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Debt, Deficits and Jobs–Unrelated

Watching both parties play chicken with the mish mash of Federal debt, the Federal deficit and unemployment is sickening and frustrating. Both sides, Republicans and Democrats, are to blame. Let’s start by exploding the biggest myth–burgeoning Federal debt and deficit spending is causing further job losses.

Nope. That’s pure bullshit. Our nation’s unemployment problem is caused by one thing–the collapse of real estate prices and a huge pile of foreclosed properties. The fallout from this is pervasive. For example, the collapse of real estate prices makes it virtually impossible for people to refinance existing properties or secure loans for a new or previously owned. So companies that make loans and employ appraisers are not expanding. This also means that builders of new homes and remodelers are stagnant. No need for new or refurbished housing when you have scads still on the market. That means that electricians, plumbers, carpenters, painters, roofers and cement workers are underemployed or out of work. If they are out of work or not bringing in their normal salary then they have less money for buying clothes, furniture, and meals out. Understand?

The Federal debt and the Federal budget don’t directly affect this market unless the Federal Government commits to buying up the properties that are underwater. That’s not on the table.

So we are left with Barack Obama’s spending spree. As I pointed out in a previous post, George W. Bush ran up almost $6 trillion in debt. Yes, he’s guilty. But he took eight years to get those numbers. That’s 725 billion of new debt per year under George W. Bush. He had the help of both Republicans and Democrats.

So how about Obama? He’s racking up debt at twice the rate of George W. Bush–$1.36 trillion dollars per year. What is shocking is that all of this Federal spending has had such an anemic stimulative effect. Why? A sizeable chunk of the money went to sustain State and local governments, which are not in the job creating entities. A substantial amount also has gone overseas to support military operations in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq.

So what if the debt keeps going up? Well, you have to ask, “who owns the debt?” If your brother or sister lends you a bunch of money then you have one type of problem (e.g., Thanksgiving could be an uncomfortable scene if you default). However, if you borrowed money from the bank and secured that loan with collateral you will find yourself facing foreclosure or loss of property. If you borrowed the dough from the mob? They’ll only break your fucking legs if you are lucky.

My point? Who owns the debt determines the nature of our problem and threat. The soaring U.S. debt has been bought up by a growing number of foreign interests. That is not a recipe for enhancing our nation’s security. In fact, it puts us in a situation that our pursuit of legitimate national security interests overseas could be in jeopardy.

The irony is that our politicians are now obsessed with the Federal deficit and are haggling over what to cut and raising taxes. Ironically, cutting the Federal budget and raising taxes will have a further negative drag on the economy. Further Federal spending, unless specifically targeted on clearing out the back log of foreclosed and udnerwater properties, will have little effect on boosting the national economy.

A robust economic recovery and change in policies that promoted the repatriation of foreign profits would produce more revenue that would help reduce the deficit. So we are not locked into a single solution kind of problem.

Going forward it is important that we do not mix debt/deficits with the jobs problem. The first priority ought to be getting people back to work and that means getting the back log of foreclosed and underwater properties cleaned up. Until that happens we will continue to drift along.

  • HELENK

    here is a novel idea , stop playing politics, get off your dead a$$es  and get it done.
    everybody blaming the other  party on why no reform on freddie and fanny may.

    http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre76b5xf-us-usa-housing-gse-reform/

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE , MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE CHATTERING PEOPLE RULE

  • wodiej

    I disagree in part.  The unemployment is indeed partially connected to the housing market debacle.  But other factors that many economists, conservatives and business owners say are causing the stall is the uncertainty.  Too many business regulations.  Teetering back and forth of whether they will have to pay more taxes.  And the health care debacle that will saddle us with more debt.  

  • Swampyankee09

    Give every taxpayer a rebate. Small business tax holiday.Raise debt to size of rebate. Cap Fed. spending.As recovery begins,start chopping.

  • Craig Della Penna

    Larry:

    Excellent post, it’s interesting to see that you and Paul Krugman (of all people) are on an intersecting course http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=1 

    Not quite on the same page but getting very close – strange times!

     

  • Wbboe

    Larry– I spoke to a friend who is an expert on the economy a couple minutes ago and he agrees with your assessment, that the real estate crash is the cause in fact for the absence of job growth.  He said that between 2002 and 2007 eighty percent (80%) of the jobs added in this country were in real estate and that industry has a multiplier effect throughout the economy–meaning that each real estate job created, creates or supports other new jobs.

    Today however, under the big media declared Messiah, New Lincoln and Man For All Seasons, the only place we find job creation is in government and in health care, where no multiplier effect is present. And because The One has no answers to the policy questions, no concept of business, the best he can do is play the class warfare card (when he is not also playing the race card–or entering the gladiator ring with a sling shot, and killing Obama who is armed with a AK-47–with ring announcer Howard Fineman quoting the Bible.

    On the odds, there will be no recovery because business has parked its cash on the sidelines.  That spells certain doom for Obama, or a 15 state sweep, with the rest of the 57 (sic 50) states going to whoever the Republican candidate turns out to be.  The real danger will arise when The One realizes finally that this thing is slipping away from him, and at that point we may see a replay of what we saw with Hitler when the war was irretrievably lost and the Southern Redoubt was shown to be nothing more than an urban legend–he turned on the people.  Obama is capable of exactly that, in my opinion–and Soros will show him the way–sure as God made little green apples.

    • Wbboe

      correction: Obama enters the gladiator ring and kills OSAMA.  Mea culpa–but the two are easily confused–the only difference is one letter of the alphabet–a B–as opposed to an S, which spells BS which reminds me again of The One.

  • Anonymous

    Larry, In my view, you are absolutely correct.  One wonders, though, why so few of our elected representatives seem to understand this.  In my opinion, it is because they believe that American voters (which are the only citizens that they care about) are so ignorant that no matter what they do, they will get voted back into office.  The President essentially said so in his speech today, and his key political advisors have certainly indicated that that’s what they;re advising him, as well.
    The only way out of this mess is for voters to change the longstanding political paradigm of voting for the best orator and the best political organizer, regardless of what they say or what their record is.  That takes work to discover what a candidate’s policies and record is, though, the type of work that the average voter heretofore has not been willing to undertake.  It’s pretty clear so far that politicians of both parties think that they can get away with pretty much anything and that they will still be elected.  Will this change in 2012?  No one knows, yet, but if it does, it will be a start toward a government that works for us instead of being a self-licking ice cream cone. 

    • Ferd_Berfle

      Distilled to its essence: Vote for someone who is not a career politician on the take.

  • yttik

    “Let’s start by exploding the biggest myth–burgeoning Federal debt and deficit spending is causing further job losses.”

    I disagree, Larry. The interest on the debt is what causes prices to shoot up. The debt is why bread used to costs 50 cents a loaf a few years ago and now costs close to 4 bucks. The price of everything is going up at unpredictable rates. The interest on the debt is like an invisible tax, it’s attached to everything. When you’re a business it’s very hard to predict what materials and supplies are going to cost a few months from now and if you can’t predict your expenses, you can’t predict how much money you’ll have for payroll, for expansion. Also businesses have to raise prices to cover the higher costs, but in a bad economy, customers can’t afford higher prices.

    • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

      You are welcome to disagree but you are dead ass wrong.  We do not have an inflationary spike yet.  You will be correct in a couple of years when our burgeoning debt does kick off an inflationary spike.  At that point the debt burden will have a dramatic negative effect on the unemployment picture.  But the job losses to date are due primarily to the housing crisis. thanks for playing.

      • yttik

        Larry, Larry, Larry, we’ve been going through an inflationary spike for a few years now and it is directly related to the nat’l debt. The cost of goods has been  skyrocketing out of control. We have covered it up by reducing the quality of goods with places like Wal Mart and fast food restaurants, places that can keep providing us with what we’re used too, just at a lower quality. Giving people credit cards so they can continue to pretend they have enough money for basic needs has also helped to hide the situation.

        Milk, Larry, cost me a 1.99 last year, it now cost over 3 bucks. That’s an inflationary spike. I can’t even bid a job 3 months down the road because I haven’t got a flippin clue what plywood is going to cost by then.

        The Nat’l debt has a huge impact on our economy.

        • Anonymous

          >>> I can’t even bid a job 3 months down the road because I haven’t got a flippin clue what plywood is going to cost by then. 

          How old are you? Because I want to say, “WELCOME TO 1974!”

          When it appears to get out of hand, some a-hole will plump for Wage and Price Controls.

          When that happens, 15 LB Felt will disappear, but NEW, 20 LB Felt (at a much higher price) will suddenly become plentiful.

          “New” product, no Price Control…

          3000 PSI concrete will spike, but “3500 LB” concrete will be readily available, because it will be a “New” product, and not subject to Price Control.

          I can remember GE (Remember them? They pay no Corporate taxes?) sending me NEW Appliance Catalogs. The only difference between the OLD (Price controlled) appliances and the NEW products with NO price controls were…drum roll…wait for it…they Changed the Model Numbers, and Discontinued the Old (Price controlled) products.

          AMERICAN BIG BUSINESS: FUCKING THE LITTLE GUY SINCE, WELL, FOREVER!!!

      • Anonymous

        >>> We do not have an inflationary spike yet.

        You are Correct, sir!

        Things MAY become Weimar-ish for a time. This is why I have stockpiled canned goods, semi-durables and have planted enough garden to feed Mrs N and I and perhaps a few neighbors with something to trade.

        It is going to get Ugly…

  • Wisewoman

    Larry,
    You are so right.  I remember this issue came up during the campaign with Hillary.  Whether you agreed with her approach or not at least she laid out a concise plan to address the mortgage crisis situation.  She even published it on her website.  It was a plan that somewhat copied the approach taken during the Savings and Loan crisis that occurred during Bush I.  It was well thought out.  She kept saying that we had to face that crisis head on otherwise it would further wreck the economy.  Obama never remotely talked about addressing the problem.  So as the problem mushroomed he came up with peicemeal, ineffective, stopgap measures that did not address the heart of the problem.  Again the Obots did not listen and we all are paying the price.

    In 2003 at the ripe old age of 58 and while still working a Federal government job, I took out an equity loan and opened my own business, a Daiquiri Shop in Jackson, MS that also served a light food menu.  (Note:  My husband had paid off the mortgage on the house before retiring in 2002).  Working both jobs the first year of the business I did around $400,000 in sales.  After Katrina hit in 2005, business slowed considerably.  By the time I decided to close it in 2006 things were not good.  The customer traffic had slowed considerably.  Now I am paying off an equity loan where the value of the house is almost half of what it was when I took out the loan.  Ordinary Americans pay (those who work hard and play by the rules) while no one in the NY financial section or at Fannie or Freddie goes to jail.  THAT MY FRIEND IS THE GOOD OLD AMERICAN WAY!!

  • Anonymous

    obama-deficit-2011.jpg

  • Anonymous

    In today’s press conference, Obama used a very unsavory and inappropriate combination of images.  In referring to the negotiations that are intended to stop the deficit crisis, he said it is time to “pull off the band-aid; eat our peas.”  Eating peas right after pulling off the band-aid?  Yuk.  And really, why pull off the band-aid, when what we need is a tourniquet to stop the monetary hemorrhage?  And if we give peas a chance, will that solve the problem?  Does that mean we can no longer have arugula?
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/07/11/obama_on_deficit_talks_time_to_pull_off_the_band-aid_eat_our_peas.html

    • Ferd_Berfle

      Did you watch that God-awful wretched excess? His nose grew longer with each mangled sentence. I was expecting to see smoke rising from behind the podium.

    • Linda Anselmi

      OMG oowawa -

      Your comment should come with a warning.  I was eating a salad while reading comments and just about choked to death.  No peas involved.  But I’ve kind of lost my appetite for the arugula now that I know their could be a band-aid hidden among the greens. 

    • Anonymous

      Am I a racist if I say “I don wanna eat my blackeyed peas?”…
      he didn’t say wht kind did he?

    • yttik

      ROFL! Too funny, oowawa.

      I heard some of those unsavory combination of images, too. He made one about a boat, he said if everyone just gets in the boat at the same time, it won’t tip over. Yeah dude, it will probably just sink. The only time we’ve ever coordinated a group of people to all jump in the boat at once was when we were at a lake and hoping to get wet.

      • Anonymous

        LOL–We’re all going to get into the boat at the same time and Obama will row the boat ashore, Hallelujah.

        Merrily Merrily Merrily Merrily
        Life is but a dream….

    • Wbboe

      Exactly what my friend told me today.  He said that Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth.  Since he cannot sell his policies on the merits, he must resort to fear mongering.  And big media is always there to do his bidding.  Always.  He said if Obama is ousted in 2012 then the economy will take off like a coiled spring.  Whereas if Obama is re elected because people succumb once again to the undue influence of big media over the election process, then all the rest of us can do is invest in commodities and other inflation hedges in order to survive.

  • Anonymous

    obama to hold news conference…..blech.  My guess is he will use it to
    try to beat down the GOP and get his way in the debt ceiling talks.
    The added plus is job security for his teleprompter…..asshole!!

    “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
    http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

  • Anonymous

    OK – I gotta say that our layoffs and hiring are due strictly to contracts for our services.
    Not uncertainty over anything – Obamacare, taxes, regulations, deficits or whatever.
    Strictly based on our sales.
    If we are getting the money in, we hire. If we don’t we lay off.
    One company is laying off. One is hiring. If we can match the skill sets needed we can segue our laid off people into the new jobs.

    I’m tired of political spin theories.

    • wodiej

      Ever thought about the dynamics of fewer sales? Uncertainty from buyers.

      • Anonymous

        Well you are right if you are talking about consumers, wodiej. If consumers don’t buy from our clients then our clients don’t buy the stuff we make. But I doubt that consumers aren’t buying because of uncertainty about government regulation or taxes.
        They’re not buying because everybody is broke.

  • Anonymous

    For example, the collapse of real estate prices makes it virtually
    impossible for people to refinance existing properties or secure loans
    for a new or previously owned. So companies that make loans and employ
    appraisers are not expanding. This also means that builders
    of new
    homes and remodelers are stagnant.
    _____________________________________________________

    It’s worse than that, Larry. Because Corporation tax rates are higher (than Canada even) and Congress has been lowering personal tax rates (way lower than Reagan’s time), the accountants have been channeling small businesses into S Corps and LLCs. I’ve had to really push back on this with my accountants.
    Small business people now equate their business with their personal, instead of separating them. And now, their prime method of financing their business (home equity loans) is closed to them.
    I now equate the “too big to fail” banks with organized crime.

    • Guest

      It’s always fascinating to have an insider perspective. The balance sheets of a lot of smaller banks must be messed up as well. I can only presume that the FDIC is slowly working through quite a problem list of institutions with so many  sectors of the economy (housing, commercial real estate, consumer loans, state and local governments etc), that are experiencing severe financial difficulties themselves.

  • Wbboe

    Larry, that is interesting.  The real estate crash is the primary reason for the lack of job growth.  Not the deficit, not the debt, etc.  You may be right. 

    However, if you had asked me the question what is the cause in fact of the lack of  significant job growth I would have given a different answer–not that yours is wrong.  I would have said it is regulatory and tax burden uncertainty which makes entrepreneurs unwilling to put capital at risk.  That is the reason given by top business leaders for why they have parked $3 trillion on the sidelines, and not created the job expansion in this country that would produce jobs.  That charge directly implicates Obama.  What is interesting is some of his own supporters are the ones who are making it. 

    But there is another factor too and that is the structural change in the economy elucidated by Kenneth Philips in the book Bad Money, which tells us of a decision made by the elites to effectively abandon manufacturing, half abandon high tech and stake our future on the financial sector.  To me that is the most intractable problem of all.

    Phillips is a former Republican insider who left the party over issues like this.  He is an honest man.  David Brock was also a Republican of a much lower order, and when he decided to come out of the closet, he switched parties, founded media matters and there was Uncle George (Soros) with a big fat paycheck to reward him.  He is a scumbag propagandist wherever he happens to hang his hat.

    • Docelder

      In that small business is the primary job creator… yes. I know for myself my home lost half it’s value. So many small business owners borrow against their homes to finance their small business ventures… also the loss of security knowing that from no fault of your own a good deal of your life savings is now just gone… it has to be very demotivating to people… and these are mostly middle class people. Especially when they see big business getting free money even as the small business and the entire middle class is being driven out of existence by policy.

      • Wbboe

        I have a friend who owns to Wendy’s restarurants in Indiana.  She has owned them for 15 years, works 16 hours per day to keep them going, and employs 120 people. On the eve of the general  election, she put a pencil to some of the increased burdens on small business which Messiah Obama was bloaviationg about, and concluded that if they went through as proposed she would be compelled to shut her doors.  Obama claims to be an economist, but as we said at the time, he has never run so much as a hotdog stand. I tried to get the McCain campaign to send a camera crew in to do a campaign commercial which might have turned the tide in Indiana, which as I recall he narrowly lost.  They were unresponsive.  They did take what I sent them for the third debate-the one he won–and told me it made a difference.  Perhaps. But if  I am any judge a campaign commercial like this one would have made a bigger difference in a swing state.  Well, it wasn’t to be.  But the problem you allude to remains and if job growth is to be the priority that is where the emphasis should be.  And if we want job growth, then I submit it is madness to make Imelt–the job exporter your jobs Czar–its like a sick joke. Put a small businessman or woman in charge–someone  who has walked the walk.

  • Jwrjr

    There is one thing that Obama cou8ld do to help employment (and thus the whole Economy – make Ebergy cost less.  Too bad he is doing exactly the opposite,

  • Anonymous

    To put it simply….”We are screwed for now and the immediate future”

    “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
    http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

  • SWPAnnA

    Obama and his administration, supporters and the Congressional Leadership are so stupid and self-serving that the dna of Americans has figured them out pretty well….the underground economy is flourishing and the folks are just riding out this idiot.  Nobody invests in a Gangster Government still clapping themselves on the back for electing a “Brother.”   Those same “Princes” are fighting with the NFL and NBA owners over their fair share of billions of the ‘fans’ dollars…are you kidding?  Instead of Progressive style Push-Back, Women voters are letting the poser and his race-baiting pushers fall flat on their faces withholding their votes, refusing to influence family menbers to vote Democrat and rejecting the dip-shit guys who were all so ’INSPIRED’ by Obama back in 2008 that they flipped on HRC for a speech-maker (whose poll numbers drop every time he opens his mouth)…too bad he didn’t inspire them to do some legitimate work….or perhaps lead by example.   One more voting cycle should pretty well finish up the democrats, leaving a trail of “bitter, clinging to guns and church” defeated Democrats to realize that those “Local Government Jobs” aren’t coming back either.  No Patronage, No Politician’s (except maybe Sarah Palin) going to get in there with sleeves rolled up to git ’er done for the community, the country, the gratification of positive results. 

    • Anonymous

      “One more voting cycle should pretty well finish up the democrats,
      leaving a trail of “bitter, clinging to guns and church” defeated
      Democrat”

      LOL–How about a trail of bitter Dems, clinging to their Obama logos and their “hope and change” video clips….

      • Docelder

        All those American flags going to the trash after the Denver convention was an omen of things to come… the demo-bots at the convention threw them to the ground as soon as they were no longer needed as props for the TV cameras. Styrofoam pillars… smoke and mirrors… bullshit. That’s all there is folks. Hope and change condensed to one word… bullshit.

        • Anonymous

          those flags in the trash still pisses me off to this day

      • Anonymous

        Oh the tragedy of all those Obama 08 bumper stickers…

    • Anonymous

       ”One more voting cycle should pretty well finish up the democrats, leaving a trail of “bitter, clinging to guns and church” defeated Democrats”
      —————————————————————————————-
      I so want to believe this; but I am so shell-shocked after the second election of Bush II, which I was convinced wouldn’t happen, and the deification in 2008 of the Poser, whom I thought everybody could see right through, that I’m not even letting myself imagine what that glorious day will feel like when America experiences the thrill of victory and Obambi wallows in the agony of defeat.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MCA6QIPPR3EXRQRYL3MVYJSKLQ Joe

    Larry – For simplicity’s sake, I think you have again nailed it.  I do think however, that this economic weakness has been going on for so long now, that many other factors beyond housing are also contributing to this prolonged stagnation.

    It is not the credit limit stalemate itself, but rather the glaring lack of leadership and a dysfunctional government, that is serving to enhance the doubt and confusion for everybody who is trying to make both small and large, short term and long term decisions of ANY kind.  I think we are all tired of the pissing match going on in DC, and this is what you get with no leadership.

    And never mind the latest initiative that will allow people to say in their homes for 12 months before foreclosure can begin.

    • Anonymous

      Yes–12 months–that would be enough time for the legs to heal….

    • Wbboe

      The lack of leadership  from Obama and his abject failure to make this the number one priority from the start–rather than cramming health care deform down the public’s throats is the controlling factor.  Policy solutions are difficult and boring. All he is interested in is a headline. I have met people like that in the business world.  Typically, they crash their companies.

      That said, I still say leadership–or the lack thereof and the business cyle are only part of it.  I continue to feel that much of it is structural.  The old global system relied on the United States to be the consumer nation, and the lowering of tariffs, and government support for offshoring, and new technology, i.e. the computer etc, permitted the transfer of work to low cost foreign venues.  It is unclear to me how we get that genie back into the bottle without generating  a trade war.  The eventual substitution of an international currency for the dollar pushed by people like the Democratic Party’s main money man Soros will surely compound the problem.

      • Ferd_Berfle

        The lack of leadership  from Obama and his abject failure to make this
        the number one priority from the start–rather than cramming health care
        deform down the public’s throats is the controlling factor.
        =======================
        True that. Barky had both houses of Congress and could have pushed through real reform and put policies into place that might have mitigated this economic crisis. Instead he screwed around with healthcare, as though that was the number one issue on our minds. That it wasn’t is amply demonstrated by the bloodbath the democrats took in ’10. If those idiot democrats have any brains at all, they’ll stay far away from that moron in the WH and the other two stooges, Reid and Pelousi.

  • Anonymous

    Well, Larry, pretty much everything I had was in my house, and that has certainly been the main factor affecting me personally.
    Other causes for the job crisis: I think there are many causes and it is systemic.
    1–We are shifting to a worldwide economy and labor is cheaper in other countries (talking to a customer service rep in a foreign country really brings this home).  Similarly, manufacturers find it cheaper to make their products overseas.
    2–Certain tax loopholes make it profitable for companies like GE to keep their profits overseas so that it is not “repatriated” and taxed by the US government.
    3–Uncertainty of the actual costs of Obamacare make it risky for small employers to hire new employees.
    4–General uncertainty over the tax code makes it risky to hire new employees.
    5–There is very little confidence or predictability in what Obama (think, carbon tax, cap and trade) or the American electorate will do next.  The future is a big question mark.

    I’m not an economist, but from my armchair, these seem to be some of the pertinent factors.  Drastically overhauling the tax code is perhaps one way to get things moving. 

    • Docelder

      Business started laying off even before Obama was sworn in… just knowing he was elected and coming was enough for some to just give up… hold tight and wait for Hurricane Barry to pass. Business knew good and well what he was and what was coming and they are acting accordingly… hunkered up and living off their disaster stock until the storm passes. It’s a waiting game… will Hurricane Barry pass before business runs out of reserves? It depends on whether it passes in 2012 or whether it doubles back on us for a second pass. I am not sure we can withstand a second pass.

      • Dorinda

        Doc, it’s too late for many of the businesses.  Their reserves may have helped them survive a normal downturn but this has gone on so long with no end in sight.  Far too many had to fold.

        I don’t want to be part of a conspiracy crowd who believes Obama is destroying America on purpose.  That’s so hard to wrap my head around.  But how can such a large group of people (his administration, media, supporters) be so stunningly stupid to be able to accomplish the destruction of this country?  On purpose.

    • FrenchNail

      The Media keeps talking about the uncertainty of Obama’s policies. That is unreal !!!

      What is preventing small and big business to invest and hire is the Predicatability of Obama’s policies. By now, everybody knows he is anti-business and pro Big Brother. And until he goes and his/her successor proves him/herself different, businesses and individuals will be holding back.

      Insider’s note: MAJOR MAJOR slowing down on the real estate market since the beginning of July. Expect horrible numbers coming out in August. The majority of foreigner/cash buyers has stopped investing. For the ones who think all our talks of defaulting on our debts is just noise on TV, think again, It is scary to investors.

  • Anonymous

    “However, if you borrowed money from the bank and secured that loan with
    collateral you will find yourself facing foreclosure or loss of
    property. If you borrowed the dough from the mob? They’ll only break
    your fucking legs if you are lucky.”

    Will they refinance?  Do they deal in reverse mortgages?  If they break my legs, can I stay in my house while I’m recovering?  If my house stays underwater, will that mean I have to go sleep with the fishes?

    • Anonymous

      Well, on the bright side, I suppose if you are sleeping with the fishes, you have no more worries…..except possibly running into osama bin laden…lol

      “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
      http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

    • Anonymous

      I worked it out.

      1. Took Chapter 7 BK after maxing out credit cards (took 3 years…I had a LOT of unused Credit);

      2. Strategic Defaulted my Underwater home in the Las Vegas Valley (bought before the Stupid Money Time). Lender didn’t wish to Modify, as I was current on payments and hadn’t missed any. Screw them, it’s in litigation and may well STAY there for 3 years or so.

      3. While I still had credit, bought a nice house, same size, in a good neighborhood in a town in Arizona where they were ALSO under water…but, this town wasn’t full of LA trash…er, California Refugees…has nice soil, bigger lots and decent services, coupled with low taxes.

      And, I bought the sumbitch with an FHA loan!

      (Ain’t Socialism wonderful?)

      I have been f****d over so many times through so many Recessions when I was in business, I felt it was my Obligation to work it to my advantage, at least ONCE. So, now my Shelter expense is $1200/lower lower, my Quality of Life is much better, and I can actually live on my SS, as long as it comes in.

      Although with Obama and the Karl Marx Marching and Chowder Society running the jook, that’s not assured… 

      • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

        A smart play acting in your own interest.  I know others who have done a similar thing.

      • Mainly

        I’d like to hear more about what u did.  In the same boat w/ current payments but the house isn’t worth squat.  It’s now worth about half of what”s owed. 

        • Anonymous

          Find a good lawyer. Mrs Natural and I planned this back in 2006, when the Writing Was On The Wall that the ass-end was going to fall off the economy, and determined that THIS time we would get Kissed Good-Night.

          Takes a thick skin to tell One and All to kiss your butt, go screw themselves, or, my favorite: “Sue me.”

          I don’t owe a dime to anyone who took money from their SS check, cashed in an IRA, etc. Every Creditor I have is in the money-lending business, and every one of them knocked himself out to lend it to me, whether I asked for it or not.

          “You can use the enclosed Convenience Checks to make purchases…”

          Really? Sounds like an old NATIONAL LAMPOON ad to me.

          In Business, Losses Occur, or so I was told when people owed ME money. Ergo, it’s the Money Lenders’ Turn.

          What? Some Wall Street titan or Charlotte Whizz-Kid might have to sleep with an UGLY supermodel or snort Common Colobian instead of Peruvian Flake?

          No more Dom on the Gulfstrean, just Great Western?

          Awww… poor babies.

          Getting Judgement-Proof takes pre-planning.

          And, if BK makes you gag, look at all the swells who evade taxes by “living” in a hotel room in Houston (GHW Bush), lodging their patents in Switzerland (Cisco) or turning their US company into a Bermuda “brass plate” organization (Stanley).

          Hell, I have John Doe nominee shareholders of a Wyoming Corporation, and that corporation owns two of my Nevada corporations.

          When GE and Cisco Systems “repatriate” all of those profits they’re lodging overseas, I might straighten up.

          Meantime, What’s Good for GE is Good for Mister Natural.  

          Would this make you an a-hole?

          If you CARE, you’re not Prepared.

          Read this:

          http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aLYZhnfoXOSk

          The Red Meat is in this quote: (speaking of Morgan Stanley)

          “This isn’t a default or foreclosure situation,” Barnes said. “We are going to give them the properties to get out of the loan obligation.”

          Sounds like a Big-Assed “Cash for Keys,” to me, but then, I went to school in Gainesville, not Cambridge or New Haven.

        • wodiej

          what you do is MAKE YOUR PAYMENT PER YOUR CONTRACT.  The bank does not guarantee your home retaining it’s value.  

      • Mainly

        I’d like to hear more about what u did.  In the same boat w/ current payments but the house isn’t worth squat.  It’s now worth about half of what”s owed.