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“Franklin Delano Obama?” * Open Thread!

OPEN THREAD! But first … I still love Paul Krugman, and not just because he’s so cute. It’s because he so heartily, all-out endorsed Hillary Clinton’s health care, housing, and economic plans because he knew that she knew what she was doing. And he had no shyness about condemning Barack Obama’s pallid health care and economic plans.

I also love Paul Krugman because he was pilloried by ALL of the leftie blogs, from the Daily Bolsheviks to I’m-An-Exspurt-Way-More-Than-You-Rubes Jossshhh Marshall at Talking Points Memo (which devotes all of its journalistic resources, often, to sex scandals involving Republicans). Here’s a bit of the latest Paul “He’s Mine!” Krugman (and, yes, I know he’s married, but a girl can dream):

Franklin Delano Obama?

Suddenly, everything old is New Deal again. Reagan is out; F.D.R. is in. Still, how much guidance does the Roosevelt era really offer for today’s world?

The answer is, a lot. But Barack Obama should learn from F.D.R.’s failures as well as from his achievements: the truth is that the New Deal wasn’t as successful in the short run as it was in the long run. And the reason for F.D.R.’s limited short-run success, which almost undid his whole program, was the fact that his economic policies were too cautious. (continued below)

About the New Deal’s long-run achievements: the institutions F.D.R. built have proved both durable and essential. Indeed, those institutions remain the bedrock of our nation’s economic stability. Imagine how much worse the financial crisis would be if the New Deal hadn’t insured most bank deposits. Imagine how insecure older Americans would feel right now if Republicans had managed to dismantle Social Security.

Can Mr. Obama achieve something comparable? Rahm Emanuel, Mr. Obama’s new chief of staff, has declared that “you don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste.” Progressives hope that the Obama administration, like the New Deal, will respond to the current economic and financial crisis by creating institutions, especially a universal health care system, that will change the shape of American society for generations to come.

But the new administration should try not to emulate a less successful aspect of the New Deal: its inadequate response to the Great Depression itself.

Now, there’s a whole intellectual industry, mainly operating out of right-wing think tanks, devoted to propagating the idea that F.D.R. actually made the Depression worse. So it’s important to know that most of what you hear along those lines is based on deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. The New Deal brought real relief to most Americans.

That said, F.D.R. did not, in fact, manage to engineer a full economic recovery during his first two terms. This failure is often cited as evidence against Keynesian economics, which says that increased public spending can get a stalled economy moving. But the definitive study of fiscal policy in the ’30s, by the M.I.T. economist E. Cary Brown, reached a very different conclusion: fiscal stimulus was unsuccessful “not because it does not work, but because it was not tried.”

This may seem hard to believe. The New Deal famously placed millions of Americans on the public payroll via the Works Progress Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps. To this day we drive on W.P.A.-built roads and send our children to W.P.A.-built schools. Didn’t all these public works amount to a major fiscal stimulus?

Well, it wasn’t as major as you might think. The effects of federal public works spending were largely offset by other factors, notably a large tax increase, enacted by Herbert Hoover, whose full effects weren’t felt until his successor took office. Also, expansionary policy at the federal level was undercut by spending cuts and tax increases at the state and local level.

And F.D.R. wasn’t just reluctant to pursue an all-out fiscal expansion — he was eager to return to conservative budget principles. That eagerness almost destroyed his legacy.

After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections.

What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs.

This history offers important lessons for the incoming administration.

The political lesson is that economic missteps can quickly undermine an electoral mandate. Democrats won big last week — but they won even bigger in 1936, only to see their gains evaporate after the recession of 1937-38. Americans don’t expect instant economic results from the incoming administration, but they do expect results, and Democrats’ euphoria will be short-lived if they don’t deliver an economic recovery.

The economic lesson is the importance of doing enough. F.D.R. thought he was being prudent by reining in his spending plans; in reality, he was taking big risks with the economy and with his legacy. My advice to the Obama people is to figure out how much help they think the economy needs, then add 50 percent. It’s much better, in a depressed economy, to err on the side of too much stimulus than on the side of too little.

In short, Mr. Obama’s chances of leading a new New Deal depend largely on whether his short-run economic plans are sufficiently bold. Progressives can only hope that he has the necessary audacity.

(I feel so guilty for quoting his entire column, but I can’t help it. I’ve never done that before. It’s wrong. But my excuse will be that you’ll want to go to his page and read the comments, many of which I’m sure will be utterly fascinating.

  • AnninCA

    Interesting. My own take on this is that the Democrats exhausted the New Deal approach. Every good movement does have its end point. So did that one.

    At that point, conservativism gained traction.

    That’s what I like about democracy. It’s a true yin-yang deal.

    We lurch to progress.

    And those who are savvy to that?

    They don’t take the lurches so personally.

    Here’s what Palin says about the election. I personally completely agree with her.

    http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2008/11/10/palin-talks-about-the-prez-race/

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Thank you for this post. Bottom line is who the heck knows what Obama’s going to do. I really don’t think he even knows.

  • etc.

    uh, no.

    I think we should all take a lesson from the economy today, and that of the Great Depression:

    Don’t spend money you don’t have.

    Which is exactly what the govt will be doing if they implement another failed stimulus. Not only will they be spending money they don’t have, they’ll be spending money that taxpayers don’t have.

    If Dems try to tax and spend the way Krugman suggests, you can kiss all those Dem gains goodbye in the upcoming elections of 2010.

  • SantaFeK

    Agree–who knows what BO will do; the momentary expedience will be important, of course, and the opinions of the lobbyists, the same old faces back in the administration, the shockingly inept up to now Congress could become shockingly more inept. Yawn. We need Hope and Change.

  • ONE-PARTY NATION

    HERBERT HOOVER OBAMA!

  • ame

    Keith Olbermann is a putz! Obama’s number one fan, doesn’t even vote. Also, I read that msnbc renewed Olbermann’s contract.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10nqGB-CsSI

  • Cindy

    Great post, Bronwyn.
    I sort of understand why you were smitten by Krugman. The faux “love” of my life was William F. Buckley. He was my polar opposite, politically (until Obama!); however, one of his quotes is a very salient one now: “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

  • Lynda-NoBot

    I hope they dump the jerk. Even if they do I still won’t watch MSNBC. Tweety Bird Tingle Leg and Mad Cow still have to go.

    My real hope is that the network goes off the air.

  • JustMe

    Open thread??

    YES YES YES no Howard Dean once his term runs out at the DNC in Jan~~

    Hell ya!

    Just mentioned on Fox

  • ame

    You don’t think he’ll be part of the Obama administration do you?

  • Lynda-NoBot

    I agree with Palin also. It is amazing they got as far as they did. In reality, no matter what anyone says, she is the biggest reason they did get so far.

    If this wasn’t true why would Obama himself spend so much time demonizing Palin? He recognized that she to could mezmerize the masses.

  • Lynda-NoBot

    Comment by ame | 2008-11-10 15:15:09

    You don’t think he’ll be part of the Obama administration do you?

    AHAHAHAHAHAHA……say it couldn’t happen!!!

  • JustMe

    Well lets hope not… if he at a guess one screech and he will be out !

  • SJ

    Triple blast in Baghdad today guess they must of not got the message that Obama is now President, and he was going to bring peace to that area.

  • Athena the Warrior

    I found this over on Malkin’s blog. Here’s the “Even Before Obama, I Already Knew That I Could”

    Here is the direct link:

    http://www.northstarwriters.com/pi139.htm

    Well worth the time to read.

  • AngryWhitePerson

    Since Obama has never worked a day in his life, or accomplished anything on his own, being President is going to be a rude crude affair. I personally expect him to start mouthing off after a few tiring days, let alone months in the Oval Office.

  • DAB

    The Buckley quote has certainly proven true in this election. The lack of tolerance in liberal circles was absolutely astounding and a real eye-opener for me.

  • AnninCA

    Athena….what a story. Thanks.

    Way cool.

  • Betty Lou

    Yeah, I agree.

  • ame

    Heeeee’s Baaaaack!

    Farrakhan is as divisive as ever.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-farrakhan-10-nov10,0,1503926.story

    ….and who can fogret this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha5HEc-vOJs

  • chris

    You mean, the way he cracked under the stress of a 21-month campaign? Sure you’re right.

  • chris

    Secy. of Health and Human Services.

  • Betty Lou

    Interesting read in the Washington Post, Gov Bobby Jindal said he chose not to be a part of the McCain campaign, fearing the backlash Palin is now having to deal with…

    He saw the campaign as unorganized, directionless…

  • requiredreading

    Well, well, well; Biden’s prophecy may well come true:
    The following have happened in the last 3 days:

    1. Russian and Venezuela have just announced that they will carry out “joint naval exercises” in the Caribbean and Chavez has been screaming “Vive La Russia!” all morning;

    2. Obama has totally thrown Poland under the bus (after the Poles’ concern that Russia will come after them it did Georgia) by claiming that he never said he would continue the missile defense system (the Polish President says Obama assured him that he would continue this);

    3. Obama has managed to do something no one has done before: get the opponents of Iran’s regime to side with Ahmadinejad: apparently Obama’s mixed signals of saying during the campaign that he wants unconditional talks with Iran and then snubbing them after he got Ahmadinejad’s “congratulations on your win” letter, has ticked everybody off and put them on the same page over there. (Sources: NPR “The World” and the BBC).

    That didn’t take long …..

  • DAB

    Never fear, he’s apparently up to the task.
    Drudge features a Meet the Press Video where one of BO’s spokespersons insists that he is “ready to rule from day one.”

    Yes you heard me correctly — RULE — a Freudian slip if ever there was one.

    There’s also a brief article about how some people in Kansas are trying to start a movement to dedicate a national holiday to Obama. Wow — not even President yet and already he’s been deemed “great”.

    I’m sure one such as he will have all the answers to our current dilemma. Don’t ya think???

  • ame

    That was more like a rhetorical question :D

    I believe I already know the answer….you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.

  • requiredreading

    Addendum to point 2: meanwhile, right after Tuesday, the Russians announced they were placing missiles near the border of Poland.

  • ame

    One more arrow in the back for Hillary.

  • AnninCA

    Ahhhh……easy call. The sharks circle.

  • John Smith

    This post only makes sense if you don’t take into account what happened after WWII. Not talking about that is like telling someone that you were up in a poker game 100K and then not mentioning that you ended up no only loosing the 100k that you won but also lost an other 200K before you were done.

    The reason WWII spending worked out is because the rest of the world was devastated and had to buy everything from the factories that were build to supply the troops and the over all war effort which of course were almost all in the US.

    The big difference today is that we don’t hardly make anything anymore so where will the money come from to pay off the huge deficit the government is running up. There is no way to spend our way out of this one. The day will come and it will happen very soon when the US Gov will have to pay drastically higher interest rates at which point it will go bankrupt. The more money BO administration borrows the closer we will come to that day. The correct approach to this problem would have been lower taxes and cut government spending. This article is a very misinformed opinion.

  • AnninCA

    good point

  • georgiapeach

    I doubt that the stress of a campaign is a drop in the bucket compared to the stress of a Presidency. Lives aren’t usually lost if you make bad decisions in a campaign. But it is telling that that is the only comparable experience that you can offer. Obama is like Bush in that the only qualifications that he can tout are successful political campaigns. It’s all uphill from here, though. And even though he’s already running for re-election, people are going to notice if he doesn’t show up for this job.

  • John D

    I also thought the choice of words ‘rule’ speaks volumes.

    Can he rule the market? I am net short US stock since Election Day. Nice money thanks to Emperor-select Barack.

  • Juliet16

    Obama and the Dems know that promising a chicken in every pot worked for FDR, so they will use it as a means to keep getting naive Americans to vote for them in 2012 and beyond. They don’t care if it doesn’t work as advertised.

    This country is screwed. People are not bright enough to do their own research and the MSM will never let them know the truth about policies and candidates. Education stinks — thanks to political correctness and teachers unions which let anything goes in the schools and protects substandard teachers — so what do you expect?

    Also, living within a very permissive system, in which we Americans over-indulge ourselves — no wonder children grow up glued to television and imagaining that all they have to do is pressure authority figures (parents, government, teachers, etc.) to give them whatever they want without having to work hard for it — no wonder pandemonium reigns.

    As long as parents think that throwing more money at school systems will improve the eduacation levels of their children we will continue to fail as a nation.

    Children are growing up under bizarre conditions, basically taking care of themselves and making poor choices. Who knows what the parents are doing? Getting high? No wonder childern grow up to expect everything to be easy and magically appear for them. Then Democrats offer “an easy life, protected by the State” and the sheep-people keep these Dems in office.

    Unless this turns around nothing will change much in the future. Sadly, most (not all, but most) Democrats encourage this manner of living and shut down any complaints as being RACIST or whatever.

    Sorry folks. I don’t see this getting any better soon. Maybe never. Goodbye, USA…

  • John Smith

    Telling everybody what they want to hear and actually doing something is quite different. Reality will catch up with Obama as much as it did with Bush.

  • http://mybluecountry.googlepages.com/whattheobamademocratsaresayingposter Linda

    No surely not. The man who talked about politics of the past and always looking back. He can’t possibly be looking backwards to our accomplishments and AGAIN TRYING TO JUMP ON SOMEONE ELSES COAT TAILS!

  • lark

    Russian and Venezuela have just announced that they will carry out “joint naval exercises” in the Caribbean

    They going to practice by landing in Ponce and taking over the southern half of Puerto Rico in a mock exercise that will include bombing the Ponce Airport. After that Russia will repair all the damages and Chavez will build an Oil Refinery in Peñuelas.

    Obama won’t even notice.

  • R2D2

    Today is not yesterday, and Obama is no FDR. Although there are some similarities between the 30s and today (blonds are similar too), the medicine cannot be the same. Despite the problems FDR faced in the 30s, he did not face a government and a consumer in debt up to the eyeballs. FDR had options that are not available to Obama.

    Obama is not a visionary or an aggressive leader to find solutions that will solve a much more complex economy. I’m betting it won’t happen because Obama does not have what it takes to accomplish (has he ever?) anything.

  • AnninCA

    I agree, unfortunately.

    But I still can hope.

    Maybe he takes good advice?

  • Patience

    Great article — thanks for the link!

  • ame

    Yes, it’s definitely worthwhile to read. It’s very upsetting to me that I’m unable to support “history in the making” aka Obama due to his past. Unlike many, I don’t believe that Obama’s behavior and idiology can be washed away within a few months for the sake of convenience-in order to make history.

  • John Smith

    I guess this is even true with companies such as GM. They want to be bailed out because their business model sucks and did not want to make the hard or wise choices 10 years ago. So I guess every company should strive for getting as big as possible and then they can do what ever they want because the government will come and bail them out. I wish I could live like that.

  • John Smith

    From who? Its not like he is known to surround him self with great people

  • lark

    True, besides he’s been trained in the anarchism of Ayers and the radicalism of Alinky. So all his hesitations will work in his favor, chaos, blame Congress. One thing he will exceed in talent and execution, re-writing the Constitution with the aid of community organizations such as ACORN.

  • bert

    You are closer to the truth with Hoover than Krugman is with Roosevelt.

  • Betty Lou

    FDR, like B Franklin, helped define and direct the greater American political theory, political direction, helping, I think, in terms of advancing the stability of the American government, insuring it’s ultimate strategic success.

    ( I don’t mean to sound rah rah nationalistic, here, the US is truly a great nation, in a short time the success of it’s cultural contributions phenomenal. I think very few of us understand what it takes to LEAD and MANAGE a nation of this magnitude, enriching it culturally, intellectually and monetarily.)

    Sometimes, when I think about it, I’m left in awe.

    And when the politicans and business people screw up, as with AIG, as with the war, well, that’s our responsibility, too, and if we want to continue to grow, we have to figure out why, and correct it.

    The crisis we are facing now will call for new measures, some unique to the situation, this is the innovation and problem solving skill the US is known for, but it will not happen under the corrupt Obama, the corrupt Congress.

  • ame

    The funny part about this election is that many people supported Obama as a referendum on the Bush administration. Personally, I see many similarities between Obama and Bush.

    Both like to RULE

    Both support big government

    Both are into controlling the media

    Both have speech issues…Obama isn’t such a great orator as the media suggests…he studders.

  • bert

    WOW!!! How inspiring. I have teras in my eyes. Plus I was cheering out loud for him. This is the American Dream I grew up with. This is the American Dream I believe in. I pray an Obama Presidency will not do away with that dream and that we can make that dream stronger and a reality once again in America.

  • nayak

    It’s so delicious to watch bigots like Malkin and Coulter implode. It looks like Obama is going to be even more dismissive of these two feminazis than Bill Clinton was. It’s hard to decide what is worse, their irrelevance or their stupidity!

    In the meanwhile get ready for the finest inaugural address since 1960, on Jan.20/09. America thought long and hard and decided it did not want anything to do with a President in the making who makes Reagan and Bush look intellectual. So now this SP is wailing about the Bush admin? I though she had the “real America” parts of the land covered, like Guilford Co. NC, where she made that infamous statement, and where Obama trounced her ticket by 17% Ouch! What next Palin-Plumber 2012? That would be a non-stop comedy!!!

  • Cindy

    DAB— you’re exactly right…..a real eye-opener, indeed. That’s when I realized how Buckley’s quote rang all too true! He had already passed away by that time, but it would’ve been nice if I could have written to him about it.

  • J.J. (The Puma)

    It did go off the air……..at least at my house.

  • AnninCA

    Hear! Hear!

    I got over being a masochist in my 30′s. *heh*

  • Betty Lou

    In the meanwhile get ready for the finest inaugural address since 1960, on Jan.20/09.
    ——–

    Brilliant satirist.

    Swift, right?

    He’s my favorite, too.

  • AnninCA

    You could be right, but I doubt it. The office is in a cocoon, to prevent that.

    Now, Bill, exploded sexually. Bush exploded with Iraq.

    So I would suggest: Look for the explosion.

    Why?

    He won on repressing himself.

    I think, personally, until we see someone win on expressing themselves, we’ll get repressed presidents who explode on us.

    Boy, now this is a psychobabble post. LOL*

  • J.J. (The Puma)

    Why stop at one holiday. Surely his birthday should be included, along with the immaculate conception of his mother.

  • ame

    No can do….Obama would have to provide his vaulted birth certificate in order to proceed and he’s unwilling to do so. ;-)

  • http://mybluecountry.googlepages.com/whattheobamademocratsaresayingposter Linda

    oh no, he was projecting when he talked about
    Nancy and seances.

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Oh wasn’t Buckley right. Great quote.

  • cookiegramma

    The improvement actually began before the wr, and for the same reason. other nations were purchasing our munitions. I see real irony thatFranks is saying that the military should be cut by 25%. It is almost certain that this expenditure cut would include military Manufacturing as well. One the other hand there is also talk about reinstating the draft. I really don’t think that anyone in the Democratic party has actually sat down and talked about goals and issues. This is not surprising since Obama did not like to be explicit in any of his proposals. What all this shows is that my husband might be right, he said that a democratic congress would be too busy arguing in house to achieve anything. I think that if it were not for the fact that the actions they take affact all the people this would be very humorous to watch.

  • cookiegramma

    Is he having the same speech writers for that too? Oh God I wish I could find ghost writers the way he did and still does. Too bad, that Tuesday is the day I am scheduled to clean my basement. I will have to miss the plagarism he favors when public speaking.

  • cookiegramma

    I was thinking my favorite Oscar Wilde.

  • EightBelles

    Lest we forget, those who hold elected office, even the highest office in the land, work for us. And of late they haven’t been doing such a great job. True, there are exceptions, but by and large, the Reids, Pelosis, Franks and others of their kind, aren’t doing America any favors. We, the people of America, who have “hired” these members of elected office to make our country a better place to live in, are being let down. If elected officials aren’t doing their job, they should be ousted one by one.

    There’s a website called FreedomMarch.org whose members are organizing a protest march against the debacle of an election in 2008. You might want to check it out. Let our voices be heard loud and clear.

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    and mine too. Can’t stand Herr Olberude. Will look forward to the day when the channel is replaced…maybe another DIY channel to keep us busy for the next four years.

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    Yes, thanks for the link. Included in same:

    Sherri Shepherd, a black co-host of the TV show The View, summarized the refrain we have heard hundreds of times since November 4: “We’ve always been people of color. We’ve always had these limitations on us . . . And so to look at my son and say no limitations on you . . . to look at my baby and go, you don’t have to have limitations . . .”

    I do think it’s a bit disingenuous of people who have achieved success to claim that they’ve had all these limitations. Sherri Shepherd, with no talent that I’ve ever been able to see, is on a national TV show; paid well, I assume. Was that affirmative action? Or did she just have no limitations? Whoopi at least has a bit of talent even with her victim attitude. Get over it girls. You had already arrived.

  • http://truthisgold.blogspot.com/ truthisgold

    Anninca, You are right! What kind of disaster this fool will precipitate, god only knows. One can only hope it’s a personal one rather than something that brings all of us down even farther than we are already.

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wake me when nayak leaves to clock out.

  • http://deleted Buzz Latte

    Either this wallpaper goes or I do.

    Oscar Wilde

  • Athena the Warrior

    This makes me wonder if McCain was possibly sabotaged by the Romney staffers he added to his campaign. By deliberately helping McCain lose and post election attacking Palin, they clear the way for a smooth Romney run in 2012 (or so they think!)

  • NYU

    Since Obama has never worked a day in his life, or accomplished anything on his own, being President is going to be a rude crude affair. I personally expect him to start mouthing off after a few tiring days, let alone months in the Oval Office.

    I don’t know why but watching the videos from the visit of the Obamas to the White House, I started feeling sorry for the President-Elect. It is a very strange feeling… And the first lady to be will have to work hard to learn how to behave as such. She kept touching her hair and looked out of place. I think she just got a haircut. I also think BHO has lost a lot of weight and looks cadaveric (is that an English word?)…

  • oowawa

    Uhhhh–Surgeon General? Think Dean might want that?

  • witness08

    I’ve just discovered that my email address has been hijacked. In my spamblocker I discovered spam sent to me from my own email address. What was really distressing was that one of them was titled “Cindy McCain’s shame”.
    I don’t open attachments on emails but I have been on all kinds of sites in the last months due to this election.
    Just a warning to you all to be careful with downloads and to have an internet security system installed on your computer.

  • bemused

    Those who continue to insist that they are limited, in spite of objective evidence to the contrary, are acting like people who are clinically depressed and can’t find any joy or hope in life. Several AA posters here have remarked that there is a hole or a sadness in their identity. The fear that it couldn’t be O’s blackness that spoke to his supporters, it must have been his whiteness, was the last dismaying straw on election night. This inner conviction of defeat seems to me the root problem that ought to be addressed seriously, or no other program will ever be successful. There will never be enough pie to fill such a hole.

  • NYC

    Same happened to me with my Yahoo account and the email I received from my own address went to my Inbox. Didn’t open it and I reported immediately to Yahoo and that was it. Didn’t happen again so far.

  • ThereseJDanielsson

    Not even a week after the president election the blond topblogger from Sweden, Linda Ekholm speaks out loud about Obama!
    And I really believe this is truly written by heart. Scary!

    http://www.finest.se/userBlog/?uid=30701&beid=1040511

  • Northwest rain

    Obama could NOT even lead a discussion when he was called back to DC — the meeting ended in chaos — which is what O-blahblah is — Mr. Chaos. If he doesn’t have the ability to facilitate a discussion in an economic crisis — the is no way in hell he will be able to listen to divergent views when he gets the keys to the “white house”. (I don’t know what to call it anymore — since I’m sure Mrs. O will have the place repainted — probably RED and black.)

    He is another bush — his twin in fact. Bush couldn’t have strong, smart opinionated people around him — he had to have fawning, ass kissers.

    So yes that’s why camp O has indicated that they will continue in the campaign mode — because that is ALL the hell the O can do.

    I really do NOT believe in god — there is no god —

    OR — has anyone considered that the reason the hard right religious wing nuts did not vote is because they wanted Obama to be Pres — because the anti-christ (Obama) will bring about Armageddon and the end of the world???

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