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The Oil Isn’t Just a Perception Problem *updated*

/ Bumped up /

On the surface it may look like BP and the Obama administration are having some bad oil days.  Rust-colored oil that fouled Louisiana’s ecologically sensitive marshes washed ashore on barrier islands off Alabama and Mississippi on Tuesday.  The oil slick now looms about 7 miles off the Florida coast and changing wind patterns are expected to drive it ever closer.  Weathered oil and tar balls could hit the western Panhandle “in a day or two,” said Florida Gov. Charlie Crist.

In response (via Time),

today NOAA announced that 37% of the federal waters of the Gulf were no-fishing zones. That’s nearly 89,000 sq. miles — almost twice the amount of territory restricted as of May 18 — where the sea life is considered potentially too toxic to eat.

Meanwhile yesterday, the Coast Guard’s Thad Allen announced that the saw blade cutting a riser pipe became stuck, temporarily halting the actually fix part of ‘cut and cap’.  Though not, unfortunately, halting the flow of oil which has actually increased due to the cutting procedure.

Unfortunately, as bad as these setbacks are, the reality could be much worse.

The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) just released animation of how and where this oil spill may travel based on ocean currents. H/t Mother Jones

We have officially started the 2010 Atlantic hurricane season.  It runs from June 1 to November 30 and affect the eastern and Gulf coasts of the U.S. and the Caribbean nations.  For the 2010 hurricane season, NOAA is projecting a 70 percent probability of the following ranges:

  • 14 to 23 Named Storms (top winds of 39 mph or higher), including:
  • 8 to 14 Hurricanes (top winds of 74 mph or higher), of which:
  • 3 to 7 could be Major Hurricanes (Category 3, 4 or 5; winds of at least 111 mph)

Which means the August deadline for stopping the spill touted by BP is more likely to be pushed back to the Christmas season (via Bloomberg):

…operations may need to be suspended to allow for an evacuation ahead of a tropical storm or hurricane, during which oil would continue to gush into the Gulf.

Or later, if their first two attempts (BP is drilling them concurrently) at drilling relief wells fail. Of course, then they still have to plug the well.

The so-called relief well being drilled to intercept and plug the damaged well by mid-August might miss — as other emergency wells have done before — requiring more time to make a second, third or fourth try, Dave Rensink, President Elect of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, said.

And while NOAA points the good news/bad news of hurricanes and oil slicks on their website with the likes of:

The high winds and seas will mix and “weather” the oil which can help accelerate the biodegradation process.

Storms’ surges may carry oil into the coastline and inland as far as the surge reaches. Debris resulting from the hurricane may be contaminated by oil from the Deepwater Horizon incident, but also from other oil releases that may occur during the storm.

NOAA doesn’t mention that a new report (via USA Today) says Underwater oil pipelines extremely vulnerable to hurricanes:

The findings, based on data obtained during Hurricane Ivan’s savage tear across the Gulf of Mexico in 2004, will appear in an upcoming edition of Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union.

The study found that the 31,000 miles of pipelines along the seafloor of the Gulf could crack or rupture unless they are buried or their supporting foundations are built to withstand hurricane-induced currents. “Major oil leaks from damaged pipelines could have irreversible impacts on the ocean environment,” the authors wrote.

Researchers got a unique look at what a hurricane can do underwater during Ivan, a Category-4 hurricane with wind speeds of more than 130 mph in the Gulf. Ivan passed over a network of sensors on the ocean floor.

“This is the first time that anyone measured hurricane-induced stresses on the Gulf bottom,” says study author Bill Teague of the Naval Research Laboratory in Mississippi.

The study’s calculations are the first to show that hurricanes propel underwater currents with enough force to dig up the seabed as far as almost 300 feet below the surface, potentially creating underwater mudslides and damaging pipes and other equipment that rest on the bottom.

The research suggests hurricanes considerably weaker than Ivan could tear up the seafloor.

Which really brings the unresolved questions surrounding the volume of spilling oil into sharp focus.  While the current government estimates 12,000 to 19,000 barrels leaking a day and BP has presented 60,000 barrels as a worst case number, one has to wonder if we are still getting the full picture when (via Bloomberg):

In its original exploration plan for the Macondo well about 40-miles from the Louisiana coast, BP estimated the worst-case scenario for an oil spill was 162,000 barrels of crude a day, according to a filing with the U.S. Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service.

And that leads us to the underwater oil plumes that much of the media isn’t talking about, the Obama administration calls “anomalies”, and BP claims it can’t find.   This spill is more than 40 days old and yet, it was only yesterday that NOAA sent the Thomas Jefferson to join the Gordon Gunter in investigating the effects of the spill on our undersea environment. (via Time)

Several independent academic research teams say they’ve found evidence that plumes of oil are forming and moving underwater — perhaps due to the effect of the nearly 1 million gallons of chemical dispersants the energy giant BP has used on the oil, both on the surface and at the wellhead 5,000 feet below.[snip]

University of Georgia scientists — out to sea on a research trip to the oil spill right now — took water samples at the middle depths where the plumes are thought to be and could actually smell and see the oil.[snip]

“The source of reliable information on this has not been the government,” says Ian MacDonald, an oceanographer at Florida State University who has been following the spill since the beginning. “It has been independent academics.”

And (via ABC News) Marine scientists have discovered 3 huge swaths of oil particles in the Gulf of Mexico waters.

…new video showing oil plumes 40 miles out in the ocean, just southwest of the Deepwater Horizon. So far, three large underwater islands of oil have been discovered, some 20 miles long by 6 miles wide.

___

Kind of makes you wonder what all that dispersant is doing to marine life and wild life.  And what it will eventually do to us.

  • Dave

    I am sure that once President Erkel has a chance to talk with his close personal advisor, Michelle, (rember the debate where he said he would ask for help from Michelle because she was so smart), all will be well.  Everything and everyone will be saved.  I hope the Kool-ade drinkers are happy, what else does this moron have to screw up before his supporters will admit their horrible mistake in supporting this moron>

  • sowsear

    Will someone please give me the link to the oil spill video again.
    Thanks

  • AnnieBinPA

    What a shame that the Dems prefered an empty suit with no leadership skills or experience to lead us to this place.  I hope the $$ boys like Soros feel they’ve leveled our great republic enough for now.  Strange way to heal the planet by killing the sea?  Waiting for 2010 &2012..if we’re still here.

  • Peggy Sue

    Well, gee, someone needs to show this clip to Thad Allen who said this morning that the so-called oil plumes were based on anecdotal evidence.  I also picked up a ticker line on that press conference [think it was CNN] reporting that 1 million gallons of disperant have been poured into the Gulf thus far.

    Toxic soup, anyone?  But if we’re to believe Tony Hayward the Gulf is so, so big.  What’s the worry???  Ask the birds and fishies.

    I also caught an interview with the mayor of Pensicola and Ben Nelson last night.  The sense is that the Government is going to allow the oil to reach the beaches, the wetlands and estuaries and worry about the cleanup later.

    And James Cameron, who assembled the assistance of 23 engineers to brainstorm the problem with EPA, was dismissed by the BP execs.  His reaction was far from polite. 

    This whole thing is going from bad to worse to worst in an eyeblink.  But the President seems to be slowly realizing the significance of the disaster.  He has another scheduled visit to the Gulf tomorrow [I think].  They’re getting clobbered on this and rightly so. No one expects the man to don a wetsuit and plug the hole himself.  But people do expect a sense of urgency, care and concern coming from DC. So far, just the opposite has been telegraphed. And no, Joan Walsh, we don’t need a Daddy.  What we need is competent leadership. 

    People are plenty steamed.  Think James Carville.  More fisherman are getting sick working on the cleanup crews and many of them are not getting paid. 

    This is a massive clusterf**k. 

  • sowsear

    The Bilderbergers meet again…more damage coming, no doubt
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7142478.ece

  • Onofre’s arm
  • csuzeq

    Can’t Obama just sprinkle his magic fairy dust and make it all better (of course having ridden in on his hopey-changey unicorn)?  Isn’t that what he was elected for?

    It’s tough when the reality hits the fan!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Well he’s just a party animal nothing less than his cheeto eating, kool-aid swigging followers!

  • surfered

    The dispersant currently being used is marketed under the trade name, Corexit.  One of its ingredients is 2-butoxeythanol.  According to the Center For Disease control, repeated or excessive exposure to this chemical may cause central nervous system depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthetic or narcotic effects, injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidneys or the liver.  The question is will be able to eat seafood which has ingested this chemical.

  • oowawa

    BP is now posting multiplle links where you can access the live feed from many different robots.  It’s hit and miss, but here are the links:

    http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9033572&contentId=7062605

  • oowawa

    Run dolphins, run fast!  Get away! Run Run!  Sorry manatees–I know you can’t run fast . . .

  • Onofre’s arm

    Looks like Mexican Hat #4 (Sombrero Cuatro) is speeding toward it’s destiny! Ironically, I hope Cuatro really sucks.

  • Juliezzz

    Follow the money on the dispersment Corexit…. http://bayouchild.wordpress.com/2010/05/30/bombshell-expose-the-real-reason-the-oil-still-flows-into-the-gulf-of-mexico/

    Check out all these familiar names making money on this poison

  • oowawa

    One of the feeds is now showing a device hanging in the water with a big “4″ on it; I believe that is the top-hat with which they are going to try and cap the leak.  They will lower it down:

    http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/html/Enterprise_ROV_1.html

  • Juliezzz

    well there still is that nagging conspiracy theory floating around out there that the oil spill is really massive amounts of Obama Koolaid being pumped out into the ocean to be picked up by storms and distributed everywhere.  Soon everyone but us few who are immune will be under his spell.

    so I guess in away, obama just may be sprinkling his magic fairy dust here and there.  But, I highly doubt it will make it all better.  :-P

  • Peggy Sue

    That may very well explain the sickness among the cleanup crews because what you’ve listed [although additionally, a lot of respiratory diffculty] are the symptoms being reported.  If I remember correctly, fishermen had similar complaints during the Valdez cleanup.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Good Post Linda. Thank you. What more can these people down by the gulf do how much is there left they can loose?? It is just one thing after another!
    So many have offered help and yet again it always falls on deaf ears! My heart goes out to them all!
    Everyone suffers whilst “O” twiddles his thumbs. 40 plus days and still no clean up???? HELLO!

  • oowawa

    One of the researchers interviewed in the video provided above by Linda Anselmi is Samantha Joye of UGA.  Her blog about her research investigating the undersea oil plumes is here:

    http://gulfblog.uga.edu/

  • sowsear
  • helenk

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/101161-bp-paid-for-agency-officials-trips-meals

    These government workers get a damn good salary paid for by our tax money and they still will sell themselves for a meal or a plane ticket.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  • sowsear

    BP got right on it
    http://www.johnwsmart.com/

  • Ferd Berfle

    Follow up email:
    By the way, I had some minor surgery and it went really well.
    The doctors managed to pull Ramallah my gerbil out of my colon without causing any harm to little Ram. I loved how his whiskers tickled me down there, but then he started chewing on my intestines like some demented Jew chewing on Palestinian land, and so we had to pull him out.
    I love how his fur smells now.
    Cheers!

  • Ferd Berfle

    Can an administrator please delete the comments from the obamabot/troll who is using my moniker? This is just so juvenile.

  • sowsear

    The above has been posted by a troll on each essay/ Flag it. (Not Ferd)

  • TeakWoodKite

    Must be the glasses/

  • sowsear

    Carville happened upon Hayward and Thad Allen having dinner together last night, gave them an earful again.

  • sowsear

    Here is the oil spill video from PBS. Looks like more oil pouring out now (they said to expect maybe 20% more)
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/

  • sowsear

    Wonder why they can’t just pipe it up to the surface onto a tanker. It looks like it’s spewing straight up…

  • sowsear

    Looks like the well is still spewing it’s contents, and it also looks like they are spraying a stream of dispersants directly into the the upflow at the well head.

  • candymarl

    But they don’t exist! You’re a nutty conspriacy theorist!

    At least that what was said for years about those reporting on this group.

  • sowsear
  • HARP

    Working on the oil spill day and night.

    Obama and the Bots.

  • Linda Anselmi

    Those pictures are beyond heartbreaking.  

  • opit

    Saw one lovely idea  which suggested that the dispersant – since it would be in small particles – could be picked up in a hurricane and dispersed in rain…onto land. All of this so misses the point. It wasn’t BP which changed regulations so that taxes were reduced on deepwater drilling. You don’t need a crystal ball to see where that has and will take us. And there’s a much bigger well out there with safety violations from hell.

  • carol haka

    Don’t denigrate the cartoon characters.

    They are actually much smarter than the creatures in Washington.

    >:o

  • jbjd

    Juliezzz, the article you linked is fabulous.  BP could not have used this toxic material without permission from the EPA, our EPA, whose mission is, by laws we enacted through our federal officials, to protect our environment. 

  • Onofre’s arm

    It’s complicated sows. Because of the huge volume of dissolved gas in the petroleum, as it rises to the surface, the pressure holding it in solution decreases so that the gases rapidly come out of solution and rise more rapidly up the tube. If the petroleum were just liquid, they could pump it right up, but when all of the gas bubbles out of the petroleum, the pump will get nothing but gases, and the prime will be broken. Have you ever had to prime a pump? No matter how powerful the surface pumps are, they end up vacuuming gases coming out of solution more than the heavier liquid component of petroleum. And unfortunately, it’s the heavier liquid component of the petroleum that will cause all of the damage while the gases simply escape into the atmosphere. That’s why getting a good seal between the riser and the vacuum line was crucial, because then the petroleum would rise up the tube under it’s own pressure. Unless or until a good seal is achieved, the heavier components of the petroleum will simply squirt out around the gaps between the cap and the poorly cut riser pipe.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Really?

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    “where the currents may bring the oil”

    There is no may about it. The oil is already in the gulf loop and headed for the Florida Straights. It will soon be coming to a theater near you.

    There was little doubt about this after day one, and no doubt about it after the first week.

    The only question is what the amout will be. And every minute, hour, day, that amount increases.

    Obama canceled his trip to Australia to make another trip to LA beaches. I hope he brought more than his tiny pink pail and shovel because Bobby Jindal still needs those Barrier Islands.

  • oowawa

    Michelle, oil spill,
    These are words that mix together well–
    My oil spill,
    My Michelle . . .

    Dead birds oh dead birds oh dead birds!
    As far as eye can see
    But as long as we can par-ty,
    We can feel no oil spill
    My Michelle . . .

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    when all of the gas bubbles out …… the pump will get nothing but gases

    Oh yeah, that happens to me all the time…

  • ~~JustMe~~
  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    At this point they should seriously stop the use of dispersants.

    The general rule of thumb is that the solution to pollution is dilution. But when the pollution is this massive there is no hope of diluting it for massive areas of the gulf.

    Adding dispersant of any level of toxicty is going to compund the problem in the massive areas of the Gulf and the Gulf Current where this ould is going to end up.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    At this point they should seriously stop the use of dispersants. 
     
    The general rule of thumb is that the solution to pollution is dilution. But when the pollution is this massive there is no hope of diluting it for the massive areas of the gulf that are being effected. 
     
    Adding dispersant of any level of toxicty is compounding the oil toxicity problem in the massive areas of the Gulf and the Gulf Current where this oil is going to end up.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Essentially sows, at 5000 feet down, the pressure at the seabed is over 5000 psi, which keeps the gases like methane and propane in their liquid phase. But as the petroleum rises to the surface, the corresponding reduction of pressure will essentially allow the liquid gases to change into their gaseous phase, they reach their boiling point. As gas bubbles form and continue rising, they will grow larger in size as the surrounding pressure decreases. If all of this is taking place in a tube, then most of what you’d get at the surface is gas, while the heavier liquids stubbornly stay lower down the pipe.

    However, if an inline pump was very close to the cap, like a sump pump, then a good amount of petroleum could be pumped up to the surface, while a surface mounted vacuum pump would be mostly sucking gas.

  • candymarl

    There seems to be a lot of first times for many things involving this situation.

    Can you say scientific research? I knew you could.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Since you have beans in your name, I’m sure you’re an expert of natural gases.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Thad Allen – pardon me Admiral, all due respect, but you were hand pick precisely for the position of your head up your ASS.

    Thad Allen – Why are you authorizing BP to contract out the few Barrier Berm/Islands requested by Governor Bobby Jindal?

    If there is any contracting to be required that work is all supposed to be contrated and managed by Federal Agencies. It is the LAW.

    BP, the responsible party, is only permitted to perform work within their capability. Any subcontracted work is by definition beyond the capability of BP.

    BP is still managing the response to this disaster response, doing it POORLY, and the Admiral is saluting them for it.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Essentially sows, at 5000 feet down, the pressure at the seabed is over 2000 psi, which keeps the gases like methane and propane in their liquid phase. But as the petroleum rises to the surface, the corresponding reduction of pressure will essentially allow the liquid gases to change into their gaseous phase, they reach their boiling point. As gas bubbles form and continue rising, they will grow larger in size as the surrounding pressure decreases. If all of this is taking place in a tube, then most of what you’d get at the surface is gas, while the heavier liquids stubbornly stay lower down the pipe.  
     
    However, if an inline pump was very close to the cap, like a sump pump, then a good amount of petroleum could be pumped up to the surface, while a surface mounted vacuum pump would be mostly sucking gas.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    And, BP is not building all of the Islands requested by Jindal. BP is building 5, the Governor requested a minimum of 24.

    Stop inhaling the fumes Admiral.

    The Admiral has nothing to lose, he already is retired. They can’t even fire him. He just goes back to retirement when he has had enough of the Gulf and when Obama finds another lackey.

  • Samb

    In the case of the BP oil spill it seems that the Obama
    administration is at a loss, because this is a crisis he can’t
    control, up till now he has managed everything in campaign mode.  
    He has never considered the possibly that there could be a
    HAPPENING IN WHICH THERE WAS NO CLEAR WAY OUT
    and when he becomes challenged, about his lack of sensitivity  
    he goes into POSER MODE. 

    He is predictable.
    :-P

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    I wrote in a comment further down that they need to stop using dispersant. The spill is too large for that to be effective. It is making a massive toxic problem more toxic.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    The clean up crews would experience a health problem even without the dispersan added. All cleanup personnel should be wearing VOC Respirators as well as apporpriate clothing/gloves/goggles for skin protection.

    The southern heat makes that difficult, but there will be short and long term health problems for every worker that does not do this.

    The dispersant makes that health problem worse for the workers and every living organism it contacts.

    The volume of the spill is too great to thing that the Gulf and eventually Atlantic can dilute the dispersant to safe levels.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Other famous Beatles tunes relevant to current events:

    “Hey Crude”
    “Yellow ROV”
    “Octopus’s Nightmare”
    “Blackbird”
    “Help!”
    “Oileo  RIGby”

  • sowsear

    The knew the seal wasn’t going to be good when they used shears to cut the pipe. The top was jagged. Couldn’t or shouldn’t they have taken the time to saw the top off evenly? Do they have a useble diamond saw?
    Also, do we see in the video that they are spraying dispersant directly into the upward stream? If that’s true, isn’t that counter-productive to capturing the heavier stuff anywhere between the pipe and the surface.
    Have they tried or has it been suggested that they vacuum it up from the surface or from the plumes?

  • Ferd Berfle

    How about 1 after 409?

    Of course there’s the Pink Floyd favorite. Dark Side of the Spill.

  • sowsear

    Another dumb question: at seabed pressure, how do any of those pipes and machinery stay functional?

  • Ferd Berfle

    Get Black
    I Spill

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    By the way, the “Responsible Party” is liable for the entire economic impact of the spill.

    We know that already includes lost tourism business and lost fishing business, and BP has agreed to compensate 100% for those losses. (Trust me they will fight it all in court).

    BUT, BP is also lible for every rig worker that is unemployed due to the spill. That means every worker who is out of work due to the shut down of drilling is eligible to collect FULL PAY from BP.

    The Federal Government needs to start this RIGHT the YOU KNOW WHAT now.

    The Stupid LAZY SHIT HUA Incident Commander is Authorized BY LAW to make this happen. Thad Allen needs someone to light the oil under his ass

  • Ferd Berfle

    BP Rigs-Bye

  • Samb

    TAX MAN- yea.yea

  • Ferd Berfle

    2-butoxeythanol
    ==========
    That is some really nasty crap, I’m telling you. An alcohol-ether compound is just not a good thing to be spraying anywhere.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    I resemble that remark Ono.

  • oowawa

    Hey Onofre’s arm, Ferd, Samb–too funny!  I can’t take one more step down this road or I won’t get any sleep tonight . . .

  • Onofre’s arm

    They work for the same reason that fish work at those depths, and even much deeper. The machinery is made of incompressible materials. And if humans could breath liquids (Like they did in the movie “The Abyss”) then they could also function at great depths.

  • Onofre’s arm

    hey work for the same reason that fish work at those depths, and even much deeper. The machinery is made of incompressible materials. And if humans could breath liquids (Like they did in the movie “The Abyss”) then they could also function at great depths.

  • Onofre’s arm

    hey work for the same reason that fish work at those depths, and even much deeper. The machinery is made of incompressible materials. And if humans could breath liquids (Like they did in the movie “The Abyss” ) then they could also function at great depths.

  • Onofre’s arm

    They work for the same reason that fish work at those depths, and even much deeper. The machinery is made of incompressible materials. And if humans could breath liquids (Like they did in the movie “The Abyss” ) then they could also function at great depths.

  • oowawa

    There’s just something about motivated young women protesting by dumping oil over their heads that makes me want to get out and man the barricades!

    http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top_stories/119485/activists-condemn-oil-spill-at-manhattan-bp-station

  • Ferd Berfle

    Oh, yes you can, oowawa:

    Me-Chelle and That One are going to be soon saying Goodbye to Goldbrick Road.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Oh, yes you can, oowawa: 
     
    Me-Chelle and That One are going to be soon singing to Elton John’s parody Goodbye to Goldbrick Road.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Or Tull’s Iron Lung for all the exposed workers cleaning up this carcinogenic shit.

  • Samb
  • Ferd Berfle

    Or Tull’s Iron Lung for all the exposed workers cleaning up this carcinogenic shit.

  • Samb

    You  all have inspired me and I found this one

    HELP-

  • Ferd Berfle

    Of course, oowawa, there’s Instant Carnage by the Plastic Onon Band.

  • Ferd Berfle

     course, oowawa, there’s Instant Carnage by the Plastic Ono Band.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Such an effective contribution toward a solution has rarely been observed. 

    I sure hope they send BP their dry cleaning bills. That’ll show ‘em.

    I can’t help but wonder how many luxuries these characters enjoy that they wouldn’t have without the petroleum industry.

  • oowawa

    Kind of a mixture between “Locomotive Breath” and “Aqualung”:

    “And you snatch your rattling last breaths
    with deep-sea-diver sounds”–

    Will apply to both animals and humans . . .

  • ~~JustMe~~

    OMG, soul destroying! :’(

  • Ferd Berfle

    Perfect, oowawa.

  • oowawa

    God, now I’m already trying to re-write:

    Michelle, oil smell,
    These aromas go together well . . .

    Damn you, McCartney!

  • Ferd Berfle

    This compound is worse than methyl-tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE).

  • Samb

    I hear you, and agree-OMG

  • helenk

    If only he had sang that  at the White House instead of Michelle maybe someone would have understood how bad it is down there.

    Hey Paul
    Maybe bush did not know where the library was but it did not take him over 40 days and several vacations to find the Gulf.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  • Samb

    “I can’t help but wonder how many luxuries these characters
    enjoy that they wouldn’t have without the petroleum industry.”
    ————————————————-
    ————————————————-
    The list could be long. well put.

  • Onofre’s arm

    My question to you Ferd: How long does it take for this stuff to break down under natural conditions into much less harmful components? The manufacturers claim that it naturally degrades rather quickly. What’s the truth?

  • Ferd Berfle

    The general rule of thumb is that the solution to pollution is dilution.
    ==============
    That works only when the pollution is soluble in the associated media to some appreciable degree. Oli is not soluble in water to an extent that dilution has any real effect. The upshot is that there is some dispersion of the somewhat soluble compounds within the crude but the rest stays together as we are seeing with the tar balls.

  • Katmoon

    Mayebe we should all send a package of these to the hacks in DC. “Also good for wiping that okey Doke Deal slime off of your hands. Disclaimer: Does not work on souls. An Attorney was hired to make these deals come true, Tax and and lying to the publics as applies; Good for all 57 states.

  • Diana L. C.

    I’m having a terrible time even thinking about the oil spill.   The birds, fish, turtles, etc. have no voice, but I can feel them all crying.  It’s just more than I can take.

  • Ferd Berfle

    OA: 2-butoxyethanol is a known animal carcinogen with so far unknown affects in humans (but who wants to find out). Think of the active component of booze with an ether group conveniently attached. I would surmise that its half-life is not long because it is probably quite reactive. I wouldn’t touch the stuff myself.

  • Samb

    Bush also gave up golf, realized it wrong for a wartime president
    to be playing. But O has no problem partying on the taxpayer’s dollar
    especially when the taxpayer is hurting so much.

  • Samb

    Bush also gave up golf, realized it wrong for a wartime president 
    to be playing. But O has no problem partying on the taxpayer’s
    dollar especially when the taxpayer is hurting so much.

  • Katmoon

    The sad truth is, these species, will probably not return, as in be able to breed or create any type of normal habitat within God knows how many miles of this spill; further is the toxic capacity carried beyond the spill by hosts? it will also have a huge impact on food supply for the United States, as in shortages of the obvious, then the next monster will be the over fishing and harvesting of the Western and Northwestern coastal areas. I am not trying to make it worse, as I agree Diana L. C., this is truly sickening. It is as always a society as a whole(not the truly caring people) who treat every from votes, human life, animal life, and life sustaining oceans as disposable, as long as they have their bank account fix, there is not a thought to what next.

  • Ferd Berfle

    It is also almost completely soluble in water due to its small size and hydroxyl group (hydrogen bonding). It is a good dispersant because it also solubilizes both the oil constituents and the salt water, which makes it doubly dangerous to organic moieties.

  • jbjd

    And the ‘solution’ shifts with the time, as well as the area pinpointed for relief (point of origin versus surface, for example).

  • jbjd

    DLC, I was thinking, the government should immediately begin ‘billing’ BP for this mess they created by compelling all salaried employees to staff wildlife clean-up stations along the coast.

  • candymarl

    Shouldn’t our government assembled these experts?  Just asking.

  • Samb
  • Samb

    WTF-Helen Thomas- in her own words. 

  • Ferd Berfle

    Spot on, jbjd. Once the soluble/insoluble material coalesce around their preferred solute, the resulting mixtures will disperse according to their density, the prevailing wind and/or the current, i.e., not in a truly predictable fashion.

  • carol haka

    Haven’t you heard?

    Obama already has it worked out.  He is just not telling us how because he is just too cool for school.

    I hope he goes to play golf this weekend.

    >:o

  • ~~JustMe~~

    I hope he goes to play golf this weekend. 

    I don’t I will be pis*ed all weekend!

  • Samb

    She is so over,  she’s lost it completely

  • Ferd Berfle

    I concur, NLBIB. This dispersant is too toxic for such broad use.

  • carol haka

    They should dropping Ivory Liquid into the gulf.

    :-D

  • Ferd Berfle

    Good idea, Carol. Ivory or Dawn detergem=nt are are also fairly good, non-toxic dispersants.

  • carol haka

    Ya.  These idiots with Obama as their leader are tanking BP.  That’s exactly what we need – drive BP into extinction.  Then who is going to pay for this?

    Another of Obama’s sinister plots to destroy the country.

    >:o

  • Samb

    Dawn dish soap.
    ;)

  • Samb

    I wish it were that simple.

  • HARP

    I thought she was dead. Then I watched the video and confirmed I was right.

  • sowsear

    They won’t tell you….blackout mode in DC.

  • candymarl

    When I find myself in times of trouble Father BP comes to me.
    Whispered words of wisdom – Let it Spill.
    Let it Spill, Let it Spill, Let it Spill, Let it Spill.

    We don’t have the answer so Let it Spill.

  • HARP

    Hey Helen….maybe you should go back to Lebanon and take smiley with you.

  • carol haka

    I like the Blanche ad with the dollars flowing out of the capital like oil.

    :-D

  • carol haka

    I live Ivory better. It reminds me of the baby commercials.

    ;)

  • carol haka

    And when the bubbles hit the shore, it would be fun.

    :-D

  • sowsear

    Don’t we just love it when foreigners come to visit and tell us stuff? Calderon and McCartney are just so smart…

  • carol haka

    Trust me they aren’t crying.

    They are dead or eating something that ate something ………….

    :’(

    Sorry, but it is true.

  • carol haka

    I demand her immediate firing. 

    She should be banned from the WH.

    >:o

  • ~~JustMe~~

    UGH did you have to?

  • Juliezzz

    Isn’t this akin to saying “go back to Africa”?

  • Touchet

    When Obama’s skin changes to white, then they will stop supporting him.

    Anyone who still supports Obama by now, is doing so out of something OTHER than logic.  And while it may not be PC to say it, We all know what that OTHER reason is.

  • Docelder

    Obama already has it worked out. – Like the economy I guess. We were waiting around for the Great One to “save us”… then we were shocked to find that he thinks he already did. He saved us from the second great depression according to him… like one of those jobs “saved” but not “created” I guess. It’s always raining lollipops and gumdrops on the Big Rock Candy Mountain… where I guess members of the press also reside. Maybe they are all on drugs together. Because, I don’t get it.

  • Touchet

    They aren’t trying to cap anything, they are trying to find a way to save it.  In otherwords, they are destroying the environment to save their money maker.

  • sowsear

    Oh and who’s that nice guy in Cuba who thinks we ought to nuke Iran so BO can be re-elected in 2012

  • ~~JustMe~~

    and if he does I hope his sticks break and he has BAD weather!

  • Samb

    akin, Helen and O are akin, who would have thunk it.?
    :-D

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Actually that’s a good take of what he will look like when he’s older! =-O

  • carol haka

    It was awful.

    The Mayor of Gran Isle was telling Obama he notified the ulitiy companies not to disconnect people’s utilities.

    It is heart-breaking.

    :’(

  • Samb

    prefect LOL.

  • Docelder

    OK, so BP is supposedly “responsible” for the clean up. But, as this oil and the dispersant approved for use by our homegrown EPA heads across the Atlantic… where does any liability lie for the US if this concoction winds up all over beaches in Britain, Ireland, Spain, France etc? Maybe Obama is crazy like a fox. Maybe the liabilities from this will do what “change” couldn’t.

  • getfitnow

    What they knew and when they knew it. I’m not surprised >:o

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37346

  • wodiej

    Laura Ingram said it well today:

    this is not a political issue.  This is a crisis.  Get the best people on this.  It’s completely OUT OF CONTROL! IT’S TRAGIC! IT’S UNACCEPTABLE!

  • getfitnow

    *Breaking– h/t–hotair:
    ****************************************************
    Helen Thomas issued the following statement today: “I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians. They do not reflect my heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon.”
    ************************************
    She boosts the argument for mandatory retirement. :-D

  • wodiej

    Diana, I feel the same way.  My heart is breaking.  Animals depend on us, the environment for so much.  I am an avid animal lover and I just can’t listen when they talk about the wildlife and vegetation.  It’s just SICKENING. 

  • Samb

    The booze and makeup, defense
    :-P

  • sowsear

    99,9% pure, like our baby daddy.

  • sowsear

    Kat, Use these with Obama dehydrated water

  • ~~JustMe~~

    You know that lipstick could do great damage if you didn’t know it!

  • Samb
  • sowsear
  • sowsear

    Yes, my husband said today..when they wipe oil off of those birds, where do they put them…right back into the water?

  • sowsear

    She used to ask the right questions…even last week she askled about Afghanistan instead of something BO was expecting (forgot what now).

  • oowawa

    Good one, candymarl!

  • sowsear

    I wonder if they have quietly accepted Cosner’s machines. We’ve heard from Cameron that the dolts in DC wouldn’t listen to him, but nothing recently from Cosner. I would think they would try anything now.

  • oowawa

    Ivory soap–reminds me of Marilyn Chambers . . .

  • oowawa

    sowsear–they’ve been taking some of them to an area around Tampa Bay . . .

  • candymarl

    But, but Obama went down there again and will talk (finally) to those who lost loved ones because of this.

    I would swoon but Obama has to have a bottle of water in his hand first.

  • AC

    sowsear, you trying to prove your theory with the Cosner spelling?

  • candymarl

    Why thank you. :-[

  • sowsear

    Somewhere someone big and powerful has shorted BP:

  • FLDemFem

    What about the Canadian fishing waters? They will get oiled way before England and Ireland. And isn’t BP British Petroleum?? So let the British get the money out of them, since the EPA told them to stop using that dispersant, and they refused, it’s on BP’s head, not ours. I want to see what happens when the Canadians see that mess heading for their fishing waters. They have a major industry in fishing, just like we do. But hey, if Obama wants seafood, he can have it flown in from Hawaii. I can’t believe that I live 40 miles from the Gulf Coast and won’t be able to get local seafood for years to come.

    I am just staggered by that, and the absolute disregard for the wildlife and sea life shown by not only BP and the US government. I am doing chemo now, so I can’t go do anything. But I am sending a case of Dawn to the Gulf Breeze zoo, which will get it to the right people. It’s a small zoo in Gulf Breeze, FL that does rescues of injured wildlife and maintains a small zoo of some that can’t go back to the wild, and a few other animals too. I visited them in the late 80′s and am going to see if they are still there or if one of the big hurricanes took them out. I hope they are still there, they do good work. There must be other places like that we can send stuff, like Dawn, to. Oh, and Dawn donates a dollar for every bottle sold to wildlife causes, WWF, etc. Check out the bottle in the store, and the website.

  • carol haka

    No.  They are keeping them contained somewhere. 

    :’(

  • carol haka

    Not good enough.

    Fire her!

    >:o

  • carol haka

    Yeah.  Today he invited the family members of the 11 dead to the WH next week.

    Do you think he will send the jet for them?

    Sickening.

    :’(

  • sowsear

    Thanks, glad to hear that they have a place that’s oil free so far…

  • sowsear

    I thought they said that the oil would go up the east coast to SC and then head out to sea. They didn’t mention its getting to Canandian waters…hopefully.

  • sowsear

    Sorry you are in chemo now…hope you get well soon.

  • sowsear

    Costner???Cosner, close enough..

  • Onofre’s arm

    “Think of the active component of booze………..”

    I’ll do better than that, I’ll EXPERIENCE IT!

  • Docelder

    Maybe he can fly in a pizza maker… maybe some beer and then maybe Michelle can pick some vegetables from the garden for these folks. They can have sweet potato pie for dessert.

  • getfitnow
  • sowsear

    I’m a birther too

  • beyond_words

    The Gulf Stream departs the coast of North America at Cape Hatteras, on its way to warm the shores of northern Europe. That’s why northern Europe is milder than the majority of north-eastern North America during our winters.

  • Docelder

    Well, to hear him tell it… he’s furious. I wonder if somebody knew the leak was going to happen… that would be the big story. This crisis will be used to sell cap and trade. Maybe it will be used to bleed the bourgeois some more. Gotta stop that middle-classness at all costs. If the bourgeois didn’t have homes and jobs and kids and didn’t all want suv’s then BP wouldn’t be so evil and maybe some of the fish would have been spared… right. But, when you look at some of the nuts this Preciousdent surrounds himself with, then you wonder. Anything is possible now. Anything.

  • econsmed
  • ~~JustMe~~

    Hey sows, you been in my garden?

  • ~~JustMe~~

    BP shares top risers as engineers assess latest oil spill operation.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/04/bp-shares-rise-oil-spill-cap

  • ~~JustMe~~
  • ~~JustMe~~

    BP shares top risers as engineers assess latest oil spill operation

    • Cap placed on Deepwater Horizon wellhead
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jun/04/bp-shares-rise-oil-spill-cap

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Deepwater Horizon wildlife rescues go into overdrive as slick hits coast

    Wildlife workers step up efforts after sudden surge in number of birds and turtles coated with oil along Louisiana coastline
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/04/deepwater-horizon-spill-bird-impact

  • Rosa

    speaking of oil   i thought this was  good   
    Hillary Clinton proves her point on Obama and his oil connection

  • helenk

    What would it take to start a program like the civilian conservation corps to take unemployed workers in the states affected by the oil spill to do some cleanup work?.  They could get housing and salary. It was done during the depression and helped a lot of families.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  • Senneth

    Katmoon,
    I’ve been thinking of the consequences as well.  I was at Karl Denninger’s blog reading the comments last night and read up on the salmon farming and how horrific that was.  We’ve already over-fished on the Atlantic Coast.  There are few wild salmon left.

    I read at the Confluence how some birds are going to be extinct because of this spill. 

    And still president do nothing does nothing.  No coordinated clean up crews, no barrier islands, no tangers sucking up the oil, no accepting help from other countries, no hay, no kevin costner machine, only his athletic team meets and singing with McCartney.  This is what the bots gave us – and we could have had someone who actually knew what they were doing.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Seriously Dawn is an excellent dispersant for oil. The problem is that the oil is still there, just spread out. It makes it easier for more organisms to ingest. It looks better, but in a massive spill I think it makes it worse.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    I’ve seen Dawn used for small spills, like at marina fueling stations. It does not make suds. I can’t explain the mechanics but I belive the non sudsing is due to all of the disolved salts in the water. It does disperse the oil very quickly.

    Those small spills, less than a quart, are supposed to be reported, but never are.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    People I work with and myself said HO-LY FUCK when we saw the rig sink. we knew exactly what it meant. Crossed our finges hoping BP had a solution – didn’t work.

    The Fed agencis needed a massive responce from hour one. Only the CG responded, and as I’ve said before they did not do much.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    it will end up in the Grand Banks

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    this is not a political issue.  This is a crisis.

    That is what makes it a Political Issue. That and the fact that Federal Law has the procedures in place to mobilize a massive response. But it’s not happening. It’s all BP with the federal agencies along for the ride.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Vince Cable has hit out at the ‘extreme and unhelpful’ anti-British rhetoric from the U.S. over BP’s handling of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
    The Business Secretary stopped short of criticising President Barack Obama personally, and declared that Britain should not use ‘ gunboat diplomacy’.
    Some MPs, however, have said Mr Obama was wrong to blame Britain for the problem.
    The comments, which came yesterday as BP announced that a plan to funnel the oil away had partially worked, risked provoking a trans-Atlantic rift.
    American politicians and broadcasters have laid the blame for the accident on the Deepwater Horizon rig at the feet of the UK – despite BP being a multinational company.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284125/Stop-blaming-UK-BP-oil-spill-disaster-Cable-hits-America.html#ixzz0pyBbHRvE
    Vince Cable has hit out at the ‘extreme and unhelpful’ anti-British rhetoric from the U.S. over BP’s handling of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
    The Business Secretary stopped short of criticising President Barack Obama personally, and declared that Britain should not use ‘ gunboat diplomacy’.
    Some MPs, however, have said Mr Obama was wrong to blame Britain for the problem.
    The comments, which came yesterday as BP announced that a plan to funnel the oil away had partially worked, risked provoking a trans-Atlantic rift.
    American politicians and broadcasters have laid the blame for the accident on the Deepwater Horizon rig at the feet of the UK – despite BP being a multinational company.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284125/Stop-blaming-UK-BP-oil-spill-disaster-Cable-hits-America.html#ixzz0pyBbHRvE

  • ~~JustMe~~

    FLDemfem

    BP is not British is was bought out years ago!

    Vince Cable has hit out at the ‘extreme and unhelpful’ anti-British rhetoric from the U.S. over BP’s handling of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
    The Business Secretary stopped short of criticising President Barack Obama personally, and declared that Britain should not use ‘ gunboat diplomacy’.
    Some MPs, however, have said Mr Obama was wrong to blame Britain for the problem.
    The comments, which came yesterday as BP announced that a plan to funnel the oil away had partially worked, risked provoking a trans-Atlantic rift.
    American politicians and broadcasters have laid the blame for the accident on the Deepwater Horizon rig at the feet of the UK – despite BP being a multinational company.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284125/Stop-blaming-UK-BP-oil-spill-disaster-Cable-hits-America.html
     

  • kenoshamarge

    They can start by not using all that lovely shiny lip gloss to which many/most women are addicted and which is usually made with petroleum jelly. (Which by the way should never be used on the mouth because it is swallowed and then clogs up the innerds.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_jelly

  • kenoshamarge

    I don’t know what it says about Oblahblah that he is always re-acting instead of acting to each problem/crisis.

    He sits on his ass until there is enough of a fuss made and then he charges in. Not my idea of leadership. A leader acts.

    It also seems to me that our elected officials wouldn’t even make good Boy Scouts because they are never prepared.

    EPA seems more concerned, most of the time, with protecting the business that pollute the environment than with the environment itself. Had they done their job for the past decades the businesses would have been forced to “clean up” their acts and much of the problems, aside from massive oil leaks caused by exploding oil rigs, would now be a thing of the past. Or at the very least be better than they are.

    Much of the problem we have is not only a “big” government that doesn’t do the things it should do and sticks it’s nose into things it shouldn’t but we have a government whose parts are all politicized.

    Should we have a “conservative’ Justice Department or a “liberal’ Justice Department? Shouldn’t we perhaps just have an efficient and able Justice Department more interested in enforcing the law? Does anyone believe that Holder is capable of heading Justice Department that does that anymore than Alberto Gonzales was?

    No damn more liberal or conservative EPA. No more damn rules and regulations that are ignored because they aren’t “convenient” or “politically correct” at some point in time.

    We could/can do so much better than what we are doing. We just need enough people who are involved and informed. INFORMED not indoctrinated or partisan. First thing to go when the House, also Senate and White House, are dirty is to clean house. A little vinegar and baking soda cleans very well. Apply to pols as needed and often. Also wash toxic kool aid off the exterior of Obamacrats and Obots while flushing inside with water. JMO

    Sorry, climbing down now.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Damn–now I can’t spell.

  • FLDemFem

    Thanks, am handling it ok. I just hope it doesn’t get too much worse. So far, no nausea, just tired and very sleepy on day four through seven after getting the chemo. Also, I noticed that the steroids I take before and right after the chemo are affecting my ability to type, etc. So please pardon any drivel that may appear in my posts..LOL.

  • Breeze

    -

    Obama: Government
    fully mobilized on oil spill

    Reuters, by Staff   

    Original Article

    6/5/2010

    U.S. President Barack Obama on Saturday vigorously defended his administration against criticism it has been too slow to act on the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, insisting it had “mobilized on every front.” In his weekly radio and Internet address to Americans, Obama said his administration had set in motion the largest response to an environmental disaster in U.S. history. (Snip) But opinion polls have consistently shown that a majority of Americans are unhappy with Obama’s handling of the 47-day crisis, which has caused environmental devastation and threatens a multi-billion fishing industry and tourism.

  • AC

    Ruthie is great!

  • tzada

    This too kinda makes me wonder……..

    http://www.blogster.com/joannemor/bombshell-expose-the-real-reason-the-oil-still-flows-into-the-gulf-of-mexico

    Audio: Goldman Sachs Dumps 44% of it’s BP Stock Weeks before Oil Rig Disaster! (all time record on a dump)   http://countusout.wordpress.com/?s=goldman+sachs
    and the CEO of BP just weeks ago dumped 1/3 of his BP shares.Cannot find my source for that, but I just read it today. 
    Then Hot Air had this countdown

    Just to remind people of the unofficial count:
    Two days of media events (White House Correspondents Dinner and a tête a tête with Bono)Three days of fundraisingFour commemorations (graduations, Cinco de Mayo, etc)Six days of vacationSix days of campaigningSix sports eventsSeven days of golf

    In comparison, how many days did Obama spend at the Gulf?  Three, during this span of time, and he’s back again today.

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