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Our Neighbors To The North Are Cutting Back

Recently, we have been focusing on our neighbors to the south as we discuss issues of illegal immigration. But while we have been focusing our energies down there, something has been going on up in Canada. And it’s big.

What is it, you may ask? Well, this: Soaring Costs Force Canada To Reassess Health Model. Oh, dear. Isn’t this the model the Democrats claimed worked so well, and was one to emulate here in the States? Wasn’t that the constant rallying cry to shove through Obamacare, whether we wanted it or not (and “or not” was what we wanted)? Were not those of us who tried to point out that there were very real problems with the Canadian system scoffed at, derided, and dismissed? Yes, yes we were.

Well, here’s the thing. Once again, we were right, as the article mentioned above demonstrates:

Pressured by an aging population and the need to rein in budget deficits, Canada’s provinces are taking tough measures to curb healthcare costs, a trend that could erode the principles of the popular state-funded system.

Ontario, Canada’s most populous province, kicked off a fierce battle with drug companies and pharmacies when it said earlier this year it would halve generic drug prices and eliminate “incentive fees” to generic drug manufacturers.

British Columbia is replacing block grants to hospitals with fee-for-procedure payments and Quebec has a new flat health tax and a proposal for payments on each medical visit — an idea that critics say is an illegal user fee.

And a few provinces are also experimenting with private funding for procedures such as hip, knee and cataract surgery.

It’s likely just a start as the provinces, responsible for delivering healthcare, cope with the demands of a retiring baby-boom generation. Official figures show that senior citizens will make up 25 percent of the population by 2036.

“There’s got to be some change to the status quo whether it happens in three years or 10 years,” said Derek Burleton, senior economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank.

“We can’t continually see health spending growing above and beyond the growth rate in the economy because, at some point, it means crowding out of all the other government services.

“At some stage we’re going to hit a breaking point.”

Huh. Here Canada is having problems, and their relationship with drug companies seems to be a tad bit different from the one Obama has. That is to say, they are actively fighting them, and fighting FOR their citizens, as opposed to Obama making a deal with Big Pharma from the Get-go which definitely was in Big Pharma’s favor. Yt, Canada is having problems:

MIRROR IMAGE DEBATE

In some ways the Canadian debate is the mirror image of discussions going on in the United States.

Canada, fretting over budget strains, wants to prune its system, while the United States, worrying about an army of uninsured, aims to create a state-backed safety net.

Healthcare in Canada is delivered through a publicly funded system, which covers all “medically necessary” hospital and physician care and curbs the role of private medicine. It ate up about 40 percent of provincial budgets, or some C$183 billion ($174 billion) last year.

Spending has been rising 6 percent a year under a deal that added C$41.3 billion of federal funding over 10 years.

But that deal ends in 2013, and the federal government is unlikely to be as generous in future, especially for one-off projects.

“As Ottawa looks to repair its budget balance … one could see these one-time allocations to specific health projects might be curtailed,” said Mary Webb, senior economist at Scotia Capital.

Brian Golden, a professor at University of Toronto’s Rotman School of Business, said provinces are weighing new sources of funding, including “means-testing” and moving toward evidence-based and pay-for-performance models.

“Why are we paying more or the same for cataract surgery when it costs substantially less today than it did 10 years ago? There’s going to be a finer look at what we’re paying for and, more importantly, what we’re getting for it,” he said.

Other problems include trying to control independently set salaries for top hospital executives and doctors and rein in spiraling costs for new medical technologies and drugs.

Ontario says healthcare could eat up 70 percent of its budget in 12 years, if all these costs are left unchecked.

SEVENTY PERCENT?? Well, I don’t have to be a Nobel Prize Winner in Economics to know THAT is not good (though these days, accomplishments have become passe – ahem):

“Our objective is to preserve the quality healthcare system we have and indeed to enhance it. But there are difficult decisions ahead and we will continue to make them,” Ontario Finance Minister Dwight Duncan told Reuters.

The province has introduced legislation that ties hospital chief executive pay with the quality of patient care and says it wants to put more physicians on salary to save money.

In a report released last week, TD Bank said Ontario should consider other proposals to help cut costs, including scaling back drug coverage for affluent seniors and paying doctors according to quality and efficiency of care.

Those sound like some possible options, but the outcome is unclear:

WINNERS AND LOSERS

The losers could be drug companies and pharmacies, both of which are getting increasingly nervous.

“Many of the advances in healthcare and life expectancy are due to the pharmaceutical industry so we should never demonize them,” said U of T’s Golden. “We need to ensure that they maintain a profitable business but our ability to make it very very profitable is constrained right now.”

Scotia Capital’s Webb said one cost-saving idea may be to make patients aware of how much it costs each time they visit a healthcare professional. “(The public) will use the services more wisely if they know how much it’s costing,” she said.

“If it’s absolutely free with no information on the cost and the information of an alternative that would be have been more practical, then how can we expect the public to wisely use the service?”

But change may come slowly. Universal healthcare is central to Canada’s national identity, and decisions are made as much on politics as economics.

“It’s an area that Canadians don’t want to see touched,” said TD’s Burleton. “Essentially it boils down the wishes of the population. But I think, from an economist’s standpoint, we point to the fact that sometimes Canadians in the short term may not realize the cost.”

($1=$1.05 Canadian) (Reporting by Claire Sibonney; editing by Janet Guttsman and Peter Galloway)

Isn’t that the single biggest issue right now? Once a social program has begun, people do not want to give them up? Isn’t that what happened in Greece? Isn’t that a big problem for the US, too? We continue to expand and extend programs that have massive benefits we cannot afford. For example, did you know in some states Unemployment Benefits were extended to 99 weeks? I’m sure you can do the math, but that’s almost 2 years! Could that money not have been better used in a WPA sort of way? Or some other jobs-creation plan? There are claims that the EUC is actually expanding unemployment. That is, simply put, problematic.

But here’s the biggest problem with the whole Canadian health care crisis compared to ours – our financial numbers were fudged. Only after the bill became a law did the REAL numbers start coming out, and they are NOT good. Check out what former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin stated recently:

Yikes. Again, this is what happens when a bill is rammed through without people bothering to read it first, filling it full of pork and giveaways, and expecting more service for less money. That is to say, it was fraught with problems from the beginning. We can only hope that before it is fully implemented, there is a massive overhaul or repeal.

I am all for people having health care, but as I have said before, let’s be smart about it. Do our homework first. REALLY look at the numbers, get out of Obama’s Big Pharma deal, and do right by all of our citizens, not corporations or political parties. Let Canada be a warning to us.

  • Hope

    If you had something wrong with what country would you want be in? you bet America

  • Katmoon

    Sorry for the off topic, but Rev Amy, I suspect you are the one removing the Fake Ferd, and I appreciate it very much. Thank you. :*

  • Ferd Berfle

    Another excellent essay, RRRA. An objective analysis of healthcare would have yielded a much different program than that idiocy passed by Congress and signed by BO(ZO). I only hope that in November we can put the planners, their plan, and their supporters on notice. Their “yes we can” will become a resounding “Oh, no you won’t”.

  • EllenD

    For example, did you know in some states Unemployment Benefits were extended to 99 weeks? I’m sure you can do the math, but that’s almost 2 years! Could that money not have been better used in a WPA sort of way?

    RRRA we at NQ have at least two people who have gone a year and a year and a half of looking diligently without finding a job.
    There may be more than those two that I am not aware of.
    I’m not ready to say we shouldn’t support an extension.

  • propertius

    And yet, RRRA, Canadians spend less than half of what Americans do, per capita, on healthcare – and they have better outcomes. Of course, they’re not subsidizing the insurance companies, either.

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    I’m more pissed off that even the most bottom-line-lamest of government workers now make a six figure salary than at some poor schmuck who can’t find a job in Obama’s America.

  • Katmoon

    I know EllenD, you keep hearing about the extensions, and wonder where is the financial support going to come from for these benefits; not to mention it isn’t the best incentive to have someone out looking for a job. Granted there are less and less jobs out there that can support one person, let alone a family, but the answer isn’t unemployment benefits, the answer would be more jobs in the private sector. I just got a job after a year of looking ,graduating last year, it was rough and very ugly onfor those over 40. I found a small law firm that is really rubberbands and gum right now, but I love it, and am very grateful for the job, it helps supplement the kids when times are rough, and sadly military pay isn’t quite making it; I wanted the work to help, and to put away so Ferd doesn’t have to work until 80. Also, I like keeping my brain active. I would at least be entertained and busy if cleaning a motel room, if that is all i could get over becoming crazy bored waiting for an unemployment check every week for nearly 2 years.

  • donjo

    Most systems have to adjusted somewhat according to changing conditions.  I’d rather have the Canadian system on a bad day that the shitpot system we’ve got here on its most glorious day.

  • Ferd Berfle

     I’d rather have the Canadian system on a bad day that the shitpot system we’ve got here on its most glorious day.
    =============
    To which system are you referring? The one that the big-eared jughead in the WH insisted on foisting on us (and will bankrupt us) or the one before that at least worked, however poorly.

  • Yttik

    The problem with extending unemployment benefits for two years is that that it is not free money. States have to go collect it from employers. When employers have to pay really high unemployment insurance rates, they can’t afford to hire anybody. It’s a catch 22. You get a few extra weeks of unemployment, but there are no jobs waiting for you when your benefits run out.

  • Yttik

    Interesting post, Rev Amy.

    The rich people I know, when paying for medical care with their own money, don’t go to Canada or the US. They go to Thailand and Mexico. Apparently the quality of care in Thailand is pretty amazing.

    I don’t understand what Mexico offers that is so desirable, but sure enough, I have a neighbor who travels all the way there just for her dental work. She claims the quality is much better then what’s offered here in the US or Canada.

  • Peggy Sue

    The fact is regardless of how much people may like a system if it bankrupts the country, it’s unworkable.  If the Canadian system will suck up 70% of the country’s revenue it’s unsustainable. Doesn’t matter how great it is. 

    Same thing with Obamacare. If the costs skyrocket because of creative accounting at the start, the program will be dead in the water. The math is the math. Numbers can be manipulated. But in the end?  It all catches up. The system we had was not working.  We needed reform and we needed to contain costs.  But substituting another unworkable system is nothing more than a cruel joke.  Once the President did secret handshakes with Big Pharma I lost all faith he was serious about reform.  This was about a win for him, not the American public.  And that’s unforgivable.

    Good post, Amy! 

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Yes, I have a friend who goes to Mexico for dental work and her teeth look amazing and half the price from the cost here. Maybe that is what attracts them to go over the border.

  • Ferd Berfle

    So true, OD2EB. I have met far too many incompetent bureacrats who don’t really work and when they do, you want them to go back to not working.

  • Dave

    I have read some of these posts and its clear that a lot of the posts are pure bullshit.  As a retired U.S. Customs Inspector who worked the Norther border at the Detroit area in the late 80′s & early 90′s, I can’t begin to tell you how many Canadians flew into the U. S.to have their medical needs taken care of.  Of course these Canadians had the means to pay for their health care, that was a requirement. Taklking to these individuals you really got a grasp as to why they were leaving Canada to get their treatment.  In one case, an individual needed major heart surgery, in Canada he had to find his own heart surgeon and then find a hospital, get a date for surgery, make all arraingements himself and then hope that everything worked out, the time line for this necessary surgery was anywhere from 6 to 9 months.  This is not the health care I want for my family or myself.  Many people tell me what a wonderful helathcare system , Canada has, of course they have no first hand knowledge of what they are talking about.  Somebody told them it was great !! Every other year Canadas Drs. & nurses went on strike for better wages, won’t that be great.  How would you like to be negotating with SEIU union people for your medical treatment.???

  • sowsear

    Some go to Mexico for non-traditional medical treatment (cancer)
    My Dad used to go to Tijuana for eyecare and dental care until it became too dangerous to drive over.

  • Geoff C..

    Ferd, big-eared jughead how could you? If only he could listen with those big flappers.

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    I do payroll for a living and I can’t count the number of times I’ve dealt with government bureacracies. Generally speaking, the more left wing the city or state the more idiotic and encumbersome the bureacracy…Philadelphia and San Francisco, I’m looking in your direction…

  • Linda C

     The taxes we pay now in both of these programs are not designed to be some “little nest egg” held by the government for our old age.  These taxes are designed to pay out benefits to the current participants receiving benefits while trying to add to the fund as a whole.  The problems is that benefits, esp in Medicare, is fast out pacing payments into the program.  As we age, we consume more health care resources just to manage all of the chronic illnesses we will eventually all get.  Medicare D did not help with the debt and its usefullenss to seniors is questionable.  It helped the pharmaceutical companies and those insurance companies now managing Medicare D benefits.The current health care legislation will also be a big giveaway to these companies.

    The other issue happens when they talk about “containing costs” everyone then cries “death panels”.  I make rounds in nursing homes.  I received a referral to see a 93 year old woman recently admitted to the facility. This woman had multiple medical problems including but not limited to: severe parkinsons, dementia, contractures, malnourished and a feeding tube because she could no longer swallow.  I do want to point out that she was admitted to this facility in this condiditon from a hospital. The family also wanted her to be a full code status in case she arrested.  Which means all of the medical technology would be utilized on this 93 y/o frail woman if she died in order to bring her back to life.  The reason for the referral was that the staff noticed that sometimes she was alert and other times she appeared to be lethargic.  Well like no shit sherlock.  I wish I could tell you that this is a rare event.  I peronsally do not agree with the family’s decison regarding the care of this woman, but it is still the family’s decison.  If we want families to be in charge of the decision making, then it will cost more money and therefore, we need to be willing to pay for it through higher taxes  in order for all of us to continue to have the ability to make those decisons for ouselves and loved ones.If we are unwilling to pay for this ability, then a governmental agency will come in and dictate what will be done and won’t be.  This will lead to even wider disparity of care for those who have the means to pay for it privately versus the rest of us.

    What we can cut out is the giveaways to pharmaceutical companies and those feeding at the trough for excessive profit. I don’t mind people making a profit.  That is how we do business.  However, it has become acceptable for showering excessive profits on companies which only stiffles competition at taxpayers expense.   Then these companies, once they have fed at the trough, offshore their profits and do not pay taxes back into the treasury.

  • EllenD

    I would at least be entertained and busy if cleaning a motel room, if that is all i could get

    You have no idea how much I admire that statement, Katmoon. My Grandmother was a cleaning lady.

    On another thread I heard 2 NQ regulars express the frustrations of being older and willing to take anything but not getting hired for a really long time. I can imagine how soul-destroying that is and the last thing I would want is to cut off their lifeline.

    However I would willingly fire the bankers and overpaid government employees to make up for it.

    As for it being ugly for people over 40 – try over 60. And I’ll let you know when that becomes 70.

    Happy you’re with a small rubberbands-and-gum firm. They’re great. I specialize in startups.

  • EllenD

    Actually the Blue Cross kills us, not so much the UI.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    OH DEAR!Republicans attack healthcare nominee over his love of NHS
    A visionary American academic is at the centre of a new battle over the future of US healthcare because of his fervent admiration for the National Health Service in Britain.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    test

  • EllenD

    Every other year Canadas Drs. & nurses went on strike for better wages

    I wasn’t aware they were unionized.

    In one case, an individual needed major heart surgery, in Canada he had to find his own heart surgeon and then find a hospital, get a date for surgery, make all arraingements himself and then hope that everything worked out, the time line for this necessary surgery was anywhere from 6 to 9 months.

    Nope. This doesn’t fly. Canadian doctors refer you just like in the U.S. and all of them are affiliated with hospitals just like here. And surgery is scheduled like here – the most serious go to the head of the line. And I speak from my experience – not something that someone told me.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Republicans attack healthcare nominee over his love of NHS

    A visionary American academic is at the centre of a new battle over the future of US healthcare because of his fervent admiration for the National Health Service in Britain.
    Donald Berwick, a Harvard-trained paediatrician and founder of a leading health policy think-tank, is being attacked by Republicans who could block his involvement in the enforcement of President Obama’s hard-won health reforms. His sin? To admit that he “fell in love” with the NHS.
    When Professor Berwick was chosen by the White House to lead America’s biggest state-run health provider, his nomination was expected to sail through Congress unchallenged. Mr Obama’s health reforms appeared doomed, and the previous two heads of the Centres for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) had been approved without so much as a formal vote.

  • EllenD

    Medicare D did not help with the debt and its usefullenss to seniors is questionable.  It helped the pharmaceutical companies and those insurance companies now managing Medicare D benefits.The current health care legislation will also be a big giveaway to these companies. 

    Agreed, Linda. Although I’m not crazy about profit made from someone’s misery.

    Interesting story. My mother was hospitalized in Canada when she was 90. Although the doctors wanted to provide heroic measures , it was obvious that she was dying. It took a lot of Medical Advocacy on my part to insist that she be made comfortable and be transferred to a lovely hospice for her last few days with her family. Dying in a hospital stuck full of tubes would have been the last thing she would have wanted.
    Sometimes Doctors don’t want to quit either.

  • EllenD

    Thanks, JustMe. My mum slipped in a bathtub in England and broke her wrist. She got fixed up very nicely.

    My husband was in England shooting a movie. He needed a Doctor and was told that there would be no charge. He felt so guilty because he wasn’t a resident paying taxes that he insisted on paying for it!

    I know it isn’t 11:00 yet but it’s bedtime for this Pacific Coaster. Nite!

  • andyp

    You people make me laugh.  I am from Ontario, Canada and I can assure you that our health care system is alive and well.  My nephew had a liver transplant last year in Edmonton, Alberta (paid not a cent).  My other nephew was diagnosed with myeloma six weeks ago and had surgery (12 hours – paid nothing) within four weeks of diagnoses (PEI) to have a cylander inserted between his 4th and 7th vertebra to in order to strengthen his spine to ensure that he would not become paralyzed.  He started his chemotherapy one week after that.  My sister had breast cancer surgery in Manitoba (paid nothing) two years ago (within three weeks of diagnoses).  I had a general checkup just last week (paid nothing) and got an appointment at one of our better hospitals in Toronto for June 9th – waited about 8 days.  As Bill Clinton said at a speech in Toronto that I attended, there are many in the US who will not grant health care simply because it is an $80 billion a year business.  Get real, people, we have a conservative Government in Canada that wants to cash in on the industry so badly that they would sell their souls – a case  in point would be the Conservative leader in Newfoundland, Danny Williams, who went to Florida for treatment he could have gotten here within 2 weeks – maybe even better care – but he had to make his point – we need to privatize our health care syster.  While you American seem to love using him as an example of how our health care is deteriorating, Canadians just sit back and laugh.  You, nor your stupid customs agents, know buggar all about our health care.  Let’s see, we have the privileged pincessses (I know many of them – I worked for millionaire lawyers my entire life as an assistant) – they go to the US because it makes them feel important. If your doctors do nothing else, they kiss ass like no one else on earth and it makes those people feel real important.  As for the twit who went on Fox all last year and claimed that she would have died had she not gone to Arizona for treatment, it was a big huge joke. I wonder who paid her.  Check the Mayor Clinic Ariszona website.   She had a Rathks’s cyst which did not put her life inn danger at LL and her eyesight, although blurred, was never in danger.  Once surgery took place, she would recover her eyesight in full.  However, there are people in more immediate need and they should come first.  I know people who were bumped becuse someone with a critical illness was put ahead and I know no one who objected.  My friends actually laugh when they get exposed to your idea of what health care in Canada consists of.  Some of them work in hospitals and they say they don’t recognize our system by what they see on American news.  As for Ontario scaling down, drugs were never part of our health care system.  Our health care system does not pay for drugs or dental care.  Some provinces (most) either pay or help to pay for drugs for seniors (and for people on welfare).  They can quit whenever they wish.  I would hope Ontario will not quit, but if they do I and others will manage.

    Keep the faith.  Two years ago our health care was in danger as far as you Americans were concerned.  But it hasn’t happened.  And I for one don’t believe it will.

    I love this site and visit it daily.  But you know nothing about health care in Canada.

  • beyond_words

    Preach it brother amen. My father nearly died from bone marrow cancer back in the early 90′s. An entire year of massive chemo nearly killed him. 
    Our system scoured the entire country for an appropiate exact bone marrow donor and he was flown  all the way to Ottawa for the specialist surgery bone marrow transplant.
    He had full success and full recovery with no remission since then. No direct direct charge. (Thank god that would have bankrupted any middle class family) — And yes we pay for it through high pay-roll and goods and services taxes.

    PS Danny Williams is a hypocrit as well. He built his political persona partly around being mr.”captain medi-care” and then jets off to florida to the “super-specialist” when he could have had the exact same care in ontario but didnt want to wait in line like the rest of us peasants.

  • andyp

    They are already testing my nephew’s siblings in case he needs a bone marrow transplant.  I know that to some our system of pre-emption stands for nothing but I will take it any day.  I love our health care system with all its flaws.

  • andyp

    I am replying to Ferd.  Good for you. As a Canadian, I love our health care system.  I would not trade my health care for anything the US can offer.  And I do not believe that we are a socialist country.  The only perk we have as I see it is health care and it was fought for.  The G20 countries all came to the unanimous conclusion that Canada is the only country whose banks remained grounded because our Government didn’t fiddle around with our money.  I despise Stephen Harper (who was the president of tbe National Citizens Coalition  before running for office, whose primary reason for being was to get rid of health care in Canada and replace it with the system that you have.  As Bill Clinton said in a speech that I attended, there are billions of dollars to be had in private health care and people will sell their souls for it.  Conscientious Canadians watch Harper like a hawk.  For now, because of all the disingenuous politicians we see throughout the world we prefer a minority government.  Of course, who is the alternative to Harper, but Michaelt Ignatieff had the same background (Harvard) as your excuse for a Preisdent.  We are too leery to elect him although we would like to.

  • andyp

    Trust me, I would rather be in Canada.  What the hell is the good of your (so-called) best care in the world if you cannot afford to access it. Let us get real here.  The Canadian system serves me just fine.  As for those who go across the border – I will go with your past president, Bill Clinton.  They like to project an image that our health care is bogus.  As Clinton said last August in a speech that I attended in Canada, private health care is an $80 billion a year business and that drives your system.  Many in our country would like to sell their souls for profit and money from the health of its citaizens like those in your country, but thank God that has not happened as yet.  I have a friend who married an American doctor who moved to Toronto and the access we Canadians have to health care amazes him. He approves wholeheartedly.  We know of what we speak.  You do not know anything about Canadian health care.  If and when you need it, we can discuss it.  Otherwise you do not know what you are talking about.  My best friend just returned to the US as she retired (to be close to her family) and her only worry is your health care system.  She loves our system.

  • andyp

    That is a blatant misunderstanding or a lie.

  • andyp

    When I say that is a lie, I mean that I have never had doctors go on strike.  In some stupid provinces like Alberta, where they are deidcated to bringing in private care, maybe.  But I have been in Ontairo for 40 years and have never known our doctors to go on strike.

  • beyond_words

    “But I have been in Ontairo for 40 years and have never known our doctors to go on strike.”

    Agreed. That’s the true B.S. On the other hand there are some procedures that have long waiting lists true. And I dont begrudge canadians with the funds to get potentially life threatening procedures done and cross the border, all the power to them. Our system isnt perfect but it does indeed work for us.

  • andyp

    Read my last post and see how well my family fared on Canadian health care.  I would like to know of the case you are talking about.  On geater scrutiny, we usually find out that there are holes in the story.  This sounds bogus to me.  I have never known anyone in Canada who had a life-threatening illness who was not treated.  I can attest – a sister who had breast cancer – a brother who received a liver transplant – a nephew who received probably about $1 million worth of health care (within four weeks of diagnosis).  Read my last post.  I DO NOT KNOW of a single soul who had life-threatening heart disease who had to arrange on his own to go to the US.  You people are swallowing the big lie.  I do not kow why you prefer to misunderstand, but trust me, you know nothing about our helath care. If you did, you would not be posting these untruths.  If it makes you feel better, by all means denigrate our health care system.

    Please get informed.  My Canadian friends laugh at your misunderstanding of our health care system.  We do not even recognize it from the way you speak.

    And there is another thing that you fail to realize – There are as many Americans who come to Canada as Canadians who  go to the US.  For 30 years, I had one of the best doctors in Canada – an American brought up in Florida who married a Canadian.  He loved our system and would never trade our system for yours. 

  • beyond_words

    “But I have been in Ontairo for 40 years and have never known our doctors to go on strike.” 
     
    Agreed. That’s the true B.S. On the other hand there are some procedures that have long waiting lists. It’s not perfect but it works for us. Always room for improvement.

  • Katmoon

    Well, I shoud have said over 50, but encompassed the decade before me :-D ; Cleaningis something I like to keep busy with, my hands know what to do while my mind gets to go to the playground. I remember my Grandmother, making money ironing other people’s clothing. Not because she wasn’t an intelligent woman; she was however reservation born, and 3rd grade educated, and TB ward encarcerated, yet she continued on. She was able to educate herself by reading and became a very important role model to me on not complaining and moving forward. A true realist who used to say: “Well the glass may be half full, but when its full of sh$t, it still stinks!” Miss her still. Kind of had a Calamity Jane of Deadwood sort of vocabulary sans the drinking.

    It must be more dificult as we age into our 60′s, I have a couple lines I used in my interview that seemed to please my attorneys, They asked why I didn’t stay in medicine(I was an RN) I told them most(notice Docelder I did not say all- :) ) Doctors think they are Gods, but are a$$holes,Most Attorneys(not our jbjd) pray to God they wil stop becoming worse a$$holes. And the obvious comment of would your wife prefer a woman my age working for you, or a young college student? A little manipulative-of course, but it worked and has some truth to it.(shades of the Fried Green Tomatoes parking scene).

  • kenoshamarge

    Could 99 weeks on unemployment also have something to do with those jobs that people “won’t” take? If you had your choice of staying home or doing hot, dirty, hard work and collecting about the same amount of money, perhaps less, what would you do?

    If you had no choice but to take some hot, dirty job that didn’t pay well or not putting food on the table or keeping a roof over the head what would you do? Would there then be any “job”  that people turned their nose up at?

  • Touchet

    Plenty of jobs out there.  People have to accept that they won’t get a high paying job anymore.  Gone are the days of the middle class.  If you lost your high paying job and can’t find another one, its because you have been selected by the elite to become poor again.

    Kohl’s is hiring.  McDonalds, Arby’s, ect…  yeah, you are going to have to suffer a job where you work holidays, weekends, and don’t have 4 weeks of vacation a year.  You won’t be getting a 9 to 5 either and it may not be full time.

    In the meantime, Mr. CEO will be happy to let you suffer  He doesn’t care.  His generation was spoiled rotten to the core.  He deserves it.  Its his right to make all the money and treat you like crap.

  • Touchet

    They don’t have as many restrictions.  And they don’t have doctors that are stingy as crap with the pain killers.  You pay the money, you get what you want.  Thats how a service should be.  The doctor shouldn’t be deciding how much pain you are in.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Oh, I wish I could – I don’t have that power.  My guess is they are deleting themselves and are just trying to rile you, Ferd, and the rest of us who KNOW Ferd. 

    If it continues to happen, PLEASE send the entire comment to susanunpc at gmail dotcom with the entire comment and the post it is in.  Thanks!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thanks, Ferd – I appreciate it.

    And that’s just it – for something that was going to affect fully 1/6th of our economy, why WOULDN’T they take their time, be deliberate, and look at all the angles?  They sure as hell wouldn’t have given into Big Pharma from the outset.  And we might have something that really was going to be good for all of us,a nd not cost and arm and a leg…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    EllenD, I am  in no way blaming people who cannot find a job.  Unemployment in my state is very high.  My POINT is during the last Great Depression, people were put to work by the government.  With all we need in this country right now, wouldn’t that make more sense?  It would give people who were doing the work the satisfaction of doing work worth doing, would help everyone else, and change the whole tenor of how those who are unemployed see themselves. It would help with self-worth, as well as help get work done (like in our National Parks, for instance).

    That’s what I meant, not that they weren’t trying to find jobs.  Sorry if that was unclear.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Wow, I admit, I didn’t know that abt Mexico and Thailand.  Interesting.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thanks, Peggy Sue – you said it: The fact is regardless of how much people may like a system if it bankrupts the country, it’s unworkable.  If the Canadian system will suck up 70% of the country’s revenue it’s unsustainable. Doesn’t matter how great it is.  

    And that’s whatr the CBO is trying to tell us now, too…

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I appreciate your comments, but I didn’t make up these stats or anything.  This is what the Canadian government is saying.  If they’re saying it, wouldn’t you think there might be a problem?

  • tango

    Yes, free health care beats no health care anyday, even though you aren’t really getting it free at all. So if you pay taxes for good care and I pay an insurance company via premiums for great care, then what’s the problem?  It’s two different ways of paying for care and both systems have their pluses and minues. The question for America is how to pay for those not insured and how to keep health care costs reasonable.

    The object of this article wasn’t to point out how inadequate Canadian care is verses the American system.  It points out that even Canada is concerned about future medical costs and how to manage them.  You can bet if costs become 70% of the budget in 12 years, then medical service is seriously going to suffer or other services, say fire and police, are going to be dramatically cut. 

    So rather then tell us how wonderful the Canadian system is, tell us YOUR ideas on how Canada can save money, decrease costs, cut budgets, raise revenue, etc, to address the future medical cost crisis it will face?  And it will face it!  

  • surfered

    The health care model the Democrats worked so hard to emulate was Mitt Romney’s.

  • andyp

    You pay insurance companies astronomical amounts of money.  From what I see on Fox and other channels, you can pay up to $20,000 a year for a family.  I don’t pay that in taxes and people earning under $100,000 don’t.  As for saving money, I could give the Government many ways.  Our hospitals are run abysmally.  There is more waste and there are more little  fiefdoms in hospitals.  I have never met anyone who worked in hospitals who don’t have nightmare scenarios about how their departments are run.  Also, I believe that everyone should get a copy of all OHIP payments to doctors and requests from doctors.  We should be monitoring our health care bills. This would be one way to ensure that doctors did not double charge; when they don’t get paid on time, send in another bill and possibly get paid double – not stealing but just ineptness on both parts.  If we got our bills we would be able to report this type of thing.  I could go on and on.  Like any bureaucracy, there is so much inefficiency. 

  • andyp

    The Canadian government can make stats say anything they want them to be.   Remember, we have a Conservative Government and our Prime Minister was President of the National Citizens Coalition before running for Prime Minister.  This organization was started strictly to find ways to eliminate the public health care system.  As I said, you can make statistics whatever you want them to be. 

  • andyp

    Please know that I am no being critical of you.  I read this blog every day and appreciate it very much.  It is refreshing to have in a time when everything in the world seems to be out of whack.  As for stats, when Canadians are surveyed on what they value most, Health Care is always on top.  We had a national contest on CBC a few years ago whereby hundreds of people started out being eligible to be voted for the most influential Canadian, which was the name of the program.  After most were weeded out and it was narrowed down to 10 people, they had actors perform the lives of the 10 individuals and point out to the people the striking aspects of those people’s lives.  At the end, my favourite politician, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, lost out to Tommy Douglas, the father of health care in Canada who was voted number 1 Canadian.  He is, incidentally also the father of Keifer Sutherland.  His mother, Shirley Douglas, was married to Donald Sutherland.  One of tbest quotes I ever heard came from Tommy Douglas – “during the 20th century, man learned to fly like a bird, swim like a fish and burrow through the ground like a mole.  Hopefully, during the 21st century he will learn to walk the earth like a man” of course “man” being generic for mankind.  He died before political correctness. 

    Remember, I am not being critical of you.  you are dealing every day with the trash that anti-health care people in Canada put out – yes, people in our government as well.  And I don’t think the young are being vigilent enough.  They don’t seem to realize that once it is gone, it is gone and they will not get it back. I am old enough to know people who went into debt and lost everything before we nationalized our health care.  I knew a retired lawyer who worked as night watchman in a residence I lived in.  He had the good life and lost it overnight when his wife contracted cancer.  He spent all his money on her health care and lived a very meagre existence in his old age.  I just get annoyed that the material is out there in the first instance.  I keep remembering what Bill Clinton said in the speech that I attended:  “There is $80 billion a year to be made from private  health care and that is the crux of why some Americans fight so hard to keep it.”  It is also why so many Canadians fight so hard to acquire it.  Don’t get me wrong – I abhore socialism, comunism, etc., and feel as much shock and rage as you do about the trend towards socialism and our new trend of teaching the extreme leftist garbage in schools.  I don’t believe government should pay for everything.  I believe citizens should be responsible for their lives.  But I also believe that health care gives us a somewhat even place to start.

  • andyp

    Alao, Rev. Amy, remember our government is no better than yours.  Politicians the world over seem to forget that they work for us.

  • EllenD

    EXCELLENT RRRA! Right on! 
    We have all these skilled people unemployed and collecting UI. The ones I know are frustrated and starting to lose their sense of self-worth.
    We have things that we, as a society, need done. And we have an available work force. Why can’t we put these together?

    FDR’s Conservation Corps was a perfect example.
    The concept would have to be tailored to today’s society, but I can see all kinds of possibilities – Graffiti Removal, School upgrade work, Teaching English to non-English speakers – heck, teaching English to the Illiterate (American History also would be welcome).

    I don’t want to take away union jobs, but there is maintenance stuff that needs to be done that isn’t getting done and our cultural infrastructure is  falling apart as well as the physical one.

    I knew your response would be creative, Amy!

  • Just Thoughts

    Obamacare is Romneycare.  Link below gives a blog on the issue, as well as conquences when someone doesn’t agree with Mitt.

    http://mittromney2012potus.blogspot.com/2010/04/if-you-dont-support-mitts-views-you-get.html

  • Just Thoughts

    The health care is not free. It is paid for by taxes. The system put in place is not a singler payer system.  Other nations other than Canada have national health care system. A few years back I had a discussion with a ‘down under’ Aussie who was in the Aussie goverment in a political postion, and he was highly positive of their health care system.

    It issue facing Americans, is not so much a national health care system but if as a nation and leadership create and run one which is not full of corruption.

  • NorthwestGirl_ThatRenterAgain

    Make that 3 readers.  I’ve been around since the Hillary days, although these days I’m only a sporadic reader.  Because I spend so much time combing online job boards for work, my energy for other types of surfing is limited.  I was laid off in January, 2009, and yowzah am I tired of constantly looking for work and seeing my down payment cash absolutely evaporate before my eyes.  The best I can say is that 2010 seems to have brought a bit of rebound.  I’m getting more calls from recruiters, and I’ve gone all the way to the in-person interview once and I have a phone interview for a position in another English-speaking country, where there’s more work, next week.  This is more progress than I made in all of 2009.  My search is hampered by a former employer’s agreements that don’t allow me to take work in certain sectors for the next while, which I accepted at the time because I wouldn’t think of quitting a job I knew I was well suited for and the company in question had never done layoffs.

    I now know that non competes are a bad thing when there are enforced even when you leave a company due to no fault of your own, because I had an opportunity in hand late last year, that that previous employer nuked when they found out about it.

  • NorthwestGirl_ThatRenterAgain

    A friend of mine in New Zealand swears by Thailand’s dental care for major work.  He was checked into a real live hospital, where he actually got to dare I say it recover after the procedure.  The two leads of his dental team graduated from US schools, and he thought that the care and facilities were the equivalent of the best he’d experienced in the US.  And as others noted, because you’re being supervised, they’re not stingy with painkillers either.  Another friend in SoCal swears by Mexico’s.  Dental insurance anywhere tends to not be as generous as medical insurance as far as major corrective procedures go, so it doesn’t surprise me that this is taking off.  Even “the rich” like value — in many cases, looking for value is how they got to the financial position they’re in.

  • MrX

    Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy, To answer your question, when your government says there is a problem, are you sure they’re not pulling your chain?  It’s healthcare.  They’re always going to look to reduce costs.  But Harper wants private care because of the influence of drug companies.  I’m afraid you have zero clue what you’re talking about in this matter.

  • EllenD

    NorthWest Girl, good luck. Sounds like you may be in my business, where there are uncaring by-the-book HR people.

    I hope you get that job, even if you do have to leave the country. A change of scenery would be good for you.

    Non-competes should only be used when companies are bought and the buyers don’t want the original founders in competition with them for a while.

    There is absolutely NO REASON to have a non-compete clause in an employee at-will agreement when you can lay off a person at any time for any reason. Not only is that unreasonably cruel, but – hey any labor lawyers here – isn’t it illegal to force employees into employment agreements where you can keep them from earning a livelihood if you dismiss them? (Obviously not talking about the rich founder situation).

  • EllenD

    So if you pay taxes for good care and I pay an insurance company via premiums for great care, then what’s the problem?  It’s two different ways of paying for care and both systems have their pluses and minues. The question for America is how to pay for those not insured and how to keep health care costs reasonable.

    I think the difference, Tango, is that the WHOLE amount in Canada goes for Healthcare but in the U.S. the Insurance Companies have to make a PROFIT.
    The profit diminishes the amount that actually goes into the healthcare delivery. Add the fact that there are multiple Insurance Companies with multiple paperwork that doctors have to deal with and that just pushes the doctors’ costs up.

    Thanks, Andy for your comments. It’s been a long time since I had my operations in Canada so my experiences aren’t as fresh as yours.

    What you find is that in the US, while Americans don’t trust the American Media or the Politicians, they trust Canadian Media and Politicians.
    They obviously never read about Mulroney. ;)

  • opit

    Long time no quip.
    Ezra Klein – before he went on to paid blogging and thought by some to whore for the system – had a horde of commenters and contributors that would wonk the hell out of even Kevin Drum’s Political Animal at Washington Post. Those were the days when they had stars in their eyes and could change the world. They landed at Antemedius BTW
    Ezra had a comparative graph about costs and outcomes he called ‘Health of Nations’.
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/health_of_nations/
    There you go. I even posted the most recent iteration.
    And drinking liberally in new milford had lovely posts on healthcare and the fight for affordable health funding.
    Now understand : Ezra had a doctor who gave the gang the blow by blow on what billing umpteen outfits all trying to cherrypick their clientel and provide the fewest actual payments via exemption clauses all while dealing in situations that were often rushed and offered few options meant. The accounting department sounded like it should have been run by paralegals or collection agency veterans. And this was before anything got done.
    And if we north of the 49th sound mouthy and act as if we couldn’t run your system down enough it’s because the pricks are constantly out to fleece us as well.
    My son wouldn’t be alive without our single payer system : which exempts drugs because it was a deal maker to get medicare in. Just so you know I am damn well partial. But there are other options.
    I just don’t think you’re going to get them from the Big O or Clinton, who had more ‘insurance’ company payola running their campaigns than enough.
    The pharmaceutical industry toasts to your ill health 
    Your good health translates into zero profit for the pharmaceutical industry. General well-being of the public and cures for disease would mean the collapse of the pharmaceutical industry since they must have illness to have demand for their drugs, in order to exist. This is the truth that drives political corruption, mandating of vaccines, control over the healthcare industry, and efforts to destroy natural health companies and practititioners.

  • NorthwestGirl_ThatRenterAgain

    Thanks, Ellen, I agree that non-competes are being used excessively to limit future competition without providing those who sign them with suitable consideration for what they’re giving up. I currently am in final stages of negotiating with a potential employer that does not run afoul of THAT non-compete… but the problem is that it has one that is even worse and would restrict me even more for 2 years after leaving that potential employer.  And of course, it is an employment-at-will contract that the company can terminate at any time, and the company will not release me from the non-compete if I am separated by their choice rather than mine.  My attorney has advised me on a preliminary review of it not to take it unless our request to modify the non-compete is accepted, especially given that the last person in the role only lasted 6 months before it “didn’t work out” (no idea whose decision that was… they won’t say).  If I only lasted 6 months, I’d still have part of employer #1′s contract PLUS the new one, making my employment options almost nil and putting me in a worse job-hunting place than I am now.  This pending one is a very broad agreement and between the both of them, I estimate I’d be restricted from pursuing opportunities in likely 90% of the local industry, including businesses I might start myself (I presented several as “existing intellectual property” during interviews), whereas right now I’m only cut off from about 30% of them.  And unfortunately, regardless of its legal standing in a purely academic sense, any non-compete is likely enforceable enough against a low-level type like me, because the entity bringing legal action is going to have far deeper pockets.

  • NorthwestGirl_ThatRenterAgain

    Oh, and yes, I and all of my friends are praying (we’re allowed to say that here, and not immediately get written off as delusional hyper-fundamentalists, right?) that the phone interview leads to an in-person interview and leads to an offer.  The change of scenery would definitely be good, and some international business experience wouldn’t be bad, either.  Us over-40 women, especially those of us who would not be considered conventionally attractive, need all the extra resume points we can get.

  • NorthwestGirl_ThatRenterAgain

    Re-reading the last sentence I wrote, I can’t help adding:  Although as recent years’ events have shown, even that might not matter if we’re seen in public “cackling” and wearing modest pant suits.

  • andyp

    Sorry, Tommy Douglas is the grandfather of Keifer Sutherland.

  • EllenD

    any non-compete is likely enforceable enough against a low-level type like me

    NorthWestGirl, if you are low level why the heck are they concerned about whether you go with the competition? They must be delusional.

    And you are saying that the offer from this other English-speaking country is WORSE in non-compete than the U.S?
    That’s really weird. I’ve worked in Canada and English-speaking Europe (but not Australia) and I’ve always thought the U.S. was worst in employee protection.

    I wish you the best. You must be really SPECIAL in some area to get this treatment. Are you special enough to go to Europe and get away from their clutches? One thing to consider – if you are far enough away they have to spend a lot on lawyers to go after you.

  • andyp

    We don’t pay anywhere near what you pay insurance companies from our taxes.  Let us get real here. 

  • andyp

    The American problem is that Obama sold you out to everyone he could. 

  • tzada

    Good article.

    This is kinda on, and kinda off topic.  It is about Canada.  Anyhow, Amy did you see where the president of Mexico, contacted Canada and wants them to let Mexicans in without visa?  wonder where they are going with that?  Myself I think they want open borders like the EU.  Which is working so well what with the Euro and all……

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  • Ha!

    Amy your analysis is rather thin and confusing. Not sure what exactly your points are?

    First, the Canadian system actually budgets healthcare, which is a good thing, because it at least gives the govt the levers to control healthcare costs. In the U.S. it is mostly private and uncompetitive so there are no levers to control cost whatsoever. All countries around the planet have to deal with demographics and budgeting healthcare. The reality is the U.S. spends more twice as much per capita as any other western nation. The Canadian system works far better than the U.S. healthcare system. I would also add, that the healthcare bill continues with an entirely private system and no one in the Obama adminstration ever proposed a single-payer system like in Canada.

    Second, I agree that big pharma should be better controlled regarding costs and prices.

    You seem to be making an argument on one hand against a govt system like Canada and then in the very next paragraph arguing that govt should fight big pharma. What is it? Are you for a socialized system or not? Your analysis is very confusing!