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Women, Education, And Baseball

There is much going on in the US right now, from the oil spill in Louisiana (horrible, devastating, especially to such a sensitive area that has been fighting to come back), the floods in Tennessee, which damaged the Grand Ole Opry, and more importantly, took lives, as well as floods in Kentucky, to the failed attack in New York.

But I am not writing about any of those issues today, except to say my heart goes out to those in the Gulf States, as well as Tennessee and Kentucky. I might add, kudos to those in New York for their quick action.

Rather, I want to mention a recent report that is a good news/bad news report that came out in April. The report, taken from Census results, claims that women are now on a par with men in advanced degrees. Wow – that is quite a step! That’s the good news. Ready for the bad news? I am sure you can guess: we still don’t get paid the same. Nope, different day, same result:

Women are now just as likely as men to have completed college and to hold an advanced degree, part of an accelerating trend of educational gains that have shielded women from recent job losses. Yet they continue to lag behind men in pay.

Among adults 25 and older, 29 percent of women in the U.S. have at least a bachelor’s degree, compared with 30 percent of men, according to 2009 census figures released Tuesday. Measured by raw numbers, women already surpass men in undergraduate degrees by roughly 1.2 million.

Women also have drawn even with men in holding advanced degrees. Women represented roughly half of those in the U.S. with a master’s degree or higher, due largely to years of steady increases in women opting to pursue a medical or law degree.

At current rates, women could pass men in total advanced degrees this year, even though they still trail significantly in several categories such as business, science and engineering.

“It won’t be long before women dominate higher education and every degree level up to Ph.D.,” said Mark Perry, an economics professor at the University of Michigan-Flint who is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think-tank. “They are getting the skills that will protect them from future downturns.”

While young women have been exceeding men in college enrollment since the early 1980s, the educational gains have now progressively spread upward to older age groups. That could have wide ramifications in the workplace: more working mothers, increased child-care needs and a greater focus on pay disparities among them.

Women with full-time jobs now have weekly earnings equal to 80.2 percent of what men earn, up slightly from 2008 but lower than a high of 81 percent in 2005.

So, why the continued disparity in pay, then? If we are on a par with men in terms of education, why are we not getting paid the same as they are? And if women are going to overtake men, will pay go up for women, or will it just come down for men? I guess we’ll see, but it is infuriating that this disparity continues after all these years. When will the time come that women will be treated as truly equal??

And that brings me to this story. Now, you know I am a huge baseball fan, so when I saw this headline, it caught my eye,
Joe Niekro’s Knuckler Lives Through Arm of 12-Year-Old Girl
. Say whaaa? How can that be? This is how:

As an organ donor, pitching great Joe Niekro left his eyes behind so another man could see. He left his liver, kidneys and heart so three others could live today.

He left a unique and special gift — his famed knuckleball — to a precocious little girl who could be on the verge of inspiring a whole new generation of baseball players.

Chelsea Baker, only 12, has learned to make that pitch dance, to magically make it move like a butterfly on its way to home plate, baffling and befuddling young hitters. Like Joe taught her, shortly before his death in 2006 (the two are seen in the photo above, courtesy of Rod Mason).

“Joe would be so proud, so really proud,” said Debbie Niekro, Joe’s widow who has watched Chelsea pitch several times. “He really liked Chelsea. He loved the way she listened, and learned at that age. He knew she was going to be something special.”

Niekro was 61 when he died suddenly of a brain aneurysm. At the time, he was helping coach a Little League team on which Chelsea and his own son played in his adopted hometown of Plant City.

Wow, what gifts Niekro left behind, from being an organ donor, an issue near and dear to my heart (my mom received a liver transplant almost 25 years ago, which allowed us to have her for all those years before her death in January), to coaching Little Leaguers, to treating this little girl like she was just as worthy as any of those boys on the field. That is no small thing. Nor was the way in which he inspired this little girl:

Chelsea was 8 when he died, too young to quite understand how final death would be, but old enough to understand the gift that Niekro had left her. It gave her a passion for the game, and specifically for the pitch.

“I bugged him to teach me because I never could hit that knuckleball when he would throw it to me in batting practice. He always said it was a secret, but he finally taught me, and we worked on it a lot,” Chelsea told FanHouse last week after a game. “I love throwing it. My catcher says it’s so nasty.”

And the batters can’t touch it. Although there are many young girls peppered across America now playing Little League Baseball with the boys, there are only a few who can dominate as Chelsea does.

She has thrown two perfect games within the past year, including one in an All-Star Game. She is unbeaten this season in nine starts, throwing 54 innings and striking out 103 batters while allowing only four runs. She also is hitting .569, playing third base when she doesn’t pitch.

“When she first came to me for instruction, I was thinking ‘OK, here is a girl I can help,” said Keith Maxwell, a hitting instructor who played 12 years of professional baseball, including five with the Pittsburgh Pirates organization. “But after two weeks with her, I was like ‘wow.’ She has an incredible pop in her bat. She isn’t just a pitcher. I thought, ‘This is probably going to be the first girl to play Major League Baseball.’ And I don’t say that lightly.”

Holy cow, wouldn’t that be SOMETHING? I would sure love to live to see that day, a woman playing in the Big Leagues. Just think about this: baseball players, football players, and basketball players make MILLIONS of dollars a year – if they are men. Women do not have access to those kinds of salaries as professional athletes with the exceptions of tennis and golf. Professional women soccer and basketball players are not signing multi-million dollar contracts right out of college, that’s for sure. The disparity is glaring and extreme. For women to finally have access to those kinds of salaries would be a big deal indeed.

Back to Chelsea:

She already is being recruited to play for the Sparks, a girls baseball team based in the Northeast that tours nationally playing against the best boys teams in the country.

Chelsea, average size for a 12-year-old girl, is unusually athletic with a powerful arm and a fastball that comes close to 70 mph. Yet it’s Niekro’s knuckleball, and the passion he sparked, that makes her so special.

It’s why in the fall, when her sixth-grade history assignment was to do a project on “Someone Who Changed The World,” she selected Joe Niekro as her topic. She already had all his old baseball cards. She had several pictures of her and him on the baseball field together.

“I got an A on the project. The teacher told us it had to be about someone you felt strongly about,” she said. “And I knew how famous Coach Joe was. I miss him. I remember before every game I pitched, I had to give him a kiss on the cheek before he’d give me the ball.”

Niekro pitched 22 seasons in the major leagues for seven different teams. He won 221 games. He and his brother Phil Niekro combined for 539 wins, the most of any brother tandem in history. Chelsea knows all those numbers now.

Some of his time in the Bigs was spent in Atlanta, my favorite NL team, with his brother, Phil. He and Phil were also in the Pinstripes of the New York Yankees while I was living in New York. What a career. Chelsea could tell you all about it:

She is the one who wrote the moving passage that was used as part of Niekro’s obituary tribute. It brought friends and family members to tears.

“Coach Joe taught me so much in the few short years I new (sic) him. He taught me how to have pride in myself, and to be humble. Most of all, he taught me to throw his famous knuckle ball. . . . . I miss seeing him . . . . . . and his happy face at the ballpark. I will always remember and love you. – CHELSEA BAKER.”

It was also Chelsea who came to the funeral viewing services and left a baseball in Niekro’s open casket. And it wasn’t just any baseball, either. It was a scuffed baseball, with four tiny and barely visible fingernail marks along the seams, exactly where he taught her to grip it.

“He taught me how to hold it like this,” she demonstrated last week. “I usually wait until I have two strikes. They can’t hit it. He told me that’s how it would be.”

She is merely a seventh-grader, but watching her pitch or watching her play, or hearing her speak about Niekro, she seems much older. For all her accomplishments — she will make her sixth consecutive All-Star team in Plant City — she is surprisingly humble.

Now THAT is something to celebrate. An accomplished athlete who makes good grades AND is humble. Wow. This pretty much says it all:

Some of her teachers at Turkey Creek Middle School don’t even know she plays baseball. Most of the boys do, because they’ve been playing against her for several years, accepting her as one of the best. It’s when she travels, as the only girl in her league, that occasionally she hears remarks about her being a girl. Mostly it’s from the grandstands, from other parents.

“I still hear parents from other teams say, ‘When is she going to start playing softball?’ ” said stepfather Rod Mason, who helps coach her team now. “And it kind of ticks me off. So I usually just say, ‘When she stops striking out your little Johnny.’ ”

Well said, Mr. Mason. Well said, indeed. How fortunate Chelsea is to have such supportive people in her life:

Mason and wife Missy have followed Chelsea’s baseball from the start. She started with baseball because that’s what Mason’s sons played. And she just happened to be so good at it.

“I’ve had other parents tell me now that they couldn’t get their girls to practice until they saw Chelsea play,” Mason said. “I think her success will help other girls. She’s just so unbelievably focused. I never ask her to practice. But she always comes to me.”

Home-plate umpires often come to Steve Gude, manager of her team now, and apologize for missing calls when Chelsea pitches. Her knuckleball often darts out and back into the strike zone when she keeps it low — like Coach Joe taught her.

Joe never taught her this trick, but it’s one she can do if you ask. She can stand out in center field — and her arm is so strong — she can throw a knuckleball all the way to home plate, giggling as it flutters through the air.

“Joe was really good to her,” Mason said. “He went out of his way to help her. He was such a giving guy with all the kids, always willing to help. But I think he knew Chelsea was kind of special.”

Women are graduating with advanced degrees in equal numbers with men. Our pay still lags behind the men. Good news, bad news. And the bad news is simply unacceptable in this day and age. Women must get the same pay as their male colleagues. Women must learn to stand together and demand the same salary as the guys with whom they are graduating. It is not going to be something handed down from on high. This battle has been dragging on far too long.

But then there is Chelsea Baker, a knuckleballer who throws as hard as Red Sox pitcher Tim Wakefield, who can also hit, and may well be the first woman to go up to the Big Show. Oh, who is also a good student and humble to boot. Here’s hoping she is one of many to shatter that glass ceiling. How ironic would that be – to have a woman in the Big Leagues before we have a woman president? Looking like that might be possible. It’s a start, though, a glimmer of hope. I’ll take it.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Good thing Obama signed the Lily Ledbetter Act then isn’t it?

  • Yttik

    Oh look, a troll has decided to lay down in the doorway so we can all wipe our feet before entering this thread. How considerate.

    What a sweet story, Rev Amy.

  • ahs

    I mean… you’re right, but blog readers tend to self-select into niches.  Head over to dKos, or redstate, or anywhere else, and you’ll see the same thing.  Yeah, they’re manipulating the audience here, but the audience WANTS to be manipulated – they LIKE a site free of objective, rational, unbiased thought.  It confirms their own beliefs, and that’s pleasant.

    So this is an anti-Obama site, plain and simple, and although it’s fun to poke at them sometimes, you’re just not going to be successful in opening up a real conversation.  Give it up, or stick to poking, but don’t complain when they don’t like you.

    Welcome to the internet, circa 2010.

  • Katmoon

    I would love to see her go to the show, that would be almost as good as living long enough to see a woman become President.

  • Freedom Fighter

    I’m not complaining. Amy said that myself and some other posters were deleting our OWN comments to make the other posters look foolish. She lied. She and the other administrators were secretly doing it.

    It’s the hypocrisy. They can’t bash Obama all day for being secretive and underhanded when they’re doing it themselves.

    If they want to delete the comments, that’s fine, but be upfront about it. Just say, “Hey, this comment deleted by administrators”. Don’t lie and say the poster did it, when they didn’t.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Did you or did you not SECRETLY delete my comments without telling the readers you were doing it?

    Stop ducking. This is No Quarter; No Spin right? A simple yes or no will do.

    And… who else’s comments have you SECRETLY deleted??

  • Freedom Fighter

    Wait till Amy secretly deletes one of your comments. Then laugh funny boy.

  • Sassy

    Oh Amy! What a great story!
    I choked up trying to read it aloud to hubby, who has loved baseball since his midget league days!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I know, Sassy – isn’t it a great story?  I love baseball – and seeing someone like Chelsea play would be a dream come true!

    Katmoon, you said it!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Please do not engage wqith FF.  Seriously.  He has already taken over this post.  And just so EVERYONE knows, I cannopt delete people’s comments.  Only the Administrator and the commenter him/herself can.  So do not buy into FF’s smear attempts.  This is but ONE of the reasons he has been banned.

  • Yttik

    Baseball is still a tough sport for girls to break into. I absolutely love softball but the reality is that girls are given the hand me down uniforms and equipment and have to struggle to get any sort of recognition. I’ve watched our local softball program decline so badly while boys baseball continues to grow both in funding and interest. We have two girls who have elected to join the baseball teams. They struggle daily for their right to be there.

    One thing that happens is that given our culture, if men do it, it has value. It’s not about education or skill, it’s still simply about gender. What men are involved in has value. Teaching for example, the more women who got an education and began to dominate the field, the less money they earned, and the less respected the profession became. Nursing on the other hand, as more men began to enter it, wages and benefits began to increase.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Well said, Yttik.  You have hit the nail on the head – if men do it, it’s good.  If women do it, well, it isn’t.  Spot on!

  • oowawa

    Katmoon–sorry for this slightly OT question & I just asked on another thread, but are you and Ferd OK with the floodwaters there in TN?

  • helenk

    Thank you for this story. I have a granddaughter who plays sports and I will e-mail her the link.  GIRLS RULE////////////////

    For all the people on the site that live in states that are in harms way right now good luck and prayers for all.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Sassy

    Yttik, all true, but the possibilites do my heart good!
    My daughter went to college on a basketball scholarship, and her daughters will receive scholarships in basketball and volleyball, barring an injury.
    We have come so far and we can’t be stopped now!

  • creeper

    “At current rates, women could pass men in total advanced degrees this year, even though they still trail significantly in several categories such as business, science and engineering.

    You don’t supposed this is a result of having been told by asshat  Larry Summers that girls can’t do that kind of stuff, do you? 

    Joe (and Phil) Niekro are better men than Summers ever thought of being.

    On my lengthy list of things I despise about Barry, Larry Summers’ appointment is in the top five.

  • HC123

    Nice article!

    I will attend my first baseball game of my own free will if this young lady plays.

    If that makes me sexist, so be it.

  • Ani

    Amy,

    This is a beautiful story — thanks so much for you hard work!

    And as to the pay issue, the more this is brought to the forefront, the greater the awareness and possibility of people speaking outy about it.  The last quote I believe was that women are still earning 77 cents on the dollar.  Perhaps SOMEDAY we can expect parity in pay.  A woman can dream.

  • Ani

    Larry Summers has no business in that position for a number of reasons, not the least of which is his sexism.  That truly was a bad appointment.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Ani, you said it.  It is so telling of Obama that he put that misogynist into such a prominent position.  I’m glad he is going, but he neevr should have been elevated to that position in the first place.

    Katmoon, are you and Ferrd okay? 

    Sassy, that is SO cool abt your daughter and your granddaughters!  You must be so proud of them!  Wow!

    One of the things abt this story I really liked was that Niekro didn’t treat Chelsea as “almost boy.”  He treated her like a talented girl.  I say that because one of my biggest peeves is the use of sexist language when talking abt women athletes.   Just the other day, I got an email from the Pro Women’s Soccer league.  In it, they discussed how one of the players would have a “man on” most of the time.  There are no MEN on the field of play.  Women soccer players aren’t “almost men” soccer players.  There is no excuse for that kind of language, but it is RAMPANT in women’s (girls’) sports.   Language shapes our reality and for women to constantly yell, “man on!” to another WOMAN sinks in on a deep level.  It needs to stop.

  • Yttik

    Here’s a cool site:

    All-American Girls Professional Baseball League

    This virtual scrapbook is filled with articles, photographs, interviews, and statistics that give you an up-close-and-personal look at the pioneering women who played professional baseball from 1943 through 1954.

    http://www.aagpbl.org/

  • Yttik

    Here’s another article:

    “Some girls will not be swayed. Last year, 1,012 played for high school teams, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations. The actual count may be higher because schools sometimes fail to report girls playing on boys teams. California had the most girls playing baseball (385), and even Massachusetts had 14. But in many states, the high school diamond was a lonely place for girls. Maine, Kentucky and New Hampshire each had two female players. Connecticut reported one.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/sports/baseball/01baseball.html

  • Bronwyn

    THANK YOU, Amy.  Very well said. He craves attention and, since he’s unable to get positive attention, he seeks negative attention.  If we all starve him of what he needs most, he’ll tire of it.  We have blocked his ability to post comments although, sometimes, he manages to get through.  We’re catching those as fast as possible.  Please help us by not responding.

  • Bronwyn

    Amen, sister.  I hope all of the NQ readers heed your advice.

  • Yttik
  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thanks, Yttik!  How cool!!  I appreciate your research on this.  
     
    About “A League of Their Own”:  I loved that movie.  When it came out, I asked my mom why she didn’t tell me abt these women playing baseball.  She replied it was because she didn’t know abt them.  That says a lot, I think.  
     
    Remember how the women had to wear those stupid skirts even though they would tear up their legs sliding into base??  
     
    I am glad women/girls are playing baseball.,   Honestly, it never made sense to me that women threw softballs, which are not soft, and are HUGE, while men threw baseballs.  Huh?  Still, fast pitch pitchers can throw those things as fast as Major Leaguers do with a baseball.   
     
    Thanks, Yttik!

  • honestlawyermostly

    Rev. Amy, how am I supposed to be a tough, hard lawyer, looking forward to each day that I can make other people’s existence a living hell when you go and post a story like this about Chelsea and Niekro???  Here I sit blubbering and feeling like I need to do something nice for someone.  Aw hell.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    ROTFLMAO – sorry HonestLawyerMostly!  :-D

    Check out this video – it will turn the blubbering to cheers:

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Oops – sorry, Bronwyn – didn’t mean to leave you hanging in your response abt not feeding FF.  But yeah – what you said!! 

  • honestlawyermostly

    !!!!

  • Docelder

    This site has written some posts that praised Obama when he did something right. It is just those type of opportunites are probably few and far between. Speaking for myself anyway, they seem few and far between to me. I had hopes that Obama would lead from the center, that he wpuld have to do that to be effective and that he would want to be effective. That hasn’t happened. The thing is, I still think he could do that, even now if he wanted to. Evidently, he doesn’t want to.

  • Docelder

    This site has written some posts that praised Obama when he did something right. It is just those type of opportunites are probably few and far between. Speaking for myself anyway, they seem few and far between to me. I had hopes that Obama would lead from the center, that he would have to do that to be effective and that he would want to be effective. That hasn’t happened. The thing is, I still think he could do that, even now if he wanted to. Evidently, he doesn’t want to.

  • helenk

    thank you for the  link. I just e-mailed to my granddaughter.
    If today’s young ladies only realized and understood the fight that women have had for many years, to try and get respect for their talents and brains and hard work,  they might not be so quick to throw it away.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Docelder

    That and getting a job now isn’t a cakewalk. I imagine it isn’t a cakewalk even for the astroturfers.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    ahs, your comment has ZILCH to do with this post.

  • Lana

    That is truly awesome. Thanks for the video, Amy, and the great post.

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Ani,

    I always marvel at the fact that men have no problem depriving women of what is rightfully there’s — equal pay for equal work — yet, the minute they think they are being treated unfairly, they scream to the rooftops!

    Obviously, no matter how many laws are passed making it illegal to pay women less than men for the same work, unless they are enforced, they are just patrionizing fodder by the patriarchy to shut women up.  What are men afraid of?  Don’t they realize that doing the right thing by the other half of the human race makes life better for us all?  What about that concept don’t they understand?

  • honestlawyermostly

    P.S.  Formely “honestlawyer”, for reasons not necessary to repeat here, I felt compelled to change my screen name.

  • Yttik

    LOL! That video is fabulous!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I figured it was you, but thanks for the qualification.  Reminds me of a “Parenthood” show in which one of the characters said she was a liar.  She said, “No, honey, I’m a LAWYER.”  The point was made that many consider the two terms synonymous…Anyway – thanks!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Glad you like it, Yttik!  You can’t teach that – that sort of thing is just innate, don’t you think?

    Thanks, Lana!!

  • felizarte

    I agree that language has a great influence in the way people think.  But perhaps language also only reflects how society already thinks. I’m glad that my first language does not have a sexist orientation:  no pronoun for he or she, no word for husband or wife, or brother or sister.  And so when I participated in translating the bible into our language, we encountered no problem with the question of whether God was a he or she.  

  • ~~Justme~~

    One of those “once in a lifetime things”

    Great post RRR Amy!

  • oowawa

    There is a wonderful Wikipedia article on the knuckleball.  Among many other interesting bits of info: Joe Niekro, mentioned in Amy’s article, was Phil Niekro’s brother.  Phil, knicknamed “Knucksie,” was a knuckleball pitcher who was inducted into the Hall of Fame.  The article also discusses the mechanics of pitching a knuckler.  Interesting!

  • oowawa

    At the end of the Wiki article mentioned above, there are a bunch of quotes related to the knuckler, which I highly recommend.  2 examples:

    “You don’t catch a knuckleball, you defend against it.” ― Dodgers manager and former catcher Joe Torre“Trying to hit against Phil Niekro is like trying to eat Jell-O with chopsticks“. ― All-star outfielder Bobby Murcer

  • Cindy

    Rev. Amy— “honest lawyer mostly” is my hubby.
    See what I have to put up with??! :)

     Thanks for the WONDERFUL post! great story!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    You’re welcome, Cindy!

    And I know – I could tell from his great sense of humor!  Teehee.  No, seriously, I saw that you mentioned that the other day.  I am so glad your hubby has joined you here.  Yay!!

  • oowawa

    Gotta highlight one more:

    “Throwing a knuckleball for a strike is like throwing a butterfly with hiccups across the street into your neighbor’s mailbox.” ― Hall of Famer Willie Stargell

  • creeper

    felizarte, that’s fascinating.  What language is that? 

  • creeper

    WOW!

  • Onofre’s arm

    LOL oowawa, that’s been one of my favorite baseball quotes for some time now.

  • ~~Justme~~

    Huh honestlawyermostly been a bad boy then! :)  and welcome.

  • Citizen Jane

    Thanks for the great story about Chelsea and Niekro. Baseball is the best sport for spectators, no doubt. And the special skills that are required at each position, with good hitters also having to field well – it’s really a treat to watch. But I like it especially because I love how MLB pitchers are built. 8-)

    And this man is not too shabby either…
    http://pujolsjunkie.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/utley_wallpaper_02_800.jpg
    Chase Utley, universally acknowledged power hitter and blessed with a great ass.

    On a more serious note, I think disparity in women’s pay is due in large part to us cheating ourselves when negotiating salaries, especially right at the start.

    Back to Chelsea – any youtubes or video of her in action?

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Citizen Jane,

    I respectfully disagree that women cheat themselves when negotiating for salary.  Many times, the salary is already set and the woman either chooses to accept it or not get the job. 

    I can’t believe that the pay disparity is on such a large scale because women don’t negotiate as well as men and will not put the blame on women for this ongoing injustice. 

  • honestlawyermostly

    How true.  The pressure was too great.  Now I’m got some slack.

  • felizarte

    all Philippine languages.  my own language here: cuyonon.org

  • Citizen Jane

    I’ve had occasion to see internal HR documents for open reqs. There’s a range that is set, the dollar figure isn’t written in stone. If you research salaries online, you’ll usually get a range. And it’s not a small range, either. There can be a differential of up to 25 per cent. So how would you know what to ask for when you apply? You could go by what you’ve earned at your prior job, but then you’d be constrained by what you had initially asked for at that job.

    This is not a question of assigning blame to anyone. It’s a matter of education and learning what one’s skills can command in any given job market. One aspect of a woman’s self-empowerment is to become informed about what the market will bear. And not just women, any individual who wants to advance themselves. For instance, in the graphic design field, I’ve known female freelancers who charge twice what a male counterpart does – and they do similar work.

    Probably the one profession that has parity is nursing. There are more males entering the field, they most likely are earning about the same starting salaries as their female counterparts. The corporate world, however is quite the jungle.

    So, Kathleen, did you like my Chase Utley pic?

  • sowsear

    Years ago when I was a teacher, we were given raises according to a set salary scale. This was well before unions and we had what they charmingly called  Teachers’ Meetings to discuss our concerns. Once when I mentioned that it was totally unfair that some of the men were receiving “bonuses” added to their salaries, I was told that they had families to support…. That was not always the case as everyone there knew.

  • Boxer Mum 06

    I wonder why women tend to be so critical towards each other – this too may be part of the reason for the pay difference. We saw this with Hillary and Sarah’s treatment. Some of the crudest comments came from other women. When women start to realize they are all on the same team first, maybe they will respect each other more.

    It still perplexes me how all these women in the news lately from the liasons with Tiger Woods and Jesse James – is there no shame anymore in sleeping with someone else’s husband? How did these women not know they were married? And then to try to sue them because they thought they were the man’s exclusive mistress? You have got to be joking!

    What kind of example are we setting for younger girls? And Gloria Allred the lawyer representing this pieces of garbage. I just shake my head in disbelief sometimes.

  • Citizen Jane

    Yes that was the reason given for the men’s bonuses, overlooking the fact that some of the unmarried female teachers were helping to support parents or siblings, etc. I don’t know if that rationale would fly today, or if it even would be legal.

    I’m currently earning 22 per cent more than my predecessor at this job. Did my employer decide to award me that differential out of the goodness of their heart? No…when they asked me what my salary requirements were, I told them. The person who had this position prior to me might think this unjust. I don’t see it that way, I just had a different idea of what my skills were worth, and my employer agreed with me.

    Now the next one who does this job might get even more money for doing the same work…all I can say is more power to him or her.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Yes, there is a range paid from utlity players to pitchers in the Big Leagues, but even then, what many of the bench players make is FAR higher than what most pro. women athletes make.  Amazing.

    I agree abt baseball – just fiished watching my beloved Yanks on my computer (I subscribe to MLB.com).  Baseball season makes me very happy.

    And I will be even happier when I can see people like Chelsea play!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Cool!  You make an excellent point, too, felizarte – that language also reflects the culture.  Well said!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I remember the first time I saw a knuckleballer throw.  It is SO different from the windup of a fastball pitcher.  It looks like they are just tossing it in there.  But then you see all of that movement – wow.  Can you believe this girl can do that from centerfield??  Amazing… 
     
    I really like that the Niekro boys were on the same teams, coincedentally, my two faves (Yanks and Braves).  
     
    Thanks for the links, oowawa!

  • Katmoon

    I’m sorry Oowawa, I am playing catch up, we are fine just a messy yard and some wet things to pick up, driving was horrible on Monday, but survived it, and we kept losing power off and on all weekend. The kids were in the part of KY, where it began to flood as well, but I guess Ft. Campbell is on higher ground or something, and the brother in Clarksville is safe as well, somehow, we were not hit near and far. Nashville is another story as well as some small rural areas nearby; trust people here are great with helping each other, alot of that and thanking those who have come to help as well. It is suppose to rain like crazy again this weekend, hope it isn’t  as bad, nearly 2 inches an hour in some places.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    EXCELLENT question, Boxer Mum.  I wonder that, too.  Women were/are VERY hard on Sarah Palin.  Why?  When you ask them, they say she’s stupid, an idiot, etc., etc.  How, then, did she become governor of a state?  There are only 50 openings in the entire country, so she can’t be a total moron to achieve that level. 

    And, apparently, as a woman, she should NOT be making millions from speaking engagements, even though many men do it all the time.  Talk abt your double standard.

    As for women sleeping with other women’s husbands, of course, it is a two-way street.  Why is HE cheating on his wife?  In the case of stars, though, of course everyone knows they are married.  Maybe it’s power or fame these mistresses seek.  Who knows – it’s flat out wrong on both sides.

    Oh, right – isn’t Allred representing David Boreanz’s mistress, too?

  • Katmoon

    I know RRAmy, so glad we have another Husband wife team! :*

  • Katmoon

    I believe it is difficult to make the this or that choice as a woman, so we try to have our feet in both worlds; I am referring to being a strong woman brings on the vicious, and vulgar smearing of a female person…as we know women are not strong, no we are Bitchy(sarc.) Add that to a world with what appears to be empty of a moral compass, and you have the go along to get along mentality creeping in like some kind of illness.  I have and will always feel, you should never be allowed to see a person you are hiring, and may only have access to informatin about their work standards, history and ethics; no way then to prejudge by any other factor other than qualifications. But hell we live in a world where some people actually think a gay soldier is somehow different than any other soldier; this makes for stupid arguments wating tax payers money and harming a great many people. Simple labor law, employmen tinterviews and applications do not allow for identifying a person, they are purely based on aiblity. I must be having a reality rift…. Ok, now where are my rainbows, ponies, and that duck that turns into a swan…   =-O  

  • JLF

    And I let him talk me into a lousy career and STILL named my oldest son after him.  What does that make me?

  • sowsear

    Who is that gloved girl? I want to shake her hand!

  • oowawa

    Thanks for the report, Katmoon.  Glad you’re okay!

  • sowsear

    RRR3,
    Are you old enough to remember Johnny Logan, shortstop? From my hometown, played for the Braves (with Matthews and Aaron, etc.)

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Citizen Jane,

    I’m just not satisifed with the lack of enforcement of equal pay.  Your individual experience is not indicative of a cross-section of America when it comes to salaries for women in comparison to men.

    Women are still not at a place where they can negotiate salary and be given the same kind of respect as men are given for “negotiating” up on what is being offered because HR is told what to offer by the CFO, who is more often than not, a man.  The reality is that the stats are just not in the woman’s favor when it comes to getting equal pay.  That will come when more women are in positions of power, both in business and politics.

    No doubt, Chase looks real good in that picture, but I’m a Boston Red Sox Fan!

  • sowsear

    And as I recall one of Tiger’s friends was trying to get pregnant.. Oh, why not, it’s money in the bank. No such thing as a mistake in that dept. anymore.

  • Boxer Mum 06

    Agreed it is a two way street in that it is also the man’s fault but if women had a bit more self-respect and didn’t throw themselves at these men maybe things would be a bit different.

    Yes, she is representing David Boreanz’s mistress too – speculation it is Rachel U..whatever her name is – Tiger’s numero uno that was texting with his wife on Thanksgiving. He paid her millions to keep her mouth shut in what I think was to keep Elin out of this.

    Oh and let’s not forget Rielle Hunter. Geez, the list is long and longer by the breaking story :)

  • sowsear

    Did anyone see “ball girl”s name? Does she plasy baseball?

  • sowsear

    Johnny Logan

  • creeper

    Thank you, felizarte.  Tagalog and Spanish were the only languages I knew that are spoken in the Philippines. 

    The Cuyonon website was an eye-opener.  I liked the fact that the majority of it is in the Cuyonon language.  It was sad to see the monument that had been destroyed by port improvements.  That should not have happened.

    May the Cuyonon Language and Culture Project thrive.  Thanks again for educating us.

    Oh, and while I’m running my fingers, I’d like mention that the Philippines elected a woman president twenty-four years ago.  Here, of course, we’re still waiting.

  • oowawa

    I think the “Men in Black” should pay her a visit–alien life forms blowing their cover like that in front of thousands of people is simply not acceptable!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Me, too, Katmoon.  Thanks for the report!!  Glad everyone is okay…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I couldn’t find any videos, CJ.  Hopefully now that there’s this article, someone will get one up!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Well, I was born by then (’58), but no, I don’t know him.I have already read abt him at Wikipedia, though. 

    Shortstop is a great position – my fave, Derek Jeter’s, position!

  • felizarte

    Thanks creeper and y’all. English is one of the official languages. The Philippine political system has many flaws, one of them a system that encourages or allows so much corruption to exist.  But gender politics is not one of them.  No man would dare say that women cannot have equal say in politics–they’d get it from the wives, daughters, nieces, etc.

    I always wonder why, in an “advanced” society like the United States, women are still fighting for equal rights and still could not have a qualified woman elected president. I might add that women in the Philippines voted the first time there was an election in 1898 before the Philippines became a colony of the USA and how many Americans realize that the Philippines was the one and only colony of the USA– from 1898 to 1946.

  • Citizen Jane

    Women with full-time jobs now have weekly earnings equal to 80.2 percent of what men earn, up slightly from 2008 but lower than a high of 81 percent in 2005.
    Is this metric based on pay for comparable work done? Or did they just come up with an average salary earned by all men v. the same for women. Because that could make a difference in the outcome.

    even though they still trail significantly in several categories such as business, science and engineering.

    So are men majoring in subjects that result in higher salaries when they graduate?

    RRRA, it stands to reason that MLB players earn higher salaries than pro women athletes, because the revenues their organizations generate are significantly higher than any pro women’s outfits. Citizen Bank’s Park regularly sells out its 44k + seat stadium, not to mention commissions from all its concessions, merchandise licensing agreements, all the profit that attends a successful major league baseball franchise. The players’ salaries are higher because the Phils are a profitable enterprise that can afford to pay more – as are the Yankees.

    There are economic realities and market forces driving the inconsistencies and difference in pay. If the women pros could command the same audience and network participation as the best baseball teams, there would be a significant uptick in their pay. (You mentioned the exceptions of tennis and golf – yes those sports have huge audiences, ergo the big bucks for Serena et al.)

     If Chelsea ever makes it to the bigs, let’s hope she has an astute agent who can get her a great deal.

    Women are the primary breadwinner in increasingly more households. In fact, this recession has created a situation where the woman is the only breadwinner, since the man is laid off. We’ve made great advances in the working world over the past three decades. IMO it’s less productive to get in a mind-space of the permanently aggrieved than to find out what our skills are worth and go out and get ‘r done.

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