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Democracy, Plutocracy and Useful Idiots

Editor’s Note: Jim Marcinkowski, a former county prosecutor and attorney, is well-known to NoQuarter readers as the CIA classmate of Larry Johnson and Valerie Plame Wilson who spoke before Congress and in many media interviews following the exposure of Valerie Plame Wilson. The former FBI agent and Navy veteran was the 2008 Democratic candidate for Michigan’s 8th district.

Are we a democracy?  

Democracy:  government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system  

Or have we become a plutocracy?

Plutocracy:  the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy; a government or state in which the wealthy class rules; a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.   

The answer is – plutocracy.

Now before you get all exercised and reach down inside and start spewing forth the usual partisan tags and talking points, you should know that this is not my opinion alone.  In fact, it is the opinion of CitiBank.  In a recently discovered, March 5, 2006, Industry Note, Citibank explained in detail how the U.S. has turned itself into a plutocracy.  While you should take the time to read the entire 18 page paper, if you don't, here is a portion of the summary:  

The latest Survey of Consumer Finances, for 2004, has been released by the Federal Reserve.  It shows that the rich continue to account for a disproportionate share of income and wealth in the U.S. economy: the richest 10% of Americans account for 43% of income, and 57% of net worth.  The net worth to income ratio for the richest 10% of Americans increased from 7.4x in 2001, to 8.4x, in the 2004 survey.
  

And from the body of the Report:  

These economies (the U.S., U.K., Canada, and Australia) have seen the rich take an increasing share of income and wealth over the past 20 years, to the extent that the rich now dominate income, wealth and spending in these countries.  

Also, new media dissemination technologies… have disproportionately increased the audiences and hence gains to "superstars" – think golf, soccer, and baseball players, music/TV and movie icons, fashion models, designers, celebrity chefs, etc.  These "content" providers, the tech whizzes who own the pipes and distribution, the lawyers and bankers who intermediate globalization and productivity, and the CEO's who lead the charge in converting globalization and technology to increase the profit share of the economy at the expense of labor, all contribute to plutonomy….the top 10%, particularly the top 1% of the US – the plutonomists in our parlance - have benefited disproportionately from the recent productivity surge in the US.  

[The entire 18 page CitiBank Report can be read here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674229/Citigroup-Mar-5-2006-Plutonomy-Report-Part-2

While there are those who espouse the virtues of Adam Smith’s “invisible hand” this same group apparently turn a blind eye to the other more visible hand of lobbying and political spending by corporate, banking, and income elites who have not only gamed the system by derailing effective regulation but in many instances have been able to legalize conduct that a mere generation ago would have been deemed unethical, if not outright criminal, behavior. 

Of course the Congress of the United States is responsible for allowing the continued pilfering from the middle class.  But what is perhaps more intriguing, or downright mystifying, is why members of that same middle class take to the streets to demonstrate for actions that benefit the elite at the expense of their own self-interest.  Examples of such irrational group behavior are many:   

  

  • protesting government regulation, while mines with thousands of safety violations recently killed 31 people;

 

  • supporting "Drill Baby Drill," while the oil companies, that saved $500,000 per well by not installing the latest safety mechanisms as mandated by other countries, created a disaster in the Gulf of Mexico that will likely wipe out hundreds if not thousands of small businesses dependent on the Gulf for their livelihood.

 

  • arguing for less income taxes (for the rich), even though the highest income earner's tax brackets have already been reduced from near 90% in 1960, to around 38% today;

 

  • advocating for elimination of the estate tax even though it could reasonably be assumed that few to none of the protesters have estates worth anywhere near $2 million;

 

  • protesting against "socialized medicine" even though it would appear from viewing the many videos, that many of the protesters are themselves the recipients of the largest socialized medicine program in the U.S. - Medicare!

 

  • and, even after witnessing perhaps the greatest theft in American history, inexplicably support the privatization of social security so we can put more of our hard-earned money into the hands of the same Wall Street thugs who looted billions of dollars from our retirement accounts.

 

If the stated aims of these groups were to be achieved, the most likely result would be further massive increases in corporate income and the personal wealth of a literal handful of Americans to the great detriment of the very people who have been propagandized into espousing policies that will create a further diminution of their own income and economic security.  It is like a group of sheep fighting with each other to be first in line at the slaughterhouse, to the extreme delight, no doubt, of those who will benefit from the mutton.  

Come to think of it, CitiBank may just have helped us learn the modern day definition of a "useful idiot."  

Jim Marcinkowski

  • Ferd Berfle

    I respectfully disagree as we are a Representative Republic, Constitutionally, and not a Democracy. That being said, plutocracy or perhaps oligarchy is a better way to descsribe our current mess. I do, though, agree that the estate tax should remain so that everyone starts with the same bootstraps with which to pull themselves up–you know, the type of individualism everyone talks about but doesn’t actually emulate unless they’re forced to by circumstance–no head start for those with money (if we honor rugged individualism as an asset, then one must be an individual and make it on their own). I further concur with your statement that corporations are not paying enough. These corporations yield enormous benefit from laws enforced by the US Government and should pay accordingly. I further think that everyone should pay something, even if a pittance, so that everyone has a monetary stake in this Republic (especially since money seems to be the driving issue in anything and everything nowdays).

  • Tricia

    I enojyed this post.  One of my friends calls what is going on a kleptocracy–all that is going on as you say, Jim, but adding that it was stelthfully stolen as well.

  • My other site

    We are a democracy since the administration of Andrew Jackson.  We were a republic until that time.  Now our “representatives” are not elected by the state senate, they are elected by popular vote.  Our government is also based on the Lockean principle that a government can only be implemented by the consent of the governed.

    That is the true principle at stake in the illegal debate.  The U. S. electorate consented to the current immigration laws.  The American electorate never consented to importing a voting majority of people illegally from foreign countries.  It has only happened because the last two administrations have refused to enforce the existing laws the American electorate consented to through their representatives.  Obama cannot get his amnesty and open border passed by the majority of the American voters’ representatives, so the only other way would be to hold a national referendum.  He won’t do that for the same reason he wouldn’t hold a re-vote in Michigan and Florida.  He knows he would lose.  If the U. S. gets a hispanic majority through anchor babies, it will be because the federal government did not enforce the law and it will be illegal.  If the feds can force an illegal hispanic majority on Americans, they can force anything they want on Americans.  This is the danger of the CIR.

  • My other site

    Oh, and I should say the popular vote is Universal Manhood Sufferage which since Wilson includes women, so we truly are a democracy.  The Constitution has been amended to support it.

  • jwrjr

    Ferd is correct in that constitutionally the US is a Representative Republic.  But the author is correct in that as the rich use their money to bribe the “representatives” to represent them at the expense of the non-rich, we are, at best, a Plutocracy.

  • My other site

    I could also write ad nauseum about pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps.  That is a fallacy in the U. S. and has been for at least a century and a half.  Every successful person in the U. S. got help from someone somewhere, family, agencies, something.  I object to any further tax increases until we have transparency and the system is purged of wasteful tax supported programs.  Stop subsidizing oil, corporate farms, logging, etc.  Stop paying people not to work or to have babies.  Stop unnecessary wars that cost billions.  Stop sending billions to foreign countries who don’t make any progress with the money, stop paying people to practice a certain religion or live in a certain neighborhood, stop paying people to go to college just because they are in the country illegally.  Just a few suggestions.

  • Ferd Berfle

    I concur. Perhaps I wasn’t clear, jwrjr. Mea culpa.

  • AC

    The United States has never been a Democracy (otherwise know as “mob rule”) and it looks more and more like a corporate oligarchy but was supposed to be a Republic–remember the “Pledge of Allegiance“.  I”ll read the post now as the first couple of paragraphs prompted this immediate response.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Every successful person in the U. S. got help from someone somewhere, family, agencies, something.
    =========================
    Not true. My Father left me nothing but his good name and many a lesson in what it is to be an American. Not everyone in this country feels entitled to be born with a silver spoon, particularly me. I made it on my own. It is one thing to have an opinion and quite another to blanket me with it. I stand by my comment.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Every successful person in the U. S. got help from someone somewhere, family, agencies, something. 
    ========================= 
    Not true. My Father left me nothing but his good name and many a lesson in what it is to be an American. Not everyone in this country feels entitled to be born with a silver spoon, particularly me. I made it on my own. It is one thing for you to opine but quite another to blanket me with it. I stand by my comment

  • Ferd Berfle

    Every successful person in the U. S. got help from someone somewhere, family, agencies, something.  
    =========================  
    Not true. My Father left me nothing but his good name and many a lesson in what it is to be an American. Not everyone in this country feels entitled to be born with a silver spoon in their mouth, particularly me. I made it on my own. It is one thing for you to opine but quite another to blanket me with it. I stand by my comment

  • Yttik

    “advocating for elimination of the estate tax even though it could reasonably be assumed that few to none of the protesters have estates worth anywhere near $2 million”

    This one always makes me laugh and scratch my head. Last summer we had a “no to the estate tax” table set up in front of Wal Mart. Wal Mart! People were signing the petitions like crazy. Nobody, not one of those people were ever going to have to deal with the estate tax in any way. What they should be worried about is medicaid recapture. You go into a nursing home on state aid and the Gov will take your home to compensate themselves for your care.  Most working class and poor people have never heard of it. They’re too busy worrying about the estate tax that doesn’t even apply to them.

  • AC

    “A Democracy since Andrew Jackson” where do you come up with this? Where and when has the Constitution been amended to define this government as a Democracy? That illegal immigrant stuff belongs on another post doesn’t it?

  • Ferd Berfle

    The United States has never been a Democracy
    ==========================
    You are quite correct. The Constitution has not been amended to change that, either. I don’t know where people get that idea.

  • EllenD

    in many instances have been able to legalize conduct that a mere generation ago would have been deemed unethical, if not outright criminal, behavior.

    I remember. I bet most of you do too.

    However the U.S. saw the era of Robber Barons and subsequently managed to correct that abuse. So I am ever hopeful that we will recognize and elevate the heroes among us who are capable of doing it again.

    Elizabeth Warren is my hero. PLease add yours.

  • AC

    “It is like a group of sheep fighting with each other to be first in line at the slaughterhouse, to the extreme delight, no doubt, of those who will benefit from the mutton.”  Well stated Mr  Marcinkowski

  • Ferd Berfle

    For lack of a better phrase, yttik, “no sh*t”. The smoke-and-mirror campaign going on here is merely a diversion.

  • AC

    Ferd, had I read your initial comment, mine would seem so redundant.

  • AC

    Would also have been nice for My other site to define “successful person”.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Interesting that your “other moniker” is Tek, a name with which I am familiar. Why the change?

  • Ferd Berfle

    Redundant is not an adjective I would ever use to describe a comment of yours, AC. I always look forward to reading them.

    Ferd

  • betty

    The only chance we have of getting ahead of these enslavers is to take money out of the equation and that can’t/won’t be done with campaign finance reform (even if any existing representative would vote for meaningful reform)  

    We need to randomly pick a Representative from a pool of people living in the congressional district.  And that person, guided and limited by the constitution, and by polling the people living in the district needs to vote accordingly. 

  • Docelder

    I used to really like Horatio Alger type of stories. The ones where somebody starts with nothing… has the idea to make or buy and sell things and becomes wealthy. I have serious doubts anymore how viable that is today. Corporations pretty much control everything congress does. The laws pretty much wind up being exactly what corporations want them to be. Today for somebody like “Mark the match boy” to do well he would have to find some really small niche markets to exploit. Else the corporations or their government shills would shut him down before he really even got started. We really are killing off the “American dream”.

  • Docelder

    Just one idea on the article, there is happy middle ground between corporatism and socialism. It is called capitalism. The author seems to hint that if one doesn’t accept socialistic ideas about wealth and income, then you become a useful idiot somehow. I don’t believe that, and I think the line is drawn here in the wrong place. The opposite of socialism is more like corporatism. Corporatism is what we are seeing today. Capitalism is more the happy middle ground. I wish we would try it.

    I used to really like Horatio Alger type of stories. The ones where somebody starts with nothing… has the idea to make or buy and sell things and becomes wealthy. I have serious doubts anymore how viable that is today. Corporations pretty much control everything congress does. The laws pretty much wind up being exactly what corporations want them to be. Today for somebody like “Mark the match boy” to do well he would have to find some really small niche markets to exploit. Else the corporations or their government shills would shut him down before he really even got started. We really are killing off the “American dream”.

  • Peggy Sue

    Thank you for the article, Mr. Marcinkowski.  Plutocracy, rule of the oligarchs, or in some circles, kleptocracy.  Whatever, we’re being led to our own demise by a small circle of well-heeled greed and power mongers.  How interesting that Citibank states it so clearly. Nothing like hearing the fox smacking his lips over the chicken coop.

    So, now we have the title[s], the next step is what do we do about it?  I suggested yesterday and you’ve reiterated here that unless the electorate wakes up and realizes that they’re voting against their own self-interests, nothing will change.  Sheeple, Inc. is leading us, the shrinking middle class, to ruin.  And without a vigorous, informed middle-class there is no Democratic Republic, simply the muddy road to serfdom. 

  • jwrjr

    Mostly I just summarized what you said, and agreed with it.

  • jwrjr

    This describes what may be the most toxic fallacy in popular use today.  I.E. that a person’s value is measured by his/her bank balance.  Thoreau stated that he was richer than J. Paul Getty because he (Thoreau) had all the money that he wanted and Getty didn’t.

  • Ferd Berfle

    These oligarchs, corporatists, or whatever the name took a page form Karl Marx himself by giving us their own version of opiate for the masses–it’s called entertainment and it’s on the teevee 24-hours a day, 7 days a week. Why worry about your problems when there’s trouble afoot with the Housewives of Atlanta? And if you’re not into that claptrap, there’s Neanderthal aplenty on the 21st century version of the Roman Coliseum on Spike TV. Hot damn, where’s my brew? Wow.

  • honestlawyermostly

    This useful idiot may be walking to the front of the mutton line, but I respectfully disagree.  The fact that I chant “drill baby drill” does not mean that I am in favor of government regulation that is sold to the highest bidder.  It means simply that to me, exploitation of our natural resources is preferable to being held hostage by imported oil.  In a just world, every member of the government that allowed BP to bypass regulations should be exiled to a dark room and forced to listen to Obama speeches 24/7.  The fact that I protest increases in the estate tax or income taxes that may never affect me personally does not mean that my heart bleeds for Oprah Doesn’t Do Stairs Winfrey; instead, it is consistent with a simple belief that government already taxes too much— it has to stop.  The fact that I oppose Obamacare does not mean I want to abolish Medicare; it means simply that I think government control over anything always shifts things toward the lowest common denominator, and I would prefer that the government not screw up healthcare any more than it already has.  The phrase “adequate healthcare” could only be considered a good thing by government.  The rich always will control the government.  It is a reality we cannot change.  To me– it is such a cliche– the goal should be to reduce the size and reach of the government that is controlled by the rich, and regain more control over our own, possibly idiotic, lives. 

  • helenk

    I am not sure what to call  today’s government. Sometimes I think they are a bigger enemy of the American people than Ben Ladin. He can have a group blow up buildings, this government seems to want to take away what rights and money the average American citizen has and is in a position to do so.
    I would like to see just one year where GE pays as much in taxes as the average American citizen.
    I would like to see one congress critter read and understand a bill before passing it,  Make sure that it helps America not hurt her, That is what their pay check is for

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • helenk

    1 month ago The majority across both supposed sides of the aisle in DC….RCC
    The majority in all Presidential Cabinets since the late 50′s…the RCC
    The majority in the Supreme Court…the RCC
    Obama, got his start under the auspices of Papal Knights of Malta Annenberg and Brzenzski.
    No strategy of tension…just ongoing subversion of the Republic from her age old enemies…the errant nobility and the divine rights crowd.

    This was a comment  by abbesieys under the YOU TUBE  Gods Of Government. The last sentence makes so much sense.
    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS
    PUMAS, BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Murray

    Ferd – God love ya -
    You sound like my elderly parents.  (Wonderful people).  Dad’s dad was killed when Dad was 10, and left him with a dirt farm and 3 sisters.  Mom was the 2nd of 9 (that lived).

    Now, they are quite educated and successful.  They wonder why I’ve had such “troubles.” 

    For starters:

    1) Dad was a WWII veterans.  LOTSA government benefits, including “sweetheart” loan deals, enabling him to use the money he saved while in the service to buy land, and get a college education (he retired as the respected Superintendant of the school district.

    2) Mom got her BSE by teaching for 5 years after college, so she didn’t have to pay it back.

    I, however, struggled on-&-off for 8 years to get a 4-year degree, and spent the next 10 years paying for it.

    Just TRY to tell my folks that a large part of their success was because of government money.  Well-managed, yes, but they did have much more help than I.

    Sorry, but you pushed a button.

  • surfered

    Despite all the polishing of the history of our country’s beginning, the founding fathers were plutocrats.  Only rich, white men had power or could vote or hold office.  George Washington was one of the richest men in America.  Many who joined the Revolutionary army did not do so for ideological reasons, they did so for financial gain.

  • TeakWoodKite

    mmmmm Mutton! Dhoh!

    What  AC said.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    O/T  US court grants asylum to Obama’s African aunt

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100517/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_s_aunt

  • Ferd Berfle

    Well, Murray, my Father would have been 102 years old last January. He lived through the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma (but didn’t leave), the Great Depression, served as a Cavalry officer when it was still on horseback, and was an Attorney. He asked for nothing from anyone and received nothing. As far as he was concerned, he made his money and it was his–not mine or my other three brothers. I’m good with that. As I said, I made it on my own. No complaints and no whining. I expect no less from others.

  • sowsear

    My husband and I were both born during the Great Depression, were poor growing up, worked our way through college, and now consider ourselves to be successful.
     It took me eight years, struggling to help not only myself but my family, for me to get through college.. I have to admit that my family was on welfare part of that time and social services forced me to quit college and come home to add my salary to their upkeep.
    Yes, my husband and I will have money to leave to our three children—if Obama doesn’t find a way to take it away from  us, and I’ll be damned if we can’t do with our money what we want to. We worked hard, never lived lavishly, and saved it for our children and their children, too. If any of them get a step up from what we leave them, that is right by our thinking.

  • sowsear

    My husband and I were both born during the Great Depression, were poor growing up, worked our way through college, and now consider ourselves to be successful.  
     It took me eight years, struggling to help not only myself but my family, for me to get through college.. I have to admit that my family was on welfare part of that time and social services forced me to quit college and come home to add my salary to their upkeep.  
    Yes, my husband and I will have money to leave to our three children—if Obama doesn’t find a way to take it away from  us, and I’ll be damned if we can’t do with our money what we want to. We worked hard, never lived lavishly, and saved it for our children and their children, too. If any of them gets a step up from what we leave them, that is right by us.

  • jwrjr

    What do we do about it?  There’s the rub.  As the system now stands, the ones who can change the system are the very ones who profit (literally) from having the system the way it is.  If the system is ever repaired, the Historians will find it fascinating.  Those of us who have to live through it, not so much.  It is a pity that the Founding Fathers did not include a requirement for Public Campaign financing while making outside “contributions” illegal.

  • Ferd Berfle

    1) Dad was a WWII veterans. 
    ===============
    I should have added this to my earlier post:

    So he earned whatever the government returned to him as a reward for his honorable service. I, too, served and went to college under the old GI Bill. I earned that benefit by serving in a hellhole called Wildflecken for two years, seven months, and one day.

    Anyone who serves this country deserves our respect, our gratitude, and benefits commensurate with the sacrifice made.

  • sowsear

    That was a foregone conclusion….Do you think Obama will pay for her support?

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Larry, how do feel about Jim’s characterization that you are a “useful idiot”? At least as far as your hating of the progressive tax system.

    I for one have commented that the belief regulations are detrimental to ”Free Markets” and the invisible hand are nonsense.

    Joe Public has to obey all sorts of laws every day just to get to work, to the bank, and to the market. Until Obamacare’s mandate no one could say we were not a free people.

    Yet, business and industry want us to belive they need anarchy in order to florish. They say any regulation is a blow to the “free market” system. I have said time and again that this is bullshit.

    We the people obey laws for an orderly society, business and industry must have and obey laws for an orderly economy, and their feedom will not suffer for it.

    We have all been rightly pissed at the laxity of regulatory oversight of our financial and banking systems.

    Yes most of us here want Drill Baby Drill. But none of us were aware of the extent that the drilling industry was going to cut corners and safety.

    Now that that fact is known, we are calling for the regulators to get off their asses and do their jobs. In fact, on the post about the 60 minutes expose of the Deepwater Horizon disaster I commented that the BP Atlantis platform should be shutdown until engineers finalized the plans and specs, and the platform construction was properly inspected.

    I and damn near all others are PISSED at the lack of regulation and enforcement that allowed the Deepwater and financial disasters.

    There should be an immediate inspection of the failsafe systems that proved to fail on Deepwater for all offshore platforms. The airline industry and military go through this type of drill everytime there is a catastrophic failure of aircraft. 

    Most people here, except Larry, have called for not increasing taxes, and cutting spending. As far as I have read, Larry may be the only one hating on our progressive tax system.

    We, most of us here including me, do not want more social programs when we cannot afford to pay for the programs already in place.

    Medicare, SS, and the progressive tax system all contriuted to the rise of the middle class from the Depression through the 60′s. 

    Before Medicare and SS, most of the elderly ended up destitute, in poor houses, food lines or homeless. 

    Since the ’08 collapse of the financial system, even the proponents of privatizing SS have gone into hiding. No one has been marching for that cause, especialy not the Tea Partiers.

    Free medical care, mortgages and gas for everyone? Great for those in a Hopium induced fantasy world. For the sober amongst us, we as a Nation must be able to pay for the programs our govenment puts in play.

    I certainly am not calling for LESS taxes anywhere. Especially when the debt hole is increasing exponentially.

    But, I am calling for not increasing taxes on businesses at a time when most cannot project what their future financial position will be and hence cannot increase operting costs by hiring workers.

    Usefull idiots? There are a couple of obots squatting here, but it’s pretting insulting to use that moniker for the majority of posts and comments on this site. Jim, you have mischaracterized 99% of the commenters here, and the Tea Party protesters.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Yes Sows, what the people who advocate the inheritance (death) tax always conveniently ignore, are the rights of the people who created the wealth in the first place.   

  • Boxer Mum 06

    Shocker … N O T !!!!

    I’m surprised this story didn’t come out tomorrow so it could be smothered by the election news instead.

  • Docelder

    Much better said than what I tried above. But I read the same inference as to the useful idiots part. That is the kind of logic we get from the bots here, that either you are on the “team” or you are a teabaggin’, Bush hugin’, green toothed hick of a tool of some kind. That kind of logic made “yes we can” a winner in 2008. Damn ridiculous really.

  • EllenD

    I think the INHERITANCE tax is based on old money handing it down from generation to generation, not people who earned it passing it on to their children.
    However, if the argument is that in some places two million is too low to be fair, (New York, LA), then make that argument, but there has to be some type of upper limit.

  • Docelder

    Obama support his aunt? No way. Or his half brother in Kenya who was made a part of one of the books… the guy who lives on $20 a year. Damn. Sell a pair of Mechelles worn once $600 tennis shoes for $20 in yard sale and send the guy the $20 so he can double his standard of living. How ridiculous is this anyway? Our POTUS has an illegal alien aunt and a brother living in a shanty in Africa. You couldn’t even make this stuff up if you tried, it is so ridiculous. Then again, Bill Clinton could have helped his mom on welfare when he was the governor of Arkansas. What is it with these people anyway?

  • Murray

    Ferd:  My Dad also earned all the goodies he received.  I do NOT begrudge him a thing.

    After college, I offered my services to my country.  Alas, Vietnam was winding down and they just didn’t need me.  That does not make my character any less than my Dad’s; neither is my work any less valuable.

    Funny, though…how my Dad will jump & holler to say exactly what you say; that he earned what he got.  As though I am disagreeing.

    My point:  My parents worked hard for what they got, but they got.  All I want is for someone to admit that what they got was from the taxpayers.

  • Docelder

    Obama support his aunt? No way. Or his half brother in Kenya who was made a part of one of the books… the guy who lives on $20 a year. Damn. Sell a pair of Mechelles worn once $600 tennis shoes for $20 in yard sale and send the guy the $20 so he can double his standard of living. How ridiculous is this anyway? Our POTUS has an illegal alien aunt and a brother living in a shanty in Africa. You couldn’t even make this stuff up if you tried, it is so ridiculous.

  • AC

    “I am not sure what to call today’s government”  well helenk, start with assholes and expand on it–be creative and you’ll probably be right.

  • Buzzlatte

    Will admitting that the government give out the benefits change the results?

    worked in industryent until he retired in 1976.

  • Buzzlatte

    Will admitting that your parents got from the government change the outcome?

  • Buzzlatte

    Inheritance tax applies at any time an estate that becomes wealthier than the lowest cutoff.  For many years it was around 640,000 worth of assets.  When that number became fairly commonplace, it was raised to 1 then 1.5 million and now there is no limit until Obama repeals the Bush sponsored amendments.  

    Those that deal with it learn quickly how to work with the law by gifting money or property and placing assets in their childrens’ names, creating trusts, the marital trust, etc.

    More power to them.

  • AC

    Martha a part of the Custis family had all the money.

  • Linda C

    What differentiates us from a “Consitutional Republic” is that we have A Bill of Rights that most “Consitutional Republics do not have.  This is what makes our country a representative democracy not a Constituional Republic

  • Murray

    Buzz -
    Is that a “yes” or “no” question?

    Of course it won’t change the outcome.  What it will do, is to open a conversation (first person to call me Eric Holder gets a phat lip).

    The venerable members of the Greatest Generation, really need to understand that the kids of the Vietnam Generation just didn’t have access to the government’s deep pockets.

    It’s not that we somehow lack strength of character, it’s that the Greatest Generation, in addition to their character, actually did have support. 

    Dad’s family lost the farm while he was away in the Army.  Fortunately, there was a law enacted that said that anyone who lost their farm, could buy it back for what it was sold, with no interest.

    Bad for the family who had purchased and worked the farm while Dad was gone, but good for Dad.

    Yes, he put his life out there and served honorably.  Words cannot express my gratitude for all our brave soldiers.

    Not just soldiers – like I said, Mom got a free education, too.  They just seem to think that, because they were good people, money and opportunities just fell out of the sky.

    Perhaps it’s a lost cause.  My parents got the glory.  I just pay for it.

    (Note to Ferd:  I’m not whining). 

    :-D

  • Murray

    On second thought, Buzz -

    It could change the outcome.  All that government money that’s being handed out now (although to the wrong people) IS going to be paid by future generations.

    Then, it will be our turn to sit & speculate about why this latest generation just can’t get it together, while they’re struggling with JI-NORMOUS taxes.

  • sowsear

    It doesn’t matter what you call it…it’s out of hand and needs to be stopped.

  • sowsear

    Doesn’t the two mil only apply for spouses? Do children get any leeway on what they inherit?

  • sowsear

    Lately we have been advised to “skip a generation”, that grandchildren pay no? or less in taxes. Not sure of this.
    All I know is that we can convert to Roth IRAs this year and the estate tax law will change next year…we don’t know nutin!

  • AC

    “representative democracy” is an axiomatic contradiction –it is non existent.  The United States of America is a REPUBLIC.  Got it!

  • Buzzlatte

    My parents grew up and married during the Depression.  They didn’t take government hand-outs and my mom’s college education came out of their checking account.  My dad was deferred from going into the service in WWII because he was running a ranch, working as a cowboy, and working for the US dept. of agriculture – and yes, he’s ADD and still kicking at 95. He’s heading out to the ranch as I type this although my sister is driving him out.  My mom taught school, helped with the ranch, kept two households going (one in town and one at the ranch), and raised kids.  They would discuss each month which paycheck – hers or his – could go into savings.  Yes, the whole paycheck.  It was doable back then.  There weren’t the commercial pressures to buy this or that or to get the latest toy or vacation back then.

    The kids’ college degrees came out their checking account, too.  We were required to pay for our own living expenses while they paid tuition.  It meant that we had to have a job in addition to going to school full-time. It was doable then.  All of us appreciate the the confidence they had in us to be movers and shakers.

    There was a school of thought going around in the 1970′s that the boomer kids were not going to be as well off than their parents. I had friends take that as a sign of not needing to achieve anything.  Now, they wonder where their youth went and why they have little money to retire on.  But, hey, they spent time in Mexico and Figi and got degrees in Parks and Recreation.  I never did that.  I was stupid enough to believe that I was supposed to work for a future. 

    Thank goodness my beloved didn’t buy the meme either and worked his azz off to get a college degree, build a successful business, become financially set, and now can do whatever he wants. Interestingly, he still likes to work more than vacationing.  I worked in education in many different capacities and have a retirement.  I like to create art now that I have the time.

    He was raised in a staunch Republican home where taking government handouts was not even a consideration.  I was raised in a staunch FDR Democrat home where you worked to put money in your retirement and Social Security accounts.

    Yes, we dealt with inflation, gas prices from the seventies, the Carter 21% interest rates,  the tight 1980′s, but no where in there was anything that said you couldn’t earn the money to cover expenses.  It was a matter of how much effort you were willing to put out, stick to a plan, and hold off on the pleasures and toys until the bank accounts were big enough to hedge against financial upheavals.

    Somewhere the message that each of us is responsible for our own care and keeping got lost.  Where did it go?

  • andysf

    They may not have the money now, but what’s preventing them from having it in the future? I was looking at $2 million as a unrealistic goal 15 years ago with nothing but 10k in credit card debt. But with hard work and good old inflation, $2 million just isn’t what it crack up to be. It cost you almost a million just to buy a livable home here in SF. I am not sure I should leave all of my net worth to the government so that they can give them away as welfare instead of the little girl that I love. I honestly believed that anything is possible for those who dedicated their mind and effort to it. So why are people bashing the American dream just because they are still on their way?

  • propertius

    I rather doubt this, since Thoreau died 30 years before Getty was born. Perhaps you are thinking of someone else.

  • Yttik

    Two million is the deduction you get to keep free and clear of the estate tax. In 2009 the deduction for couples was 7 million.

    I’m not advocating for or against it, I’m just scratching my head about the way people who will be lucky to have earned a million over their entire lifetimes have been brainwashed into thinking this tax will somehow affect them.

  • helenk

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysler_repayment;_ylt=AiXeMj8fD28Skmd29PFeJa6g.qF4;_ylu=X3oDMTNhMjM0bHQ2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTE3L3VzX2NocnlzbGVyX3JlcGF5bWVudARjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzQEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawN0cmVhc3VyeXRha2U-

    This is why I pay more taxes then GE.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • My other site

    During Andrew Jackson’s administration he successfully steered universal manhood sufferage through Congress.  Now, you don’t have to own property, don’t have to be a white male twenty-one years old.  Under successive administrations amendments were passed to allow women to vote, changed the age to 18 and finally with the Civil Rights Act of 1966 African Americans rights were finally enforced.  So, on paper we are a democracy.

    The illegal immigration question is appropriate here because the heart of the issue is whether or not this country is a democracy where the majority of the electorate decides what the law is or whether a special interest or tyrannical ruler decides.  It’s too bad a lot of Americans aren’t seeing that important aspect of the issue and continue to see it as a humanitarian issue or purely political issue.

  • My other site

    I didn’t change it; the site changed it.

  • My other site

    And what difference does it make?

  • My other site

    See, you answered this yourself.  Your parents left you with good values and a good example and good work ethic.

  • My other site

    I guess what you’re really saying is that you don’t want me on this site so bye!

  • andysf

    My point is that no one likes to have their hard work tax twice. It doesn’t matter if they are currently in the position to be taxed.
    To me, the estate tax is a completely different animal from corporate tax or income tax. It’s one thing if you tax the hell out of those wall street crooks.

    Also, I am a firm believer that any of those people could be in position to earn millions if they but their heart and soul to it and develop good financial habits. As an old Chinese saying, I wouldn’t make fun of some one’s success if they are still young.

    To have a better life and brighter future is the American dream, people should not be laughed at for having big dream. The liberal had done too much to make this a nation of naysayers. We need to take back the “Yes We Can” from O and his bots.

  • Ani

    Jim,

    Thanks very much for your article.  A couple of points…

    I do not know of anyone who supports privating Social Security — I certainly do not want any of SSI put into the hands of the same thugs who have foisted their giant ponzi scheme on the American taxpayer.  I said as much when Pr. Bush tried to do this.

    Also, I must respectfully disagree with your argument re drill, baby, drill.  When Palin was Governor of AK, she increased safety inspections and measures performed by the locals to ensure that another Exoon Valdez didnt happen.  This adminstration, nor the past one, did anything of the kind, but rather gave exemptions and more exemptions to them from having to put these safety measures in place.  The biggest problem to me is not necessarily drilling — but a lack of compliance with proper safety precautions.  Enforcement of the same is not the purview of the American people, but of Government and they dropped the ball — and have done so for years. 

    In light of that, it’s not the people “protesting against their own self interest” that is the problem here (although that sometimes happens, too), but the “plutocracy” and incestuous relationship between corporations and government that stop healthy enforcement of safety laws.

    Also, as to your mention of the protest of “Socialized medicine,” I personally do not protest the idea of health care reform, I think many others would agree with me.  What we protest is an awful bill that has not been adequately reviewed and once again puts money into the hands of the powerful while rationing and screwing the rest of us.

    People do not protest a general concept here — they protest a very badly executed idea that will hurt many more than it will help and will likely bankrupt us if left in its current form.

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