is. The Europeans have grown increasingly worried about the inability of some Muslim immigrant communities to assimilate. The Mohammed cartoon riots and the murder of Theo van Gogh underscored the fear and loathing building in Europe. Covered women simply become the most obvious symbol of a group perceived as being intolerant and parochial. Liberate them and their narrow-minded relatives will learn by example.

That and women in niqab and burqas make Westerners uncomfortable, plain and simple. It is a form of religious dress closely associated with societies known for beheadings, stoning, child marriages and other atrocities.

The storm over veils, burqas and other coverings is a sham, a figleaf used by craven European politicians to pander to their voters while avoiding the heavy lifting necessary to ensure that Muslim women living in the West are afforded actual rights. The governments of those countries would go a long way if they dropped the obsessive focus on headgear and instead allocated resources to helping women in immigrant communities understand their legal rights, including directing them to women’s shelters to escape domestic violence, forced marriage and female genital mutilation — as well as enforcing harsh penalties on the perpetrators. On these issues Europe’s politicians have been less than enthusiastic to act.

Finally, if European governments want to ban the burqa and hijab they can do so for security reasons. No society would consider it acceptable to allow its citizens to walk around in balaclavas or Klan hoods or any other article of clothing that hides the identity of the wearer.

Maybe that can be the new slogan: In a public place, you must show your face.

Addendum: A Wall Street Journal writer twists his reasoning into a pretzel explaining why it’s o.k. to ban the veil in France but not in the U.S.


Crosspost from: The Pakistan Update

  • lightacandle

    I don’t think the Koran requires the veil or the burqa; I think that’s a man-made rule.

    The same goes for celibacy for Catholic priests; that’s not in the Bible — in fact, Saint Peter had a wife.

    Many of these rules are man-made.

  • Craig Della Penna

    “The truth is very simple, as truth usually is. The Europeans have grown increasingly worried about the inability of some Muslim immigrant communities to assimilate.”

    You are close to the core of the problem but just a little off the mark: the Muslim immigrant communities do not want to assimilate, in fact, the Koran instructs and demands that they convert all around them (much like the Christian fanatic texts before them).

    This is not a problem that can be resolved by banning burquahs or reasonable discourse – this is a problem that cannot be resolved. The outcome will be separate but comingled societies, with all the contention and strife that entails.

    The only other answer would require Muslim communities to reliquish their 12th century worldview and, since that world view is embedded in the Koran, it will never happen.

  • HARP

    I`ll go along with the burqa, only if Maxine Waters has to wear one.

    http://www.breitbart.tv/off-the-hook-hypocrisy-rep-waters-used-to-love-vulgar-outlandish-protest-rallies/

  • AnnieCarmel

    Perhaps the USA will follow suit if people refuse to board planes with a passenger wearing a burqa or other cover.  As usual, money talks.

  • Michelle from the Resistance

      

    What he said.

  • guest

    How’s Breitbart’s little Watergate burglar wannabe doing? 

  • guest

    “Finally, if European governments want to ban the burqa and hijab they can do so for security reasons. No society would consider it acceptable to allow its citizens to walk around in balaclavas or Klan hoods or any other article of clothing that hides the identity of the wearer.”

     I am sure this is one of the driving reasons for the Europeans to ban the burka.So you answer your own question. What is the problem?

    Unless you find me a religion or some such other construct that puts men in veils, there won’t be any talk of religious tolerance in my house.

  • guest

    “Finally, if European governments want to ban the burqa and hijab they can do so for security reasons. No society would consider it acceptable to allow its citizens to walk around in balaclavas or Klan hoods or any other article of clothing that hides the identity of the wearer.” 
     
     I am sure this is one of the driving reasons for the Europeans to ban the burka.So you answer your own question. What is the problem? 
     
    Unless you find me a religion or some such other construct that puts men in veils, there won’t be any talk of religious tolerance in my house on this topic.

  • guest

    other guest: you missed the whole point of the post. a government cannot say on the one hand that it’s open and tolerant and on the other ban religious clothing.  there’s no similar ban on orthodox jewish women covering their heads or nuns wearing wimples. the point is that allowing a person to wander around with her face obstructed (if the person under that veil is indeed a she) is a security risk.  All other arguments are absurd. 

  • AnnieCarmel

    I love, love, love Pat Condell.  Lucid as ever. 

  • HC123

    Love it. I live to offend Islamists.

    I am having a beer riiiight now, just to hear an Imam cry.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Nuns do no cover their faces, dingaling, nor do the Orthodox Jews.

    Don’t try again because you haven’t a clue.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Nuns do not cover their faces but their head, dingaling, nor do the Orthodox Jews. 
     
    Don’t try again because you haven’t a clue. You sound like another stupid bot who has done no research but only blathers on. Do shut up.

  • Ferd Berfle

    “there’s no similar ban on orthodox jewish women covering their heads or nuns wearing wimples. ”

    Wow, goober. A burqa obstructs the view; a veil does not.  A nun can be recognized; an orthodox Muslim woman cannot. You”re just another silly shill with too much time on your hands. Kindly shut up.

  • Diana L. C.

    Yes, indeed, I keep waiting for the Muslim world to come out of the Middle Ages, travel through the Renaissance and then the Enlightenment, work through the Industrial Revolution, and then become technologically advanced before any of this will iron itself out.  

    It would be great if there could be more assimilation of the younger Muslims.  I sort of like the idea of not allowing religious icons of any type in public schools, as they’re doing in France.  I totally believe in religious freedom, but public schools should be there to teach thinking for oneself.  They should be places to question and examine other points of view.  And they should provide superior education.  When immigrant parents see their children CAN succeed in the new culture and can do that better by assimilating, I just believe that parents of all types usually want their children to succeed.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I live to “offend” them, too, and they take offense at every little thing. I would recommend to all of them to get something approaching a sense of humor. Oops, humor is forbidden.

  • goldengrahme

    Who is this guy?  I’m in love!  Well said.  I made the same point some time ago
    on another blog when Islamic women defended their positions–one in only
    body cover and head scarf, one in full uniform with a very fetching veil.  I thought they wanted to call attention to themselves as separate and unequal (though they didn’t find irony in that concept).  Why don’t they go home?  Back to all that comforting oppression?  Oh, if they try to leave their loving spouces, it might result in a permanent headache–minus their head.  Now I understand.

    And can you say ‘honor killings’ in regard to girls who are raped or defiled,
    even by close relatives?

    I understand the full burqua originated in India among the very wealthy class
    as a status symbol.  Then it was adopted by all of Islam.  India was conquered
    by Islam many centuries ago; what we see now in constant ethnic and
    religious upheaval is the result.  So clothing, colors, etc. (like the tartan of
    Scotland) is a tribal distinction meant to draw cultural or battle lines.  Has nothing to do with saintliness.  Has all to do with maintaining ones’ clan identity.

    This is really very medieval.

  • AC

    Cheers!

  • J.J. (The Puma)

    If we were in Europe’s shoes we likely would not be so tolerant.  I have seen figures that suggest that Muslims will be a majority in many European countries in the not too distant future. What is happening there is more like an invasion of people who do not want to assimilate, and will become a threat in the future.

    Soon non-whites will outnumber whites in the United States.  But, that is a very different thing.  From blacks to Latinos to Asians we are talking about assimilated Americans who all share basic values about individual rights and the rule of western law.   When Muslims become a majority the rights of the individual and western traditions of due process will go out the window.

  • Craig Della Penna

    Agreed.

    Frankly, I would settle freedom from religion.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Soapbox again….

    I am sick of the “diversity” crowd insisting that the wearing of a burqa is the same as wearing a veil or a habit. It isn’t. A burqa is a walking prison for the women who wear them; a veil or habit isn’t. For all you muslim enablers, kindly put on the hot, goat-smelling burqa and leave it on until you pass out. Then go away. That you don’t understand the difference between them is on you and not the rest of us.

  • Diana L. C.

    Wow!  Where have I been?  I have never heard of this guy.  He’s good!  Take that all you traitors at NOW who actually threw your votes to O.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Yes, how many fully loaded nuns are running around?

  • My other site

    In response to Craig Della Penna’s remarks, I was thinking something very similar but I don’t know as much as he does about the subject.  I am starting to believe it’s a mistake to try to accommodate every culture and religion, etc. in any given society.  More and more in the U. S. we see people coming in who only care about making a lot of money any way they can.  They don’t want to be Americans, they don’t even like Americans.  Our society gets more fractured by the day with too many different cultures competing to control politics and society.

  • Trent

    You seem to know a lot about wearing burqas and habits.
    Do you do some secret ‘role playing’ every now and then, you know, for ‘research’ purposes? ;)

  • Ferd Berfle

    The entire issue of security is bogus, prima facie. The reason that burqas or any other headgear that obstructs the face are wrong is that we don’t require them of males. The rationalization, obfuscation, and diversion are stupid–just plain fucking stupid. Gee, I could be a guy wearing the stupid walking prison and get away with all sorts of mayhem. Security be damned–don’t treat women as third class. I mean really.

  • guest

    LOL and how appropriate.. PUT THE MUSLIM MEN IN BURKAS instead of banning it for their women.

  • My other site

    Hmm, like the illegal hispanics here.  An invasion of people who will become a majority and don’t want to assimilate.  I don’t know where you get that the blacks and hispanics are assimilated.  Lived in CA lately?  Florida?  Arizona?  As for blacks, all the trouble with black gangs is because they refuse to assimilate and live a productive middle class lifestyle,  it’s “Uncle Tom.”  They want to be different and they are working for the “revolution” when blacks will take over.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, I make girlie boys like you wear them so you understand the heat and goat smells emanating from within, putz.

  • Patti

    The fact is that burqas are a way to oppress women. Have you ever asked yourself why men don’t have to wear them? Yes, women are forced to wear them. Any women that claims it is her choice is lying and is afraid. Any law that frees women from the restrictions that men place on her is a good one.

  • Ferd Berfle

    My point, exactly, Patti. Thank you.

  • Trent

    “…wrong is that we don’t require them of males.”
    LOL
    Well, it’s a free country, go ahead and wear the darn thing! This is not Europe!!

  • Trent

    “…wrong is that we don’t require them of males”
    LOL
    Well, it’s a free country, go ahead and wear the darn thing!
    This is not Europe!

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, I make girlie boys like you, Trent, wear them so you understand the heat and goat smells emanating from within, putz.

  • Ferd Berfle

    So you like them, huh, Trent? Sounds like you’re a burqa drag queen, Chester. you go girl.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Low-rent Trent apparently likes him some women and in burqas, to boot. Apparently that is as close to seeing a real woman as he’ll ever get.

  • guest

    oh, make it black burkas like the women are made to wear and force the men to walk 20 miles in the hot desert sun everyday.

  • Ferd Berfle

    LOL and how appropriate.. PUT THE MUSLIM MEN IN BURKAS instead of banning it for their women.
    =======================
    Wow, you’re not with it, Goob. The way to stop it is to make the male wear the fucker. It would stop in a Mecca microsecond.

  • FrenchNail

    Michelle, Thanks very much for that youtube.

    There is SO MUCH I would like to say on the subject, but this is Easter Monday, and I do not want to get all upset.

    And where did you get the idea of Resistance, if I may ask…

  • guest

    That was my point.. to stop it is to force the men to wear it.

  • oowawa

    Perhaps those who oppose the wearing of burqas would feel differently if they were aware what a sheikh (sp?) fashion statement they make.  The essence of feminine charm is mystery, and what could be more mysterious than a billowing tent of fabric, drifting along like a colorful spirit?  I refer the curious to this site, and offer this beautiful example of the camo burqa, practical for formal wear in a desert war zone:

  • Ferd Berfle

    Then I stand corrected, guest.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Oh, oowawa, she’s a hottie, all right. Katmoon is going to kill me for this.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Oh, oowawa, she’s a hottie, all right. Katmoon is going to kill me for ogling her.

  • Ferd Berfle

    You’re no Renaissance man, are you, Trench?

  • oowawa

    Oh yes,  I forgot to mention that these burqas are available in various flag colors, for patriotic ladies.  In addition to the flag colors of Turkey and Afghanistan, burqas in the colors of western countries are also available–such as Turkey and France, and, yes, the good old U.S.A.:

  • guest

    You have special powers to see through that thing which Katmoon may find very attractive. You’re a SUPERMAN!

  • oowawa

    Oh yes,  I forgot to mention that these burqas are available in various flag colors, for patriotic ladies.  In addition to the flag colors of Turkey and Afghanistan, burqas in the colors of western countries are also available–such as Denmark and France, and, yes, the good old U.S.A.:

  • Docelder

    The Europeans have grown increasingly worried about the inability of some Muslim immigrant communities to assimilate.- Yes, and let’s be honest here. If people have no intent to assimilate why would any country want to take them in to begin with? If there won’t be contributions to the larger society… If the intent is to form a separate island nation within the original nation, then that is simply destructive to the host nation. We need to embrace the same idea in this nation. Integrate or go home. We have enough internal issues without importing more of them.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Damn, it looks like a coccoon. Does a butterfly emerge at some point or just a moth?

  • Docelder

    The Europeans have grown increasingly worried about the inability of some Muslim immigrant communities to assimilate.- Yes, and let’s be honest here. If people have no intent to assimilate why would any country want to take them in to begin with? If there won’t be contributions to the larger society… If the intent is to form a separate island nation within the host nation, then that is plainly destructive and divisive to the host nation. We need to embrace the same idea in this nation. Integrate or go home. We have enough internal issues without importing more of them.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Does this one turn into a Monarch or a Viceroy?

  • Ferd Berfle

    You are talking through your arse again, gust (sp intentional)

  • FrenchNail

    OK, I am plunging in….

    The burqua is a symbol of Islam like no other. Seeing a woman in Burqua in Europe is the symbol of the islamisation of Europe. For each caucasian child born there, there is 8 mulsims children born citizen of Europe, future voters.

    It is the visible sign of future domination. And we HATE it.

    It also is the isolation of women as not other. A woman isolated is much more likely to be submitted to the up of ten/twelve pregnancies in her life rather than a educated and assimilated one.

  • Wow

     More and more in the U. S. we see people coming in who only care about making a lot of money any way they can.

    Uh, isn’t that called the American dream?

  • guest

    Fred: you’re a moron.  there are european governments calling to ban headscarves too.  idiot

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, Doc, the Muslims can stay where they are if they don’t want to assimiliate–period. I’m not here to placate them or kowtow to their “religious” needs. They can just stay home.

  • Ferd Berfle

    It is the visible sign of future domination. And we HATE it.
    ================================
    For lack of a better response, “Then DO something”. I don’t know how the continent is anymore since I was last there in the 70s, but for God’s sake, don’t let them shove you out.

    DO SOMETHING.

  • guest

    Fred: once again you proudly demonstrate you’re a complete moron.  THE SECURITY ISSUE IS THAT A MAN COULD BE DISGUISED BY A BURQA OR THE NIQAB.  do you have reading comprehension issues?

  • guest

    I am not this guest..

  • Ferd Berfle

    Gust (guest):
    Aside from the fact that you are dyslexic (my moniker is Ferd), it is you who is the moron. You miss my point, stupid.

  • guest

    It is all about subjugation — making poor and vulnerable women more weak so that they can be controlled better. The reformation has to come from within and from the Muslim men. Where the hell are they?

  • AC

    It’s a moth.

  • guest

    I am not this guest. I would never call anyone moron or idiot..

  • oowawa

    Lately I have been reading Burton’s translation of the “One Thousand and One Nights,” also known as “Arabian Nights.”  The misogyny  of the culture it expresses is horrifying.  Women are livestock, to be used and punished (and slain) as men deem fit.  This world-view is in extreme conflict with our modern world.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Administrator:

    Can we rid this site of “Guest” monikers. It is already cumbersome to reply with the new site application and even worse when we take a “guest” to task, particularly when there are several to choose from and all are probably the same troll working the middle from both ends.

    Please fix this.

  • Ferd Berfle

    So use a name, any name other than “guest”.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Which guest are you, coward? Are you Trent, the burqa-loving boh or the Obamabot? Come out of the guest closet, freak.

  • AC

    Maybe Muslim men’s secrete desire is to wear the burqua–anyway how the hell does one know what gender lurks thereunder.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Which guest are you, coward? Are you Trent, the burqa-loving boy or the Obamabot? Come out of the guest closet, you freak.

  • Ferd Berfle

    OK, I’ll bite, guest. I agree. If the men are not willing to change, there will be no reformation of Islam.

  • guest

    I object to your characterization. I am not that other guest.

  • Ferd Berfle

    This world-view is in extreme conflict with our modern world.
    ======================
    It certainly is, oowawa. They are still living in 7th century Arabia. It would be as though the West still practiced feudalism, complete with serfs and slaves. Oops.

    I do not have high hopes for the Islamic culture at all.

  • AC

    I second Ferd’s proposal.  It is not much to ask for someone to comment under an alias not already in use (or their real name. or they can incorporate and be two people) –the guest commenter’s defeat the personal aspect of interaction which, I’m certain Larry Johnson (the owner) encourages.
    That’s my three cents.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I object to your characterization. I am not that other guest
    =====================
    Irrelevant since your name is the same as the other name. You are either the same guest or another but you are still guest and we cannot discern the difference. Your name must go.

  • AC

    gues[t] not

  • Ferd Berfle

    Agreed, AC

  • guest

    Write posts about why it is that Muslim men don’t want to reform. What the hell is going on in their bird-brains when they force their women to wear black burkas in 100 degree weather? It is tiresome to read the same old, same old about the contradiction in tolerance and no tolerance about governments.

  • oowawa

    Yes, Ferd, I agree.  “Guest,” you illustrate part of the problem.  Not everyone who posts as “guest” is a “troll”–not at all.  It is simply a default “name” for an anonymous poster.  I agree with Ferd that it would be less confusing if the “guest” default were eliminated.  Most of us are often being sarcastic, saying things that are the opposite of what we really want to imply, and so when this rhetorical technique is mixed up with multiple “guest” identities, it becomes extra difficult to decipher what is really meant by the poster.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Actually oowawa, I prefer jeans and t-shirt.
     
    You know if you’ve got it you may as well flaunt it! ;)

  • guest

    I am wearing burka..

  • guest

    I am wearing a burka and can’t take it off.

  • AC

    Evidently you’ve never stayed at a Holliday Inn.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I am wearing a burka and can’t take it off.
    ============================
    LMAO. Well, at least you’re funny.

  • guest

    There is a good guest and a bad guest on this thread.

  • AC

    overruled as nonspecific/unidentifiable and therefore irrelevant

  • AC

    guest’s objection is overruled as nonspecific, unidentifiable and has no standing because Non Compos Mentis

  • Freedom Fighter

    Why does it matter? You should be responding to the message not the messenger. I think that’s the problem with most of the people here. Even though Obama is a progressive like themselves, they cannot support his policies because of who he is. If Hillary Clinton were president and advocating the exact same policies (ex: health care mandates), the people here would be all for it. I guess that makes you folks hypocrites.

  • getfitnow

    Last I heard, chages were reduced.

  • SAINTIXE

    After reading Nail Them up and other US comments on teh Burqa ban, it is clear that their outrage is missing the essential cultural point. US history starts when-1776 , 1607 Jameston or 1492, what is relevant for an american as feelings of belongings, attachments to historical figures from his own home turf are dated from at the earliest 1492. Well 1492 is already 1000 years rich of French history, in between we have Chlodwig our very first king and Chlotilde his queen and she was a tough cookie, we have a few merovingian queens who took No for an answer and teh story does not stop here. Womanhood as an assertive social group, we know it.Our children are taught Joan of ARC, Jeanne Hachette, warriors, machiavelous queens, white virtuous queen-mothers etc etc, you get the gist of it. None of those wore a veil hiding their face, veils on their heads as was the fashion of their days maybe, but nothing hiding the face. Later on, shameless royal mistresses or  Nobel Prizes, they showed their faces to the world and enjoyed the sun rays. This is nothing to do with tolerance or religion, this is our world. Muslims from North Africa wear a veil on their hair, and we do not comment on that. But face is an essential part of us. I accept that in Djeddah, I may wear a veil but not on my own turf. If I see a veiled woman, I lock my eyes not on her, poor drar, but on the Paleolithic man strutting in my street 3metres ahead of her until, he lowers his eyes. He is offending me and all the women of my country, and my female ancestors and their male counterparts.
    Be tolerant is easy, when you have 500ys of age, we have 1500ys and more.
    On a lighter note, I encourage the hardy reader to learn more about France before 800. Shock and awe and fabciful names. In those days, you died young but true, you were not faint hearted.

  • Ferd Berfle

    There is a good guest and a bad guest on this thread.
    =======================
    Well, duh. However, if I make a matrix of guest versus comments, I still have but one guest, huh? So which guest is which? It is already asymptotic with the guest axis. Find a *real* moniker. You could try “Yo mamma” or “Yo daddy” or even “yo guest”. I don’t frankly give a tinker’s cuss.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Overruled–LMAO. I love it.

  • AC

    guest’s objection is overruled as nonspecific, unidentifiable and has no standing because it is Non Compos Mentis

  • Craig Della Penna

    Point of Information here:

    The Muslims were originally ‘taken in’ (welcomed actually) by businesses because they would work for almost nothing instead of the more expensive French and German workers they replaced.

    Naturally when it comes time to pay the bill (culturally speaking) business is nowhere to be seen and the rest of society is left to clean up their mess – sound familiar?

  • Noogan

    These are interesting issues. I wonder: How many people would support a Constitutional Amendment to the Constitution declaring English as our national language? 

    Many municipalities are considering just such ordinances. One reason I’ve read lately is that it is increasingly difficult for local law enforcement to do its job when they are attempting to do it in different languages. And, some localities are asserting that English as a national language increases the probabilities that immigrants will assimilate into American culture more quickly. Indeed, in some regions/cities/municipal areas, there are entire sections which cannot be visited by American citizens by virtue of cultural and language barriers. Are we to imagine that this is appropriate?

    Personally, I support an amendment to the Constitution making English the Official Language of the United States; no more ballots in 6 different languages; no more street signs in different languages; no more duplicates of all government documents in numerous languages. 

    Religious freedom in this country is sacrosanct; CONSTITUTIONAL. For the US to seek to interfere in religious freedom under the First Amendment to the Constitution is anathema to me. 

    But a Constitutional Amendment making English our official national language is both necessary and appropriate, given the cultural and security needs of this country today. 

  • EllenD

    Over Easter and Passover, Colbert and Stewart made fun of both. I’m waiting for the same treatment of Ramadan.

  • oowawa

    It’s sad to think about it, but I imagine some miserable women caught in an untenable situation, caught between a husband or father who demands that they wear a burqa, and a national law that demands that they do not.  They’ll be damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.  And of course, it will be their fault.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Dry your sorry ass up, FF. No one here is ninterested in the slightest in your sophomoric claptrap.

  • EllenD

    India was conquered  
    by Islam many centuries ago; what we see now in constant ethnic and  
    religious upheaval is the result.

    Actully the millions of Muslims in Idia appear to be the most resistant to Al Quaeda and the least fundamentalist.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Dry your sorry ass up, FF. No one here is interested in the slightest in your sophomoric claptrap and juvenile blather. You are a bot and That One is your profit (sp intentional).

  • oowawa

    “What the hell is going on in their bird-brains”

    I think what’s going on is religious belief and hundreds of years of tradition . . .

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, SAINTIXE, but the Moorish Spain was a far better place than the realm that replaced it. Think Torquemada.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, SAINTIXE, but the Moorish Spain was a far better place than the realm that replaced it. Think Torquemada.

    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Muslims or people of color bartered for jobs dictating they would work for a lower wage!

  • AC

    Like your comment Noogan, but I personally am leery of Constitutional Amendments.  A statue that declares American English as the official language of documentation and any governmental function and or literature would suffice.
    This would be enough to encourage newcomers to learn as all other before them.
    If we make English the official language does that mean I can’t write “my bad”? 

  • Buzzlatte

    No one asked you, FF.  Hate to irritate your own narcissism, but no one cares about your opinion of what might happen should if…blah, blah, blah.

    No one supports Obama because he IS who he is.  There’s a distinction.

  • EllenD

    “Guest” is our burqua. Who knows what it is hiding?

  • guest

    Yes and no. If you look at only the labels in your matrix, yes, you see only one guest. But if you delve deeper and look at the substance of the comments you see the guest you agree with and the guest you want to call a goob.

  • AnnieCarmel

    Look him up on youtube…he has many commentaries.  Pat Cordell’s reasoning makes my heart sing.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Even a woman in a burka could make a better pitch than this one!

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0410/play_ball_716e9eab-fd1c-4f23-a4f6-2663250f8b04.html

    Missed by a mile.

  • EllenD

    Any country that produced Marie Curie has my admiration.

  • J.J. (The Puma)

    It is my view that the overwhelming majority of Mexicans who come here, legally or not, want a part of the American dream and are no different than the Italians or Germans who came before them.  It often takes a generation to assimilate in language and culture. But, I think that is what they want for their children.

    Signed,

    A proud grandson of an illegal Italian immigrant

  • Diana L. C.

    Craig, yes government freedom from religion.  But, as for myself, I am very happy I was raised by my religious family.  Ours was a good, gentle, character building, ethical training.  And the stories of the Bible did much to help me understand right from wrong.  In addition, without that background, I wouldn’t have been able to understand must of Western literature throughout its entire canon.  One thing we English teachers often noticed was that students with religious backgrounds (who were not fundamental) could understand literature far better than those with no background in religion or “mythology.”

  • AnnieCarmel

    oowawa, if you aren’t careful, the fashion world is going to pick this up for the PC dress code…replacing the face masks shown in one of the fashion shows featured in the NYT last year which actually garnered comments that the masks were a great take off on “Ethnic trends”.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Indeed, AC, I don’t like Amendments, either, unless they are for a good cause. I belive  one such cause if communication. If we allow languages other than English to be used, then we will begin the failure to communicate scenario. Translators should be readily available but the “official” language of the courts, etc. should be English. I am not enamored of it, but I really see no viable, functioning alternative. We already know what happens when our own language is fractured, nevermind multiple languages.

  • oowawa

    I don’t think Colbert & Stewart have the nerve to risk being added to the Salman Rushdie honor roll . . .

  • Ferd Berfle

    Indeed, AC. But in this case, I am compelled to think that English should be made the official language, with obvious caveats, including court proceedings. We have enough trouble with our very own English language and its fracturing by the dittoheads. Heaven help us if they get a second language in which to lie.

  • Diana L. C.

    I used to say that about having babies, too.  ;)

  • Ferd Berfle

    Substance, schmubstance and you’re equivocating, to boot. Guest is guest and your “kind” of “guest” can be trolled, too. You havae no leg to stand on.

  • oowawa

    Hmmmm–bunny costume is my burqa, I guess . . . but I’m glad my wife doesn’t make me go out in public like this . . .

  • Ferd Berfle

    Substance, schmubstance and you’re equivocating, to boot. Guest is guest and your “kind” of “guest” can be trolled, too. You have no leg rational leg to stand on. How do I know that you aren’t spoofing yourself? Or that the other “guest” isn’t spoofing you. My matrix stands and your comment is irrelevant.

  • Diana L. C.

    Ferd, cool down!  I believe Trent was joking, thus the wink icon.

  • FembotsForObama

    This is a great video!  No society should accept this form of imprisonment.  It truly is the great political fight of the world since there is a slow encroachment into all modern societies.   It’s that simple.

    It is NOT merely a choice to wear the burka.  There is huge misunderstanding among liberals as to what the burka is … most are under the delusion that it’s akin to the headscarf, not the head to toe covering that severely limits the woman’s view, disabling her ability to have free movement, and hence making her completely reliant upon a male escort to do anything.  This is a state that no woman would choose. 

    Yes, I totally agree ALL feminists should be fighting this atrocity.  When the Afhani Taleban took over in the 1990′s many feminist groups (NOW) fought the atrocities of the Taleban take-over mainly because women were forced to wear the BURKA or face death.   Feminists lobbied Congress strongly and protested loudly the rounding up of women (many who had been professionals and govt workers) and killing those who refused to comply with Taleban rules.  They were killed simply because they refused to wear the burqa and be forced to beg in the streets for food.  

    Then we had a dumb feminist — I’m talking about you Naomi Wolf — write that women actually feel sexy underneath these things, and that she felt a sense of empowerment from being hidden from public view.  This was about the time that our own POTUS made his loud declaration in JOrdan that it was his job to ensure that women’s rights were supported by helping those women to wear the hijab in open society.  [As we all know here, the hijab or head covering, is not the burqa.] 

    How much more pretzel logic do we have to endure before we are willing to take a stand?

  • foxyladi14

    I feel sorry for those women

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yeah, but bunnies don’t wear pineapple undergarments, as it were.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I would recommend wearing the thing inside out and upside down. That’d fix ‘em.

  • Ferd Berfle

    That One is true.
    Eso es verdad.

    Horrible, don’t you think?

  • Mirlo

    We, here in Europe, don’t talk about assimilation of immigrants, because this would be giving up the immigrants identity. Integration is our aim, it is what we work for.  Integration allows change on both sides, we learn from them, they learn from us and hence we allow enrichment of cultures on both sides.

    It is furthermore very true that many women are forced to wear burqa etc. I have personally worked with several muslim women who had not been allowed to dress as they wanted to and suffered greatly because of it.

    The prohibtion of wearing burqa in public does not solve the grave problem that the mutilation of genitals present, that’s true, but should this keep us from setting a bottom line against unhealthy, unnatural, opressive way of forcing women to dress. Don’t you bash us Europeans for working against misogyny!

  • AnnieCarmel

     OK, here it is again.  I’ve posted this in the past and it’s shocking how fast it’s moving.  These percentages are from 2007.  It would be interesting to know how much has changed in 3 years.

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    The Muslim’s plan is to migrate to new countries and breed. When you have enough, make cultural and legal demands then take over the country. Read this excellent article from the “Freedom’s Enemies” site:
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called “religious rights.”
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to “the reasonable” Muslim demands for their “religious rights,” they also get the other components under the table.
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007).
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–> <!–[endif]–>
    As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
    <!–[if !supportEmptyParas]–>

  • Diana L. C.

    FF, your contention that we are  ”progressive like Obama” is another example of your use of stereotypes.  All Republicans are the same to you.  All Democrats are the same, as far as you little mind can think.  All “progressives” are the same.  We like, I think, to be individuals on this site.  I, for one, may hold some so-called “progressive” ideals, but I do not in any way like the “progressives’” unelthical tactics used by the current POTUS and his minions.  I still hold to the idea that the ends do not justify the mean.  And, on the other hand, I am not very “progressive” when it comes to finances.

    Go try to picture people as individuals and not the little Lego men and women you play with.

  • oowawa

    LOL Onofre, looks like he got confused for a moment & thought he was shooting a basket . . .

  • Ferd Berfle

    How much more pretzel logic do we have to endure before we are willing to take a stand?
    ================================
    I’ve taken a stand as has my wife. But then we’re old and don’t matter. It would seem that feminism to the younger set means acting as irresponsibly as their male counterparts.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Go try to picture people as individuals and not the little Lego men and women you play with.
    =======================
    It is above his pay grade of obamabot, second-class, Diana.

  • Diana L. C.

    SAINTIXE, I hope you understand that many American womenon this site, without your country’s long history do have a long cultural history that is similar, from the home countries of our immigrant mothers, grandmother, great-grandmothers, etc.

    I understand completely because my ancestors also gave their women faces, though I was born American and love America and its history.

  • I’m a Linda too

    “Maybe that can be the new slogan: In a public place, you must show your face.”

    …very good

    Also, on the heals of Rep cohen-D-TN latest outrageous comments on Tea Partyers, I thought I would make a tshirt for the upcoming Tea Party that reads,

    This is a face
    of a Tea Partyer,


    No name calling
    just say THANK YOU!

    What do you think?

  • Diana L. C.

    AC, “my bad” is a perfectly good American English idiom.

  • Ferd Berfle

    The Muslims were originally ‘taken in’ (welcomed actually)
    ====================
    Yeah, and so were the Europeans by the Native Americans and we all know how that turned out for the natives.

    But you are correct, Craig.

  • Diana L. C.

    And it could get them killed.

  • I’m a Linda too

    “Maybe that can be the new slogan: In a public place, you must show your face.”

    …very good

    Also, on the heals of Rep cohen-D-TN latest outrageous comments on Tea Partyers, I thought I would make a tshirt for the upcoming Tea Party that reads,

     

    This is a face
    of a Tea Partyer,

    No name calling
    just say THANK YOU!

    What do you think?

  • AC

    How about French Fries?

  • Ferd Berfle

    See comment below. He is a troll.

  • Diana L. C.

    Mirlo–I think most on this site are with you on working against misogyny.

  • Ani

    For the one hundredth time — what just passed is not remotely what Hillary wanted for health care — so you cannot compare what she would be mandating to this mess — it is ridiculous to say that these two people would govern the same way — her health care plan was entirely different.  In fact, the meme going around now is that this is the Republican version of Hillarycare from 1993. 

    She wanted people to be able to purchase insurance across state lines and to be able to opt in to the exact same plan Congress has.  None of this “okay for thee but not for me nonsense.”  She also wanted to import cheaper drugs.  That’s just three items off the top of my head — her plan also came out to be a lot cheaper than the one Obama advocated.  It is a false premise to compare these two people.  Her comment on Obamacare’s passage was so cryptic it was almost funny — “just wait till people see what they have done with health care!”  Yuh.  No kidding.

  • Yttik

    I can understand the reluctance to get behind a government banning religious clothing, banning anything actually. The US comes to mind, the party of tolerance and diversity is always trying to ban the ten commandments in public buildings, ban trans fat, ban smoking, ban guns….stop it already with all the banning.

    As to banning veils, yes, I think it is a bit of a sham. It’s political grandstanding, it’s not going to help women one bit. Those oppressed at home will simply be prevented from leaving the house. Those who defy the ban will probably be fined or persecuted farther. Nothing like punishing women for their own oppression.

    But all that said, absolutely, governments need to draw a line in the sand somewhere and things like burkas are a symbol of women’s oppression.

  • goodguest

    Go easy on me, Ferd because I like you.

  • sowsear

    “Religious freedom” can cover a lot of territory!

  • AC

    Buona giornata J.J.

  • AC

    Children assimilate in about 3 to 6 months–that’s my experience.

  • AC

    I’m surprised no bot has insisted it was for an intentional walk.

  • sowsear

    And I fear for our culture…fading fast.
    DO SOMETHING.
    We’re fighting many wars at the moment.

  • AC

    You go girl!

  • AC

    Yea but I use a hoe in my garden.

  • AC

    Yea but, may I use a hoe in my garden.

  • confused American

    On top of it being a prison for the woman wearing it…It disguises who is wearing it…
    Sorry the Burka ban  is right for too many reasons.

  • Craig Della Penna

    Hmmm..

    A cautionary tale?

  • jbjd

    Whoa!  One never knows what one will learn here at NQ.
    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/2007/06/burqas_vs_bikin.html

  • FrenchNail

    I did I left!!!!

  • Docelder

    Well, in medieval times people living in the desert probably benefitted from wearing medieval desert garb. But since these aren’t medieval times and since these folks aren’t living in deserts, but in modern communities with modern security concerns… well I see no need to allow any of this. Integrate or go home period.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Nicely done, goodguest, I’ll lay off.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yea but, may I use a hoe in my garden.
    =========================
    LMAO. And a spade by any other name is not a shovel but a fram implement. Funny how the language changes depending on context, which means that one must really know it. We might lose a bit of that in a multi-lingual culture.

  • FrenchNail

    The issue as I see it after having read the thread, is that everybody consider the Burqua a religious item. IT IS NOT. Give a reference in the Koran prescribing it and then we’ll talk.

    It is an instrument of gender submission and as such should be fought and forbidden as much as female circumcision or polygamy.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Yea but, may I use a hoe in my garden. 
    ========================= 
    LMAO. And a spade by any other name is not only a shovel but a playing card and a farm implement. Funny how the language changes depending on context, which means that one must really have more than a passing knowledge of it. We might lose a bit of that in a multi-lingual culture.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Spot on, FrenchNail. There is no reference I can locate.

  • Ferd Berfle

    A burkini? Wow, that would appear to be a contradiction in terms and it surely looks it.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Me-chelle can wear one, too. Maybe that’ll make her proud.

  • sowsear

    Yes, when threy go to Baby Daddy’s home country

  • Ferd Berfle

    Even though Obama is a progressive like themselves, they cannot support his policies because of who he is.
    ==============================
    Exactly–because he’s progressively and aggressively a liar and a con man. Yep, you’re right for once, Freedumb.

  • sowsear

    Yes, when they go to Baby Daddy’s home country

  • goldengrahme

    Ellen, here is a brief summary of recent Hindu/Muslim violence in
    India.  It just points up how religion and politics become a flash point for the basic separatism plaguing the human condition.  It isn’t only militant Islam, of course, but at this point in history, Muslims seem destined to trigger unrest and/or bloodshed wherever they land. 
    In India they are the minority and the Hindus want them out.  I
    don’t think it’s too off base to say if they were the majority, India
    would be less free and more prone to fundamentalism.  It is
    the freedom that eventually overcomes ignorance.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week538/cover.html

  • sowsear

    How about a chastity belt for men…

  • Ferd Berfle

    It would go with the Early American Couch style she wears, too.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Frankly, I would settle freedom from religion.
    =================================

    I see your point and agree, Craig. In many ways freedom from religion is an excellent option. I claim no religion and am therefore able to believe any way I so choose. I don’t wear religion as a badge but as my own personal business not subject to discussion.

  • sowsear

    If “guest” monikers persist, we could ignore them…

  • donjo

    I think we need a bi-partisanship effort in the US Congress, the UN, the European union, not to mention the far east, to mandate that every man, woman, child, and anything in-between be required to wear a Burqua.  If some people are forced to wear it, then we should show solidarity by ALL wearing it. 

  • Ferd Berfle

    Fred: once again you proudly demonstrate you’re a complete moron.  THE SECURITY ISSUE IS THAT A MAN COULD BE DISGUISED BY A BURQA OR THE NIQAB.  do you have reading comprehension issues?
    ==============================
    Which part of the forced wearing of a burqa is wrong that I commented on before did you not understand, troll? God, you bots are so challenged in the area of reading comprehension that I’ surprised you have any ability to comment here at all. If your medula oblongata were as small as your cerebrum, you would cease breathing.

  • sowsear

    http://www.floppingaces.net/2010/04/04/president-obama-taking-the-christ-out-of-easter/#comments
    Here is one comment
    Patvann 1<img style=”cursor: pointer;” src=”http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/reply-to/reply.png” title=”Reply to this comment” alt=”Reply to this comment”/>  

    And had he taken all references to Mohamed out of his Ramadan message last year, and included Jews and Christians in it would the Moslem leadership stayed quiet?
    No. In fact he made sure he sugar-coated the hell out of THAT message…In fact, putting “Islam” above his watered-down “family of man”, (and all known evidence)
    These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.
    Yeah. Justice, tolerance and dignity. Per Islam….Uh huh.
    But he has no trouble lumping the 2 most important celebrations of the planet’s 2 other major religions together, even though they have nothing to do with eachother, and throws Hindi (What, no Buddhism?) into the mess, as well.
    To include Islam is nothing more than him kissing ass, while knowing how little Americans know about Islam vis a vis it’s teaching’s concerning Jews, Christians, and all other “unbelievers”.
    Yeah Bamster…right back attcha.

  • Ferd Berfle

    That sounds like one of those two-fers. You wear one in case his/hers breaks.

  • Scranton4Hillary

    ROFLMAO!!

  • oowawa

    “I keep waiting for the Muslim world to come out of the Middle Ages, travel through the Renaissance and then the Enlightenment, work through the Industrial Revolution, and then become technologically advanced before any of this will iron itself out.”

    Right, Diana.  Problem is, they’re going to become technologically advanced without the mindset much progressing beyond the Middle Ages.  Mullahs with H-Bombs.  Yep, that’s scary . . .

  • Senneth

    Yes Craig, I agree.  However, this is a good step, in my opinion.  My family came here from The Netherlands years and years ago, but we still have family over there, and there is increasing fear that this culture is overtaking theirs.  Again, I find myself in total disagreement with this author.  Women who are raised in a polluted environment cannot recognize when they’re in a non-toxic one.  I applaud Belgium and all the other European countries who are finally taking a stand.

  • AC

    “She wore an itsi, bitsi, teeny, weeny, yellow, polka dot burkini.”

    It may work after all.

  • AC

    How about a chastity belt for men..
    *************************
    That called having a bitch for a girlfriend.

  • Diana L. C.

    Yep, years ago my brother worked for a company that sent him to Quwait to train them on the “governors” they had purchased from his company.  He ended up being there for three months before he couldn’t stand it anymore.  The company sent a replacement, and then my brother had to go back.  The problem was that they had no background to be trained.  Their background made them think that by buying the equipment they were also buying people to run it.

    It is pretty frightening to have poorly trined people using technology.  They may be able to learn a few operating processes, but when the knowledge has to go deeper, that’s when the lack of knowledge becomes really deadly. 

    That is why I included the entire century’s long journey that they needed to take and refused to take.  It’s discouraging.  There’s a whole lot of philosophical and scientific thought that they have to grasp and there’s not much inclination to do so.

  • Senneth

    Thank you, thank you for posting this video.  Exactly what he said.  As for where are the feminists – it’s too scary of a topic for groups to address this, after all, they may be called racists.

  • AC

    French Nail,
    I for one have never referred to it a religious item.  It might make sense in a  sandstorm but that’s about it.  

    Look, it’s male domination plain and simple.
    As with orientals that bound womens feet so that  that they had to walk behind men because  it was so painful to walk.

  • oowawa

    A discussion of the scriptural basis for women’s head covering is given on this site, as well as counterarguments against it.  The following graphic appears on the site–pretty cool, I think:

  • sowsear
  • Diana L. C.

    Of course you can use a hoe in your garden.  And if you want to use a “ho” in your garden, pay her more than her pimp will give her.

  • AnnieCarmel

    This was taken from an article from “Freedom’s Enemies” site.  The Muslim’s plan is to immigrate and breed.  When there are enough in a given country, make cultural and legal demands then take over. 
    Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult.  It is a complete system.
    Islam has a religious, legal, political, economic and military components.  The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
    Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called “religious rights.”
    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to “the reasonable” Muslim demands for “religious rights”, “they also get the other components under the table.
    Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007).

    As long as the Muslim population remans around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone.  If fact, they may be featured in articles and films stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
    USA – Muslim 1%
    Australia – 1.5%
    Canada – Muslim 1%-2%
    China – Muslim 1% – 2%
    Italy – Muslim 1.5%
    Norway – Muslim 1.8%

    At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
    Denmark – Muslim 2%
    Germany – Muslim 3.7%
    UK – Muslim 2.7%
    Spain – Muslim 4%
    Thailand – 4.6%

    From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
    They will push for the introduction of halaal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims.  They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves along with threats for failure to comply. (USA).
    France – Muslim 8% Actually over 11% since this was published.
    Phillippines – Muslim 5%
    Sweden – Muslim 5%
    Switzerland – Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands – Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad and Tobago  – Muslim 5.8%
    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia (they have promoted this in their Minnisota communities), the Islamic Law.  The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Shaira over the entire world. 
    When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris – car burnings), Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam – cartoons).
    Guyana – Muslim 10%
    India – Muslim 13.4%
    Israel – Muslim 16%
    Kenya – Muslim 10%
    Russia – Muslim 10-15%
    After reaching 20 % expect hair-trigger rioting, hihad militia formations, sporadit killings and church and synagogue burning.

    Ethiopia – Muslim 32.8%
    At 40% you will find widespread massacr, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
    Bosnia – Muslm 40%
    Chad – Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon – Muslim 59/7%
    From 60% you may expec unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels.
    Albania – Muslim 70%
    Malaysia – Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar – Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan – Muslim 70%

    After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
    Bangladesh – Muslim 83%
    Egypt – Muslim 90%
    Gaza – Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia – Muslim 86.1%
    Iran – Muslim 98%
    Iraq – Muslim 92%
    Jordan – Muslim 92%
    Morocco – Muslim 98.7%
    Pakistan – Muslim 97%
    Palestine – Muslim 99%
    Syria – Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan – Muslim 90%
    Turkey – Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates – Muslim 96%

    100% will usher in the peace of “Dar-es-Salaam” – the Islamic House of Peace…there’s supposed to be peace because everyone is a Muslim.
    Afghanistan – Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia – Muslim 100%
    Somalia – Muslim 100%
    Yemen – Muslim 99.9%
    Of course, that’s not the case.  To satisfy their bllod lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.  The one uniting canon is that they all hate the infidel.

    It’s good to remember that in many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity.  Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.  Therefore they exercise more poser than their national average would indicate.

  • AnnieCarmel

    It would be interesting if we could see how they have increased their numbers in some of the Western countries in tha past 3 years.  The UK in particular is threatened with 10,000 taking to the streets to riot if they dispute what the Muslims…and we have pockets of demands here in the USA…

    Wasn’t the monster who beheaded his wife demanding he be tried under Sharia?

  • AnnieCarmel

    It would be interesting if we could see how they have increased their numbers in some of the Western countries in tha past 3 years.  The UK in particular is threatened with 10,000 taking to the streets to riot if they dispute what Muslims demand…and we have pockets of demands here in the USA… 
     
    Wasn’t the monster who beheaded his wife demanding he be tried under Sharia?

  • AC

    How about a chastity belt for men…
    **************************
    A picture of Michelle would do it or me.

  • Senneth

    Oh please, second gues.  Why don’t you go wear a burka this summer.  Yours is a specious argument.

  • AC

    Thanks Diana L.C.
    See, I don’t even know how to spell dis langage enny moor.

  • Senneth

    Thank you, Ferd.  I, too, am sick of this specious and immoral argument from the “diversity” crowd.  As a former state NOW president I am constantly disappointed feminists groups are not addressing this issue more.  But then after the 2008 primaries and their capitulation to That Won I guess it’s not surprising.  No More Burqas!

  • AC

    goodguest,
    Like you moniker

  • Senneth

    Exactly what my European relatives tell me.  They hate it.  Don’t want to be part of the culture and assimilate, go home.

  • jbjd

    MftR, I don’t know who you are but, let me just tell you what your video of Pat Condell has done to me.  More than 1 (one) hour ago, I began watching his videos on YouTube.  DID YOU HEAR THAT?  I SAID, MORE THAN ONE HOUR AGO!  Now, say you are sorry.  (Please.)

  • Senneth

    French Nail,
    read the book Caliphate about the time when the Muslims take over Europe, it’s sci-fi, with some disturbing statistics in the back of the book which talk about the differing birth rates between the Europeans and Muslims.  It also states in the appendix that many people simply leave rather than fight for their country.  Understandable of course.  My family is also an immigrant family.  However, if citizens don’t take a stand in their own lands and relinquish them without challenge, the outcome is asssured.

  • Senneth

    Go Diana LC!  Love your response to FF.

  • Breeze

    EllenD,

    I hate to correct you but Marie Curie was POLISH.

    ———————————————————————————————-

    Marie Skłodowska–Curie<img src=”http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Mariecurie.jpg/225px-Mariecurie.jpg”/>
    Born7 November 1867(1867-11-07)
    Warsaw, Vistula Land, Russian EmpireDied4 July 1934 (aged 66)
    Passy, France
    CitizenshipRussian, later FrenchNationalityPolishFieldsphysics, chemistryInstitutionsUniversity of ParisAlma materUniversity of Paris
    ESPCIDoctoral advisorHenri BecquerelDoctoral studentsAndré-Louis Debierne
    Óscar Moreno
    Marguerite Catherine PereyKnown forradioactivity, polonium, radiumNotable awardsNobel Prize in Physics (1903)
    Davy Medal (1903)
    Matteucci Medal (1904)
    Nobel Prize in Chemistry (1911)Notes
    She is the only person to win Nobel Prizes in two sciences.
    She was the wife of Pierre Curie, and the mother of Irene Joliot-Curie and Ève Curie.
    Marie Skłodowska Curie (7 November 1867 – 4 July 1934) was a physicist and chemist of Polish upbringing and subsequent French citizenship. She was a pioneer in the field of radioactivity and the first person honored with two Nobel Prizes — in physics and chemistry. She was also the first woman professor at the University of Paris.

    She was born Maria Skłodowska in Warsaw (then in Vistula Land, Russian Empire; now in Poland)

    from Wikipedia.org

  • AC

    How about Bridget Bardot, French Fries, French kissing.

  • AC

    OT
    Butler  Bulldogs versus Duke Blue Devils at 9:30
    Take Butler
    Glad they’re not wearing Burqua’s–how would they call a hacking or reaching in  foul.

  • sowsear

    but I’m glad my wife doesn’t make me go out in public like this . . .

    But at home…..

  • guest

    Riiiight…like “Ferd Berfle” is your real name.  You have some serious anger management issues

  • jbjd

    AC, last week during the storms in the NE, a fellow teacher and I braved the elements from the train to the school.  She is 6 months pregnant – first child – and several inches taller than me.  Well, the rain was pouring down and the wind was gusting up to 25 m.p.h.  Needless to say, I kept the umbrella closed.  Within seconds, my hair was soaked and I was having trouble seeing; she had on a nylon jacket with a hood. Seeing my distress, she positioned her body in front of me.  ‘I’ll shield you from the wind.’  That’s what I used to do for my son, when he was little.  I reassured her, she will make a good mother. 

  • Daisy Mae

    Yes, Senneth and Ferd,
    It is not only a public safety issue, but obstruction of vision and sensory deprivation.  There is an increase in rickets in England among these swaddled women.  

    Norway is debating this issue.  At least 5 countries in Europe want to ban the burqa.  France’s view of a “citoyenne” is clear. 

    There is a real apartheidism operating among many Muslims in Europe…and, I daresay, also in the United States.  What fun–female circumcision, honor killings, Sharia courts deferred to in the UK, Sharia law deferred to in Germany.  Did you all know that MInnesota does sharia financing?  The City of MInneapolis aids sharia financing for businesses?  Huge Somali population there.

  • FrenchNail

    As long as the issue is discussed in terms of gender, to me any of the arguments presented in support of the full burqua or even veil, are non-effective. I still stands by my position of total band.

  • lorac

    Well, IMO, even if rules are in a religious text, they’re still man-made.

    But in response to the article, even if one could say that no one is “forcing” them to wear it, in some countries (I believe Saudi Arabia is one), you can get killed for going without.  So, I wouldn’t call that a “free choice”….

  • lorac

    Ah, no, I don’t know about you, but we normal humans learned that the American dream was about pursuing your goals in a legal way, by working hard and having faith in yourself.  “Any way they can” – that’s not an American dream, that’s a hoodlum’s dream.  Wow.

  • lorac

    And burqas can hide the effects of domestic violence and protect the perpetrator.

  • lorac

    lol You should draw a cartoon of Mohammed while you’re having your beer.

  • lorac

    But clan identity for only one gender.  If they make the men also wear beekeeping outfits, then maybe I’ll accept it’s a fair cultural tradition!  lol

  • lorac

    Wait, are you talking about Pat Condell (an “n” instead of an “r” in the middle)?  He’s middle aged, from Britain, he’s an atheist?   If that’s who you mean, I love that guy!

  • lorac

    Oh, maybe he’s in that video up above – if so, sorry – for some reason, I can no longer see videos on blog pages….

  • lorac

    jbjd – make sure to click on the “subscribe” button, so you’ll get an alert every time he releases a new one  :)

  • lorac

    Culture and religion do NOT trump women’s freedom and rights.  They try to, but it’s wrong.  When a society indoctrinates women that they have to wear these things, THEY are being intolerant to “woman-ness”.  NOT allowing this clothing is supporting tolerance of women’s HUMANITY.

  • lorac

    Stop insulting Ferd.  I have spoken!  lol

    I really wish people couldn’t post using “guest”.  I always try to avoid them, because you never know if it’s a good witch or a bad witch.  Why can’t you guys just pick a name?

  • AnnieCarmel

    “more poser than their national average would indicate.”  Sorry, that should be “more power.”..

  • lorac

    Soon non-whites will outnumber whites in the UnitUnited Stateur mind…

    S

  • Buzzlatte

    It will make her less wookie-ish.  Okay, I couldn’t resist.  There really is a likeness.

  • Buzzlatte

    Right – like guest is your name, too.  You have some serious issues with judgemental behavior…

  • lorac

    grrrrr!  I hate it when the comment box makes the print so faded and then I can’t get make it type the regular darkness!  I wanted to respond to this:  Soon non-whites will outnumber whites in the United States

    Not to disqualify the point of your post, just a small point – hispanics are either white or black race.  In America, the vast majority are white.  So, while hispanics are becoming over a 1/4 of our total population here, I believe whites will still be the majority.  It’s not the white race that is being outnumbered, it’s the European culture that is being – well, colonized, when people are coming into the melting pot and are instead balkanizing. 

    There’s very little attempt to do anything about illegals crossing over from Mexico, and there are official, lowered caps on how any people from Europe can legally immigrate here. 

    If this happened in another country, we would all be shouting that the huge influx was destroying the original culture.  But if you said that here, you’d be “racist”.   Someone at the top has no respect for the culture of America (and I think it started before the Cheater-in-Chief).

    Societies seem to need (to survive) certain basic cultural aspects that are agreed upon.  New immigrants bring new traditions, and the original society adopts some of those new traditions, and the newcomers adjust to the norms in the new culture.  That’s exactly what a melting pot is.  Some changes at the edges, but the basic culture remains. 

    Sudden overpopulation by another culture/language/religion will only lead to mass strife.  They should be moving somewhere because they like what that place is.  They should not be moving there to remake it in their own image – that’s nothing more than an invasion.

  • Buzzlatte

    No, poser had a certain ring and truth to it.   :)

  • lorac

    I would add:  Ban the burqa, and ban the 3rd wave “feminists”!!!

  • lorac

    You’re missing the point.  It’s irrelevant what Ferd’s real name is.  The point is that he has ONE name.  There are multiple guests and you always have to try to figure out who is who.

    Just answer – why don’t you pick a name?

    Oh – maybe it’s too hard for sexist people who wouldn’t vote for Hillary…..

  • EllenD

    Here’s the problem as I have always seen it. Repressive societies and individuals use the goodness of our free society against us. It is seen as a sign of our weakness.

    A recent poll of Muslims in Europe showed that French Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and French second. With non-Muslims their country came first and religion second.

    I say save your culture, France, and anyone who doesn’t like it can leave on the next ship out.

  • lorac

    ROFL Ferd

  • lorac

    Why don’t you just say why you can’t pick an identifiable screen name like everyone else?

  • lorac

    So all of the policies that you objected to when Bush did them, now that Obama is continuing them, you’re standing up to Obama?  Nope.  You’re eating it because now it’s your guy doing it.  Talk about hypocritical…..

  • Michelle from the Resistance

    I’m sorry for not answering sooner, I’m stuck in a different time zone (Middle F…ing East). So if it’s not too late:
    Michelle from the Resistance is a character from an old BBC sitcom called Allo Allo:


    (Just for reference: It takes place in France during WWII, a fantastic and totally un-pc show)

  • Michelle from the Resistance

    I’m glad I can help.

  • Michelle from the Resistance

    I’m sorry, the guy is addictive, with that whole “making sense” shtick and British sarcasm. I’m a big fan of Pat Condell and I’m not even an atheist, can you imagine that?

  • lorac

    Except it’s the children who, instead of staying home and working to fix their own country, come here and demand with frequent marches, that they be given amnesty and they also want the southwest given back to them (even though they took them from the Indians)….  They usually march with the Mexican flag…..

  • Visitor

    Suggesting men wear burqas advances the argument not one whit and in fact trivializes it.  Men wearing burqas will never happen. Let’s focus on reality.  

    One commenter hit the nail on the head when he/she pointed out that if this ban goes into effect, the women will be shunned by their families.  Just because a European government makes a declaration to advance the cause of women doesn’t mean the whole family will magically get with the program. No.  Many of these women would be shunned by their families and communities. Then where would they go?

    We all agree that burqas are offensive to the eye and a symbol of repression.  But going after symbols is a coward’s way out.

    The point is that these governments have come up with a band-aid solution that makes people feel like they’ve “done something” when in fact nothing has been accomplished. Too often the women so many of you express concern for are horribly abused by their fathers, brothers and in-laws (and in the case of female genital mutilation, their mothers and female relatives).  European leaders would be using their time and energies more productively if they focused on helping women escape the brutality they endure at home, or stopping forced marriages before they take place.  But for that women need to know what their rights are. Funding education and law enforcement programs that focus on these communities would be far more productive than issuing bans.  

  • CarlaforHillary

    I’m not really in agreement with this article, I don’t care what reason burkas are banned – It is subjective any way you look at the issue – just as long as they are banned. What does it matter the reason?  Feminists here do seem to have their rights mixed up with respect to the burka.

    “They have a right to wear them, but not the right to take them off?” Well, then it isn’t really a right then is it?

     Burkas are not a sign of religous freedom, they are a sign of religous oppression.  Any woman that says she “wants” to wear a burka is under pressure or has been indoctrinated into that way of thinking.

  • mary2

    Great article! In QUEBEC,Canada, a new law is being passed to prohibit women in covered headgear/faces to apply for any public services and for those in government to be covering their face.  The rest of Canada has not, but overwhelmingly, that country supports Quebec’s initiative.   Canada provides overwhelming support for women’s services, domestic abuse victim shelters and new immigrant education for women.
    But still this is an issue that deals with PUBLIC SAFETY and niqab it’s argued, should not be tolerated any more than some one wearnign a headface mask to rob a bank.  IDENTITY and Public Safety are the real issues.
    But, of course, the article is right, rather than confront the real problem, the surface is only touched by such laws….

  • mary2

    Funny thing is that Quebec, Canada, where the law is being passed to forbid the headmask (niqab) wearers from receiving or offering public services, benefits, etc. in public places, there is a SECULAR SOCIETY that prevents ostentatious religious funding for schools, etc.  Heavily Catholic earlier, the Quebecers were fed up with Religious Fanatics in their province, and have gone Secular all the way!  They’re the most progressive, socially, of all provinces in Canada together with Ontario.  The problem with the U.S. is that a bunch of religious overbearing zealots have turned to politics to continue their messgae of hatred….

  • Bonnie Jean Burris

    Perhaps we all see through a veil of our own design. Some of these comments appear to indicate blindness no doubt inflicted 9/11/01. I have a Muslim friend from Malaysia who wears a scarf and, while I have never asked if she does so by choice, she is a beautiful, vivacious woman in her early forties, computer literate and cell phone addicted. A childhood friend of my mother (I was named for her) spent several years in Saudi Arabia in the 1950-1960s and as a child I was in awe of the exotic stories she told. She loved living there and the people she met. Her husband worked as an engineer for an oil company and I wonder if western presence there for the sole purpose of removing their natural resource changed the relationship and allowed the fanatics to gain influence.
    There is also a tone in some of the comments suggesting an attitude toward Arabs as mentally deficient and it might be helpful to remember the library in Alexandria, the pyramids and long history of contributions to math, science, art and literature.