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A Real Socialist Explains Why Obama Isn’t One of Them…

CNN’s John Blake posted an article the other day that is just too rich to let pass without comment. CNN, certainly very Obama-friendly, was probably trying to do our President a solid by posting this piece in an effort to prove to the Tea Party activists and others who are not fans of Mr. Obama’s policies that he is not — yikes — a Socialist! So Blake interviewed an authority on the matter…

According to CNN, when it comes to the passage of the new health care bill…

[Billy] Wharton, co-chair of the Socialist Party USA, sees no reason to celebrate. He’s seen people with bumper stickers and placards that call Obama a socialist, and he has a message for them: Obama isn’t a socialist. He’s not even a liberal.

“We didn’t see a great victory with the election of Barack Obama,” Wharton says, “and we certainly didn’t see our agenda move from the streets to the White House.”

Obama’s opponents have long described him as a socialist. But what do actual socialists think about Obama? Not much, says Wharton.

And here is where CNN shares a doozy and my second favorite line of the entire article. According to Mr. Wharton:

“He’s the president whose main goal is to protect the wealth of the richest 5 percent of Americans.”

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding !!!! Bingo! You win the prize. Corporate bailouts. Crony capitalism. “Too big to fail policies” that encourage Wall Street thugs who have been reckless to continue said behavior knowing they will get bailed out when they fail again. A health insurance plan to benefit Big Insurance and Big Phrma, bailing out mis-managed car companies….

Mr. Obama is a corporatist.

One of his biggest economic advisors is Austan Goolsbee (um, the guy who wants to privatize Social Security). I said it when President Bush was trying to do the same thing – do you want some of these Wall Street ganeffs (crooks) managing your hard earned dough and playing Ponzi schemes with your retirement?

The following should be of interest:

[Wharton] and others say the assertion that Obama is a socialist is absurd.

“It makes no rational sense. It clearly means that people don’t understand what socialism is.”

Definitions of socialism vary, but most socialists believe workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own or control them.

Not all socialists, though, want to confiscate personal property. Democratic Socialists are more interested in protecting ordinary people from unregulated capitalism through regulation and progressive taxation.

Some of the socialist agenda is already part of American life, according to Wharton and others.

Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits — all reflect socialistic values, says Van Gosse, an associate professor of history at Franklin & Marshall College in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, who has researched socialist movements in the United States and Latin America.

The widely accepted notions of public education and Pell Grants for college students are socialistic in origin, Gosse says. They fit well with the socialistic premise that government should provide basic security from the cradle to the grave to all of its citizens, he says.

“We assert that education should not be left up to the private market — where those who can pay, get it and those who can’t, don’t get it,” Gosse says. “It’s a common good and in that sense it is a socialistic institution even if the U.S. remains a capitalist nation.”

Socialists are not happy with the recent 2,700 page health insurance reform bill…

They don’t applaud the passage of the recent health care bill either. They wanted a national “single-payer” health insurance plan with a government option. The bill that Obama championed didn’t have any of those features.

Wharton said the new health care bill only strengthens private health insurance companies. They get 32 million new customers and no incentive to change — something a socialist wouldn’t accept.

“Most of it was authored by the health care industry,” Wharton says. “I call it the corporate restructuring of health care.”

BINGO!! And in regard to The Obama administrations actions re the banks, just like Bush before him:

Other critics point to Obama’s Wall Street bailout — which actually had its roots in the Bush administration. Critics say it’s socialistic for government to assume control of private industry.

Frank Llewellyn, national director of the Democratic Socialists of America, says the bailout had nothing to do with socialism.

Llewellyn says a socialist leader would have at least nationalized some of the troubled banks.

“He gave them [the banks] too much with no strings attached,” Llewellyn says. “Banks that were too big to fail are bigger, and they can still fail.”

How about Obama’s bailout of the Detroit auto industry? During the bailout, the federal government assumed partial ownership of General Motors.

“It’s not socialism,” Llewellyn says. “The mere fact that the government owns something or has a stake in it, doesn’t make it socialist. If that was true, you would say that we have a socialist army. The government owns the army.”

Here’s where it gets interesting:

Defining socialism is complex, Llewellyn says, but it starts with a simple goal: Socialists want to introduce democratic features into the economy to reduce inequality.

The economy has “to be run for the overall benefit of the entire population, not for the benefits of a very few people.”

By that measure, Obama’s economic policies are not socialist, he says.

Many here at NoQuarter have long maintained that Presidents Obama and Bush are mirror images of each other. Mr. Llewellyn’s comments go some distance in making that point.

A tea party member had this to say in response:

“The role of government is to provide a safe environment to conduct business, not to take from one and give to the other,” says Quagliaroli, a financial planner who lives in Woodstock, Georgia.

Quagliaroli was not persuaded by the arguments of other socialist leaders who reject the idea that Obama is a socialist.

“He’s just not socialist enough for them.”

Quagliaroli says he doesn’t like socialism because it breeds mediocrity and encourages people to “live on the dole.” Capitalism “breeds excellence” because it encourages initiative, he says.

I have likewise heard other heretofore compassionate people becoming judgmental over the lifestyles of others, particularly if they are reckless, since we are now going to have to subsidize them. If “spreading the wealth acround” means I have lived by the rules my whole life and now have to bail out those who haven’t — no, I don’t like that either.

And now we come to my favorite line in the entire article – this ought to have heads exploding all over the country:

The argument over Obama’s ideology may rage on, but at least one socialist says another prominent politician ought to be inserted into the debate.

Llewellyn, the national director of the Democratic Socialists of America, says he was struck by one player in the 2008 presidential elections who displayed more socialistic leanings than Obama.

This candidate raised taxes on the big oil companies, and sent the revenue to the people.

If you want to learn something about spreading the wealth, Llewellyn says, don’t look to Obama.

“To be honest, the most socialist candidate in the 2008 election was Sarah Palin.”

Hmmm. Well, at least that gives the lie to lefties claiming Sarah Palin is some sort of reactionary.

I think the reason so many keep calling President Obama a socialist is that they don’t know how to term his political philosophy. Perhaps because the only one he seems to have is the one that is going to get him re-elected – namely putting money in the pockets of the groups who have the most dough to spend on his campaign.

His supporters didn’t want to admit it, but he got more money from Wall Street than any other candidate. Fannie and Freddie, Unions, Big Insurance, Big Phrma likewise helped put him over the top – burying all comers in an avalanche of money. His policies most seem to benefit them. Not us. Even the rumblings we are hearing about proposed regulatory reform in the banking industry leave me doubtful anything will be imposed that has real teeth. This health care plan was more or less written by insurance companies for their own benefit. How can we believe anything else that comes out of this administration is going to be for the benefit of those on the street?

Frankly, I’m not sure what name to give what is coming out of this White House but it sure seems to continue the idea that an elite few create policies that most benefit themselves, and we are told to sit down, shut up and take what’s left over.

What would you call it?

  • lorac

    Excellent post, Ani!

    If the bots even dare to respond, I might read their posts, instead of scrolling past them as I usually do!  I could use a laugh….

  • Retired

    Social corporatist?  Corporate socialist?  You decide.  I’ve settled on self-serving assholes.

  • arabella trefoil

    Oh, the bots will respond. Obama is historic historicalness personified, and as such he will not be categorized! He is the One.

    He is tranformative and stuff.

    Bots will be thrilled that Obama has been proclaimed “not a socialist.” You see that, No Quarter? He is NOT a socialist. He’s not anything you accuse him of being. What? You ask what is he then?

    He’s, uh ……

  • Buzzlatte

    My mattress is rapidly becoming my favorite banking/financial institution.

    Sure the interest rate is lousy but the balance doesn’t go down unless I say so.

    Obama?  He’s just one of the ugly heads of the Medusa of corruption either capitalist style or socialist style; it matters not.

  • Ani

    My mattress.  Why didn’t I think of that.  Well, actually, I have.  that’s the sad part.  Soon the banks will charge you money to keep our deposits with them.

  • over it

    What would I call it, Ani?  Being ”blanked” over.

  • sowsear

    Who knows?, but 80% of Americans don’t trust the government.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100419/ap_on_go_ot/us_government_distrust

  • sowsear

    I think some have already started that –in one way or another.

  • Texas Playwright

    Same as ever:  Follow the money.  Sucking the middle class dry to feed the robber barons.

  • Yttik

    Isn’t it hilarious that the real socialists think Palin was the closest?? I made this same argument many times during the primaries. If you study her record in Alaska, it becomes obvious. She not only delivered socialistic policies, she did it effectively and without taxing the crap out of people.

    When people call Obama a socialist, they really mean something more like fascist or communist. A place where the state owns the method and means of production and doles them out in crumbs.

  • Docelder

    Yes, he is a corporatist. Some of us have been saying that for a very long time now. He is no socialist. This whole socialist vs. capitalist and republican vs democrat thing is a sham to keep us against each other. Meanwhile, corporations hire the lobbyists that write the bills that this congress is ramming through… not for people. Not at all. And you are right, of all the politicians we saw in 2008, only Palin was really for regular people. That is because she is one. These other guys… not so much.

  • sowsear

    Need to get rid of another word, “polarizing”…
    http://hillbuzz.org/2010/04/17/saturday-open-thread-april-17th-2010/

  • Freedom Fighter

    Hahaha, Hillary supporters supporting Palin. What an embarassment. Do you think Hillary Clinton would approve?

  • Freedom Fighter

    Hahaha, Hillary supporters supporting Palin. What an embarassment. Do you think Hillary Clinton would approve?

  • connie

    I am in agreement with you on this Docelder. I would like to have just regular folks with normal degrees from regular colleges, no ivy leaguers! Lets see what they can do for a change??
    I think this is why Bill and Hillary were/is so popular because they come from regular folks and were NOT born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Here’s Bill Clinton’s op ed in the NYT. From someone who knows the Oklahoma City bombing incident first hand, Big Dawg basically calls out the Tea Party for threatening violence against the current president. Way to go, Big Dawg, you are restoring my faith in you!

  • Freedom Fighter
  • Obamastolemyparty,myboyfriend,mycountryandmyhealthcare

    Yes, I think so.  actually I saw a Clinton interview the other day where she said she would take ann opportunity to meet Plain, but has not had the chance.  I’ll try to find it!

  • Obamastolemyparty,myboyfriend,mycountryandmyhealthcare

    Nobody cares, FF!  Nobody cares!

  • Obamastolemyparty,myboyfriend,mycountryandmyhealthcare

    What do I call what is coming out of the White House?  Narcissism.

    Or rather, Son, I’m not sure what you have, but I am sure it’s hard to pronounce!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    That’s a rather daunting number, isn’t it?

    Ani, great post!  Now, I need to go stuff my money into my mattress…

  • Obamastolemyparty,myboyfriend,mycountryandmyhealthcare

    <div><iframe height=”339″ width=”425″ src=”http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/33948049#33948049″ frameborder=”0″ scrolling=”no”></iframe><p style=”font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 425px;”>Visit msnbc.com for <a style=”text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;” href=”http://www.msnbc.msn.com”>Breaking News</a>, <a href=”http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507″ style=”text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;”>World News</a>, and <a href=”http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072″ style=”text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;”>News about the Economy</a></p></div>

  • oowawa

    Obama’s a socialist!
    Obama’s a Communist!
    Obama’s a Corporate Socialist!
    Obama’s a Self-Serving O-Hole!
    Obama’s a Narcissist!
    Obama’s a Weenie!
    You guys at NQ just won’t give that cute articulate sweet man a break!

  • Armymom

    Could be he’s just covering his tracks from his own fiasco with Janet Reno and the branch dividian, but then why would we expect someone of your mentality to understand that. The fact is FF, you seem to think that people on this thread are like you, mind numbing thugs who need someone to tell them how to think. YOu know, like an Obot. However, most people on here (you excluded) think for theirselves, can come to their own conclusions by their own research and they do it quite well. YOu however, are constantly pushing the “talking points” of whatever your leader has given you for the day, week or month. Now go away and let us adults continue our conversation. It’s past your bedtime.  

  • sowsear

    No medical records…that tells you something too.
    How about that scar on his head or was that photoshopped?

  • snosandy

    Wasn’t there a movie made about assassinating Bush during his presidency?

  • Armymom

    Yep there was a movie and all the “fringe” atttacks so far have been from the left, SEIU thugs.

  • oowawa

    Well, Buzz–so you’re banking with the Bank of Sealy Posturpedic nowadays.  Perhaps you haven’t read the fine print on the tag.  You know, that tag on the mattress that says “DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALTY OF LAW.”  It says “placing cash or other valuables within this mattress is a federal felony and is punishable by not less than 5 years in prison and a fine of $250,000.”   Or maybe I just dreamt that.  Been doing a lot of tossing and turning lately . . .

  • Igor Marxomarxovich

    Obama qualifications to reform health care:

    “Influential” In Univ Chicago Med Ctr hiring practices

    No birth certificate

    Can not stop smoking

    Difficulty telling the truth.

    Narcissistic personality disorder.

    Therefore, I Igor produce Obama Birth Certificate at <a href=”http://www.igormarxo.org”>www.igormarxo.org</a>

    Compare Obama Care vs Igor Care at <a href=”http://igormarxo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=72″>Obama vs Igor Care</a>

  • Tony Stark

    “What would you call it?”

    Idiocy and sheer incompetence.

  • Buzzlatte

    OMG, we ripped off the tag!   :-P

  • Buzzlatte

    “What would you call it?”

    Corruption Obama and his handlers style.

  • HARP

    Watch and weep FF.

  • oowawa

    I dunno Igor–I mean your name raises a real big red flag in my mind–you know, the kind with a hammer and sickle on it?!?!  I mean, why should we trust someone named Igor Marxomarxovich over someone with a good American name like Barack Hussein Obama?

  • ~~JustMe~~

    I’ve seen the scar on a few occasions when he’s on TV. Seems one hell of a scar, did we ever read he fell of his bike when he was small? Guess he never bounced!

  • propertius

    I think he’s a neo-feudalist, myself ;)

  • ~~JustMe~~

    “What would you call it?” 
    Daylight robbery from the middle class.

  • sowsear

    Bill and Hill were Ivy League, weren’t they? But not from “aristocratic” families.

  • oowawa

    Here’s a good photograph of the scar:

  • Cindy

    oowawa—I swear I love those videos! How about this?
    Make a video rewriting the famous scene in ”Chinatown” where the Jack Nicholson character is slapping the Faye Dunaway character and her saying:
    “He’s a Corporatist!” (slap)
    “He’s a Socialist” (slap)
    “He’s a Coporatist!” (slap)
    “He’s a Socialist!” (slap)
    “He’s a Corporatist and a Socialist!” (tears, sobbing)

  • oowawa

    Brilliant, Cindy!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    OMG….. quite a cutie uh! :)

  • sowsear

    Some white supremacists held a rally today in LA (with a permit), 2 hurt and 5 arrested. Those arersted were counter-demonstrators;
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/04/white-supremacist-rally-ends-with-five-arrests-and-two-assaults-police-say.html

  • sowsear

    I don’t think falling off his bike did that, maybe an operation to remove  something…brain or tumor.

  • oowawa

    Another excellent place to bank is under the insole of your shoes.  As your wealth accumulates, the taller and prouder you get . . .

    Unfortunately, as your wealth dwindles, the shorter and more pitiful you become.

  • sybilll

    I think it all has to do with incremental steps towards an intended goal.  I personally think Obama aligns with Marxists, but, much to his shagrin, he got a taste of capitialism and it’s rewards through the sale of his books.  Ironic, eh? 
    The neoclassical move to Marxism is outdated, thus it must be implemented incrementally.  Socialism is the first step.  He may not be textbook socialist, because of his greed and sell-out to corporations, but, I doubt Hugo Chavez eats too many bologna sandwiches, if you know what I mean. 
    So, Obama’s grade on being a Socialist?  I’ll agree with the President, and give him a solid B+. 

  • ~~JustMe~~

    LOL sows was jesting!

  • Cindy

    Ani–Excellent post. Thank you.

    I’d call him a Carpetbagger, with the Middle Class being the new Confederacy.

  • Cindy

    Buzz–LOL- that’s so funny!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    O/T
    Goldman Sachs faces questions in Europe
    LONDON – Goldman Sachs is facing a potential backlash in Europe over the fraud case brought against it in the United States, with Britain’s Prime Minister Gordon Brown calling for authorities there to investigate and accusing the investment bank of “moral bankruptcy.”
    Germany also said it would ask for detailed information about the case.

  • sybilll

    Mods, I only hit Post once, please delete the dupes. 

  • Deapthrowt

    Obama is a tool of the unions. That explains everything about him. His only goal is to increase union members to pay them back for being the “little people” who elected him and provided him the money to buy this election.

    He is just a pay to play guy. Being a socialist would mean he actually stood for something. He does not and never has other than for himself. The unions told him they would elect him and he said why not.

    He is a legend in his own mind and only the unions were smart enough to know how to buy him and use him.

    He came cheap and easy.

  • oowawa

    Sybill, why can’t you delete your own dupes?  Just click the “delete” tab on one of them . . .

  • Cindy

    Rev. Amy—What was that address again??! ;)

  • carol haka

    Drudge is reporting 2 humiliating stories:

    Polish Newspaper is reporting that instead of going to President’s funeral, Obama went out to play golf.

    Obama has now played gold 32 times in 15 months.  Bush played 24 times in 8 years or 96 months.

    IMPEACH this moron.

    >:o

  • ~~JustMe~~

    O/T  

    Goldman Sachs faces questions in Europe

    LONDON – Goldman Sachs is facing a potential backlash in Europe over the fraud case brought against it in the United States, with Britain’s Prime Minister Gordon Brown calling for authorities there to investigate and accusing the investment bank of “moral bankruptcy.”  
    Germany also said it would ask for detailed information about the case.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_goldman_sachs_europe

  • sybilll

    Sorry oowawa, since I cleared my cookies, something in this evil Vista will not let me officially log in with any of my profiles.  I respond individually, leaving me no control.  Sorry. 

  • carol haka

    Klein, Heildeman and tweety are accusing Palin, Limbaugh, and Beck of commiting the felony of “sedition”:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/04/18/time-s-klein-beck-palin-potentially-committing-sedition-against-u-s-gover

    Oh yeah, it’s because Obama is AA and his middle name is funny, you know, as in “hussein”.

    Time for an attorney to shut these assholes up permanently.

    >:o

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Bush gave up golf as a respect to our armed forces serving. What has “O” given up?
    Wed Party Night?
    Date Night
    Golf?
    Travelling?

    Sure you can all add more to the list…

  • ~~JustMe~~

    sybill under your post you will find where you can delete.
    No need to login
    FlagLikeReplyDelete

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Not Bill he was raised by a Single Mom. His father was a useless alcoholic.

    Bill earned his Ivy the hard way. He worked for it.

    Hillary’s family was middle to upper middle class. Her Father’s parents were Welsh immigrants. Hillary’s father owned a small business.

    Not quite silver spoon.

  • AbigailAdams

    What I find fascinating is not so much which category he fits into, but the fact that most of the major groups are saying “He’s not one of us!” Them Dems are calling him a Repub, the Libs are saying he’s ”not a ’true’ Liberal”, the religious are claiming he’s the anti-Christ, the Israelis are suspicious, and it goes on and on,

    Interestingly, the groups we really think he’s a part of haven’t disinherited him yet. 

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Wharton is just a smokescreen.  Anyone that does not see Obama’s socialist spread the wealth agenda has been asleep.

    Obama’s Crown Jewel and “Big Fucking Deal” is Obamacare. With a socialist mandate of making people that do not want it pay for it, whether or not tey use it.

    Any doubt about whether Obama is Socialist can be cleared up by reading the agenda of the Democratic Socialists of America:
    Here is the goal of the DSA directly from their website: http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html#strat
    Section 4: A Strategy for the Next Left:
    “Socialists have historically supported public ownership and control of the major economic institutions of society — the large corporations”.
     “Through control of the government by the Democratic Party coalition, led by anti-corporate forces, a progressive program regulating the corporations, redistributing income, fostering economic growth and expanding social programs could be realized.”

    DSA members permiate the Obama coalition.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Joe is feeling the pressure from editors for a story that will increase circulation.

    Try this Story Joe: dig up Obama’s college transcripts and find the passport he used to travel to Pakistan. That will increase circulation.

  • EllenD

    Well, I’d be happier if Palin had brought in single payer in Alaska if she were so Socialistic.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Obama’s Policies are aligned with the DSA and Obama has the support of the DSA.

    The Democratic Socialists split from Whartons Socialist Party of America in 1982. Wharton is just jealous because his Socialist Party was not invited to the dance.

    This is what the Communist Party USA said about Obama: “Obama State of the Union: He got the ball rolling”.

    The DSA and Communist Party support Obama. What more do you need to know?

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    True and the SEIU is closely tied to the Democratic Socialist Party. They share members and policy.

  • Cindy

    oowawa—I meant that “like” as a thankyou, not as an “of course!”…We need a thankyou button on these deals, IMHO.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Obama is using the incremental steps outlined by the strategy of the Democratic Socialists of America.

    See my comment below, and look it up here: http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html#strat

  • EllenD

    Thank you Ani. That was a very succinct description of Socialism. I hope people read it and stop using Socialism as a fire-and-brimstone epithet.
    Anyone who has heard Bernie Sanders realizes he isn’t a servant of the devil.

  • geoff

    “Narcilist”. Everything to everybody but I come first.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    McVeigh planned his bombing of the Fed bldg in OK City to coincide with the anniversary of the Branch Dividian raid.

    Clinton was more responsible for the creation of violent radicals than the Tea Party.

    Clinton parsed his words knowing that the press and idiots would make the connection of Tea Party – McVeigh violence, even though that is not exactly what he said.

    It’s just a case of Clinton being Slick Willie. He palnted the idea knowing the press would run with it.

    In this case he is Sick Willie.

  • Ani

    And they were never forgiven for it.  When Clitnon was elected, the elitists said “the Clampetts take the White House.”

  • Ani

    FF, give it up already.  Will you?

  • sybilll

    Nope, I only have Flag – Like – Reply.
    I am self taught in computer lingo, and have cognitive difficulties due to my MS, so, I appreciate any input.  My apologies. 

  • POdVet

    Obama is as he has always been…a criminal. Not a liberal, and not a socialist! How does Obamacare = socialism?!? It’s the exact same bill corrupt republicans tried to pass when Hillary was trying for universal healthcare during Bills Presidency. The same health insurance companies wrote BOTH of them! In fact, if you get right down to hard facts. There is not and never has been a single truly socialist government. Not any where or at any time in the history of the world! You’ve had many dictatorships pretend to be…but none ever came anywhere even remotely close. Truth be told. There is only one visible example of a “workable” socialist government ever. Star Trek! Think about that for a second…to see a socialist government, without a ruling class hiding mass murders and denying out of control poverty and starvation from government corruption. You have to look at a science fiction television series!

  • Cindy

    NoLongerBanned—–After looking at #4, it reads like the Obama playbook. Wow! Thanks.

  • elaine

    Ron Paul was recently asked if he thought the administration was  socialist &  he responded that he thought it was more of a corportist administration.

    BTW the term “middle class” gets bandied about quite a bit.  I just read a WiKi on the middle class & am still confused.  So many people appear to have a high debt ratio compared to their net worth that’s it very difficult to define solely by annual income.

  • elaine

    correction:  So many people appear to have a high debt ratio compared to their net worth that it’s very difficult to define their economic class solely by annual income.

    EllenD, I just watched a few Bernie Sanders interviews & atleast he’s figured out immigration reform is harmful (interview with Lou Dobbs), which puts Bernie way to the right of the Dems.

  • kenoshamarge

    I would classify the big Zero as a “statist” not a socialist. That’s been where I’ve seen his policies for some time.

    statism: The belief that the centralization of power in a state is the ideal or best way to organize humanity.

    Seems appropriate going from being a “community organizer” to a “humanity organizer”.

  • kenoshamarge

    That’s what struck me too Abigail! I suspect this trend will grow. He’ll beome toxic to any but the dimbulb partisans and the dimmer bulb Obots.

  • politicsisdirty

    Potato, potatoe…whatever.

    And who is this Wharfton guy anyway? Was he paid by somebody to calm the general populace?

  • Ferd Berfle

    Well, Arabella, he is the one who thinks he is the one everyone has been waiting for and is also the leader of those who are the ones who believe that they are the ones they have been waiting for. What unadulterated claptrap. I don’t think we have enough rubber rooms for them all.

  • Diana L. C.

    I liked so many of these comments because all of them together give me so much to think about today.  Thanks all!  (I would hate going to a web site where I hear only one line of reasoning.  Too bad our public schools can’t be that way since the Ayers’ school of educational thinking has captured them.)

  • Breeze

    Well… here is something that sounds very familiar:

    “Let us have a dagger between our teeth,

    a bomb in our hands and

    an infinite scorn in our hearts”

    <img src=”http://cdn.js-kit.com/i/sq/as4.gif” title=”Author Popularity 9/10″/> Benito Mussolini quote

  • Breeze

    But this hits the nail on the head:

    “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism

    because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

    <img src=”http://cdn.js-kit.com/i/sq/as4.gif” title=”Author Popularity 9/10″/> Benito Mussolini quote

  • sowsear

    Chicago Style, coined long ago!

  • sowsear

    Aren’t you clever to say he played  gold mine? That’s what I thought you meant when I first read it…No such thing as a mistake…

  • sowsear
  • sowsear

    Tear down the US, whatever that is called..

  • Ferd Berfle

    I think the reason so many keep calling President Obama a socialist is that they don’t know how to term his political philosophy. Perhaps because the only one he seems to have is the one that is going to get him re-elected – namely putting money in the pockets of the groups who have the most dough to spend on his campaign.
    =================================
    It is actually worse than this. That One’s philosophy can be described in one word: megalomania. He is not a socialist because he doesn’t think of himself as just another cog in the proletatiat workings nor does he think in grand terms such as thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. He’s not a communist because he refuses to take a stand which would take some measure of intestinal fortitude. He’s also not a complete fascist because while he rails against the powers that be in corporate healthcare, he made a deal with them. No, this is all about him and his demonstrably apparent psychoses.

  • oowawa

    Sybill, whatever browser you are using, you have to make sure that it allows “cookies.”  That would be the first thing I would check.

  • Sassy

    sybill, I only have flag-like-reply now as well…did have delete…don’t know where it went.

  • Ferd Berfle

    This is really bugging me.

    To call That One a Marxist would be to presume that he is one and that his followers are, too. That would presume that they believed in one of Karl’s central tenets–that the workers would control the means of production, which presumes that those who would be in charge under such a system would actually work and that something would be, indeed, be produced.

    I don’t know about the rest of you but all I see being produced by That One and the Bots are a lot of odoriferous gaseous eruptions and tempests better confined to teapots.

    They certainly aren’t Marxists. I would just call them lazy bastards who want another handout and whose vocabularies are confined to such rudimentary thought processes as I want and gimme. This isn’t exactly the stuff revolutions are made of.

  • Ferd Berfle

    This is really bugging me.  
     
    To call That One a Marxist would be to presume that he is one and that his followers are, too. That would presume that they believed in one of Karl’s central tenets–that the workers would control the means of production, which presumes that those who would be in charge under such a system would actually work and that something would be, indeed, produced.  
     
    I don’t know about the rest of you but all I see being produced by That One and the Bots are a lot of odoriferous gaseous eruptions and tempests better confined to teapots.  
     
    They certainly aren’t Marxists. I would just call them lazy bastards who want another handout and whose vocabularies are confined to such rudimentary thought processes as I want and gimme. This isn’t exactly the stuff revolutions are made of

  • Sassy

    I’ll go with “royalists”! A priviledged class and their court, who dole out the bare necessities to their underlings!
    I’m glad the Tea Party has them in hot water!

  • Ferd Berfle

    Royalists is an apt description as are autocrats, despots, and anal-retentive control freaks.

  • Ani

    FF,

    Is that the best you can come up with to distract people on this thread?  The entire point of the article was something altogether different.  You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that everything we do is to obtain a gold star from Hillary.  People here know how to think for themselves.  Besides which, Hillary herself treats Palin respectfully.  Palin treats Hillary the same way.  They are both smart in this regard and refuse to get caught up in ridiculous divide and conquer scenarios.

    I supported Hillary because I felt she was the best candidate out there at the time, not because I agreed with every single thing she said or did.  Only those who are addicted to idol worship worry that their fearless leader will not approve of everything they do and say.  I am an educated, thinking, independent adult.  Not a child.

  • jwrjr

    BO is an “Obama-ist”.  Any governmental form is okay as long as he is the top of the food chain.  That is why he finds Democracy unacceptable.  In 4 years (8 at the most), he’s out.  So he has to change that to something that will let him stay at the top indefinitely.

  • Ani

    Abigail, what is fascinating about your comment is that during the campaign, the President appeared to agree with everyone and pretended he was one with everyone.  Many were fooled.  Could it be each of these groups are now realizing this was all for show?

  • Ferd Berfle

    I know I’ve posted this before but That One is an entirely new type of autocrat. He combines the very worst of both the extreme right and extreme left, primarily because he doesn’t care about the ramifications of his “policies” as they will not have an effect on him. He apparently knows he won’t be reelected so he will go full-bore with his “vision” of the new America. In so doing, he will leave behind his many bots to languish under the bus, will destroy the American dream (because he wasn’t given credit for it), and not lose a bit of sleep. All the bloggers and regular commenters here predicted this. Somehow, I don’t feel any better about it.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I concur, jwrjr. See below.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Thank you, Ani. I could not have said it better.

  • oowawa

    You know, this is really a verfy old problem.  Every time a new Messiah shows up, there’s a tremendous amount of initial enthusiasm, but eventually his worshippers just don’t quite know where He, or they, fit into the overall scheme of things.  Is he a Socialist, a Populist, or a Corporatist?  Is he Robin Hood or the Sheriff of Nottingham?  What is a devoted follower to make of this inspiring new phenomenon?

  • oowawa

    You know, this is really a very old problem.  Every time a new Messiah shows up, there’s a tremendous amount of initial enthusiasm, but eventually His worshippers just don’t quite know where He, or they, fit into the overall scheme of things.  Is he a Socialist, a Populist, or a Corporatist?  Is he Robin Hood or the Sheriff of Nottingham?  What is a devoted follower to make of this inspiring new phenomenon?

     

     

  • Ferd Berfle

    A real socialist would live in a kibbutz.

    That One isn’t Jewish
    That One doesn’t share
    That One doesn’t care

    He isn’t a socialist or anything resembling what I would call a good man. He’s nothing more than a shyster.

  • Ani

    Pink fluffy bunny, you are the best!  :)

    Great musical choice…

  • oowawa

    Right on Breeze–my favorite so far . . .

  • Breeze

    OT-

    From Riverdaughter:

    Today is Patriots’ Day, a holiday in Massachusetts that commemorates the the initial Revolutionary War battles in Lexington and Concord. On April 18, 1775, Paul Revere
    …was sent for by Dr. Joseph Warren and instructed to ride to Lexington, Massachusetts, to warn Samuel Adams and John Hancock that British troops were marching to arrest them. After being rowed across the Charles River to Charlestown by two associates, Paul Revere borrowed a horse from his friend Deacon John Larkin. While in Charlestown, he verified that the local “Sons of Liberty” committee had seen his pre-arranged signals. (Two lanterns had been hung briefly in the bell-tower of Christ Church in Boston, indicating that troops would row “by sea” across the Charles River to Cambridge, rather than marching “by land” out Boston Neck. Revere had arranged for these signals the previous weekend, as he was afraid that he might be prevented from leaving Boston).

    On the way to Lexington, Revere “alarmed” the country-side, stopping at each house, and arrived in Lexington about midnight. As he approached the house where Adams and Hancock were staying, a sentry asked that he not make so much noise. “Noise!” cried Revere, “You’ll have noise enough before long. The regulars are coming out!”
    On the morning of April 19, 1775, the “embattled farmers stood and fired the shot heard ’round the world.”
    At the Concord North Bridge, a small group of militia battled a force of British soldiers. At this point, the British commander decided to retreat back toward Lexington, as it became evident that more and more Minutemen were arriving from all of the local villages and farms.

    During this retreat, the British kept to the road, while the American farmers fired at them from behind trees, walls and any obstacle they could find. When the British force returned to Lexington, they were met by a relief column. The combined British units then headed for Boston. The Minutemen continued to harass them the whole way.

    By the end of the day, British casualties numbered 273, while the colonials suffered only 94, 18 of which fell during the initial clash at Lexington. The American Revolutionary War had begun

  • arabella trefoil

    Real pictures of Obama’s scars. It seems to be a kind of “T” shape. In other photos ( which I can’t find right now) it looks as if his skalp had been lifted up and away from his cranium and then replaced.

    There are no references to any childhood accidents that would account for this.

    Gotta go, I have a Microbiology exam.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Royalist gives a good impression of “Thee One” Working towards sitting on his throne donning a magnificent crown. The“O” regime! He’s probably practicing the royal wave so he has it down pat!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Royalist gives a good impression of “Thee One” Working towards sitting on his throne donning a magnificent crown. The“O” regime! He’s probably practicing the royal wave so he has it down pat!

  • kenoshamarge

    Why on earth would a free American Citizen care what the hell Hillary Clinton approved or disapproved of? We support or approve or whatever of whomever we choose as free citizens. The fact that so many people seem to find some celebrity’s or politcian’s endorsement a reason to support this candidate or that is something I find appalling.

    Hillary Clinton is responsible for her vote. I am responsible for mine. She probably voted for Obama because she is a Democrat and that seems to come first with her.

    I voted for McCain/Palin because my country comes first with me and I thought then and believe now that John McCain and Sarah Palin are both more concerned with their country. I did not then and do not now agree with all of their issues. But I respect both of them. I have no respect for Obama or the Democratic Leadership. Their subsequent actions have proved that I was right.

    I only regret all the years that I was a partisan pinhead. I probably voted “for” some and “agin” some when I should have done the opposite. Being a partisan is so much easier than thinking for yourself. Probably explains why so many just go with the party flow.

  • Rosa

    I would bet the teachers are not so happy with him now…..

  • Hokma

    I agree. The United States cannot be radically transformed overnight and Obama’s plan is to set it on the path.

    Socialism is government control of all aspects of the economy and society. The government is supposed to be “the people” but in actuality it is an authoritarian oligarchy. 

    Under Obama nearly 50% of the private sector is now under government control. He is trying to quickly redistribute wealth. His healthcare overhaul set the industry on a path to be controlled by by the government. He intends on doing the same thing with education and energy.

    There is nothing in this man’s history that would lead you to believe he is anything but a socialist. How he gets the USA there is clearly in incremental stages, but there is a definite path.

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    Most likely the brain….

  • starburst

    Yttk, exactly!

  • Carlaforhillary

    Great Post Ani.  I don’t think that there really is one term to define Obama’s ideology.  From what he has said himself, (“seeking out the Marxist professors, etc..”) I do think that Socialism/Marxism was his ideological base.  Remember back when that Newspaper clip? was floated around on the internet with him as a socialist democrat party member?  But, then I think when he went back to Chicago and started his political career, – he knew he wouldn’t be able to get far without the backing of the Unions, etc..he is basically a  self-serving individual hiding under the guise that he is here to help us. He wouldn’t have been able to get elected his image wasn’t that he was here to help us. That is the deal that so many of his supporters wrongly bought.  I don’t think Obama knows what he is – he is what he needs to be at that moment to get where he wants to go. The reason for that is because it worked. He is the president.

    “Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits — all reflect socialistic values, says Van Gosse,” – I do think these are socialistic values, and many Americans are now realizing this and also that they really don’t benefit Americans as much as they should. That is why you have the Tea Party people revolting against any more type of entitlements. 

    As Maragret Thatcher said “The problem with Socialism is eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

    Of course there are different definitions of Socialism, etc. Everyone defines things based on how they want or need it perceived.

    Again, this was a great post. It is great to be informed about what and how other people think.

  • starburst

    Yeah, sowsear, that scare is about four inches long.  What’s up with that?

  • starburst

    Ooops, i.e. “that scar”.  

  • starburst

    Me too, Sassy.

  • beachnan

    Hate the term Slick Willie.  I call bullshit on your comment.  I think his comments were fair and reasoned.  He said that people had a right to disagree with their government.  He said they have a right to protest.  If the media wants to take his comments and make them into something else, then that is the media.  He is the first big Dem to come out and say that he thought political discussion was a good thing.  I think you will agree that Bill went out of his way, not to say anything negative about George Bush either.  I do not like the current crop of Dems, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc, but I don’t like the way everything is painted in big broad strokes.  If seems as though everyone wants to sweep out all the Dems, and I will probably be voting for Republicans this time, so that Obama will not be able to push his agenda any further, but not all Dems are bad, and not all Republicans are good-far from it.   

  • elaine

    Don’t get too confused.  Rules for the Politburo are always a few rungs above the masses.

  • beachnan

    Carla for Hillary, I like what you had to say.  It is all about Obama, and how his policies will affect him.  If he really cared about health care for everyone, he wouldn’t have allowed the health care providers
    to write the bill.  The media is trying to put out the meme that the tea party is calling him a “socialist”, so that they can pigeon hole the tea parties.  I just call him an arrogant, self-serving man, that doesn’t know what it means to care about others, unless those people can promote him, or give him their complete adoration.  Thanks Ani for the great post as usual. 

  • Carlaforhillary

    Thank you. 

  • Jubeju

    Well written and backed up with facts…bravo, sir.  Meet the new boss…same as the old boss.  See ya in the Camps in 10 years…

  • Jonathan

    Obama is about as socialist as my butt. The Americans that claim this make me laugh out loud. Come over to Europe and see the socialists that are everywhere. Obama would be far on the right of most conservative parties over here. To call him or the Democrats socialist is utterly absurd, that is correct, to call him and them liberal well just maybe there is a case for that… 

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  • texasvetgal

    Ok, he’s not a Fabian Socialist in the classic sense of the word, What he IS, is a anti-American, leftist, race-baiting lying scumbag, who never misses an oppurtunity to divide this country along ,Race, Economic, Gender, and Political lines,  just like the rest of the far left party of demoncraps  thats left over from the 2010 election. These asshats hate this Country and Constitution, and want to replace it with a European Style Welfare State. Our Free Market, Capitalist form of Government has lifted more people out of poverty than Socialism has EVER achieved, regardless of its flavor.

  • Fuck republicans

    Dude, Go back to Mastribating in the barnyard, or bitching about outdated textbooks or somthing you small town republicans do on their spare time.

    I dont see an Anti-American lying scumbag, I just see an African American president who is cleaning up the shit laying all over america from the last two idiot texans.

    I hope you do notice a trend that has occured in history. When bush was elected… the economy did bad under the first Bush. then Clinton came in and got the econom in the black…that is until George W. Bush came in and — given 9-11 did happen, however similar events (note terrorist events such as the uni bomber’s rein of terror, Oklahoma City bombing, and events like that) the 9-11 attacks hit the twin towers, yes, and our economy did kind of a barrel roll, but what Bush did in responce, instead of working with the police, we just went in guns-a-blazing, and caused civil unrest in some Middle Eastern countries that ‘coincidentally, had oil’.

    Although you might just be too buisy giving Texas Breathalyzers to give a fuck about what is right

  • Eat liberals words are free

    It’s amazing that you speak of texans as if you know something. I guess you can hate on us small town people. We chose to live by our roots, follow the law, we don’t all drink, but most of us do own guns. We own horses, ranches, and beef on the hoof. Have you eaten beef lately? Or bought some veggies? They may have come from Texas. Did you fill up your car the last couple weeks? Well thank God texans Have let them upset our quiet little towns. Letting them tear up what’s been in our family for 100 years so that we can help pull this country out of debt. Or do you think we are all just sitting around here kicking cow patties? No we are all working all te time. Maybe that’s why our state is so great, our medical is fine, and when old people get old guess what we do? We go out of our ways to help them. If small towns in Texas were America, America would be fine. Bunch of lazy people is what I think when I see people with their hands out to government. Anyone can work right now, just means you might have to make some sacrifices. Like pride, pay, and job feild change.