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Wide Open Thread!

By Bronwyn's Harbor on November 5, 2008 at 12:30 PM in Open Thread

Okay, I just have to share how thrilled I am that Prop 2 in California passed. Even Fox News’s Beltway Boys were in favor of this measure. They said, “Even if these are animals who will be consumed by humans, they deserve humane treatment during their lives.”

HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) — one of the true “work horses” for animals that uses donation money very wisely — wrote this:

Thanks to you, we made history for animals tonight.
Prop 2 has passed in California.

I’m sure that Newt Gingrich is thrilled too since he cares so deeply about animal welfare. Wayne Pacelle, who has worked for HSUS as long as I can remember, writes:

Thanks to you, 20 million animals in California will soon be spared the worst abuses of factory farms. And I’m confident that we’ll look back at Prop 2 as a pivotal moment in how our nation treats animals who are raised for food.

Early returns tonight show that more than 60% of Californians voted for Prop 2. This is a tremendous victory for animals, for The Humane Society of the United States…and for you. We were able to reach millions of California voters with our message of compassion only because you stood with us — by taking action, by donating to the campaign, and by telling those you knew in California about Prop 2 and what it would do for animals and for citizens there.

This was a momentous election for the nation. I’m so grateful and honored for everything you did to make Prop 2 a big part of the story. Please read my blog over the coming days for my take on Prop 2 and what it means for animal protection.

P.S. Don’t get me wrong. I love Sarah Palin to pieces, and was so very proud to support her. But it was deeply painful to get videos from Defenders of Wildlife — another group that wisely spends donations and who even CENTRIST, PRO-MILITARY members of Congress support (I know this personally but will not explain) — that showed Alaskan officials shooting wolves from helicopters, then landing the helicopter and shooting the surviving wolf pups, one by one, in the head.

Sarah, there are plenty of MOOSE in Alaska for both you and the wolves. Besides, Sarah, you can go to the grocery store to buy a side of beef. The wolves cannot.

Wolves mate for life, and care for their entire family. They are 100% necessary predators to create a “balance” in nature. In our national parks, they would help keep down the populations of mountain goats who destroy and consume far too much of our endangered plant life. Wolf populations — and bear and cougar populations — should be encouraged! We people, most of us, have options for how we get our food. (Some indigenous peoples, such as the Inuits, need to hunt for food although even they now get so much government money that they’ve built lavish lodges where their wealthy guests order bacon and eggs in the coffee shop. No whale meat is on those menus.)

Enough.

YOUR TURN! And you can ignore my remarks above. Or complain about them. Or mock them. Or praise them. I don’t care. I said what I had to say.

Bless Sarah Palin. I wish I could hug Piper Palin because I just know that that little girl is heart-broken today — she loved those rallies so much, she said. When asked, she said that when her mom became Vice President, her mom would keep holding rallies. She’s just eight years old. These will be tough days, but that is a strong family. They’ll be alright in no time.

Bless John McCain and his remarkable family. I already spoke about his dignified, kindly, special speech last night. He would have been such a fine president. If only …

::::::::::::::

P.S. I let the trolls yap last night. I wanted the WORLD to see how crude, crass, and cruel the Obamabots are, even in victory. But that’s over now … and I’ll be spending (wasting) a lot of time today policing them so they don’t SPOIL YOUR SAFETY NET HERE.

NoQuarterUSA.net is YOUR harbor, and we don’t let armed enemy ships invade YOUR HARBOR!

  • fluffy bunny

    Thank you for the post. And thank you for spending your day troll-busting :-) .

  • scorbs

    Thanks BH for guarding the doors; i couldn’t believe the gloating yesterday. I thought obamabots are bipartisan and “post-political,” and they were jerks as usual.

    Am thrilled with prop passing, too! There are definitely things to celebrate.

    • oowawa

      Yes. The passage of Prop 2 was the only really bright spot for me yesterday. I feel we need to be kind to the helpless animals during their brief lives and do what we can to minimize their suffering. I know about the arguments about higher meat prices, etc., but somewhere we have to draw the line on how much suffering we are willing to tolerate in the name of economy. I suspect this topic will divide No Quarter residents, as will the pro-life pro-choice controversy, but I think we will all be capable of civil disagreement and mutual respect. These are delicate moral issues and should be treated as such.

      • tek

        What exactly is Prop. 2? If people understood the risks to their own health of mistreating animals in corporate farm conditions, they would all embrace humane practices. Bad corporate husbandry brought us Mad Cow Disease and other very dangerous diseases. If all farmers practiced natural methods, then organic, natural food wouldn’t be more expensive.

        • oowawa

          “Proposition 2 is a moderate measure that stops cruel and inhumane treatment of animals–ending the practice of cramming farm animals into cages so small the animals can’t even turn around or stretch their limbs.”

  • Firefly

    Hooray for Prop. 2 in California – I, of course, voted for it.

    And yes, I bless and thank Mac and Sarah – it is truly our nation’s loss, as I’m afraid will be so painfully discovered in the days and years ahead.

    But, the beat goes on…

    • Sally

      I wanted to also but didn’t bcs I realized that all animals will be directed to Mexico….where they get treated worse that ever and we have NO SAY in the matter. Prices will go up and quality will go down.

      Too bad it was written so badly…I’m sure that was on purpose though.

      I love Palin too….I think she is my new female hero after Ayaan Hirsi Ali (another non-woman woman but also non-black black).

  • Sally

    We must start organizing and rallying behind a well constructed/managed BOYCOTTING and PETITION site.

    This, I am sure, would work VERY WELL….against the media, hollywood, and certain information technology corps…as well as other corporations, as needed.

    ANY THOUGHTS MR. JOHNSON AND OTHERS? Perhaps here would be a great place to do it? I would even pay a monthly fee for it.

    PS: I just cancelled my 15 year subscription to the only real newspaper America had left…the WALL STREET JOURNAL….I am very sad but its content was becoming dumber and its articles started being infiltrated with nothing but useless opinion (as opposed to referenced fact). I have been reading it daily for so long….I’ll guess this forces me to focus on new things now. My husband too. Sad day!

    • Sally

      I know…..we’ll focus on the VETS! Yeh….they need our help now more than ever-especially since they have NO REPRESENTATION AT ALL!

  • jangles

    I tuned in this am to get the bad news because I expected it and I knew there was no way I could live through it. Really sad. It is the worst case scenario. Not only for That One to win but for him to win so triumphantly.

    This is no triumph for the vision of MLK. It is anything but. It is a travesty of liberal Democratic principles.

    We have to confront a very harsh reality. We were on the right but losing side of a bitter battle. Winners write the history so whatever leverage we may have dreamed for ourselves is obliterated. We have to think about how to come back and I can not see the way right now. We are not likely to be welcome in the Dem party anytime soon nor is our advice on leadership of the party or its processes likely to be sought. We need to study the election results and see what future promise there is for building a new and winning coalition. This election was perhaps ultimately a giant smack down of the Bush years fueled by the economic meltdown that may or may not have been engineered by Soros and company.

    DJIA down 200 @ 12:40 EST today.

    • Ellen D

      As an old-timer, the respone to this election looked liked Jimmy Carter’s and (I hope) we all know how that turned out.

  • Jackarooty

    Yes, I’m proud to say that after appearing on the ballot for the second time in Massachusetts GREYHOUND RACING HAS BEEN BANNED FINALLY! It should take effect by 2010.

    Voters yesterday overwhelmingly approved a ballot initiative to decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana, making getting caught with less than an ounce of pot punishable by a civil fine of $100. The change in the law means someone found carrying dozens of joints will no longer be reported to the state’s criminal history board.

    I thought John McCain’s concession speech was one of the most gracious and heartfelt speeches that I have ever heard. We should have seen more of this JM.

  • lark

    NoQuarterUSA.net is YOUR harbor, and we don’t let armed enemy ships invade YOUR HARBOR!

    I think that is a good idea, whatever that means. Because mocking the other, which was Obama’s favorite tactic to demoralize and alter the conscience of listeners have a twisting effect of the audience. Ask Stewart and Colbert and Tina Fay.

  • eriezindian

    Thank you for the troll busting. I am glad this site will be a haven for those of us not in agreement with the wild celebrating. Also in agreement on the Prop 2 and thank John McCain and Sarah Palin for their effort to lead the country in a more inclusive way.

  • fluffy bunny

    My parents and I were just talking about how odd CA is … the prop to protect animals passed, but the prop to amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage also passed?

    • A

      Yes, apparently in California we care more about animal rights then we do about human rights. Monday I had rights, yesterday they were voted away.

      • Scout

        I hold Obama and the DNC responsible for this. Obama was the only candidate who, when stating his opposition to gay marriage, said marriage is between a man and a woman because “that’s when God is in the mix.” He was the only candidate who framed the issue like that, insinuating that gay and lesbian marriages are unholy and devoid of God’s presence. It was a direct call to his very conservative AA base, and they answered.

        Furthermore, the DNC pledged 500K, and under Obama’s control, only gave 25K or 5% of their pledge to “no on 8″.

        Make no mistake: We were sold down the river. As a lesbian adoptive parent, I am shaking. Marriage today, adoption tomorrow??

    • CJ

      I had the same conversation about animal rights and human rights. I am really shocked that Prop 8 to ban gay marriages passed. But should I be surprised that Californians overwhelmingly voted for Obama, the Democrat, but out of the kindness of their hearts failed to allow gay marriages. That seems somewhat hypocritical to me, but then this is the new Democratic Party.

  • hadenough

    FL was called for obama. About 19,000 votes out of about 8 million total separate the two candidates.

    AZ was ‘too close to call’ most of the night. Final: 54% mccain, 45% obama.

    • Zee

      They do that all the time…I watched them do that in 2004 with NH and other states. They skew the results to fit their narratives.

      Or, as Emily Dickinson put it :

      Tell all the truth, but tell it slant
      Success in circuit lies—

  • hadenough

    About half of obama’s popular vote advantage came from just two states: NY and CA.

    • KathyNeocon

      What a surprise. My guess is another third are dead people, illegals, duplicates etc.

  • POdVet

    As an example of just how deluded and brain dead the Obama masses were last night…2 uniquely unbelievable results slightly lower on the ticket.

    Rep. John P. Murtha, D-Pa., who called his district south of Pittsburgh “racists, and rednecks” won easy re-election.

    In Louisiana, indicted Democratic Rep. William (cold cash)Jefferson was cruising to victory in a Democratic primary.

    • Zaggs

      Because unfortunately both parties have really, really stupid people. Republicans have snobs that because some of the GOP decided to go spending like drunken sailors who just won the lotto these snobs decided not to support other GOP candidates like say John McCain. Or they let pettiness get in the way of the common good. I don’t care if Bush and McCain don’t get along, Bush’s big pocket people needed to realize McCain was the only hope once BO cheated to the dem ticket…instead they kept their money and McCain lost pivotal states by less then 5% where some 527 ads would have helped.
      Democrats on the other hand have those that are just blind to anything democrats do except for the D in front of their name. So long as the “evil racist” republicans are kept at bay those with the D can steal and corrupt as much as they want to these automatons.
      I fear for my party (GOP) because no I see dumbasses saying stupid things like “America really wants a true conservative”….um wake the hell up! No they don’t! You cannot wait for these uber conservatives to come along till you release your full support. Too many people said they would “Hold their nose” and vote McCain, mainly because of immigration (alot of good that did him, thanks you ungrateful bastards!). Sorry but instead of bitching about McCain’s immigration why don’t you try to get on his side and have a voice at the table and structure immigration reform WITH him. Yes most people want illegals who commit crimes gone and most would also agree to let the ones just sucking up welfare also be kicked out. But most would also want to give a chance to those illegals who do nothing but work their asses off a chance to continues their lives in America (after all isn’t that the point of our country?). But now they get BO deciding on immigration, bravo.

  • benny

    after the fall of hillary and palin, I sincerely doubt any woman will be allowed to be pres or vice-pres. Is sexism in americas collective genes or something? women are atleast 50% of our population. but the MSM, general citizens somehow look at it as a joke for a woman to run for office. both the dems (clinton) and repubs (palin) tried, but the MSM made fun of them and influenced the general publics perception. This is sad for america. even the europeans and asians have no problem electing women as head of state. for such a modern powerful country, this anti-woman stance is pathetic. all this talk about equality is exactly that – talk.

    • athena

      Ummm- woman make up over 50% of the population and apparently WE ARE our own worst enemy!

      • Peggy Sue

        Very much our own worst enemy. Much of the savaging of Hillary and Sarah was done by women themselves. And we will all suffer for that.

        • Vicki

          More savaging of Sarah Palin today from moles in the McCain camp (Romney-bots?) to discourage her from running in 2012:

          http://redgirlrising.blogdns.net/romney-moles/

          Sarah is the real deal! Don’t let Romney’s minions take her down.

          Thank all of you for the fellowship and camaraderie for the past two months. I love you all!

      • irish1139

        You betcha! Women are their own worst enemy.

      • lark

        I do not understand what happened. Well, we’ll see if Obama remains married through his first term.

        • Alex

          MecHELLe isn’t going to give up her First Lady title until it’s wrestled from her.

  • tillthen

    At least California did one thing right.

    I received notice of this via the Environmental Defense Fund. FYI: http://www.edf.org/home.cfm

    I am trying so hard to become a vegetarian. At this point I have limited my meat intake to fowl only, 3 to 5 days/week, seafood whenever. Haven’t had red meat for almost 2 years. Discovering Thai and other Asian cuisines has helped tremendously. Coconut milk and curry, along with vegetable broth, open many doors for meatless cooking. I’m getting there. My goal is vegetarian plus seafood only. Asian markets are the best and most economical!! American chains are rip-offs for Asian ingredients. FYI

  • Mandelay

    If anyone needs to “sound off,” go to http://www.hillaryclinton.com. She has a front page asking us to add our congratulations to Obama and Biden. Unbelievable.

    • tillthen

      Pardon my French, but Fuck Her.

      • SeeNoEvil

        Career Before Country.

        Gimme all your money.

      • lark

        Her book on her candidacy will come out soon. She’ll have some interesting script on the meeting between Obama and Bill in Harlem after her defeat.

    • Peggy Sue

      As I said, our own worst enemy! Even the abused and insulted come back for more.

      Incredible.

    • KathyNeocon

      P-U-K-E.

  • tek

    Bronwyn: I agree with you totally on the wolves. I love wolves (from a distance) and was troubled with Palin’s slaughter of them. I dislike Barky so much I was willing to overlook it (and I have no confidence that Barack Obama has any devotion to protecting endangered species). Predators are important to the biosphere and people must learn to live with them. They don’t hunt humans for prey unless they get their natural instincts messed up. (Just say no to wolf dogs and coydogs).

    • hadenough

      I love wolves (from a distance) and was troubled with Palin’s slaughter of them.

      It had been going on for more than ten years. Hint: Palin has not been gov of AK for ten years.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ NoQuarter

      yes. Barky could care less about wildlife or our national parks or ecology or the environment.

      Or energy policy. He who voted FOR Dick Cheney’s Energy Act of 2005. While John McCain and Hillary Clinton both voted against it, rightly.

  • kgirl1028

    I’m listening to rush right now, and i must say this election is probably going to turn me very conseravtive. I’m still pro choice, and support Gay Rights (all due to morals taught to me by my very Sarah Palin esq mother). but i’m beginning to see Rush is right, while i will always believe in helping others, the fact of the matter is that when you help people too much, they don’t become grateful they act in titled. McCain has always done right by a multitude of different, and they don’t appreciate that because they feel they should have gotten it anyway. this is why they choose people with no real values but with charm can woo them into voting for their against their best interest, because they know all of their needs are met. Heck even at work you can tell when someone sick feels better when they are sick they will take anything you give them, when they complain its time to send them home. From now on, unless it involves children or the elderly I refuses to support anymore social programs. John McCain voted for MLK day even though he didn’t believe it because he did not want his state punished for it. And look how he was treated. obama does nothing for anyone, held as king. Palin sells her private jet and even though it was at a loss, she saved them probably millions maintance bills and jet fuel. Obama gets michelle a 100,000 dollar raise. palin choosed to ride on a commerical flight instead even when she was pregnant. I’m done, you screw up, you go splat. and if i could afford it I would buy her a new jet. why inconvience yourself and then be disrespect for it.

    • tek

      Rush Limbaugh should have preached this message to the Republicans who were handing out our tax dollars to mega corporations so the corporate wealthy could become more wealthy. That’s the reason Barack Obama is in office today.

    • Zaggs

      What pissed me off along these lines were hispanics supporting Obama over McCain. I mean WTF! Obama has done more for them then McCain? Not even close!

      • hadenough

        Multi-millionaire obama gave a chance at a lucrative law practice to spend his time running for office. Other than making loads of dough and running for office nobody has been able to point to any concrete thing obama has done for anyone but himself.

      • ritamary

        Obama has never done anything for anyone except himself. Just by simply examining his record, that is obvious. But any type of research is apparently too difficult for millions of Obots.

    • Sally

      Welcome to the club…..Now read “Liberal Fascism” by Goldberg before its banned!!! You will be in a an Alice in WOlderland state for over a year….time it takes to deprogram yourself thoroughly and get your jaw attached to your maxilla again!

      I’m sorry to repeat myself like a broken record….but it is of that great importance to all of you and your country.

      • athena

        Reading it and she is right. Have your older children read it as well….

    • lark

      A few minutes ago Fox had an interview with a black mayor. The Mayor was quoted as saying yesterday, “today we all drank from the same fountain.” So then he explained he was in the army in 1945 when blacks and whites were treated differently. Then we went to say that “America still a racist country.” Paraphrasing: ‘Not as racists as it was a few days ago, but we needed to be honest about that.’

      So we drank from the same fountain but we are still racist. I guess we need to elect blacks presidents for the next 40 years now.

  • Dot

    Larry I hope that we will still look into Obama and his undisclosed records. He was not vetted and before he is sworn into office let’s get his background checked out. GOD BLESS THIS COUNTRY. Thanks to all the people who voted against him, too bad we didn’t have the group that won in California for the marriage and animal bans. They sure did something right.

  • Sally

    I can’t wait for the day when Obama “finds” Islam again….and 95 % of blacks convert with him!

    Funny….Blacks don’t blame Islam (since its inception) for causing their capture/enslavement/sale throughout the world or for their genocide (even today it continues)….with of course the help of their treacherous Black tribal leaders (ie their “BROTHERS”).

  • SFIndiePUMA

    Sometimes, we in CA do the right thing (not always, seeing as Prop 8 passed – as a native Californian, I blame that on the transplants).

    Thanks, NQ, for giving us all a safe harbor. Seems so many of the other sites are caught up in the “history” of the moment. The only history I see being made is that a presidency can be bought with illegal donations, voter fraud, racist attacks, sexism and misogyny, corruption, lies, and secrecy by a non-white male as much as a white male. That’s history I can do without.

    Now that I won’t be spending hours on the internet checking all the NObama sites, I can start my spanish lessons again, for when I retire to Mexico, seeing as how that’s the only place I’ll be able to afford to live.

    But I’ll always hang out at NQ to see what’s up. I still have a tiny thread of hope that someone will dig up Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate, or Rezko will implicate him in his illegal machinations, or SOMEthing. It’s a very tiny thread of hope.

    Thanks, NQ, for all you’ve done. You are all much appreciated.

  • Lisa_NY

    As I posted before being a moderate gets you nowhere.
    The Conservative movement was not backing McCain. It wasn’t because of Palin.
    This election could have been won by a Republican who wasn’t afraid of the press, who wasn’t afraid to tell Americans the truth about Obama and his radical past.
    You play nice with liberals and it gets you nowhere.
    The Conservative movement will rally and I will be part of it.

    • KathyNeocon

      Right on Lisa-NY. You don’t play footsie with snakes, like Hillary has been doing. Palin is what kept McCain in it up to the finish line.

      BTW I’m in LA so I feel your pain. I’m wearing black today for mourning–LOL.

  • AF catfish

    Is Obama strong-arming Rahm Emmanuel into the Chief of Staff job by leaking the job offer to the press?

    If Emmanuel takes the job, that means Jesse Jackson, Jr. gets Obama’s senate seat.

    • tek

      You’re talking crazy, don’t know anything about IL politics. Rahm Emanuel is wetting himself, he’s so happy to be chief of staff. He’s just a two-bit Chicago twerp who was lucky to get a seat in Congress. That Jesse Jackson, Jr. would take Obama’s seat was a done deal.

      • hadenough

        The “well educated” “creative” class hate Emanuel. They hate him with a passion. A Rahm pick will be one more kick in the teeth to the oborg.

      • AF catfish

        I’d rather have Emmanuel, who supported Hillary till she dropped out, in the Senate than Jesse Jackson Jr.

        I think Emmanuel has more power in the Senate. I hope he doesn’t take O’s chief of staff job.

      • AF catfish

        Sorry you’re obviously a Repub or something. Emmanuel, unlike Obama, has actually accomplished a few things. Emmanuel actually enjoys hard work. He may be a partisan, but unlike Obama, Emmanuel has his own ideas, a well-formed ideology and is not just an American Idol who gives different answers to different audiences.

        This is all about maintaining one black Senator. Frick, Willie Brown was never this racial as mayor. God I am glad Obama made history but I’m starting to hate him already. And I always fought for the rights of people of color.

        • tillthen

          AF, you will have plenty of company by this time next year in the ‘regrets’ department.

          • AF catfish

            Corey Booker would have made the perfect first black president. He does not have all this racial resentment like Obama does, who hates his own white half and wants to purge it from himself.

            • tillthen

              Well said. You’ve spotted one of the many things the MSM hasn’t, his deep resentment. Although, I don’t think I could go for Booker’s tax-and-spend penchant. He has recently hit the poor residents of Newark with a biggie and raised the numbers of the city work force. I’m from Essex County. Not good. Still Booker would have been a better bet for America, by far…by far, than the Fraud, Obama.

  • Artemis

    I feel like the Chinese curse — “May you live in interesting times” applies to Americans today.

  • Blueray98

    Does anyone know what happened to Jerome Corsi and the documents he obtained from Kenya? This whole thing seems to have been mysteriously silenced during the weekend of (I think) October 11-12. Corsi spoke with Shawn Hannity October 7 in a telephone conversation that was aired on his radio show. Hannity said he was looking forward to seeing him soon, and Corsi was going to provide him with copies of the documents, but it never happened. Apparently Corsi became very ill after he returned to the US, then the whole subject was dropped.

    Why? Were the documents bogus, or did someone intervene to stop this from getting out?

    • AF catfish

      My guess: some thugs personally visited Corsi and intimidated him into silence. Said they’d hurt his family if he went public with the Odinga story.

    • WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName

      Yes, I’d sure like to know what happened.

      The majority of Americans, now that Obama has been elected, will have little stomach for hearing anything negative about The One.

      • OhioMary

        Here is a youtube where Richardson called Obama and immigrant. Do you think he knows what we all are guessing and want to have proven? Or is he just putting his foot in his mouth again?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5OUdj_YIpo

  • benny

    Obamas change mantra has got the dow jones slipping into the negative. yeah right, hes helping the economy allright.

    when its about economy, the market is the best judge. lets see how hope and change tries to transform the economy. the markets know that its a sham.

    • rw

      I’ve been following the articles on Bloomberg, in view of yesterday’s election results (real or manufactured) two (so far) headlines stand out:

      earlier posted: Obama May Expand U.S. Defense Spending Further, Lifting Lockheed, Northrop

      Obama Health-Care Plan May Falter as Credit-Crisis Spending Crimps Budget

      But never mind, we’ll be fed “historic” for the next four years are nothing changes, really.

  • rw

    Animal rights, the next front in the progress of western civ.

    • SeeNoEvil

      Be nice to animals.

      Be shitty to women.

  • IronMan

    Interesting.

    HOW TO DENY THE OBAMA ELECTORS

    There are two ways to deny Obama Electors.

    1) There are a number of states Obama won yesterday with Republican governors. FLORIDA is one such state.

    Let the Governor, with whoever runs his Secretariat of State, refuse to allow the Obama Electors to convene and vote unless and until Obama proves his constitutional aligibility.

    2) The District of Columbia just elected 3 Obama Electors. The President himself is the chief presiding officer over the District.

    Let the President and his Attorney General disallow the Obama Electors unless and until Obama proves his citizenship.

    Furthermore, may these people also use Federal subpoena powers to uncover documents pertaining not only to Obama’s birth but also to his possible Indonesian citizenship. Let’s have a look at Obama’s Harvard entrance application and see if he didn’t claim Indonesian citizenship when he applied.

    Let’s go into the bowels of the State Department to see if and when Obama was ever issued a US passport.

    I thought that, in the end, Republicans are patriots who love the Constitution. Will they then not take action when the Constitution itself is at stake?

    For if they do not, then why have a Constitution at all?

    If we will not insure that the Constitution’s requirements of presidential eligibility are met, then of what importance is the Bill of Rights?

    And what happens if and when a foreign power gets wind that Obama is not constitutionally eligible to serve and blackmails him?

    Or, what happens when a general — who also took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution when he joined the US Armed Forces — what happens when a general REFUSES an Obama order because Obama is not a lawfully valid Commander-in-Chief? The resulting clash could lead to a coup d’etat.

    We all know the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes. The emperor was really naked but nobody wanted to admit it — until one single, small boy cried out, “The Emperor has no clothes!” Then the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

    All it will take is ONE challenge, and the whole Obama house of cards collapses

    • tillthen

      Hey, I just saw your suggestion on the eligibility ploy via the Governors.

      Great idea. I hope its workable I’m sure if it is, Larry will jump all over it, and BERG!!

    • lark

      That sounds reasonable. I for one voted in Florida and would like my Governor to represent my interests.

  • tillthen

    I have not watched any TV news channels since yesterday afternoon. I took a peek at NQ to find out the bad news and moved on. I’m delighted to see this open thread to include animal rights. Also, Larry’s reassurance that NQ will continue in its efforts to bring America back to its Constitution.

    I SO cannot stand the sight of this fraud, Obama, that today I will block all news channels on my Comcast receiver, including FOX, so that I cannot accidentally see his puss, as I surf by. I will try limiting myself to a daily peek at FOXnews.com for non-political news, and relying more on NQ for the updates on this colossal insult to America and essential political matters, and for my fix on trash, I will include daily visits to NYPost.com. They do a great job on fashion and the dumb shits in showbiz.

    FRIGG OBAMA. I WILL NOT ACCEPT HIM AS MY PRESIDENT UNTIL HE SHOWS THE WORLD A GENUINE LEGITIMATE BIRTH CERTIFICATE PROVING HE IS AN AMERICAN BORN CITIZEN.

    .

    • The Robot

      I agree, I cannot stand to look at the fraud Obama’s face either.

      I am now turning off all news – this will give me time to reflect on more important matters anyway.

      As for the new messiah, I will never claim him as president.

      • athena

        Yep – the news is off in my house. I am going to be working out to lose this 10 pounds I have gained stressing out over this election. I will teach my children the constitution and beef up their education. I will also hunt out opportunities to serve in local government. I will finish the 5 books I have started and catch up on reading that I have delayed. I will get my news from sources that have not sipped the hopey-dopey kool-aide. This election has turned me into a conservative from a moderate political precvious leaning. Wow – that says something. I cannot see ever going back.

    • skinny malinky

      The longer you harp on this, the worse you and whatever group or movement you claim to belong to will look. His birth certificate has been examined and shown to be real. Also, there was a birth announcement in a Hawaii paper; do you think that was planted 47 years ago as part of some grand scheme?

      • Hope

        It was examined? By whom? You?
        Do you have evidence that his Hawaiian birth certificate and Newspaper announcement were not issued after being born out of state?
        If there is nothing there, then why hasn’t he released the information?

        If nothing else, it shows a lack of character and a willfull lack of truthfulness to those he seeks to serve. Why let people worry? Why even have the appearance of impropriety?

        • tillthen

          Thank you, Hope, thank you.

      • Jenny

        Any hometown newspaper will put in a birth announcement whether the baby was born there or not at the request of the parents. My children had birth announcements in my hometown paper when they were born even though we had moved 800 miles away. They announcements were also in the local paper of the city where we had moved as a matter of public record. Obituaries are done the same way. They can be printed in the newspaper if the family requests it even though the death was not in that particular city.

      • athena

        Yea, like they have marriage announcements too. You can post your announcement once you return from your “destination wedding”. A newspaper announcement means nothing……

        Why is there even a big mystery surrounding Baracks birth certificate? This would be so easy to resolve and yet it is still out there.

  • http://www.noquarterusa.net Linda

    As a life long democrat who voted for McCain/Palin, I’m finding myself very conservative right now. I’m totally disgusted with the democratic party. The results of this election was the most upseting I personally have ever experienced.
    A very sad time for America.

  • ritamary

    Yes, I too am very happy that California Prop 2 passed. And the Democratic candidate in my congressional district lost. Not that I like the Republican incumbent, a former lobbyist. I believe some opposition voices must be present in the Democratic Congress.

    Now we will have “the end justifies the means” crowd running the country. They are the crowd who entered these phrases into our national dialog: “Bros before hos,” and “Sarah Palin is a c%$t.” A historic election indeed.

    The corporate media, Obama and obots have demostrated it is impossible to sink too low when attacking a female political candidate. I wonder what this all means for women?

    • WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName

      Us women can just go about our frivolous lives, buying up bling and pleasing our men…we shouldn’t worry our pretty little heads about men’s business.

      Gawd! I feel like I’m living in the 1950′s.

    • wodiej

      It means that women are still not respected in our society. This bothers me as much if not more than anything else that went on in this whole ellection from primary to GE.

  • Brian_C82

    Larry, you promised us a whitey video. Remember the night when you said, “Kid, the GOP has the video but won’t use it”? You remember that? This was Mac’s night. He could’ve taken Barky apart!

    Mac could’ve been somebody. He could’ve been a contender. Instead of a gracious loser, which is what he is.

    It was you, Larry.

    It was you.

    • oowawa

      I have to admit, for a troll comment, this one has a sense of style.

  • DeniseL

    Sarah Palin has never shot a wolf. Wolves are beautiful animals and I’m glad that my state has reintroduced them. But, even my state kills wolves to manage them. Wolves do mate for life. They also kill for sport and leave the carcass uneaten. We should not attribute human feelings to wolves.

    People may not like hunters but they have done far more to preserve the wilderness in this country than many other groups. They buy land and keep it wild. They contribute money to organizations such as Pheasants Forever. Most hunters want the wilderness and wildlife to be available for their children and grandchildren.

    • AF catfish

      Yeah all these people who are mad about the wolf pups being shot – were they supposed to be tortured to death? This is ridiculous. I voted for prop. 2 but people who wear leather shoes and eat meat need a reality check.

  • carr50

    Does anyone know how to find out what environmental and animal rights groups were pushing Obama? I donate to a lot of them, but from now on I want to direct my donations to those that didn’t push Obama. The one that did, I want to send back their mailings with a note that says “Ask Obama to give you a check. After all, he ‘promised’ everybody everything.”

  • PoorUSA

    test

  • wodiej

    thank you for the post. I am an avid animal lover right down to squirrels and chipmunks. I do not advocate mistreatment and abuse of animals whatsoever. As far as hunting, some is needed or animals would starve to death due to overpopulation. Some is needed for food. But it should NEVER be done for sport-EVER.

  • SeeNoEvil

    THE BIGGEST LIE THAT WAS EVER TOLD:

    First African-American Elected President of the United States of America ~

    Fact: Senator Obama is a European American with an African father. The color of one’s complexion does not denote nationality. Insofar as race, he is: biracial. A Man of Color. His father did not lend one drop of African-American blood to his being.

    If he declares is truly African-American as he declares then is ineligble to be the Commander In Chief as Africans, per se are not Americans.

    An African-American is someone who is an American who has African heritage rooted in America.

    Senator Obama is European American-African. His American heritage is via Europe, caucasion by race, for that matter. His children also have European heritage mixed with African. They are the grandchildren of Stanley Ann Dunham who was not African.

    Michelle Obama as an African American has made history. Not her husband.

    Fact: Senator Obama has made history as the first American-African elected POTUS with the support of the DNC, ACORN and his foreign contributors.

  • tillthen

    Every email I have received from the Green people were strongly for Obama, never thinking that a Republican would care. What a mistake!

    I will search my Outlook E and post a list.

    • carr50

      Thank you.

  • benny

    the part that scares me is his intent to create a civilian security force. reminds me too much of the brownshirts. lets hope that doesnt happen. now that would be total change.

    • lark

      It will happen. By executive order. At the right time.

  • anon

    Hasn’t anyone noticed that we’ve only been provided exit poll data, not actual poll results? WTF? What were the actual poll results? Why isn’t anyone asking about this?

    • skinny malinky

      All major media outlets are using results from polling places. The numbers are everywhere; why do you think it’s just exit polls?

      • anon

        Last night FOX was using exit poll data. This was weird in itself because in the past they’d make their predictions but would keep on reporting the actual results late into the night. I haven’t seen actual numbers, do you have a link?

        • anon

          Just checked foxnews.com, they are still only reporting exit poll data. WTH?

  • IronMan

    Any lawyers in the house today?

    What are the legal steps to challenge a President-elect Obama?

    I think the electors have it!

    Article XII of Constitution says that the electors must choose among the candidates running for President. If a candidate does not achieve a majority of votes, then the House must choose from the candidates running for President. Each state has one vote.

    Based upon this language (which seems pretty clear), Biden cannot be selected President as he is not a candidate for President. If Obama was disqualified, the President must be selected from the remaining candidates McCain, Nader, etc.

    Correct??

    According to the 12th amendment, the time to object to Obama’s qualifications is after the election, but prior to the meeting of the Electoral College in the fifty states and Washington, D.C.

    Theoretically 51 lawsuits must be filed in the fifty states and D.C. If successful, the outcome will be that the Electors will become “faithless” and able to vote for anyone they choose. Would they choose Joe Biden or someone else?

    Surely the GOP folks have thought of these options??

    This isn’t over by a long shot. There are still legal options that can be taken. We should have a thread on this very issue to discuss this in greater detail.

    • tillthen

      The Democratic Party has thumbed its nose at the Constitution and has transformed into a Nazi-like cabal. Do not underestimate their intentions and evil.

    • Witzend

      I hate the thought as much as you, Ironman, but, short of any direct evidence tying BO to the Rezko land deal – AND an indictment – it looks like this duplicitous Liberal poseur will be “sworn in” (ain’t that a joke) on Jan. 20th.

  • SeeNoEvil

    Jesus Christ, on Fox, Kenyans celebrate and parade American Flag in Distress through their dirt roads.

    How Jubilant!

    What is next?

  • Lindsy

    I really wish the media hadn’t destroyed Palin. Newsweek did another hit job on her today. I really wanted her to be a viable candidate in 2012. But I think they damaged her too deeply. Had 60% of the country believing she wasn’t qualified to be VP.

    • SeeNoEvil

      Lindsay,

      Time will tell. She has committed to fight the media going forward and has challenged them to be truthful and ethical.

      She is not going to disappear.

      Our Troops throughout the world will come to support her.

      She is a winner She’s done more in 2 months than anyone has in the course of years.

      • Lindsy

        She sure sounded like she was going to disappear today in california. She even apologized for losing McCain votes.

        WTH? She helped him far more than she hurt him.

    • AF catfish

      The reason she’s risen so far is she doesn’t let stuff like this keep her back and keep her down.

      That’s the difference between regular people and people who make it to the national stage. How they handle setbacks.

      Palin made a major speech on women’s rights last week – speaking out against honor killings and sharia law. She’ll be a major check on Obama’s power and a force to watch.

      Obama spent BILLIONS to get elected, to construct greek columns, he blew off troops to work out because he would be photographed topless in the Maui surf.

    • Barry bums a ciggie

      4 more years, and she’ll be plenty ready. I am thinking she’s the new wave of conservatives for the GOP. Bobby Jindahl is another. I wouldn’t be surprise if the two of them are a team come 2012. I’m looking forward already to Barry leaving the WH. Don’t like the guy and never will.

      • Boxer Mum 06

        Sarah should be proud and not apology to anyone! She had and will always have my vote. I wish her and her family nothing but the best and I look forward to reading more about her accomplishments as Gov. of Alaska. She is a role model for all women, especially young girls. I was deeply disappointed in Gerry Ferraro. At first she came out strong supporting her but I guess Barry’s thugs got to her too b/c she sure got on the bandwagon trashing her.

  • HARP

    I wonder if Obama`s church will continue to preach against the government or is everything fine now.

    • CJ

      An interesting point indeed!

    • http://firefox Annie

      I doubt that all is forgiven. Somehow I don’t think the chip on the shoulder mentality has room for that. Wright and Farrakhan make too much $$$ off of them to let the Professional Victims Club get away.

  • benny

    Senator Lugar as sec of state? lots of rumours going around

  • http://mccaindemocrats.wordpress.com/ 30yrdem

    Do you know what happens to animals in the wild..say deer…if they are not hunted (for food) they get over populated and then they get sick because there is not proper nourishment for such a huge population of them…some states will add days to the season for females being hunted to stop this problem. What is better, over population and sick animals or controlling the numbers so this won’t happen? damned if you do damned if you don’t.

    • carr50

      The answer is a combination of hunting and allowing natural predators to make a comeback. Back in the 40′s Aldo Leopold (one of the original environmentalists) wrote an essay called “Why The Mountain Fears It’s Deer.” He recognized that in areas that the natural predators (wolf, mountain lion, bear, etc.) were killed off, deer, rodents and other animals overmultiplied, causing plant deforestation and animal starvation.
      I’m a huge wild horse advocate, especially keeping wild horses wild. Natural selection will control numbers.

  • Smudge

    I support Obama. I’m sorry if that makes me “crude” and “cruel,” and I really resent being called an “Obamabot” — call me a Socialist before you refuse to acknowledge my ability to make my own decisions.

    I’m sorry there are so many commenters who resent Obama and are disappointed with this election — America should not be a place where voters feel that the process has forced a President on them.

    I was (and still am) a Hillary supporter, which is in part why I follow this blog. I expect to continue following it. However, I do hope that people understand where I am coming from.

    Thanks,
    Smudge

    • athena

      You are not crude or cruel for supporting him. But on what basis do you support him?

      His conduct in this election?
      His past deeds?
      His experience?
      His following the Rulz in campaign finance?

      I think it is great that America proved that we ARE NOT RACISTS! But I am highly skeptical of Obama.

      Time will tell…..hope is all we have now. We as a country need him to be successful. It is in our best interest. I for one will not be disappointed if/when he fails as I saw the writing on the wall. However, if my predictions are wrong I am happy to be proven wrong. Our country needs to hit a home run and get on top again. I look forward to it. I just have some skepticism and I don’t approve of his apparent lifelong mentors….

      • Smudge

        I don’t approve of them either. But I don’t think they speak for him.

        I voted for him because I saw something in him I didn’t see in McCain, something that seems to be working against the apathy so stereotypical in America for so long. I could go more into this, but not in a WordPress comment. Perhaps I’ll start a blog.

        Anyways, let’s hope he can be a successful President, because you’re absolutely right: it’s in our best interest.

    • SueM

      I don’t resent Obama as much as I resent a press who refused to do its job.

      This man should never have been the nominee, much less the president elect.

      • Pennsylvania Red

        I don’t resent Obama as much as I resent a press who refused to do its job.

        YES

  • IronMan

    Just passing this on for anyone that is interested:

    http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G08/EC-Meeting.phtml

    Place and Time of Meeting
    of 2008 Presidential Electors

    Monday, December 15, 2008
    (first Monday after the second Wednesday in December after presidential election)

    This information was compiled for the 2000 Presidential Election
    and is subject to updating and/or changes for 2008.

    ——————————————————————————–

    “The electors shall meet in their respective States… The Congress may determine… the day on which [the electors] shall give their votes, which day shall be the same throughout the United States”
    U.S. Constitution: Article II, Section 1, clauses 3 and 4

    “The electors of President and Vice President of each State shall meet and give their votes on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December next following their appointment at such place in each State as the legislature of such State shall direct”
    United States Code: Title 3, section 7

    • Pennsylvania Red

      1976: Mike Padden, Washington
      Elector for: Ford (Republican)
      instead voted for: Ronald Reagan (challenged Ford’s GOP nomination)
      Note: Mr. Padden did, however, vote for Ford’s running mate, Robert Dole; Dole thus became the first Vice-Presidential candidate to receive more Electoral Votes than the top of the National Ticket on which he was running.

      That’s an interesting factoid…

      But I don’t get your point in posting this?

  • Typewriterstreaming

    The Obama supporters in my office can’t believe Prop 8 passed. Now they really thought Obama and his supporters were going to help them solidify rights for Gays! Shocked they are, shocked I tell you!
    I’m all for the passage of this Prop 2- outstanding, but really, isn’t it something else – standing up for animals – yes, humans – ah – not so much. Again, I really think this is excellent and certainly a bright spot in a sad election cycle. Thanks so much for the post, but have to say wish it didn’t include yet another criticism of Sarah Palin just today. Today’s ripe with it and it’s beyond sickening already.

    • http://firefox Annie

      That’s California for you. Completely illogical.

      I find it strange too that Physicians/hospitals need parental authority to treat a minor…except for abortion. I suppose there needs to be a way to protect minors (through counselors or other conservators) in cases of victims of incest or rape. But I believe parents, on the whole, need to know and be involved with a child’s care and its consequences. If it’s due to incest, it needs to be reported and charges brought.

    • Mr. Natural

      they really thought Obama and his supporters were going to help them solidify rights for Gays!

      “I stick my neck out for no one.” – Rick, Casablanca

  • SueM

    I honestly don’t know if I can take 4 years of this. The opening page on yahoo today is a picture of Obama with the title..”Our First Global President”.

    Oh Lord. It’s almost just too damn much.

    • Pennsylvania Red

      That’s a lot of hype to have to live up to.

      The press is setting him up for a fall whether they know it or not.

  • oowawa

    standing up for animals – yes, humans – ah – not so much

    I hear what you’re saying Typewriterstreaming. As I see it, the problem with humans and animals goes back to the book of Genesis, where it says that God gave men dominion over the animals–thereby separating humans from animals as a different SORT of creature. In fact, humans ARE animals, and NOT a different KIND of creature. I think it is tied up to the notion that humans have souls whereas animals do not. And so, animal rights have lagged WAY behind the struggle for human rights. We need to cultivate a respect for ALL animal life, both two-legged and four-legged. It will make us all better and more complete two-legged beings.

  • tillthen

    Wow, oowawa, wow! Thanks.

  • KathyNeocon

    I voted yes too and am thrilled it passed. Chalk one up for animals. :D

  • JML

    Since this is an open thread, I hope I can post this off-topic thing.

    Unhappy write-up about Obama and this election at the Black Agenda Report: http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=873&Itemid=1

    Not everyone here will love the write-up, but here’s the intro:

    There is no doubt that history has been made, “for reasons that go beyond the obvious ‘first Black’ aspect of race.” 2008 was the first year in modern history that Blacks made no demands on the Democratic candidate – and consequently, were promised nothing. This was the election cycle in which the Black who began as a supposed “underdog” became the most heavily-funded candidate of all time. There are many lessons to be learned – but few of them palatable to folks still drunk on ObamaL’aid.

    See the link for the rest of the article, for those of you who might be interested. I know there are several African Americans posting here. And I know that if they’ve been vocal with their families and friends, they’ve had to stand up to incredible criticism and maybe even abuse. I want them to know that refusing to support Obama does not make them “sell-outs.” Perhaps the sell-outs are the Black Americans who DID support Obama.

    • http://firefox Annie

      I can’t imagine what MLK would say about this if he were here. Certainly the people who support are in charge of Obama are not those who were with Dr. King. They are the people who killed the peace makers. Further, Dr. King was a Baptist Minister and would not have had anything to do with BLT or Farrakhan…which is probably what got him killed. I’m sure James Earl Ray didn’t do this on his own…any more than Sirhan Sirhan in killing Bobby. Funny, all the people who profited from those power struggles live in the same Chicago neighborhood. We are still feeling the loss of those two today. Remembering those days, it seemed as though we cried for months. Watching the people at Ebenezer Baptist Church in hysteria last night was sooooo strange. Do they remember nothing?

  • http://glow4hillary.blogspot.com/ Still4Hill

    YES!! Thank you California voters for passing Proposition 2 – a just law.

  • Entwife

    I have to pass along anything erudite (and I mean that in a good way, probably should look up that definition) concerning the legal issues of Berg vs Obama. Very good one here, especially for a legal mind; put on your glasses and get ready for solid food on these pages:

    http://cusc.org/5761.html

    CUSC is Citizens for the United States Constitution.

  • Janet Mc

    I’m glad NQ will go on. I will still come here daily.

    One thing we have to watch out for – the Dems are trying to make 401k’s not tax deductible. That is a huge tax increase for the middle class. You all know where the taxes will go. We have to stop that.

    I’m glad NQ will be there to watch BO. The MSM sure doesn’t.

  • Mr. Natural

    Here in Michigan we both legalized medical marijuana and expanded stem cell research.

    So here’s a suggestion. All you Michiganders who are unhappy with the legalization of stem cell research can now ease your anguish with a semi-sorta-legal joint.

  • Queenie

    too bad the dead Iraqi’s at our hands did not have PROP 2…JUST SAYING………

  • Entwife

    USA Today open letter/grievance requiring proof of Obama citizenship to be published week of Nov. 10. Amazing, and so sad, it would come to this.

    http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/misc2008/Obama-USA-TODAY-ad.htm

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