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to burn, or not to burn

Pastor Terry Jones, from the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida, recently announced plans to burn copies of the Quran on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. General David Petraeus warned that the planned Quran burning could “endanger American troops in Afghanistan and be used to incite violence around the world”. There have already been protests in Afghanistan and Indonesia.

(AP)

Mayor Bloomberg, who has been defending the Ground Zero mosque, had this to say:

In a strange way I’m here to defend his right to do that. I happen to think that it is distasteful. I don’t think he would like it if somebody burnt a book that in his religion he thinks is holy,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a news conference updating the public on the progress of rebuilding at the World Trade Center site.

“But the First Amendment protects everybody,” Mr. Bloomberg said, “and you can’t say that we’re going to apply the First Amendment to only those cases where we are in agreement.”

Hillary Clinton weighed in:

I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths, from evangelical Christians to Jewish rabbis, as well as secular U.S. leaders and opinion-makers.”

Sarah Palin posted on Facebook, in part:

Book burning is antithetical to American ideals. People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation – much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.

I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event. It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don’t feed that fire. If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive.”

The Daily Beast’s Asra Q. Nomani, herself a Muslim, says there are a few brutal passages in the Quran that need to go up in smoke.

But I believe that there is something that endangers Americans and American soldiers even more: certain passages that—when read literally—pit Muslims against Americans and the West.

I believe the Qurans are being burnt because we, as Muslims, haven’t dealt sincerely and intellectually with very serious issues that certain Quranic passages raise, particularly in the West. These include verses—when literally read—that say that disobedient wives can be beaten “lightly,” that Muslims can’t be friends with the Jews and the Christians, and that it’s OK to kill converts from Islam.

We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran—symbolically, at least, by rejecting literal adherence to certain problematic verses.

A lot of arguments are being made, pro and con, on the issue.

In my opinion, burning the Quran because Islamic extremists attacked America on 9/11 is like burning bibles because Dr. Tiller was murdered, or an abortion clinic was bombed. It’s like burning the American flag because the USA went to war in Iraq. It’s like burning Ozzy Osbourne albums because John McCollum, a depressed teenager, shot himself in the head while listening to the song Suicide Solution. Or burning bibles or blaming all Catholics because some priests are pedophiles.

If you are ok with one, you should be ok with all of these forms of protest.

If you are against any of these, you should be against all of them.

Personally, I think it is a stupid idea. If the Pastor wants to protest he should burn photos of Osama Bin Laden, Osama’s fatwa and images of the terrorists who flew the planes.

Pastor Terry Jones would better serve his congregation and community by holding a fundraiser to raise money for the soldiers and their families who are at/went to war in Afghanistan.

Yes, he has a right to burn the Quran. And, as with the Ground Zero mosque, just because they have the *right*, it doesn’t make it just.

AFP

As for the argument that in doing so, they will be putting soldiers in harms way, I believe we can’t stop being *free* and give in to/live in fear of, threats of violence.

Not exercising our freedoms because of threats of violence from radical extremists means they win.

Aldo Utama/AFP/Getty Images

I have no doubt there will be violence. There was violence before this came about, there was violence over a cartoon drawing of Muhammad, and there will be violence after this protest. Whether they burn the Quran or not, there will be violence.**

Burning the Quran is not the answer, or the problem.

Religions don’t kill people. People who distort religion to violent ends kill people.”

And personally, I’d like to think we are better than them.


Kind of ironic (idiotic) that they protest the burning of something they hold sacred by burning images of the American flag and President….

UPDATE:

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf told CNN that the discourse surrounding the center has become so politicized that moving it could strengthen the ability of extremists abroad to recruit and wage attacks against Americans, including troops fighting in the Middle East.

“But if you don’t do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,” he later said, predicting that the reaction could be more furious than the eruption of violence following the 2005 publication of Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Sound familiar? Isn’t this like extortion or blackmail or something? Like I said above, we can’t live controlled by the threat of violence, our actions dictated because of threats. Especially by people who stone women to death.

We shouldn’t burn the Quran because of the reasons above. Not because someone is threatening us with violence (and burning our flag).

  • TeakWoodKite

    ? Huh?

  • Armymom

    Thank you Moyra for teaching me that I want no part of you or your religion.

    Swat,   yawn……zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Armymom

    Classy representation of your religion there Mazuzi.

    SWAT  Yawn…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Mazuz Al-Faysal Mukrabahat

    Hey Americans, repeat after me:

    - I am American I am coward bitch.
    - I am American I am worthless shit.
    - I am American I am slave of Muslim power.
    - I am American I am garbage eating homo dick-sucking kaka.
    - I am American I am butt kisser of freedom fighters from Palestine and Mexico.
    - I am American I am saying “Good Morning President Hussein”
    - I am American I am saying “Communism is good. I am happy to be a slave.”
    - I am American I am worthless nobody owned by China.
    - I am American I am coward CIA coward FBI coward NSA eating used toilet paper.
    - I am American I am murderer of innocent Palestinian and steal from the poor Mexican.
    - I am American I am eating dirty cock of Baldwin Brothers from age 5.
    - I am American I am fucking my ugly wife that looks like Barbara Walters.
    - I am American I am gargling in the morning with the balls of Keith Olberman.
    - I am American I am BAG OF DUSH.
    - I am American I am learning Rachel Corrie big hero and saint and bow before her.
    - I am American I am kaka smell I am pig I am stupid I am infidel whore.
    - I am American I am suck cock of gay Barney Frank after gay Barney Frank fuck my ass.

    America, you are ZERO. Big empire of shit, Islam and George Soros fuck you down to your knees. America, we will piss on the grave of your George Washington, and you will pray to Allah, on your knees, five times a day!

    America you are SHIT! We are OBAMA UNITED – Islam, ACLU, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Al Gore, Black Panthers, Louis Farrakhan and Nation of Islam, JStreet, Hollywood, Noam Chomsky, Cheryl Crow, …..and MATT DAMON! …..and BEN AFFLECK! …..and BARBARA STREISAND!

    WE WILL FUCK YOU AMERICA! We will fuck you America so deep Muslim cock will push your vocal cords and your ass hemorroyds out of your mouth.

    *** YOU WILL PRAY TO ALLAH !!!

  • wodiej cracker dawg

    Great post Sara.  I agree.  Just because we have free speech doesn’t mean we should yell fire in a crowded movie theatre.  Radicals don’t need any provocation-they just plain do not like the US.  This man calls himself a minister? Hardly-a real Christian would not engage in such hateful behavior.

  • wodiej cracker dawg

    NQ should remove that post.

  • sarainitaly

    Well…Isn’t that special. 

  • Onofre’s arm

    It would have to be a group effort Harp. In fact, it would take a caste of thousands working within a giant wiry haired latex bag the size of a dirigible to be the Jackie character. It would probably just be easier to use CGI for Jackie’s part, but real rats could still be used as the supporting cast, and they’re far more agreeable than most other Hollywood types. 

  • Mazuz Al-Faysal Mukrabahat

    Hey Americans, repeat after me:

    - I am American I am coward bitch.
    - I am American I am worthless shit.
    - I am American I am slave of Muslim power.
    - I am American I am garbage eating homo dick-sucking kaka.
    - I am American I am butt kisser of freedom fighters from Palestine and Mexico.
    - I am American I am saying “Good Morning President Hussein”
    - I am American I am saying “Communism is good. I am happy to be a slave.”
    - I am American I am worthless nobody owned by China.
    - I am American I am coward CIA coward FBI coward NSA eating used toilet paper.
    - I am American I am murderer of innocent Palestinian and steal from the poor Mexican.
    - I am American I am eating dirty cock of Baldwin Brothers from age 5.
    - I am American I am fucking my wife that looks like Barbara Walters.
    - I am American I am gargling in the morning with the balls of Keith Olberman.
    - I am American I am BAG OF DUSH.
    - I am American I am learning Rachel Corrie big hero and saint and bow before her.
    - I am American I am kaka smell I am pig I am stupid I am infidel whore.
    - I am American I am suck cock of gay Barney Frank after gay Barney Frank fuck my ass.

    America, you are ZERO. Big empire of shit, Islam and George Soros fuck you down to your knees. America, we will piss on the grave of your George Washington, and you will pray to Allah, on your knees, five times a day!

    America you are SHIT! We are OBAMA UNITED – Islam, ACLU, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Al Gore, Black Panthers, Louis Farrakhan and Nation of Islam, JStreet, Hollywood, Noam Chomsky, Cheryl Crow, …..and MATT DAMON! …..and BEN AFFLECK! …..and BARBARA STREISAND!

    WE WILL FUCK YOU AMERICA! We will fuck you America so deep Muslim cock will push your vocal cords and your ass hemorroyds out of your mouth.

    *** YOU WILL PRAY TO ALLAH !!!

  • CindyWhiteBaguettew/OliveOilforDipping

    Moyra—LOL!

  • TeakWoodKite

    Great read American Girl in Italy. Thanks. :)

  • TeakWoodKite

    Katmoon, oowawa, caveman days.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Currently Ferd, they under the distinct delusion that their wallet is in my pocket.

    Say it ain’t so.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Madison said he would welcome “the Mohammedan” into his church.  
     
    That is a religous man saying it. In todays world where it possible for a muslim to enter a church in earnest, without malice, would be a rare example of “multculturism”. Not happening. Peaceful? No.  
     
    And a Christen enter a Mosque? Only two mosques in Europe are “open” to “non believers”.  
     
    Theocratic political belief systems are incompatible with our Constitution. Period. No amount of “words” can change that reality.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Madison said he would welcome “the Mohammedan” into his church.

    That is a religous man saying it. In todays world where possible for a muslim to enter a church in earnest, without malice would be a rare example of “multculturism”. Not happening. Peaceful? No.

    And a Christen enter a Mosque? Only two mosques in Europe are “open” to “non believers”.

    Theocratic political belief systems are incompatible with our Constitution. Period. No amount of “words” can change that reality.

  • candymarl red bone cracker

    To burn or not to  burn?  That is the question.

    Whether ’tis nobler to pull out and drop a nuke on their tiny heads  in Afghanistan may make some ask this question.

    I say we err on the side of caution and wipe them out through legimate military means. No book burning required. 
    The guilt or innocence of the 9/11 victims was not considered.  Pregnant women and infants included. Fathers, sons, cousins, uncles and various relatives were not consulted.

    But let’s not talk about that. It would be nice if our so-called President, who will make a show of grief, on this 9/11 anniversary, could manage to mention that.

  • TeakWoodKite

    soetoro, “not enraged” is not true….the force is expressed in many ways.

    If I brandish a fist, my oppenent thinks of knives. Now I understand that the inability to give NoQuarter without the use of violence is a difficult entrerprise.

    most Americans?

    Spock: He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Report: Soros spent millions to ‘undermine’ judiciary
     
    Campaign sought ‘commissions’ that avoided public input on candidates for judgeships  
     
    Radical progressive billionaire George Soros has spent some $45 million in recent years on efforts to take away power from voters to select judges, a new report released today by the American Justice Partnership reveals.   
    The report by attorney Colleen Pero was introduced at an event held by the Heritage Foundation. It identified $45 million spent by Soros, who funds a large range of left-wing action groups, to “remake the judiciary and fundamentally change the way judges are selected in the United States.”  
    “This movement to end citizen participation in state judicial elections has been moving swiftly and silently, below the radar of the citizens who would be impacted by Mr. Soros’ millions,” said Pero in a statement about her report, “and it was time to bring this effort to the public’s attention.”  

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Report: Soros spent millions to ‘undermine’ judiciary<!– deck –>

    Campaign sought ‘commissions’ that avoided public input on candidates for judgeships

    Radical progressive billionaire George Soros has spent some $45 million in recent years on efforts to take away power from voters to select judges, a new report released today by the American Justice Partnership reveals. 
    The report by attorney Colleen Pero was introduced at an event held by the Heritage Foundation. It identified $45 million spent by Soros, who funds a large range of left-wing action groups, to “remake the judiciary and fundamentally change the way judges are selected in the United States.”
    “This movement to end citizen participation in state judicial elections has been moving swiftly and silently, below the radar of the citizens who would be impacted by Mr. Soros’ millions,” said Pero in a statement about her report, “and it was time to bring this effort to the public’s attention.”

  • Ferd Premium Saltine Berfle

    A masterpiece, OA. Do continue.

    LMAO.

  • soetoro

    Mohammad was a bandwagon bandit, liar, thief, murderer, rapist, sex-maniac, polygamist, pedophile…. Yes, Mohammad was the greatest mother fcuker of all times  since 1,400 years ago.

    Who on earth wants to follow the teaching of this mother fcuker  of all times Mohammad?

    Yes! Only mother fcukers from the Arabic desert would follow that mother fcuker of all mother fcukers!

    All these mother fcukers should be kicked back to the barren Arabic desert and let the blazing sun burn them to hell!

  • Moyra Leibowitz-Kagan, PhD, Women’s Studies, Columbia U.

    As a progressive liberal, with a PhD in women’s studies I have studied Islam closely, and I have found that Islam is not just a religion of peace but it is also a religion that treats women really well. Don’t listen to the idiot conservatives in Fox news, listen to me and LEARN:
    - Wearing a burka gives you freedom! Yes, you don’t need to choose clothes to please lascivious men any more! You can just wear a burka, and you are done! Islam = feminism.
    - True, Muslims do burn women’s faces with acid, but these are skanks! I mean, come on! Who among us has not wished to do the same to Paris Hilton?
    - Christianity and Judaism are pasee. Islam is progressive and sexy! And progressive sex is what we all need more of.
    Islam must penetrate the US with its wisdom and teach its stupid hicks and gun-toting Christians that god and jesus are nothing, and that it is Islam with its thick firm throbbing ferocity that holds the key to the future. This because Islam is fundamentally progressive and forward thinking.
    And now it is your turn to thank me for teaching you something.

  • Mazuz Al-Faysal Mukrabahat

    I agree with Brother Idris above. Fine comments.
    Hey Americans, repeat after me:
    - I am American I am coward bitch.
    - I am American I am worthless shit.
    - I am American I am slave of Muslim power.
    - I am American I am garbage eating homo dick-sucking kaka.
    - I am American I am butt kisser of freedom fighters from Palestine and Mexico.
    - I am American I am saying “Good Morning President Hussein”
    - I am American I am saying “Communism is good. I am happy to be a slave.”
    - I am American I am worthless nobody owned by China.
    America, you are ZERO. Big empire of shit, Islam and George Soros fuck you down to your knees. America, we will piss on the grave of your George Washington, and you will pray to Allah, on your knees, five times a day!

  • Idris Atbah Al-All

    What a glorious lesson to Americans. Even if you have one American with half a ball to fight against the wrath of Allah, all media outlets shall attack this person, and show you a taste of Sharia law. Even the ISP in Texas bend over like a 11 year old boy to take in the anus the power of Islam.
    We know that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and all the other coward Americans have already surrendered, but it was fun surprise to see ISP from Texas bend over! What a day of glory for Islam. Perhaps on the day we implement Sharia law in the US you will not even put up a fight. We will just kill all christians and rape your women and then chop you into dog-meat. And you won’t even be allowed to lift a finger, because if you defend yourself, we will get the ACLU to accuse you of engaging in a hate crime.
    FUCK YOU AMERICA THE GREAT SATAN !!!

  • Josh Goldfarb, Berkeley

    I love the outcome of this whole crazy Holy and Magnificent Qur’an burning event. At the end the coward christian was forced to bend over and take a goat cock in his ass. Or maybe a camel cock, and a camel foot for dessert. Dirty christians need to know that this country is run by Obama, and this is our day. Sharia law is around the corner. We will build mosques on the 9/11 site, we will build crack houses, we will build gay bath-houses and we will build nightclubs where underage boys will be made available to elderly gay men in positions of leadership like Barney Frank.
    9/11 happened because of the suffering of Palestinians. It is only logical that the site of 9/11 should be a public apology to Muslims whose heroic sons gave their lives to fight the injustices carried out by the US and the Zionists and destroyed the twin towers in an act of Muslim courage and justice.

  • Suzanne Goldstein, PhD

    I *SO* agree with you “Noogan”! We should burn not only stupid bibles but also stupid christians! And free speech belongs only to us, progressives. And as you cleverly hinted, freedom of speech was flushed down the toilet today, because here now we are talking about islam and progressives, so fuck the freedom of speech of anybody that is not islam or progressive. We own freedom of speech, BITCHES! Everybody else can go and eat shit. Islam shit and progressive shit. WE OWN THIS COUNTRY. Islams and progressives united, we will FUCK everybody else. When we team up with the Mexican gangs, we will have all angry white people ON THE RUN!
    We will destroy all fanatic christian jezuzy lovers and the same will go for the dirty scummy rotten zionist neocons. When we destroy these assholes, we will have a world of peace.
    “Noogan” you are the best! I really like you, not like all the Obama-hating freak Jew Zionists that fill this blog with their commentary.

  • ripalinsky

    BURN……BABY……BURN

  • Breeze

    -

    Enough Already with Reverend Jones
     
    National Review Online,
    by Victor Davis Hanson   

    Original Article

    9/10/2010

    Everyone is trying to outdo one another in righteous condemnation of the Reverend Terry Jones and his micro-flock, to assure the world that 50 people out of 300 million does not a majority make. That is altogether fine and good, and yet we all know the asymmetry involved — whether it is a scholarly remark made by a pope and the Muslim riots in response, or the policies of many Arab countries forbidding open worship by other religions and, in some cases, the presence of non-Muslims in entire cities.

  • Breeze

    -

    Springfield Pastor Plans
    To Burn Quran

    NewsChannel5.com
    (Springfield, Tenn.),
    by Kim Gebbia   

    Original Article

    9/10/2010 

    Springfield Pastor Bob Old said his decision to burn the Islamic holy book on September 11 has nothing to do with the agenda of the pastor in Florida or the controversy surrounding the mosque in New York. He has his own reasons behind the demonstrations and no intentions of backing down. “My plans for Saturday are to take a copy of the Quran and burn it,” said Old.

  • Hokma

    The reason I am upset with this threat of Koran burning is that it has presented a convenient distraction for the liberal media to move off the reall major issues which is the Ground Zero Mosque and even use it as a reason for this Pastor to do his Koran buring.

    Tomorrow is September 11th and it should be devoted to the memories of those lost and the heroes of that day and the days following.

    It should also be a day where there will be protests against the Muslim Ground Zero Mosque and their backers and fronters – all of whom have proven that Muslims are intolerant of anyone but themselves.

    The Donald tried valliently to buy the property and give a 25% profit to the Egyptian investor with a simply condition that they build their mosque another 5 blocks away. The Egyptian refused.

    The Imam has come back to state that the project will move forward without any discussion or compromise. More blatant intolerance.

    And as you pointed out this radical Imam said:

    “But if you don’t do this right, anger will explode in the Muslim world,” he later said, predicting that the reaction could be more furious than the eruption of violence following the 2005 publication of Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.”

    That is not the voice of a moderate Muslim or an American. It is the voice of an anti-American Muslim extremist who sides with terrorist groups like Hamas and blames the USA for September 11 and the empowerment of bin-Laden.

    It will be also interesting to see what kind of reception the mayor (small “m”) of New York gets tomorrow. It might be best for him to stay away but he is too arrogant to understand what others feel.

  • surfered

    The object is to decrease the number of our enemies, not increase them.  There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.  To date, less than one-tenth of one percent of them have committed violent acts against us.  Insurgencies are won by “winning hearts and minds,” not by turning the good guys into bad guys. 

    It’s exasperating to have to remind people that our allies in Paksistan, Afghanistan, and other countries are Muslim.  American Muslims serve in the U. S. military and their translators at the point of the spear are Muslim.

    This Islamaphobia being peddled to the weak minded, which conflates Al Qaeda with Islam, is not productive nor in our best interest.  It could allow the country of Madison Avenue to lose the propaganda war to people who live in caves.

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Perfectly stated Retired!

  • Retired

    I am getting a bit tired of the threat of “anger in the Muslim world” being used to intimidate and blackmail America and the West into submitting to Islamic will.  Imam Rauf’s use of this threat, although I am sure that he would characterize it as just an insight into Muslim sensitivities, is just a further indicator of where his true loyalties lie.
    It is one thing for America to be tolerant.  It is quite another for us to let an enemy cleverly exploit our tolerance against us to their benefit and our detriment.
    Muslims need to make a choice between adhering to a literal interpretation of the Qur’an and living peacefully in a world society composed both Muslims and non Muslims.  Those whose religion it is to make war on, slaughter and suppress those of different faiths cannot be given a pass of tolerance just because their religion happens to be killing people.  Were that the case, any common murderer could seek the defense of “just practicing my religion” to escape justice for his acts.
    If Muslims will not self police the murderously intolerant among them, then society at large is obliged to step forward and take action.  Some may call this religious intolerance.  I think of it merely as self defense. 

  • ~~JustMe~~

    Well history serves us all with great lessons. We are speaking of going forward here. For the security and safety of our children and their children, we have to remain firm in our beliefs today and not be intimidated by horrendous acts from the past.
    If we are looking towards a country where we do not have to keep looking over our shoulders some acts of violence have to be laid to rest. However, we will never forget how we progressed to the level of understanding we have today!

  • FLDemFem

    To post the picture, download it to your computer, then open a comment window and click the add images button, then browse for or write in the file name of the picture and hit upload. Then it will upload onto NQ and appear in a little box below your comment. You can also caption it.

  • bamaLV

     muslims  stoning gays to death is such hypocracy since its well known they like young boys.  they take them along when they are on the battlefield. no wonder they make women cover themselves up.  the men cant stand to look at them when they’d rather have young boys.   btw..i read that little tidbit in national geographic.

  • bamaLV

    what surprises me most is that so many muslim women  are protesting against american values.  do they LIKE being stoned to death? or have their ears and noses cut off?   what i dont understand is why, if muslims hate america so much, do they come here?

  • Breeze

    -

    “Thus the new $1.5 million mosque in Tredyffrin is truly an American Dream for Mr. Aziz.

    Since joining the congregation in 1998, he said, it has more than doubled in size as technology professionals arrived in the area from India and Pakistan.”

    ———————————————————————————————-

    EDUCATION

    seems to be the key answer to the success and friendliness here.

    Also, it does not sound like there are too many Arabs in this congregation….

  • bamaLV

    i just recieved an email from a friend in NY that shows hundreds of muslims praying in the middle of madison ave. and holding up traffic for hours. they do this every day.   wish i knew how to post it but i dont.  wasnt there an incident recently where of a bunch of students  were chased off the capitol steps because they were saying the pledge of allegiance?whats becoming of this country???

  • Jackie

    And this is the crowd that drones on endlessly about the immaturity of Obama supporters.  Are you 9 years old, or what?

  • Breeze

    -

    ITALY