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Roe v McCain

For PUMA voters, Independents and moderates alike… this is a MAJOR question when contemplating a vote for John McCain, and one that no one seems to be answering honestly.

Peeling back the pandering and the rhetoric, I will attempt to answer this genuinely difficult question… “What about Roe?”

I feel the need to make it EXPLICITLY CLEAR that I am PRO-CHOICE and UNWAIVERINGLY SO.  I DO NOT want Roe v Wade overturned and think that, no matter the merits, it is a Stare Decisis decision at this point and should be judged accordingly.

Ok, so now that is out of the way, on the the rest…

Let’s be honest about this… John McCain is a conservative. We cannot ignore that nor should we pretend that he is anything but.

The question that everyone seems to be passing over is “what kind of a conservative is he?”

The answer is that he is more like a Barry Goldwater than he is a George Bush. He is not a “neo-con” that is in bed with the religious right. He is not a “born again” Christian and he is not a fundamentalist Christian. He is a true conservative in that he has a big libertarian streak with the desire to limit the role of the Federal Government in local and personal issues.

Now, let me make this clear… a person can be pro-choice and not support the Roe v Wade decision. They are two separate, but admittedly linked, issues.

To make things as clear as possible, let me explain exactly what the Roe says…

The Roe v Wade decision states that laws against abortion violated a constitutional right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, that a woman had a right to an abortion up to the point where the fetus is viable outside of the womb and set up a “trimester” system. The decision overturned all state and federal laws outlawing or restricting abortion that were inconsistent with its holdings.

Ok, so now with that out of the way, what does John McCain believe about Roe v Wade, what does he want to do about it and why?

First, what does he believe about Roe v Wade?

John McCain believes that Roe v Wade is a flawed decision.

For him, the problem he has with Roe is not really about the result of the decision (the legalization of abortion) but about the legal reasoning behind the decision. He believes that the Supreme Court basically invented a right to privacy and claimed to find it in the Due Process clause of the 14th Ammendment.

To be honest, he has a very good case. He is not entirely wrong. Even though I am staunchly pro-choice and believe that the result of the decision is the proper one, the language Justice Blackmun infers from the Due Process clause in justifying the decision is a big stretch. The legal basis for the Roe v Wade decision is widely recognized as extremely weak and has been subject to criticism not only by the conservatives but even by famous liberal legal scholars such as Alan Dershowitz, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Kermit (Kim) Roosevelt, and several others including Cass Sunstein, an Obama advisor no less.

The Roe v Wade decision is probably the closest you can get to legitimately arguing that judges are “legislating from the bench” because of the tenuous legal basis upon which the decision is based and the sweeping result it had upon the population and culture of the United States.

As an aside, it is also interesting to note that Lawrence Tribe, Barack Obama’s mentor at Harvard Law, is among those highly critical of Roe. In light of this tidbit, the fact that Obama was going to vote for Roberts’ appointment and was prepared to lambast the Democrats for filibustering his appointment until a staffer informed him that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea is quite interesting.

Regardless…

Second, what does McCain want to do about it?

The answer to this is simple. He wants Roe v Wade overturned.

So what happens then? Is abortion automatically illegal?

No, no abortion doesn’t become automatically illegal. (There are like 5 states, like Illinois, that have “trigger laws” that would make abortion illegal, but those were passed in the 70’s and many of those state are far more liberal now than they were then.)

So essentially, nothing happens immediately.

John McCain wants the issue sent back to the states so that they can decide for themselves, which is inevitably what would happen.

Then the states decide for themselves and very few, if any, would enact restrictions.

Third, why does McCain want it overturned?

Does McCain believe that life begins at conception? Absolutely. There is no question of that and he has been quite clear.

Is he Pro-Choice? To an extent, yes.

While he has a zero rating from Naral every year and is personally pro-life, he does believe that the states should decide for themselves. He will advocate for “life” at all times, but he is a true believer in Federalist principles and thinks that states should have the final say on the issue.

He has said more than once that he believes that life begins at conception, but that he supports the rights of others that disagree.

John McCain has also made it abundantly clear that while he is personally pro-life, his opposition to Roe is based upon the flawed reasoning behind the law and the over-reaching power of the bench rather than purely religious reasons.

This is where he diverges radically from people like George Bush and the Religious Right.

He also supports embryonic stem cell research, which is another great philosophical divide between McCain and the religious base of the Republican Party.

Now, we also have to remember that these things take time and a variety of factors have to click just right for Roe to get overturned, so it is not like the moment McCain gets elected that Roe is gone. First, a seat has to open up on the Supreme Court, something that the Roe screaming Obamabots seem to over look that this is not certain to happen, just a strong possibility. Then the appointee has to not moderate once on the bench (which does happen regularly.) Then a case has to work it’s way up through the courts that has the right merits to challenge Roe.

So this is what McCain believes, what he wants and why. Is this ideal?  No, especially not for pro-choice women.

The question of Roe and voting for McCain is a hard one and I understand why. This was a landmark decision and one that even I don’t particularly want to have to fight again….

But here is my question to you… Is the women’s movement so atrophied that the terms Roe v Wade and Women’s Movement are now interchangable?

What about the right for women to aspire to the top positions in the country and not get called silly, dumb, a bitch or a bad parent? What about equality of women in the workplace and in the home? What about respect for women as people in the media, in the home and in the workplace?

If the women’s movement is more than just Roe v Wade and is more about gender equality and respect, then please explain to me how it is that Sarah Palin is not a giant step forward for women?

I am in no way saying that anyone should vote for Palin solely because of gender, anymore than I would advocate that people vote for Obama based on the color of his skin, but that people recognize her for what she symbolizes…  a step forward, not backward.

What is most important to you is for you to decide.

Anyway, so there it is… what McCain believes and some food for thought.

I want to remind you that I am STAUNCHLY PRO-CHOICE and am a DEVOTED FEMINIST before you start commenting!

I want to hear from you, please tell me what you think and how you feel about this subject… just dont start yelling at me LOL.

This is cross posted from my blog at Texas Hill Country

  • lark

    Obambi in New Mexico went totally psychotic on his speech. It is so insane that words can’t describe it. What a classic desperado politician he showed to be. There is just too much insanity.

    Now the MSM will just say that Obama showed McCain off.

  • db

    I watched No Quarter’s video of McCain on the view. I will not vote for BO, but after watching The View with McCain and the question concerning Roe.vs. Wade, I don not think I can vote for him.

    I’m also gay. And it seems that the abortion issues is always tied up with gay rights (marriage).

    Bo flip-flops on everything. Look at ‘Don’t ask don’t tell’.
    I know where McCain is coming from but I don’t like his stand on social matters.

    If McCain believes in separation of church and state, he should believe in the privacy of a woman’s right to choose.
    He believes life starts at inception. How the heck does he know when life starts?

  • John Smith

    McCain gave a great speech today. I wonder how Obama will answer for the fact that he was taking money form Freddie and Fannie and at the same time blocking the reform that was needed to prevent what is happening today.

  • benny

    ok, this the final time that I’ll copy and paste a statement from another PUMA site, cos I believe its relevant to the topic. I won’t do it again.

    This is from another PUMA site, and it upsets me. Looks like everyone is out to lynch Palin.

    In stunningly self-centered, cruel fashion, Nicholas Provenzo, writer for the Center for the Advancement of Capitalism suggests that Sarah Palin’s decision to give birth to a child with Down Syndrome, is a financial burden that others are forced to suffer with.

    Quote:
    Like many, I am troubled by the implications of Alaska governor and Republican Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s decision to knowingly give birth to a child disabled with Down syndrome. Given that Palin’s decision is being celebrated in some quarters, it is crucial to reaffirm the morality of aborting a fetus diagnosed with Down syndrome (or by extension, any unborn fetus)—a freedom that anti-abortion advocates seek to deny.

    Quote:
    A parent has a moral obligation to provide for his or her children until these children are equipped to provide for themselves. Because a person afflicted with Down syndrome is only capable of being marginally productive (if at all) and requires constant care and supervision, unless a parent enjoys the wealth to provide for the lifetime of assistance that their child will require, they are essentially stranding the cost of their child’s life upon others.

  • John Smith

    Well according to science life stats at conception. There is really no argument about that. The argument is does that life have any more value then a chicken. That is the real question. But as to when life starts that has been well established.

  • lark

    The Obama and the crowds in New Mexico.

    Obama: You have been hurt by the economic problems just as much as Wall Street.

    Crowds: Yeah, hurray. applause

    Obama: McCain says the fundamental of our economy are sound.

    Crowds: Boo Boo malo malo

    Obama: McCain is wrong that the fundamentals of our economy are sound.

    Crowds: Yeah, hurray, applause

    Unbelievable the stupidity.

  • JS Ruby

    With JM as President and a Democratic controlled Congress I really don’t see Roe being overturned. Just the replacement of a retiring Supreme would be difficult enough.

  • ritamary

    Thank you for elaborating all the steps required for Roe to be overturned. I do not believe that it will ever be overturned. The Republicans need the abortion issue to rally their base. If the Republicans really wanted to ban abortion, why didn’t they do it during the years while they controlled Congress and the presidency?

    Also thank you for pointing out that John McCain is NOT a neo-con. He is more a traditional conservative in the pattern of Barry Goldwater. I am a life-long Democrat and have never voted for a Republican in my life. I am forced to vote for McCain because my party chose to nominate an incredibly flawed, inexperienced and downright dishonest candidate.

  • McHope

    He won’t.

  • John Smith

    He could say that “We are all heading into the greatest depression we have ever seen” and the crowds would still clap.

  • JP49

    I like Senator McCain and I thank you for bringing this article to our attention. I don’t now have to worry about getting pregnant any longer. However, I understand younger women who worry about Roe v Wade. I do not believe that Senator McCain will make it a priority to overturn it. There are too many other things of importance for he and Gov. Palin to work on. The younger generation want Obama for what reason I do not understand. It could be that they have not informed themselves about Obama and just take him on face value. In any case, I do not believe Roe v Wade should make any difference in deciding who to vote for in this election. John McCain is a patriot and an American first and foremost. He will make sure this country is safe and stop the criminal behavior that permeates Washington and Wall Street. There are too many things about him to love than to worry whether Roe v Wade is in any danger. Let the young generation worry about it. They haven’t done anything but back Obama so far, a complete fraud.

  • kristenD

    Thank you for making this clear. I have been trying to explain this to my all of my “feminist” friends. So far 100% think that overturning Roe v. Wade would make abortion illegal. If this should happen, (which I believe it won’t especially if it didn’t happen in the Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 administrations), then pro-choice advocates will have to do their homework when electing state governments.

  • Sue

    This is the issue that democrats love to hang around women’s and other democrat’s necks. Roe v Wade is in the Constitution, it can’t be simply overturned. I’m pro choice also, and I’m not worried about it at all. McCain/Palin are a pro life ticket, but that doesn’t mean that they’re out to even begin to try to overturn Roe v Wade.

    I think Sarah Palin is a huge step forward for women, just as I thought Hillary was a huge step forward for women. They are both fantastic role models.

  • roseeriter

    I believe that most women Do not like or want abortions, but believe that it is A woman’s choice to make, especially if raped, regardless of the law. And I am glad that my daughter and I never were in the situation to have to make that most difficult choice. But I respect a woman’s right to choose.

    I do not give a shit how any man thinks about it!

  • John Smith

    Yea you are probably right although McCain should bring it up in the debate. He would have to say something at that point. Although it might not be more then “uh oh uh Hope and Change”

  • McHope

    Is it a lack of intelligence or an exaggerated level of insecurity that allows these people to see his rhetoric as profound?
    Where do they see any hope or solutions in that exchange?

  • Pink Panther

    The definition of feminist has changed. It initially meant that women had choices: the choice to stay home or go to work; the choice to have a disabled child; the choice to break the glass ceiling; etc. It also meant equality and not tolerating derogatory and sexist statements.

    The definition of being a feminist now, according to Obama’s Democratic Party, excludes those women who chose to have a disabled child; excludes women who decide to go to work rather than stay at home with their family; excludes women who fight to break the glass ceiling (i.e., Hillary becoming President); excludes women who say, “We will not tolerate being called derogatory and sexist names;” etc.

    Obama’s Democratic Party refuses to denounce misogynistic behavior and sexist behavior (which are actually endorsed by Obama and his minions)but continue to use Roe as a hook to get women to vote for the Democratic Party.

    It’s time to say,

    “No More! We will no longer be used by a political party that lacks respect for the female gender.”

  • JP49

    One last thing, there are many methods of birth control including the morning after pill which could stop a pregnancy before it begins which is better than having to have an abortion. In the old days it was only rubbers or cross your legs. Later, there were IUDs and birth control pills. For the most part I think women could protect themselves much better today from becoming pregnant in the first place.

  • Paul3triple

    yes how terrible of McCain to not support a law that has lead to children being aborted after being born and abortion becoming a BUSINESS.
    McCain just wants the states to decide.
    Which is the way our government was designed.
    I am pro-life and know alot of friends who have had multiple abortions. But just because i do not agree with them does not mean I could not vote for someone that does.
    It is ridiculous to not vote for someone over social issues.

    McCain is not a guy who pushes social issues. Never has been.

  • RJ

    Well I for one find it highly unlikely that Roe v. Wade will be overturned and if by some chance it is, right to life / right to choose would be decided by the states. I seriously doubt that we would go back to the days of back alley abortions and trying to scare people with this issue is VERY poor salesmanship.

    McCain/Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  • Lynn

    Just more food for thought, everyone was sure R v W was going to be overturned with GWB (which would have been much more likely as Reps controlled congress for the majority of his two terms). I honestly don’t think it will be overturned ever and if it is, very few states will outlaw it.

  • John Smith

    Well there is plenty of hope. They all hope that we loose the war and the economy goes belly up.

  • Sue

    The thing is McCain is right, the fundamentals of our economy are strong. The economy is struggling, but the fundamentals to bring it back are there.

    Anyway, I would much rather have a leader who believes in the strength of our country, than one who is constantly saying how terrible everything is.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t it FDR who said, “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” ?

  • Anon 1

    It’s not that John Mccain oppose Roe V Wade. Mccain is a federalist. Hence he believes that Roe V Wade should not be decided by a few people on the Supreme court. He believes Roe V Wade should be decided by various States where the people get a chance to vote for Roe v Wade.

    I am also pro choice and I think all ther Staes should be given a chance to vote on it. Nevertheless, Roe V Wade will never be overturn. The Dems are just susing this as a wedge issue. If the republicans wante dto overturn Roe V Wade, they would have done it when the congress was republican and a republican president was in power.

  • lark

    Are you kidding. Obama welcomes the issue. He now has more than 10 things he he he himself will do to restore confidence in the economy.

  • JoseyJ

    Obama: ‘Argue with neighbors, get in their face.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMDur9CDZ4

    Just what America needs – MORE thugs!
    And this is Obama, the candidate – God help us if he becomes president. He’s already proven he can’t handle power.
    I’ve voted for Black men – but not voting for THAT ONE!

  • John Smith

    Crammer on Mad Money said the same thing. That is why a bought a bunch of stocks yesterday.

  • lark

    Cafferty on Obama: This downturn of the economy is a god sent for any candidate. In other words, how lucky for Obama for the economy to go sour at this time.

  • Sue

    Has Obama put forth any solutions or is he going to be admit that he doesn’t know what to do..sort of like the Democrats in congress?

  • Paul3triple

    anon 1, exactly. He believes it is up to states to decide gay rights and gay marriage.
    Which he does not support.
    Honestly his position shows how open minded and fair he is. These issues should not mold our national politics. they are a matter of state. And mccain would not figh against any states, he just believes it is for the states to choose not the federal government.
    And guess what? He is right.

  • Felizarte

    I am not voting for McCain because I totally agree with him or absolutely like him. But at least I know where he stand. I’m voting for him because I like Obama even less. Because I don’t know where Obama stands on core democratic values. He has waffled on many issues, especially FISA, sexism, ageism.

  • athena

    Well you not voting for McCain – is unfortunately a vote FOR Obama.

    His belief of when life begins is his personal opinion. I am pro-choice and have made the choice both ways…. I also believe that life begins very early in the pregnancy. If you ever saw a sonogram, you might agree, maybe not. I am tired of social issues like these being the catalist motivators for voters. We need a strong leader – these are serious, crazy times! I feel for your situation being gay. But I believe he favors civil unions and rights for partners. Sarah seems to have an open tent for gays as well. Good luck with your choice… and vote.

  • db

    John Smith

    There is no scientist worth his salt that will say life starts at conception.

    No one can predict when the soul enters the fetus. In fact there are some religions that don’t believe the soul enters the body until birth–live birth to be exact.

    It’s all theory. We can argue this forever. What I won’t bother to waste anymore time on is that a woman owns her body. Not a man, not the government, no one.

    “Keep your laws off my body!”
    “If men got pregnant, abortion would be a holy sacrament!”

    But thanks John for not getting ugly. So often when people argue on this site it gets nasty.

  • McHope

    Well let’s just hope the moderators are legitimate jounalists or professionals with some integrity.
    Obama’s free pass on his complete lack of competence is long over used.
    It’s time he shows up, shows who he is and takes responsibility for himself without everyone protecting him.
    How on Earth do his followers feel that coddling and covering for him creates a readiness to lead the country in which they also live????

  • John Smith

    I am very glad that Palin is out there answering questions in town halls. Plus her interviews are very important as well. This should give her some practice for the debates.

  • lark

    He actually said that and yes, the crowd cheered. You have to see it to believe it.

  • ipotter

    Thanks for the video link. This guy will say anything. NOBAMA

  • csuzeq

    Was that speech today? Is there a link or video?

  • John Smith

    Well when you are high on the kool-aid everything sounds good.

  • ritamary

    Why would any PUMA person want to “lynch” Palin? I am a firm believer in the right to choose, and Palin chose to have her baby. Case closed.

    Palin appears to have a large and close-knit extended family. The other family members will take over the responsibility for the Down Syndrome child if the parents are no longer able to care for him.

  • Sue

    Yep and the market went up over 400 points today I think. At least that’s where it was the last time I checked around 3:30 this afternoon.

    We simply cannot panic and run around saying THE SKY IS FALLING!! Obama has no idea what to do or say, so he criticizes the Republicans. And all the while he’s had his hands deeply into Fannie and Freddie’s back pockets.

    His hypocrisy is astounding. I wish people would pay attention. It’s so frustrating!

  • db

    Thanks Athena,

    My point about life is when the soul enters the baby. As I posted above some religions don’t believe the soul enters the body until after the child is born.

    I respect McCain. I think BO is inept and an empty suit. I just wish the republicans would get rid of the far right. Now I wish the democrats would get rid of the far left.

    I miss Hillary.

  • Diana L. C.

    I am staunchly pro-choice, too. I am a stauch feminist also.

    However, I don’t now, nor have I ever liked the whole idea of abortion if it can at all costs be avoided. I don’t think it’s a mortal sin. But, one thing I have always believed in is personal responsibility. In too many cases, I have met young women who have had abortion because they were just not being careful. I would much prefer that we concentrate on pushing knowledge about, responsibility to use, and availability to acquire birth control.

    Nothing makes me sicker than young women using their right to choose that was so hard won in a way that they basically choose abortion AS birth control.

    I’m rambling, but my point is this: A person CAN be saddened by people choosing abortion at the drop of a hat and STILL BE PRO CHOICE. When a person says, sometimes, that they are against abortion, they are sincerely saying that they revere life.

  • McHope

    Yes, and chicken little said, “The sky is falling.”
    You can just picture old Barry running in circles without a clue.
    All gloom and doom for tha nation- that is exactly what he wants. He offers no willingness to fix it, only the willingness to blame McCain.
    If only people could stop being so short sighted…what the hell will he say when the buck stops at him? Uhhh, Hillary, Uhhh McCain, uhh that’s not the dictator I knew.
    Seriously though, does this provide a clearer view of his true intentions?
    Perhaps he has no regard for answering for the possible chaos in and destruction of this country because he is working toward that goal. If he succeeds, he is not likely to explain himself.

  • lark

    The Chinese did too.

  • McHope

    Don’t vote present, vote McCain.

  • richasis

    i bought more gold.

  • tampagurl

    OK, I’m pro choice also but I’m not worried about it being overturned. I believe both parties use it to hold onto their base. That being said I would not vote for Obama even if I was afraid of it being overturned.

    Obama’s strange ties with hate groups and criminals that have advanced him to were he is today, make me think he will have a lot of debt if he were to become president. George Soros, has his hands all over Obama, that frightens me. The dots that I cannot connect about Obama, frighten me. His time in Indonesia and trip to Pakistan and his mothers infatuation with foreigners concern me. I’m sorry but the fear of an Obama presidency trumps Roe v wade.

  • Fenelon spoke

    Bravo, Pink Pather; Well said!

  • babelfish

    I think you’re the one kidding yourself. The only idea Obamanation has probably thought of tt restore confidence in the economy is to put his face on the currency and change the motto to “In Obama We Trust.”

  • BJ

    Ok let me first state I’m not a legal expert. Let me 2nd state that I bet you aren’t either.

    This comment of yours:

    ” person can be pro-choice and not support the Roe v Wade decision. They are two separate, but admittedly linked, issues.”

    I believe to be basically incorrect.

    Hearing from real legal experts I believe them when they say that in actuality, Roe vs Wade is “settled law” and can’t be, won’t be, overturned.

    Aside from that- with McC as president and a Democratic Senate and Congressional majority, it is unlikely McC will get a damn thing accomplished in his 4 year term..

    and that’s pretty ok with me.

  • csuzeq

    I also do not think Row will be overturned. I believe that at least 70% of this country is pro choice to a degree and we just cannot start ordering people to continue a pregnancy. How would we enforce it? Then if people had to have illegal abortions, no one is going to go along with that either. Except for a few right wing extremists, most (millions) of the population believe in choice at least to some degree.

    The constitution makes us free in our pursuit of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and when you start restricting that in any way, we lose our democracy. I do not see that being allowed to happen. Too many people will fight for it! Look at how the action of people has changed this election by not going along!

    PUMA-people united means action and that is not just about election 2008!

  • csuzeq

    Not to mention when that is held over my head, I respond, well then, you better home your democrats in congress actually get to work if McCain is POTUS!

  • John Smith

    db,

    What do you think science says about a bacteria. It says that bacteria is alive. It is the value you place on life that really matters. Not the technical definition. Under the definition of life, life starts at conception.

  • ritamary

    In Obamaland Michelle is the only woman with children allowed to go to work outside the home. All others who dare to question the precepts of the Messiah shall be burned at the stake as witches at the MSNBC studios. Chris Matthews and Keith Obamaman are in charge of lighting the fires.

  • csuzeq

    Not to mention that in comparison with how many abortions are actually performed in the US each year, it is a small percent of the population really. We have much greater things to worry about here!

  • sayitisntso

    Abortion is a red herring designed to get your eyes of the fact that the Democrats will get us all killed and then abortion, the economy and healthcare won’t really matter, will it?

    WHO do you trust on national security??? The liar Nobama who tried to prolong the war in Iraq or Mr. Prisoner of War who will NEVER let America down!

    Has it occurred to anyone in the media that Sen. McCain wants to use the remaining years of his life in service to this country? How about Brazil, not really off topic here? The president of Brazil doesn’t even have a HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION!!!

    Come on, everyone get real. Appreciate what we have, get to work and don’t always have your hand out like Nobama wants.

  • csuzeq

    I hate work! Can I stay home? ;-)

    Bummer. I am a single mother, homeowner. I do not have a choice if I work or not!

  • MC1

    I am a woman, pro-choice, a Hillary Clinton supporter and now a McCain supporter. I do not believe that abortion will become illegal in the USA with a McCain/Palin Administration. I resent that Obama and the Democratic Party refused to denounce the sexism directed at Hillary Clinton and now are directing that sexism at Sarah Palin. I resent that Obama and the Democratic Party did not seek or earn the women vote but rather dismissed us and insulted us during the primaries and since Obama became the Democratic Candidate expected women to fall in line and to “just get over it”. The only explanation in my opinion for this treatment of women is that we have ovaries and they assumed that women because of the pro-choice issue would never vote for a Republican. And now, I am disgusted that Obama, the Democratic Party, and “Feminist” organizations are trying to scare women into voting for Obama by using the pro-choice issue, again not trying to win our vote or our respect. I am voting for McCain because he was my second choice after Hillary Clinton and I respect McCain as a leader who has the experience, has earned the right to be the President, has served our country and has the integrity and judgment to be the President. And I believe Obama is inexperienced, disingenuous, a liar, corrupt, has dangerous associations, bad judgment and can not be trusted with the most powerful position in the World, the Presidency of the USA. Finally, I think Obama represents such an enormous risk to our country that any risk that McCain/Palin will make abortion illegal (which I believe is small) becomes a non-issue in comparison to the risk that Obama represents.

  • babelfish

    For all the use of Roe and the Supreme Court to threaten and scare people into voting for Obama, I think it’s worth noting, that the ONLY current justices that were appointed by a Democrat are Ginsberg and Breyer, yet Roe has held up pretty well.

  • PhxNickD

    I can never get thru a whole video clip of this guy. No matter what comes out of his mouth I just do not believe a word of. And your right, just what we need, more thugs. It is thanks to him and his supporters that I now believe in the right of individuals to own guns.

  • richasis

    and that’s with TWO supreme court nominations

  • http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com InsightAnalytical-GRL

    Yes, this is just a wedge issue used by both parties…they don’t want to give it up, esp. the Republicans…

    Off topic, but I have this question… With the hype about Obama leading…..WHEN DOES THE HEAT GET TURNED UP so we can see him roast???

    For some reason, I’m very panicky about this now…I don’t want that crook in the White House and I think he’s planning to steal the election. My only consolation is that the Republicans play tough and the Supreme Court somehow gets involved again, although it claimed it was a one time thing in 2000…

    I can’t believe I just said that…but I am really sick of the thought of Obama “winning.”

  • http://www.theindependentview.com Matthew Weaver

    I am surprised that anyone is letting themselves get worked up over fear that a Republican president McCain with a likely Democratic Congress is going to end abortions. It’s a great fear strategy to get single-issue, easy to scare Dems to vote for Obama but seriously, does anyone think abortions will become illegal?!

  • http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com InsightAnalytical-GRL

    I meant –sick at the thought of Obama “winning” although I’m sick of the media enabling him as well…

  • ritamary

    McCain has a real history of working with Democrats. I think he could accomplish a lot, especially with a hard worker like Hillary as Senate Majority Leader. Obama has no legislative record of accomplishing anything.

  • sayitisntso

    But since you all insist on debating Roe v. Wade…have you read it? It’s actually very approachable and the justices struggled over it. It wasn’t designed to be set in stone, but, apparently, women don’t seem to raise themselves up (no criticism here) enough to have the economic security that would help prevent the necessity of making the decision to have an abortion at all.

    Abortion defenders say that it’s okay to take a potential life because the father may have hated the mother (rape). Anti-abortions say that that it’s a legal and spiritual issue. Abortion is wrong on both points. It doesn’t mean women will always be fortunate to be able to live up to that standard.

    What state in this country is going to get away with banning abortions? None, zero. Talk about race riots! They’re be total pandemonium. Not. going. to. happen.
    McCain/Palin 08

  • http://mccaindemocrats.wordpress.com/ 30yrdem-not any more

    Just heard they dis invited Palin to the UN thing….

  • Karma

    The battle for Roe vs Wade has been fought hard at the state level since the 80s.

    When the religious right protested, harrassed, stalked, fire-bombed, and murdered doctors and their staff. They ran many doctors out the profession or out of their states entirely.

    If Roe vs Wade ever gets overturned, the states that have already harrassed abortion clinics out of the area. Will just make it legal.

    On the pro-choice side of the coin. It is unrealistic to expect a state like Mississippi, which already has 99% of it’s counties without abortion services. To suddenly accept a federal law requiring choice. It will be fought at both the courthouse and the clinics.

    Like it or not. The issue has been resolved until the local populations decide otherwise.

    If I was pro-choice living in those areas wanting to help change the system. Helping young ladies make the long trip out of state for services might be a better use of time. Rather than swimming upstream against the population, use your energies to help those in need right now. A quiet revolution, helping one person at a time, might be more effective than fighting the religious right head on.

    Anyway, check out your state profile…and it’s overall grade.

    http://www.naral.org/choice-action-center/in_your_state/who-decides/state-profiles/mississippi.html

  • athy

    Texas Hill Country-

    Well said. Excellent article.

    People need to understand this about Sen McCain’s position.

    There are many people and organizations out there that do not want the voters to think too much about Sen McCain’s position because if they do, they will realize that they are being subjected to propaganda that is meant to hold them hostage to the Democratic party. You know the BS that Gloria Steinem and others have been spewing “A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade”.

    Shed light on Sen McCain’s position.

    SEn McCain has strong values and principles BUT this man is NOT an ideologue. he is conservative BUT he thinks about issues independently. McCain IS NOT A PUPPET OR A PAWN.

  • Willy Nilly

    I suggest that Palin attack NOW as the “Ladies Auxiliary of the Democrat Party”, given they have endorsed Obama. That would be a clear expose.

  • Pragmatist

    I.am.beginning.to.really.hate.barack.obama.he.must.lose.in.november.

  • http://mccaindemocrats.wordpress.com/ 30yrdem-not any more

    here is a link
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Palin_disinvited_from_Iran_rally.html

    The organizers of an anti-Iran rally Monday rescinded their invitation to Alaska Governor Sarah Palin after Democrats protested that her presence would turn the event into a political rally, McCain campaign and Jewish community sources said.

    The Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations created a political tempest by inviting Palin to speak without clearing her invitation with another speaker, Senator Hillary Clinton. Clinton promptly dropped out of the event, saying it would be seen as unduly political. The McCain campaign then pressed Senator Barack Obama to join Palin on the stage in a show of unity against Iran.

  • Bob

    Geez…I am gay, too, but if you look at John Mccain’s record he is only saying what he does about abortion because he HAS to right now for the base of the R party. Look at his record and you will see there is nothing to be afraid of. He and Palin have no intention of making this an issue during their tenure at the White House.

  • PhxNickD

    I honestly think the McCain/Palin ticket is an attempt to bring this country to the middle.

    I read an interesting article on Palin in USA Today several days ago — while she has personal convictions, she does not govern with them. She is a centrist/populist governor. When asked about some of the positions she has taken, especially ones that are different then her beliefs, she states that she understands democrats have points of views also and that she knows she has to work with them to get things done. In looking at what she has done (her actions, not just words!) I can beleive she really has this country and all thepeople in her best interest.

    db, you do realize she vetoed Republican legislation to over turn their State Supreme court decision to providing domestic partner benefits to unmarried couples. While it wasn’t solely about gay & lesbian rights, it was about everyone being treated fairly.

    Also, the religious right in Alaska is not to fond of her also because she has these strong anti-abortion convictions but never pushed any legislation prohibiting abortion.

  • Regret

    Several years ago, I found out I was pregnant. My partner at the time was a liberal who participated in all the progressive movements. He supported every “Save The. . .” movement that came along. He supported unions, he defended AA, hispanics, a woman’s right to choose, fought globalism, worked on environmental issues, etc. You get the picture. He is Obama’s biggest supporter now and hates Palin.

    When I told my partner I was pregnant, he blamed me for not using birth control properly. This liberal man demanded I use my “right to choose” and have an abortion. . . and pay for half of the cost of the abortion. This liberal man blamed me and said the timing to have the child was wrong because he was planning a 30-day backpacking trip overseas within six months and the pregnancy would get in the way of his plans.

    This liberal man told all his friends I was pregnant, no doubt, so they knew he could impregnate a woman. When this liberal man took me to the abortion clinic, he didn’t say a word.

    As I awoke from the procedure, I screamed, “I killed my baby!” The clinic staff asked me to be quite because I was upsetting the other women and lead me out the backdoor once I could get up.

    My liberal partner went on to help progressive causes and this is the memory I still have.

    I am still pro-choice but feel that some “liberal” men support abortion for their own needs rather than for the needs of women.

  • sayitisntso

    Insight, think of the Bradley Effect. Many voters aren’t telling the truth and the race is pretty much even right now.

    Nobama is a disgrace and McCain mentioned his terrorist friend, Ayers, in his criticism today. O. doesn’t want the support of Lindsay Lohan and her gay community. Think THAT is going to go unheard???? McCain wondered why he’d turn down Lindsay’s help, but take help from an unrepentant Pentagon bomber like William Ayers???
    McCain/Palin 08

  • lark

    Obama offers lots of solutions. It’s laughable. Tomorrow he will meet with his advisers to design a program to bring confidence to the economy. Three aspects. Blah blah blah. He will do it all. He’s the genious, the great one. People cheer and applauded. He said he will bring liquidity to the markets. Just that made me cringe. The man is a desperado pathological liar dressed as a politician and running for president of the country. This must be a movie or the matrix is for real.

  • http://mccaindemocrats.wordpress.com/ 30yrdem-not any more

    You all need to admit that these woman’s groups will never support Palin because she won’t support the right to abortions…they like Obama because of his votes.

  • Denise

    I am so tired of hearing in the news that Obama is being discriminated against due to his race.
    Isn’t Obama the one that is discriminating against McCain’s age by saying he’s too old?

    Last time I checked you can’t discriminated against race, sex or age etc….
    Obama is discriminating against McCain and I hope that every older person gets out there and votes against Obama and his age discrimination.

  • athy

    Josey-
    Thanks for your link.
    I agree.

    Read where this ideology that Sen Obama is spewing originated from.

    http://www.windycitizen.com/2008/07/ask-a-community-organizer-what-is-community-organizing-anyway

    http://infed.org/thinkers/alinsky.htm

    I recommend that you read the articles in the order that I have posted-Info is from various sources and each article provides good background to help reader understand next article that follows in above sequence.

    Also, read the bloggers’ comments on the thread attached to WindyCitizen blog. Read my comments (athy) posted on that thread too.

  • sayitisntso

    Regarding the UN, Mr. Mydinnerjacket (I can’t say or pronounce his name…heh) should come and go from here in a cage like Hannibal Lector. Let the stupid UN take all the responsibility and keep the candidate, Sarah Palin, detached from him until McCain/Palin win. Europe and the Middle Eastern countries are trying to influence our election. If Europe is so interested, why don’t THEY help us with terrorism in the Mideast??? Nooooo, all they want is their free medical!
    Duh.
    McCain/Palin 08

  • SFhillary

    What does that mean exactly? Because Obama has supporters, like me, you feel the need to own a gun? Could you explain that statement?

  • PhxNickD

    This did not come from a PUMA. This is exactly the hateful crap the obama supporters are spewing. They started with Hillary and moved to Palin. Look for the wolf in the sheeps clothing and you will find your culprit.

  • Judy L. NC

    I’m a pro choice baby boomer (Hillary’s age) and would like to reiterate that NOBODY is pro-abortion. I agree with HRC that they should be “rare”. At this point in my life I am able to see that this issue has been used and abused by both parties and I’m mad as hell and not gonna take it any more. For many elections it was a major factor in my votes. But no more.

    I came of age when abortions were illegal in my state. Back in high school we whispered we’d have to cross the state line to get an abortion if we needed one. I’m also old enough to literally have been chased around a desk by a lecherous old “superior” male, just like in old cartoons and comics. So womens rights means job equality to me as well.

    Geez, I can’t stop. I even WELCOMED Martha Stewart’s conviction, not for catty reasons, but because she was big enough to have earned the right to screw up on such a spectacular level.

    NARAL and NOW have done absolutely nothing useful for anyone but perpetuating jobs for themselves thru fear and manipulation.

    The major reason I’m switching to candidate Y – McCain/Palin is that I feel that it is a way to keep Hillary’s momentum going to crash through the ceiling at long last. Do you realize that freakin’ Afghanistan has more women in their legislature than the United States? Women there comprise a full 50%!

    I wish Hillary could have “taken it home” this election, but, frankly, we don’t know if she’ll even be alive in 4 years to crash through herself. I don’t know if I’ll be alive to help her….and I would consider it a legacy to my nieces that I helped elect a woman at the very top level. That’s why it’s now or never for me.

  • sayitisntso

    30year, Sarah Palin cannot prevent a woman from having an abortion! Are u nuts?

  • typewriterstreaming

    Thank you for this excellent and informative post. I agree with your well reasoned arguments. I am also Pro Choice and I will be voting for McCain Palin. I am so afraid of an Obama presidency I will vote straight Republican this year (there are also some Dems on my list that bashed Hillary and will never get my vote again). IMHO some things are of greater import than Roe this election. I am sick of the Democratic Party threatening me with Roe. Right now the idea of Obama taking the White House is frightening beyond having Roe at risk. We hear this shit every election cycle. Do you realize the Dems have given us 2 Presidents in 40 years and they still idiotically rattle this sabre? We and Roe have survived thus far under Republican rule. Clearly, the Democratic Party, as stated by Donna Brazile, doesn’t need Hillary’s women and they continue to demonstrate they never understood women by relating to us primarily by issuing the threat that Roe will be overturned. News Flash to Dems: Grow up and find a candidate capable of running the country and maybe, maybe one day you might get my vote back.

  • benny

    Think barry is being discriminated against because of his brace. Poor barry, no wonder he goes uh…..hmmmmm……eh…….

  • Leisa

    Down Syndrome children often have other health problems and often do not outlive their parents.

    Nicholas Provenzo is very ignorant and intolarant.

  • McHope

    Great post. :)

  • HC

    As a I am a pro-choice/pro gay marriage person,
    I was more interested to hear that McCain wont try to legistlate from the executive, and that he is against activist judges.

    If we can take these statements at face value, his personal beliefs don’t really matter to me.

    I am not completely happy with Obama’s stance on gay marriage and I think I am currently confused on his position on abortion (pay grade, etc).

    On the margin, I will take McCain as long as he and I can agree to disagree about Roe. And I think we can based on what he says.

  • PhxNickD

    Unfortunately real change for women in this country will never come until there is a women in the white house.

  • lizpolaris

    Wow – it’s like Obama has never really studied history. He doesn’t understand the difference between discussion and argument.

    He doesn’t seem to understand that when he’s got a fanatical following and he ENCOURAGES them to engage in intimidating behavior – that’s leadership in the WRONG DIRECTION. That’s incitement to violence. Bozo.

    I guess Obama’s Princeton education is no better than what Bush learned at Harvard – not enough.

    Obambi doesn’t know that his followers have issued death threats to pundits who write critical columns about him? Is he really clueless or just amoral?

  • SFhillary

    I’d just like to say that it’s nice to see people on NQ actually discussing a relevant issues rationally. I certainly agree; whatever you think of Obama, I can’t imagine anyone who is genuinely pro-choice casting a vote for John McCain and Sarah Palin. Stevens is 88 years old. McCain would with absolutely certainty only nominate pro-life Justices to replace him. Roe would almost surely be doomed, which means any conservative evangelical-influenced state legislature would be free to outlaw abortion. There really isn’t much more to say about this issue than that.

  • benny

    you’re right, Leisa.

  • thenana2

    Obama has to convince the masses that things are bad, and that it is the Republicans fault, that way he can convince these people to vote for him, so he can save us all.

  • Cahil

    Howdy Texas,

    Enjoyed your post very much. I think you’re absolutely right on the state of the women’s movement. If all it is is Roe, then women are in for a long haul. As a man, and an early supporter of NOW, I have long advocated for women to take their power.

    Unfortunately, my wife was right when she said that Hillary’s undoing would come from women. It’s been women like M. Dowd and A. Huffington that lead the bashing of Hillary. Until women are willing to believe in their own power, nothing will change for them.

    Too many women are waiting to be told who to vote for, how to vote, and the younger ones don’t even know the history of the women’s movement or why they should care.

    If the women of this country had come out in force for the smartest person running for president, Hillary would be set for the White House. She has paved the road for Sarah Palin and hopefully, Ms. Palin won’t drop the ball.

    When I listen to arguments against Ms. Palin and they are,”She can’t manage her own kids, how can she run the country?”, it makes me want to puke. Nobody says about Obumble,”He raised his kids in a church that taught them welcome to the KKK of America and God damn America with a wife whose never been proud of the country, so how can he make positive choices for the country?”

    As for Roe, it will only be overturned if women stay silent and stupid. There are too many of us men who understand that we are not the arbiters of women’s bodies and have no right to tell them what they should do. We should be there to help make the best decision.

    Besides, all of this would be moot if we bothered to stop being so puritanical and teach sex education.

  • sayitisntso

    Judy, I tend to have agreed with you on the scarcity of women in politics here. The media has had alot to do with it as the book, “Women For President” by Erica Falk, explains so well.

    However, it’s more than just that countries like India and Pakistan have had women leaders and we haven’t had so many. In fringe-like democracies like the above mentioned, the women are in power only because they come from a political family, born into the opportunity, a dynasty.

    How remarkable that Sarah Palin (& John McCain also, for that matter) share so much of their social and economic beginnings with us. I was a soccer mom. My husband was is a veteran. McCain/Palin is a far cry from entitled political aristocracies such as the Bhuttos, just to mention one.

  • hootnannie

    I wish abortion could simply be decriminalized. For thousands of years, women tended to such matters until men got involved and criminalized the procedure. Before Roe, some states had legal abortion and some didn’t. I personally don’t think viable fetuses/infants should be aborted, killed in the birth canal, or left to die after birth. Both the right and left have used abortion as a wedge issue for decades, resulting in many one-issue voters. And a lot of people believe that overturning Roe will outlaw all abortion! The Repubs have gotten a lot more traction out of this because there are so many more cultural conservatives than liberals. And as for Bobo, who the hell knows how he truly stands on anything!?!

  • JM08

    So how many days in a row does mccain have to drop in the polls, before people on this site start to think it is time for mccain to personally attck in obama on character issues, much the same way obama is currently attacking mccain …

  • McHope

    Completely. Unbelievable.

  • No way No Mccain

    So you agree that the economy is strong?
    What is your point? That Americans agree we are headed (or in) a depression?
    Which I remind you started with a rebup president.

  • RottenFishArePeopleToo

    Can you imagine how American men would react if they had to support every baby they fathered?

    Can you further imagine the big pharmaceutical companies’ reactions if birth control pills were suddenly made illegal because they are an “aborficent”?

    Please.

    Any political party that enabled/implemented the rightwing whackaloons enforced pregnancy agenda would quickly become defunct.

    Abortion and birth control are wedge issues used by both sides.

    I am sick and tired of being jerked around by my womb.

  • Ouch

    think what obama-nut’s think of this situation.

  • No way No Mccain

    The next President will have 3 seats open on the supreme court in the next 4 years.
    If you don’t believe the GOP will do everything in their power to overturn roe v wade, you are deluding yourself.
    That is number one on their list. Take a look at the states who are ready to make abortions illegal. Do your homework people.

  • http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/roe-v-mccain/ Roe v McCain « Texas Hill Country

    [...] Comments Amy on Obama’s Aunt Fannie…Roe v McCain : NO QUARTER on Roe v McCainTexas Hill Country on Alma Sanford – Female Rights Activist, Prominent Democrat [...]

  • athena

    I would think to have them both there would be less “poitical”. Haveing only one party rep there would make it seem partisan.

  • JM08

    There are plenty of issues you can hit obama over the head with, rezko ayers rev wright etc. but instead all we see and hear is mccain getting hit over the head on his weakest issues.

    The explanation is that obama is willing to bring up mccains percieved weak points, but mccain feels like returning the favor would be “dishonorable”

    Mccain would rather lose a election, than lose his definition of honor …

    Obama on the other hand would throw his grandmother under the bus if thats what it takes to win the election..

    So in the final analysis mccain will win mrs congeniality, but obama will get the crown …

    no i am not a troll, and yes i am voting for mccain, but obama just wants to win more, and obama is willing to do what it takes to win, and the same cant be said about mccain

  • Paul3triple

    JM08 how many times are you going to state things that are detached from reality?
    McCain did go after obama today.
    And i guess this is the las time i will answer you becuase polls are not what run a campaign. or even represent what they are supposed to.
    Like i said to someone else,
    A poll of 1000 poeple nationally would mean 20 people per state were polled.
    If you believe that represents the country you have problems that are beyond my reach.
    John Kerry was ahead in the polls and the map for most of the election. what happened? OH shit the polls were wrong. Man how could that be when so many believe them to be the savior of political campaigns?

  • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com vbonnaire

    Hi all. This is the biggest worry for the Feminist set. I personally am both pro-choice and pro-life as a Dem going to McCain this year. He has to walk a tricky line on this issue — but, I feel his maverick spirit will do the right thing. I wrote a piece today about abortion. It is one of the unspoken wounds our generation carries.

    Feminists have seen the misogyny of their old party.

    I like McCain because, I like what he represents as an American and as a man.

  • benny

    poor obot forgot the medication. teehee. :-) grow up, your candidate is a disaster. RvW ain’t going nowhere. and you’re trying to use it as a wedge issue. sad for you……

  • sayitisntso

    It’s hard to be an American and to take so much responsibility for the rest of the world. It must have felt the same way to citizens of Great Britain before 1776.

    GB made alot of mistakes all over Asia and Africa. We have made mistakes in Iraq, but let’s not let Nobama have any access to the process. None. Democrats have a very bad record with foreign affairs. If anything else like 9/11 happens, abortion won’t matter one bit will it?

    I think it’s very astute of you and thank you for that, to see the relationship between women leaving the Democratic party and their position on abortion. Hillary is right. Available and hopefully rare. You won’t see NOW or Donna Brazille saying that!

  • Kim

    I am one that believes life begins at conception, but the issue of Roe v Wade has been a war waged for longer than I can remember and should McCain be our next President and I do hope so…I can’t see that issue being overturned even in my lifetime. And as stated above if and I stress the if, it would become a State by State issue and very few would inact restrictions. If you did not know his wife Cindi is Pro-Choice…and I am a evangelical christian, and one of those people that believe in, “judge not least ye be judged” your decisions in life can only be made by you and what is in your heart. God bless you in what ever decision you make.

  • Kal

    Texas — great analysis, you are so right!

    From a legal perspective, the fact that RvW is grounded in due process/privacy rights does not really make it shaky as precedent. RvW is now sandwiched into a long line of interlocking cases that all build on the premise that there are core privacy and personal interests and choices that are just not the government’s concern. Taking RvW down would tear a large hole in this jurisprudential web, and make a mess of a number of other bits of constitutional doctrine that is grounded in privacy concerns. I could see Cass Sunstein wanting to perform this kind of jurisprudential surgery, but not most members of the current court.

    So I agree that RvW is not going to disappear soon. It is more likely that there may be some further finetuning on related issues, combined with state access problems. But I am not frightened by this threat, and I am disappointed in feminist use of it.

  • athy

    db,
    I hear what you are saying-however please read this article (above this thread) posted by Texas Hill Country. There is a lot of propaganda and misinformation being thrown at the voters. Voters need to learn what the real issues are.

    db- You raise valid point:

    “If McCain believes in separation of church and state, he should believe in the privacy of a woman’s right to choose.
    He believes life starts at inception. How the heck does he know when life starts?”

    McCain believes in what he believes in PERSONALLY and will defend his right to protect his personal beliefs so he can live his life according to his values.

    He has NEVER EVER stated/implied that he will impose his values on the citizens of the USA (including elimination of a woman’s right to choose)

    Many neocon conservatives (as well as others) STRONGLY disagree with Sen McCain’s position on this issue.

    His goal as POTUS will be to protect the Constitution(mostly from internal threats) and protect the USA (internal and external threats).

    He understands that we are a REPUBLIC-we are made up of a group of states that have been given certain rights to decide for ourselves how to run our state. There are certain laws as per the Constitution that every state in the Union must abide by-yes-however…

    The states do have the power-as granted by the Constitution to decide on certain matters on their own-. That is why we are called a democratic Republic.

    Based upon his past voting record and his record of confronting powerful members of his own party – based upon this track record- I trust Sen McCain NOT to negotiate away our rights as a nation or our rights as citizens-as Sen Obama has done.

    Can we say the same for Sen Obama? N O.
    Don’t forget Sen Obama’s votes on FISA (telecom immunity) and BAIPA (the act dealing with infants born alive).

    PS I was a life-long democrat until I saw what was done by my ex party in the primary, and I AM A STRONG PRO CHOICE advocate.

  • benny

    very convenient. hold RvW over our heads. Use fear as a weapon. now who does this remind me of? Oh, bush ofcourse. Obama=Bush3

  • JM08

    ALL polls in the history of elections have only sampled a few thousand people at most, and the VAST majority of times the polls are right …So they must have figured out a pretty good system.

    Its just like when they declare a winner in a election when only 2 % of the vote has been reported. These statician guys have their ways …

    Now paul3triple, if you want to ignore the fact mccain has dropped like 6 days in a row in gallup tracking poll, and pretend that everything is ok, than thats your choice, but personally i look at things realistically.

    paul3triple i bet you were one of the guys saying how smart kerry was in ignoring the swiftboaters in 2004.

    I bet you were also bravely predicting mondale and dukakis wins because of your lack of faith in polls

    bottom line is when you see a overwhelming trend in all the polls, than you know something is happening

  • No way No Mccain

    Until it happens to you and you no longer have a choice. Then you will care. “We have greater things to worry about here”. What like lipstick on a pig and emails? Yes, those are very important issues for the american people. I am pro choice and no politician is going to tell me what choices to make about my body. McCain from his own mouth said he wants to overturn roe v wade. What makes you think he won’t do it? Oh yeah, the hope you all are so fond of criticizing.

  • sayitisntso

    JM08, Nobama will lose because he’s so angry. McCain has to pick his battles and he has. Temper tantrums still turn voters off. I think Nobama is mentally ill. You want Sen. McCain to play that game?? He’s doing fine. Wait until the debate next week.

  • RottenFishArePeopleToo

    I think people also forget that Casey v Planned Parenthood (which was decided in the 1990s) also affirms the constitutional right to have an abortion.

    R v W is settled law.

  • yttik

    I am pro-choice and I am supporting McCain/Palin.

    Palin and McCain actually, at totally differant times and remarking on totally differant isses, both said, “I believe the people must decide how they want the laws to reflect their values”.

    Absolutely! The supreme court doesn’t bless us with our rights, politicians don’t grant us our liberties, we the people do by what we demand. And congress writes the laws.

    Roe is not going to be overturned. If it was both parties would lose their ability to bash us over the head with it in the hopes of manipulating our votes.

  • Leisa

    Texas Hill Country,

    Here’s a shout out from North TX! I apprecaite how clearly you reported John McCain’s postion on this issue.

    Sandra Day O’Connor was appointed by Ronald Reagan. She is a conservative woman and she did not legislate from the bench.

    I know John McCain’s positions and I do not think that he is running for president so he can overturn Roe V Wade.

    Our country is facing tumultuous times. Iran has been supplying weapons to the Taliban, Russia and China are growing their economies and are looking for more oil, we have unstable neighbors to the south and in South America. Our economy has been destroyed by greedy corporations and individuals. The list goes on.

    A politician with a brand name of R or D will not fix this mess just because of his brand. We need leadership that genuinely cares about our country and all Americans.

    I do not have faith in Obama to take care of me or my neighbors. He has shown me that he holds grudges and is petty by passing up Hillary Clinton for VP (and snubbing her supporters). If the man can not be professional and rise up to do the right thing for his campaign, he can not rise up as a professional to do the right things for our country. (This is only ONE reason why Obama does not have my vote).

  • lark

    Me. The economy is in terrible shape. But like Gov. Palin I think that it is the interventions of the Fed and the directives of the Treasury that have confused the whole economic system into a very difficult conundrum to sort out. But the gov. has intervened now so much, not just in the past week but way way back that now they are obliged to continue to intervene.

    And now Obama thinks that he can take complete control of the regulatory agencies, design solutions, and direct the economy in the direction he chooses. In Obama’s mind, the bureaucrats can save America.

  • athena

    Actually – Dubyah was Yale and Barky was Harvard

  • Arabella Trefoil

    Sigh. I don’t know how you do it PaulTriple.

    JM08 is as tendentious as my autistic brother.

  • No way No Mccain

    We all have a choice to make and have to deal with the consequences. 18 years ago I had abortion for my own reasons. To say all men who are “liberal” would behave as yours did, is not true. It sounds like he was just an ass.

  • StrawberrybitesBarky

    Yup.

  • Paul3triple

    yes an overwhelming trend is a 2 week reign ahead in the polls. Not a day taking over.
    I didn’t vote in 04. I did not like either candidate. So i do not care what kerry did about the swiftboaters.
    And responding and attacking are 2 very different things.
    And JM 08 the polls this election on obama have been consistently wrong. But you obviously have not listened to anything i posted.

    Have you volunteered? called? Knocked on doors?
    If not then maybe you shoulld go help instead of complaing about polls. Polls rule your life, sna out of it.

  • RottenFishArePeopleToo

    Planned Parenthood v Casey

    Thornburgh v. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

    City of Akron v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health

    All Supreme Court cases that affirmed Roe. Roe v Wade is settled law.

  • sayitisntso

    OT:
    McCain used the speech to attack his Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, saying he hasn’t taken a firm position on the takeover of AIG and that he and congressional Democrats haven’t got a plan to prevent a future crisis.

    This above just in. Economic answers from McCain. Raising taxes from Nobama. Furthermore, he would have fired Cox, head of the SEC.

    That should get a bump or two for McCain/Palin!

  • benny

    I really dont look at Obama as a democrat. His followers in the Democratic party are basically Obamacrats. The party has to be purged from this crazy behaviour. Obama’s behaviour is more like the neo-cons.

  • Julia

    I’m totally against Obama I hate him but with this issue, sorry but McCain is lost.If he’s against Roe v Wade I’m really sorry but then I think he deserves to lose

  • http://www.patriotroom.com Bill Dupray

    Hockey Mom Breaks Biden’s Nose

    Patriotic to pay higher taxes huh?

    Video.

    http://patriotroom.com/?p=2167

  • RottenFishArePeopleToo

    I don’t think they will become illegal.

  • sayitisntso

    Today’s McCain comments on the financial crisis…
    http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/mccain_id_fire_chris_cox.html

  • JM08

    IF YOU PEOPLE THINK MCCAIN IS GOING TO WIN THIS ELECTION BY ATTACKING OBAMA ON THE ECONOMY THEN YOU ARE LOST.

    McCAIN IS NEVER GOING TO COME OUT AHEAD ON THIS ISSUE. Most people blame the president who is republican, and by association they will blame the republican candidate.

    McCain will win this election by attacking obamas patriotism.

    THATS REALITY

  • dixie

    This may be the one point in which science and religion agree, even if the general population doesn’t.

    Medical science says there is no infusion of blood in a fetus for the first three weeks.

    Leviticus 17:11 “for the life of the flesh is in the blood; ———.”

    Meaning a fetus has no life for the first 3 weeks of it’s existance. In fact according to the christian bible this is in fact one of the few times that religion and science seem to agree. But as I said–even if general population doesn’t [agree].

  • athy

    benny-
    wow-

    Wow…based upon his BAIPA ruling I might infer that Sen Obama would probably agree with Nicholas Provenzo.

    benny-please post internet link to the information you pasted above.

    Let’s review Sen Obama’s position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act-

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/18/finally-personal-vindication-but-a-major-new-problem-for-the-democratic-party/#more-4246

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTBkYTYzZDNjNDgyMWJmMzMxYzljYjYxNmEwMTdhYWE

    Life Lies by David Freddoso . National Review online (NRO) 8/17/08

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMwDq73gbm4

    For the record, I am pro choice . Sen Obama’s position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act was/is reprehensible. Watch this clip and read the Freddoso interview to learn why I state this.

    What is next for Sen Obama and Mr Provenzo? Eugenics?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

    Excerpt from wikipedia.org

    “Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through various forms of intervention.[2] Throughout history, eugenics has been regarded by its various advocates as a social responsibility, an altruistic stance of a society, meant to create healthier, stronger and/or more intelligent people, to save resources, and lessen human suffering.”

  • Ted Kennedy’s Swim Coach

    Nobody cares about polls except for Dems. Remember Kerry popping the champagne corks in 2004?
    McCain doesn’t need to attack Obie, evrytime Obie opens his mouth it’s another vote for McCain.
    Ever heard of the Bradley effect?

  • Paul3triple

    JM08 the polls you find so precious have had the 2 even on the economy.
    Also, the idea the media keeps pushing that it the econ is a better issue for obama because he is a dem is retarded. He has absolutely no experience with the economy.
    Poeple will vote for who they trust. That, according your precious polls has consistently been McCain by a huge margin.

  • Patti

    I am pro choice, whatever choice you make. I dont really see it going anywhere. The parties like to keep the base in line. But I also live in NY. Its been legal here since 1970. And its pretty much an on demand type of state. With very few restrictions.

    I am voting for John McCain, I dont have a problem with voting for him. I would have liked to vote for Hillary Clinton, but no they give us Obama. He just doesnt have a plan as far as I can tell. Guessing and on the job training are not plans.

  • Coalition of the Unwilling

    Hello Texas Hill Country from Texas Big Country

    I concur with your analysis. Roe v. Wade is Stare Decisis.

    See also Lady Rothschild’s Lawyerly opinion:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/17/lynn-forester-de-rothschild-on-tv-today/

    Regards

    A Member of the Coalition of the Unwilling

  • eurogirl70

    Bush was Yale as an undergraduate. However, the idiot also holds an MBA from Harvard as well.

  • sowsear

    This was not a PUMA opinion, nor was it cited as a positive appreciation for what the man said. I, myself, commented on that post,responding to another anti-Palin (Obamabot) comment that having Trig meant that the government would end up supporting a useless piece of humanity. I said Hitler had that same idea about eliminating the handicapped from society, and all of the PUMA comments were of that variety.

  • guido in florida

    When I first heard of the Wall Street crisis I immediately wondered where Mr. and Mrs. Fowlers were.
    I pictured them patting each other on the back saying
    “this diversion is truly another gift from God!

  • No way No Mccain

    It amazes me that you are so confused in your thinking. I am a woman and will not allow another to tell me how to think. The fact that most people on this website call Obama all kinds of names is the same thing you accuse him of doing towards woman. I see a double standard.
    Hillary should have stood up for herself if she felt she was being called names. She did not. I supported her but have lost some respect for her. But after all she is a politician and wants to get re-elected.

  • Kelvin Hearts PUMAs

    Not so much. McOld is struggling with the economic issue. Palin is now talking and acting like she’s at the top of the ticket instead of the bottom. McDepends has chronic foot in mouth disease. Even his party is struggling with this issue. His surrogates are off message. It’s not been a good week for the geezer and the beauty queen.

  • babelfish

    And let us not forget, that:
    A. There already is a majority on the Supreme Court that could potentially overturn Roe if they wanted to and the right case appeared.
    B. Even if Obama won (shudder), the most likely justive to retire in his term would likely be Stevens, and replacing him with a liberal wouldn’t change the balance.
    C. If, in the minuscule chance Roe were overturned, the decision goes to the states. And even in South Dakota, a state that hasn’t gone blue since the Johnson/Goldwater election in ’64, the voters themselves rejected a ban on abortion, just 2 years ago.

  • Rob in Chicago

    And to reiterate the one sensible comment made by Joy Behar on the View, the more moderates show support for McCain, the less he will owe or have to pander to the far right fundamentalist portions of his party.

  • Hispana

    OT Dem Rep son contacted @ email hacking

    http://rightvoices.com/2008/09/18/son-of-tennessee-democratic-state-representative-mike-kernell-hacked-into-palins-e-mail/ but he outs rubico10 in post #873).

    rubico10

    David Kernell
    rubico10@yahoo.com
    20
    Memphis, TN
    amateur chess player
    son of democratic state 93rd district senator Mike Kernell (Tennessee)

    The password he chose for Palin’s email was popcorn. Get it? Popcorn? Kernell? How very clever of him.

    And apparently, someone’s even updated his Wiki page with this info! (It’s been deleted but is still viewable in the history tab).

  • StrawberrybitesBarky

    I won’t go THAT far but I’m no longer as anti-gun as I used to be. The thought of Barky in the White House without having access to guns with creeps like the Obamabits in positions of power…yikes.

  • JM08

    paul3triple -

    cnn and quinnapac and gallup tracking all have obama ahead by 4.

    you think its just a coincidence that obama went from 2-4 down to 4 up, at right about the same time the economy stuff came up ?

    the bottom line is the media will continue to hammer this economy story 24/7 …. and they will frame it in a way that favors obama …

    the people that are undecided or “soft” supporters of whatever candidate are low information voters …

    They dont understand the nuances.

    They understand bush republican- bush to blame-mccain republican

  • No way No Mccain

    They can’t get it overturned in the congress. When the supreme court is made up of activist judges under McCains nominees, then it will be overturned.
    Let’s hope the dems stop this from happening and don’t approve what are sure to be judges who want to further widdle away at our constitution,

  • Hispana
  • sayitisntso

    Julia, turn off your TV! Then, read my comments above. You come in here and haven’t even paid attention!

  • http://redhotandbluepolitics.com/ grlpatriot

    Excellent post, Texas Hill Country. I appreciate your objectivity here on Roe and providing the facts on McCain’s position. I’m a pro-choice lesbian and am not comfortable with McCain/Palin on this issue. However, I absolutely agree with what you say here:

    But here is my question to you… Is the women’s movement so atrophied that the terms Roe v Wade and Women’s Movement are now interchangable?

    What about the right for women to aspire to the top positions in the country and not get called silly, dumb, a bitch or a bad parent? What about equality of women in the workplace and in the home? What about respect for women as people in the media, in the home and in the workplace?

    If the women’s movement is more than just Roe v Wade and is more about gender equality and respect, then please explain to me how it is that Sarah Palin is not a giant step forward for women?

    If women cannot get out of the shackles of Roe v Wade, then all the struggle and work for equality will have been in vain.

  • No way No Mccain

    No it is not settled. Any attorney with standing can bring the case back up and argue it. There are judges who believe that Roe v Wade was a bad decision.

  • ugo

    They are lots of people that understood the economy, who knew very well that the economic problem started from President Clinton adiminstration. But on the surface, it is easy to blame the other party or the party in power. The media is not helping. This problem is a creation of the President Clintons adiminisration. Who then wants to please the African Americans and unqualified wanna be home owner, given then a loan that they cannot afford.

    If you really want the truth, please look into it.

    The truth will free you. If you care about your country, seek the truth.

    WORDS are not egnouh, more so when those words bear no truth.

  • Ted Kennedy’s Swim Coach

    Paul, another indicator of McCain’s victory in November is the presence of the Obots feigning concern over McCain’s campaign.
    It’s hilarious to read their “suggestions”.
    I guess its those kind of tips that elected Kerry, Dukakis, etc…LOL…

  • sayitisntso

    grlpatriot, could you expand on the “get out of the shackles” metaphor? I take it you mean the way the DNC jerks women around over the subject?

  • No way No Mccain

    “Democrats will get us all killed”?

    Oh man have you drunk the McCain koolaid.

    People have their hands out? Yeah, the McCains and Palins of the world are sticking it to us every chance they get.
    The only hands the GOP fills up are the rich corporations. They could give a rats ass about the rest of us.

    Being a prisoner of war does not qualify a person to be president. Neither does being a soccer mom or a member of the PTA. If that were the case any number of ignorant fools on this website could be President. Thank God for the electoral college.

  • Patti

    I dont know too much about polls. They talk of potential voters, vs registered voters. About democrats, republicans, uncommitted, and independents.

    The fact remains, The only poll that really counts is when you go to the polls and vote.

  • Rob in Chicago

    Yes, in this election, it is John McCain who plays the Andrew Shepard (Michael Douglas) role, and Barack Obama is Bob Rumson (Richard Dreyfus).

  • No way No Mccain

    Economic security has nothing to do with an accidental pregnancy. It happens all the time. That is why it is called an accident. Woman raise themselves up given the opportunity to do so. Too bad there are a lot of woman who would rather play a victim of sexism than to stand up for themselves.

  • Arabella Trefoil

    JM08, you sound like a troll:

    They understand bush republican- bush to blame-mccain republican

    You are iterating Obama talking points. (McCain = Bush)

    You are implying that voters are stupid. (cf Obama saying that voters “decent” people.)

    PaulTriple has spent enough time trying to help you understand how polling works. He has given his interpretation of McCain’s strategy.

    You have amused us long enough, to quote Jane Austen.

  • ginamc

    With a 2/3 Majority in the House and Senate, JMc won’t go that far. If the Dems win the majority in the Legislative Branch, the Executive will be seriously impaired. BO is corrupt. Threats about Roe v. Wade are exaggerated.

  • sayitisntso

    Agree, Patti.

    Also, I have yet to meet very many people over 30 who think Nobama will win and I’m in CA.

  • Arabella Trefoil

    Truer words were never spoken.

  • athy

    SFHillary…please read the article before posting on the thread.

    You have to start thinking ‘outside of the box” hhmmmokay?

    Stop engaging in political attacks against Sen McCain be repeating false information.
    Thanks

    BTW-are you aware of Sen Obama’s position on BAIPA?

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/18/finally-personal-vindication-but-a-major-new-problem-for-the-democratic-party/#more-4246

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTBkYTYzZDNjNDgyMWJmMzMxYzljYjYxNmEwMTdhYWE

    Life Lies by David Freddoso . National Review online (NRO) 8/17/08

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMwDq73gbm4

    Gianna Jesson story.

    For the record, I am pro choice. Sen Obama’s position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act was/is reprehensible. Watch this clip and read the Freddoso interview to learn why I state this.

  • No way No Mccain

    That’s the problem on this website. Pure hatred. Forget important issues and hope McCain will live long enough. You people are seriously obsessed with Obama. It is comical. You would think the man was a product of Area 51. He is just a man, a human being. Get over yourselves.

  • cat

    a thought-provoking and well done post.

    Fighting for reproductive privacy and choice has been an absolute bitch, and the fighting has been ongoing for years.
    But I’ll do it some more if necessary.

    Although I feel strongly that this is an issue the government needs to leave alone and I don’t like hearing John McCain talk about being a *pro-life president*, the idea of a McCain presidency doesn’t frighten me the way an Obama presidency does.

    I’m just not convinced Obama cares about this, or any other issue and frankly, I don’t trust him.
    He’s done complete turnarounds on public financing, FISA, etc.-why not this?
    The democratic platform and agenda has changed and there seems to be a blurring church and state. Who knows how much longer the dems will be the party that supports privacy and choice. Obama could turn on a dime. Didn’t Mitt Romney do just that?

    I will vote McCain/Palin. I like “what you see is what you get” and McCain is who he says he is.
    Hillary was my first choice, of course.

    Meanwhile, I’ll start fighting for Roe. These brave and hardworking people held *choice* signs and marched at the Republican National Convention:

    http://www.republicansforchoice.com/

  • ginamc

    LOL!!! Exactly. A BO Presidency = 4 more years of Bush. They’re more alike than Bush and Mc, and the Obamabots are too naive or drunk on Kool-Aid to see it.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    “But here is my question to you… Is the women’s movement so atrophied that the terms Roe v Wade and Women’s Movement are now interchangable?”

    And my question to you is:

    Is that a bar of soap in your hand or a rock?

  • No way No Mccain

    Thank God. Bush makes Americans look stupid enough. A soccer mom addressing the UN. Oh please, what a joke.

  • Arabella Trefoil

    Indeed I do hope Senator McCain will live a long healthy life. Don’t you hope so too?

    Obama is just a man, that’s true. A poor specimen of a man, but undeniably a man.

    Tea?

  • No way No Mccain

    MCain is a puppet and a pawn. The right wing pundents who hated MCcain up until a few months ago are starting to write columns about him. He is not helping himself with his stupid economy comments. Take about a puppet and a pawn.

  • StrawberrybitesBarky

    Yeah, you’re not sexist. And it’s hockey, not soccer.

  • sayitisntso

    Not only has the DNC reached new lows in their treatment of women candidates,
    “Obama is on record supporting the gruesome medical procedure known as “partial-birth abortion,” or as normal people call it, infanticide. As an Illinois state senator, he insisted that aborting babies alive and leaving them to die in a cold, dark closet was a physician’s prerogative.”

  • sowsear

    I don’t see how Clinton could say that having Palin there would be unduly political. This was an anti-Iran rally. What could be more political than that?? I think the Obama campaign didn’t want Clinton there as it might seem as if he/his campaign were anti-Iran/proIsrael.

  • Arabella Trefoil

    The trolls are very angry lately.

    I am pro-choice and I am voting for McCain. Obama is a danger to our rights to privacy.

  • http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/nextgencorp/ AdrianS

    To get the FACTS on what John McCain believes about abortion–go to the McCain+Palin website.

    To get tips on Obama arguments:
    http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=57

    Be prepared when the Obamaites come calling — show them the FACTS.

    Down with Obama. Long live America!

  • athy

    Felizarte-
    Many people agree with your position 100%.
    This video is to your point exactly…

    Dear Mr. Obama: Who Are You?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16aBNduAyQ4

    This video is based 100 % on easily verifiable facts

  • eurogirl70

    this entire primary season, the discussion has been about Hillary and what a bitch she was. I have had to watch the MSM and blogoshere take one cheap shot after another at Hillary.

    That being said, I find very humorous when men talk about Roe Vs. Wade. It is like operation rescue and concerned women for America all being headed up by men.

    When the morning after pill gets as much MSNBC commerical airtime during Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman’s shows as does commericals for Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra…we’ll talk.

    When pharmacists can tell a woman that they will not fill her birth control prescription on moral grounds but have no qualms about filling a man’s erectile dysfunction drug….we’ll talk.

    These are the issues that women’s organizations should have been focused on; birth control and prevention. I am pro-choice but I think that abortion should be safe, legal, and RARE!

    Don’t talk to me of birth control. All the little Obama 20-something girls who thought their male counterparts were oh so funny taking one potshot after another at Hillary are on their own!

    Women who do not behave respectfully toward other women who have always conducted themselves respectfully, as Hillary Clinton has done, are no “sisters” of mine.

    These little girls are the ones going out and binge drinking and waking up with their knickers bunched up around their ankles. They are the ones flashing their boobs in Girls Gone Wild videos. They are the ones who take no offense when so-called muscisians refer to them as “females”,”bitches” and “hos”.

    Women bear responsibility for the tone they allow their male counterparts to take.

    When Queen Latifah wrote the song U.N.I.T.Y, she said “…I ain’t a bitch or a ho”

    Many of Obama’s male supporters disrespected women during this primary season with glee and abandon. Do not think that I can be manipulated into voting for Obama due to Roe. I know how to NOT get pregnant. As Lady de Rothschild said so well last night on CNN, the right to terminate a pregnancy is protected within the Constitution and women should not allow it to be used as a yolk to vote against their better judgement.

    Some of you will argue that it is the Court that decides what is Constitutional, and you would be correct. However, it is the Judiciary Committee that decides whether a judicial nominee makes it out of committee for a vote and eventual apointment.

    We live in a Republic and as such there should exist an adversarial relationship, to a degree, between the legislative and executive branches. That being said, I believe that women run a greater risk of being sidelined under an Obama administration than a McCain administration. Let me explain my reasoning.

    Obama has not been vetted and has been coddled by the Democratic leadership. Should he win the presidency, the Democratic leadership in Congress will be fortified into believing that their decision about Obama was the right one and as a result, Obama will be allowed to get whatever he wants thru a very compliant Congress. We have seen his desire to expand Bush’s Faith-Based Initiative program. Obama is talking about charter schools, funded with Wall-Street and taxpayers monies. Obama was the one who went on stage with Donnie McGurkin of “God cured me of my homosexuality”. It was Obama who refused to have his picture taken with SF mayor Gavin Newsome.

    Now let’s look at a McCain presidency…..
    If the Democrat’s lose, they will have to wake up to the reality that we, in the reality based community have been well aware of all primary, that they have made a huge error in judgement. As a result of that fact, and the fact that the Democrat’s will probably maintain a slim majority in both Houses, will “shame” them into holding a new administration’s feet to the fire. Yeah, I know they didn’t do it for the last (2) years so why should we assume they will do it now?

    The reason for that is that a Democratic presidential loss will probably bring about Congressional leadership change. Possibly Hillary Clinton in the position of Senate Majority Leader and Steny Hoyner or Jack Murtha to replace Nancy Pelosi. All of these Democrat’s have strong Democratic princples and have worked in a bipartisanship fashion, without selling our their core principles.
    We also know that McCain has a history of bi-partisanship and he understands that you can’t have everything. He will concentrate on “core” issues like energy, Iraq, and the economy and not be side-lined by “wedge” issues.

  • sayitisntso

    Maybe Donna Brazille can get that guy who recently became pregnant to help her elect Nobama. Sometimes it takes a satire to point out that men will never have uteruses and trying to make women as hostile as men is what the DNC is all about.

  • Gayle in Oregon

    I am an avid feminist but not a classically liberl one. I am a horse breeder who has artificially inseminated horses myslef, collected semen, frozen it, examined it under microsope for viability and shipped it. So, from a lay scientist point of view as well as a woman and moralist…and a secularist for the most part.

    There was a time when the need for abortion was greater as a method of family planning. NOW it is not so needed…there is a morning after pill and many birth control choices….Every woman of child rearing age should have a stash of morning after pills in her wallet like guys carry condoms. We, as feminists should make sure this becomes a reality. Abortion is a very bad and emotionally devastating form of birth control at best. There are people waiting in line to adopt as well.

    Conception does not take place immediatly upon insemination for the most part, rather it takes place hours or even days later SO there is a good argument that the moring after pill is not abortion even to the stictest pro-lifers.

    3rd trimester abortions, partial birth or late term abortions are murder in my book. I have never been able to stomach this practice and its devasting to even think about it if you were to really see it in aciton like from a nurses perspective. First trimester…not so bad…..second…….very bad but maybe not murder toward the end of the second trimester.

    I have very personal experience as a woman with the issue of unwanted pregnnacy. I also have a special needs grandchild whom I adore as well as typically developing grandchildren. I do not have the knowledge to approach this from a legal or constitutional point but love learning from others.

    As far as rape and incest…..lets go back to the moring after pill. If you are raped….go to the doctor…..if you are the victim of incest…..go to the Dr….If you are too poor we will pay for your moring after treatment. If you are the victim of incest and the pregnancy can be aborted early you should have it with the “threat to health of the mother’” reason as your mental health is certainly at risk. But, DONT WAIT!

    I presume the morning after pill is good for more than 24 hours but I am not an expert on this. But, basically these are my views and solutions. It will not be perfect but run away abortion is not the soluton either. Too much and too loose teen sex has many negative elements not to mention STDS. Lets talk about human needs and feeling and dicuss that masterbation is not a bad thing and a much better alternative than drunken or drugged teen sex. Lets help them avoid premature emotional complications that early sex brings with it not to mention the disaster of teen pregancy or STDS.

    I support a shelter for unwed mothers in my town by the way. Some keep their children some adopt.

    This is not meant to be a comprehensive solution but rather to get an honest discussion going on solutions. I would love to hear comments on my views.

    I think the Dem Party does try to scare women with this issue.

  • Ferd McBerfle

    You have no idea what you’re talking about, bot.

  • Steve

    The whole “If-you-vote-McCain-Roe-vs.-Wade-is-dead” rests on a wrong assumption.
    People who use Roe vs. Wade, or, to be more precise, Supreme Court replacements as an argument against McCain, assume that Obama would nominate liberal judges as replacements. Where does he say that he would do so?

    Where is his commitment to Roe vs. Wade? In Pennsylvania, he was standing next to pro-lifer Casey and I don’t remember Obama declaring his support for Roe vs. Wade back then. He is always trying to have the cake and eat it too.
    Washington DC’s ban on hand guns is constitutional, trust me, I am a constitutional lawyer!
    The Supreme Court ruling against the Washington DC ban on hand guns is 100% correct. The Second Amendment is more important than city laws, trust me, I am a constitutional lawyer!

    And since the issue of abortion is above and beyond his pay grade, be sure that he will do exactly nothing, if not forced to. If he nominates someone for the Supreme Court, it will be a neuter, someone without strong convictions, just like him and it will take him ages and committees.

    We better spare him those difficult decisions and vote for McCain…

  • No way No Mccain

    Who gives a fig what sport it is? She is still totally a bimbo and not fit to hold any office. She can’t hold a candle to Hillary. Not even in the same league.

    She is a incompetant blowhard. Got her little talking points and purses her mouth like she swallowed a lemon.
    I’m a woman, not a sexist. I have read your posts for months, I guess they passed out some of that Obama koolaid to all the repubs who want more of McSame.

  • sayitisntso

    amend my last: as hostile as Nobama’s supporters. Sorry, guys.

  • No way No Mccain

    The GOP is the party who uses woman. They like to try to scare us with another attack is on the way. You people need to find something to occupy your time. I guess some people just need someone to hate in order to be happy. They do have a pill for that.

  • No way No Mccain

    Oh such an intelligent comment. Go away.

  • sayitisntso

    “above my pay grade”!!! How callous!

  • Astra14

    “…argue with them…get in their face…”

    IS HE NUTS???!!! He really has a gift to make sure he drives people away! “get in their face”, that’s all way need!

    We own guns as well as most of our neighbors (mostly for hunting). I’m thinking now we should join the NRA!!!

  • No way No Mccain

    SF Hillary,
    Nothing you say will get through to these republicans. You do know that is what this site has become? I used to like Larry’s columns but how he allowed his website to get hijacked by a bunch of republican trolls spreading rumors is disgusting.

  • sayitisntso

    Even tossing a flower on a memorial like it’s a trash heap doesn’t top ABOVE my pay grade!

    Oh wait, the memory of the victims of 9/11 are worth about the same as a live abortion baby!

  • No way No Mccain

    Bad Obama. You guys are so desperatley grasping at straws. Bunch of juveniles.

  • //Yahoo ALforHill

    OT, I received a plea in the mail today from Mr. Dean and the DNC. I wrote back to him that I had been a democrat for 40 years. I will not go in to detail with everything I wrote. I just basically told him that I would be voting for Mac/Palin after what he, Brazille, Pelosi and others did to Hillary and the American people’s choice this election year. There was a democratic bumper sticker enclosed. I told him he could take the bumper sticker and paste it to his forehead. Might be worth one vote, but then again, he might get two votes if he stuck it on the other end. Sent him $300.00 in monopoly money. My husband will be short on money if we ever play the game again. Felt good.

  • No way No Mccain

    Things are bad and if you had a brain and used it, you would see that the GOP is the reason this country is in the toilet.

  • StrawberrybitesBarky

    Boring.

  • sayitisntso

    AL, I got that letter yesterday. I mailed an ad for lipstick with a message in black marker:

    PUMA for McCain/Palin

  • No way No Mccain

    I don’t have a candidate in this race. It’s not a wedge issue. It is a fact. But when all else fails call people who disagree with your ignorant statements names. You people are pathetic losers. Period. I won’t vote McCain or Obama but I hope Obama wins so I can see you all on the MSM going into the emergency room needing your medication. That is worth having Obama win. I have never seen such a small minded group of people who hate someone. Again, thank god for the electoral college which was put into place for pea brains like yours who have no clue about America.

  • athy

    NoWay NoMcCain,

    I might be worried aboout your remark were it not for the fact that look who the Neocon GOP would have to go against to make that happen-
    McCain or God forbid something bad happens to him-then they would have to go through Palin.
    I assume the democrats in Congress would have a voice too?

    If Sen Obama were president, I wouldnt put it past him to negotiate Roe versus Wade decision away to the neocon GOP all in the name of political expediency.

    Sen Obama has a track record for doing things like this- BAIPA & FISA are examples.

  • http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/nextgencorp/ AdrianS

    I agree that in an educated and mature civilization, abortion is not only grotesque but is a sad form of birth control.

    Don’t do what Barack Obama says. Life begins at conception; abortion kills a human being.

    Pro-Life is being pro-responsibility. There is enough intelligence in America to share with young women and young men about sex and impregnation.

    Thanks for a good measure of experience and thoughtful insight.

  • SalG

    I have no “white guilt.” This is the latest meme and I don’t buy it.

    Good analysis of Roe v. Wade here:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/09/its-all-over-but-shouting-increasing.html

  • L

    I think it is ridiculous to base your
    vote on roe v wade. I am pro-choice but
    the chances of rov v wade being overturned
    are insignificant. McCain is not making
    that a part of his campaign and he could
    not single handedly make this happen.
    Judges almost always become more liberal
    in their thinking once they are in the
    court. I think this argument is merely
    a distraction and anyone who is baseing
    their vote on this one issue is just not
    looking at the big picture. There are so
    many ways to prevent pregnancy and there
    is the morning after pill. so many women
    have abused abortion – look at fat Sherry
    on the View who has had so many she can’t
    even remember. I find that disgusting and
    irresponsible and immoral to use abortion
    as your birth control. I just don’t see this
    as a deciding factor.

  • No way No Mccain

    Now that the Palin shine is wearing off the polls are starting to move:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

  • No way No Mccain

    No of course not. The truth is a hard thing to escape. But you all try to do it everyday.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Do you feel lucky?

  • sayitisntso

    Obama criticizes McCain in ads that say the GOP nominee takes an “extreme position on choice” and “will make abortion illegal.” That misrepresents McCain’s position.

    Scare.
    Tactics.
    By.
    Nobama.
    McCain/Palin 08

  • NoBO

    Texas Hill, your post was excellent! My wife is also very pro-choice, as I am, and we have no problem with McCain-Palin. Before we met over 37 years ago, she had an abortion pre-Roe. She had to travel to another state and it was a difficult experience for her. We went to meet John McCain and he told us that he has no litmus test for choosing judges. They just have to be qualified. Good enough for us.

  • athy

    NoWayNoMcCain,
    I am pro choice too.
    OPLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE BEFORE YOU engage in political attacks against McCain/Palin.

    Refute the article that this blog thread is based on.

    DO NOT CONTINUE TO PROMOTE FALSE INFORMATION ABOUT THE MCCAIN/PALIN ticket.

    You are engaging in a political attack that resonates with the WRONG VOTER PERCEPTION that some people have about McCain/Palin regarding Roe Vs Wade.

    You are spreading false information.

    I doubt you even read this article.

    So..you wont vote for McCain because of misinformation you have about his Roe vs Wade stance BUT you will vote for who?

    Sen Obama?

    Then PLEASE EXPLAIN his BAIPA ruling. You okay with killing babies that SURVIVED a botched abortion? Sen Obama is okay with doing this.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/18/finally-personal-vindication-but-a-major-new-problem-for-the-democratic-party/#more-4246

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTBkYTYzZDNjNDgyMWJmMzMxYzljYjYxNmEwMTdhYWE

    Life Lies by David Freddoso . National Review online (NRO) 8/17/08

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMwDq73gbm4

    Gianna Jesson story.
    For the record, I am a pro choice Democrat. Sen Obama’s position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act was/is reprehensible. Watch this clip and read the Freddoso interview to learn why I state this.

  • athy

    correction: I WAS A DEMOCRAT but I am no longer one.

    I am still, however, strongly pro choice.

  • allimom99

    It never ceases to amaze me how much these young women take for granted. I would like to see how many of them would be willing to take it to the barricades for their rights. I’m guessing not too many, as they’re too. busy shopping and texting each other about shopping, etc.

    while I differ with McCain on too many issues to actually vote for the guy, at least I KNOW pretty much where he stands. After 2 years, I can still not say the same of Obama. I won’t vote for him for many reasons, race NOT being one of them – I’m voting for Cynthia McKinney, a REAL progrssive who has also been screwed by the Democratic party.

    I never get tired of men holding Roe over women’s heads as a threat. As though we can’t fight for ourselves. The Obamacrats have made it very clear they don’t value our input OR our votes, so I say let them just try and win without us.

  • https://secure.johnmccain.com/Contribute/Contributef.aspx?guid=aa60f933-6b64-449a-80af-0a52994863dd Linda

    Well said. My hubby and I said we are so tired of Dem’s holding this over people.

    They sure didn’t care when they…and Backtrack Barry, were voting for Roberts.

  • Country First

    The important thing here, db, is that McCain will not FORCE his opinion on you. I hope that content of character as well as issues will figure into your equation of who to vote for.

  • sayitisntso

    Noway, Voting Day will change everything. Kerry was way far ahead of Bush for most of the year, still lost.

    In addition to the support of allowing a survivor or an abortion to die, Nobama is obviously for abortion. Interestingly, Biden was among a minority of Democrats in voting several times in favor of banning the procedure that opponents call partial birth abortion.

    Seems to me, Democrats are fishing for votes like throwing dynamite in the fish pond. Whatever works, they think. Democratic women for Nobama are pretty stupid!

  • Ferd McBerfle

    The idiots spreading that tripe don’t understand how our government works. As if the President can decree from on-high that abortion would be illegal, yeah, right. LMAO.

  • athy

    No Way No McCain-
    Then you have no problem with Sen Obama’s FISA ruling WHY?

  • Ferd McBerfle

    Hell, I’m sick of both parties using this as a wedge issue. They use it so they can “show” they are concerned about what the electorate wants while at the same time ignoring all the *really* important issues. And the gullible public falls for it every cycle. It got us Bush but hopefully not Oblahblah. This madness has to end.

  • TeakWoodKite

    db, How the heck does he know when life starts?

    With respect, do you? Don’t get me wrong. A person is in charge of their own body and no one else has any rights or claim to it.

    You are judging a person to be POTUS. Would you feel the same if Senator Biden or for that matter Senator Clinton had a view that was different than yours, but not consider other aspects?

    I think the position is “safe, legal and rare”, and does not have to involve someone elses political religious or other positions.

    Again, I ask for you is McCain a moral person. \
    We know that BO is immoral and indifferent to others.

    I do understand where you are coming from.

  • http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com InsightAnalytical-GRL

    I thought the same thing…it was a lame excuse for not wanting to be caught on video tape with Palin

    I wish Clinton would exhibit more “leadership” in not being so controlled by the party or Obama….

  • allimom99

    Aided and abetted all along the way by the Democrats. If you look at where the Wall Street (and Fanny/Freddy) lobbying money is going, you might have to change your tune. I’m sorry to say that the current debacle can be traced back to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act during Clinton’s 2nd term (under a Republican congress). Both sides wanted to get a piece of the pie, and now the taxpayers will have to foot the bill, as always.

    If you want to read something sensible, check out Hillary’s speech in the Senate today. She’s been warning of exactly this scenario for years.

    Waiting for 2012

  • LifeisGood

    Well, I wonder what kind of trouble that child would be causing you right now if it were born. Most likely not a smile…too bad your parents chose life for you huh?

  • MEchelle Hates America!

    In 1993 and 1994, McCain voted to confirm President Clinton’s nominees Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg

    whom he considered to be qualified for the U.S. Supreme Court.

  • athy

    BJ

    I am not a legal expert or constitutional lawyer or anything of the sort.

    How I interpret the following statement to be

    “person can be pro-choice and not support the Roe v Wade decision. They are two separate, but admittedly linked, issues.”

    Its not the decision Sen McCain is concerned about-he is concerned about the decision process and the lack of constutional-based reasoning/support the Roe vs wade decision had behind it-there was very little-acc to McCain and others.

    It was approved on shaky ground. Its the ‘ground’ he has a problem with-not the decision. He PERSONALLY has his own private views about abortion-as we all do.

    He did not bring that into the discussion when dealing with public policy-no need to-it is not part of his public policy decision making process…

    Important for people to know this distinction.

  • One Small Vote for McCain

    You have McCain’s stance EXACTLY correct…this is truly what he said…and I believe, exactly what he means.

    I also wholeheartedly agree with what would happen if Roe v. Wade was overturned.

    AND…I would not be disappointed. I am sick and tired of people in this nation looking to the Federal government for everything. States have rights and everyone ignores that and our elected officials purposely try to undermine that.

    I have been a huge state’s rights proponent for years. And, in fact, Hillary is very much a states rights proponent as well but perhaps not quite as much as McCain and certainly not as open as McCain.

    I believe this is why they (Hillary and McCain are very good friends….!

  • SalG

    Who cares. It was bound to happen. She was selected to solidify his base.

  • athy

    No Way No McCain.

    who would YOU rather have addressing the UN?

    Learn about the real Gov Palin & what she has accomplished in Alaska

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt6VzuseI30

    Now,

    Learn about the real Sen Obama and what he has accomplished in Chicago

    http://vodpod.com/watch/857180-why-chicagoans-are-against-obama

    Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer (2008)

    http://cbs4denver.com/national/chicago.summer.shootings.2.810882.html

    Sen Obama’s ACTUAL Legislative Accomplishments:

    http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html

  • LifeisGood

    To that I stand proud of America, because there are some of us who can keep it in our pants, and not just act upon feelings. If you can kill a person inside a womb, why not outside?

  • allimom99

    Of course MEN have no responsibility at all for preventing a pregnancy. Of course you realize that every no form of birth control, other than abstinence or sterilization, is 100% effective. My beautiful daughter is living proof. Why do we never talk about what men can do? It’s not JUST a woman’s responsibility, but only women are compelled to deal with the consequences. Just sayin’…

  • LifeisGood

    I wish that he could decide that murder is wrong. Didn’t Kevorkian get into trouble for killing humans?

  • looking for integrity

    Many prominent democrats, Casey and Biden included, are pro-life. If they do not force their beliefs on the people why is it that people expect Palin to? In her years in office she has never done this. How better to judge someone than by their deeds?
    A recent non-partisan analysis came about comparing and contrasting Obama’s and McCains staff and wages for men vs. women. Whereas Obama had few women in the top 25, highest paid campaign staff positions and paid the women within this group 83 cents to the dollar the men made, McCains top staff is predominantly female and they get paid $1.04 to every dollar men make. I believe that equal pay for equal work, and that hiring within the top positions in the job market should not be based on gender, is the most important cornerstone of feminism. I say this as a single mother who also saw her divorced single mother (Master’s degree) struggle to raise her three children, and as a woman who did have an abortion (medical reasons) after which I had two children.
    I do not believe that the right to choice is a fundamental feminist right that may be obliterated during a McCain/Palin administration. Because Roe vs. Wade defends a constitutional right, however tenuous it may seem: “According to the Roe decision, most laws against abortion in the United States violated a constitutional right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”, it will not be overturned.
    In fact, a related case (Doe vs. Bolton) which overturned the abortion law in Georgia by the Supreme Court through a decision made on the same day as Roe vs. Wade, came up again in 2003. The Supreme Court, one of the most conservative, refused to accept the appeal made to overturn the decision from 1973.
    “In 2003, Sandra Cano (the Doe in Doe vs. Bolton) filed a motion to re-open the case claiming that she had not been aware that the case had been filed on her behalf and that if she had known she would not have supported the litigation.[3] The district court denied her motion, and she appealed. When the appeals court also denied her motion,[4] she requested review by the United States Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court declined to hear Sandra Cano’s suit to overturn the ruling.[5]”
    Additionally, Planned Parenthood v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992), also gave a predominantly conservative court, appointed by pro-lifers, the opportunity to overturn Roe vs. Wade in its entirety. This did not happen. In fact, the rights guaranteed under the 14th amendment were supported, the reasons for “stare decisis” were noted, and going one step further, women no longer had to notify their spouse.
    “The O’Connor, Kennedy and Souter plurality opinion: These three justices began their written opinion by noting the U.S. government’s previous challenges to Roe v. Wade:
    “Liberty finds no refuge in a jurisprudence of doubt. Yet 19 years after our holding that the Constitution protects a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy in its early stages, Roe v. Wade (1973), that definition of liberty is still questioned. Joining the respondents as amicus curiae, the United States, as it has done in five other cases in the last decade, again asks us to overrule Roe.”

    The plurality opinion stated that it was upholding what it called the “essential holding” of Roe. The plurality asserted that the right to abortion is grounded in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and the plurality reiterated what the Court had said in Eisenstadt v. Baird: “[i]f the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child.”
    The plurality’s opinion also included some controversial language about the doctrine of stare decisis. The plurality emphasized the need to stand by prior decisions even if they were unpopular, unless there had been a change in the fundamental reasoning underpinning the previous decision. It also acknowledged the need for predictability and constancy in judicial decision making. For example,
    “Where, in the performance of its judicial duties, the Court decides a case in such a way as to resolve the sort of intensely divisive controversy reflected in Roe and those rare, comparable cases, its decision has a dimension that the resolution of the normal case does not carry. It is the dimension present whenever the Court’s interpretation of the Constitution calls the contending sides of a national controversy to end their national division by accepting a common mandate rooted in the Constitution.”

    The plurality went on to give society’s rejection of the “Separate but Equal” concept as a legitimate reason for the Brown v. Board of Education court’s rejection of the Plessy v. Ferguson doctrine. Emphasizing the need to not be seen as overruling a prior decision merely because the individual members of the Court had changed, O’Connor states,
    “Because neither the factual underpinnings of Roe’s central holding nor our understanding of it has changed (and because no other indication of weakened precedent has been shown), the Court could not pretend to be re-examining the prior law with any justification beyond a present doctrinal disposition to come out differently from the Court of 1973.”

    Since the plurality overruled some portions of Roe v. Wade despite its emphasis on stare decisis, Chief Justice Rehnquist in dissent argued that this section was entirely obiter dicta. All these opening sections were joined by Justices Blackmun and Stevens for the majority. The remainder of the decision did not command a majority, but at least two other Justices concurred in judgment on each of the remaining points.
    The plurality then overturned the strict trimester formula used in Roe to weigh the woman’s interest in obtaining an abortion against the State’s interest in the life of the fetus. Continuing advancements in medical technology meant that at the time Casey was decided, a fetus might be considered viable at 22 or 23 weeks rather than at the 28 weeks that was more common at the time of Roe. The plurality recognized viability as the point at which the state interest in the life of the fetus outweighs the rights of the woman and abortion may be banned entirely.
    The plurality also replaced the heightened scrutiny of abortion regulations under Roe, which was standard for fundamental rights in the Court’s case law, with a lesser “undue burden” standard previously developed by O’Connor in her dissent in Akron v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health.[1] A legal restriction posing an undue burden was defined as one having “the purpose or effect of placing a substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion of a nonviable fetus.” The plurality also overruled Akron v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, 462 U.S. 416 (1983) and Thornburgh v. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, 476 U.S. 747 (1986) [2], each of which applied “strict scrutiny” to abortion restrictions.[2]
    Applying this new standard to the Pennsylvania Act under challenge, the plurality struck down the spousal notification requirement, stating that it gave too much power to husbands over their wives and would worsen situations of spousal abuse. The plurality upheld the State’s 24 hour waiting period, informed consent, and parental notification requirements, holding that none constituted an undue burden.”
    Additionally, that a conservative US Supreme Court during a conservative administration would not overturn anything related to the right of choice when given that opportunity speaks volumes for me. (And any SCOTUS’s that McCain would select would have to be vetted by the Congress which is Democrat). I cannot say the same for Obama, whose actions both within his campaign, and without are exemplary for sexist and discriminatory practices in the sexism he has fostered. How do we really know what he will do?.
    Given what we’ve seen, I’d rather have a McCain with hands tied as President than Obama. After what we’ve seen the democratic party and Obama do, do we really want to be at the mercy of a Senate, House, and President that are Democrats give Obama this kind of power which Congress will not deny him (it has not passed the Bill repealing this)-from another blog:

    “The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, which was quietly signed by Bush on October 17, 2006, the very same day that he signed the Military Commissions Act, allows the president to station military troops anywhere in the United States and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to “suppress public disorder.”

    By revising the two-century-old Insurrection Act, the law in effect repeals the Posse Comitatus Act, which placed strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. The 1878 Act reads, “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.” As the only US criminal statute that outlaws military operations directed against the American people, it has been our best protection against tyranny enforced by martial law—the harsh system of rules that takes effect when the military takes control of the normal administration of justice. Historically martial law has been imposed by various governments during times of war or occupation to intensify control of populations in spite of heightened unrest. In modern times it is most commonly used by authoritarian governments to enforce unpopular rule.1

    Section 333 of the Defense Authorization Act of 2007, entitled “Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law,” states that “the President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service—to restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of (or “refuse” or “fail” in) maintaining public order—in order to suppress, in any State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.”

    Thus an Act of Congress, superceding the Posse Comitatus Act, has paved the way toward a police state by granting the president unfettered legal authority to order federal troops onto the streets of America, directing military operations against the American people under the cover of “law enforcement.”

    The massive Defense Authorization Act grants the Pentagon $532.8 billion to include implementation of the new law which furthermore facilitates militarized police round-ups of protesters, so-called illegal aliens, potential terrorists, and other undesirables for detention in facilities already contracted and under construction, (see Censored 2007, Story #14) and transferring from the Pentagon to local police units the latest technology and weaponry designed to suppress dissent.

    On September 19, a lone Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) noted that 2007’s Defense Authorization Act contained a “widely opposed provision to allow the President more control over the National Guard [adopting] changes to the Insurrection Act, which will make it easier for this or any future President to use the military to restore domestic order without the consent of the nation’s governors.” A few weeks later, on September 29, Leahy entered into the Congressional Record that he had “grave reservations about certain provisions of the fiscal Year 2007 Defense Authorization Bill Conference Report,” the language of which, he said, “subverts solid, longstanding posse comitatus statutes that limit the military’s involvement in law enforcement, thereby making it easier for the President to declare martial law.” This had been “slipped in,” Leahy said, “as a rider with little study,” while “other congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters had no chance to comment, let alone hold hearings on, these proposals.” Leahy noted “the implications of changing the [Posse Comitatus] Act are enormous.” “There is good reason,” he said, “for the constructive friction in existing law when it comes to martial law declarations. Using the military for law enforcement goes against one of the founding tenets of our democracy. We fail our Constitution, neglecting the rights of the States, when we make it easier for the President to declare martial law and trample on local and state sovereignty.”
    Its’ time to get down to the real issues facing our nation at this time. It’s time to set aside empty promises that cannot be kept. (As a Democrat I am disappointed in the Democratic Congress which has not kept many of its promises – and I am disappointed in Democrats like Obama who voted for FISA in opposition to his constituents. Being a Chicago resident I am also disappointed in the rest of his record.). It’s time to work out solutions across the board with everyone working together. Sometimes it will be a Democrat solution which will be best and at other times a Republican solution- our representatives should accept that and do what’s best for the people. And we in turn should look beyond the “brand name” of our parties and select leaders based on a thorough and fair analysis of each, and what they have already accomplished for our country via their town or state.

  • allimom99

    Actually, Casey IS the stronger case, which just adds to the evidence for Roe being a dog-whistle.

  • WMCB

    LMAO! Puhleeeeze. Everything Obama says now about the economy is what he has cribbed from Hillary in the last 2 months.

    His own website has changed his tax plan twice so far. He is trying to cram his sorry ass into Hillary’s pantsuit as fast as he can, and the public is not buying it.

    He spent 19 moths trashing the Clinton economy, and now he wants to pull that mantle of success over his self and call it “his”.

    He’s a fake, and the voters are slowly waking up to that fact.

  • looking for integrity

    Please note that I quoted extensively in my previous post and the material is within quotation marks.

  • LindaA1

    Exactly. McCain would have to get a staunch conservative judge approved by a majority of the Senate – which will have a strong Democratic majority in 2009, likely a 55/45 split. What Democratic senator wants to commit political suicide by voting to overturn Roe when a strong majority of the electorate would howl about it?

    I’m not at all worried about Roe and this Hillary supporter will be voting McCain-Palin.

  • MEchelle Hates America!

    Despicable. It’s the exact same dangerous propaganda the 3rd Reich forced on the world.

    The imperfect must be killed due to cost – it’s ghastly.

  • wodiej

    I don’t see McCain trying to overturn Roe vs Wade. That’s a powder keg.

  • Country First

    Let’s see, you have a crystal ball and you know that 3 seats will become vacant. Imagine that.

  • Country First

    So much needs to be done that McCain & Paulin will have no time to worry about a law that has been on the books forever…

    I’m counting on them to work on cleaning up corruption so the rest of the critical issues can be attended to.

  • LindaA1

    I think this argument that life begins at conception is silly. Why? What about the joining of sperm and egg makes life begin?

    Basically, it’s nothing by a mass of living cells at that point. And just seconds before the “sacred joining,” the cells were living as well.

    So obviously the “living” part has nothing to do with “when life begins.”

    Okay, so when the “joining” occurs, some would argue on the most elementary level that the “joined” cells are a potential human being.

    So is the “potential human being” what makes life begin?

    Hmmm. “Potential” is the key word. Not gonna happen without help from some external force – like the mother or a test tube.

    In other words, just the joining of a sperm and egg does not a human being make – without help.

    So if help is needed to get that sperm-egg mass to human being status, then why isn’t an egg by itself also a potential human being – it too is living cells and just needs some help making it to human being status, help like a sperm and a mother or test tube.

    Is this coming down to just a matter of degrees of help – of how much external help is needed by a cell to get to that sainted human being status?

    Then why isn’t a sperm by itself also a potential human being (also just needing a little external help to get there)?

    Oops. That would mean male masterbation is abortion by the thousands.

    Nevermind.

  • Country First

    What McCain wants to do and what he has the power to do are two different things. Wise up.

  • Gal from Tex

    After reading all your posts up to this one NWNM, you’re starting to sound like the teacher in a Charley Brown skit…wa wa wa wa wa wa.

  • d2d

    I’m late to the this thread BUT RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

  • MP98

    I am neither pro-choice nor pro-life.
    I don’t think it’s a legal question, and it’s certainly not a NATIONAL question.
    If Roe v Wade were thrown out and sent back to the states, does anyone really think that NY, California, Minnesota, etc. would ban abortions?
    It is in the interest of both extremes to keep the question roiling. Why?
    Money.

  • sayitisntso

    It’s not a legal issue if women can’t be denied an abortion?? whahhhh?

  • Tristan

    So Obamabots are going to be like Mormons and go door to door converting people now? That should be amusing. Sure, come to my house and try and convert me. See how that works.

  • MEchelle Hates America!

    Dr. Kevorkian let gravely ill people die more humanely as they otherwise would have suffered seemingly endless torture without his kindness.

    They chose to die and not a single person complained.

    If I get ALS, I pray that a Dr. Kevorkian is there to spare me.

  • sayitisntso

    The party of Dean, Brazille, Reid and Obama aren’t interested in ANY need (much less pro-choice guarantees) of any women who makes less than 40K/year!

    They want to get RID of that portion of the traditional Democratic base.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    I have to ask:

    What good is the right to “choose” if I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

    Obama and the DNC elite took away my vote in the primaries. They threw my vote away. That right is a lot more important to me than my right to an abortion.

    I will fight for suffrage first, choice second.

    This is one reason why I am voting for McCain, who had nothing to do with Bush’s voting shenanigans in the past two elections.

  • politicsIsdirty

    I have a very good friend who like me is a staunch supporter of Hillary (even gave a generous contribution to Hillary’s campaign). After Hillary’s endorsement of Obama, he became an Obama supporter. For weeks I have sending him video clips of how Obama and the Obama army maltreated Hillary plus the numerous reasons why McCain is the better candidate.

    An hour ago he admits that although he is still for Obama, he is starting to have doubt and feels that McCain seems to be a better fit to be President.

    Wish me luck.

  • sayitisntso

    Sometimes, liberal men don’t realize how mysogenistic their party is. Good LUCK!

  • http://mmb silverfox

    SFHillary….

    go back and read texas hill County’s essay.

    i particularly like her point about …”is the womens movement so atrophied that the terms Roe v Wade and Women’s Movement are now interchangeable?” this is an important observation.

    as a second wave feminist i know how hard it was to get roe through. McCain is right…it is flawed as a law(see above essay).

    as a married lesbian in Massachusetts, i can say that the state by state thing works. if roe wade had to go to a state by state consensus should roe be overturned, then at this point i believe the states would be ok with a womans right to choose, as abortion is now part of the fabric of awareness.

    bottom line is, i refuse to be taken hostage by the obamacans fear mongering because i am a feminist and a lesbian, when the primary issues are the security of the country and the economy.

    we all need to work on issues of classism, sexism, and racism equally.

  • tek

    Obama is Columbia and Harvard Law.

  • tek

    Here, here!

  • canucklehead

    Roe v Wade will NEVER be overturned. This is a scare tactic by Obama supporters. But, I think the right to life is a central issue in the campaign. Clearly, Obama opposed the Illinois BAIPA. If you read his reasons they were more for the protection of doctors who might face lawsuits over botched abortions or the need for extra medical personel in the operating room. In other words, his objections were Monetary.

    Another interesting comment was made by Nicholas Provenzo, who argued that Trig Palin is a burden to society and should have been aborted as Down’s Syndrome people have marginally productive lives.
    Again, the issue is Monetary. Shades of Nazi Germany. I fear that if such people achieve a bully pulpit in an Obama administration ( and don’t think they couldn’t) women will lose their right to give birth to a child deemed by the powers that be to be an economic burden.

  • Serena

    Eurogirl70, WOW!!!! right on sister! Preach it. Bravo! Bravo!

  • RJ

    The DNC must be desperate for money. They sent something to me………and I’ve been off their list for months. So I just sent it back ( in the postage paid envelope…no stamp) requesting to be removed from their list.

    I can’t wait until November 4th!!!

    McCain/Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  • Peniel

    Q: Did McCain support the attempts to add a Constitutional ban on gay marriage?

    Q: Has he ever authored a bill to restrict gay rights or ban abortions?

    This article makes a good point which should not be overlooked: McCain is more of a Barry Goldwater republican than a Bush republican.

    I live in Arizona. He’s a moderate and a fiscal conservative. He holds social conservative beliefs … but it is his laissez faire, anti-government belief system that drives his legislation.

    And, correct me if I’m wrong (I could be on this point) Sarah Palin is more conservative than McCain on this issue of Roe… however, she is pro-contraception, pro morning after pill and supports abortion when a woman’s life is at issue. As such, she’s not any more conservative than most devout Catholics.

    How has McCain governed? How has Palin governed? Have they been like Rick Santorum? No. They have focused on fiscal responsibility, waste in government, streamlining government and getting rid of corruption in government.

    Their past priorities and actual accomplishments while in office give insight to their future governing style.

    Also, several others have said it well: we have a system of checks and balances for a reason. Just like Bill Clinton had to deal with a Republican controlled Congress in order to get his SCOTUS nominees through … McCain would have to do the same. He’d never get a hard-right, anti-abortion candidate through the Democrat-controlled Congress.

    And, remember, these judges who are even considered for SCOTUS justices have long judicial records … it’s not like they can hide their record.

    I’m one of those old bra burners. I fought hard for the passage of the Equal Rights Amendment. I’m a Democrat and pro-choice … and like many others here, I believe abortions should be safe, legal and RARE!

    Bottom line: let me be very clear:

    This ole gal is too smart to let the Democratic party fog-up my glasses with fear tactics. And, I’ll be damned if I let them or anyone else define MY FEMINISM! I’m not a feminist based on ONE issue… and I’ll never give the Democrats, NOW or NARAL the right to box me in or tell me which women’s issues are most important.

    To me, I’m unwavering in my goal: Hillary 2012!

    That will NEVER happen if Obama is elected.
    — peniel cronin

  • Silver

    Regarding the economy—like many people, my mom is a multi-millionaire. She became that way without any education, and with no help from my Dad. How did she do it? By saving her nickels and dimes and wisely investing in the stock market. She keeps her cool everytime the stocks are low like this while everyone else is panicking, then she calmly buys up the bargains!!

    I’ve seen her do this time and time again.

  • http://lesstalkmoreactivism.blogspot.com/ whoframedrudy

    This Supreme Court thing is the Democratic equivalent of Dick Cheney yelling ’911! 911! 911!’ It is a fear tactic.

    The record of qualified Republican Supreme Court justices going back 50 years is surprisingly good. Nixon packed the court with 4 appointees, and they all voted against him on Watergate. Major cases on gay rights, abortion, death penalty, first amendment, executive privilege — we’ve gotten good rulings from conservative justices.

    The main thing is not to let another hack on the Court like Clarence Thomas. ‘Uncle’ Thomas played the race card to get past the judiciary committee.

  • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

    Well for starters, I have been listening to the Democratic party hold Roe v Wade and “equal pay” over our heads for decades. If they REALLY cared they would have legislated these things long ago. But then what would they have to hold over women?

    Here’s what I think. I think Roe v wade is going NOWHERE. They count VOTEs before they count ANYTHING, including ‘conception”. NOw that having been said, I WISH it would be taken out of the hands of the Federal government and given to the states. Then all these candidates wouldn’t use it as the freaking wedge it’s been for so long. They use it to keep all the people fighting so nobody notices what’s REALLY going on. And I’m sick of it.

    If I had my wish, I would give it to the states and shut these people the hell up.

    I have other thoughts too. Those thoughts center around my belief that if Barack Obama were to become president, women would have a LOT more to worry about than roe v wade. The attitude of a president rolls downhill into the workplace and the home. I have seen good times in Corporate America and bad times because of presidents. I don’t trust barack obama with my country. I don’t trust him with my life. But MOST of all, I don’t trust him with my rights as a human being without a penis.

  • snosandy

    Don’t give up now, you’re friend is finally seeing the truth. One candidate has a track record of crossing party lines for reform. The other one has a long list of radical associates.

  • http://JohnMcCain.com Berserk “Hillawee can you change my diapy pwease” Ohitler

    You speak the deepest of truths.

  • http://! Clinton Fan

    As another staunchly prochoice Democrat (who will likely be an independent after this election) I would also like to note that the ADVISE AND CONSENT role of the Senate serves a purpose. The President can only NOMINATE, he does not have the power to seat justices on the bench.

    A Democratic Senate will simply have to work for a change, and “throw back” any of those “fishy” nominees that McCain sends to them. Borking IS an option, and it will simply have to be used. IF need be, that is.

  • Ginger

    We aren’t your typical republicans…we are mostly Clinton Democrats. We are also thinkers, and we have done our research. How dare the democrats think they can spend a year spitting on us then threaten us into doing their bidding.
    Some of us were against Obama before we were for Hillary. It has nothing to do with Hillary. It is about how truly awful Obama is. It really is just that simple. Had you all decided to run a decent candidate with some actually credentials, we would be all over it….unfortunately that is not the case. So good luck with that thug mentality….I bet it doesn’t work in your lives any better than it does on blogs. It seems obvious that the whole bot-force is panicking judging by how personal the attacks have become. Smells like fear.

  • Ginger

    These are some of the reasons she has such a high rating up here….she works with both sides to do what is right, not what is expedient or what her party wants. If she does as much for the country as she has for Alaska, we all will be the better for it.

  • Kim

    I am a Hillary supporter that now loves McCain/Palin. I am a Blue Dog democrat, I am fisically conservative and socially liberal. I want fisical responsibility this year, we can not afford Obama’s socialist programs. I know that Bush never did anything about Roe v. Wade and McCain will not do anything about it either. I am feeling my Reagan pull and I am feeling republican this year. I am past my child bearing years so this is now a non issue for me. I want low taxes, my business to grow and government to stay out of my way now. So I can officailly say that because of Palin and her strides I can officially say that I have become a republican at heart. The Repubicans have always had my wallet at heart and the democrats had my womens issues but with Palin I can get thebet of both worlds and I am so happy right now.

  • Danny

    My Mother in Law also Pro-Choice “not pro-abortion” or “Anti-Abortion” but believe’s it is between a woman and her doctor and should not be used as a contraception. I get pregnant, I just go and get an abortion – no problem, bad night at the casino right?! I dunno. Why are there so many abortions if women can easily get the pill or men get clipped or condoms and dams can be used? I’m naive I have to admit (gay) and pro-choice. I also have to admit that I think that women who get pregnant should carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption if they can’t or won’t keep the child. Life for me begins at conception – that’s also where all the STD’s start. So is a baby a life an STD to be cured with an abortion or pill? I don’t know. I wish that more men and women were ready to be accountable for the sex the have. I would say that in the case of the Mothers life at risk a baby should be aborted. Rape? well yes but that should be between a woman and her doctor.

    I am voting for McCain/Palin because they are the better candidates. I’m not a one issue voter and have voted for Democrats for years not always agreeing with them that Abortion on demand is the best way to go about it.

    What do I know? Not much. Obama calls me White Trash. LOL

  • ann

    I agree that feminism and women’s rights should be broader than roe v wade but I don’t agree that abortion should be a state issue. We cannot have laws legislating medical care because then women can be denied birth control or medical procedures based on state law.

    The role of law with regard to choice is, essentially, at what point does the fetus have the same legal rights of protection and privacy as the woman has. Personally I think there is a case to be made that at the point the fetus is viable outside the womb it has a right to protection…but, I know others view the mother’s rights as paramount up until the moment of birth.

  • http://home.comcast.net/~vincep312 Vince P – Chicago

    Personally I think R v W should be overturned because

    1 – I think it’s absurd to say that it’s a Constitutional Right

    2 – According to the 10th Amendment all power not granted to the Fed Govt and not forbidden the States, resides in the States or the People.

    3 – Courts are the wrong venue to issue policy

    4 – Decisions on matters that touch our most deeply held convinctions should not be forbidden to us.

    When the Court ruled on R v W, the Court instanteously created two warring camps, the Pro-Choice and Pro-Life. Now destined to always battle each other , yet each unable to resolve the war.

    I would say our national culture has suffered from this forced conflict. So much distrust has built up , and anger and resentment.

    The people of the State via the Legislatures should decide the policy.. this means that each side has to talk to the other.

    I feel the same way about a number of cultural things.. including gay marriage. Keep these things out of the Court.dd

  • For Impartial Journalism

    This is pure BS. I guess you do not have any personal experience with Down Syndrome?

    Well, I DO! My sister-in-law, 47 years old, has DS. She has lived a full life and up until a year ago attended a workforce center daily (she is currently recuperating from spinal fusion due to degenerative arthritis). That workforce center is filled with adults with various developmental disabilities but primarily adults with DS.

    The workers there fill contract jobs for local businesses and national corporations (two companies that contract to her center regularly are Gore, as in Gore-Tex, and Konica). The main purpose of the center is to train those with developmental disabilities to work in regular jobs (her boyfriend with DS has worked at McDonald’s for years) with the hope that they will one day be able to live either in a group situation or best case scenario, on their own.

    DS kids are not all the same. Some are so severely affected with other problems that they die early in life. Others are so little affected that you may not even realize they have DS. The majority have avg. life expectancy of 55-60 years. I expect that age will go up as we are finally to a place in society where DS kids are no longer hidden away and are receiving the necessary operations (heart defects fixed, tongue shortening for better speech abilities) to help them compete with other children in school.

    Children born with DS are designated by the government as permanently disabled and as such are eligible for a monthly SSI from Social Security. SSI checks are adjusted based on other income. In other words, once a DS adult has a job, the SSI check is reduced or discontinued based on the salary received.

    Please get the facts and stop listening to the Obama and hard left propaganda put out to scare and manipulate.

  • Trolls Go To Hades

    “I don’t want them punished with a baby” Obama

  • For Impartial Journalism

    The Dow closed today at $11,019.69.

    On Jan. 26, 2001, right after Bush took office, it was $432.01 less.

    On Jan. 24, 1993, right after Bill Clinton took the Oath for his first term, it was $7,748.57 less.

    On Jan. 23, 1981, 3 days after Ronald Reagain took office, the Dow Jones avg. was under $1,000! That is $940.19 — more than $10,000 less than what Dow Jones avg. is now.

    Wake up folks! We have had a terrific ride in the stock market but for the last 10 years at least, the SEC and the FED have propped up the mortgage and housing markets in order to keep our economy rolling along. Everyone knew we were living on borrowed time.

    What is happening now is a severe market correction. Notice how the 2 sectors of our economy that are primarily affected are housing/construction and banking???

    So, we may have to live through a steep rise in mortgage rates again like we did in the 1980s. Some publicly traded companies will have to cut dividends or reduce them for a while. After the “crash” of 1987, the same thing happened.

    All is not lost and we are not in a depression. We will probably have a recession. But we will live through it with the right leadership.

    The right leadership is someone who tells the truth but does not hype us with despair and doom.

    Abortion on demand has been an issue forever and the fight will go on. BUT it is not the reason to throw out the better leader and elect someone who has no f-ing idea what to do about the economy and thinks AIG is American Insurance Group rather than the correct American International Group.

    We need calm, determined, honest leadership. John McCain is the only person currently running for President who fits that bill.

  • This is MICHELLE!!!!

    “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at.” — – Obama’s friend, Bill Ayers in 1970

  • This is MICHELLE!!!!

    Obama has friends and supporters like this also.

    “We made mistakes, and we’d do it again. I wish that we’d done more. I wish we’d been more militant.” — Obama’s friend, Bernardine Dohrn

  • The People Behind the Reformer

    Right.

    The Dow closed today at $11,019.69.

    On Jan. 26, 2001, right after Bush took office, it was $432.01 less.

    And since Bush took office, the value of the dollar has declined by 41%.

    If you had $1000 in the bank when Bush took office you may still have $1000 in the bank, but it’s now worth only $690.

    McCain may talk reform, but his policies can be described in one word: Reaganomics.

  • Garfield

    Obama’s economic plan is a disaster.

    He is only offering typical class warfare rhetoric. While preaching his belief in unity and campaigning on change, he only divides this country.

    His economic policy will harm ordinary citizens and further harm the economy.

    Obama’s Tax Plan Hurts Small Businesses
    Obama continues to say he will tax people making over $250,000. What he doesn’t tell people is that plan to tax “people” over $250,000 includes small businesses and is a marriage penalty. Obama’s plan to raise taxes on households making more than $250,000 will raise taxes on most small-business profits in America. These are mom and pop shops that employ few employees. These are the corner businesses that make America work.

    What type of tax rate are we talking about? Currently, S corporations face a top tax rate of 35 percent, while sole proprietors and general partners face a tax rate of 37.9 percent (since they’re responsible for paying both income tax and the Medicare component of the payroll tax.)

    Obama is a fool, as are the people who believe his lies.

  • Garfield

    Your candidate is a wedge issue. He is hateful and deceitful. If you support him, you are soulless.

    In Elko, Nevada, Obama told the audience to argue with neighbors and get in their face.

    “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said.

  • Monet

    Texas Hill Country: “If the women’s movement is more than just Roe v Wade and is more about gender equality and respect, then please explain to me how it is that Sarah Palin is not a giant step forward for women?”

    I’m pro-choice and I think life begins at conception. Some killings are justified – self-defense, executions, etc. For me, Roe v. Wade regardless of the reasoning used in the opinion, falls under a lawful termination of life.

    I think the women’s movement is about choice and opportunity. Having the choice to have a career with no stop signs based on gender. Being able to choose to be a kindergarten teacher or an astronaut. Piloting the radio station’s traffic helicopter or a fighter jet. The choice to have a child or to end an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy. The choice to have children without marriage. The choice to marry and be a stay at home mother. The choice to have eight kids and a career. The opportunity to apply for a credit card or buy a home without a man to co-sign. Choices. The same choices and opportunities men are granted under our laws.

    I don’t see Governor Palin’s addition to the Republican ticket as being a giant step forward for women. Geraldine Ferraro’s run for vice president in 1984 was a giant step forward. Shirley Chisholm, Elizabeth Dole and Hillary Clinton’s runs for president were very large steps. Governor Palin comes after a long line of strong, knowledgeable, informed women with a long history of service who broke the barriers and the taboos from fighting for the right to vote to running on a presidential ticket.

    In my opinion, Governor Palin is a step back for women. She wasn’t chosen because of her intelligence, her credentials and knowledge of domestic and international affairs, her experience, integrity, an extensive history working in government, etc. She was chosen for her ability to energize a crowd, to build a movement behind her. Senator McCain needed a cheerleader and Governor Palin fit the bill with the extra bonus of being a woman along with having right wing conservative views. I keep waiting for her to start waving pompoms.

    While I think Governor Palin was chosen for her ability to be a cheerleader, I don’t think she’s an airhead. I think she’s a very intelligent woman, one who is quite adept at manipulation and has an innate intuition when it comes to making the right moves politically. Those are skills that shouldn’t be scoffed at and are an asset. However, they’re dangerous in the White House when there isn’t a strong background of knowledge, experience and resolution of domestic and international issues.

    It’s a step backwards for women when a woman is chosen as a running mate not because of her knowledge and experience as a leader in domestic and international affairs but instead for ability as a leader to energize a campaign to counteract the opponent’s rock star persona.

    I was firmly voting for Senator McCain until Governor Palin was added to the ticket. I think Senator McCain thinks he can contain her more extreme views in Washington. From my research into Governor Palin, she can’t be contained. Governor Muraski tried to contain her in Alaska by placing her on the oil and gas commission. It didn’t take Governor Palin long to figure out how to get off the commission and into Governor Muraski’s job. Governor Palin plans to be sworn in as president in 2013.

    A McCain presidency doesn’t have me fearing that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. While Senator McCain doesn’t like the Supreme Court decision and thinks abortion decisions should be left to states, he’s also not a pro-life crusader. He knows if the abortion issue gets thrown back to the states, we’ll have a mess of pro-lifers and pro-choicers marching on state capitals. The nutcases will be bombing clnics and shooting ob/gyns. I really doubt he wants to be the president that sets that in motion.

    Then there’s Governor Palin. She admits she likes to ruffle feathers. She doesn’t seem to care much about the fall out as long as her policy is put forth. So far as Alaska’s governor she’s kept her attention directed at the oil companies and filling the state treasury, but that doesn’t mean given a few years in office her religious views wouldn’t be showing up in her policies.

    Governor Palin worries me. Senator McCain doesn’t. I now see it as a roll of the dice to vote for Senator McCain. From one day to the next, I’m bouncing between writing in Senator Clinton’s name or voting for Senator McCain.

  • Snickers

    I want to respond to your question and fine post, Texas Hill Country. I am a feminist and a card-carrying NOW member, and I think McCain’s selection of Palin is a gigantic step FORWARD. I am appalled at the continued misogyny I’ve been seeing practiced by so-called liberals. If women don’t stand together, we’ll never get anywhere-which is why the ERA didn’t make it. It’s why we still don’t have pay equity and a whole lot of other things like child care in the work place. Remember WWII when women had to do the traditional male jobs? Child care was provided at that time. This is one of the reason why I’m a PUMA. And I have shared that opinion with everyone I know, not that it has cut any ice with many.

  • Snickers

    very well said Eugogirl 70. I agree. Although I think it’s possible to lose our majority in congress due to the DNC machinations this election season.

  • Judy L. NC

    I disagree. IMO, having Gov. Palin on the ticket IS a giant step forward. She actually has a real chance to WIN and HOLD OFFICE, unlike all the other “strong, knowledgeable” women who have failed. Concern trolls like you and Gloria Steinem and Erica Jong who say, ‘not this particular woman’ are the ones holding women back. We can’t afford to wait until the female Jesus you could support arrives on the scene before entrusting the country to a mere woman.

    Sarah Palin has shown no indication of wanting to insert her religious beliefs in government. She’s even been quoted as saying Roe isn’t going anywhere. And at the very least, I feel she has my best interests at heart, contrasted with BO who I don’t feel does, well, we don’t know what the hell he really believes. She and John McCain are my Candidates Y. I feel this is our chance to get that ceiling shattered once and for all. If she screws up, we’ll probably reelect her just like GWB, but at least electing the next woman won’t be such a big freakin’ deal.

  • Bellevue_NW_Voter

    Absolutely. I voted for Doug Wilder in Virginia. I’ve voted for black mayors in two cities. I’ve voted for two female governors. It’s not about the skin color or the race or the gender. Those are as irrelevant to me as the color of someone’s hair.

    It’s the lack of experience, the disrespect shown to me as a supporter of another candidate and as a woman, the prevaricating about the flip-flopping, and the history of questionable associations that are my issues with Obama.

  • Bellevue_NW_Voter

    And some of us thought that Obama was an acceptable second choice if we couldn’t have Hillary, until we spent a couple weeks researching him in depth.

  • chicago4hillary

    The reason I’m voting for McCain/Palin.

    REFORM

    Both McCain and Palin have proven records of going against the system and their party.

    BHO has never gone against the Chicago corupt sytle of governing. I live in Chicago I know.If he was all
    about change,he would have tried to reform Chicago.

    We have to reform our federal government before we
    can even hope to get our country back on track.Abortion can not be the main issue at this time.

    The Democratic Congress not let roe be touched. remember the senate has to approve all judges.

  • Howard

    OBAMA = BETRAYAL
    Obama supporters are foolish to think that he will never betray them.
    Obama was a close friend of Pastor Wright for TWENTY YEARS.
    Obama threw Wright under the bus for personal ambition.
    McCain would not betray his country even after 5 years of torture.
    You can put lipstick on a traitor, but he’s still a traitor.

  • http://none donnal

    Take this from a older lady…we have had five Presidents that were not pro-choice…Nixon,Ford, Reagan, Bush & Bush.

    This would make at least 24 years of Presidents that have left this mess stand with Roe vs Wade…If it is over turned it would be years from now, and would go to the states to handle the right to choose.

    Don’t we have bigger problems here, with the markets and and our way of life to be so wrapped up with this one issue…get real. The right to choose is not going anywhere, our way of life may, as we know it may if we do not stand up and vote for McCain-Palin.

    Frankly, I am more worried about Obama’s change he is talking about when he says,”My friends we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world! I hope you’ll join with me as we try to change it.” Change to what?

  • http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/john-mccain-will-reform-washington-they-must-be-quivering-as-they-should-be/ John McCain will REFORM WASHINGTON (they must be quivering!)… as they should be… « Valentine Bonnaire

    [...] Roe v McCain » [...]

  • Barack “Community Organizer to the Hollywood Stars” Obama

    Human beings are spectacularly selfish. It cuts across party lines.

  • Doctor Barack “Community Organizer to the Hollywood Stars” Obama

    For you I prescribe Preparation H.

  • Doctor Barack “Community Organizer to the Hollywood Stars” Obama

    Talk about a puppet and a pawn.

    Talk about an ass attempting alliteration…

  • http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/19/ladies-if-you-didn%e2%80%99t-vote-for-hillary%e2%80%a6why-are-you-screaming-about-your-rights-now/ Ladies, If You Didn’t Vote For Hillary…Why Are You Screaming About Your Rights Now? : NO QUARTER

    [...] Roe v. Wade allows for lots of saber rattling by both sides every four years to keep the respective party faithful in line. As if women are one issue voters and have nothing else on their minds; as if we really think this issue is on the forefront of anyone’s Presidential agenda. Please see Texas Hill Country’s wonderful piece on Roe v. McCain. [...]

  • Mr. Natural

    they like Obama because of his votes

    Like his cowardly capitulation on FISA?

  • elise

    SFhillary, the question of legal abortions has never been introduced as an amendment to the Constitution and have you ever asked anyone why? It would be a simple, final solution to the question, but politicians from both political parties DO NOT WANT THE ISSUE TO BE SETTLED for the very simple reason Rove defined it as a “wedge” issue. Both parties have used it like the sword of Damocles over the heads of women. Conservative men have used it as a way of controlling wives, daughters and girlfriends. In other words, for the Democrats, it has been a political strategy to keep women going to the polls to vote the Party line. It worked pretty well for those of us who had experienced an illegal abortion or knew someone who had. Those who opposed it are the same men who opposed the “pill” on the grounds it would create a generation of women with sexual freedom and that would challenge their dominance in marriages and relationships. It has taken many long years for me to understand my vote was being extorted by Democrats in order to protect the right the Supreme Court (all men) had so generously bestowed on me to control my reproductive organs. To be something more than someones wife or mother or to be only that if I chose. I have had too many years of believing the lie it would all end under a Republican Administration. Now, I don’t care anymore. The majority of American women support choice, so let’s amend the Constitution and remove it from the political arena. Think about this; The ERA was defeated twice and the Democratic Party has made no effort in decades to introduce it again. I’m tired of this fight and it will never again determine my vote. That is true liberation.

  • http://texashillblog.wordpress.com Texas Hill Country

    actually, my law school would disagree with you on your assumption about my knowledge of the law….

  • http://texashillblog.wordpress.com Texas Hill Country

    did you totally miss the point of the article?

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