On Voting For Women … And Palin

Editor’s Note: Special thanks to Linda for volunteering to prepare this interesting discussion for your reading.

Regular readers know that the writers under Larry Johnson’s No Quarter banner are a diverse group, from a variety of backgrounds, who came together in passionate support of Hillary Clinton during the 2008 presidential election — and NEVER joined the “Hope and Change” bandwagon.

While our unity and support for Hillary in 2008 brought us together, we are far from succumbing to group think.  We each have strong opinions on issues both inside and outside of politics that are very much our own.  So it is not surprising that we tend to have lively email discussions on our writers’ group.  At times, those discussions get heated.  But I think, even then, we all wind up learning something and broadening our perspective.

Occasionally the topic and discussion evolve in a way that lends itself to sharing with NQ readers with the hope of continuing the dialogue.  So here is a slightly edited version (with the permission of all authors involved) of a recent conversation:

Writer 1:

…I think it’s just as wrong for women to vote for a candidate just because she’s female as it is for black voters to vote for a candidate just because he/she is black.  …It’s a whole different subject for a post, and I don’t know if I have the right to go there.  I wish one of the female writers would, though.

Writer 2:

… to assume that any of the women, or all of them, that like Palin only like her because she’s a woman. We like her because she’s smart, capable, and has been mercilessly maligned for being a strong, capable woman. She’s the epitome of what many of us want in a candidate…one who will hold both parties to task.

Writer 1:

…In 2008, I watched as Hillary supporters switched in droves to Sarah, even though their political beliefs were nearly opposite each other.  I don’t think it’s sexist to form an opinion that some of those women were supporting Sarah mostly because of her gender.  I never said or implied that it was all of those women.

I know you and many women support Sarah for her qualifications.  You think she’s the best candidate to beat Obama.  I don’t.  That doesn’t make me sexist either.

Writer 2:

I think you misunderstood why many of those Hillary supporters flipped to Sarah even though Sarah is ideologically different than Hillary…many of us flipped because we had been dismissed, insulted, bullied, and abused by Obamacrats and thuggish obots. The phrase “never again” came to my mind more than once during the campaign. Standing up for women is a radical act that requires radical action. If the party you’ve devoted all of your energy and lifeblood to betrays you and abuses you than you must, for the sake of your soul, reject it and all the ways in which it continues to denigrate women or a woman. I wish more men who were for Hillary would be as radical.

Writer 3:

To me and I would hope for many others, Hillary’s gender was and is immaterial, she was and still is by far the best candidate for the office – which is why I supported her. And while I decry the despicable way that Sarah Palin has been and continues to be treated by the press, I would be hard pressed to support her because of her political positions not because she is a woman. In fact, I liked her a lot more when she first started out and am disappointed in her political development as she has swung ever more to the right.

I and any other man you really want to support women candidates will do so because we think they are the best person for the job, regardless of gender. To do otherwise would be to fall into the same trap as the unfortunate black voters and especially the black women voters in 2008 who voted for Obama because he was black – to their sorrow and their shame.

Writer 2:

My point was to clarify that many (or most) democratic former Hillary supporters weren’t supporting Palin because she was a woman, but instead because the Democratic Party had abused them. It’s healthy to walk away from an organization that asks for money and support while simultaneously acting to harm, belittle and betray the members that are providing that support. It’s not about supporting Palin because she’s a woman, it’s about asserting that we won’t take it any more.

I don’t expect men to stand up and fight against the abuse of women. But, I will stand up if Palin supporters are described as mindless voters who are voting on the basis of gender alone. Frankly, anyone who says that that’s the reason former democrats support Palin don’t know what they’re talking about. That is so not what is motivating the majority of former democratic women, now Palin supporters, that I know…

… I wouldn’t declare that black women voters are more responsible for Obama than black male voters, nor would I conclude that it’s to their sorrow that they voted.

Writer 3:

…I do and will continue to stand up and fight against the abuse of women, it is my honor to do so (I expect Writer 1 does as well)

Writer 4:

… I didn’t support Hillary because she was a woman, but because she was by far and wide the BEST candidate out there. That she was a woman, and potentially our first woman president, was no small thing, though.

Women are constantly forced to take a back seat to men, even in terms of talking abt wanting a woman president. We aren’t supposed to want her JUST because she is a woman. Meanwhile, it is fine and dandy for a host of people to want Obama simply because he is biracial. It is a double standard that continues.

… I do think men have a responsibility to fight against the abuse of women. …Men need to stand up, too. And not in the liberal way we’ve seen where they give lip service to women’s rights, then turn around and call Hillary, Sarah, Michelle, you name it, the most misogynistic slurs. No, I mean real support.

2008 was eye opening in so many ways as to the level of misogyny and sexism in this country, how women still allow ourselves to be subjugated. Just yesterday, US Women’s National team player, Abby Wambach, referred to the number of women on the field as men several times – there was not one man on that pitch, not one. They, and the commentators, frequently use exclusive language to talk abt the play on the pitch. It is incredibly discouraging to hear them say these things, then talk abt being role models to girls. Well, yes, in terms of athletic ability, but not when marketing themselves as essentially “men lite.” Sigh.

Writer 5:

I ABSOLUTELY agree that no man or woman should vote for the leader of the free world on the basis of their plumbing.  That will kick us further down the slippery slope we are already on.  (Many of my friends voted for a “black man” for President.  If it had been Cory Booker or Michael Nutter, that would have been acceptable because there would be substance as well.  But these friends got us into the mess we are in.  As my husband is fond of saying, “It’s all the voters fault, not Obama’s.”)

And while I deplore the pure sexism that was exhibited against Hillary, Sarah Palin, and Michelle Bachman, ONLY Hillary in my estimation is qualified for the job.  And it had nothing to do with her sex.  (I was a Wes Clark supporter until he decided not to run again.)

Yet the sexism was and still is deplorable.  It should be hit every time it raises it’s ugly head.   And it’s hard—I have to do it almost every day, and defending women who I believe to be totally unworthy for high office is awkward.  But I do it anyway, pointing out that a productive discussion would be focused on qualifications and stands on policies.  Then we have a good conversation.

One of my very best friends—one I love unconditionally—is a single issue voter.  Pro-life.  They could run Genghis Kahn, and if he was against abortion she would vote for him.  Single issue voters are dangerous because everything else is ignored or rationalized away.  And the “everything else” includes almost everything else.  Too many Obama voters were one issue.  I knew almost no one who was voting for Hillary just because she was a woman.  It was frosting on a very fine cake for most of us.

My 2 cents.

I believe everyone at NQ is on the right side of every issue having to do with women.  And gay men as well.  We just disagree about specific ways to protest and support.

Writer 6:

I like the way you put it …  I want the icing on the cake.  I want to celebrate the advancement of women.  Not just because it is my team, but because I desperately think that women, not “men lite”, have a whole different set of priorities and concerns and see different avenues to achieve them and resolve conflicts.

We [as a society] have organized and institutionalized everything including our thoughts to be man like.  Enough already.  Life isn’t all about power and control and winning.  And I definitely don’t hate men or think they are stupid.  I just don’t think they have all the answers.  And as a society we need to stop making them the end all and be all of everything.

I can’t vote for a woman just because she is a women.  And “Men Lite” won’t do it.  Its not just a competency issue for me.  Though Hillary has it in spades.  Hillary is about the only one that I really thought was capable of breaking free and changing the direction of this country.

I hope I am wrong, but right now it feels as if Palin was pulled into the national stage [as VP] too early.  She was doing all the right things, and I believe [in] the strength of her values and the sincerity of her commitment.  But she needed stronger support before she went national.  It was too easy for the powers that be, and I’m not just talking party, to mow her down.  And they will keep mowing her down.

The money interest (men again) have too much at stake to allow a rebel or a game changer.  And that is why Hillary didn’t win.  It wasn’t because she was a woman, that was just the easiest tool for them to use.  The only thing that is going to win [this election] is another Obama or Bush II – someone (male or female) who is personally weak and can be controlled by corporate[ist] power.

That is how cynical my 2 cents has become.

Writer 2:

Personally, I think there’s a big misunderstanding in the media, and perhaps in both parties, about what the Tea Party really is about, and the level of outrage among women.  Polls and pundits didn’t adapt to the mid-terms. They’re continuing to speak in 2008 terms, but, I believe, something much different is going on. From my perspective as a fierce Hillary supporter and former Democrat, it’s really interesting.

I have no problem standing up for Bachmann or Palin. They are both smart, strong leaders with conviction. I admire that. From where I stand Dems and the media tried to mow Palin down but they didn’t succeed. Liberals hate her, but so what? She seems to be doing quite well without even declaring. I think she could be waiting to see how Bachmann does in IA and NH…and if Bachmann doesn’t have momentum and doesn’t look like she’s going to win, I think Palin could enter the race late (and Bachmann would withdraw.) Palin would pull a Guiliani only it would be successful. That’s one of the things I love about Palin…she does things her way.

… Palin came on the scene, no one knew her, and she spoke with a voice and from a point of view that many Americans were energized by. She’s a real political force. Not because she’s pretty, or a woman…but because she speaks to the hearts of Americans. And, she’s quite capable, far more capable than Obama, to govern the nation.

Writer 4:

As for Palin, there is such a damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t attitude abt her. She is ridiculed for not fulfilling her term, yet she was unable to fulfill her obligations to the state as a result of the numerous, frivolous lawsuits filed against her. Had she stayed, she would have been excoriated for wasting the state’s time and money. A no-win for her that was clearly the point of the DNC.

What other governor has EVER had to deal with that kind of assault? None of whom I can think. Yet she keeps on going. It is precisely because of her character that people like her, not just that she’s a woman. But let’s be honest – being a woman is part and parcel of who she is and how she sees things. How could it NOT be?

… women see things differently. We solve problems differently. Rather than us being forced to mimic how men do it (and look where THAT has gotten the country), left to our own devices and MO, things might be a whole lot different right now. IMHO, that is.

—-

Now it is your turn.

Do you want or expect something different from a woman candidate?

Do you wish there were more women running for president?

And what about Sarah Palin?

Share your thoughts!