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Financial Crisis Is Bigger than You Think – some Quibbles and Bits 10/3

Pushed up by SusanUnPC — I will re-post Marc Rubin’s exceptional essay later today [in the early evening when everyone's home and can read it] — LisaB’s research needs to get up now because it’s so important and time-sensitive. See also: LisaB’s item below the fold on how the A.P. shifted news stories — the MSM is ethically bankrupt. Now, for LisaB:

1)There will be way too many stories about last night’s debate for me to bother with them all or even a representative sample. Today, I’m going to see what other news is out there. For my money, a story from the Telegraph (UK) is the biggest one of the day. As you may or may not know, Europe has seen this financial crisis as an American led / bred problem, filled with American greed and malfeasance. But this article shows something very different.

As we’ve all figured, this bailout / rescue / wealth transfer package is a LOT bigger than the general public understands so far. According to this piece, Paulson saved AIG largely because of European requests.

It took a weekend to shatter the complacency of German finance minister Peer Steinbrück. Last Thursday he told us that the financial crisis was an “American problem”, the fruit of Anglo-Saxon greed and inept regulation that would cost the United States its “superpower status”. Pleas from US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson for a joint US-European rescue plan to halt the downward spiral were rebuffed as unnecessary.

By Monday, Mr Steinbrück was having to orchestrate Germany’s biggest bank bail-out, putting together a €35 billion loan package to save Hypo Real Estate. By then Europe was “staring into the abyss,” he admitted. Belgium faced worse. It had to nationalise Fortis (with Dutch help), a 300-year-old bastion of Flemish finance, followed a day later by a bail-out for Dexia (with French help).
—————–
We now know that it was French finance minister Christine Lagarde who begged Mr Paulson to save the US insurer AIG last week. AIG had written $300 billion in credit protection for European banks, admitting that it was for “regulatory capital relief rather than risk mitigation”. In other words, it was underpinning a disguised extension of credit leverage. Its collapse would have set off a lending crunch across Europe as banking capital sank below water level.

It turns out that European regulators have allowed even greater use of “off-books” chicanery than the Americans. Mr Paulson may have saved Europe.

The author feels this crisis may threaten the EU as an entity.

The storyline is evolving much as eurosceptics predicted, yet the final chapter could end either way as the recriminations fly. Germany has already shot down the French idea. The nationalists are digging in their heels in Berlin and Madrid. We are fast approaching the moment when events decide whether Europe will bind together to save monetary union, or fracture into angry camps. Will the Teutons bail out Club Med? If not, check those serial numbers on your euro notes for the country of issue. It may start to matter.

While everyone worries about the vp debate last night, I think this may be the story of the day. If you are following the financial crisis, follow this as well.

2)However, there is an interesting debate-related bit at edgeoforever. It seems the AP posted a story after the debate and then almost immediately replaced it with another.

Here’s the original title, author and beginning:

Palin stands her ground in VP debate with Biden
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer 42 minutes ago

ST. LOUIS (AP) — Under intense scrutiny, Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin stood her ground Thursday night against a vastly more experienced Joe Biden, debating the economy, energy and global warming, then challenging him on Iraq, “especially with your son in the National Guard.”

After the above article was replaced, here’s what appeared in its place:

Biden, Palin spar on taxes, war and ‘change’

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
ST. LOUIS – Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden sparred over taxes, energy policy and the Iraq war in a high-profile debate in which Palin sought to reclaim her identity as a feisty reformer and Biden tried to undercut the maverick image of GOP presidential hopeful John McCain.

Palin, in the 90-minute forum broadcast Thursday night from Washington University in St. Louis, was under intense pressure to show basic competence on issues facing the next president after a series of embarrassing television interviews called into question her readiness for high office.

The original article had no obvious writing errors that might have led to its replacement. It might be argued that the first article was slightly too friendly to Palin, although if you read the entire thing, I’d disagree. The second one, though, changes the tone from possibly friendly to dismissive. That’s not a good editorial decision of bias is your problem. Bad on the AP.

Interested in reading both? NOLA.com has the original.

Yahoo.com has the replacement.

3) Also at the Telegraph (UK), someone got ahold of a confidential memo to the prime minister offering an assessment of BO as a potential US President. It starts with this:

Barack Obama is a “decidedly liberal” senator “who was finding his feet, and then got diverted by his presidential ambitions”, according to a frank verdict delivered to Gordon Brown by the British ambassador to the United States.

The letter is not negative or particularly positive, but is intended to give an overall assessment of Obama to the British government. It details strengths and weaknesses of the candidate.

Mr Obama “can seem to sit on the fence, assiduously balancing pros and cons”, Sir Nigel wrote, and “does betray a highly educated and upper middle class mindset”. Charges of elitism “are not entirely unfair” and he is “maybe aloof, insensitive” at times.

“He can talk too dispassionately for a national campaign about issues which touch people personally, eg his notorious San Francisco comments [in April] about small-town Pennsylvanians ‘clinging’ to guns and religion.”

Mr Obama’s Democratic primary victory over the former First Lady showed that “he is tough and competitive. This is of course the Chicago school.

You don’t beat Clinton without being resilient” but “his energy levels do dip and he can be uninspiring e.g. in debates”.

This is interesting because the author is trying to provide useful information rather than fawning press. His assessment of Obama is presented as dispassionately as possible because the British government, understandably, will want to know with whom they might be dealing.

Commentary feels this letter is more damning.

4) It appears to be Brit day here! The Independent (UK) also has a story bout the American financial crisis. And they note that Democrats bear a large share of the blame.

Of all the characteristics of a successful politician, none is more essential than bare-faced cheek. Never has this been more evident than in the past fortnight, as senior Democrat members of the US legislature have sought to lay all the blame for the country’s financial crisis on the executive arm of Government and Wall Street.

Neither of these two institutions is blameless – far from it. Yet when I see such senior Democrats as Barney Frank, Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, and Christopher Dodd, Chairman of the Senate’s Banking Committee, play the part of avenging angels – well, I can only stand in silent awe at the sheer tight-bottomed nerve of it. These are men with sphincters of steel.

What is the proximate cause of the collapse of confidence in the world’s banks? Millions of improvident loans to American housebuyers. Which organisations were on their own responsible for guaranteeing half of this $12 trillion market? Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the so-called Government Sponsored Enterprises which last month were formally nationalised to prevent their immediate and catastrophic collapse. Now, who do you think were among the leading figures blocking all the earlier attempts by President Bush – and other Republicans – to bring these lending behemoths under greater regulatory control? Step forward, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

“Sphincters of steel?” HA! Now that’s a verbal image for you. . . (WHY doesn’t the US press write such fun stuff?)

Apparently, the Independent has seen the youtube video of Democrats excoriating someone attempting to report on a lack of regulation on Fannie and Freddy. The article briefly notes the words of Maxine Waters, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Watch here if you want to see more players in the Dem drama.

Then the Telegraph has this:

One of the few journalists to see where this would lead was Jeff Jacoby, of the Boston Globe. Last week he reminded his readers what he had written in 1995: “Our banks are knowingly approving risky loans to get the feds and the activists off their backs… When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today’s self-congratulating bankers, politicians and regulators plans to take the credit?”. Jacoby adds now: “Barney Frank doesn’t. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco.”

It’s true that the improvident lending was not initiated by Fannie and Freddie: their role in this was to buy these loans and sell them on – but then the music stopped. Cynical students of the American political system will note that the biggest recipient of campaign contributions from the munificent duo of Fannie and Freddie over the past 20 years was one Christopher Dodd, Democrat Chairman of the Senate’s Banking Committee.

Rather surprisingly, given that he has only been in the Senate for four of those years, the second biggest beneficiary was Barack Obama. In August the Washington Post reported that Obama’s presidential campaign team had sought the advice of Franklin Raines “on mortgage and housing policy matters”. Perhaps Mr Obama’s team just wanted to know where all the bodies are buried – there are rather a lot of them.

Yikes!!! Bodies and sphincters! I don’t have enough coffee to deal with this.

5) Newser.com (originally from the LA Times) has the story about California needing $7 billion from the U.S. treasury. Finally, the financial crisis story starts to make some sense to me.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, alarmed by the ongoing national financial crisis, warned Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson on Thursday that the state might need an emergency loan of as much as $7 billion from the federal government within weeks.

The warning comes as California is close to running out of cash to fund day-to-day government operations and is unable to access routine short-term loans that it typically relies on to remain solvent.

The state of California is the biggest of several governments nationwide that are being locked out of the bond market by the global credit crunch. If the state is unable to access the cash, administration officials say, payments to schools and other government entities could quickly be suspended and state employees could be laid off.

Plans by several state and local governments to borrow in recent days have been upended by the credit freeze. New Mexico was forced to put off a $500-million bond sale, Massachusetts had to pull the plug halfway into a $400-million offering, and Maine is considering canceling road projects that were to be funded with bonds.

Even governments love the holiday shopping season.

It’s customary for California to borrow billions of dollars at the start of the fiscal year to fill its coffers until the usual flood of sales tax receipts comes in after Christmas and income tax receipts arrive in the spring.

6) The Financial Times has several pieces about the financial crisis gripping Europe and the rest of the world. I realize this stuff may not be your cup of joe, but it is important to get a sense of where the edges are in this crisis. There are some who say Europe may be even more leveraged than the US. This article starts out by noting the dollar is slightly back up (although still not good).

Analysts say part of the reason for the dollar’s rally is that US legislators appeared to have hammered out a rescue deal.

However, equally importantly for the dollar, have been events in the European banking sector, with the nationalisation of Fortis in the eurozone and Bradford & Bingley in the UK focusing attention on the region’s problems.

Analysts say in contrast to the US, the approach of European policy makers appears to lack direction.

This is all the more concerning since by some measures such as assets to shareholder equity, many of the large European banks seem more leveraged than the top US banks.

Moreover, some European banks are large relative to their home country’s GDP, making it difficult for their respective countries to nationalise them without assistance from other countries.

The US government’s $700bn rescue plan is about 5 per cent of US GDP, but according to estimates, Deutsche Bank’s total liabilities are about 80 per cent of Germany’s GDP, Barclay’s total liabilities are almost as large as the UK’s GDP, and Fortis’ liabilities are roughly three-times bigger than Belgium’s GDP.

This last part is particularly important. Deutsche Bank’s liabilities are nearly equal to the sum of the entire German Gross Domestic Production. Holy cow! That’s kind of like having a $95,000 house note due all at once on an annual salary of $ 119,000.

And a good morning to you too!!

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulFVillarreal Paul F. Villarreal

    This entire financial fiasco, much as it hurts to say it, is at the feet of the Dems. There’s no way around that. If this weren’t the case, there would have already been hearings, like with Enron. That there are not tells you all you need to know.

    Freddie, Fannie, etc. are Dem messes, and they are scandalous.

    • JoseyJ

      Exactly!
      In 2006, Dems promised they’d provided needed OVERSIGHT!
      But as soon as they won – Dodd became Chairman of the Banking and Housing committee – and began running for president!

      Obama has NEVER bucked the Dems - and Dodd and Frank will STILL be running the show.
      No thanks! we need checks and balances.

      Dem Congress with Pres. McCain!

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulFVillarreal Paul F. Villarreal

        You got it, Josey J! Checks and balances, balanced Executive/Congress between parties. That’s what Americans have always traditionally favored.

        Here’s the YouTube of the Frank Luntz focus group immediately after the debate showing an overwhelming Palin victory over haggard Washington insider Joe Biden:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vyXaHhEsg

        Please favorite this and pass it around to as many people as possible. The initial viewership numbers from last night were enormous, so the MSM will be in full ‘destroy Palin’ mode. Already, bogus CNN, NBC and CBS polls are trying to say people thought Biden won. Garbage. Get this video out and help spread the truth the media doesn’t want people to see. The MSM wants to brainwash the electorate. Help fight that abuse.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulFVillarreal Paul F. Villarreal

          Another new one. Dick Morris rips Alan Colmes apart with his words after Palin’s resounding win. Great stuff:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8k2yD-tI0g

          Pass this around as well, please. Now is OUR time.

          • Jonny

            Nothing like praising the most vile Clinton-hater of all on what used to be a site to support her.

            Good to see you’re no longer trying to hide the fact that NONE of you care about Hillary.

            Hooray Dick Morris.

            Why don’t you ask Dick where Chelsea was on September 11th?

            Why don’t you read his fantastic book, “Rewriting History?”

            Also, his comments in Hillary the Movie were GREAT.

            Also, you are aware that it is DICK MORRIS who started the “Bill Clinton is a racist” idea after he made his comment about Jesse Jackson in South Carolina.

            • Ai1een

              Jonny –

              You and I agree on something – DICK MORRIS IS A FAT SLOB AND A REVOLTING LIAR TO BOOT. Why FOX News continues to employ him while at the same time spewing how fair and balanced they are is beyond me, but – as they’re the most balanced amongst the swine of our current corrupt propagandist media – we are forced to watch.

              However – you might want to get your facts straight before you come to NQ and try to lecture here because you look embarrassingly stupid.

              For the record, it was actually Jesse Jackson, Jr. who went on Morning Joe MSNBC the morning after Hillary Clinton’s win in New Hampshire and said:

              “Hillary’s tears were racist. Did she ever cry for the people of Katrina? Those tears were racist.” ((??????????????????????)

              That was the official beginning of OBAMA’s vile race baiting in his ongoing sleazy, lying, “bamboozling” campaign.

              And incidentally Johnny – Hillary should have responded back to Jesse Jackson, Jr. that indeed she and Bill HAD cried over Katrina, but after they cried they didn’t just go back to their lives as usual and ignore the people of Katrina – they, in fact, donated an assload of their personal money to go towards rebuilding Katrina and the Clinton Foundation also did work helping to rebuild New Orleans.

              Barack Hussein Obama…NOT ONE SINGLE DIME…NOT ONE SINGLE CENT. Yep – what, approx. 95% of the vicims were AA and Barack Hussein Obama didn’t give them one cent. Are you surprised? You shouldn’t be – he never gave one cent of his money to the AA in Chicago’s Southside (aka HIS CONSTITUENCY!!!) either. He had a school named after him in Africa that he said in front of reporters (of course) that he would support when he returned home to the U.S and …low and behold – he has, to date, over a year and a half later, not sent them one cent – just like he never sent his half brother one cent. Prior to running for President – Barack and Michelle gave LESS THAN 1 % of their money to charity.

              But – yeah – get it straight Jonny – Jesse Jackson, Jr.CAN OFFICIALLY CLAIM CREDIT FOR BEING THE STARTER OF THE OBAMA RACE BAITING CAMPAIGN.

      • workingclass artist

        PELOSI & REID…HAVE GOT TO GO!
        I’m just sayin’

        • vdavisson

          Get rid of Dodd while you are at it:

          Man who destroyed AIG an Obama-Dodd man

          One of the posts says this:

          “Sen. Dodd has been rewarded in the 2008 election cycle with $7.65 million in campaign contributions —
          he took in $11.7 million in all — from the securities, insurance, real-estate and commercial-banking industries, according to his latest Federal Election Commission filing posted at opensecrets.org.

          Sen. Dodd’s list of donors reads like a who’s who of who’s in the stew:

          Citigroup, $310,294;
          SAC Capital Partners, $282,000;
          United Technologies, $263,400;
          AIG, $224,678;
          Bear Stearns, $205,600;
          St. Paul Travelers, $205,400;
          Royal Bank of Scotland, $203,750;
          Goldman Sachs, $175,600;
          Morgan Stanley, $155,000;
          Credit Suisse, $154,550;
          Merrill Lynch, $134,950;
          The Hartford, $94,350;
          Bank of America, $91,300
          JPMorgan Chase, $129,150;
          USB, $101,900;
          Hartford Finance Services, $101,500
          Lehman Brothers, $128,400;
          KPMG, $113,100;
          General Electric, $108,250;
          Deloitte Touche, $108,000

          With $165,400, Sen. Dodd also tops the list of members of Congress who took campaign cash from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac since 1989.

    • Jackie

      Democrats for Principles above Party put this together. They need donations to get it on air. I sent $500 to them. Do you think everyone on this site could give $10 to help them?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etJtGEm8vLY

      And in the mean time can we try to make it a viral video.

      THANKS FOLKS

    • lark

      The fiasco may be at the foot of the Dems, but how about the bankruptcy of the U.S. now as in the form of a bailout bill will be at the foot of the Dems or both?

      How would the market react to completely new economic and market paradigms as the bill is intended to usher.

      Yes, all the books on economic will have to be rewritten for the next generation of college graduates.

      More so, how would you like if the house next to yours would be reassessed for a value or price adjusted to the homeowner’s income ability to pay.

      Say you are a typical American with a 160K home at current declining values. Lets say that your neighbor makes minimum wage and the bank will renegotiate his mortgage by adjusting the principal of his mortgage to whatever he can afford to pay at (being generous) 36 percent of his income. Suppose that it makes the house assessed at 65K (being generous).

      Would you like that? Suppose you need to sell your house. How much will your house be worth?

      Suppose that two years after you sold your house at a huge lost, your good neighbor sells his for 150K, making a profit of 85K. Would you send him a congratulatory note?

      Do you think goods should be priced at whatever the buyer can afford at the time?

      Should I be able to go to Home Depot with 10.00 and bargain for myself a Whirlpool double door stainless steel refrigerator because that’s all I can afford today?

      Enter our new world of forgiveness of debts, reassessing home values in accordance with occupant’s income and other similar good marketing practices.

    • Ai1een

      Paul –
      2 years ago when McCain proposed more regulation on the Senate floor – would that not have been recorded on C-Span? It would be great to find a clip of that and use it in a McCain Commercial.

    • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

      “This entire financial fiasco, much as it hurts to say it, is at the feet of the Dems.”

      You have anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.

      My first culprit in this mess is the American people. You cannot cheat an honest man. You all were so overcome with your possessions, the pursuit of wealth by avoiding taxes, screwing the country’s infrastructure and environment by cashing in these assets, sending jobs overseas to shore up the sort term P/E rations and spending every goddamn cent you earned or borrowed that you brought it upon yourselves. You are currently in stage 1: Denial.

      My second culprit is Ronald Reagan. “The Speech” worked so well that he became it’s caricature and lost the plot. Bush Sr. was right, it was all Voodoo Economics. But Reagan put power first and country second, especially when he torpedoed the Department of Energy programs and tore Jimmy Carter’s solar panels off the White House roof in a show of photo-op and sound-bite bravado. Then, just when you’d think that he couldn’t do more to destroy the country, he bought off a handful of Oklahoma and Texas Boll Weevil Democrats (all Republicans by ’88) and started the mega-deficit spiral that just came home to roost and drop doo-doo on your doorstep.

      My third culprit is the Republican Party. Bush Sr. knew that supply side was all smoke and mirrors well before he succeeded Reagan. The wise men of the Republican Party knew it very early in the Reagan Administration too when David Stockman jumped ship. Power was their aim: Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, even when laced with hemlock.

      That’s the sugar-coated version.

  • Galt, Master Thrall of Triskelion

    Europe has seen this financial crisis as an American led / bred problem, filled with American greed and malfeasance.

    Greed and malfeasance are a global if not universal problem with primitive species like human beings..

  • tbww

    The “Democrats Can Defeat Obama…” post by Denver Group disappeared.

    • Ani

      See Susan’s note above — Marc Rubins’s piece will return here later this afternoon.

      It was important to get Lisa’s news round up to you first.

      • workingclass artist

        THANKS Ani…I was wonderin about that.
        The Brits have been writing about the bailout bailing out British banks. Which I think i interesting. The MSMPORN manipulation is gettin so extreme as to remind me of the Yellow Journalism that Teddy Roosevelt crusaded against….Sheeesh! Thanks Lisa for another informative article. NQ ROCKS!

        TIMENDI CAUSA EST NESCIRE
        IGNORANCE IS THE CAUSE OF FEAR

  • Jackarooty

    I’ll be very surprised if the bill gets through the House today. The longer it stalls the better it is for Obama. I smell something bad.

    • JoseyJ

      Better for Obama if the bill fails?
      How?

      • Jackarooty

        It keeps the failed economy front and center in the headlines. The conversation is unable to moev beyond it.

    • WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName

      Yes, I’m not disagreeing here but please explain why you think if the bill does not get passed it’s better for the Plastic Jesus.

      • JoseyJ

        Maybe because the Economy will stay on the front pages longer – and possibly help Oblahma.

        • waldenpond

          It is an opportunity for the Dems to keep blaming Bush and an opportunity to bash McCain for not being a ‘leader’ and getting Repubs on board to vote for something McCain voted for.

          Also, Palin has given some attention to the McCain campaign. The media will use the opportunity to ‘disappear’ Palin and use the economy to against McCain.

          • Jackarooty

            Exactly! Thank you! It’s just one of my tin hat theories that Pelosi is prolonging it intentionally.

          • lark

            The bill will pass today. It will give McCain a shield and actually show him as a good example of action and show Obama poorly in comparison.

    • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

      I’ll be very surprised if the bill gets through the House today.

      SURPRISE!!!

      “I smell something bad.”

      With the Michigan pullout you smell fear.

      McCain will need to go very, very negative.

  • http://budwhite.wordpress.com/ Bud White

    great summary. I think Gordon Brown and his people are astute.

  • Kristen

    “Yikes!!! Bodies and sphincters! I don’t have enough coffee to deal with this.”

    TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!

  • wodiej

    I wholeheartedly agree that the Dem’a and their socialistic, far left liberal antics caused most of this. While the Republicans tried to pass regulations, Dem’s refused. Acorn is heavily involved in how this entire subprime mortgage mess got started! Barack Obama was training people who then would storm welfare offices and banks demanding loans and welfare for low income people who otherwise did not qualify. Obama is DIRTY, DIRTY, DIRTY. People better FRIGGIN’ WAKE UP.

    • WIldChild

      While the Republicans tried to pass regulations, Dem’s refused.

      The we don’t need the government tellin us what to do crowd tried to pass regulations and the dems refused? LMAO you’re kidding right? You all need to think about what your saying before this conversion steps off into the twilight zone.

      • wodiej

        you are not paying attention! There was a video link on here a few days ago! In 2004 Republicans were speaking on the floor trying to get regulations passed. Every person against it was a Democrat! So, NO, I am not kidding.

        • WildChild

          LOL well, if you’re not kidding then you’re an idiot. I’ve been watching the republicans get things passed for the last eight years, even with the dems controlling congress. If they really want something passed they make a big stink and the dems cave. The republicans didn’t want new regulation on business passed then and they still don’t. The only thing that has happened is their deception plan worked and your dumb ass got played.

          • voteamerican

            Look dumbass, all you have to do is go back and listen to the debate. But then Like Oboomarang, you will deny what is taped, documented, and even on your screen and deny.

            • WildChild

              sorry dumb ass, I saw the debate. But more importantly I’ve watched the Republican party since Ronald Reagan got elected. This idea that the republicans want to regulate but the democrats don’t is pure bullshit. You might want to change your name to Serling. LOL and we have a catchy tune to play every time you show up.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

              • Perry Logan

                Logan’s Law: Republicans always screw up…then blame the Democrats. ;-)

            • Robert F.

              I haven’t seen the video you are talking about, but de-regulation has been one of the major pieces of the Republican platform since Reagan. The entire conservative economic policy depends on the free market working with as little governement intervention as possible – hence no regulation, oversight, etc.

              Show me a link and I’ll watch the video, but I find it hard to believe that anyone in their right mind can believe that this crisis was caused 100% by Democrats (or Republicans) for that matter.

              And to voteamerican – a lot of us here are still Democrats who believe in Democratic principles – we are just voting for McCain so we can vote for Hillary ’12.

              Take your anti-Democratic, right wing talking points elsewhere.

              • lidia

                Yes, sure, here is NO place for right-wingers LOL

                Some “old dem” here ALWAYS loved Reagan (as a person, sure. I suppose one could be a war criminal and mass-murederer as Reagan was and still be OK – after all, he was white). FOX, Karl Rove and other “liberals” are wellcom here, while dem party is called “far left” LOL

                By the way, the paper Telegraph is a Tory one. But what the problem? If somebody hates Obama enough – one is a friend LOL

                (I do not qualify, because I think Obama is NO BETTER then McCain)

                Anyway, I suppose people who still think that

                Economy will stay on the front pages longer

                ONLY as a result of Obama machinations deserve what they would get.

                I have news (REAL) for you – the world capitalism is in a system crisis. Fat cats (including dems and reps politics) will manage. The dupes like Palin admirers will pay.

              • bart

                sheeesh!

                The video is in this post! Go look above.

          • waldenpond

            If the Repubs got what they wanted out of this bill, doesn’t that mean your Dem spineless sleazebags in the Senate got played? Unless of course, the Dems were bailing out their buddies, but that couldn’t have happened because your Dems are looking out for you.

            History is your friend. Do your research before you defend the Dems on snuggling up to corporate America while sniggering behind their dirty hands knowing they were going to stiff us for the bill their political donors charged.

            The Dems wanted cheap loans for people who couldn’t afford it. They have as much blame as the rest.

          • wodiej

            NO, I am not an idiot nor a “dumbass”. The you tube video was posted on here. Perhaps you were absent from class that day.

            I did not say Republicans were faultless, but neither are the Democrats.

            • WildChild

              I see you’re trying to switch the argument from ideology to fault. Sorry bubbles but that is a non starter. The republicans are wholeheartedly against regulating the private sector and continue to speak in those terms today. LOL But honestly the only thing worse then dealing with the supercharged emotional hysteria of the left with kool-aid junkie is dealing with the complete disengagement from reality of the right wing kool-aid junkie. By the way? (LMAO)What flavor are they serving today at the revival?

          • andySF

            I don’t think it’s a case of regulation. The Dem want to pander to lower income group and the minority group by influencing the credit market. The Rep don’t like that and want to let the free market work.

            So no, it’s not about regulation. It’s about the Rep want to get politic influence on the credit market out of the picture, which is another form of deregulation. But the truth is, the mess we have now is the fail policy of flushing money in bad loans and have us the tax payer holding the bag.

            The blame goes to both parties. And the economic failure fall clearly on the shoulder of GWB. On the other hand, the Dem is no longer a party of the center left Clinton party. The are just a flip side of the Rep coin.

            • WildChild

              The mistake that you are making is buying into the line of bullshit put out by the credit industry that this is all because of a few risky loans to the poor. There aren’t enough sub-prime loans out there to collapse the whole credit market even if they all foreclosed. They only make up about 5 or 6 percent of the whole.

          • athy
            • WildChild

              cheesy youtube videos? really?

        • Jackie

          The regs that the RNC was trying to repeal were not over housing mortgage oversite. THey were not Banking regulations.

          THe video was not about the roots of the current crisis.

          This nasty little mess belongs to the DEMS support of organizations like ACORN and making banks give loans that are bound to fail. THank Obama & his law suit for forcing more bank to make ugly loans.

          • athy

            Jackie-
            to your point:

            http://www.justsaynodeal.com/acorn.html

            (Schematic of players (inc ACORN, SOROS et al… & process)

          • Perry Logan

            Also to your point: Media Matters debunks false accusations about ACORN:

            In recent days, media figures have accused Democrats of attempting to direct millions of dollars in government money to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in the financial bailout bill. The accusation is false. Neither the draft proposal nor the final version of the bill contained any language mentioning ACORN. Those making the false claim were misrepresenting a provision — since removed — that would have directed 20 percent of any profits realized on troubled assets purchased under the plan into two previously established funds: the Housing Trust Fund and the Capital Magnet Fund.

            http://mediamatters.org/items/200810010019?f=h_top

      • JoseyJ

        No – it’s true.
        But Obamabots are pushing lies that the Repubs never sought regulation for Fannie and Freddie.

        Yet another reason to vote for McCain/Palin – OBAMA pushes LIES!

    • voteamerican

      If after you buy your dream home and then a couple of years later think you gave too much for the home, what do you do about it? Last night Biden said “he and Obama support allowing the courts to adjust the principle you owe on your home”.
      Maybe we can get the courts to drop the price we paid for our cars too while we are at it. LOL!

      • waldenpond

        How about covering second mortgages that were for vactions and new cars for the kiddies?

        Credit card debt for x-boxes, cell phones and designer clothes and for people who are forced to eat out for every meal as they don’t know how to cook? Please, please, please?

        If we can’t live on credit, the rest of the world would no longer be able to mock us. I can’t imagine the tragedy of having a society based on assets. We can’t have that.

      • lark

        The funny thing is that it will not take a judge but ACORN and similar entities will be empowered by the Treasure to do it. Welcome to Microeconomics 101 the revise textbook 2009. A requisite for this class. And no books published before 2009 will be allowed in class.

    • workingclass artist

      The only folks that hated the Centrist Clintons more than the Far right…were the Far Left.
      WJC reformed welfare…Tried to shift the platform to the center….and won over the “Reagan Democrats”
      The DNC has dismissed us as no longer necessary or desirable…
      Once again (Liberal & Progressive) have been HIJACKED by extremists…What a joke!
      The Democrats deserve to lose…The Party built by FDR has been taken over by corrupt lunatics and the Great American Middle knows it…imho…

  • voteamerican

    Who won? Sarah or Joe? So far it is Sarah Palin 68.8%—Joe Biden 14.3%. Go and VOTE
    http://www.capecodonline.com/

  • hadenough

    The house is debating the bailout right now on c-span.

    Watch on-line at c-span.org

  • http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/19/can-the-msm-get-over-its-precious-self/#comments Steven

    The MSN media was the true loser of the VP debate.By saying Palin didn’t do well they are proving to viewers that they are very capable of lying directly to the people of the USA.

    • Jonny

      The only two scientific polls, by CNN and CBS, taken of a randomly chosen representative sample of the American people BOTH showed that they believed that Biden won the debate.

      That’s as close as we can get to seeing what the “American people” thought about this debate.

      You loonies don’t represent the American people

      • Jackie

        Yes I do represent the American People. I represent the demographic that nobody calls. I a am white middle class stay-at-home mom.

        ANd there were 74 more of us at the pub who thought Palin will be a great classy VP.

        Unlike Joe who LIED or “misspoke” no less than 12 times.

      • Firefly

        The media narrative for weeks leading up to the debate – by very deliberate design – has been that Sarah Palin is an incompetent, rather stupid, silly lightweight who not only has no business being VP, she didn’t even have any business being in the same debate as the esteemed Senator Joe Biden.

        The media have been doing everything they could to force this meme down the throats of Americans.

        So, Sarah Palin debated Joe Biden last night and she PUT THE LIE to everything the media and the dems have ben trying to bamboozle the American electorate with. Palin was NO LIGHTWEIGHT – Palin proved herself to be a heavy hitter – Palin proved herself to be THE ANTITHESIS OF THE MEDIA’S PORTRAYAL OF HER.

        So, not only did Sarah Palin win last night’s debate on points, she stuck it to everyone who’s tried so very hard to dismiss and humiliate her – by dismissing and humiliating them – in a nice, friendly, approachable way, of course.

        Doesn’t matter what kind of “win” the 0bamamedia try to buy for their messiah, THEY LOST and SARAH PALIN WON. The dems and the media keep denying that at their peril.

      • WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName

        I beg your pardon…CNN and CBS are not “scientific” but are owned and manipulated.

        I am about as mainstream an American as you can get, a 55 y/o while female, a lifelong Dem, a Methodist, an ardent Hillary supporter and a mom.

        Let me tell you something, the “average” American is NOT a Harvard educated, elitist, arugala chewing, trust-endowed Unitarian…

        “Oh-Mama” Sarah Palin rocked and she gets this middle American’s vote hands down!

      • educatedwhitewoman

        CNN? The channel Obama tells his supporters to watch and which always rates much lower than FOX in the ratings, and has a much higher percentage of Democratic viewers? Also, it was discovered that in the last MSNBC online presidential debate poll, a huge percentage of the people casting votes were foreigners. CNN is watched by more foreigners than Americans, IMO. Whenever I travel, it is the only American station I find.

      • Will Smith

        The trolls will be out in full affect today.

        THE TROLLS ARE COMING!
        THE TROLLS ARE COMING!

    • athy

      Steven,
      I agree.
      People are beginning to finally trust their own eyes and ears and use common sense to decide for themselves.

      The msm has been trying to convince us that what we THOUGHT we saw and heard was not what really happened-and only they know what really happened.

  • Jackie

    The EU is not as strong as it would like the world to believe nor is the EURO.

    I posted earlier this week comments from my dad’s vistit to Switzerland and Germany over the weekend thru Wednesday.

    The EU is desperate for a bill from Congress. Even a bad one. In the minds of the EU they will fail without US leadership. My dad says they were panicing. He was meeting with some leading financiers in an effort to negotiate a business agreement.

    The bankers pleaded with daddy to take the message to DC (we live in northern VA) to please tell everyone he can that the world markets need America to take a stand. Daddy said the desperation was palpable–akin to the Kuwaiti fear as the Iraqis were invading in 1990. (Dad has worked with the leaders of Kuwait for decades on defense issues and he was called as the forces were rolling accross the boarder)

    We are an amazing country and we will lead the world as we always do.

    • Pennsylvania goes RED!

      The EU is not as strong as it would like the world to believe nor is the EURO.

      I’ve heard from European relatives for some time about certain countries’ desire to be decoupled from the EU, for various reasons.

  • DeniseL

    America needs to get off all the credit. It’s like crack or something. Why pay interest for everything? Obviously, the best advice for the average consumer is to pay off their balance each month so that they pay no interest. It used to be that local and state governments would use credit only for very large projects. Now it seems to be a day to day thing.

    I wonder how much money would be saved in this nation if local and state governments quit mainlining the credit?

    • wodiej

      exactly, our federal budget has trillions in interest because the deficit/borrowing is so high. I say a halt on borrowing for consumers abd businesses wouldn’t hurt. But unfortunately they will go under wo it. I don’t know what the answer is.

      • Perry Logan

        I don’t know what the answer is.

        Just put Bill Clinton in there. :)

        He cleaned up Bush I’s financial mess. Maybe he can fix Bush II’s even bigger mess

        • andySF

          That would be true have the current Dem not screwed up so badly by giving us voter the worst choice possible. Any Clinton will do.

    • http://medusa2.wordpress.com Medusa

      I love the Brits and their assessments of American politicians. Funny as heck!

      Thanks for the roundup, LisaB.

      And great video, Paul.

      Sarahcuda rocked!

    • Talk2ThePaw

      I do believe that Palin mentioned this last night. That it is time for Americans to stop living above their means. Credit has become a drug, years ago people would never have over-extended themselves as they do on a daily basis now. Time to get back to the essentials.

  • http://www.governuts.us Agust304

    Crash vs What?

    We have heard a lot about what will happen if the $700 Billion is not made available. Has anyone yet told us what WILL happen when it does? Have banks signed promises to expand access FOR AMERICANS to extended credit? Have Wall Street firms agreed to take a break from acting like mortgage and loan companies? Have the lenders backing student loans PROMISED that second installment deposits will be made before next semester?

    I have heard a lot about how hard the sky will fall if we do NOT give them this bail out. I would now like to hear what WILL happen if we do.

    • lark

      Crash vs. Deflation. Of course you don’t want to buy a new flat screen TV for 50.00 because that would mean you like cheap stuff.

  • DanNY

    I would be surprised if the Republicans put their party’s ass on the line for the Democrats pork bail out. Especially after we all have seen the MSM in the tank for Obama and the Democrats.

    Don’t be stool pigions Republicans – go ahead and fix one thing at a time until a clear and sane compromise is can be found.

    Don’t bail anyone out with a tank full of pork!!!

  • alibe

    I think Barack Nobama thought he was on the Banking Committee because he got so much money from Fannie and Freddie!

  • csuzeq

    off topic

    I just told an Obot re: Obama

    I’m glad you looked under the hood and are satisfied that it’s a runner. When I looked under that hood, the engine was missing!

  • Mercedes

    This collection of news stories raise a couple of questions in my mind.

    First of all, I know very little about finance. So I have been searching for some explanation of why this “crisis in confidence” is occurring at this particular point in time. And, also, what is the mechanism driving it? I get the part about too little assets to back up the credit extended on bad mortgages, but what specific event precipitated the apparently widespread domino effect? Are these effects unexpected or out of anybody’s control? Did the oil speculation earlier this summer have anything to do with it?

    I am convinced the Democrats are behind the mortgage crisis, but what effect does the war in Iraq have? We are dumping billions of dollars down a bottomless pit there. Does the Army’s Homeland Brigade duty tour starting October 1st have anything to do with anticipated effects of this crisis?

    Also, I thought the excerpt published by the Telegraph of the memo about Obama to the British Prime Minister was interesting. A person just reading this website and a few others could come to those same conclusions. I would be really surprised and disappointed if the British and US governments did not have intimate details on Mr Obama. I read someplace recently that the success in Iraq had something to do with the ability to eavesdrop and monitor select Iraqis. Certainly, that ability could be extended to political candidates. The voters need to know the real scoop on Obama, not just somebody’s armchair portrait.

    Has anybody ever noticed the watch Obama wears? It looks just like ones advertised online which are supposed to serve various security purposes.

    The British, the Americans, the Israelis, the Russians, the Chinese probably all know all kinds of good stuff on Obamessiah. Somebody needs to tell us and right now.

    • athy

      Mercedes,
      good points.
      Interesting comment about the eavesdropping.
      If this occurs, I’ll bet Sen Obama would wish he could take back his FISA vote…

  • Touchet

    Are comments being moderated now?

  • athy

    LisaB
    Thanks for this excellent roundup and for the very interesting discussions it has generated!
    Too much to be ignored…

  • lark

    The fiasco may be at the foot of the Dems, but how about the bankruptcy of the U.S. now as in the form of a bailout bill will be at the foot of the Dems or both?

    How would the market react to completely new economic and market paradigms as the bill is intended to usher.

    Yes, all the books on economic will have to be rewritten for the next generation of college graduates.

    More so, how would you like if the house next to yours would be reassessed for a value or price adjusted to the homeowner’s income ability to pay.

    Say you are a typical American with a 160K home at current declining values. Lets say that your neighbor makes minimum wage and the bank will renegotiate his mortgage by adjusting the principal of his mortgage to whatever he can afford to pay at (being generous) 36 percent of his income. Suppose that it makes the house assessed at 65K (being generous).

    Would you like that? Suppose you need to sell your house. How much will your house be worth?

    Suppose that two years after you sold your house at a huge lost, your good neighbor sells his for 150K, making a profit of 85K. Would you send him a congratulatory note?

    Do you think goods should be priced at whatever the buyer can afford at the time?

    Should I be able to go to Home Depot with 10.00 and bargain for myself a Whirlpool double door stainless steel refrigerator because that’s all I can afford today?

    Enter our new world of forgiveness of debts, reassessing home values in accordance with occupant’s income and other similar good marketing practices.

    • andySF

      I think a simple clause of this have to be a owner lived in house for a certain number of years will do. Just as they do with first time home buyer program here in SF(if you and your family don’t live in the home for 27 years, the govt can take back the amount in % and take the profit). That will prevent them from profiting from Tax payer as well as their own mistake. It will also help save homes for those who aren’t speculating.

      It also help the person who’s being responsible. Can you imagine the devaluation of the homes in a area where a lot of homes are being foreclosed? It will depress the market and leave those responsible people who live within their means to lose their home and life time saving in their equity.

      • lark

        There are many ways around it but your idea actually prolongs the effect on the area prices.

        • andySF

          I don’t think that the dropping of home price are a good thing for average people. The cost of construction will be higher than the devalued homes. And average people’s entire life saving rest on their home equity, and for those who are close to retirement, it’s a huge blow.

          If you factor in the cost of living, wages and interest rate(it’s still only half of what they were in the Reagan years), it’s still cheaper to own today than they were in the 80s.

          I am actually one of those who will benefit from a housing market down turn( as I have told my friend in the last couple of years). I own rental properties in SF that had seen rent gone up more than 20% during the housing problem. When people stop buying homes, they turn to rent and drive up rent. I had fixed mortgage rate at under 6% on all of the loans. It just broke my heart to see people at where I was no long ago having to lose everything because of the greed of wall street, because of irresponsible home buyers and useless government. I had seen what the Realtors and bank did to average folks who have no idea how the mortgage and home purchase work. They were lied to and manipulated into making purchase that they should not have.

          In the case of credit market meltdown worldwide, nobody’s job is safe, nobody’s retirement saving is safe. It may not be as simple as tax dollar figure. The market had lost a lot more that 700bn over the last few weeks, and many of people’s retirement saving is in the market, not just the wealthy. The wealthy will still have plenty to live a lavish life while average people edging closer to poverty. The same average people who will lose the chance of a better life for themselves and their families.

  • lark

    The law of unintended consequences. Can this bill do exactly the opposite of what is intended to do?

    I have no idea.

  • bayareavoter

    thanks, LisaB for the round-up. Much appreciated by those of us who can’t read it all!

    Lark, my jaw dropped when I heard they want to be able to re-negotiate the PRINCIPLE! That just seems so outrageous.

    I’d like my principle re-negotiated, too. We’ve been paying our mortgage for ten years and I think we’ve paid enough. So why not just give me the deed already?

    What are these people smoking?

    • lark

      I think these ideas may create so much confusion that they may just have a dampening effect. They seem a nightmare. How are they going to apply in your state versus in my state? Oh my God. I don’t understand.

    • CheatedFLVoter

      If my neighbors’ house had it’s principle renegotiated, wouldn’t that deflate the value of the whole neighborhood?

      • lark

        I have no idea. I suppose that the Treasure can impose a lien against the reduced principal or gap. But then how will the market react to your neighbor’s property having a lien by the Treasury? I suppose something like that could work, but then it could not work because who’s going to buy the house if the lien is on the property itself. Can it be a personal property lien? I don’t think so.

        And who would improve a house that has a lien by the Treasury? I think no one. In which case it would make the house depreciate in real terms. I get more and more confused as I think of what’s going on.

  • Ai1een

    Thanks LisaB –

    Good to see the talented Jeff Jacoby get much deserved recognition. If more journalists & politicians had his integrity we would not be in this mess today.

    Then the Telegraph has this:

    One of the few journalists to see where this would lead was Jeff Jacoby, of the Boston Globe. Last week he reminded his readers what he had written in 1995: “Our banks are knowingly approving risky loans to get the feds and the activists off their backs… When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today’s self-congratulating bankers, politicians and regulators plans to take the credit?”. Jacoby adds now: “Barney Frank doesn’t. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco.”

  • Northwest rain

    Excellent summary.

    Who knew that Europe was also using some of the same “greedy” American style banking practices?

  • lark

    Well we are going to have to live with the consequences of this bill.

    Good luck people.

  • educatedwhitewoman

    Barney Frank is speaking now. Turned off the TV. I just can’t stand to listen to them all lie about what caused this mess. And to have the self-righteous Speaker of the House take credit for passing a bill she should have got her own members to pass 3 days ago (how many businesses went down the tube and how many jobs were lost in those 3 days?) and then, to tell us that Barney Frank will be holding hearings to hold those who caused this accountable. makes me want to puke.

    • andySF

      You should’ve seen what Bill O’Reilly did to him yesterday(called him a coward, lol). It was on Fox after the debate. I really don’t like O’Reilly, his an arrogant jerk most of the time. But he’s no shy about speaking his mind.

      Barney Frank really look pathetic.

  • portia9

    Someone please answer this simple question:

    Where did all the money go?

  • Where did all the money go?

    Where did all the money go? It’s a shell game, but basically during the past 8 years the very rich have gotten a whole lot richer.

    Here’s a link to an interesting graphic representation of how one wealthy person’s one year gain–represented as a stack of $100 bills–compares to that of a median-income family. First click the Zoom In button a couple of times until you see the average family’s 40-some thousand dollar stack of $100 bills on the 50 yard line; then click the Zoom Out button 5 times or so to see Bill Gates’ largest single year increase in cash.

    http://www.lcurve.org/

    “While the middle class has declined under President Bush’s reckless economic policies, the people on top have never had it so good. For the first seven years of Bush’s tenure, the wealthiest 400 individuals in our country saw a $670 billion increase in their wealth, and at the end of 2007 owned over $1.5 trillion in wealth. That is just 400 families, a $670 billion increase in wealth since Bush has been in office.

    “In our country today, we have the most unequal distribution of income and wealth of any major country on earth, with the top 1 percent earning more income than the bottom 50 percent and the top 1 percent owning more wealth than the bottom 90 percent. We are living at a time when we have seen a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the very wealthiest people in this country, when, among others, CEOs of Wall Street firms received unbelievable amounts in bonuses, including $39 billion in bonuses in the year 2007 alone for just the five major investment houses. We have seen the incredible greed of the financial services industry manifested in the hundreds of millions of dollars they have spent on campaign contributions and lobbyists in order to deregulate their industry so that hedge funds and other unregulated financial institutions could flourish. We have seen them play with trillions and trillions dollars in esoteric financial instruments, in unregulated industries which no more than a handful of people even understand. We have seen the financial services industry charge 30 percent interest rates on credit card loans and tack on outrageous late fees and other costs to unsuspecting customers. We have seen them engaged in despicable predatory lending practices, taking advantage of the vulnerable and the uneducated. We have seen them send out billions of deceptive solicitations to almost every mailbox in America.” (Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont–an Independent)

    • ziggy

      To my way of thinking, this puts Barack Obama’s suggestion that the wealthy should be paying significantly more taxes into much clearer perspective.

      Remember: John McCain plans to give additional huge tax cuts to the wealthy–reductions that greatly exceed those previously given to them by George W. Bush.

      How can this possibly be justified when the middle and working classes are struggling just to keep their heads above water, and we’re already running ruinous federal deficits?

  • Still Nervous

    The bail out bill–er, rescue package–has been passed by the House, reconciled with the Senate bill, and signed by Bush.

    So why is the DOW is still dropping?

  • justsomeone

    I’ve been reading Chris Martenson’s blog lately, just another PHD in economics…”commercial banks hold over 180 TRILLION in derivative debt…& JPMorgan holds 1/2 of it.” “Ron Paul says the total national value of outstanding derivatives is 1.1 QUADTrillion dollars…”