Undercover, Covert, and Classified (Also Hush Hush)

Don’t you remember the famous quote from a Bushy during the first term…something along the line of “We create our own reality” or close to that. These people believe their own bullshit Larry. Facts are what they concoct for the next press release. these are truly evil bastards and bitches. They are not stupid, they think we are stupid.

Larry Johnson writes: “It was very sad watching Georgia Congressman, Lynn Westmoreland, give the rest of America reason to believe that the South is inhabited with folks who are retarded versions of Gomer Pyle’s cousin, Goober.”

So you’re saying, [laughing] that Gomer was the sophisticated one?

When I saw Lynn Westmoreland at the hearing, and heard him ask Valerie what he no doubt felt were wonderfully probative questions like “are you a democrat?”, a deja vu bell was ringing insistently.

Then I had it: He’s the clown who co-sponsored legislation to display the Ten Commandments in the House and Senate, and famously was found to be somewhat unfamiliar with them when he got punked by Stephen Colbert.

Re-live the moment here:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/06/15.html#a8728

Vickie seems to have trouble with the distinction between being a covert agent and disclosure of a covert agent. Did she really work on that act? because she doesn’t seem to have a clue what it says.

And did Vickie also say that there needs to be a list of NOCs in a safe or a computer somewhere? Because that puts her in the category of ‘too stupid to be let out alone’. (Jeebus…!)

I need to amend my previous comment. Many of THEM are stupid. The ones pulling the strings are not. Continue your good work Larry. I don’t know how many of you were watching the hearing on C-Span but if you were you caught the look on Vicky’s face as she packed up the stuff. Looked as if she had swallowed a turd. I think Waxman’s closing remarks caused her a bit of personal concern. The color on my tube could have been off but I detected a shade of puke green.

MEP writes: “The color on my tube could have been off but I detected a shade of puke green.”

You’re not the only person who wondered if the Chroma Phase– That’s “Tint” for you non-video engineers–neded a bit of adjustment.

I know I did when I first got a load of Toensing’s hair. Hmm, appears to actually be of a color not found in nature.

It is a nice feeling that we have such dedicated public servants like Valerie Plame. Gives me a little more faith in our government (not the politcal side).

Maybe others can comment.
Why did the CIA allow Novak to write the story??? Was Harlow a political foil? Was Val hung out to dry by the CIA??

Wish her all the best in her new pursuit.

“Valerie Plame was betrayed by Bush Administration officials who played politics with her classified identity.”

I am starting to wonder if “reckless” is not too charitable a description of an attempt to actually get her bumped off or else to scare the living crap out of her. “Fair game” doncha know?

Larry
Do you support open congressional hearings for Sibel Edmonds. There seems to be connections between her case and Val’s area of expertise. Could you comment as to your take on the Edmond case?

Larry, thank you for writing this piece. Only those in denial can say she wasn’t covert now.

Hey everybody. Larry, would be interested in your take on what is being covered over at the Lake, in regards to EO 12958 (i just couldn’t get old Knodell’s face outta my mind you see)

It’s had me reading and snooping through other docs (right up at http://www.usdoj.gov/oip for all who like to pull back the curtain- mr murder?)- certainly, looking over E.O. 12356 which was revoked by 12958.

Make a cuppa tea (green? for today) or grab your favorite beverage and dig in…

Insta-de-calssification and other bedtime stories
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/03/17/insta-de-classification-and-other-bedtime-stories/

Has anyone yet gone over Victoria Toensing’s testimony and perused it for likely perjury? What are the chances that she would be charged?

BTW, Thanks again Larry for keeping the light lit.

Peter..”Has anyone gone over Victoria Toensing’s testimony” I have a feeling Rep. Waxman’s staff were doing that as she was speaking. Go back and check his comment about leaving the record open. That is about the time she swallowed the turd.

Larry,

the ‘bottom line’ — bush, cheney, rove, and libby are parties to ‘murder’, cold-blooded ‘murder’ of personas that cannot be named. the lives now permanently erased from the rolls of life. bush, cheny, rove, and libby are guilty of ‘treason’ against our nation — the ultimate betrayal of trust.

federal gallows anyone?

While probably 95% of the questions I would have wanted to ask of the people testifying yesterday were asked, and I give kudos to most of the Democrats there.

There was one question that wasn’t asked of Toensing.

She misrepresented the IIPA, saying it said somebody had to be STATIONED overseas, when the actual act says SERVING

She supposedly helped write it, so i’m curious why she messed that up (I think I know)

Big difference, and I wish she was called on it.

Stationed would leave most people to believe that they were permanantly assigned overseas.

Serving overseas would leave most people to believe that they work overseas occasionally.

Does Toensing want us to believe that if she goes overseas 3 months a year, that she is only protected during those 3 months. The other 9 months in the US she’s not protected.

Oh yah, another thing these twits can’t figure out, or try to confuse the issue.

The CIA can’t call Bob Novak and say, yes she’s a covert agent, please don’t publish it.

That’s just as much a crime as the people who leaked it to him in the first place.

What they can do, and what they did is to tell them in about 3 other ways, don’t publish that article.

Bob Novak has been around since the war of 1812 I think, i think he understands what it means when the CIA calls him about an article he’s about to publish warning him not to do so.

The look on Toensig’s face when Waxman said he was keeping the record open to fact check her statements was priceless.

Why didn’t anyone ask her what party she belonged to? You know, ask her about her partisan political activities, since some people at the hearing thought that mattered.

Thanks for writing this, Larry. It’s easy to be angry with these idiots, but it’s much better to laugh at them.

Ok- I know everyone’s not as nerdy as I- here’s an interesting little linky (re: what I posted above). Many seem focused on Vickie, but I still can’t get over the look on Knodell’s face…THAT is must-see tv; bring on MORE hearings!

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eo13292inout.html

focsle writes: “Why did the CIA allow Novak to write the story??? Was Harlow a political foil? Was Val hung out to dry by the CIA??”

The CIA fellow who spoke to Novak was in the catch-22 situation of being compelled by law to not divulge Valerie’s status to an unauthorized person (Novak) but at the same time somehow prevent that person from divulging the fact that she worked for the agency.

The balance he struck was to tell Novak, in the strongest terms he felt he was legally allowed to use, that damage would surely result from publication, and he even called Novak back to reinforce the point.

Novak has said that this isn’t how he remembers it. Novak says that a lot.

One thing that was completely absurd about Toensing’s testimony, was her suggestion that it is incumbent on the CIA to inform those with classification of who is covert or otherwise.

Isn’t it incumbent on those with classification clearance , to find this out themselves as responsible conduct?

And finally, if Plame was not covert, and her outting of no consequence, why then is Brewster Jennings no longer operational?

Some right wing hacks will argue that her cover had been compromised by a Russian spy, but there was no way that any of those involved in the leak would have known about her status being compromise without knowing she was covert to begin with.

Yeah, Uppity Gal… I get into thaqt nerdy stuff too, at times. Knodell din’t know whether to sheet or get off the pot!!! Did anyone else notice how he kept looking over his right shoulder??? looked like he was looking to someone for HELP… Who was he eyeing so much??? Lying buzzards, he and ToesRing…

Ha! so you noticed it too? (being snarky- he was so freakin uncomfortable. it’s been too long since we’ve seen that; I guess I’d forgotten “that” look)

here’s some more RANT worthy stuff…swings back around to some other things Larry and others here have hinted at before.

WHY is nothing being said about Sy Hersh’s article of 5 March in The New Yorker?
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

Great post here, asking just that:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=174764
AGHHHHHH!

I wonder if Vicky T. gave Joe DeG. an extra special BJ. after her crack testimony.
I’m sure stuff like her opinion really turns them on.

Valerie Plame:

“I raced to discover solid intelligence for senior policy makers on Iraq’s presumed weapons of mass destruction programs.”

Does no one else smell a rat regarding this? I’m really surprised no news outlets have latched on to this part. Another smoking gun that they were not interested in real intelligence regarding WMD in Iraq and in fact worked to make sure the truth could not come to light.

Now, if we just knew if the rumor that prominent neocons were involved in selling secrets to Turkey were true, maybe we could tar and feather them, run them out of town on a rail, or at least make them afraid to show their nutty heads on TV.

Uppity Girl:

“WHY is nothing being said about Sy Hersh’s article of 5 March in The New Yorker?
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh“

Sy Hersh:

““This goes back to Iran-Contra,” a former National Security Council aide told me. “And much of what they’re doing is to keep the agency out of it.” He said that Congress was not being briefed on the full extent of the U.S.-Saudi operations. And, he said, “The C.I.A. is asking, ‘What’s going on?’ They’re concerned, because they think it’s amateur hour.””

Like I said before, someone needs to read The Looking Glass War by LeCarre. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looking_Glass_War)

Spoiler: Unfortunately, there’s no Smiley to take away their toys and make them go home, unless it’s a she named Plame.

Anyone know anything about the background of this Dr. Knodell?

I looked all over Google and he seems to be quite a cipher for a guy with a Doctorate!

“Yes it is true she recommended her husband to do the job that needed to be done but the decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses.”
Larry C. Johnson

Well, according to your above statement, the peroxide pencil pusher bureaucrat committed perjury Friday.

Plame denied under oath that she ever mentioned her husband’s name at any meeting regarding Niger. Nobody ever said this bureaucrat ever had the authority to make the final decision on anything of consequence. Hell, she had to consult her secret decoder ring to figure out how much money to donate to Gore’s campaign fund. Which she did using her name and the company name, that was her front, as the source for the donation.

What sacrifice has this women, who thinks she is a cross between Mata Hari and Joan of Arc, ever made during this entire non story? Other than get a $1 million advance for a book and movie deal, how did Dick Armitage’s exposure of Plame as a WMD “expert” ruin her career, or for that matter, somehow be characterized as retribution against her husband?

Conspicoius by their absence was Joe Wilson, Dick Armitage and any CIA official, who could offer testimony under oath. Of course Waxman’s oversight committee was not after any information that would undermine Plame’s Oliver North moment.

Waxman looked like a deer in the headlights when Toensing exposed Plame as nothing more than a politically motivated operative of the far left.

Judging by your career in the CIA and your comments, the CIA was, and still is, inhabited by far too many left wing moonbats.

Waxman looked like a deer in the headlights when Toensing exposed Plame as nothing more than a politically motivated operative of the far left.

Not at all, in fact it was Toensing who looked like a deer in the headlights.

Judging by your career in the CIA and your comments, the CIA was, and still is, inhabited by far too many left wing moonbats.

Wonder if you would have the guts to repeat that were you face to face with Mr. Johnson instead of ensconced safely at your keyboard making idiotic statements about things which you are clearly not qualified to discuss.

Posted by: Bellerophon | Sunday, 18 March 2007 at 03:30

Judging by your comments and level of intellegence you are either off you medication or are 12 years old.

…..I know I did when I first got a load of Toensing’s hair. Hmm, appears to actually be of a color not found in nature…..

Really, all that matters is that Victoria’s husband likes her hair. And since her brother-in-law is a hair stylist, she has the option of sporting a different color hair every week, if she wanted to. Valerie, however, could have touched up those roots for her first appearance on national TV.

Question is, Larry…..

Question is…..

Are they going to give the conspiracy theorists some god damn respect now the FBI are saying what the “conspiracy theorists” were saying about Marylin Monroe.

Yeah, there’s still a lot of ‘black’ sections. I guess some information will never be suitable for the public eye.

Wouldn’t it be really nasty if the FBI started putting false information in their files with view to it being released decades from now. I look at this case; Valerie Plame and wonder if new standards of “classification” will be set.

Perhaps a similar strategy to the Holocaust fabrication could be applied to politically sensitive intellectuals. Do time for exposing myths. Is that the Aryan Brave New World? Run by cowards, snitches and incompetants.

The intellectuals are behind you Larry, even if the leathery red necks aren’t shouting “conspiracy” from the wings.

Thank God for the conspiracy theorists!!!!

Toensing is an idiot and so are Bill Kristol and Brit Hume. If the WH is in deep denial about Abu “you’re not entitled to habeous corpus” Gonzales, they are in extreme deep denial at FOX news this morning.

I do on occasion watch snippets of FOX news just so I can see what the right is saying about Plame. I have to hand it to Chris Wallace and Juan Williams this morning, they were at least pointing out the obvious testimony that put to bed some of the questions about Valerie sending Joe to Niger, and the covert issue, and Hume and Kristol were still denying the obvious. I don’t see how those people stay on tv. Juan Williams at one point was just sitting there shaking his head in disgust at the shit that Hume and Kristol were spewing forth. Talk about Baghdad Bobs.

>>> federal gallows anyone?

I’d pay a minimum of $250 each, sliding scale UPwards by GS rating, to kick the trapdoor lever.

Pay my own travel and expenses.

Larry
i watch Westy & Vicky Friday, and realized after they opened their pie holes, that sometimes you “just cant fix STUPID”. They are eather just plain stupid or great liers.

Centrocitta writes: “Really, all that matters is that Victoria’s husband likes her hair. And since her brother-in-law is a hair stylist, she has the option of sporting a different color hair every week, if she wanted to. Valerie, however, could have touched up those roots for her first appearance on national TV.”

Yeah, I deserve that for my cattiness, and am well rebuked.

Now I’m especially glad [laughing] I deleted the part where I said she looked like something you’d find hunched on a parapet in gothic architecture or mused “so that’s what Sharon Osborne would look like if she’d done as many drugs as Ozzie.”

Meow!

Waiting in Texas writes: “I do on occasion watch snippets of FOX news [...] and Hume and Kristol were still denying the obvious.”

I think the prize still goes to “republican strategist” Edwina Rogers, who on Neil Cavuto’s show, actually tried to float the chronologically challenged and completely fucking wrong “Valerie outed herself when she appeared in Vanity Fair” meme, going on to claim that the CIA wanted to get rid of her anyway, ’cause she was such a mediocre agent, “it’s now come out”. So help me, she just keeps pulling it all out of her ass, and Cavuto just sits there, perhaps too stunned to respond.

You have to see it to believe it, and luckily you can. Set phasers on dumb, and transport to:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703160015

Listen, who are you going to let determine the status of covert, classified, undercover CIA agents?

Some lowly General who is the Director of National Intelligence or a *paid-consultant, lawyer and long time political hack who has made thousands of dollars a a media pundit supporting a convcited felon?

-GSD

*She knew Barry Goldwater.

Funny how the Bush Cultist Apologists refer to Valerie Wilson dismissively as a “bureaucrat” yet their Princess in Flaming Red, Victoria Toensing, apparently 30 years ago as a political hack (bureaucrat) to Barry Goldwater she helped to craft a law so convoluted that ONLY SHE can determine who it applies to.

Funny dat.

-GSD

one thing I’ve noticed about right wingers is that they can’t explain either of these two things

1. the forgeries

2. what were the “significant amounts” of uranium bush alluded to? 2 cupfulls, a million tons?

the only amount I’ve ever seen listed is 500 tons, which came from the forgeries.

ALL….Forget the forgeries….although the Senate Intel committee should determine whether Doug Feith and Ledeen had a hand in it.(and prosecute them) Most important is the fact that Wilson and his report was correct…there were no attempts by Iraq to buy yellowcake. Our CIA told Bush that BEFORE the 16 words flap.Duelfer and Kay found NO nuclear program, so Cheney was an obvious serial liar…and should be impeached.They keep repeating the false meme that “all agencies around the world thought Saddam had WMD stockpiles”, which is false and irrelevant, but NO-ONE ELSE CLAIMED the MUSHROOM CLOUD THREAT.That was the fearful threat that apparently turned some Dems(stupid really)to vote for the AUMF.That was all BUSH/CHENEY’s lie. And we knew that Saddam ALREADY had stockpiles of yellowcake, under seal by the UN…so of course he didn’t need more. It was all a huge hoax, and concentrating on Val and Libby and the convictions serve the purpose of deflecting attention from the impeachable lies told to get us into this disastrous war.

Larry mentions the State Department INR memo with the paragraph labeled “S” for secret. My recollection is that this memo formed part of the document that went aboard Airforce One on the trip to Africa, July 7 or 8, 2003. So, unless we are to believe that no one actually looked at it on that trip, someone with the relevant clearance HAD to have read that paragraph, and HAD, therefore, to have seen the “S” beside the paragraph mentioning Ambassador Wilson’s wife. So, am I stupid if I think that here is evidence that one of the leakers saw this information, and if they read the file and were oblivious to the “S”, they were just as guilty of violating EO 12958 as if they knew it outright?

Larry C. Johnson,

Thank you for taking time out your full time job of being Joe and “Val’s” water carrier, PR spokesman, and all around apologist, to personally send me an email expressing your disenchantment with my previous post.

Your “taking my quote out of context” defense is the classic response. Although, it didn’t work too well for the very confused Andrea Mitchell, who let the cat out of the bag that Plame was known to journalists, who cover intelligence matters, as a CIA analyst long before the Novak column.

The actual sequence of events in this ridiculous Plame affair is that Aldrich Aimes had compromised true CIA covert ops until his embarrassingly late arrest in 1994. Why else was Plame riding a desk for the last five years if she had any value as a “covert” agent overseas?

Then Dick Armitage coughed up Plame’s identity to Novak. Novak’s column didn’t even mention Plame as a CIA analyst until well into his story, as if it was not even news worthy.

But who is really to blame for all the attention focused on this Cinnamon Carter wanna be? That distinction goes to her hubby, Joe. Wilson pokes his thumb into VP Cheney’s eye with an error riddled NYT op-ed and never once stops to think about the position he placed his CIA desk jokey wiffey in.

The only conclusion one can draw is that Joe and “Val,” as her intimates refer to her, hatched this entire internecine scam from the beginning. Wilson, believing that he could snare Cheney and Rove into a trap where they would get at him by “outing” his wife’s identity, screwed the pooch. Dick Armitage, his buddy, tripped the snare, and so all that Special Prosecutor Fitgerald could salvage was an indictment against Libby that had nothing to do with “outing” Wilson’s sacrificial lamb wife’s identity.

I wonder if Larry Johnson, whose furtive, yet curt, four year career at the CIA, 18 years ago, condemned John Kerry for “outing” CIA agent Otto Reich during the John Bolton confirmation hearings?…..Nope. LJ reserves his chivalrous defense of CIA agents only when they meet very special criteria: that they have long flowing hair, and that they were exposed by a Republican, or someone in a Republican administration. Poor Otto. He just didn’t make LJ’s cut.

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Good god!! Your stupidity is truly amazing. For starters, Otto Reich was never, ever a CIA officer. EVER. John Kerry did not out Otto Reich. What is wrong with you? Ooops. Sorry. Forgot you are a rightwing whack job who prefers paranoid delusions to reality.

You know nothing of Valerie’s career nor do you know anything about how CIA officers work at Headquarters. I’ve been there and done that. You’ve never even driven past the building and you sure as hell wouldn’t be allowed thru the gates. Just because you watch Get Smart or Fox News does not qualify you for anything other than sniffing your own ass.

I’m happy to carry water any day any time for Joe and Val. They are American Patriots who have been slimed by twits like you. Please enlighten us with your work experience so we can offer the appropriate praise for your failure to serve your country in any capacity.

“When you join the CIA you are briefed on the fact that most of the folks you will be working with are undercover and that this information is classified and that you do not talk about people by name outside of Headquarters.”

Yet for some reason, they had no problem telling people from INR Valerie’s name and position at the CIA in February 2002. Mind-boggling.

“The State Department INR memo, which was written in response to a request from Vice President Cheney’s office, listed Valerie’s name in a paragraph that was classified SECRET. Got it?”

But Larry, there was a bunch of other information in that paragraph. Are you telling us that every single word in every paragraph marked “Secret” is super duper classified? By that logic, Joe Wilson must also have been a covert agent, since his name is also listed in the same exact paragraph. Doh!

“Val put that on the record and is willing to go to jail if she lied. But she told the truth, at great personal cost.”

She also claimed she wasn’t involved in Joe going to Niger, even though there is documentary evidence showing she was in fact involved. Ooops.

“Since the CIA will only acknowledge that Valerie worked at the CIA from 2002 on this means the travel General Hayden refers to occurred in 2002 and 2003.”

This is sheer nonsense, Larry. The CIA has not acknowledged anything to do with any dates or years, you’re a poor liar, as always.

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Seixon, I give up. Your head is permanently cemented to your ass. For starters, everyone who was at the meeting at CIA Headquarters and the INR memo of that meeting is classified TOP SECRET (or was until it was officially declassified). Everyone there was entitled to access to the Secret information and Valerie had every right to expect that it would not be shared with people not cleared. Got it? People with clearances get access to classified information that they are supposed to protect. That included Armitage.

(One other thing, when a paragraph is classified S then it is not your choice to decide what is and is not secret. Of course, if you had ever held a security clearance or new a goddamn thing about clearances you would not have had to ask.)

Valerie explained very clear and explained under oath how Joe’s trip came to be. She destroyed the distortion perpetuated by the Republican controlled Senate Intelligence Committee. Blow that out of your ass you fool.

And yes, fuckwad, General Hayden certainly did specify dates. First, he will only acknowledge that she worked at the CIA since February of 2002. Then, if you will simply re-read above, approved a written statement stipulating that she traveled overseas in a covert status while at the CIA. Jesus Fucking Christ! How goddamned ignorant can you be? We will make a new word. To be a SEIXON means criminally retarded. And you are a SEIXON.

Now I’m especially glad [laughing] I deleted the part where I said she looked like something you’d find hunched on a parapet in gothic architecture

Chris,

That would be Condi.

Bellerophon,

Send Otto and his ilk back to Cuba and we’ll be better off.

A host of others need to be booted into jail or from the country as well.

AEI’s weird celebration.
http://www.slate.com/id/2161800?nav=ais

marty- I think you misunderstand what I’m saying. it’s a pretty simple point: bush refers to “significant quantities”

yet, the only documenyt that refers to any actual amount of uranium is in the forgeries, which say there will be 500 tons.

therefore, it seems clear to me tht bush’s statement is based on the forgeries not wilsons own report as the right wingers claim

ya get it?

cee- bernard lewis also denies the armenian genocide. which has nothing to do with israels relationship with turkey.

I wish C Span would run his old interviews back when he was erroneously considered an expert on the middle east. I remember him saying that all the countries that had leaders that hated us had populations that loved us.

“Valerie Plame:

“I raced to discover solid intelligence for senior policy makers on Iraq’s presumed weapons of mass destruction programs.”

Does no one else smell a rat regarding this? I’m really surprised no news outlets have latched on to this part. Another smoking gun that they were not interested in real intelligence regarding WMD in Iraq and in fact worked to make sure the truth could not come to light.” —SometimeCIADeffender

This has been bothering me since I read it. seems to have somehow slipped by when I was listening to the testimony. She indeed should be called to answer for her statement. I hope that it is not overlooked somehow…

Time for investigation of the WH itself. Long past time. Who is making the decider’s decisions? God the nerve of the child who would be king. The emperor is wearing no clothes…

Also, just read all the comments over at the KOS psoting of Larry’s article. The one that stands out to me was the one linking all of this, and the AG firings to Brewster-Jennings… I think Val may have been what the neocons and warmongers call “collateral damage”… So Sad, yet typical of the thuglican mindset…

Name a time ever when a wife isn’t somehow “involved” in a husband going on a trip. This is silly parsing folks. Mrs. Wilson didn’t even want her husband to go on the trip. Her involvement as to his trip, was that she is his wife, and she knew he was going on a trip.

Name a time ever when a wife isn’t somehow “involved” in a husband going on a trip. This is silly parsing folks. Mrs. Wilson didn’t even want her husband to go on the trip. Her involvement as to his trip, was that she is his wife, and she knew he was going on a trip.

Bellerophon writes: “The only conclusion one can draw is that Joe and ‘Val,’ as her intimates refer to her, hatched this entire internecine scam from the beginning. Wilson, believing that he could snare Cheney and Rove into a trap where they would get at him by ‘outing’ his wife’s identity, screwed the pooch.”

Glad you wrote this, Bellerophon, because it makes it laughingly obvious that you’re not worth responding to elsewise.

Dear Fellow Democrats,

Forgive me for being a little out of touch — what with living overseas and all — but I’m hearing that Harriet Miers may be questioned under oath for her role in the US Attorney firings. Occasionally, when I read about Harriet, there is often news about another Bush friend, Priscilla Owen, associated with her — and I just can’t help wondering why they refer to Priscilla as “Boogeywoman”. Can anyone enlighten me on just what thats all about? I DO believe both women are from Austin, arn’t they?

Every rock you turn over in terms of the Bush Administration will expose more creepy crawly things that scurry.

Larry, Larry, Larry. You are really starting to dig a hole for yourself here.

“For starters, everyone who was at the meeting at CIA Headquarters and the INR memo of that meeting is classified TOP SECRET (or was until it was officially declassified). Everyone there was entitled to access to the Secret information and Valerie had every right to expect that it would not be shared with people not cleared. Got it?”

So Joe Wilson had the clearances for this? That’s besides the point, I’m asking you, why was Plame named as Wilson’s wife, her position at the CIA detailed, yet another CIA analyst at the meeting was not even named? Why the different treatment between Plame and the unnamed CIA analyst? Was there a reason to tell INR who Plame was and what she did at the CIA?

“(One other thing, when a paragraph is classified S then it is not your choice to decide what is and is not secret. Of course, if you had ever held a security clearance or new a goddamn thing about clearances you would not have had to ask.)”

Yet that is exactly what you are doing, you are deciding that it is Plame’s details that are the sensitive part, when it could be anything in the paragraph. Joe Wilson is listed in the paragraph, does that mean he was a secret agent too? You’re accusing me of doing exactly what you’re doing!

“Valerie explained very clear and explained under oath how Joe’s trip came to be. She destroyed the distortion perpetuated by the Republican controlled Senate Intelligence Committee. Blow that out of your ass you fool.”

Yes, I’m sure the OVP called up a junior officer at the CIA, because that’s how it works, right? Silly me, I thought the OVP had their own CIA briefer who went to the CIA on behalf of the OVP and got answers for them. I guess the CIA briefer had a superfluous job since the OVP was randomly calling junior officers at the CIA hounding them for information.

I sure hope Plame can provide evidence that this phone call in fact actually happened. If not, she’ll be facing perjury charges.

Oh, and the SSCI report was signed off by the Democrats on the panel, a fact that you continue to pretend does not exist. There were things that the Republicans wanted to write in the report that the Democrats on the panel would not let them. I know this. You know this. Everyone knows this. Yet you continue to pretend otherwise, because you are a liar.

“And yes, fuckwad, General Hayden certainly did specify dates.”

Prove it.

“First, he will only acknowledge that she worked at the CIA since February of 2002.”

I’ve read the hearing transcript, Larry. I cannot find this anywhere. Care to help yourself by providing evidence of your claim? Here’s Raw Story’s transcript: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Plame_hearing_transcript_0316.html

Have at it.

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
Everyone, say good bye to this ass clown. He will be banned and never allowed to post here again. He is the retarded version of Rain Main. Repeats over and over irrelevant issues and ignored basic facts. If he had been on the Titanic he would have denied an iceberg struck the ship and would insist that the ice on the deck was dropped by some clumsy waiter. The only difference is that if he had been on the Titanic he would have drowned and we wouldn’t be subjected to his persistent stupidity.
Here’s a personal response I sent him:
You stupid fucker. This will be the last correspondence between us. You are not interested in any truth. But here goes another vain attempt:

1. I don’t know why Valerie’s name appeared in the memo. I did not write it. Hopefully that comes out in the investigation. But, it was a classified document and the information was protected.

2. No George, not by my logic, but by appropriate security practice. You have never held a clearance so you have no basis for your claim of knowledge. There is a big difference between identifying Ambassador Joe Wilson, private citizen, and CIA employee Valerie Plame. Private citizens are not in a classified status. Nonetheless, the contents of the paragraph, including Joe’s name, was classified. That’s how classification works.

3. Go ask the fucking Vice President why they are calling a junior CIA ops officer. Not my goddamn problem moron. But it does underscore the fact the VPs office was intent on pressing the CIA at all levels for information.

4. There is no discrepancy about what I’ve said. I have never said Val recommended her husband for the trip. I have always said that Val’s bosses raised the issue of her husband and asked her to write the memo. Always.

5. I know using logic with you is a waste of time but here is what Hayden approved in a written statement provided to Waxman:
“Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA. Without discussing the specifics of Ms. W’ilson’s classified work, it is accurate to say that she worked on the prevention of the development and use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States.”

Those are Hayden’s words to Waxman. Got it. Since the CIA will only admit Valerie was at the CIA since 2002 then those words cover the period 2002-2003.

Now fuck off.

Britt Hume all but accused Ms. Plame of perjury on Fox news:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/18/i-was-waiting-for-this-hume-says-plame-lied-under-oath/

If the facts don’t back this statement up, then this is slander and libel. I’m not a civil attorney but it seems to this layman that Ms. Plame has good grounds for a defamation law suit. Larry, if you’re reading this and not already thinking it, please urge Ms. Plame to seek legal counsel. The wingers have been throwing around innuendos and half-truths for years now, a libel suit against FOX would be a fantastic way of forcing wingnuts to deal w/ reality for once and I would dearly love to see Hume eat crow.

Larry, Thank you and thank all CIA agents for putting there lives on the line. It seems as though even if Mata Hara has disappeared we have new ones popping up. I almost wished that Val would have showed up in blue dress because that seems to be the only thing some people are interested in. Thank you again. What a wonderful person Valerie is and I for one appreciate her service.

Seixon writes : “Yet that is exactly what you are doing, you are deciding that it is Plame’s details that are the sensitive part, when it could be anything in the paragraph. Joe Wilson is listed in the paragraph, does that mean he was a secret agent too? You’re accusing me of doing exactly what you’re doing!”

Seixon, you’re a poor liar, and clearly drowning here. Larry’s point is that nothing in the paragraph is cleared for release to the unauthorized, and you know it.

LARRY JOHNSON writes “Everyone, say good bye to this ass clown [seixon].”

With pleasure. Buh-bye!~ Don’t forget to get your parking stub validated, Mr assclown!

Titus Pollo writes: “Britt Hume all but accused Ms. Plame of perjury on Fox news [...] If the facts don’t back this statement up, then this is slander and libel. I’m not a civil attorney but it seems to this layman that Ms. Plame has good grounds for a defamation law suit.”

Titus, journalists receive a great deal of leeway in this regard, and that is as it should be, I think, so Brit is safe from legal action.

Although, as Bill Clinton once famously growled in the aftermath of William Safire’s column calling Hillary a congenital liar, some types of slander might be most appropriately answered with a punch in the nose.

I hope Valerie gets the chance, and I hope she doesn’t mess up his face too badly. After all, he’s the talent.

mudkitty writes: “Name a time ever when a wife isn’t somehow ‘involved’ in a husband going on a trip. This is silly parsing folks.”

Breathtaking, isn’t it?

Nevertheless, even after Valerie’s testimony, which makes it clearer than ever just how peripheral that involvement was, they’re still crazily flailing away at what has got to be the deadest horse that ever was.

In Hume’s case, he knows the truth of it by now. But he’s got nothing, absolutely nothing, and need, as I say, is a powerhouse. See also Edwina Rogers’ comments which I linked to in a comment above.

LCJ,

You had a mediocre and inconsequential four year stint in the CIA and now you figure you can ride the coat tails of Plame’s receding fame for self-aggrandizement.

Stop pretending access to Langley Headquarters is as difficult as finding the tailor shop entrance to U.N.C.L.E. I spent a day there back in the mid 1970′s. Big deal.

How would you know whether Otto was a CIA agent or not? With your propensity for media whoreness, why would a six year-old divulge a secret to you?

Perhaps a clue as to your brief sojourn with the CIA is revealed in your callow and choleric attempt at a writing style.

You have proved yourself to be the best witness for the prosecution at “Val’s” perjury trial.

Don’t bother to answer why Waxman never subpoenaed Wilson, Armitage, Novak or the director of the CIA. The answers could only frustrate your delicate sensibilities.

Next time you see “Val,” you might tell her that the scarf and sunglasses look in the posed Vanity Fair spread is a step up from Michael Jackson’s surgical mask.

FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
I’ve known Otto Reich for more than 25 years. I left CIA in 1989, receiving two Exceptional Performance awards that year. You know nothing of my career nor my experience. You’ll not be visiting this site again, however, because of your stupid, juvenile comments.

Thanks for posting that you were banning Seixon. I was going to respond to him and say I GET IT! We are all lying left wing idiots. Now Seixon please leave us in peace and get your ass on over to the AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE and inform Phil Girald that he too, is a lying lefty shill. There are so many that need to be exposed by your insightful observations. Go gettem Seixon. And while you are on your mission to expose all closet leftys ask many of my former Repub friends why they now claim to be Independents or Libertarians. If the state of this country and the world was not so dire, I could find these pukes funny.

Bellerophon
Normally I ignore people of your ilk but lately I’ve come to realize that ignoring you pukes is one of the many reasons that this country is sliding slowly into the pig pen. I will not attempt to debate your twisted logic of refute your statements. But I have a suggestion, if you hurry on over to the White House I here that Jeff Gannon’s spot under Karl’s desk is vacant. Wear something “Cute” you never know who might come down the hall and decide to join in the fun.

Posted by: Sometime-CIA-Defender | Sunday, 18 March 2007 at 03:13 -
Like I said before, someone needs to read

The Looking Glass War by LeCarre. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looking_Glass_War)

Spoiler: Unfortunately, there’s no Smiley to take away their toys and make them go home, unless it’s a she named Plame.
______
Thanks for repeating the title, I will check it out.

just to be clear, I did read the entire article, so I got what Sy was communicating. My rant was more about the accompanying link about how NO ONE in the media and the Congress is screaming bloody murder about these revelations (which is what Sy has laid out on the table).

I think it is pretty damn clear, and HOW do they explain away not connecting those dots? Do we have to have live video footage of Prince Bandar (“Bandar Bush”) whipping a ball-gagged Cheney and Abrams for someone to notice in this country? what does it take?

Oh yes, and today is Sunday. So, following the a.m. “TeeVee!~whoopee!” talking arse shows (Hume), they drink the kool-aid and log on (‘ten-shun, True ‘Murican! make sure your id and password were entered correctly! it must ping the RNC servers in order for your time to be compensated!), and – wah-la! here we have shrill screeching trolls, parsing and parsing and so desperately playing at “gotcha!” on the written word. Still, still they deny and deny the obvious evidence that is right in front of their very eyes! Will the silence from them only arrive when the remaining facts are revealed, and their tiny, tiny brains implode?

…..FOX would be a fantastic way of forcing wingnuts to deal w/ reality for once and I would dearly love to see Hume eat crow…..

Crow is pushing it. From the way he enunciates, I think Hume can only manage Oatmeal.

I think Mr. Murder may have posted this some time ago here (if not forgive me Mr. M), but what is the story that someone got caught trying to bring WMD’s into Iraq to stage the big “Lookee what we found” show, and it was Valeries team at the CIA that stopped this or found out about it.

Sorry, I try not to post speculation or start rumours in any way, but it seems like I read about that here. Could someone help me out here?

Is there just another entire back story that hasn’t made it to the surface on all this? I can’t understand the lengths that OVP, FOX, Toensing have gone to try and discredit Valerie and Joe over an op-ed. I mean I understand the thing about the yellow-cake and build up to the war, but all this doesn’t make sense sometimes, especially for Fitz to have come up empty handed. (Now that I don’t understand.)

Larry Johnson wrote: “Seixon, I give up. … everyone who was at the meeting at CIA Headquarters and the INR memo of that meeting is classified TOP SECRET (or was until it was officially declassified).”

To which Seixon responded: “Yet that is exactly what you are doing, you are deciding that it is Plame’s details that are the sensitive part, when it could be anything in the paragraph. Joe Wilson is listed in the paragraph, does that mean he was a secret agent too? You’re accusing me of doing exactly what you’re doing!”

Just in case there’s any confusion, classified documents are classified to the highest level of classified information contained within them. When they are declassified then either all the information in them is declassified, or the classified parts are removed, or “redacted”. If that information’s in the declassified version of the document, we’re allowed to discuss it.

As Larry Johnson said, any information in a paragraph marked with a classification higher than (U) (Unclassified) has to be protected, even if it’s seemingly mundane stuff like “the sky was blue that day”. You often don’t know why something is classified. If it’s classified improperly and it’s not your agency that classified it, then all you can do is hope that they reformat the document better or give it a more valid classification. You’re not allowed to discuss that information unless the person you’re discussing it with is cleared.

Bellerophon, You are a drooling nasty shill.I watched the hearings…did you??
The CIA head gave a statement…he didn’t want to show up..did you read it. Can you read? I wanted to see Carl Rove, Bush and Cheney up there. Maybe during impeachment hearings we can all see this spectacle. Wilson, Armitage and Novak….??? Sure , get them under oath. The truth is there for people who have brains and are not drooling paid shills of the neocons, so we cannot expect you to understand simple words and ideas. You are truly loathsome.

Lester…I agree that there was a forged document from Berlusconi that piqued Cheney’s interest in Niger and the quantities were not in Wilson’s report. In fact Joe has told Randi Rhodes that in fact he was not aware of the forged documents when he was sent on his trip. So I agree with you that Bush used these forged materials as his basis for lying. Wilson and the CIA through other sources had debunked Berlusconi’s forgeries before the 16 words were put in the S.O.the U. speech

My point was more subtle…I’m wondering if this is like the Rather documents whose provenance masked the truth of Bush being AWOL. We are focussing on these lying weasels spewing flagrant lies, getting furious with their rampant cupidity, when the Bush/Cheney cabal is sneaking out the door without being held accountable for the LIES that led to war. These lies I think should be impeachable offenses.

I don’t believe Ms. Wilson was collateral damage. I believe she was the target. The tell was during the Kosinich questioning. Dennis asked her whether having Cheney looking over the shoulder of a CIA officer would be considered intimidating and would that agent feel undue pressure. Valerie smiled and said yes it was. While the question did not refer to her as the officer she answered it as if it did. Cheney knew who she was and knew that she was pushing back, not confirming WMD in Iraq. He outed her and destroyed her entire operation.
I would be curious to hear Larry’s take on this.

Yes, grammamarge, I agree with you that she was a target, or more specifically, her work at Brewster-Jennings was the target. She was treated by those who were moving the pieces around as just another pawn in their game. The same way so many brave men and women who serve this country have been used. That is what I meant when I made that staement. She, as well as many others have been used by this cabal for it’s evil purposes…

I was surfing around and found a good op ed on ToesRing… I think it worth reading…

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=3156

Also, who was Knodell looking at over his shoulder during the hearing??? and the question of the day, what did he do before his tenure in the WH??? I know he’s a crony, just want to know how bad…

Larry, I enjoy hearing you on Countdown; I just learned about your blog from someone on Democratic Underground.

You are a great spokesman for the truth and a champion of the cause of taking back America. Thanks for this post.

Larry: You see? It was okay for Valerie to tell her husband where she worked.
—-
I agree that it was not illegal for her to tell Joe where she worked. However, at the time she told him he was not *her* husband, he was married to someone else. By Joe’s own account, they had been dating a relatively short time. As long as there have been nations, sexual attraction has been used to glean information from unsuspecting and trusting sources.
Valerie would have known that, yet she revealed her own status. Certainly that indicates a lack of caution on her part. Or perhaps it is a good clue as to how much she actually needed to guard her secret status.

grammamarge, I think you’re onto something. If you refer to that chart that they showed at the hearing on Friday, you’ll notice there’s a black box that says “Unknown” which is the place from which Cheney and Rove originally got this information.

http://oversight.house.gov/Documents/20070316173308-19288.pdf

What if that was Cheney? He was pestering the CIA about finding WMD, and as you say, Valerie Wilson was one of the folks who covered this area for the CIA. He went there, I seem to recall, ten times. One thing that may be wrong on that chart is that I seem to remember from the Libby trial that Libby really learned of Mrs. Wilson’s identity from Cheney. At least, Cheney was among the people who told him about her.

Anyway, this is something that’s been bothering me, but I hadn’t made that connection until now. I don’t agree that this means she was the real target of his campaign, but she could have been. She was certainly a target of opportunity, and it does stand to reason that Cheney could have known.

k, while we’re waiting for Larry’s response, you may want to check out the Wikipedia entry on Valerie Wilson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame_Wilson#Marriage_and_family

particularly this bit:
[quote]
At the time that they met, Wilson relates in his memoir, he was separated from his second wife Jacqueline, a former French diplomat; they divorced after twelve years of marriage so that he could marry Valerie Plame. His divorce from Jacqueline, had been “delayed because I was never in one place long enough to complete the process,” though he and she had already been living separate lives since the mid-’90s
[/quote]
Joe Wilson’s marriage was over for some time before he learned about Valerie’s real work.

k- I am willing to go a bit of a ways with that argument- however, it just feels so ridiculous, unnecessary and hmm, what is that feeling that is coming up, “who cares?”

I do CARE that these larger issues happened: I can not find ANY way to justify outing Valerie, a surname (ie, IDENTITY) she used and especially tieing it all up together in a pretty bow with Brewster-Jennings stamped on it- a la Mr. Novak.

because, last I checked, the incredible outrage and focus of all this attention on our part is about THAT action, not what Joe and Val said to each other whilst falling in love.

seriously. Argue – all five seconds- of that point, good- all that good clue stuff (again, a non-starter, as it is all over now!). But, really, here’s where i am at with reading this sort of minutiae:

I am a bit tired of being asked to parse all this stuff to that banging-head-against-tree level, but for one moment, of everyone else pulling back for the view of the forest- see my point?

Congressional hearings are held for OVERSIGHT, as is their charge. CRITICAL questions are being asked about why the number two in line, traditionally a figurehead only dude is over at Langely, a LOT, leaning over the shoulders of analysts, hovering and practically stabbing their papers with his own red pen…

THAT is what sent off “WARNING!WARNING! Danger! NOT right!” signals to my nervous system, waaaaaaay back when it was first reported. All of the remaining shenanigans have stunk and continue to stink to high heaven…but the truth will be revealed. I do belive that.

So- splitting hairs six ways to Sunday is fun for some; insisting on focusing on the harmed party, sure go ahead! (that is not going to hold up in civil court, btw) I sort of a feeling that these fellas have really messed with the wrong people. black ops and rogue elements abound; somewhere a dark prince believes in his ultimate control of this putrid fiefdom…i’m thinking mythology tells a different tale.

Prchr Lady writers: “Also, who was Knodell looking at over his shoulder during the hearing???”

Perhaps he was looking at a clock, and marveling at how slowly it seemed to be moving.

Larry;

Don’t you just feel like waterboarding sme of these rednecks?

Thanks for your courage, I would volunteer to be your tag-team partner (wing-chun) in a real smack-down, if some of these cowards had the courage to lie to your face the way they lie on your blog.

I think between Bushco’s deceptions and Fox news’ complete abdication of journalistic responsibility, there is now an actual CLASS of liars in our country. And they are so desperate to turn their lie into reality, they do the Tungsink dance whenever the truth starts glowing anywhere in their vicinity.

These self-appointed supermen like Orielly and Hannity and Hume have their own kryptonite called truth.

Keep after em, Larry, you are a REAL hero. These stupid pundits are just wannabe’s, they’d mess their pampers if they had to face you personally.

Oh, and as for this earlier comment,”…..FOX would be a fantastic way of forcing wingnuts to deal w/ reality for once and I would dearly love to see Hume eat crow…..

“Crow is pushing it. From the way he enunciates, I think Hume can only manage Oatmeal.”

I think oatmeal is a bit forgiving too, if Humes eating anything it’s….

Yes, cujo…every married man that starts dating another woman tells her that his marriage is over except for the legalities. Sometimes it’s true, sometimes it’s just a ploy.
I just think someone guarding her own covert status- as well as the status of anyone else depending on her secrecy- would be more cautious. If she thought it was truly important, that is.

“If she thought it was truly important, that is.”

Seems pretty easy for you to trivialize her loyalty when you don’t have to answer for it.

I guess that’s one of the factors about the blog that cuts both ways, it gives both the truth and the lie an easy medium, so people like you can post incredibly insensitive and misleading falsehoods, and compare them to stinging truths that are leveled at really guilty parties,as if it is the same thing.

One more member of the Liar’s Club.

Yes, MayBee, and some people will rationalize until the cows come home.

Do you think Joe Wilson was a cipher before then? That paragraph says they were legally separated. If he and his diplomat soon-to-be ex were still seeing each other I suspect that Valerie could have found out. In addition, Valerie by that time was in her thirties and had already been through one marriage. She certainly had some idea whether she was serious about the guy or not. Do you think she should have waited until after they were married to spring that on him?

Thanks JEP – I was thinking the same thing – this is what we’re reduced to – someone speculating on the intimacies of the Wilsons relationship? Give me a break.

Yes Maybee, there are those of us that are DEMOCRATS and have premarital sex (or post-marital, depending on one’s status).

Maybee writes: “I just think someone guarding her own covert status- as well as the status of anyone else depending on her secrecy- would be more cautious. If she thought it was truly important, that is.”

It is your contention alone that she did not exercise due caution in determining whether Joe Wilson was a security risk, k, and you provide no evidence to support it.

Without evidence, it’s idle speculation, or in a less forgiving forum, slander by an asshole who is not arguing in good faith.

Guess which kind of forum this is yet, k?

I think cujo and maybee are really Davis and Westmoreland doing some not-so-subtle cleanup work.

They should just give it up and realize, the idiocy was broadcast publicly, and they’ll never get that toothpaste back in the tube.

JEP, I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I was not agreeing with MayBee, a fact that I would have thought obvious.

Sorry, you’re right, I was skimming…

Eating and blogging at the same can cause such errors…

“Do you think she should have waited until after they were married to spring that on him?”

Good point, and I missed the meaning completely…

“I think cujo and maybee are really Davis and Westmoreland… ”

You mean “k” and “maybee” and they are a single person posting twice under differnt names.

It is your contention alone that she did not exercise due caution in determining whether Joe Wilson was a security risk, k, and you provide no evidence to support it.

No, it is a question based on information put into the public sphere by Joe Wilson himself.

I don’t care if Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame had premarital or extramarital sex. That’s between them.
This isn’t about morals, this is about a covert agent telling her status to someone that she was dating. I would think a NOC would be much more cautious than that, if it was something she still needed to be cautious about.

ps.Yes, sorry, I posted as both k and maybee. My email address show that.

“This isn’t about morals,”

…actually, that is the crux of the problem, but its Cheney, Rove and friends not Joe or Valerie, who broke every moral code, and when apologists like you twist it to blame the victims, justice comes unravelled.

To CUJO359 – just hopped over to your website. Great pics and I’ve bookmarked your page so I can go have have a looksie.

Do you think she should have waited until after they were married to spring that on him?
—-
I think the 3rd date (Joe Wilson’s story, not mine) is not cautious, and it is not what a NOC would do.

“and it is not what a NOC would do.”

Now what gives you the authority to claim that? Are YOU NOC?

Thought not…

Maybe K is Toensing? Or does the K stand for Karl

Am I the only person that doesn’t have a blog? Didn’t realize you had one too JEP.

k writes: “I would think a NOC would be much more cautious than that, if it was something she still needed to be cautious about.”

Again, you’ve provided no evidence that she wasn’t cautious, you’ve merely said that she wasn’t.

C’mon, k, either put up or shut up.

ssshhhh!!!!

Number of dates? Are you fucking serious?

Right, why’d I ask.

Beat it, insect.

Again, you’ve provided no evidence that she wasn’t cautious, you’ve merely said that she wasn’t.

C’mon, k, either put up or shut up.

—
My “evidence” is that she told a man on their third date that she worked for the CIA. If she was a NOC, that is not the usual thing to do.
Now, I’m not saying she did anything wrong. I’m saying that perhaps, thinking she’d been outed by Ames, she didn’t feel it necessary to be overly secretive about her employment.

K,

Funny that Valerie Wilson’s covert status was jigged-up until the fatheads like Cheney, Rove, Libby and Armitage along with their willing media stooges decided to blow her cover.

The fact that Joe Wilson didn’t blow her cover is proof of her cautiousness.

Funny how the Andrea Mitchell-Greesnpin pimped story about how “everyone in Washington knew who she was” withered on the vine.

Dick and Lynn Cheney must have floated that lie to her over one or their caviar and quail wing dinners.

-GSD

“Now, I’m not saying she did anything wrong.”

lie lie lie

That is exactly what you are saying, and you and Ann Coulter and all the rest of the wingnuts are getting so desperate, that is all you have left.

Like I said earlier, there’s a “class” of liars that has been spawned by this era of bad government, and you are one of its shrill, misleading voices perpetuating a subterfuge of distrust between Americans against one another, just to prromote your dying ideology.

Hey, G, wazzup at The Lake?

k writes: “Now, I’m not saying she did anything wrong. I’m saying that perhaps, thinking she’d been outed by Ames, she didn’t feel it necessary to be overly secretive about her employment.”

No, of course you’re not, liar.

[sigh] The allegation that Aldrich Ames blew Valerie’s cover assumes facts not in evidence, and not relevant to the actions of the Bush administration in any case, so I’m not surprised that you want to draw attention there, in a pathetic attempt to obfuscate serious wrongdoing by the admin.

Neither does it affect Valerie’s responsibility to protect her cover, which in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we can assume, as a seasoned professional, she took due care to protect.

If you have evidence to the contrary–

Oh the hell with it, just fuck off. God this is tiresome.

A few things I’ve learned in this whole process.

Our paid Washington servants spend way too much time chumming around with journalists. So much so I wonder if there are any secrets left in our government.

Dick Armitage cooked the goose that laid his golden egg. There’s only one way out for an old Marine!

George Bush seems to have little contol over his minions and has completely lost contol of his message.

They will all be gone in 18 months.

focscle…..They will all be gone in 18 months.

And how many of the earths current population will not be around to see their departure as a direct result of W/minions continued mayhem? Are you suggesting to just sit on our asses and hope that the insanity burns itself out?

Here is the Tom Davis and Victoria Toensing happy shit cluster fuck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvAOfJUwEJo

The allegation that Aldrich Ames blew Valerie’s cover assumes facts not in evidence,
-
Just to be clear, I got that information from the Wilson’s profile in Vanity Fair. Nick Kristof reported it in October 2003 when he reported Joe Wilson was his source. It was repeated today in The Independent, in another interview with Joseph Wilson. It has been repeated many times alongside Joe Wilson’s name and story, and I have never seen him dispute it.

These f*ckers (Bu$hco.) are trying to desensitize the American people to their crimes through scandal fatigue. I think there theory is the American people will be like kids playing violent video games. If they keep the OUTRAGEOUS IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES coming the American people will be worn down by the Bu$h trolls insistent justification of their ILLEGAL, IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL behavior.

PUT IMPEACHMENT BACK ON THE TABLE!

By the way, folks.

Check out…

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003559607

Great article by Greg Mitchell about Valerie Plame and media’s bizarre focus on her “fashion statement” versus the OUTRAGEOUS SCANDALOUS COVER UP by Bu$hco.

k,

You seem to know an awful lot about what happened at the CIA prior to her telling Wilson on their “3rd date.” I guess, in your little mind, you feel if it didn’t cross Victoria Toensing’s desk for her “approval” then it was an unauthorized leak. Ever consider Plame told CIA who she was dating and cleared the release? I’m sure the Ambassador was well aware of the criminal consequences of releasing the classified information revealed to him. Its revealed on a “need to know” basis and only revealed to those who have clearance for the information.

Bu$hco. had no reason to release her information WHATSOEVER except for political purposes. Bu$hco. should face the CRIMINAL consequences.

k,

By the way, Plame was a GS-14 step 6 (if I remember from the testimony)

Do you have ANY idea how high up that is and what authority? If she was GS-14 step 6 NOC CIA I’m sure she had very wide latitude to use her GOOD JUDGMENT. They don’t just hand out GS-14 step 6′s like candy. (In other words, her judgment is better than yours.)

There was a star next to her name, or did the OVP(Cheney in particular) once again write out key facts in the margins as a highlight?

What are the odds he highlighted her name by writing it in the margins on that trip to ‘get out all the facts?’

So..does anyone know what this “new” canard about Aldrich Ames is.He was a traitor in the CIA and was caught. The internal assessments were top secret as to the damage done. They won’t even tell us what the after-Plame outing damage report says. So how do these wingnuts know that Ames blew her cover, and thus she no longer was under cover…despite what the CIA chief(Prior and Current) say, despite what Plame under oath said. It is such collossal BS…yet these wingnuts clasp it to their hateful bosoms.

Uppity Gal wrote:

“Posted by: Sometime-CIA-Defender | Sunday, 18 March 2007 at 03:13 -
Like I said before, someone needs to read

The Looking Glass War by LeCarre. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looking_Glass_War)

Spoiler: Unfortunately, there’s no Smiley to take away their toys and make them go home, unless it’s a she named Plame.

Thanks for repeating the title, I will check it out.

just to be clear, I did read the entire article, so I got what Sy was communicating. My rant was more about the accompanying link about how NO ONE in the media and the Congress is screaming bloody murder about these revelations (which is what Sy has laid out on the table).

I think it is pretty damn clear, and HOW do they explain away not connecting those dots? Do we have to have live video footage of Prince Bandar (“Bandar Bush”) whipping a ball-gagged Cheney and Abrams for someone to notice in this country? what does it take?

Oh yes, and today is Sunday. So, following the a.m. “TeeVee!~whoopee!” talking arse shows (Hume), they drink the kool-aid and log on (‘ten-shun, True ‘Murican! make sure your id and password were entered correctly! it must ping the RNC servers in order for your time to be compensated!), and – wah-la! here we have shrill screeching trolls, parsing and parsing and so desperately playing at “gotcha!” on the written word. Still, still they deny and deny the obvious evidence that is right in front of their very eyes! Will the silence from them only arrive when the remaining facts are revealed, and their tiny, tiny brains implode?”

______

Sorry, Hon. Didn’t mean you or that you didn’t get the point. Was just mentioning a piece of the article that stood out for me, that these idiots are running their own covert operations with no oversight (not to mention supporting al Queda-sympathetic groups) and that it would be nice if someone could just go shut them down like Smiley does in the book.

The someone who should have read it was Cheney.

Marty wrote:

“So..does anyone know what this “new” canard about Aldrich Ames is.He was a traitor in the CIA and was caught. The internal assessments were top secret as to the damage done. They won’t even tell us what the after-Plame outing damage report says. So how do these wingnuts know that Ames blew her cover, and thus she no longer was under cover…despite what the CIA chief(Prior and Current) say, despite what Plame under oath said. It is such collossal BS…yet these wingnuts clasp it to their hateful bosoms.”

Undoubtedly. When they have no bullets, like Dirty Harry, they attempt to bluff by not telling the whole story (that they already pulled the trigger on that one; “Did I fire five or six times?”). EVEN IF the Russians knew from Ames, that does not declassify it or mean it was common knowledge, not a crime to tell a reporter, or that ANY terrorists or Saddam Hussein knew.

Now, the important story for Larry and Susan to cover: who at CIA were under investigation by the fired US Attorneys? I’m betting on the same idiots who got fired for corruption years ago and were re-appointed by Goss and friends.

k writes: “Just to be clear, I got that information [the allegation that Aldrich Ames outed Valerie] from the Wilson’s profile in Vanity Fair. Nick Kristof reported it in October 2003 when he reported Joe Wilson was his source. It was repeated today in The Independent, in another interview with Joseph Wilson. It has been repeated many times alongside Joe Wilson’s name and story, and I have never seen him dispute it.”

Interestingly, you do not provide a quotation from any of these sources. Your type never does, and there’s a simple reason for it. They don’t say what you claim they do.

In each case, you have simply assumed the truth of something which is speculation. The Independent article is typical:

“When they met, she was based in Brussels but that same year she moved back to Washington, reportedly because the CIA believed her name had been on a list handed to the Russians by the double agency Aldrich Ames in 1994 and that she may have been compromised.”

“Reportedly.” “May have been compromised.”

Like I said, not factual, merely speculation.

It’s tempting to point out that if outed by Ames, and her covert status blown, she could not have been so emphatically described as covert by Waxman’s opening statement, which carries the imprimatur of legitimacy of having been approved for release by the head of the CIA, unlike all of your claims.

But that would be speculative, and as I said, irrelevant in any case to the careless actions of the Bush administrations.

Now please run along, little girl, and beat your dead horse somewhere else, ‘kay?

“She also claims to be a principal author of the IIPA. Not true.”

Could that be why Leahy left the record open? That by making that statement under oath, that Toensing was in fact perjuring herself?

Great job on keith, and excellent post as usual.

Allow me though, to clear up the schizophrenic confusion. Westmoreland and Toensing will never be in a mental ward because there behavior is entirely predictable and makes social sense. They go after democrats. Period. Their actions are never the slightest bit irrational.

(Except when one of them goes on the Colbert report…)

…..Larry;

Don’t you just feel like waterboarding some of these rednecks?…..

LOL. P E R F E C T ! Rednecks, they ARE. I totally shudder at the thought of a Priscilla Owen or a Harriet Miers nearly being appointed to sit on our US Supreme Court — forever. Do you all realize what slimeballs divorced Texas women are, particularly when they have been “educated” at Texas universities and lawschools?

Larry, I am missing Kim.

[S]he made comments bizarre enough to engage the most poetic patron [and disengage the least]. Sadly, conciliary conclusions invariably suggested a right wing tendency where the end truly justifies the means.

Now all we have are Other Tom’s and Sexion’s…and this new guy[?] Bellerophon.

“Communism is only a way of dealing with the people”.

Way to go, Joe!!!!!

Kim channeled Harriet Miers and Vic Toensing at every available chance. In fact she probably answers emails at one of the think tanks Vic gets paid to pimpo at.

marty- I know I’m not seeing the forest for the trees. obviously the whole thing is a massive lie.

I just think if somone were to ask the president “what “significant quantities” were you referring to?”

he would without a doubt be stuck. I’ve asked a bunch of people and the only figure we can find is 500 tons.

He tried to parce the hell out of that line but he didn’t go quite far enough.

First off, it’s obscene for any of you to be speculating about the Wilson’s pillow talk.

Secondly, rightwingnuts, if as Andrea Mitchell said “everyone in DC knew who she was” aside from being Wilson’s wife, than isn’t that a crime, in and of itself, and isn’t that why on Imus, Mitchell, referring to her statement, said “I must have been drunk?”

Thirdly, Republicans like Hume, making charges of criminality without a shred of evidence is nothing new or out of the ordinary.

And finally, that Bell dude should stop pretending he’s an insider.

Toensing was obviously, transparently and deliberately trying to blur the discusson about covert status with her constant and annoying re-referal to her career credentials, and also by playing word tricks with IIPA language.

Something I learned in divorce court; when a special definition of a term is not spelled out, then the definition reverts to either the plain language or precedent, or possibly both.

The word she contantly twisted was “serving”. There is no requirement in the law to establish residency in the place where an operative is serving, therefore serving must mean the place where job duties are performed.

Consider an analogy. If establishing residency was required to perform service, then because none of our soldiers have established residency in either Iraq or Afghanistan, (their official residences are back home) then the conlusion would have to be that the U.S. has NO soldiers serving in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Right? Another analogy; I go to work, but I don’t live there; especially when it comes to out of town business trips. But service is still performed.

Also consider, directly about covert operatives, there probably are instances where if an operative established residency in the place where they served their job duties, to do so might reveal their covert status, which means you would have a requirement in the law which trumps it’s own purpose.

MudKitty , I agree with you wholeheartedly… ybnormal, you are right on target, Toesring was just a necessary distraction. The thugs have no language or precendent to fall back upon. No facts? No problem… Just create a temporary distraction, and the American people will forget about it… WRONG… This time, it will not work…Their time is coming, and coming soon.

Centroocitta writes: “Do you all realize what slimeballs divorced Texas women are, particularly when they have been “educated” at Texas universities and lawschools?”

Please feel free to explain yourself. I’m just dying to hear your explanation. I am divorced and hold a Bachelor of Science in Geography and Political Science from a Texas University.

Waiting in Texas….

As a native Texan of Cajun extraction I also take offense to Centroocitta’s broad brush. Yo, stupid how about Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Ann Richards? The people that really perverted Texas politics were not native Texans. Mainly the Bush family. You can go to any law school in the country and pick out a few Harriets or Albertos. Please check out some of the Neocon bastards who got their ticket punched at Harvard etc. I will not waste my time with your continued education but you might go back and check where the Neocon movement was birthed. Guess what! It was not at the U. of Texas nor any other Texas U. As I have said elsewhere, the south does not have an exclusive on bigots, cousin fuckers and stupidity.

Thanks again, Larry. Nice post. Mind boggling how many people are aggressively ignorant, and determined to stay that way.

focsle pointed out that the current criminals running the Executive branch will be gone in 18 months. Too bad the effects of their crimes will linger for much much longer. If I ever have grandkids, they’ll be paying cash for these crimes.

well said MEP

Bellerophon writes: “The only conclusion one can draw is that Joe and ‘Val,’ as her intimates refer to her, hatched this entire internecine scam from the beginning. Wilson, believing that he could snare Cheney and Rove into a trap where they would get at him by ‘outing’ his wife’s identity, screwed the pooch.”

sounds like a vast, left wing conspiracy to me.

thanks again larry for your continued patriotism!

…..Please feel free to explain yourself. I’m just dying to hear your explanation. I am divorced and hold a Bachelor of Science in Geography and Political Science from a Texas University…..

And that’s no doubt why you’re still “Waiting in Texas”, as your Texas “education” obviously doesn’t allow you to compete anywhere else, unless of course, like Harriet, you managed to tag along with Bush. Now, I’m not saying Harriet is “competing”. Far from it. I’m just saying she got lucky, but you DID notice that the Senate wasn’t having any of her nonsense, didn’t you?

I was thinking that surely I misunderstood you to begin with, but obviously not. And why you have chosen to insult me, is beyond me. Why would I tag along with Bush – he’s a traitor to this country.

Don’t profess to know anything about me because of the name I post under or that I’m from Texas.

For the record, my education has taken me many places – why gawlee, I spent several years living in Europe and did just fine.

You must inform the rest of us about your education since you’re so high and mighty.

First… Thanks again Larry for your insight and for providing a forum. Now before this old fart goes back to work I will attempt to draw attention to why I go to sleep every night with an overwelming sense of foreboding. Nixon leaves office..the nation sighs with relief. The long nightmare is beginning to end. Ford pardons Nixon, the depth of the crimes are hidden. Gerry continues to further educate Donald and Dick in the ways of power. Brief outrage, then the country gives another collective sigh and carries on with life. As the American public dances and the band plays on the Neocon establishment get their collective shit together as to how to finance the long term destruction of the Constitution. Enter Ronnie, the Nation is proud. We whip the shit out of Grenada, stomp the crap out of those dirty UNION air traffic controllers, deregulate anything and everything. The thinkers shout EUREKA! Let’s begin to privatize everything we can and let our Corp. buddies buy everything up. Hell lets give them all sorts of tax breaks to make it easier. Somebody whisper in Ronnies ear that there are Commie bastards taking over South and Central America. Call Henry K. he might have some ideas! We must protect the stablity of the price of bannanas. WHAT? There are drugs coming from there? All the more reason to bring these people to heal. So what if most of the people that will die do not even speak Spanish much less Russian. Do they know the difference between Democracy and Communism? Who gives a shit! The guys we are backing make Nero look good. They are COMMIES! Proceed! The band plays the flag waves. Wait, those dirty Dems do not want us waging war with the indian beaners? Ask Ollie, he might have some ideas. Him, Secord and Elliot are always playing World Shapers, let them play with it. Want a jelly bean? That bastard Bush sneaks in here while I’m out and eats all the good ones. wonder what else he’s up to? You mean they are really going to investigate as in oaths and such? Holy Twenty Mule Team!!!!!! CIRCLE THE WAGONS. Tell Ollie he needs to get his uniform cleaned before lying, I mean testifying. Hey there Brent, see if you can lend a hand. Yeah I like that saddle too. In marches GHWB. The trail leading to him was buried under more pardons. Convictions were reversed by the lack of exposed evidence. It’s over folks…move on. And on and on and on. “I feel your pain” no Monica that does not hurt, please continue. Now remember guys I’ll play ball as long as me and Hill get our piece of the pie. No Monica, that would be “Having sex”. I never liked that Arky cracker, lets smear him with a sex scandal. But Newt, you love parking lot hummers. And your elected from the south. Yeah but I don’t get hummers in the Oval Office,”Maybe someday” and besides the Bible Beaters Choir need some blood. Need to keep those people motivated. Damn their easy, not you darling your just loyal to the cause.
If you waded this far you deserve a punch line.
We keep cutting the weed off and leave the root. How many thousands will die while We the People wait for the next 18 months to pass. I need a show of hands. How many of us believe that this bunch will go “quietly into that good night” by due process and electorial change? I fear their crimes are too great. I can only speak for myself but I am sick and tired of being politically correct. These people are evil murdering bastards and do not give a shit about what political preceptions “We the People” might have. Heres a flash…They know they are lying and they don’t care. END OF RANT

….Don’t profess to know anything about me because of the name I post under or that I’m from Texas….

I would bet my eye teeth that you’re from Texas, reason being, that Texas schools attract few American students from other states. Plenty of foreign nationals, though, as Texas tuition is the cheapest in the country. Texas ranks close to number one in SIZE. But compared to the rest of the states, it’s BELOW standard in every other aspect. I think even TEXANS are seeing the handwriting on the wall now and that’s why they are claiming Bush isn’t a native. Here’s a little secret. Bush didn’t get that way by being from Maine. He got that way because he’s been in Texas long enough to be considered a native. And YOU know it.

“Secondly, rightwingnuts, if as Andrea Mitchell said “everyone in DC knew who she was” aside from being Wilson’s wife, than isn’t that a crime, in and of itself, and isn’t that why on Imus, Mitchell, referring to her statement, said “I must have been drunk?”"

Everyone DID know who she was… AFTER the leak campaign. You have to wonder if that isn’t what they were referring to.

One of my friends watched the hearing. She described Valerie as listening to the GOP congresscritters with this adoring, ‘dumb blonde’ expression, and then going completely business when she answered them. My friend said it’s clearly an effective technique: the men are so used to being The Authority, being listened to by their wives and children, that they gave away more to Valerie than they realized.

Centrocitta
I’ve got work to do and I will not spend time on you past this post but you now have pissed me off. You are an ignorant bitch. W spent his summers in Maine and went to private school in the North East. Andover then Yale. While growing up the guy never spnet enough time in Texas to work up a sweat. His whole personna was created by Karl and Company. Side note Karl is from Utah. Which really has nothing to do with you being an ignorant bitch. I noticed you avoided responding to my previous post directed your way. Whats the matter sweetie afraid to put your lofty intellect on the line? Too late I’ll let others judge your stupidity. I fear you may be the result of the type of sexual coupling that I referenced earlier. You appear to have a few genes missing.

Centrocitta:
Of course I’m from Texas. Don’t understand what your complaining about and furthermore, don’t care.

As your original post indicates, you ask to be forgiven being out of touch because you are overseas.

We have a friendly little community on this site and lets keep it that way.

Undercover, Covert, and Classified (Also Hush Hush)

Larry Johnson (former CIA classmate of Valerie Plame) explains what it means to be covert. Handy little read to help rebut right-wing world talking points.

Toensing’s definition of *protected* covert status should send shivers down the spine of the intelligence community — if Plame isn’t protected, then who is?

who in their right mind would work for CIA if there’s no identity protection?

MEP! Most excellent RANT – and a history lesson that would work for the attention span of today’s “audience”- hmmm…should be made in to some sort of YouTube video, and let it fly over the Internets…hey! there’s an idea there. A series of them. Hmm…I have some friends I am going to go bug about that. I’m serious. If you are amenable to idea, may we borrow the idea/and or phrasing? Any credit/attribution you desire is how the video (accompanying titles) would be handled.
let me know…

Uppity Gal

Thanks it was my pleasure. Check your mail.

Excellent Larry, an absolute tour de force.

Georgia elections are run by Diebold, cut those people some slack.

Southern Republicans do make some of the worst statements of record we can read or hear or see, this side of Joe Lieberman.

As for the State of Texas it has a unique and independent historical role that was pivotal in America’s expanse era.

That george Bush hijacked the better nature of Texas and claimed it as his, when he is truly “All Hat, no Cattle,” is a crime; of proportions unparallel in the State’s proud and celebrated history.

As for the argument going on, Dubya was an elite northeastern son of privilege. You cannot blame Texas for the fact that most of America has been dumbed down.

The media apparatus made him, like it made an alzheimer’s ridden divorced actor into a brave leader.

It’s bigger than any one state, as the vote thefts have proven in FLA and Ohio. They simply ply their goods at the next destination, like snake oil salesmen.

Don’t say a Texan didn’t warn you(me).

RIP, Molly.

I think that the ‘k’ poster is ‘kim’.

….W spent his summers in Maine and went to private school in the North East. Andover then Yale. While growing up the guy never spnet enough time in Texas to work up a sweat….

A previous warmonger named Lyndon Baines Johnson was born and bred in Texas. THAT man, of no honor whatsoever, wore a Medal of Honor on his lapel, which he never earned. What’s your excuse for him? And isn’t it strange that Lyndon just happened to be VP when JFK was murdered in Dallas, of all places. Too young to remember, maybe? Well, that’s your problem.

Centrocitta writes: “Do you all realize what slimeballs divorced Texas women are, particularly when they have been “educated” at Texas universities and lawschools? ”

the hell?

Sheee-it, you sound like somebody who went and married one and got behind in the alimony payments.

–or something.

Larry, I have processed a wild amount of information of the last couple of day. On top of that I have decided I am going to tackle Prokofiev’s 7th piano sonata.

In many ways Plame is a nobody who has become a somebody. I would like a few somebodies to become nobodies. Mr M rightly talks about following the money. The key is 911. Try dialing it!

We need skeletons and then America can be exorcised.

At the moment the dem’s are chasing the republican tail, which is largely their own fault….if you know what I mean.

….if you know what I mean.
Posted by: Thinker

No,I don’t.Don’t care to either.

From the WSJ of 3/20:
“The Intelligence Identities Protection Act makes it a federal crime to intentionally reveal the identity of an agent whom one knows to be covert. So how can anyone be accused of knowingly revealing Valerie Plame’s identity as a covert agent if Valerie Plame herself didn’t know if she was covert according to the law?

That pretty much settles the question, doesn’t it? If Plame’s status was secret even from herself, how could “leaker” Richard Armitage or “perjurer” Scooter Libby possibly have known?”

wtf? We should really come up with an award for desperate parsing!
“if Valerie Plame herself didn’t know if she was covert according to the law?” The rest of it just follows the same non-sensical structure. The entire structure is flawed.

so, since you seem to be answering your own flasely constructed question, with the predetermined incorrect answer, why are you grinding through the trouble to post?

Is your point really how poorly worded and constructed the IIPA is? which is not the Espionage Act btw, and this statement is such a non-starter…do yourself a favor and skip law school; it would really, really painful.

OH my.. the infamous moron Greywolf strikes again. Clown like and silly, he makes no sense. Val…and most agents are not lawyers, but they know they are covert and top secret because all their papers are so marked, and their bosses tell them they are not allowed to give out any info about themselves so as to blow their cover. That is what their training is for. How can you be so stupid as to know that Gen. Haynes the head of the CIA has stated that she is classified…and still believe what the red-dyed Toensing said. She is a paid stooge for the RNC. She admitted she had never spoken with the CIA or with Plame to check out her theory.She is worse than useless, and so are you Moron Greywolf.

Graywolf copies from an editorial: “The Intelligence Identities Protection Act makes it a federal crime to intentionally reveal the identity of an agent whom one knows to be covert.”

Good for you. Now kindly quote that portion of the IIPA which states that the person authorized to receive classified information who reveals that name to a person not so authorized must know that the agent is covert.

I’ll be waiting. Take your time.

Here’s a link to get you started, Sonny. Hours of fun. Don’t come back without an answer.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sup_01_50_10_15_20_IV.html

And no drinking, either, until you get results. I’m tired of apologizing to the neighbors when you show up hammered and run over their mailbox.

Time you started to care, Shaman, but I wasn’t talking to you anyway.

For others who might be confused, I am not convinced the Democrat “strategy” was not part of the plan. Clearly, evidence of ‘niavity’ [pah] has secured the Dems as complicit in everything that went on to date.

In fairness to the blue promise, perhaps some campaign members would not have believed that the Republicans could be so bullishly “New World Order”. If some prominent Republicans experience some real pain, only then shall I eat my words.

Now I am talking to you, Shaman. Even if “you don’t care”, if anything is still unclear, I’ll happily divulge another layer of detail.

“Since the CIA will only acknowledge that Valerie worked at the CIA from 2002 on this means the travel General Hayden refers to occurred in 2002 and 2003.”

Could you provide me with a citation to proof of this statement. I am trying to convince a wingnut that Plame was covert and this would really help. I thought I had this info somewhere else but now I can’t seem to locate it.

Mark Johnson,

I think you only need to view the video of Waxman statements. I am certain that if Waxman said something inaccurate General Haynes would have corrected the Congressional Record and it would have made front page news.

Here is a 3 minute video of Toensing. See how the stupidity shines through. She demonstrates her complete and total absent of expertise in this area of covert and spies. None at all, complete fool. If anyone uses her as an expert or source of expertise then they are to fools.

Here is the Tom Davis and Victoria Toensing happy shit cluster fuck.

Posted by: EasyRider | Monday, 19 March 2007 at 01:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvAOfJUwEJo

Be amazed at the stupidity of this moron.

Larry,

There are plenty of dumbasses out there who aren’t Southerners. Here’s two for you. Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Maybe you can explain you essay to them.They need the help.