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The Right To Vote, The Right To An Education

Recently, the United States celebrated the 90th anniversary of women’s right to vote. That right was won by the significant efforts of a number of women, many of whom were jailed, beaten, and starved, fighting for this right. We honor them, and all that they have made possible for us 90 years later.

Now we have women governors, senators, representatives, and Secretaries of State. I can only imagine what out founding mothers would have thought of that, the joy, the excitement, the relief. No doubt, things have changed in this country for women. Not that women are treated as full equals yet in the United States. The sexism and misogyny evidenced by one of the two major political parties in 2008 made that abundantly clear. But things are better. We strive, still, for equal equal pay, for equal representation, for our first woman president, but there is no denying we are better off now than we were 90 years ago.

Indeed, our foremothers worked hard for this, as many of us have in the intervening years. But there are other countries, like Afghanistan, for example, where girls are in danger for merely trying to get an education. Yes, on Wednesday of this week, a girls’ school had poisonous gas spread throughout the school, sickening a number of the girls and teachers. Who would do such a thing? The Taliban would:

[snip] Wednesday’s incident follows a similar pattern seen in other recent attacks at girls’ schools involving an airborne substance which officials say could be some form of gas.

Those have raised fears that the Taliban and other allied groups who oppose female education are using a new method to scare them away from classes. [snip]


Wow. I scarcely know how to respond to this. It is despicable. And it is a pattern with the Taliban:

[snip] “This has happened a couple of times before, mainly in the northern province of Kunduz. At the time, it was also said, that these girls were poisoned and officials pointed the finger at the Taliban and rightly so,” she said.

“However, there is still no hard conclusion on who is behind this attack and what kind of poisoning is taking place.”

The Taliban banned education for girls during their Afghan rule from 1996-2001, but have condemned similar attacks in the past.

They have, however, set fire to dozens of schools, threatened teachers and even attacked schoolgirls in rural areas.

In one attack in Kandahar in 2008,around 15 girls and teachers were sprayed with acid by men on motorbikes.

In parts of southern and eastern Afghanistan, particularly in Taliban strongholds, schools for girls still remain closed. [snip] (Click HERE to read the rest.)

This attitude toward women and girls is a bitter pill to swallow. As is this headline from The Hill, “Sen. Kerry: ‘Very active’ efforts under way to reach settlement with Taliban.” What? How? Why? Kerry explains:

[snip]“I can report without being specific that there are efforts under way. They are serious, and I completely agree with that fundamental premise — and so does General [David] Petraeus and so does President Obama — there is no military solution,” he told NPR. “And there are very active efforts now to seek an appropriate kind of political settlement.”

U.S. officials have acknowledged that some sort of political settlement must be reached with the Taliban — a loosely affiliated group of Islamic insurgents that control large swaths of territory in Afghanistan — in order to bring an end to the almost nine-year-long U.S. war there.

The beginning of settlement negotiations represents a significant development in terms of Western involvement there…

Kerry said any “appropriate” settlement would have to include “a renunciation of al Qaeda,” a “reduction of violence,” a “recognition of the constitutional rights of both Pakistan and Afghanistan and greater efforts to reduce sanctuaries for insurgency.”[snip] (Click HERE to read the rest.)

And what about the women and girls, Senator Kerry? What about them, in your “negotiations” with terrorists? Yeah, I know – who gives a damn about them? They are just “casualties,” I suppose, necessary capitulations to this woman-hating group.

How it is Kerry, and Obama, think having active negotiations with the Taliban is a good thing? What are the chances, really, that, if they can even get some of these groups to come to the table, they will even keep their word should a compromise be reached?

And what about these women, these girls? The ones gassed by members of the Taliban to prevent them from learning? Or, the Taliban members who throw acid in the faces of these girls in an attempt to force them our of school? Oh, yeah – these sounds like just the kind of people with whom we should be engaging in “very active” negotiations. You know, since we are choosing to negotiate with terrorists in the first place.

I cannot help but be reminded of this powerful moment (again) of CJ Craig on “West Wing”:

Wow. Yep, that sounds a little too familiar…

Indeed, I am thankful, grateful, and humbled for the work our foremothers did to secure us the right to vote in this country. For the women who fought to make this possible: Susan B. Anthony, Alice Paul, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and all the other remarkable women who enabled for us to have this right, thank you.

May the young girls and women of Afghanistan one day be allowed to learn, to study, to be educated. And may they, one day, one day soon, be full participants in their country. Sadly, that day is not today.

One other note – almost 200 women and 4 boys were raped near a UN Peacekeepers camp in Congo. And what has the UN said about it? They’re looking into it. Well, it only happened three weeks ago, so you can see why it might take them a while to come out with any kind of statement. Right. Sec. Clinton spoke out about this atrocity, and you can read her remarks HERE, but this sums it up:

[snip]“Sexual violence harms more than its immediate victims. It denies and destroys our common dignity, it shreds the fabric that weaves us together as humans, it endangers families and communities, it erodes social and political stability, and it undermines economic progress. These travesties, committed with impunity against innocent civilians who play no role in armed conflict, hold us all back. [snip]

Amen to that.

  • Diana L. C. the Hazelnut Nut Thin Cracker

    Yes, RRRA–the more things change for some, the more they seem to stay the same for others.  I really, really wish I could find an article I read years ago in a History magazine.  It was written by a military person whose premise was that the world situation in regard to the military would not improved until all around the world things got better for women and girls.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    And what about the women and girls, Senator Kerry? What about them, in your “negotiations” with terrorists? Yeah, I know – who gives a damn about them? They are just “casualties,” I suppose, necessary capitulations to this woman-hating group.
    =====================
    This is where my head explodes, RRRA. Why do the leftists, who espouse rights on every front, continue to extoll the virtues of a religion that make women objects? This is a functional disconnect. I am at a loss for words.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    And what about the women and girls, Senator Kerry? What about them, in your “negotiations” with terrorists? Yeah, I know – who gives a damn about them? They are just “casualties,” I suppose, necessary capitulations to this woman-hating group. 
    ===================== 
    This is where my head explodes, RRRA. Why do the leftists, who espouse rights on every front, continue to extoll the virtues of a religion that makes women objects? This is a functional disconnect. I am at a loss for words.

  • Janis

    Silly Amy, you keep forgetting that we’re not people.  Typical girl, unable to grasp the obvious …

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Diana: I am waiting for the real women of the US to stand up and be counted. I am a man but I am a die-hard supporter of women’s rights. What puzzles me is that women, who make up the majority in this country, have not put their foot down. That One played both the race card and the misogynist card.Please put your foot down.

  • Diana L. C. the Hazelnut Nut Thin Cracker

    I do put it down as much as I can, but from my experience, women’s lives are often used up doing things for everyone else.  If there were a way for women to get the men really, really to do more around the house, caring for the children, the parents, the school organizaitons, the charities, the civic groups, etc., it would happen.  Women are stuck with the “little” things that need to be done and often, without their being done, much would not happen to make our lives better.

    I see more young men being the house husbands, so that’s encouraging..  For my Kiva giving, I always choose to donate to women’s groups.  Othen these are the groups building the economy in their countries. 

    I hate to say it, but the problems are the countries that have actual misogyny written in to their laws or unofficially written into their customs that need the real work to be done.  i believe that was the focus of the author’s concern.

    Here, I’m most angry at the so-called feminists who have chosen the “dark side” and want more to fit in with the men than to really stand up for women–let’s please not forget what happened in the primary and the GE, emboldened by the misogynist MSM.

  • justanotherhillbilly

    What I observed during the elex is that sexism and misogyny is not just a “male” thing.  That it was most often perpetrated by females. 

  • Diana L. C. the Hazelnut Nut Thin Cracker

    I remember teaching one year in a rural school in which my smallest class–seventh grade English–had four whole students.  My largest class–a combined junior/senior English class–had twelve students.

    My last class of the day was a beginning German class.  The BOYS were always missing because, since the school was so small, they often had to travel for several hours to get to their Friday games.  At one point these boys became angry when I called them “boys.”  They wanted to be called “men,” as their coach called them.  I told them I would, and then I started calling the girls “women.”  I think that ticked them off more than calling them “boys” did.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

     Women are stuck with the “little” things that need to be done and often, without their being done, much would not happen to make our lives better.
    ============================
    I understand. However, this is all the more reason to take the bull by the horns, as it were.

  • oowawa

    IMHO, in spite of what Senator Gooseslayer might advocate, we should not trust the Taliban.  They will not honor agreements made with infidels.  If they could, they would blow us all up like ancient Buddhist statues.  They are mean to little girls and treat women like domestic livestock.  They are not nice people.  We should not sit down and “bargain” with them.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    I remember the Buddhist statues. That was about 2 months before 9/11. I remember thinking something was amiss and how 8th century of them. But Dick Cheney wanted that pipeline that he never got. Wish in one hand….

    They are not nice people and we should give them the ultimatum they have so richly earned.

  • Katmoon

    I think the fact that women are still dehumanized in war and cultures, is a direct correlation to the whether or not a society or culture will ever advance to non-war stages. THe tribal mentality about women, has never served humans well. We are long beyond the days of needing to treat women different at any intellectual or employment level. The physical differences must be understood, and not translated into inability. Physical exeration of every human creates the need for rest, if the human is smaller (regardless of sex) more rest may be required. If a human carries another human inside them, they require a different physical understanding of that temporary, life giving, and strong system. There is more danger during that time to the female, and rest is required for a certain time after giving birth, it is called labor for a reason,it is a great deal of work. Our emotions are no more or less connected to our outward manifestations of personality than men.
    We are human beings, we are half of the species. We are not property. No government, no country has any right to have women under any man’s foot. It is digusting, that here in the United States, we still have to contend with our own issues of violence against women, adding what other cultures find acceptable, makes for a huge back step that has and will continue to have a profound effect on women of this country.
    There is no longer subjugation of anytype in the U.S. Constitution. I will die being beat to death before I will ever concur with anyone that we, as women do not have the same rights as every man does. It is out and out bigotry that has been pepetuated for centuries.

  • Diana

    I’ve got an idea: we send women soldiers– even men or we hire mercenaries to dress like women- bodies covered- and we arm them to the hilt. And when they encounter attacks on their personage by the Taliban, they f ing kill them. As in dead.

  • Katmoon

    I would do it in a heartbeat, Diana. I actually think I am bit more bloodthirsty in general, than Ferd. My daughter in law and I have had to have those discussions women, have over being alone and worries of rape, and also with small children. I have told her I would gladly act on her behalf, I am older and have no issue over life in prison or execution for protecting and avenging my family. God forbid. 

  • Diana

    “most often perpetrated by females.” Definitely disagree with that statement, but there were women who did act sexist and misogynistic. No doubt about that.

  • foxx

    The left has always been this way. They only give lip service to feminism when they think they can convince women to support one of their issues. The left is not feminist and never has been. Feminism is orthogonal to class and race struggles, which are about men competing with other men. Allocating resources to women is seen by the left as taking resources away from the male left.

    Feminism requires women to confront the males they have been raised with and taught (usually) to defer to. Class and race movements do not share this obstacle, families usually teach class and race solidarity.

  • Diana L. C. the Hazelnut Nut Thin Cracker

    Well, according to Robert Graves’s theory, most of our classic myths/stories came about because those very early societies were changing from matriarchies to patriarchies.  His two-volume set on the Greeek Myths explains how this great change created those macho myths.  Mary Renault then wrote a novel entitled The King Must Die after studying Graves’ theory, 

    Recently one of my New Age friends has tried to convince me that I need to do lots of grounding work to prepare myself for a great SHIFT in consciousness that will supposedly occur during the time period outlined–coincidentally–around the time of the end of the Mayan calendar.  It’s supposedly a shift for many from the three dimensional plane into a fourth dimensional plane or higher.  I read and I think and I wait.

    When George Lakoff, changing the old “frame” of Democrats being the nanny party and the Republicans being the strict father party, decided the Dems needed to be the good parents party, I became unglued.  How about the Democrats becoming the warrior women, wise women, goddess party?????  What would be wrong with that, I ask you?  He basically cut the mention of women out of his stupid theaory altogether.  (I always thought his ex-wife Robin Lakoff was a better, smarter linguistics scholar than he was–he’s a jerk, for sure.)

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Class and race movements do not share this obstacle, families usually teach class and race solidarity.
    ========================
    That doesn’t make sense. The woman is the heaart of the family, in fact the most important part. Class and race solidarity are non-sequiturs as they don’t matter with respect to the family unit. Now if you said the male figure….

  • Diana

    Katmoon, I don’t believe in violent aggression. I do believe in self defense. And the stranglehold these pos Taliban people have over the liberty and physical and emotional safety of these women makes me want to see the women unencumberedby these $&@’m! I think if the Taliban didn’t know who was going to smack them back and who was going to take the beating (cause they have no weapons) they might just back the hell off some.
    IOW, katmoon, I think we’re probably in agreement

  • Diana

    Sorry for that editing mess

  • Babs

    O/T, was just over at The Confluence, and they are bad-mouthing this blog because many on here oppose the building of the GZ mosque. They are rabid in their defense of it, brook no opposing thoughts, and are losing some regulars because of it. Jeez, who’d have thunk it?

  • TeakWoodKite
  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    I concur, Diana L. C.

    Patriarchal religions go completely against the grain. Gaia was the mother of all. We don’t call our planet Father earth but Mother Earth. This silly use of the masculine to represent “God” is completely backwards since men don’t give birth and therefore do not really create, except when with a woman.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    And early humans knew this, including the Celts.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    O/T, was just over at The Confluence, and they are bad-mouthing this blog because many on here oppose the building of the GZ mosque.
    ==============================
    Stupid is as stupid does. I wonder if they are looking forward to the newest in Burqas? It’s a mobile prison that they can color coordinate with their cell phones, I’m sure.

  • Katmoon

    Oh yes, The King Must Die; that was last summer’s reading from my father. Excellent reminder.

    Sometimes this issue for me is difficult in relation to other women who turn against women for a party or whatever the flavor of the moment is. I am fortunate in being raised as an equal. I attribute it to having a very grounded and understanding gay father, and two very strong Native grandmothers. I was always as capable and as smart, and my brothers were equally kind and loving. None of them are sexist, and have strong families. It took me longer; a young marriage that ended with a broken jaw, 16 teeth fractured at the gum line, and a knife to the groin. That was when I knew I needed to go, or someone would die very soon, and I did not intend for it to be me. It took years for me to get it through my head the men like my father and brothers seemed few and far between; yet I was looking for something that was not necessary-which was putting my happiness in the hands of another. I craved a healthy relationship, but would never be satisfied to be less than the Queen I know myself to be, and mostly benevolent. I also have reshaped my spritiual beliefs, from a strict Roman Catholic to an eclectic pantheist that requires a Mother to go along with the father in heaven business. This shift provdied the needed lessons to further my understanding and needs of my Anam Cara.

    Have you ever read any books by Lynn Andrews, (Medicine Woman) Diana? She really is quite good at taking the female myths a step further than Joseph Campbell(whom I adore). Her books are pure metaphor, but a good read, and ones I will buy friends who are just stepping into their female understanding.

    I also believe in the shift, and the natural progession toward having a clearer conception accepted and understood. I am fortunate that I do have a worthy mate in Ferd, who is my equal, my friend and my consort.

  • Babs

    I was just surprised at the venom coming from these supposedly educated people, following the “bigot” narrative and allowing no one an opposing view.

  • TeakWoodKite

    That CJ clip was brillaint. Thanks.

  • oowawa

    I’m sorry to hear this about the Confluence.  I’ve always admired that blog.  But this particular issue (the symbolism of the mosque at GZ) is a no-brainer to me.  Oh well!  Let the battle lines form . . .

  • Katmoon

    I believe in it as an end, a finality only. I think we do agree. I can tell by the editing your heart was moving fast and your mind was clear, it is not easy to get it all out on the keyboard. I am bloodthirsty in the sense, of how I would go about having to commit to the ultimate violence. Backed against a wall, to protect, or I would have to die trying. I am sickened by these reports of hundreds of rapes, yet again. I have no means anymore to comprhend a solution other than a final one, for these base things trying to pass as human beings who would create such harm, with the amount of horror they impose. You cannot fix this kind of cruelty.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Babs:

    Those pseudo-intellectuals have degrees in claptrap such as interpersonal communication, media relations, and hyphenated-American history. They don’t have a clue as to how things really work. They redefine words, call anyone who doesn’t agree uneducated, and pull the wool over the eyes of those who aren’t awake enough to understand that they’re being sold a pig in a poke. The Confluence is a cesspool of ignorance fed by morons who can’t make a living doing anything worthwhile.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Diana, Hillary Clinton said something along those lines (or your original comment) in her 1995 speech on human rights in China. She was spot on.

    Sounds like the author of this article was, too.  I would LOVE to see that article, though.  If you ever find  it, please let me know.

  • Katmoon

    You can break my body, but you can not break my mind!

    Closet Land

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    :-E   Dangit – I forgot again…Thanks for the reminder!

    Ferd, you are so right – women are supposed to just keep waiting for our turn.  But the thing is, our turn NEVER comes.

    And if anyone thinks these rights will be GIVEN to us, they are sadly mistaken.

  • Justine

    Orthogonal.  Interesting, Foxx.  I’ve looked up the definition of orthogonal, but don’t understand the context.  [Always learn something in NQ!!]
    .

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Dang, Katmoon – I wish I had an icon that was applauding, but know that is what I am doing.  Rock on!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Ohmygosh, I could write a thesis on that topic – of the patriarchal god “giving birth” – oh, wait.  I don’t have to – others have already done that.  But of course, the male god had to have that power since it was one so envied, so misunderstood with women…

    I read this really interesting book written by an MD abt what happened to goddess religions.  He realized while in Europe that many images of the goddess had disappeared, and he wanted to know why.  The name escapes me right now, though.  Basically, he traced it to the word becoming written, and the shifts that meant in how we use our brains.  Interesting book.

    Anyway – that was the ultimate subjugation – for men to claim the power of giving birth and take that away from women…

  • oowawa

    Hey sowsear!  Is that your little avatar? Welcome back!  You’ve been missed!

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Feminism is perpendicular to class and race struggles is the meaning of orthogonal here, Justine.

    I would surmise that feminism is above class and race and I would agree with that. I just don’t think that families teach class and race solidarity. Knothead males do that.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I am reminded of this great skit from the Kathy and Mo Show:

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Sows, you heard oowawas call? Good to see you.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    LOL oowawa! AGAIN!!

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Thank you, RRRA.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Certainly, Teak – I think it is so powerful, and so striking when you think of all the countries with whom we do business who treat their women so horribly…

  • Katmoon

    ROFl, I thought it might be the one about the peasant farmer women. Nice to see them again!

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

     But this particular issue (the symbolism of the mosque at GZ) is a no-brainer to me.  Oh well!  Let the battle lines form . . .
    ==================
    Is this the scene where they shoot themselves in both feet to prove a point?

  • Crackerjack -Obamastahn Rebel Resistance

    Our only purpose it to keep the one eyed worm happy and spit out more one eyed worms. 

  • Hope

    Can you even think of what would happen if a group of Christians terrorist blew up a building in the name of Jesus and killed mostly muslims and than a Christian group wanted to build a church on the grounds near the killing field? the same people calling us racist would go nuts the Chris Matthews of life

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Oofdah, Crackerjack. I’ve got to get the brain bleach from the cupboard now. Wow.

  • carol haka, Matzo

    Yeah.  I left the first time when RD congratulated Obama for being the 1st Black President.  I equate that to congratulating a rapist that he is going to be a Daddy.

    I tried going back, but I genuinely despise people who pretend to be feminist’s and the best they can do is offer “abortion” up as the “definition” and cure all.  It was met with “well, what if you might get a promotion at work, but you are pregnant, so you should have the right for a late-term abortion” if you want one.  Hummmmmmmmm, killing my baby or the corner office. (I admit it is merky when the child is going to suffer a deformity or rape is involved.) 

    And, don’t get me started on their irrational hatred of Sarah Palin …..

    Still blaming Bush and the Republicans for the Mortgage crisis is a common ignorant theme.  Yes, they didn’t put a stop to the lending free for all, but they didn’t start it and Dodd, Franks and  others propagated it through complete fraud.

    Finally, I went to look.  No acknowledgement that the landing gear of one of the planes landed in the building.  Not to mention, I am sure plenty of “human dust” is probably in that building.  Or, how about the bullshit lies about the funding.

    If God, also a no-no, had wanted us to leave feelings out of every decision we make, he would not have given up the empathy to procede with.

    The intolerance for the intolerant is frankly, intolerant.

    The Constitutional Rights of one person ends where the Constitutional Rights of another begins.

    And besides that, they stole my emoticon!

    >:o

  • Hope

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12280813/

    From the Cockpit from Flight 93 have they forgotten? I havent

  • Daisy Mae 5 Grain Cwisp Cwacker

    Yes, the Confluence thread is rigid and intolerant, a fall back position for women to amen the sanctimonious self-satisfiedness of a libby PC, multi-cultural position.  They refuge in the “constitutionality,” but miss the point of the mosque issue(s), and the refuge is filled with smarmy.  Disappointing.

  • oowawa

    Really . . . Suddenly I’m not feeling very romantic . . .

  • felizarte

    Kerry is simply auditioning for the SOS job.  I wonder if he has heard rumblings about the Zero group complaining about Hillary.  Kerry wants to show that there is a way out of Afghanistan:  a way to declare victory/mission accomplished and give up on the people.  He has no regard for what happens, least of all to the women.  They can all go on and live like they did before 9/11.

    Feminists on the left are quite absurd.  They declare themselves as pro-choice as long as you only choose abortion.  That’s why they hate Sarah Palin so much.  Probably even more so now that she has shown some clout.

  • sybilll

    John Kerry can pound sand.  Neda went into the streets of Iran to protest a bogus “election”, and was killed in cold blood.  Sans a brief acknowledgement of her brutal murder, weeks later by Obama, this administration continues to harbor some irrational fondness for countries that condone treating women as sub-human.  F them all, I find it appalling. 

  • felizarte

    Nowhere in the Bible is there a declaration that God is male or female; although “Father” and “he” is used all throughout.  As a matter of fact, somewhere in Isaiah is a passage about God opening his arms to bare his/her breast to those he has ‘amen-ed.’  

  • felizarte

    Here, children and pets that are abused by the parents are removed from that abusive environment.  Perhaps, Afghan women can be removed from that country and let’s see how the men survive.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    The Confluence turned south (and not in a good way) over a year ago. They are not nice people.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Rev. Amy—I tell you one thing, our foremothers would be so proud of your vigilance.
    Your passion for justice keeps us hopeful!

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    you heard oowawas call?

    And a little bunny wabbit shall lead them…… :)

  • carol haka, Matzo

    Oh yeah, my favorite – if we aren’t NY’ers, it’s none of our business.

    Oh pray tell assholes.  I have PTSD, have paid for the Wars, and every other cost involved with the take down of the brave souls on that day.

    Do not tell me 9/11 and everyday since then is none of my business.  I will be glad to punch your lights out.

    >:o

  • TeakWoodKite

    Rev. Amy regarding that clip from CJ…
     over at the Daily Beast, Alan M. Dershowitz penned a book review, “The Arab Lobby: The Invisible Alliance That Undermines America’s Interests in the Middle East by Mitchell Bard.

    The methodology employed by the Arab lobby is thus totally inconsistent with democratic governance, because it does not reflect the will of the people but rather the corruption of the elite, while the Israeli lobby seems to operate within the parameters of democratic processes. Yet so much has been written about the allegedly corrosive nature of the Israeli lobby, while the powerful Arab lobby has widely escaped scrutiny and criticism. This important book thus contributes to the open marketplace of ideas by illuminating the dark side of the massive and largely undemocratic Arab lobbying efforts to influence American policy with regard to the Middle East.

    This POTUS bows and kisses the ring of the Saudi King. While history makes a fool of those who would expect to negotiate with life forms that live in a the 7th century to bare fruit,  I think CJ had it right.

  • sybilll

    Though that is a gut wrenchingly painful reminder, thank you. 

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Rev. Amy—re: books…I have a first edition The Subjection of Women by John Stuart Mill that I cherish. If we ever have a fire, that will be the third thing I’ll grab, right after hubby and the dog!

  • Peggy Sue

    I expressed an opposing pov on the mosque the other day at The Confluence.  No one threw me off or bad mouthed me.  They didn’t agree but frankly when everyone agrees about every issue, I begin to get squirmy.  Now, I did express my misgivings at the comments about Muslims in general, which I think are ugly and go way over the top. In my estimation, this is being fueled by the Right.  But the Left gets no stars from me with the insistence that anyone and everyone questioning the appropriateness of the location or inquiring as to the funding is automatically labeled a bigot.

    Sorry, there are plenty of nice people at The Confluence.  Smart, too.  Their columns are well worth the read.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    felizarte—-great comment. I agree about Kerry and about lefty feminists being absurd!
    I would say that feminism ain’t no place for sissies! And that’s what they are: sissies.  A sissy is a person who’s afraid someone who is perceived to be bigger and stronger might hurt them.
    Most lefty women I know can’t wait to get up in the mornin’ and figure out how they can please all of the men in their lives, while acting like they give a shit about women’s issues!
    Don’t get me started—oops! Too late!

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    oowawa—-just caught on: “Sen. Gooseslayer” LOL!!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Oh, wow, Cindy – that is incredible!  I was a Philosophy major in college, so I read a good bit of JS Mill.  So neat!

  • Peggy Sue

    Trust me, Carol.  RD is no Obama fan.  You obviously haven’t read too many of her essays.  They are [as I am] avid Hillary Clinton supporters.  The fact that they’re not Palin supporters shouldn’t be a huge surprise.  It’s a solidly Dem site.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    It’s been said numerous times, abt the Carmelite nuns wanting to build a convent near Auschwitz, but did not when concerns were raised (I believe the Pope weighed in, too).  They accepted the decision, and changed their plans.  End of story.

    Your example is a good one – no one would stand for that. 

    Of course, people of good conscience can disagre on this issue.  I think we can all do without the bitterness, animosity, and demonizing on both sides.  People who don’t want it built there are not bigots, though.  I just don’t understand this willingness to completely ignore one of the worst moments on our soil.  But that’s just me.

    And then there are the women (to come back to the post).  Sharia Law is not exactly embracing of feminism, is it?

    Okay – tired, going to bed.  Night, all!

  • oowawa

    It’s kind of like a hostage situation where the abusive man of the house is holding his wife and children as hostages.  How do you deal with it?  You can walk away and deny the situation exists.  You can try to take him out without harming the hostages.  You can try to make a deal with the asshole . . .

  • carol haka, Matzo

    I’ve read it for most of 2 years.

    While they complain about Obama, they still haven’t become enlightened with blatant facts.

    >:o

  • carol haka, Matzo

    Don’t look now but,

    Huffington Post has in gigantic letters:

    Krugman:  This is no recovery.

    Duhhhhhhhhh, thanks for catching up Paulie.

    >:o

  • oowawa

    Peggy Sue, in the past, I’ve read wonderful columns from River Daughter.  I generally don’t go to that site anymore.  I don’t want them to come between me and the objects of my anger.  The Dems?  That ship has sailed.  Maybe it’ll come back someday, but I’m not on it anymore, and I really believe they have to sink, all hands lost, before we can think of building another ship.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Rev. Amy—and so neat that you were a phil. major! I’m not surprised.

    Mill supposedly had an IQ so great that it could not be measured…And to that I say hell yes he did, ’cause he thought women were equal to men! :)

    P.S…… On the 75th Anniversary of Women’s Suffrage, Ann Richards and a bunch of us marched through downtown Austin…It was a blast.
    I think most of us had quit drinking by that time, but we still had fun.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Peggy Sue—I’m sure there are some nice people at the Confluence, but they were not nice to me, hence my remark. They were not nice to me on more than one occasion….and the not niceness was so vitriolic it scared me.
    IMO, the Confluence is a clique gone bad.

  • Fred

    Well here’s the thing:

    The Human Rights NGOs, UN types, and lawyers haven’t accomplshed a damn thing with regards to Wahhabis, the Taliban, or al Qaida.

    In fact they have only made the job of dealing with such thugs harder.

    Maybe they should admit their miserable failures, step aside, and leave this to professionals like United States Marines.

  • oowawa

    “Mill supposedly had an IQ so great that it could not be measured…”

    Wow!  Just like . . . oh no–I can’t even complete the sentence . . .

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    oowawa—-you are so damn funny!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    LOL oowawa I know the feeling some days! =-O

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Wow!  Just like . . . oh no–I can’t even complete the sentence . . .

    LOL oowawa I know the feeling some days! =-O

  • Babs

    Teak, I think Dershowitz wrote the book.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Knothead males do that.

    Aye, Ferd, and a fine, fine job at that! :)

  • lorac

    Amy, was it The alphabet vs. the goddess:  The conflict between word and image, by Leonard Shlain?  I really like that book.

  • TeakWoodKite
  • econsmed

    off topic – a ‘hello’ and ‘F You’ to Barry from Ruthie

  • lorac

    I don’t go there often, but I’ve seen them call the bots “wingers” – as if a bunch of socialists, as they are, aren’t wingers.  Always makes me laugh.

    They supported Hillary and they were called racists, but the first thing they did when people opposed the mosque was to call THEM racists.

  • sowsear

    Yes, I always liked that poem about Lot’s Wife…she looked back because her life was there…all of the little things.

  • EllenD

    Please put your foot down.

    Oh gosh, Ferd, there are so many places I’d like my foot to go.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    the first thing they did when people opposed the mosque was to call THEM racists.

    lorac—Bingo, kiddo! Don’t ya love the hypocrisy?

    They really should re-name it “The Confoundence”.

  • EllenD

    If there were a way for women to get the men really, really to do more around the house,

    Here is the advice I gave my daughter since I have had two husbands who were complete opposites.
    When you are first married, ask your husband what bugs him the most around the house (my first husband hated dirty dishes in the sink).
    When you find out what it is, HE gets to do that chore and you take something else, then you divide up the rest.
    If you are responsible for the chore that he is wacko about, he will drive you crazy.

  • EllenD

    Absolutely right felizarte. I am prochoice but so many others aren’t.
    They say they are – as long as they like your choice.

  • EllenD

    Our emotions are no more or less connected to our outward manifestations of personality than men. 

    Terrific Katmoon!

  • EllenD

    I thought that was just a creative way to show your convictions, Diana. ;)

  • kafir

    Hi Ms RRRA,
     
    Obama could only understand 

    The Right To Vote, The Right To An Education” if the message is conveyed to Obama in Arabic language.
     

  • kafir

    Hi Ms RRRA, 
    Obama could only understand ”The Right To Vote, The Right To Education” if the message is conveyed to Obama in Arabic language. 

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Katmoon—-You write so beautifully, even when writing about heinous acts against you and against others. That is a gift!

  • felizarte

    I am reminded of St. Thecla.  She was an able assistant of St. Paul; went around with him to the various churches; like Paul she believed in celibacy.  Many Roman wives were influenced by her and they began withholding their “wifely obligations” from their husbands, many of whom were high Roman officials.  Thecla was condemned to die twice:  once by burning at the stake which was aborted by a fortuitous thundershower that put out the fire; the second to be devoured by lions.  Legeng says, the female lions encircled her and protected her from the male lions and again she was spared to the cheers of the spectators.  Ah! the ongoing struggles!

  • felizarte

    Lorena Babbit could give a seminar to those women.

  • felizarte

    I do like RD’s essays.  But she doesn’t write as much anymore. I used to go there often but somehow, I felt there was a “club” and I didn’t know how one gets to belong.

    I am so glad to find NQ.  The posts are informative, provocative and great for discussion.  And I like the fact that the posters, RRRA, Larry, BH and LD find time to interact with the commenters.

  • kafir

    Yes! Islam is a religion of ‘peace’!!!
    No Mosque at Ground Zero and Sharia Law in the US!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhaBSPGBXco&feature=related

  • candymarl red bone cracker

    When my husband really, uh, upsets me I smile sweetly and say one thing:

    I subcribe to the Lorena Bobbitt school of surgery.

    Works wonders! ;)

  • candymarl red bone cracker

    When my husband upsets me I smile sweetly and say one thing:

    I subscribe to the Lorena Bobbitt school of surgery.  Works wonders! ;)

  • Katmoon

    felizarte, I agree; it is those pesky interpretations presented over and over again, at mass, church, sunday school~declaring “God the Father”.

  • Katmoon

    Well said Oowawa, I was thinking along those lines, but just couldn’t put it together sensibly.

  • Katmoon

    Thank you Cindy; I try, but I also am such a doggone smart a$$ sometimes. I am working at trying to take in what the article is, and the comments so I am responding with some thought. As long as that little smart a$$ inside me gets fed from time to time(through sarcasm, or a little rough and tumble debate) I seem to have longer moments of topic clarity. :-P  

  • Diana L. C. Hazelut Nut Thin Cracker

    I thought perhaps RRRA was thinking of this book also.  It is a great book. 

    So now I’m thinking of other books and about women that have helped me think about the status of women.

    Don’t forget to read about Mary Shelley’s mother also–Mary Wollstonecraft. 

     And I always think also about Louisa May Alcott.  Her father was Bronson Alcott, who in his day was as well known as RW Emerson; her mother was Abigail Alcoot who was involved in the movements for the rights of women and Blacks.  Louisa May wrote a biting satire about Bronson’s little effort at a Utopia.  It was called Transcendental Wild Oats.  It was about how the women on this experimental commune ended up doing all the backbreaking work while the men got to sit around and talk philosophy.  Louisa May wrote most of her famous stuff–i.e., Little Women  and the like–in order to support her mother, herself and her sisters.  But her heart was in writing essays, etc., largely about the plight of women.

    And then, since I brought up religion (myths), I always think about Julian of Norwich.  Her meditations on Christ in the womb of Mary were so helpful to me.  I had a great father, so I could accept “God the Father,” but I needed the female presence in religion.  In that regard I give the Catholics much credit because of their elevation of Mary.

    And there is also Hildegard of Bingen, Margery Kempe–and then of course a favorite fictional “liberated” female–the Wife of Bath.

    I have always loved Gertrude Stein, Kate Chopin, Flannery O’ Connor — but I could go on forever about the women writers.

    My favorite of all times, however, has always been the “crazy” daughter of Priam–Cassandra.  It is what men do to us–make us SEEM crazy.

  • Diana L. C. Hazelut Nut Thin Cracker

    I’ll look for Lynn Andrews–but now you reminded me of a little book I was given as a “thank you” by a student.  It’s entitled Whispered Wisdom: Portraits of Grandmother Earth, by Mary Summer Rain  It was such a thoughtful gift from a great female student/friend.

  • kafir

    Imagine there is no Islam in America or on this planet earth, I wonder if America or the world could live inpeace?

    Imagine- John Lennon, truly missed by earth people!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7VTjE81N5Y&feature=related

  • kafir

    Imagine if there is no Islam in America, I wonder if America could be more peaceful?  

     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7VTjE81N5Y&feature=related

  • Diana L. C. Hazelut Nut Thin Cracker

    And what I don’t understand about feminists who think abortion is the most important issue facing feminism is this:  they will always question Catholics who run for office about their stance on abortion and whether or not they will take the Pope’s decisions or the Church doctrine over the law.  (This was a big issue for some in our last governor’s race since our current governor is a staunch Catholic.)   But dare we question Muslims–followers of the Islamic tradition–about their stance on Shariah law and on whether they will take the words of the imans over that of the law???  We question Christian fundamentalist politicians all the time about their stance on gay and lesbian–and abortion issues.  But do we question Muslims about their stance on gay and lesbian issues without being bigots?  (And this brings to mind something I’ve learned from having a daughter-in-law raised in a Muslim country.  I’m not sure if it’s common in other Muslim countries, but in Turkey, having abortions just because you can’t afford more children seems to be something that no one thinks twice about.) 

    We can and should always question a religious groups’ intentions in regard to our own cultural beliefs and especially in regard to their allegiance to our laws if they want to become citizens.

  • kafir

    This will be good to subscribe to Lorena Bobbitt school of surgery, especially in application to  the Muslims… it’s a good way to retard the rate of production of Islamic babies in America!

  • kafir

    Just get the coordinations, press a few buttons, voilla, problems solved.

  • Katmoon

    Thank you Diana L.C., you have given me a reading list. I appreciate it.

    I had a great father, so I could accept “God the Father,” but I needed the female presence in religion.  In that regard I give the Catholics much credit because of their elevation of Mary.

    I have a similar experience; having Mary as a representation for me was very empowering as a young Catholic. I have since encorporated her into my personal group that satisfy my spiritual needs; as well as Jesus and other male representations that work for me.

  • jbjd

    CWB/OOfD, now, take that empowered fervor and, arm in arm with your fellow goddesses, march on Austin, please, and tell your AG, Greg Abbott, to investigate chages filed by hundreds of your fellow citizens that Boyd Richie, Chair of the Texas Democratic Party, committed election fraud by swearing to TX election officials that candidate BO was Constitutionally eligible for the job of POTUS, to get them to print his name on the ballot; but refuses to produce any documentaary evidence that was the basis for his Certification.  (And have in hand citizen complaints signed by each of you, which you can download from the sidebar of my blog!  And bring the press!)

  • Katmoon

    We can and should always question a religious groups’ intentions in regard to our own cultural beliefs and especially in regard to their allegiance to our laws if they want to become citizens.

    Exactly.

    IMHO this is what the first amendment portion which deals with religious freedom is trying to pinpoint. As long as religion remains private and does not interfere with law, all is well; one can practice their faith without recrimination provided it is not a faith based in illegal acts. One is also free to not practice any religion nor perpetuate crimes against others who do practice a faith.
     Religious edict has the force of law within the scope of the religion itself, but not in civil law. I think there is confusion on the part of those new future citizens, or maybe I am wrong. It is  and always has been my understanding that the edicts are applied to the faith in order to give a framework for one to be a “good” ______________(fill in the blank). However they do not automatically transcribe over into legislated law to be followed by citizens. Our system does not allow itself to legislate within the scope of a particular faith, legislation has to equally represent all citizens, it is up to the religion to keep itself within the boundries of established law. Being part of a religion is a choice, being an American is either accomplished by birth or obtaining citizenship; one is circumstance and the other choice. Regardless of how we arrive at being American, it has awlays been my understanding that we the people have a sturdy foundation in the Constitution; which is not part of any faith, but does protect the right of faiths to practice within the scope of the laws. Pologamy within the scope of a religious practice, was and is largely ignored as a crime, until there is documented abuse of minors. The very fight over abortion and womens rights has gone on for decades I think because of the entanglement with religion. Again it does not become a legal issue until we see abuses on either side of the issue, such as forced births, murdering of physicians, or morning after pills given to very young minors without parental knowledge or consent.

    We can evaluate at a personal level how we feel about religion or various faiths, and in our personal lives either choose to participate or ignore religion. However when one is told there is bigotry for finding a particular faith distasteful, we must question why we are expected to uphold the right to practice a faith that for all appearances sake does not operate within the scope of the law; we do not as a whole allow for the open brutality towards women, gays or any other group. I believe if these edicts were followed under another faith say Baptist, we would hear “HATE CRIMES”, shouted from the rooftops.   

  • jbjd

    PS, they banned me after I pointed out the fact, no documentary evidence available in the public record establishes BO is a C, let alone NB. 

  • jbjd

    felizarte said, “And I like the fact that the posters, RRRA, Larry, BH and LD find time to interact with the commenters.”

    That’s why from now on, I only cross-post my articles on NQ the day AFTER I post on my blog!  Just responding to readers’ comments here is like writing 2 or 3 more articles!  (And if you have read my blog, you know, the interaction with readers is my stock in trade!)

  • Katmoon

    Seriously, you were banned? I am sorry to hear that, jbjd, I can’t imagine you being banned from anywhere, your writing isn’t offensive in any way.

     I do not know how things are over at the Confluence, as I have not been there for quite sometime, I think right up to the Presidential election, then I ventured out to other sites to see what was being written. Just didn’t go back.

  • Diana L. C. Hazelut Nut Thin Cracker

    So–if your couldn’t tell–I couldn’t sleep after the cat woke me at 2:30.  I posted a few things, did some things around the kictcen, made a small breakfast, and started to read the morning paper after I heard it hit the driveway. 

    Here’s the first thing that caught my eye: 

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-24/sex-harassment-at-work-gets-weirder-scarier-commentary-by-susan-antilla.html

  • elizabethrc

    Used up is a good way to describe the priorities for most womens’ lives.  I remember the shock I experienced when, upon asking my mother, who had been married for 35 years and then widowed, if she would ever get married again.  This quiet, respectful lady quietly said, “No, I served my time”.
    I decided that was not the epitaph I wanted on my gravestone and satisfyingly divorced for decades now, I glory in making my own mistakes and correcting those mistakes, all on my own.  My life might not be filled with wealth, but it is filled with independence, something to be cherished after years of having given it away.
    As an aside, I have to ask, with all the furor surrounding the equal rights arguments concerning the mosque in NYC, do we want to disregard the rights of women in this country in order to allow Islam to grow here, given their deplorable treatment of females?

  • Katmoon

    Weird is mild for what I would call it; these are assaults, and what is with that water thing, so disgusting! =-O

  • Crackerjack -Obamastahn Rebel Resistance

    Their too busy slapping us down for our “human rights violations”

  • ProudMilitaryMom

    Great post and excellent comments as well!
    Could not help but wonder what Kerry will think when the Taliban uses that gas against our troops? Did not Sadaam use gas against the Kurds? What makes Kerry think they will stop at using it only on women and girls? Idiot!

  • elizabethrc

    Ferd, you DO have a way with words!

  • elizabethrc

    I’ve always wondered who it is who has ‘the right’ to ‘give’ us anything.  It is  our right and no one else’s to take what makes us equal, it is not a gift to be given by another.

  • justanotherhillbilly
  • kenoshamarge

    My head also explodes at the rank hypocrisy of the left.

    Then I wonder, as always, why so many women support the left. What have they done for us? Have they, in the six damn years they’ve controlled congress passed the ERA?

    Have they with all their self-rightious prattle actually done anything to  condemn the rampant misogny in their own party? Have women on made their support for either party conditional upon that party being the one that does the most to make sure that women are treated as full and equal citizens?

     And shouldn’t we also insist that every other country that our taxpayer dollars is distribulated to also support equal rights for women?

    When these things are done perhaps I will support one party rather than the other. For now, and from my observations at this time, I will remain a fervent Independent who regards both parties with a jaundiced eye and most feminists, aka female liberals, as simply political hacks, a subspecies of humanity for which I have no use.

  • creeper

    Tell me again, oh trolls, about that “small number of radical Muslims” who are giving Islam such a bad name.  Tell me how peace-loving the Taliban is.  Tell me how much they care for their female children.  Tell me how sympathetic and supportive they are of rape victims. 

    That crap about a “small minority of radical Muslims” is just that…crap.

  • Crackerjack -Obamastahn Rebel Resistance

    Of course it’s going up.  with jobs so scarce sutting your mouth is a form of survival.  Obama being mysoginst in cheif doesn’t help either.

  • kenoshamarge

    I think the fact that she is also out there do what she can to elect more females, when she considers then the better candidate, also drives them nuts. She’s done more for women as a private citizen than Oblahblah with all his blahblahing has. For that she will never be forgiven by the left.

    That and the fact that every-time they and the Obamamedia knock her down she gets up again. An unforgivable act for a female but especially for a conservative females. They are supposed to be walking one step behind the man of the house. At least that’s the liberal perception of what it means to be a conservative woman.

  • Sassy

    Each journey begins with the first step, and Afghanistan’s will likely take longer than ninety years.
    Greg Morgenson, author of “Three Cups Of Tea”, is the remarkable American who was aided by villagers after falling ill, and has continued to raise money and build schools in Afghanistan.
    In a recent firefight, Afghani soldiers could not read maps to call in supporting U.S. airstrikes.
    Afghanistan’s last opportunity may be slipping away, as our troops withdraw.
    We may be grateful for the lack of media coverage once Taliban and Al Qaeda retributions begin.

  • kenoshamarge

    Doing the applauding for both of us RRRA.

  • justanotherhillbilly

    “Clinton’s longer hairdo makes a fashion statement.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2010/08/26/GA2010082604093.html

  • jbjd

    R3A, from the “Jewishvirtuallibrary”:


    Shortly thereafter the Vatican spoke out for the first time, supporting the relocation of the convent in order to restore good relations with the Jews, and even expressed its willingness to contribute financially to the project. Cardinal Glemp, who was then visiting England, executed a volte-face and two days after delivering a speech calling the agreement “a form of wishful thinking,” he wrote a letter (the Vatican statement had appeared in the meanwhile) stating that the convent should be moved as soon as possible. With this the crisis was defused.
    Although the original deadline for the new complex, set in 1990, proved overly optimistic, work progressed on the interfaith center and the convent, which was ready in 1993. Nevertheless the nuns continued to be reluctant to leave the old building, and this was only accomplished in the summer of 1993 following a letter from the pope and pressure from the Polish Bishops’ Conference. Seven of the 14 nuns agreed to move to the new convent, the others going elsewhere. Jewish-Catholic relations returned to normal and the dialogue was resumed. In particular Jews were encouraged by the understanding that had been evinced towards Jewish sensibilities by many Catholic quarters.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0002_0_01611.html

    See, in that case, too, anti-religion (Catholicism) wasn’t the issue underlying the request to move the convent.  (How could it be, when the Catholic Pope spearheaded the request to vacate, even offering to fund the relocation?) Rather, the issue was  appreciating the hurt feelings of the victims of the atrocities committed on (or near) the ground on which the proponents of the structure had determined to build.

  • kenoshamarge

    I deleted “The Confluence” from my favorites list some time ago because of their ideology. If you aren’t part of their “groupthink” you are not welcome. I wasn’t and I simply left because I found them profoundly boring.

    Stopped in recently and there was one of their “writers” chuckling about Al Franken making faces and generally acting like an ass while Mitch McConnell was speaking. I don’t like Mitch McConnell any more than the chuckling writer does. I just don’t like “Senators’ that sit in the Senate and act like silly little boys. Just one example of partisanship that allows people who usually have character and common sense to lose both.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Greg Morgenson, author of “Three Cups Of Tea”, is the remarkable American who was aided by villagers after falling ill, and has continued to raise money and build schools in Afghanistan.
     
    Great book Sassy, glad you mentioned it. Add it to your list everyone, it is a passionate heart wrenching read!!!
     
    Three Cups of Tea is one of the most remarkable adventure stories of our time. Greg Mortenson’s dangerous and difficult quest to build schools in the wildest parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan is not only a thrilling read, it’s proof that one ordinary person, with the right combination of character and determination, really can change the world.” –
     
    If only we would take time out and listen to each other? Maybe it could start today!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Greg Morgenson, author of “Three Cups Of Tea”, is the remarkable American who was aided by villagers after falling ill, and has continued to raise money and build schools in Afghanistan.
     
    Great book Sassy, glad you mentioned it. Add it to your list everyone, it is a passionate heart wrenching read!!!
     
    Three Cups of Tea is one of the most remarkable adventure stories of our time. Greg Mortenson’s dangerous and difficult quest to build schools in the wildest parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan is not only a thrilling read, it’s proof that one ordinary person, with the right combination of character and determination, really can change the world.” –
     
    If only we would take time out and listen to each other? Maybe it could start today!

  • justanotherhillbilly

    Where’s the Line?  Is the title of this video.  Very powerful.

  • Noogan
  • Katmoon

    I know, it is horrible to see war covered, but I believe the amount of coverage always provides such a strong example providing the opportunity to acquire a genuine distaste for it. Further it keeps us informed, provided the media is truly reporting, not looking for a gotchya story against a military commander or soldier. BecauseI am part of an active duty family, I am able to get the information first hand, but cannot and will not share it. I will have to look into Greg Morgenson’s book,  I know there are very real people who are not part of any group, just trying to survive.

  • Noogan

    According to your argument, every Muslim is a terrorist determined to to kill “infidels.” It is simply not the case, and you are misprepresenting a religion with such blatant bigotry. Broad generalizations, misrepresentations, and sweeping smears can cut both ways. If we make your claims, others can make the same sweeping misprepresentations about us, for the same specious reasons: Their arguments would be just as wrong, but when things like this happen, you can see how inflammatory rhetoric could create the same bigotry you have just expressed. Are these soldiers representative of our country, or our entire military? No. But your argument makes the case that they are, if a small number represents the majority: 

    From the Seattle Times [tiny url used]: 

    Army: Soldiers plotted to kill Afghan civilians: Gibbs formed what one called a “kill team” to randomly execute Afghan civilians while on patrol, the documents said. No motive was discussed.
    http://bit.ly/c4qgcj

  • EllenD

    Right on, Elizabeth.

  • Sassy

    Five years ago, Imam Rauf said that U.S. sanctions, not Saddam Hussein, killed 500,000 Iraqi children by depriving them of food and medicine.
    A New York waiter establishes SOHO Properties, pays 5 million in cash for the site of the proposed mosque, and makes a 5 million down payment on another 45 million dollar property.
    He sure gave someone excellent service! Who?

  • FLDemFem

    I was raised with the idea that women are as good as men, and better in many ways. The women in my family have gone to college for generations, my grandmother graduated from Bryn Mawr with a degree in economics. Her first cousin held the first university chair held by a woman in the US. Chair of Philosophy at the University of Florida in Tallahassee. The chair is now named for her. So the idea that men are superior was never raised in our house. It never occurred to me that men were in any way better than I was and I knew they had weaknesses that I don’t. Weaknesses I have no trouble taking advantage of when necessary. In a fight, the first thing I do is aim a hard kick at the crotch, then when they go down, I stomp on them. Few men get in a fight with me after hearing that. I am a fierce bitch when I have to be, and I don’t worry about fighting fair, I fight to win. And I do.

    And having read this thread and its comments, I decided to share a couple of my own experiences in the workplace, the race track. When I first went to work on the track, I worked for a woman trainer, the wife of a big time trainer in NY. She ran the farm division on a training center in VA. I started out as a hotwalker, and within 8 months was the head exercise rider and shedrow foreman. When I went on to work for another trainer who didn’t like to hire women because of a bad experience with one..she had lost her temper with another groom and stabbed his radio to pieces with a pitchfork…I assured him that I was not that sort of person. I didn’t use pitchforks on anything but manure, straw and hay. So then I was given three large stallions to rub, ie. groom. I think they thought the studs would be too much for me to handle, but they weren’t. They behaved much better for me than they did for the guys. Why?? Stallions are territorial..they don’t like other males, of any kind, in their territory. On the track, the stall is their territory. So the stallions were fine with me, a female, coming into their territory, but not so much the males. I never told the trainer this..hehehe. He still thinks it’s because I was a great groom, which I was. At a later job, I was challenged by a group of grooms who resented that I was shedrow foreman and head rider when they thought it should go to a man. I happened to be wearing benwa balls that day, for my own pleasure while working, so I looked the leader in the eye, he was a macho type, and said, “Hey, kid, I have brass ones, don’t fool with me, I will outdo you every time in every way!! On the horse, or on the ground!!” So little Mr. Stupid says, “Oh, yeah? let’s see them!!” So I reached down my pants, got out the benwa balls and rolled them up to my waist and pulled them out, presented them on the palm of my hand, right under his nose..two big brass balls, nice and shiny. Then I looked him right in the eye and said, “Now, let’s see yours!!” The grooms grinned from ear to ear, then cracked up, and the leader looked like he wished he were elsewhere. That was the end of the idea that I wasn’t “good enough” to run the shedrow or be the head rider. After that, the grooms bragged all over the track that “the lady boss has brass ones!!” And I do. I was raised with the idea that not only am I as good as a man, I am better than most of them. And according to my doctor, I am. When on the track, I could hold horses that bigger men couldn’t..why? I have the advantage of the extra muscle down the inside of my thigh, and the extra abdominal, hip and stronger back muscles given for carrying babies. (I never told them that, I just let them think it was pure skill and great hands..hehehe.) They also work for holding a hard-pulling horse, if you know how to use them, and I do. And I did all that while weighing about 98 lbs. at 5’1″. No one can tell me that men are better than women, because I know better, and I can and have proved it. And if I have to, I can prove it again..even minus two boobs and carrying more weight.

    Oh, and a little tidbit about the mastectomy.. I was walking into my doctor’s appointment when I saw a sheriff coming out of the offices, so I stopped him and asked if I could ask a question about the law..he was nice and said, sure.. so I asked him since I had had a double mastectomy, hence no boobs, if I flashed someone, would it be indecent exposure?? He looked surprised at the question, and then grinned from ear to ear and said, “No ma’am, no breasts, no indecency.” I grinned back and said “thanks..that’s good to know!!” He left laughing..so did I. I just finished my last, I hope, chemo, so things are looking up a bit. Only another couple of weeks of being tired all the time..sigh.

  • EllenD

    And what about the women and girls, Senator Kerry? What about them, in your “negotiations” with terrorists? Yeah, I know – who gives a damn about them? They are just “casualties,” I suppose, necessary capitulations to this woman-hating group. 

    OK – historically the US has granted refugee status to individuals who feel they are endangered in their own country. I propose that there be a non-profit group dedicated to Afghan Women Rescue. Any Afghan women who want an education (and this includes any family members who support them in this) should be able to apply for asylum in the US and the US government should recognize them as an oppressed minority.

  • justanotherhillbilly

    A Holocaust survivor accosted by a COWARD at the GZM site.  Note how the bully coward doesn’t target anyone else in the crowd.  Nope.  He gets up into an old man’s face. 

  • Sassy

    Katmoon, thanks to JustMe for correcting my mistake…Greg Mortenson is the correct spelling. He was interviewed on Face The Nation, as our troops left Iraq last week. He is a courageous, humble man, and the interview was very moving!

  • Katmoon

    The link doesn’t work.

  • EWard

    justanother

    I heard this on the radio and I was steamed!!!!!  The GZM nutbag reminds me of the Obots and how they got in the faces of anyone opposing Barky,  It is beyond disgusting that anyone would curse out an 80 year old Holocaust survivor.  Let’s have the “elite” dirtbag journolists such as Andrea Mitchell, Norah O’Donell, and Katie Couric show this on the air.  Their side is all propaganda and hate. 

  • Noogan

    I just clicked on it, and it worked fine. Don’t know why it wouldn’t work for you. 

    IT’s a link to this story:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012722304_apusafghanprobe2ndldwritethru.html?syndication=rss

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    FlDemFem—I love hearing your personal stories….So interesting! And we’ll keep good thoughts and wishes coming your way, as far as your health.
    You are a force of nature, FlDemFem, and I mean that  in the best sense of the phrase!

  • FLDemFem

    Did you hear the part where that scumbag said to the Holocaust survivor that he hadn’t learned anything from his experience?? I thought that was totally disgusting. I’d like to take that bully to Auschwitz and make him live for two weeks as the inmates did, same bed, same food, same work, same beatings and torture. See what he learns from his “experience”!!

  • Katmoon

    Thanks for the link. Now for replying, these are two different circumstances regarding the issue at hand. My interpretation of what Creeper is saying is we have not often experienced moderate Muslims, we seem to have more instances of the extremists; with the soldiers you have nearly a decade of war, and you have in this case 5 soldiers accused of severe crimes. I just cannot equivicate our military with the Taliban- I believe they are two very different groups. With regard to Muslims, my personal experiences have been unpleasant as I was treated according to their custom of being in woman, in an environment that was on neutral ground, a store. Do I think all Muslims are extremists like the Taliban, no. Do I think Muslims follow the teachings of their edicts and literature, so far it appears so. Does this faith clash with my belief’s within my own culture, yes they do. Do I deliberatly seek out situations where I am culturally located more in a Muslim atmosphere, no I do not. Not my taste. Does this make me a bigot, maybe to some. Simply not my preference, based on my experiences, and my conversations regarding this faith, particularly in relation to being a female. I don’t see me changing my attitude anytime soon. Not a broad brush, my own canvas, my own experiences.

  • Yttik

    As to the Confluence, it is kind of funny to have your comments deleted on a thread that is all self rightiously defending the First Amendment.

  • EWard

    FLDemFem

    Yes I did!  I have never heard anyone especially on video talk to a Holocaust survivor in that manner.  Except for the police, no one said anything to stop that Nazi creep.  Hey Bloomberg take a look at your sick supporters!!!!!!

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Pakistan floods: Pakistani Taliban threats don’t deter foreign aid workers

    Pakistan flood foreign aid groups appear to be unfazed by Taliban threats that their presence is ‘unacceptable.’
    <!– pgallerycarousel –>

    //<![CDATA[ var pgallerycarousel_itemList = [ {"url_sm":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_380.jpg","url_lg":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_600.jpg","caption":"Pakistani villagers flee their homes due to flooding in Thatta, Pakistan Aug. 26. The Taliban hinted Thursday they may launch attacks against foreigners helping Pakistan respond to the worst floods in the country's history, saying their presence was 'unacceptable.'","credit":"Fareed Khan/AP","related":""} ]; // remove quote html entities for (i=0;i<pgallerycarousel_itemList.length;i++) { pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption = pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption.replace( new RegExp( “&quot;”, “gi” ), ‘”‘ ); } //]]>

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the 20th century ANYWHERE . . .
    //<![CDATA[ var pgallerycarousel_itemList = [ {"url_sm":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_380.jpg","url_lg":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_600.jpg","caption":"Pakistani villagers flee their homes due to flooding in Thatta, Pakistan Aug. 26. The Taliban hinted Thursday they may launch attacks against foreigners helping Pakistan respond to the worst floods in the country's history, saying their presence was 'unacceptable.'","credit":"Fareed Khan/AP","related":""} ]; // remove quote html entities for (i=0;i<pgallerycarousel_itemList.length;i++) { pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption = pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption.replace( new RegExp( “&quot;”, “gi” ), ‘”‘ ); } //]]>

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the 20th century ANYWHERE . . .

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the 20th century ANYWHERE . . .

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the modern world ANYWHERE . . .
    //<![CDATA[ var pgallerycarousel_itemList = [ {"url_sm":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_380.jpg","url_lg":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_600.jpg","caption":"Pakistani villagers flee their homes due to flooding in Thatta, Pakistan Aug. 26. The Taliban hinted Thursday they may launch attacks against foreigners helping Pakistan respond to the worst floods in the country's history, saying their presence was 'unacceptable.'","credit":"Fareed Khan/AP","related":""} ]; // remove quote html entities for (i=0;i<pgallerycarousel_itemList.length;i++) { pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption = pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption.replace( new RegExp( “&quot;”, “gi” ), ‘”‘ ); } //]]>

  • Katmoon

    Here is a really good story I wish I had heard about earlier.
    Source: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112606206&ps=rs

    from 2009

    Woman To Woman: A New Strategy In Afghanistan

    by Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson

  • oowawa

    Oh, and here’s more from those wonderful Taliban:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the modern world ANYWHERE . . .
    //<![CDATA[ var pgallerycarousel_itemList = [ {"url_sm":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_380.jpg","url_lg":"/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0827-pakistan-floods-taliban/8545414-1-eng-US/0827-Pakistan-Floods-taliban_full_600.jpg","caption":"Pakistani villagers flee their homes due to flooding in Thatta, Pakistan Aug. 26. The Taliban hinted Thursday they may launch attacks against foreigners helping Pakistan respond to the worst floods in the country's history, saying their presence was 'unacceptable.'","credit":"Fareed Khan/AP","related":""} ]; // remove quote html entities for (i=0;i<pgallerycarousel_itemList.length;i++) { pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption = pgallerycarousel_itemList[i].caption.replace( new RegExp( “&quot;”, “gi” ), ‘”‘ ); } //]]>

  • oowawa

    Here’s the Taliban in action:

    Seems that the Taliban find the presence of foreign aid workers, trying to alleviate the misery of the hundreds of thousands of flood victims in Pakistan, totally “unacceptable.”

    These “religious students” known as “Taliban” are a disgusting anachronism, and don’t belong in the modern world ANYWHERE . . .

  • EWard

    Sassy

    Hisham Elzanaty is one of the moneymen behind $39 million dollars of loans made to Sharif el-Gamal (the ex NY waiter turned millionaire) and frontman of the GZM ….

    Hisham Elzanaty is a co-signer that appears on the Soho Properties mortgage held by el-Gamal’s purchase of the Burlington Coat factory property…….

  • inthevault

    The thing that bothers me about this video is that
    I wish someone had stepped in between the old man and the crazed nut job.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    What we as women and men need to remember, as mind blowing as these incidents and way of life are in Afghanistan and around the world. How can we ever fully reach out to relieve these women of their suffering when we find here right on our own doorstep, many are suffering?
    You know we all cringe at the words MO used when demeaning Hillary in the primaries. She stated. How could she run a country yet was unable to run her own home or words to that effect? Or keep her house in order. (Someone will have the correct quote I’m sure)
    Really there was a powerful message for us all, when we evaluate the past months since BO took hold of the reigns….. We see perfectly well how things turn out when one has a completely different agenda to most of America! BO also stated to go out and get in their faces….. So we can all look at that as, yes we do need to go out and educate each other NOW for November, to make sure that EVERY vote counts. Votes are cast for the most qualified official who will put the country and its citizens first! 2012 is not far away we need to come together for the sake of our daughters and their daughters. The men will be right there with us! Unless we open our minds and our hearts and work together we will only have ourselves to blame as we watch the country fall into despair!! We cannot rely on Code Pink and Emily’s list etc to put us first they have thrown their views in our faces so many times and have shown us it is completely the opposite of what we all strive for.  Which brings me to Seymour’s words about the Brits having chi* thrown in their faces…… Words really do have meaning there was absolutely nothing wrong with his words, it’s what we take from it to make sure we do not allow the same conditions to take hold here! America the Brave : Home of the FREE! Let us all work to make sure it stays that way!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    What we as women and men need to remember, as mind blowing as these incidents and way of life are in Afghanistan and around the world. How can we ever fully reach out to relieve these women of their suffering when we find here right on our own doorstep, many are suffering?
    You know we all cringe at the words MO used when demeaning Hillary in the primaries. She stated. How could she run a country yet was unable to run her own home or words to that effect? Or keep her house in order. (Someone will have the correct quote I’m sure)
    Really there was a powerful message for us all, when we evaluate the past months since BO took hold of the reigns….. We see perfectly well how things turn out when one has a completely different agenda to most of America! BO also stated to go out and get in their faces….. So we can all look at that as, yes we do need to go out and educate each other NOW for November, to make sure that EVERY vote counts. Votes are cast for the most qualified official who will put the country and its citizens first! 2012 is not far away we need to come together for the sake of our daughters and their daughters. The men will be right there with us! Unless we open our minds and our hearts and work together we will only have ourselves to blame as we watch the country fall into despair!! We cannot rely on Code Pink and Emily’s list etc to put us first they have thrown their views in our faces so many times and have shown us it is completely the opposite of what we all strive for.  Which brings me to Seymour’s words about the Brits having chi* thrown in their faces…… Words really do have meaning there was absolutely nothing wrong with his words, it’s what we take from it to make sure we do not allow the same conditions to take hold here!
    America Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
    Let us all work to make sure it stays that way!

  • creeper

    Noogan<img src=”http://cdn.js-kit.com/images/icon10-external-url.png”/>
    “According to your argument, every Muslim is a terrorist determined to to kill “infidels.”

    Flagged for being a bald-faced lie. 

    Admin, how much longer do we have to tolerate these trolls claiming we have said things we did not?  Dog knows, the last thing I want here is an echo chamber but these idiots are hijacking threads and derailing discussions.

    Maybe Onofre’s arm is right.

  • EWard

    inthevault

    This video coincides with the same type of death threats now hurled at Dick Armey of Freedom Works and Tea Party supporter.  As the November election approaches -Armey has been receiving dozens of threatening and harassing calls and emails.  The other side is in  panic mode and pulling out all the stops. 

    GZM video – I wanted to protect the Holocaust survivor in the video.  He showed so much class. 

  • Armymom

    I have no problem with the “God the Father”. It’s the constant misinterpretation of what God the Father truly means. As a father, you want what is best for your family, or at least you should. You protect, defend and provide for your family. It’s like those who misinterpret what the Bible really says about the woman “submitting” to their husbands. It’s actually a contract, if the man treats the woman like he would treat Christ, love, honor her, protect her, edify her and put her up on a platform, then the woman should also want to please her husband, and without force or guilt or threat of violence. Think about it, if you find someone who truly treats you with respect, loves you and honors you, don’t you want them more and love them more with all your heart?

  • ~~JustMe~~

    BTW sassy no correction was needed ;)

  • oowawa

    “I felt there was a “club” and I didn’t know how one gets to belong.”

    When I said “Joe sent me,” someone laughed out loud
    Behind the Green Door . . .

    On the outside looking in . . . it’s the best place to be!  Where the elite meet!

  • ~~JustMe~~
  • Diana L. C. Hazelut Nut Thin Cracker

    jbjd–what can we do in CO?

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    PERFECT – thanks, kenoshamarge!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    LOL – thanks, Cindy.  Yes, I was, with a concentration in Medical Ethics (and I minored in Greek and Latin, in case anyone is keeping score.  :-D ).

    And yes, Mill was way ahead of his time – no doubt because of his big brain! 

    Oh, I LOVE that image of y’all marching with Ann Richards in Austin!!  That would have been fantastic.  She was one helluva woman, wasn’t she??

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    YES, that was it, lorac – thank you!!!

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Why, thank ya, felizarte!  I know the other writers and Larry appreciate that, too.

    I have said before (a 1,000 times) that I love reading y’all’s comments.  So many interesting, informed, intelligent, and funny people here.  It is truly an honor…

  • Janis

    They declare themselves pro-choice as long as they get to stab some other women in the back over it.  When a cute left-wing mayun is pro-”life” suddenly they start wavering real fast.  Jimmy Carter’s position on abortion is IDENTICAL to Sarah Palin, and how many times has Emily’s List gotten dressed up in Ewok costumes to snark off about him?

    They care about abortion when they get to hate some bitch with it.  And that’s ALL they care about.  Push comes to shove, if they found themselves a cute liberal granola-eating, Prius-driving pro-life Democrat guy with a cute butt and a big paycheck, they’d stop giving even half a crap about abortion.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    EXCELLENT point, Diana.  Remember when Lieberman was questioned abt how his faith would impact his ability to be VP?  If Christians and Jews can be questioned, so can Muslims.  That is not discrmination, but treating them just like everyone else.

    What is this abt exempting certain groups frpm scrutiny?  And in the case of Ground Zero, it isn’t like this wasn’t a well executed plan by a group based solely on their religious beliefs.  From the Ft. Hood massacre and the plans to do harm in NYC that were thwarted, it isn’t like these groups have STOPPED trying to do us harm. 

    WHO does it serve to ignore that?

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Thank you, jbjd – that says it all!

  • Janis

    “A sissy is a person who’s afraid someone who is perceived to be bigger and stronger might hurt them.”

    A left-wing feminist is a person who’s afraid someone who PERCEIVES THEM to be bigger and stronger might hurt them.  So they cringe, and whimper, and simper, and whisper and flirt and bat their eyes … Pathetic is what they are.  They are allergic to spines and are voluntarily signing up for ideological footbinding.

  • Janis

    They’d just start raping and destroying the smallest, quietest, more intelligent men.

  • felizarte

    A friend of mine has a variation of that sweet Lorena Bobbit reference in saying, “I’m civilized, but not THAT civilized to be above the practice back in my naitive country. ”  It was her way of emphasizing her attitude towards infidelity.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    ~Just Me~ wonderful and powerful comment!

  • Lee

    ” The sexism and misogyny evidenced by one of the two major political parties in 2008 made that abundantly clear.”????

    One of the two?  As I recall, both parties were beyond rude to Hillary.  And yes, I took it personal.  I’m still not over this either. 

    Men on both sides of the politial parties are guilty. I remember my great-aunt telling me that Hillary’s voice bothered her.  So yes, women were guilty too.  It has to start with the person in the mirror.  We all must stop this female bashing.

  • ~~JustMe~~

     
    Hi Ellen,
    However, we should go one step further in this outreach…. that each of these women lay the Afghan life down at the border and come to America with the view they start to live as a western woman.
    (and this includes any family members who support them in this)
    Making sure that any male within this family, understands fully, that they now live under the laws and rules of the west, there will be no deviating on any of the conditions, that these women are as free as we all are today. We need to keep FREEDOM uppermost in our minds. One slip can create an environment that will quickly get out of control. Sounds easy huh? No, but we can work to make sure every woman has a voice, every woman has a life, a life that does not look down the blade of a knife or a hole in the ground surrounded by men with stones!

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Hi Ellen,  
    However, we should go one step further in this outreach…. that each of these women lay the Afghan life down at the border and come to America with the view they start to live as a western woman.  
    (and this includes any family members who support them in this)  
    Making sure that any male within this family, understands fully, that they now live under the laws and rules of the west, there will be no deviating on any of the conditions, that these women are as free as we all are today. We need to keep FREEDOM uppermost in our minds. One slip can create an environment that will quickly get out of control. Sounds easy huh? No, but we can start to work to make sure every woman has a voice, every woman has a life, a life that does not look down the blade of a knife or a hole in the ground surrounded by men with stones!  

  • jbjd

    Just to be clear, no “right to education” exists in this country inasmuch as the U.S. Constitution confers no such right.  However, several states have incorporated a right to education in both their constitutions and statutes.  (And of course, where such right exists, the state is obligated to provide for that right according to the principles contained in the U.S. Constitution as spelled out in several seminal cases from the Supreme Court.)

  • jbjd

    DLCHNTC, CO is neither a vote binding state (a state with laws that bind pledged delegates to the candidate voters elected them to represent at the party convention) nor an applicable state for election fraud (a state with a law requiring the candidate whose name appears on the ballot must be eligible for the office).  CO needs a law passed immediately that requires all candidates whose names appear on the ballot must be eligible for office.  You can get sample language for these laws from any of the citizen complaints in the sidebar of my blog.  Then, get your local legislator to introduce the bill…  That’s for starters…

  • Texas Playwright

    Hey R3 Amy, have you read The Chalice and the Blade? Most enlightening re:  the female and male symbols, power, etc.  I think a woman named Eisler was the author.  There are two main societies, she claims, the partnership and the dominator.  Guess which one treats woman as equals?  Equals to what might be a better question.

  • sowsear

    I saw this definition which may be clearer
    Orthogonal‘ means mutually independent, non-redundant, non-overlapping, or irrelevant.

  • Katmoon

    Justme, so right! My apolgies to Dr. Seuss, a friend e-mailed this to me today:

    I do not like this Uncle Sam.I do not like his health care scam.I do not like these dirty crooksor how they lie and cook the books.I do not like when Congress steals.I do not like their secret deals.I do not like this speaker, Nan  I do not like this “YES WE CAN.”I do not like this spending spree.I’m smart; I know that nothing’s free.I do not like your smug replieswhen I complain about your lies.I do not like this kind of hope.I do not like it. Nope! Nope! Nope!

  • Katmoon

    So true Justme, thank you for an excellent reminder.

    With apologies to Dr. Seuss, from a friend of mine.

    I do not like these dirty crooks
    or how they lie and cook the books.
    I do not like when Congress steals.
    I do not like their secret deals.
    I do not like this speaker, Nan 
    I do not like this “YES WE CAN.”
    I do not like this spending spree.
    I’m smart; I know that nothing’s free.
    I do not like their smug replies
    when I complain about the lies.
    I do not like this kind of hope.
    I do not like it. Nope! Nope! Nope!

  • sowsear

    I am reading The Girl With the Dragon Tatoo and  in it she finds a way to revenge her rape and torture by her guardian. It’s a brutal part of the book (and the DVD) but it accomplished her release from his grip without killing him.

  • Katmoon

    I agree ArmyMom, that misinterpretation has caused much pain the world over, and has not been a good representation for men in general. Those who are at the pulpit have had the power to take the misinterpretation to levels that have actually caused harm to families. And yes so true about Biblical interpretations(or amy religious foundational book) that serve an issue or a person seeking to control others, but are not necessarily taken in the most positive context possible.

  • sowsear

    The problem is that most of the women do not feel like hostages…they are brainwashed. Many probably would not leave even if they could take their children.

  • sowsear

    Hum…wonder what she is doing these days.

  • Armymom

    It most certainly has and it’s too bad that there aren’t enough preachers to teach what it really means. I know from experience, after having “read” the Bible twice all the way through, that I didn’t know half of what it meant until I started studying it and asking questions. Most people don’t do that. I remember Obama making the only true statement that I’ve heard to date……..”most people don’t read their Bibles”. And he counted on it.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    EllenD—Laura Bush has done so much for Afghani women already,,,,wouldn’t be surprised if her foundation is working on this?

  • sowsear

    I do not want women to subjugate men anymore than I want men to subjugate women.  Different but equal would be great…

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Janis—-and don’t forget their own chair of the DNC is pro-life!! And their president is anti-gay marriage!!

  • sowsear

    oowawa, you heretic…you’re going to be burned at the stake.

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Greek and Latin, Rev. Amy?? Very impressive! Wow.

    (Does this mean you can “rabble rouse” in THREE languages?! :) )

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Janis—You articulated my thoughts better than I !!

  • Katmoon

    I hear you ArmyMom. When I was in college I had a minor in religion, considering I went to a Catholic College back tehn and had to take 2 semesters of religion. By that time I was no longer Catholic and looking. The classes beyond the core to make up the minor were wonderful, and I had the privilege of studying the eight major religions for two years, reading each text, but not at a deep level, as I was actually under time constraints with only two years to do so. However this did start an adventure for me, and a very good friend of mine (now nearly 75). Every week we went to a different church, literally. We had a list of the different faiths an their various temples, Mosques, church, you name it. It was fantastic. we observed, we discussed, we actually enjoyed it all. there were moments of very offputting circumstances regarding some of the services, or expectations of paritioners, that had nothing to do with the religious text used by the particular faith. I think the most enjoyable, and joyous experience was at a Southern Baptist church, that just sang my socks off. The people were so kind and friendly and genuine. My least favorite was the Mosque, (it was over twenty years ago I did this). I also enjoyed the mass on the lawn at the commons at school, far more relaxed than my days in Mass as a child. I believe that the study of God is a life long work, and requires the person to read, the holy books several times, as our perspectives also change as we get older.

  • Katmoon

    ArmyMom, sorry to go on; but I did want to add, I was typing that last remark and probably didn’t tie it into the original one well. I would say that I am fortunate to have many friends of many faiths, and they all minister to me,(and I want that to continue till the day I die,) I am sort of a spirtual Hobo. As for me I have never found that  one home in a particular place, and I keep looking; I believe I will finally go home when my days are done. In the meantime I continue walking this path where I open to the kindness of those willing to share their worship with me. I love the adventure.

  • Katmoon

    Sowsear, I just finished the trilogy about a week ago and my daughter in law and I watched the film, quite excellent in film; the books are wonderful. Are you going to read the other two books as well?

  • rosa

    grrr…………….I already grind my teeth when I sleep, thinking of many of these things that never stop . I could only hope that every time obama media whines about the way obama is portrayed,they should be forced to play this video. It still sickens me on evey level.     The media needs a refresher course!

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    sows—-Shouldn’t rabbit be fried, rather than BBQued?! ;)

  • sowsear

    Oowawa, yes, I saw your “Call home” last night…and reference to my being old.  (Granny thanks you, Sonny.) 

    Also thanks, Just Me, for your mention.

  • felizarte

    Army mom said:  ”too bad that there aren’t enough preachers to teach what it really means.”

    It’s a business with quite a few of them., knowing that most people wouldn’t bother to do their own studying like you did. Back in my native land there is a joke that goes:

    “There are three professions where one could become filthy rich–Being a Gang Lord; Drug Lord; and Praise the Lord.”

  • sowsear

    I don’t think BO has read a Christian bible…maybe The Koran in his madrassa school in Indonesia.

  • EllenD

    Absolutely right, JustMe.

  • EllenD

    I sure hope so.

  • sowsear

    Kat, yes, I’m about to the end of the first book and will look for the other two when I get resettled from my trip. Usually I prefer books to the movies but this time I saw the DVD as I was reading the book in CA. My brother saw that the DVD was available at Red Box so he brought it (along with ”Nine”) home. Loved the film but it was graphic.

    (I also liked “Nine” but it was abstract.)

  • oowawa

    Bring em’ on!  I have nothing but contempt for Thee One’s white-wine-sniffing toadies!  I stick my cottontail in their faces!

  • sowsear

    Kat, I also heard that the 2nd  bookis better than the first, and the 3rd better than the 2nd. Maybe RRRAmy said that.

  • sowsear

    Cindy, I never cook bunnies so wouldn’t know…

  • sowsear

    My niece who was married last week had asked her mother and mother-in-law to speak at her wedding, to give her and her new husband some advice on how to have a long wedded life together. Before the wedding my sister-in-law asked me how I had stayed married for so long. One piece of advice I had was that household chores are unisex. One other which she didn’t use which I think is important today is: Don’t try too hard to be soul mates. Each person needs some space.

  • sowsear

    If you ask most older women if they want to remarry, they will say no, they do not need to spend the rest of their lives nursing some old sick man.

    Once someone asked me if I would ever remarry and I said, “It depends on who is left”. However, I’ve caught myself thinking many times in the last few years when is someone going to take care of me.

  • sowsear

    I had two brothers who were bachelors and I remember once my father saying, It’s too bad you’re married or you could keep house for the boys….oh yes.

  • sowsear

    Oo,
    Are you sure that’s a bunny?

  • Noogan

    And, what could be said about ALL AMERICANS as a result of this minority?

    As protests in downtown Manhattan over the “Ground Zero” Mosque have escalated, violent incidents involving Muslims have increased. Forget simmering debate; this is closer to a full boil.

    Last night, a drunk man barged into a Queens mosque and shouted anti-Muslim slurs at the congregation during the nightly Tarawee prayers. He then proceeded to urinate on the prayer rugs and gave congregants the finger. Two men managed to subdue him and call 911.

    The incident, which occurred at the Iman Mosque on Steinway Street in Astoria, is the latest in anti-Muslim incidents that are being reported across the US.

    Read more:http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/26/the-mosque-rage-boils-over-anti-muslim-attacks-increasing-across-us/?artId=?contType=?chn=#ixzz0xqQezNTb

  • Janis

    Actually, I didn’t.  What I should have said in hindsight was “a left-wing feminist is someone who’s afraid someone who perceives them to be bigger and stronger might not date them.”  They are such insecure snivellers.

  • Noogan

    I couldn’t disagree more with you on The Confluence, Peggy Sue. Their group-think is pathetic over there. And, they’ve banned everyone I know who expresses an opinion–no matter how politely expressed–that differs from their group-think. Much like Creeper would like to do here. 

  • Noogan

    Well, I was banned from The Confluence for pointing out some blatant hypocrisies in our foreign policy. They are hypocrites of the first order over at The Confluence. Riverdaughter’s words don’t match her actions, much like Obama. 

  • oowawa

    Or a reasonable facsimile thereof . . .

  • Noogan

    Tell me again, oh trolls, about that “small number of radical Muslims” who are giving Islam such a bad name.  Tell me how peace-loving the Taliban is.  Tell me how much they care for their female children.  Tell me how sympathetic and supportive they are of rape victims.  
     
    That crap about a “small minority of radical Muslims” is just that…crap.

    Creeper: “Dog knows….” the above comment from you is “just crap.” And, your hysteria when called on it, proves it. 

  • Katmoon

    Source for chart:http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

    Noogan, why do you do this? Creeper is obviously your target of the hour. Hysteria? Hardly.
    DateCountryCity/StateKilledInjuredDescription4/14/1972USANew York, NY13Ten members of a local mosque phone in a false alarm and then ambush responding officers, killing one.1/19/1973USABrooklyn, NY11Muslim extremists rob a sporting goods store for weapons, gunning down a police officer who responds to the alarm.7/18/1973USAWashington, DC82Nation of Islam members shoot seven members of a family to death in cold blood, including four children. A defendant in the case is later murdered in prison on orders from Elijah Muhammad.10/19/1973USAOakland, CA11Nation of Islam terrorists kidnap a couple and nearly decapitate the man, while raping and leaving the woman for dead.10/29/1973USABerkeley, CA10A woman is shot repeatedly in the face by Nation of Islam terrorists.11/25/1973USAOakland, CA10A grocer is killed in his store by Nation of Islam terrorists.12/11/1973USAOakland, CA10A man is killed by Nation of Islam terrorists while using a phone booth.12/13/1973USAOakland, CA10A woman is shot to deah on the sidewalk by Nation of Islam terrorists.12/20/1973USAOakland, CA10Nation of Islam terrorists gun down an 81-year-old janitor.12/22/1973USAOakland, CA20Nation of Islam terrorist kills two people in separate attacks on the same day.12/24/1973USAOakland, CA10A man is kidnapped, tortured and decapitated by Nation of Islam terrorists.

  • Katmoon

    To continue….the list was too long to post at once.

    /24/1974USAOakland, CA41Five vicious shooting attacks by Nation of Islam terrorists leave three people dead and one paralyzed for life. Three of the victims were women.4/1/1974USAOakland, CA11A Nation of Islam terrorist shoots at two Salvation Army members, killing a man and injuring a woman.4/16/1974USAIngleside, CA10A man is killed while helping a friend move by Nation of Islam terrorists.3/9/1977USAWashington, DC11Hanifi Muslims storm three buildings including a B’nai B’rith to hold 134 people hostage. At least two innocents were shot and one died.7/22/1980USABethesda, MD10A political dissident is shot and killed in front of his home by an Iranian agent who was an American convert to Islam.8/31/1980USASavou, IL20An Iranian student guns down his next-door neighbors, a husband and wife.11/6/1989USASt. Louis, MO10A 17-year-old girl is stabbed to death by her parents for bringing ‘dishonor’ to their family by dating an ‘infidel’ African-American.1/31/1990USATuscon, AZ10A Sunni cleric is assassinated in front of a Tuscon mosque after declaring that two verses of the Qur’an were invalid.11/5/1990USANew York City, NY10An Israeli rabbi is shot to death by a Muslim attacker at a hotel.1/25/1993USALangley, VA23A Pakistani with Mujahideen ties guns down two CIA agents outside of the headquarters.2/26/1993USANew York, NY61040Islamic terrorists detonate a massive truck bomb under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring over 1,000 in an effort to collapse the towers.3/1/1994USABrooklyn, NY10A Muslim fires on a vanload of Jewish boys, killing one.3/23/1997USANew York, NY16A Palestinian leaves an anti-Jewish suicide note behind and travels to the top of the Empire State building where he shoot seven people in a Fedayeen attack.

  • Noogan

    “I just cannot equivocate our troops with the Taliban.”  

    Well, d’oh. Neither do I. And, that isn’t the argument I’m making. The argument I’m making is that if people here conflate all Muslims with Al Qaeda; then people there can conflate all US soldiers with the few psychopaths who do what those soldiers did. 

    Get the distinction? 

    The point is NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES which undermine the truth, and encourage ignorance about a culture, religion, or a people. 

    Negative Stereotypes
    Since the September 11 attacks, the topic of Islam, and in particular Muslim extremism, has come front and center in the news coverage and public discourse. This focus has in some cases spun off into strange and disturbing areas. One example in the news is the “Ground Zero mosque,” which is neither a mosque nor located at Ground Zero. Another are reports on a recent Pew Research poll indicating 18 percent of Americans think President Obama is a Muslim.[1] Yet the point in both stories is not the inaccuracies. The point is that these perceptions are construed as being negative; the mosque’s “location” and Obama’s “religion” are a source of indignation. In other words, anything associated with Islam existing at Ground Zero or in the White House is, to some, unacceptable. More succinctly put, anything associated with Islam is unacceptable.
    http://mondoweiss.net/

  • Katmoon

    8/6/2003USAHouston, TX10After undergoing a religious revival, a Saudi college student slashes the throat of a Jewish student with a 4″ butterfly knife, nearly decapitating the young man.12/2/2003USAChicago, IL10A Muslim doctor deliberately allows a Jewish patient to die from an easily treatable condition.4/13/2004USARaleigh, NC14A Muslim man runs down five strangers with a car.4/15/2004USAScottsville, NY12In an honor killing, a Muslim father kills his wife and attacks his two daughters with a knife and hammer because he feared that they had been sexually molested.6/16/2006USABaltimore, MD10A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim gunman in an unprovoked terror attack.6/25/2006USADenver, CO15Saying that it was ‘Allah’s choice’, a Muslim shoots four of his co-workers and a police officer.7/28/2006USASeattle, WA15An ‘angry’ Muslim-American uses a young girl as hostage to enter a local Jewish center, where he shoots six women, one of whom dies.10/6/2006USALouisville, KY41In an ‘honor’ attack, a Muslim man rapes and beats his estranged wife, leaving her for dead, then savagely murders their four children.2/13/2007USASalt Lake City, UT54A Muslim immigrant goes on a shooting rampage at a mall, targeting people buying Valentine’s Day cards at a gift shop and killing five.1/1/2008USAIrving, TX20A Muslim immigrant shoots his two daughters to death on concerns about their ‘Western’ lifestyle.7/6/2008USAJonesboro, GA10A devout Muslim strangles his 25-year-old daughter in an honor killing.2/12/2009USABuffalo, NY10The founder of a Muslim TV station beheads his wife in the hallway for seeking a divorce.6/1/2009USALittle Rock, AR11A Muslim with ‘religious motives’ shoots a local soldier to death inside a recruiting center.11/2/2009USAGlendale, AZ11A woman dies from injuries suffered when her father runs her down with a car for being too ‘Westernized.’ (10-20-09)11/5/2009USAFt. Hood, TX1331A Muslim psychiatrist guns down thirteen unarmed soldiers while yelling praises to Allah.12/4/2009USABinghamton, NY10A non-Muslim Islamic studies professor is stabbed to death by a Muslim grad student in revenge for ‘persecuted’ Muslims.4/14/2010USAMarquette Park, IL52After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to ‘take them back to Allah’ and out of the ‘world of sinners’.

  • Katmoon

    tap…tap…tap… Noogan!

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Admin, how much longer do we have to tolerate these trolls claiming we have said things we did not?  Dog knows, the last thing I want here is an echo chamber but these idiots are hijacking threads and derailing discussions. 
    ==========================
    Yeah, creeper, we have two in particular who take a sentence or two entirely out of context, make a lot of noise about it, and then proceed to overrun the thread with their patent-pending, prepackaged, prefabricated pablum. They should be banned for cause. I don’t respond to either of them anymore but just flag them for being flamers and spammers.

  • Katmoon

    Don’t you “d’oh” me and expect civil discourse. Islam does have a negative face, based for some of us on personal experiences, whether you like it or not, or agree or not.  

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Excellent point there, PMM.  Thank you (and fofr the compliment, too!).

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    I hear you, creeper – Noogan made a wild claim about something I said recently, too, so I know just how you feel.  I will alert the Admin.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    Amen to that!

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    The Dems?  That ship has sailed. 
    ======================
    Yeah and ran aground on the reef to the far left. It is now a sinking ship.

  • sowsear

    Fl Fem Dem

    You’ve convinced me. Wish I had your “brass”.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    The Reublicans were more respectful toward Hillary than the Democrats were, by a long shot. John McCain had/has tremendous respect for Hillary since they worked together.  From reports I have seen, Republicans grew to have a lot of respect for her because of her work in the Senate.

    The Democrats always claimed to be the party for women, yet the vast majority of misogyny and sexism was spewed by the Dems toward both Clinton and Palin, thus all women.  So yes, I hold the Dems more accountable because they always claimed to care abt women, and wanted us in the party.  What I realized is that they have done blessed little for us, and after the way Obama, the DNC, and Dems in general acted in 2008 – 10, you betcha I hold them accountable.

    No doubt women internalize misogny.  I think we saw that with the young women wearing those DESPICABLE t-shirts abt Palin.  No doubt.  It’s sad, but they want to stay close to power, so they will trash their own (if you know what I mean).

  • Katmoon

    http://www.historyguy.com/new_and_recent_conflicts.html

    These are more well known attacks all over the world.

    Attack on Israeli tourists in Kenya (Nov. 28, 2002

    Attack on the French oil tanker Limburg (Oct. 6, 2002): 

    Bali Bombing—(Oct. 12, 2002):

    Tunisian Synagogue Bombing—(April 11, 2002):

    Attack on the USS Cole—(October 12, 2000):
    U.S. Embassy Bombings –(August 8, 1998):

    1983 April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.

    1998 Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania

    Read more: Terrorist Attacks — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html#ixzz0xqfUPC9Z
    May 16, 2003: Thirty-three people are killed and about 100 others injured in five nearly simultaneous suicide bombing attacks in Casablanca. Twelve of the 14 bombers, all of whom were Moroccan, also die in the attacks.

    Nov. 15 & 20, 2003: Car bombs explode within minutes of each other at two Jewish synagogues in Istanbul Nov. 15. A second pair of bombings five days later strike the British consulate and the offices of the London-based HSBC bank in Istanbul. The four bombings kill 58 people and wound about 750.
    March 11, 2004: Ten bombs explode within minutes of each other on four crowded commuter trains in the center of Madrid, killing 190 people and wounding more than 1,400.

    July 7, 2005-London-Fifty-six people, including the four suicide bombers, were killed in the attacks[11] and about 700 were injured, of whom about 100 required overnight hospital treatment or more.

    and of course:

    Feb. 26, 1993: A massive bomb explodes in a garage below the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and more than 1,000 injured in the blast. Analysts cite some links to al-Qaida in the attack, though Osama bin Laden disavowed any connection.

    Sept. 11, 2001: Hijackers commandeer four commercial jetliners, crashing two of them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City and another into the Pentagon outside Washington. The fourth airliner crashes in a field in Pennsylvania. Some 3,000 people die in the attacks.

  • Rabble Rouser Rev. Amy

    That sounds really familiar, Texas.  I’ll have to look into it (Riane Eisler is the author).  Thanks for the heads up!

    And jbjd, I was referring more to the right to be educated without the fear of being physically abused in one form or another, not necessarily a Constitutional right.

  • Katmoon

    http://www.historyguy.com/new_and_recent_conflicts.html

    These are more well known attacks all over the world.

    Attack on Israeli tourists in Kenya (Nov. 28, 2002

    Attack on the French oil tanker Limburg (Oct. 6, 2002): 

    Bali Bombing—(Oct. 12, 2002):

    Tunisian Synagogue Bombing—(April 11, 2002):

    Attack on the USS Cole—(October 12, 2000):
    U.S. Embassy Bombings –(August 8, 1998):

    1983 April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.

    1998 Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania

    Read more: Terrorist Attacks — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html#ixzz0xqfUPC9Z
    May 16, 2003: Thirty-three people are killed and about 100 others injured in five nearly simultaneous suicide bombing attacks in Casablanca. Twelve of the 14 bombers, all of whom were Moroccan, also die in the attacks.

    Nov. 15 & 20, 2003: Car bombs explode within minutes of each other at two Jewish synagogues in Istanbul Nov. 15. A second pair of bombings five days later strike the British consulate and the offices of the London-based HSBC bank in Istanbul. The four bombings kill 58 people and wound about 750.
    March 11, 2004: Ten bombs explode within minutes of each other on four crowded commuter trains in the center of Madrid, killing 190 people and wounding more than 1,400.

    July 7, 2005-London-Fifty-six people, including the four suicide bombers, were killed in the attacks[11] and about 700 were injured, of whom about 100 required overnight hospital treatment or more.

    and of course:

    Feb. 26, 1993: A massive bomb explodes in a garage below the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and more than 1,000 injured in the blast. Analysts cite some links to al-Qaida in the attack, though Osama bin Laden disavowed any connection.

    Sept. 11, 2001: Hijackers commandeer four commercial jetliners, crashing two of them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City and another into the Pentagon outside Washington. The fourth airliner crashes in a field in Pennsylvania. Some 3,000 people die in the attacks.

  • sowsear

    I think they do not allow “birther” talk!

  • Sassy

    EWard,
    Glen Beck’s Restore Honor rally at the Lincoln Memorial tomorrow has been called a gathering of the Klan,(Tea Party), and Chris Matthews tonight called it a desecration. Reverend King’s niece is a featured speaker, as are many other persons of the clergy.

  • EWard

    Sassy

    So let me get this straight….Tea party activists participating in the Beck rally represent the Klan, and the Obamas gallavanting on their 6th vacation while Americans suffering economically represent hope?  

    I thought 2008 symbolized the low point in journalism, but this crop of journolists are true scumbags.  Karma!    

  • EWard

    It’s a sign of desperation to be thrashing the American public. If and when the Democrats and Obama are defeated at the polls, it means the American voters have repudiated their candidate and exposed their lies. 

    Building trust is one aspect of being a good journalist.  This bunch threw that away in 2008/09 by morphing into Obama gofers.

  • creeper

    You had me until you took that gratuitous whack at me, Noogan.  Just couldn’t resist, could you? 

    That happens sometimes when people are exposed as intellectual lightweights…they strike back. They twist others’ words and hijack the discussion.  When all else fails, they call names.  But you wouldn’t know anything about that, now would you?

  • creeper

    I got lucky.  Tried to join The Confluence but couldn’t get registered.  Sent Riverdaughter a polite e-mail asking for help.  Got squat.  As it turns out, I’m glad the registration failed.  They’re as doctrinaire over there as any right-wing blog I know.

    jbjd, I remember when they banned you.  That was the last time I read The Confluence. 

    Do I get bragging rights for being banned by CBS?

  • creeper

    P.S.  Flagged for false claim.

  • creeper

    It IS a club, felizarte.  And that club didn’t want me as a member.

    Of course, Groucho was right anyway.

  • Cathy in Ks.

    I grew up Roman Catholic and was educated primarily by nuns in high school in an all girls’ school.  At the time I thought I was deprived of social interaction with the other sex but now I see how fortunate I was.  At a time when girls can become easily distracted by the superficial and inconseqential, I was free to concentrate on academic subjects and was taught by women who had spent a lifetime pursuing these subjects and who did not judge themselves or others by the men or lack of men in their lives.  I realize now that the women who taught me in high school were “feminists” before there was such a word to describe them.  It’s odd because they subjucated themselves to the “rule of their order” and still dressed in “habits” which covered them from head to toe.  But it was “their choice” for themselves, not some male religious leader.  What I saw were liberated women who were free to pursue their gifts and talents and share them with the young women who were entrusted to their care and tutelage.

  • creeper

    Amy, I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember, but JFK was raked over the coals about his Catholicism for weeks.  If I recall correctly, the question even came up during the Kennedy/Nixon debates. 

    It wasn’t pretty.  There were a lot of nasty accusations and a whole slew of “Catholic President” jokes that were pretty mean.  But through that process the truth came out.

    How are we supposed to learn the truth about a Muslim’s beliefs (and Islam in general) if we’re not allowed to ask?

  • creeper

    I couldn’t stand to open that, Hope, but I thank you for posting it anyway.

    Never forget.

  • creeper

    What I wouldn’t give to be able to translate that.

  • creeper

    Looks like we’re showing them as much sensitivity as they’re showing us.

  • creeper

    Thank you, ma’am.

    Nobody argues more strenuously for listening to the other side of an argument than I do, but when it’s presented with lies, name-calling and word-twisting it’s not civil discourse and we don’t need it.

  • kenoshamarge

    Thanks for giving me a phrase that helps me to define myself Katmoon. Spiritual Hobo, yup that’s me all right. I know that I believe in “something” I just cannot, and I guess will not, believe the way that most organized religions insist that I MUST believe.

    I started out as a rather confused young woman from a Catholic/Methodist household, and that was only the beginning of the differences between my two battling parents, and soon started on my search for “my” own truth.

    I left the Catholic Church when a misognynistic priest asked my mother’s best friend, who showed up at church on Sunday morning with her face battered and bruised, a circumstance that happened frequently, what she had done to make “Jimmy” so mad. What had she done, Father S.O.B.? She had laim quietly in her bed trying not to raise the ire of the drunken asshole that had finally stumbled home from the bar, smelling of beer and some cheap floozie’s cheap cologn. That, as usual was enough to set him off and for him to take his inner rage out on her. While their four kids cowered in their beds listening to their “Daddy” beat the shit out of their “Mommy”. Mom’s friend kept going to church til the day she died. (He, Jimmy the wife-beater, had a stoke and died in his late 40′s. I almost believed again when that happened.) I have never set foot in a Catholic Church again except for Weddings, Funerals and Christenings. I don’t “believe” but I see no reason to hurt my friends and family that still do by not helping them celebrate or mourn. Each to his/her own way.

    I will continue on my way, bindlestick over my shoulder as a Spiritual Hobo. Thanks again Kat!

  • creeper

    Katmoon….

    {smooch}

  • ogee

    Yes women are complicit to this mysogyny and the biggest offenders. Check out the pic I posted. If we don’t fight against Sharia this will be America. This is what Carter did to Persia (now Iran) View pic.

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    Well, ogee, I didn’t like Carter but he did not do this to Iran. That would be the Shah Reza Pahlavi, a brutal dictator we put on the throne under Truman (one his few truly monumental screwups). Carter was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with a dying, hated Shah. The Shah and his actions are responsible for what is going on now. This should give any presdient pause to reflect as we should look down the road a piece before acting stupidly. Democrat and Republican presidents have screwed things up because they didn’t look far enough ahead to see what the ultimate outcome of their policies might be. That One is failing in this, too, mainly because he is ignorant and arrogant.

  • Katmoon

    Kenoshamarge, What a cool photo, I love it. Well, nce to know I have good company on my Hobo walks. Sad story, but all to frquent, I am sure. Thanks for sharing it Kenoshamarge.

  • Katmoon

    The three books flow togethr quite well. I like the character development of Slander the best in the second book. Have fun reading them!

  • Katmoon

    I meant Salander, and I haven’t heard of “nine”, will have to check it out.