Barack Obama Running From Barry Soetoro

yttik….As you can see, when you repeatedly tell lies, you lose track of what you have said.  barry is a pathological liar; he truly believes what he spews.

It is time for journalists to show some backbone and integrity and get to the bottom of the birth certificate fiasco.  This story would put someone on the map.  Just ask Woodward and Bernstein who knew a hot story when they smelled one!!

“Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”

http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

oowawa:  I am not even sure barry was born; he might have been hatched!  Stick some feathers on him and he could be the darker version of Big Bird.

“Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”

Yep.  You missed it.  Here’s what Trump said on Scarborough:

“Because, if I decide to run, I’d like to beat him straight up, not on an issue like this,” he continued. “But, he shows a certificate of life birth, which is totally different. And I have to say, if this were Bush or somebody else, he would be run out of office,” adding that Obama’s grandmother in Kenya said he was born there.

“The grandmother in Kenya is on record saying he was born in Kenya,” Trump said. “The hospital has, not only no birth certificate — or if they have it they should produce it, maybe there is something on it, who knows — but they have no records that he was there. The family is fighting over which hospital in Hawaii he was born in.

“There is not one record, in any hospital in Hawaii, that Barack Hussein Obama was born there,” he added.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Trump: Grandma Says Obama Was Born in Kenya
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

Doesn’t matter one way or the other what Obama wanted. If he was an Indonesian citizen, case closed.  He’s ineligible. You’re providing facts against the very point your trying to make. The natural born clause is to prevent split allegiances. That you would suggest is lack of renunciation is really stupid.

Larry, I read something a while back that the mother had to remain in the US for a specific time period (5 years) if the father (vice-versa) was not a citizen in order for the child to be a citizen.  Also, there is something about the father’s country making him a citizen automatically of that country.

More research please.

It seems to me that Trump’s main stance in regards to the birth certificate is that there are enough questionable circumstances surrounding it and so much effort has been expended in keeping it hidden, that we can justifiably be very suspicious at what might be on the certificate.  So let’s see!  Trump may well be following a red herring in pursuing the birth certificate.  I hope we know once and for all some day.

Thanks, Larry, for introducing this other document of interest into the discussion.

Get a room………….

I’m not impressed by your ignorance.  Here is what the State Department states:

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Okay, I haven’t seen this brought up before, so I’ll throw it in there.  What if Barry was not born in any hospital at all, but delivered by a midwife or such in somebody’s house (perhaps in Hawaii, perhaps who knows where).  Then what?

Jesus, you are dense.  By virtue of being born to a US mother in Hawaii he is a US citizen.  As stated by the State Department:

In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. 

You are a walking definition of OBTUSE.

Knew that the facts would shut you up.

The relevant law is:


The Court stated that:  
The constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words [citizen and natural born citizen], either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except in so far as this is done by the affirmative declaration that ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.’[9]  
Since the Constitution does not specify what the requirements are to be a “citizen” or a “natural born citizen”, the majority adopted the common law of England:

Subsequently obtaining citizenship in Indonesia does not invalidate the fact he is a U.S. citizen.

Howard Dean. >:o

US recognizes dual citizenship with countries who have the same policy.  There are countries that give out citizenship and simultaneously canceling the previous citizenship or stating that by acquiring the new citizenship, the previous one is automatically given up.  Indonesia might have such a policy.

Yes, I believe it is possible to renounce US citizenship but there is an official procedure you must follow. In other words, you have to be proactive about renouncing it – you can’t just lose it by mistake.

Dual citizenship enables you to be an American citizen, but not natural born.  And to be president you are to be natural born.  That is the way I see it.

So a child born to British citizens traveling here in the US is fully eligible to run for President of the USA and later run for Prime Minister of the UK when he grows up?

He’s a creep.

Signed

A Black Woman

He did Mr. Johnson by virtue of legal adoption by a foreign national.  He didn’t have to “give it up”. His parents, apparently with the consent of his US citizen mother, allowed him to become a citizen of  a foreign country Indonesia.

Exactly when did Obama regain his US citizenship?

I a reposting this.  This is the way I see it.  I answered a person up above.  From a Canadian point of view, I see it this way:

No, natural born was “natural born” in the US I understand the reason being so that people would not have dual loyalties – like maybe enter into some other country’s war because the president’s family came from that country.  With Obama, we already have him campaigning for Odinga of Kenya during the last election there.   
 
Canada has no “natural born” clause, but the US does and I think it is a good thing.  I think the grandchilddren of immigrrants become more bonded to their country of birth because the first generation has his foot in two countries.  I see that all the time here in Canada.  I am not objecting, but I woud like the Prime Minister to love and put Canada first.  I see where the US is coming from.

Very interesting article pointing out that Obama’s State Dept. manual was modified (August 2009) to expand the holding of the Wong Kim Ark case:  http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/the-obama-administration-quietly-scrubbed-the-foreign-affairs-manual-in-august-2009-to-expand-the-holding-of-wong-kim-ark/

“Usually, an alteration of the Foreign Affairs Manual would only be warranted if the law had been changed or clarified by the Supreme Court or by a statute.  But there was no official change in the law.  The manual was simply scrubbed… along with the Constitution.”
.

Larry, thank you for this article.  The issue of anyone natural born citizenship status is evidently fairly complex. 

I believe you will find Leo Donofrio’s blog (http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com) to have very well-reasoned articles about the natural born citizenship issues.  When you have a few minutes, you might enjoy checking it out!
.

“we really should make sure our next leader has a good work ethic and servant’s heart.”

gee, that really sounds like a certain former governor of Alaska. 

He is also hiding his school records, which have more to hide than his birth certificate. One of his classmates at Occidental mentioned during the campaign that Obama went to Columbia on a “foreign student scholarship”. Ok, the only way to do that is to sign an affadavit swearing you are a citizen of another country, or produce a passport showing that you are a citizen of another country. Either of these actions would be listed and documented in the scholarship application. So Obama would be guilty of perjury and fraud to say the least if the records were revealed and showed that he had taken the scholarship under false pretenses. Also, having sworn he was a citizen of another country would raise the birther claim all over again, this time with teeth. It would, at the very least, raise questions of dual allegiance.

There are several degrees that you can get at Columbia, not all of them from Columbia University. They have a General Studies program which is much easier and takes less time than a CU degree. Columbia has been very careful in what they have said about Obama. They said that he had a degree from Columbia, not a degree from Columbia University. They would not say what the degree was in, as to major etc. and they didn’t give a class that he graduated with. Most universities when asked about a famous graduate will give the type of degree, the year graduated and probably trot out the yearbook as well. Columbia did none of these things for Obama, in fact the less said about Obama the better as far as Columbia is concerned. And he was only there for nine months. Not enough time to get a degree, even with two years of Occidental credits. And those school records would also show the letter written by a sheik to Harvard asking that Obama be admitted to the Law School. So the idea that he made it on brains and work goes out the window and fraud rears its ugly head. No wonder the schmuck spent millions keeping them hidden. Revealing them would show he is a liar, a cheat and a fraud. It would also open him to charges of perjury and grand theft. Any scholarship obtained through fraud is seen as grand theft, larceny by fraud. Very sticky legal situation, especially for a sitting president.

The problem with that is that Obama, Sr. went back to Kenya with another white woman who gave birth to his son. It wasn’t Ann Dunham, it was Ruth Nides. Obama, Sr. and Ruth Nides had two sons. One of them is probably the one that the grandmother remembers being born.

And since Obama’s Indonesian citizenship, which is required by Indonesian law when adopted by an Indonesian, was acquired through his mother’s actions and not his own, he being a minor at the time, and since that citizenship was given up when Ann divorced Soetero, the point is moot. The COLB that Obama displays as his birth certificate is the form that is given to children when their adoptive circumstances change, so it was issued when Ann came back to the US and changed Barry back to a US citizen. ALL the changes were done when Obama was a minor and therefore legally not responsible. If he claimed citizenship after he attained his majority, for any reason, then we can question his motives, if not his actual citizenship. That is why I want to see his school records, I want to know if he used Indonesian citizenship to get a scholarship or any other foreign student privileges. If he did, it’s fraud and prosecutable.

No, he would not be eligible for President as neither of his parents are US citizens.

Larry, I was answering Tony about the two British citizens having a child in the US. As I read the law, one cannot be president if neither of the parents are US citizens. Am I wrong about that?? And that child would be born with dual citizenship and would have it until the age of 18 when the child would have to chose of which country they wished to be a citizen.

My 2 cents on Trump and BC. He is not pursuing a deadend. He is going for the jugular. Show your BC or else.. that gives him the advantage to bring in the ‘birther’ characterization and get sympathy from that crowd as well as putting Obama people on notice about what not to do with the voters. He is asking questions and raising reasonable doubt in people’s mind. He is not saying he has proof Obama was born in Kenya, he is too smart for that.

Same thing with the book Dreams.. Ayers is going around mocking  righties and saying ‘yeah, I wrote the book’ sarcastically of course. But what does Trump do? he is introducing that in the recent interviews as fact that Ayers admitted to writing the first book (all the while pumping Ayers ego likening him to Hemingway). What will Ayers do or Obama people do — say that he was joking or being sarcastic?

Trump is going after many things and BC is just the most effective one for him right now. All these nuanced arguments will be lost on the masses but they can understand the simple question: ‘is he eligible or not?’, ‘Why won’t he just put that question to rest?’

Note that children born in the US to tourists — or even to illegal aliens — are US citizens by birth. Some politicians have proposed changing the law to deny citizenship to US-born children unless at least one parent is a US citizen or permanent resident alien (“green card” holder). However, since such children are guaranteed citizenship by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (see the Supreme Court’s rulings in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark and Afroyim v. Rusk), it is unlikely that this part of the INA could be successfully changed without another amendment to the Constitution. Even attempts to deny citizenship to such children by redefining them as not being subject to US jurisdiction (as proposed, for instance, by various bills in the current Congress) would probably have a rough time in the courts on account of the Wong Kim Ark precedent.

He didn’t return for memorial service/funeral, did he? As many breaks as he took while campaigning, one would think this would have been a critical one.

Note that children born in the US to tourists — or even to illegal aliens — are US citizens by birth. Some politicians have proposed changing the law to deny citizenship to US-born children unless at least one parent is a US citizen or permanent resident alien (“green card” holder). However, since such children are guaranteed citizenship by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution (see the Supreme Court’s rulings in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark and Afroyim v. Rusk), it is unlikely that this part of the INA could be successfully changed without another amendment to the Constitution. Even attempts to deny citizenship to such children by redefining them as not being subject to US jurisdiction (as proposed, for instance, by various bills in the current Congress) would probably have a rough time in the courts on account of the Wong Kim Ark precedent.

I think that if it comes out that backtrack is not legally entitled to be president of the USA, the fallout could bring down the government. It would make the democratic party guilty of fraud. Every bill signed by him since January 20 2009 would null and void.
That might be one reason for backtrack’s arrogance toward congress and the Supreme Court. He has them by the throat and they know the fallout would be terrible.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

Regarding Trump, he has never concluded that Obama was or was not born in Hawaii. What he is doing is raising questions and conflicts that can only be resolved by Obama producing a birth certificate. Trump in interviews simply asks: “what is he hiding?” That is a very fair question.

Clearly Trump’s opening salvo to get into this campaign was to intentionally rocket him to the top of the heap of GOP hopefuls and it worked.

I think where he goes with this is to begin to question Obama’s entire life – some of which Larry and others raised here including his schooling and college. We have never had a presidential candidate who was excused from such examination and whose background raises enormous issues. I believe Trump’s people are unearthing and piecing together the links that will paint Obama as an undesirable individual and not the all-American political Horatio Alger story. Maybe even a manchurian candidate.

I think even if he was born in Hawaii there is much more to this man’s background that was excused by the media and McCain in the last election that would have prevented him from winning any election and severely damaging this country. In a Trump election Obama’s background will be intrinsically linked to his actions as President.

Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United States:  

“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Sounds like he’s reiterating what granny said to me.

and will produce all of his papers. =-O

Well, arabella, honesty and the ability to tell the truth have become passe for a great number of people, most certainly including the majority of politicians and bureauxrats. Why be honest when one can spin bs into a souffle that the masses will consume in a single sitting, clamoring for more? Why be honesst when one can change the subject, blame the messenger, or repeat the same lie over and over again until no on knows what the damn truth is? NPDs like That One keep the pot so stirred and the misdirection so prevalent that you’d need a bushel of god damn bread crumbs to find your way out.

Because his candidacy was “historic”,  which means it was chock full of histrionics.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

<i>When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

<b>In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was</b> both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and <b>a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.</b>
</i>

Ha! LOL, Larry first you give a foreign format that reverses the birth date and now all the NQ comments are turned completely upside down! Next I’ll be expected to read comments from right to left and type backwards.

Great post Larry.  You will always be fighting a losing battle trying to use logic on those who have let their emotions run away with them.  Like you, I have long believed there is some information on the long form certificate that the Obama camp has wanted to remain private.  Something that would have made him more difficult to elect, but not something making him ineligble.

I also think this issue has consumed so many and kept them (including the media) from probing things that would have been far more important.  One being, the pyschological state of a man who has been abandoned by two fathers, often neglected by a mom who ran all over the world chasing something and then shunted off with his black looks to live in the heart of white america with his white grandparents.  He made this out to be a triumphant tale in his books.  On the other hand, anyone who lives through that must have some really deep seated crap going on his head.

Maureen Dowd spent 8 years making sport of George W. Bush’s daddy issues,  well they are probably minor league compared to the current occupant of the White House.

“Telling the truth is the right thing to do. It has the added benefit of making your life so much easier.”

Ah, my mother’s ghost is nodding in approval.  She always used to preach the old homily: “Oh what a tangled web we weave/When we practice to deceive.”

Being raised in Hawaii backtrack did not run into as much prejudice as he could have if he lived on the mainland.
He has a grandmother who worked to keep him and he turned on her because of skin color.
He does have a lot of issues, but some of them are just excuses for bad behavior.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

Barack has no control over what his parents did in regards to his citizenship as a child. If his mother renounced his American citizenship since Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, it would’ve just been a matter of Barack coming to America at 18 and reclaiming it as a legal adult, right?  Or at least asserting his American citizenship and renouncing his Indonesian citzenship.  But what if he didn’t? What if while it was to his benefit, he claimed Indonesian citizenship, took educational and scholarship benefits as an Indonesian student and traveled under an Indonesian passport? 

Can a person be a state senator, US Senator and US President with dual citizenship?

I think Barack could’ve been born in Hawaii. At home. That’s why there’s no hospital records. Or it’s just easier to say Hawaii on the Indonesian paperwork because that’s where the birth certificate was filed. I think Barack Sr is not the biological father. He was either a patsy or a willing particpant in the marriage to give the baby a name to avoid scandal.  That could also explain Barack Srs total disinterest in his sons life and the fact that people in Hawaii didn’t even know they were dating nor did they live togather in any sort of fashion after marriage.  Barack Sr took the money, went on with his life and never looked back.

Stanley took Barack to Indonesia, he was adopted and given Indonesian citizenship. Barack Sr didn’t care since it wasn’t his child.  Barack Jr came back to Hawaii, took advantage of said citizenship while it benefited him until he realized what a legal pickle he put himself in.  By then, he was the up and coming golden boy of the Democratic party, they were invested in him and they couldn’t risk the scandal if it was discovered, so they made the evidence disapear.

Problem is, Obama told stories that made his personal narrative sound better. And the proof, evidence and paperwork doesn’t match the story.  So he and his cronies had no choice but to hide, destroy or make up evidence that did rather than admit they were duped by a fraud.  And that’s the scandal.

Sadly, if Baracks story was as I imagined, it’d still be quite interesting and informative.  And he still could’ve been a best selling author and influential in Democratic politics.

I think Obama is running for re-election in 2012.  His past records are not a dead end topic if they are brought into the campaign and become an issue.  Who is this guy, and what is his exact history?  He was never properly vetted because the MSM was in worship mode.  That’s the issue.

oowawa, Trump is doing that with everyone who was thrown under the bus by Obama.. poor Wright, see how Obama dumped him for all his care.. where is his loyalty and on ..

But they’re afraid if they do, oowawa, there won’t be any hope hormones left to fuel their fertile imaginations…..

In fact, oowawa, I’ve heard Donald Trump (radio interview) say that he thinks Obama was born in the US but wants to know why he and his people refuse to perform the simple act of presenting an actual birth certificate.

People seem to be ignoring what an actual certificate should look like.  All this information–school enrollment and copies of the twins bcs came out during the campaign–and completely ignored.  Larry Sinclair was ignored; the suspicious deaths in Chicago, the murder of the person who breached the passport file, the fraudulent SSN, the fraudulent Selective Service form–all the suspicious information was out there and completely ignored by MSM and a good many of the blogging sites.

When I first saw him on the political scene, when he gave the address at the Dem Convention, I was enthralled with him and yes, I thought he was handsome.  But before the Dem primary was over, I realized he was a common con, a dirty politician, not better than any other dirty politician, and now when I see him, he turns my stomach.  I don’t see a good looking man, I see the scum of the earth!  I guess the old saying is true:  pretty is as pretty does.

Excellent statement, yttik!  And it’s certainly not just the birth certificate–it’s all the other blank spots in Obama’s life for which we have no information.  It’s “connect the dots” to find out what this guy looks like–but too many of the dots are missing, and he has taken extraordinary steps to make sure that we cannot find them.

Name-calling, Larry?

Helenk—If Obama is proven not to be a US citizen there will be a HUGE upheavel…I think that there are many many top Dems that know and/or in on it…  Reid, Peloski, both Clintons, and all the White House Czars…I have a feeling that Wright, Ayers and Rezko know a whole Hell of a lot too.

The good thing about Trump in on this mess is that he has money, connections, and  some power(probably more than we realize)…
I think Trump just might get the BC issue cleared

Larry In all the blogs I have avocated for no name calling and comments about appearance.
I will say overall the people against Obama are better at sticking to it…
If you look at most of the liberal blogs…You find that over 50% of the time the names of Bush, Cheney  and Palin, along with many other right wing politicians and medias people  are used in ways that are down right vulgar….

that is one area that got me …  
I had a friend that was slapped on the wrist for I think a teaching license application because she forgot to list one of her names from a divorce. If it was ever omitted in any further applications to them or communication that required names used she would lose and/or not get a license.

Kinthenorthwest,

The question is not is Obama a citizen? (his mother was American and therefore he has the right to claim the American citizenship). The question is how and when did he got his American citizenship.

To be eligible to the US Presidency you have to be born governed exclusively by the laws of the US. Meaning you have to have been born an American citizen and only an American citizen. Which translate in practicality into being born on the territory of the US from TWO Us citizens. That’s the definition of Natural Born.

The opposite concept to Natural Born is born with several citizenships.

The other interesting question would be to know when Obama’s citizenship status has been properly straigthen out. My bet is quite recently and may after his election to the Illinois or US Senate. Which would make these elections invalid.

“ I think they underestimated the ability of Americans to understand this point, ….”

Ha ha Larry, I think you’ve OVERestimated the ability of Americans to understand the solid points you’ve made. I’ve been all over this matter for a while now, and you’re 100% correct with your understanding of what determines “natural born” status, and thus, Presidential eligibility.

Contrary to the “modern” belief that the founders wanted a high bar for eligibility, they actually wanted to cast a rather broad net for natural born, or “native born” citizens (it’s important to point out that that people who make a distinction between “natural born” and “native born” are wrong, the two terms are used interchangeably in much of the legally binding verbiage, sometimes to the extent that they’re used in the same sentence as equivalents). People need to consider the perspective of the Founders at the TIME they wrote the Constitution, not from OUR current perspective. There was a revolutionary war that divided the Colonists practically right down the middle, and at the end of the war, it was imperative that that rift be healed as quickly as possible. During this country’s infancy, the Founding Fathers adopted an attitude of inclusiveness, not exclusiveness, they wanted as many people as possible to enjoy the hard earned principles of individual liberty and self determination that were the bedrock of their new philosophy of governance, and they wanted as many new citizens as possible to build on that philosophy. “Natural born” is a legal term of art that was used for hundreds of years in British common law, and it too was far more INCLUSIVE than EXCLUSIVE, the British, always wishing to extend their Empire and their jurisdiction over as much of the World as possible, WANTED as many of the people within their various colonies to be British citizens so that they would have jurisdiction over them. Since our Constitution was crafted by men (mostly lawyers) who were brought up with British common law, it is only reasonable that they would incorporate much of that common law into the legal document that would be the principle controlling law that would guide their new nation. In British common law, a child born to two foreigners on British soil, was considered a “natural born” subject of the British empire, “jus soli” (right of the soil) is the term, as opposed to “jus sanguiness”, (right of blood) which confers citizenship to children born ANYWHERE to at least ONE parent who was a citizen. Both jus soli AND jus sanguiness apply to US natural born citizenship as well, and all subsequent court rulings, even the SCOTUS, support this interpretation. It’s counterintuitive to us from our perspective, but the Founders actually seemed to focus more tightly upon who was NOT eligible for the Presidency, namely, anyone who was born outside this country to non-citizens, “NATURALIZED” citizens are not eligible…… poor Arnold.

Birth certificate or not, Obama is eligible because of his mother’s citizenship alone, and although legally and technically, since Obama’s ‘claimed’ father was a British citizen, Obama was also a British citizen, but there is nothing in the Constitution that makes a “dual” citizen ineligible.

Now, if the Founders had envisioned the possibility of a Barrack Obama, I’m sure they would have added to the Constitution the restriction “No America hating, class envious, lazy incompetent assholes are allowed to be the President”, then we would have had ample reason to disqualify him.

>>> the fallout could bring down the government.

First, the Government is like, “The Blob.” Stopping it can get extremely messy. Especially for the StoppOR.

Second, when it comes to Mendacity and Calumnies against First Principles of the Founding Fathers, One Monkey Won’t Stop No Show. Erosion of the Republic would continue, unabated.

“ I think they underestimated the ability of Americans to understand this point, ….”  
 
Ha ha Larry, I think you’ve OVERestimated the ability of Americans to understand the solid points you’ve made. I’ve been all over this matter for a while now, and you’re 100% correct with your understanding of what determines “natural born” status, and thus, Presidential eligibility.  
 
Contrary to the “modern” belief that the founders wanted a high bar for eligibility, they actually wanted to cast a rather broad net for natural born, or “native born” citizens (it’s important to point out that that people who make a distinction between “natural born” and “native born” are wrong, the two terms are used interchangeably in much of the legally binding verbiage, sometimes to the extent that they’re used in the same sentence as equivalents). People need to consider the perspective of the Founders at the TIME they wrote the Constitution, not from OUR current perspective. There was a revolutionary war that divided the Colonists practically right down the middle, and at the end of the war, it was imperative that that rift be healed as quickly as possible. During this country’s infancy, the Founding Fathers adopted an attitude of inclusiveness, not exclusiveness, they wanted as many people as possible to enjoy the hard earned principles of individual liberty and self determination that were the bedrock of their new philosophy of governance, and they wanted as many new citizens as possible to build on that philosophy. “Natural born” is a legal term of art that was used for hundreds of years in British common law, and it too was far more INCLUSIVE than EXCLUSIVE, the British, always wishing to extend their Empire and their jurisdiction over as much of the World as possible, WANTED as many of the people within their various colonies to be British citizens so that they would have jurisdiction over them. Since our Constitution was crafted by men (mostly lawyers) who were brought up with British common law, it is only reasonable that they would incorporate much of that common law into the legal document that would be the principle controlling law that would guide their new nation. In British common law, a child born to two foreigners on British soil, was considered a “natural born” subject of the British empire, “jus soli” (right of the soil) is the term, as opposed to “jus sanguiness”, (right of blood) which confers citizenship to children born ANYWHERE to at least ONE parent who was a citizen. Both jus soli AND jus sanguiness apply to US natural born citizenship as well, and all subsequent court rulings, even the SCOTUS, support this interpretation. It’s counterintuitive to us from our perspective, but the Founders actually seemed to focus more tightly upon who was NOT eligible for the Presidency, namely, anyone who was born outside this country to non-citizens, “NATURALIZED” citizens are not eligible…… poor Arnold.  
 
Birth certificate or not, Obama is eligible because of his mother’s citizenship alone, and although legally and technically, since Obama’s ‘claimed’ father was a British citizen, Obama was also a British citizen, but there is nothing in the Constitution that makes a “dual” citizen ineligible.  
 
Now, if the Founders had envisioned the possibility of a Barrack Obama, I’m sure they would have added to the Constitution the restriction “No America hating, class envious, lazy incompetent assholes are allowed to be the President”, then we would have had ample reason to disqualify him.

That’s the way it is. A natural born citizen is a citizen who was born only governed by the laws of one country. Meaning only one country can have a claim of that child. The Natural Born criteria is not a citizenship criteria, it is a loyalty criteria. The opposite concept to Natural Born is multiple citizenships at birth.

The constitution says Natural Born (loyalty) American Citizen (citizenship).

“Natural born means you have to only have US citizenship throughout your entire life.” 

Complete and utter bullshit MrX, there’s no legal or  accepted verbiage ANYWHERE that states this nonsense, this exist only in your rather limited mind.

>>> …riots of such magnitude that the Burn Baby Burn riots or the Rodney King riots faded into oblivion by comparison.

Ah, ain’t it The Way, these days?

“Gibs us what we wants or we burn this bitch down!”

I remember Reginald Denny, personally. 

John Armor Bingham – January 21, 1815 – March 19, 1900 – Principle framer of the 14th Amendment (which deals with citizenship in the United States)

John Bingham confirms the understanding and the construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

“I find no fault with the introductory clause[S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . .

- John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866 (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

See, it was well understood what natural born was. And if the parents could not owe allegiance to any foreign sovereignty, then it’s obvious that the child cannot either for their entire lives.

It’s such a silly point that no one has ever contensted it. You’re the only one on the planet that believes that someone with multiple allegiances can be natural born.

That is pretty much what I also beleive the truth to be, with a question mark on the location of the birth. I simply do not know and have heard good arguments to the many possibilities.

Or the grand-mother marched herself into the Department of Health office that day to declare a birth abroad, while the Hospital sent the twins documents a day or two later.

Ok guys question….Especially for those born in the 60s….

How many pictures does your family have of you hanging around the house, other relatives’s houses and the like???

My family has a ton of them, and I was born in 49…My mom was pretty poor but there seemed to be someone around to take pictures…Our house burned down and we lost a lot but there are still a ton….

So my question is this ….. How many pictures are out there of Obama???? You know the growing up pictures, those crazy cute pictures at parites and ???? His grandparents were supposively affluent enough to send him to private school, so I will make a bet they had a few cameras…  So were are all the pictures??????

Yes QUESTIONS QUESTIONS QUESTIONS
http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/research/gallery.php?id=27  Here are just a few from an album of Bush in his younger years…

I have a feeling that Obama could make a case that his parents cannot  give away his American citizenship….  
 
But the question remains…Why no mention of the name change and why no mention that he was once a citizen of Indonesia even if it was as a child….  
 
 
QUESTIONS QUESTIONS QUESTIONS —– That the media has not, will not look into….  
 
WHY WHY WHY

Larry, thanks for providing the Law on the matter.

But as I read it, it does say that if you voluntarily adopted a new citizenship, by free choice and with the intention to give up your US citizenship, you can loose your US citizenship.

Ann Durham, legal guardian of the child and therefore entitled to make all decisions for him, appplied voluntarily for the Indonesian citizenship of her child when she agreed to his adoption and she did it by free choice and it can be rightfully argued that she did it knowing full well that it was with the intention of giving up Obama’s US citizenship as at the time Indonesia did not recognized the principle of dual citizenship, conditions she found to be unacceptable for herself as she never did take the Indonesian citizenship as she could have by marriage. 

The fact that she voluntarily asked the State Department not to include Obama on her new American passport, on her application for passport renewal because he now had another citizenship and name, is also strongly indicative that she meant to renounce the US citizenship for her son. Otherwise she would have left him on her American passport as an American citizen.

I guess that Barry Soetoro had dual citizenship after the adoption and at age 18, he had to choose which citizenship he wanted. The Indonisian citizenship was an addition, and did not take away his other citizenship, even if he got an Indonesian passport.  Adults are not allowed to have U.S. and another citizenship, as far as I know, except Jewish people.  The U.S. doesn’t care with that one.

I think one of the questions that should be asked, is if Barry Soetoro travelled with his Indonesian passport after he he was 18 years old, such as when he went to Pakistan.  That’s important in figuring out if Barry renounced his Indonesian citizenship, and when.  That’s the only question that matters, really.

Why won’t anyone bring up the fact that one must be a natural born citizen in order to be POTUS – Which means born in the U.S. to
U.S. Citizen parents.  Obama’s father was never a U.S. Citizen.
When will this travesty end?

I was a kid in the 60′s and just about every picture has me in it.   My folks didn’t have a pot or a window, but pictures were a big deal when I was growing up.  Maybe uber liberal socialist types like Barry’ mama and grandparents didn’t believe in keeping a family record with pictures.

He never lost his US natural born citizenship status, candymarl, at least not while he was a minor. 

Natural born status is an act of nature, of God, if you will, even one’s own parents can’t legally change that status, the acts of the parents, in this regard, are subordinate to the act of God. Therefore, it doesn’t matter what Barry’s parents did, they could have declared him a citizen of Mars, it would have no relevancy or bearing upon Obama’s natural born status as recognized by US law.

Nevertheless, if upon becoming an adult, Obama went through the process of renouncing his US citizenship, THEN he would have officially and legally forfeited his natural born citizenship on his OWN volition. This would definitely disqualify him from the Presidency, but revoking one’s own citizenship is a detailed and heavily documented process, not an activity that could easily be concealed, so it’s highly doubtful he did this.

However, I do suspect that Obama gamed the college admission, and financial aid programs when he entered college by lying about his citizenship status, and THAT’S why he perpetuates his red hearing birth certificate controversy, because it sends the main thrust of the investigation into his past in a fruitless direction. He has demonstrated beyond much doubt that he’s a pathological liar, so, while the lies he tells us in his speeches and campaign rhetoric are not actionable, lying on legal forms is, and would be ample grounds for impeachment. THAT should be the trajectory that Trump’s investigation, but that type of technical mischief isn’t as sexy or salacious as the mystery and intrigue surrounding Obama’s bizarre birth issues, so Trump will likely not pursue that course. Trump is, after all, more concerned about publicity than he is about ferreting out any truth, he has simply seized upon a popular topic that will give him a maximum boost in his own personal ratings.

He never lost his US natural born citizenship status, candymarl, at least not while he was a minor.   
 
Natural born status is an act of nature, of God, if you will, even one’s own parents can’t legally change that status, the acts of the parents, in this regard, are subordinate to the act of God. Therefore, it doesn’t matter what Barry’s parents did, they could have declared him a citizen of Mars, it would have no relevancy or bearing upon Obama’s natural born status as recognized by US law.  
 
Nevertheless, if upon becoming an adult, Obama went through the process of renouncing his US citizenship, THEN he would have officially and legally forfeited his natural born citizenship on his OWN volition. This would definitely disqualify him from the Presidency, but revoking one’s own citizenship is a detailed and heavily documented process, not an activity that could easily be concealed, so it’s highly doubtful he did this.  
 
However, I do suspect that Obama gamed the college admission, and financial aid programs when he entered college by lying about his citizenship status, and THAT’S why he perpetuates his red herring birth certificate controversy, because it sends the main thrust of the investigation into his past in a fruitless direction. He has demonstrated beyond much doubt that he’s a pathological liar, so, while the lies he tells us in his speeches and campaign rhetoric are not actionable, lying on legal forms is, and would be ample grounds for impeachment. THAT should be the trajectory that Trump’s investigation, but that type of technical mischief isn’t as sexy or salacious as the mystery and intrigue surrounding Obama’s bizarre birth issues, so Trump will likely not pursue that course. Trump is, after all, more concerned about publicity than he is about ferreting out any truth, he has simply seized upon a popular topic that will give him a maximum boost in his own personal ratings.

So the question is, as it always has been, “what is a natural born citizen”?  Does it mean that both parents must be citizens in order to qualify as a natural born citizen?  Or is one sufficient?  I’ve seen lots of differing opinions on this.  When I was a little boy, my parents taught me that a person could not run for president unless both parents were US citizens, and that’s what I grew up believing.  Now I hear different things.  At this late stage of the game, we don’t even have a conclusive definition of “natural born citizen.”  Isn’t that rather ridiculous?  Shouldn’t the Supreme Court provide an opinion on this critical matter?

“I find no fault with the introductory clause[S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . . “

Do you understand legal language MrX? Obviously not! There’s NOTHING within this paragraph that EXCLUDES or DENIES “natural born” status upon children with different birth particulars. The phrase “…..every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States”  is NOT exclusionary, but it would have been if it read “…ONLY human beings born within the jurisdiction of the United States..”. Bingham could easily have been describing a subset of the ENTIRE set that includes ALL of the individuals who should be considered natural born. It has already been determined that Wong Kim Ark was a “natural born citizen” even though both of his parents were not US citizens, and they owed their allegiance to China. Jus soli, by itself, and according to accepted common law, was ruled adequate in that case to confer natural born status to Wong Kim Ark. WKA has not been overturned.

Just imagine the controversy you’d have created for your grandchild should he ever run for President.

armymom, you’re inadvertently lending credibility to the notion that Obama’s birth details in Hawaii are awkward and sketchy BECAUSE of simple human error and inattention to detail. You’ve just admitted that YOU contributed to an innocent clerical error yourself, and the papers unknowingly expanded on that error by putting it in print, so that it could easily be blown out of proportion by a conspiracy nut who wants to exploit a simple human error to imply the possibility of nefarious activities. 

Whoops.

Does this answer your question:  
 
“§ 1404. Persons born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867How Current is This?A person born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867, except a noncitizen Indian, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A noncitizen Indian born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867, and prior to June 2, 1924, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of June 2, 1924. An Indian born in Alaska on or after June 2, 1924, is a citizen of the United States at birth.”

Justine, you seem unfamiliar with my use of the word “rhubarb”. In my vernacular, a “rhubarb” is a short intense quarrel, usually on a baseball diamond.  

Does this answer your question:    
   
“§ 1404. Persons born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867. A person born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867, except a noncitizen Indian, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A noncitizen Indian born in Alaska on or after March 30, 1867, and prior to June 2, 1924, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of June 2, 1924. An Indian born in Alaska on or after June 2, 1924, is a citizen of the United States at birth.” 

Please understand that when someone is described as a “citizen at birth” in this section of US Code, it is the same as “natural born citizen”. “Natural-born” is an arcane and dated legal term of art, and it is not always used in modern definitions to describe someone who is born as a citizen with full eligibility for the Presidency. Only recently, with Obama’s birth controversy, has the term been contrived to mean something so narrowly restricting that it only serves the purposes of those who would wish to disqualify Obama for a fictitious technicality.

“A citizen of the United States at birth” = “A natural born US citizen” = “Native born citizen”; all three are just different terms to describe THE SAME THING!!!. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either ignorant or a liar.
 
Justine, you seem unfamiliar with my use of the word “rhubarb”. In my vernacular, a “rhubarb” is a short intense quarrel, usually on a baseball diamond.  

Onofre—excellent comment.

“Elaine”, I’ve ask you before to stop useing my screen name!!! Now you’re even useing the lower case “e”.  Get your own name!!!! You jerks just did this to Ellen & now to me again, knock it off.

Redo our entire constitution? Oh hell no, it’s worked fine for over 200 years. The problem is when our politicians do not follow it. Let’s “redo” our politicians and judges, our constitution is just fine. That’s what Obama and others want to do, remake our constitution. I’ll fight to my death against that.

(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.”"Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.”Until or unless the SCOTUS rules otherwise, this is the current definition of “natural-born citizen”.

You’re still proving my point.

“…includes provisions which are now obsolete.”

And, as I’ve stated below, verbiage such as “natural-born” is an arcane and dated legal term of art, and it has since been supplanted on many legal documents and in court rulings with a more direct and simple, “born as a US citizen”, or “a US citizen at birth”. This obsessive focus on the term “natural-born” is nothing but semantic folly, which is why the courts have unanimously rejected any challenges to Obama’s eligibility based upon his birth particulars.

Come to think about it, that Judy C has a style of writing much like the runt of the litter, jackie–stilted and bereft of meaning.

Armymom Think how much easier this could be in the 60s ….I will make a bet one could get their baby’s birth announcement in some of the big city papers really easy in the 50s and 60s…You know like NY, LA, Miami, Chicago and the list goes on…
Armymom I have already seen this done in a small town that I used to live in and the small town that I live in now..
Sometimes they print/printed where the baby was born and sometimes not. 
Sometimes they print a correction to clarify that the baby was not born in this town.
So currently many birth anouncements are going out in many newspapers of towns where the child was not born but had relatives in.

Let me put it this way: Bill O is stupid for considering something in print as gospel, you’ve cleverly proved the folly of that. On the other hand, by revealing the potential for inaccuracy of a newspaper article, you’ve shown that an inaccuracy can work BOTH ways. So, while Bill O shouldn’t use a news article as proof of his assertions, then the people who question Obama’s birth details can’t use news articles to support their side of the argument either. The ‘birthers’ who point to irregularities in the newspaper announcements could be in a tizzy over nothing but the type of inaccuracy that you’ve described. The birth announcements are therefore not dispositive………in either direction.

Not nice looking and all the more ugly for his lack of inner beauty.  Liars, deceivers, manipulators and traitors are not “good looking”.

Yes oowawa, it is an “interpretation”, but it is an interpretation that has been upheld many times in various court rulings. It seems that the entire argument breaks down at the outset because there has recently been an intentional effort to fabricate a NEW definition of “natural-born”, a definition that’s so ridiculously narrow that it couldn’t possibly have been the intent of the Founders. Again, the term “natural-born” is a dated and arcane legal term of art that was handed down through English common law. The term has simply been supplanted in court rulings with more modern language, i.e., “US citizen at birth”, or “born as a US citizen”, which is the verbiage used in the US code that I cited. The “interpretation” I quoted, while not actually part of the code, is meant to clarify the false distinction being made between “natural-born” and “citizen of the US at birth”. the two terms are legally considered to be equivalent, and that’s the point of the added statement.

Larry … don’t forget Obama’s CT Social Security Number controversy. And yes, Obama’s medical records submitted have all the gravitas of a doctor’s get outta gym note.

That’s a good set of definitions, OA, and the clarification adds meaning. Thanks for sharing them. Of course, the rub is in actually proving one meets those criteria and that is where I have heartburn. Anytime a requirement is put in place, it must have a means of enforcement or it is not, in any practical sense, a requirement at all.

Well, his mother did consider herself very avant guarde.  She might have had a home birth as the African women did and just as many did in the growing natural birth movement in the US at the time.  She wanted to be 3rd world.  The rebellious 60′s earth mama’s often didn’t want birth records of their kids…because of the draft and ongoing wars.  Many did relent later because they worked the system (Cloward/Piven) and needed SS# for benefits.  I knew several of these back in Big Sur.  He is living her dream not his absent father’s.  I don’t know or care at this point how or where he was born.  What’s clear from his actions is that he does not have America’s best interests at heart or in mind.

Well, his mother did consider herself very avant guarde.  She might have had a home birth as the African women did and just as many did in the growing natural birth movement in the US at the time.  She wanted to be 3rd world.  The rebellious 60′s Earth Mamas often didn’t want birth records of their kids…because of the draft and ongoing wars.  Many did relent later because they worked the system (Cloward/Piven) and needed SS# for benefits.  I knew several of these back in Big Sur.  He is living her dream not his absent father’s.  I don’t know or care at this point how or where he was born.  What’s clear from his actions is that he does not have America’s best interests at heart or in mind.

Agreed. I have no clue if the announcements were really printed in 61 or not. It’s just that as EVERYTHING related to Obama, there is a glitch. Numbers out of order, print of of alignment, file destroyed, lost, amended, and on and on. It screams (bad) scrub job.

FrenchNail,
is also strongly indicative that she meant to renounce the US citizenship for her son.
 
Although Larry answers you below here is information on:-
Renouncing U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children.

RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.
More here

Removing him from her passport IMO, was probably due to the fact he needed his own as he was due to return to Hawaii, to live with his grandmother!

I think this might be the answer.  The Dunhams were a shady
family. They lived in like 3 states before Washington and then Hawaii.
There is also all that creepy stuff about Davis, the sick (sexual) poem
Pop and Grandpa Stanley hanging out in the red light district
of Hawaii.

When it was learned that Stanley Ann was living in Washington
2 weeks after BO birth, 1st BO lied in his book.  Hawaii may not have
 been that liberal about bi-racial births as written by others.
Could have been a scandal at the bank etc….so they shipped
them off to Washington State.

OK Stanley Ann returns and marries Sotoro, adopts Barry…
I use to be a social worker and I would find that people
had drivers licenses in more than one state and even one
phony birth certificate..
It had nothing to do with Barry being Prez.  The Dunhams
wanted him in the private school needed a US BC.  So they just used
the original BC…Who would know!
.Also since Mother Dearest Stanley
was missing and SR. was also missing
the grandparents got an AFDC (Aid to Families with
dependent children) check for Barry.
School and welfare fraud….This is where BO learned
to lie so well…They just flipped the  BC and papers depending
on their needs.  Maybe the BC really said Roma as race.
AND if he gave a wrong name to run on the Dem. ticket.
Barry Sotoro did not appear on the ballot….

kinthenorthwest,

The question that keeps going around in my head is when will America recognize and acknowledge the rampant, oppressive, unjust and just plain wrong misogyny/sexism which continues to run unabated in every sector of society?  What’s make this ism so much more difficult to acknowledge than racism?

When the day comes when men and some women are willing to call it out and assign shame to those who engage in it (and for the sake of our country and the rest of the world, hopefully, sooner rather than latter), I can honestly say without equivication that I would never want it to be used as a tool to silence people from honest disagreement like racism has been used.  I would oppose such use of the word as a cheap (yet costly in the long run) way to silence people from open, honest debate.

The truly sad thing is that obama and his handlers and those determined to support him no matter what the facts are, have single-handedly made the word ”racism” and all the horrible things it represents in how one human treats another, to have far less meaning than it used to have when it should have become a moral battle cry, instead of a political tool, calling people to rise to the “better angels of our nature…” Lincoln

Maybe, women will be more careful in making certain the term “sexism” is used for the right reasons and for the right causes and actually does raise us up to be better people and will be the one’s who will lead the way to eradicating it AND racism forever from our collective minds and the way we live. 

If not now, when?

Thanks ~~JustMe~~, I’m getting tired of digging this stuff up.

Great points, and I totally agree.  I, too, was a teen during the civil rights movement and I was both an admirer of Dr. King and RFK.  It was a real blow when both of them were assasinated within 2 months of each other.  My gut feeling then was that our country was in deep, deep trouble and that’s when I began to lose my trust in the government.  However, I never dreamed it would come to this!  Ironically, they used a black man to unravel the last vestages of a government run and overseen by the people.

Oh, the irony!

Larry, you are all wrong on what natural born citizen means! It means born on American soil with TWO citizen parents. It doesn’t matter where Obama was born. He was born a British subject according to British law at the time since his alleged father was a British subject. His mother was too young to confer American citizenship to him. Go and look at the muslim laws on birth, etc. It doesn’t matter if he was born in HI or the Lincoln bedroom. He is no way a natural born citizen. The founding fathers read and went by the Frenchman Vatell’s book, Natural Law or Natures Law when writing Article11 section 1 Clause 5 of the constitution.
There is no proof that Obama ever legally changed his name to Barack Obama from Barry Soetoro. He lies so much that we Americans have no idea who this freak really is, anyway. He could have stolen someones’s identity.

If you want to really know the ins and outs of this issue read Dr. Kate’s blog, http://www.drkatesview.wordpress.com. She is an expert on the issue and has many, many great articles on the subject. You could also go to obamareleaseyourrecords and Mario Apuzzo’s blog. The Post and Email is another good source.You can obtain some true and honest information there. You should stop feeding false information to your readers.

Well lets hear them son of Flagher

Thank God  some one has it right.
I was adopted when I was 3 years old. My birth certifcate was sealed. Some states seal them some shred them.  My name changed at that time. After my adopted parents passed away. My natural mother and her husband adopted me again when I was 32 years old. That gave me a new birth cerifcate, the other birth cerifcate was shred. I now carry my third birth cerifcate. I know that the people that I have told this to can never understand it. I felt that is why Obama as never try to explain it.
People do not get it. I think that is why the other party keeps useing it.
There is 101 reasons to oppose him, but the birther issue is not one of them.   
   

I’m so glad that NoQuarter posted something regarding the “birther” issue.  It’s obvious from the article and comments here that people have been following, reading and researching this topic more than our MSM ever has.  Which leads me to wonder….how is the MSM getting off the “birther” subject by merely saying that if there was something to the whole “birther” issue, McCain or Clinton would have exposed it.  It wasn’t there jobs, that is the job of the 4th estate.  I have my opinions on why this wasn’t pursude further by the Clinton campaign but, as everyone knows, Hillary would not quit—long after her party deserted her.  WHY?  McCain–he was simply a wuss about even things that were well known.

Thanks to all the commentors here–you all never cease to impress.

I think he’s hiding that part of his life because he used his Indonesian citizenship to get free college.  He knows that alone would keep him out of the White House.

Most will agree, that honest,ethical people don’t need to conceal or seal their past records of whatever nature or kind. So, whoever this person may be or claims to be, who has occupied our Whitehouse since January,2009, has an ethical duty to disclose his true identity to the American citizens, by making his sealed or concealed records available to the public.

Barry Soetoro was proved to be a fictitious character made up as an April Fools Day prank. It’s very easy to FactCheck it.

He appears to be of Indonesian descent that means both parents were Indonesian. Lolo Soetoro may have been his natural father. He clearly does not have a white mother and black father as has been suggested. Ann Dunham would have been his step mother. Unless he has a twin, his double is Indonesian also from Indonesian parents.

All of you know next to nothing about indonesia and their xenophobia. Prior to early 2000 before Gus Dur’s shortlived presidency, all citizens should have indonesian sounding names. im too lazy …. here are some phrases you can piece together yourself: anti western sentiment during soekarno’s reign, preferably muslim and non chinese – chinese converts to muslim and become rich by being affiliated to soeharto, some chinese renouncing their ancestry during soeharto era (aburizal bakrie, bob hassan), bribe for convenience – include having indonesia sounding names and islam as religion (one of my uncle has islam as religion when renewing citizen id card in 98), i have two birth certificates so i can skip 2 years of primary school (84 and 85) lost the original one coz i rarely use it and re-issue back (with bribe ofc) to 85 because renew passport in 2012 need scan of original for record keeping, my family display muslim inscriptions in front of our house in 98 so they dont get burnt down. bottom line: with a little money, you can bribe to alter official documents for convenience. if you’re not indigenous (esp westerner and chinese), officials will squeeze you for bribes or make life really difficult for you. remnants of proof today could be seen chinese descendant have to pay more to make birth certificate. my extended family are chinese buddhist but my generation is mostly catholic/christian.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

He is a US citizen. Get over the lies you have been fed plz.

Indonesia does not permit duel citizenship. Barry Soetoro’s biological father was a British citizen at the time of his birth, and under British law, Barry was born a British citizen. If my understanding is correct, Barry choose to became an Indonesian citizen to get a free ride to college. He would then have had to had to become a naturalized citizen of the US, in order to be a US citizen, which would make him ineligible for President. I don’t believe that he could have been born both a British citizen and and a US citizen, but I could be wrong. Since he would have had to renounce his US citizenship to become an Indonesian citizen to get his free college ride, he would have had to have become a naturalized citizen to become a citizen of the US again, even if he was a US citizen at birth, and that would make him ineligible to be President. The facts in this instance truly deserve a thorough examination and a US Supreme Court ruling. That would settle it… unless the Robert’s court issued another perverted ruling like the Citizens United ruling. Some Supreme Court justices ought be impeached for that one.

The big question: Is Obama lawfully qualified to be President?
https://plus.google.com/u/1/113127374166684973080/posts/UkLDwpadexW

I’m not sure why this is more relevant than ever but do find some of the comments amusing and telling of the stubborn ignorance of some people.

Man, this is the ‘snake that would not die’ you beat it with a stick and it still just slithers away. Thanks for, once again, being clear on this LJ.
But here’s my point:

It doesn’t matter now whether BO was born in Honolulu, Djakarta, or Timbuktu… it’s moot. He was elected President and then he did things and didn’t do other things – ya can’t get that stuff back. Can’t we please just let this dry up and blow away?
There’s a lot out there to be concerned with and wasting our time on this nonsense is just a distraction for real problems. We really need to just “Move on folks, nothin’ to see here.”

Don’t forget the big one…any child adopted by a citizen of Indonesia must be raised Muslim, and educated as such. It’s the law in Indonesia. He may not be a practicing Muslim now, but he was as a child and technically is apostate according to sharia law. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!! Just makes me giggle delightedly, frankly.

Larry, please put up another thread. I am tired of running away from Barry Sotero running away Barack Obama. Thank you.

I also left the Democratic party since Obama came to power. I am currently reading, “Obama’s America, Unmaking the American Dream…read it!

This is why the founding fathers made the electoral college.

I came here for some entertainment and I got it. You commenters on here are some of the dumbest people that inhabit this country. I can’t wait to vote for Barry.

Very interesting article. It clears some things up, but it’s funny the Democrats and their adoroing media try to paint Mitt Romney as some ‘freak’, with a loony childhood–when Mitt is as solid as they come.
It’s BARRY who has had a fu’d up childhood…complex, secretive, bizarre……….is just tip of the iceberg. His mom was a progressive; socialist……..birth father a Marxist

Let us assume he is an American citizen. So what? He is not “naturallly born” of two US citizens. BTW, I am not “naturally born” as my Mother was a Bahamian. I don’t care if he born on the steps of the White House, he is not a naturally born citizen.

Obama is a FRAUD! He wants America to be socialized, reduced in size ( meaning he wants to redistribute America thru out the world. Possibly selling off US intel, whatever to whomever & Countries such as China, Russia, Middle East, etc.). Secret Service is part of cover up! Obama camp boosted they took in $181,000 last month thru mostly credit cards from around world. Coincidence that he knows Robert Roche, who as companies in China & talked about funneling $$ thru his Co’s to Obama’s campaign fund?! Obama has pissed off many people, world leaders, US Citizens, our Troops, many African Americans, Hispanic community, etc. Of course Obama s rich! But did you know, since Obama has even in WH, they have taken ver 40 vacations on TAXPAYER $$!!!! That is over 10 vacations per year, NICE! And don’t forget the entourage that costs us as well wherever he goes!!!! Let e know if you can add to this! Hopefully Obama will be gone outf WH soon!!!!!!

I just want to make it clear that my step son and wife hated me to-wards the end of our marriage, because I actually started liking America, Capitalism and the ways of the West. She saw it as giving prudence to Colonialism and because she was anti-American, Anti-Colonialism, there was a direct contradiction in our relationship. The problem was though, as an Indonesian I started making good money with these American Western firms that I worked for. And you know money talks and BS walks, it did then as much as it does now. Any way we sent Barry back to America with his commie grandparents so that he wouldn’t be influenced by my America loving ways., his mother was adamant that Barry be raised up in an environment that was not pro-American. She saw his father Barrack Sr. in him, and wanted Barry to continue barracks work. Unfortunately Barrack was an alcoholic and a womanizer and his life ended tragically with the loss of his legs in a car accident and alcholism. Well I could have wrote a book about all this, had I known Barry was going to occupy the White house someday. But then again was just happy to have a little money in my pocket and a white girl from America in my bed. Barry sure did enjoy his Choom gang in Hawaii though.

Did he use the Indonesian time as a way to get foreign aid to Columbia ?

I agree with Diana. I have seen the above information back in December of 2007. The question here is why would they lie about BHO’s place of birth. Very Simple – showing BHO as a citizen would make things easier and would make it easier for his mother to return from Indonesia also. Therefore BHO’s mother understood the value of a USA Citizenship. It may have been at the education from her mother. BHO’s grandmother, from many accounts, was a clerk in Probate Court. His grandmother may also have experienced the in-convince of not being able to work with out a birth certificate or witnessed that from another family member. Now for FAI Congress passed a law in 1902 for the requirement of birth certificates for censuses. But as time went on by 1940′s one could not go to school or get a job or keep a job unless they could prove that they were born here. From 1940 to 1964 when BHO was born the laws had not changed. So I am very sure that BHO grandmother made sure her daughter registered the birth of BHO in Hawaii. By doing so now gave the appearance of BHO being born in Hawaii. So if all parties stick to the same story who will know the truth. Now that BHO’s mother and maternal grandmother have passed on. Who will be the wiser? One exception, the paternal grandmother is alive and says that BHO was born in Kenya. Image that!

Im English and have just read the article above along with quite a few comments,

I believe that the people of the USA have a right to know the full background of the person put forward for them to elect no matter what the circumstances may be.
To question the credentials presented is only right and proper and any one elected to the office of president should be open to any questions regardless of creed or colour.

His ineligibility comes from the fact that only his mother was a US citizen….his birth father was Kenyan,stepfather Indonesian

So all we know is his parents lied and he lied so all he has done is lied and falseified records and he is still doing it

This is all quite thoroughly debunked. Obama was never known as Barry Soetoro. I’m not a huge Obama fan myself, but Jesus, some of this stuff is pathetically under-researched.