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A Mating Dance, But Not For Us

* Bumped Up *

The invitation said eight o’clock, but the doors don’t open until well after ten.  Music and laughter is in full swing.  It wafts out to us as we wait in the rain.  We enter the ballroom, cold and wet, but with our heads held high.  Our designated seats are in a corner far removed from the action on the ballroom floor.  We pretend it doesn’t matter.

Politicians dance by in a blur of colors and lights.  Most are shielded from view by a wall of pundits who feverishly describe the glittering mirrored ball overhead while loudly arguing the merits of various champagnes.  We eagerly watch and wait, but no politician swoops in to court us or lead us onto the dance floor.  The most we get is a cheerful wave from across the room.

We try not to worry about the millions of lost jobs, homes, and financial stability.  But we know our history.  Whenever we citizens aren’t married to a champion or even a helpmate in our government, the burdens of the future falls heaviest on us.  That is that future we fear, yet we are not quitters.

So we dutifully attend each election dance.  Dressing in our best party clothes.  Seeking the familiar through our party glasses and taking comfort from its rosy hue.  Ever hopeful of finding that special one.  Ever hopeful that this time our love of country will be reciprocated.  Secretly dreaming of a white knight who will ride in and save us.

Too soon the midnight hour is struck.  The music stops.  The pundits fade away.  For the first time we step onto the dance floor, but it is empty.  No politicians remain.  And the cold reality of our fear slowly seeps into our hearts and heads.

The party is over and we are all alone.

In his recent editorial, The real deal on the debt debate, Joe Scarborough points out that congress isn’t being honest with the American people.  But in his list of truths, Scarborough leaves the biggest, most important point buried in the middle and hardly discussed.  And yet, this one truth is precisely why all the other points exist.  It is the reason why all this dancing is required.  It is why the American people will never win.

Both parties and Obama want to must keep Wall Street happy.

That is what the debit ceiling dance is about.  It is what all our political dances have become — efforts to keep Wall Streeters and Corporatist happy.  Of course that is no easy task.  They are a fickle, greedy group with no real loyalties.  Just piles of money to buy political power.  So the Democrats, the Republicans, and the president must ever dance to prove their worth and worthiness.

There is no dancing for us, though.  We stop being viewed as potential mates for either party long ago.  We are now the bait.  We are the red meat being staked out to feed the real mates of our parties and candidates – the Wall Street and Corporatist wolves.  Our current debt ceiling debate is just another mating dance to establish who — which party, what candidates — are best able to serve up their read meat constituents to their hungry wolf contributors.

Our government is dancing for the wolves.  And it is the wolves with whom they go home.

Just read the J.P. Morgan’s Eye on the Market report for July 11, 2011:

profit margins have reached levels not seen in decades

… S&P 500 profit margins increased by ~1.3% from 2000 to 2007.

… reductions in wages and benefits explain the majority of the net improvement in margins.

… US labor compensation is now at a 50-year low relative to both company sales and US GDP(see EoTM April 26, 2011).

labor compensation is now firmly negative in real terms.

If Main Street Consumers were still the critical factor in the American economy and our body politic, how do we explain this transfer of wealth which started well before the recession, well before the crash of the housing market, and well before unemployment reaching 9%? How do we explain that jobs, the life blood of Main Street America, have yet to be addressed in any serious way?  Why do we hold to account greedy labor and union benefits, but not greedy corporatist and greedy financiers?

… lingering excess labor supply from the recession is one reason, but the 2 billion people in Asia joining the global labor force over the last two decades is another. … EM [emerging market] wages for production workers remain well below US levels3.   Another factor helping profit margins: increased US imports of intermediate goods from Asia.

A race to the bottom with wages won’t fix this.  The Philippines have only now reached a whopping 5% of US hourly production wages.  We need to create a manufacturing base in the US and develop a plan and an industry to lead us into the future.  But is anyone talking of a plan?

And what about the debt ceiling debate.  Again, according to the J.P. Morgan report, this is ‘what we know for sure about the US Federal debt ceiling debate’:

The government has already run out of money from traditional sources.

since May 16, 2011, the US Treasury has been raiding the cash, securities and borrowing capacity of government employee retirement and other funds.

Of $270 billion of such balances which existed in May, around 75% has already been used up.

… the present value of unfunded entitlement obligations (e.g., future debt) dwarfs the existing debt. That’s why there’s so much talk about a deal to stabilize the long term trajectory of the budget deficit.

In whose interest was it to ignore our debt and deficit problem until our government emptied every last bit of taxpayer money out of the coffers?  Could it be the bankers, foreign governments and industries that were fed the 13 – 14 trillion by our government through bailouts and guarantees?  Could it be the military industrial complex, FIRE (finance, insurance and real estate), oil and auto industries who benefit from generous tax breaks, protected status and how we calculate GDP?

Seriously, do you see the American people as the winners here?

And if you are wondering what the J.P. Morgan report predicted for how the debt ceiling dance is going to end?

… We believe that the deal will be composed of 80% spending cuts and 20% revenue/tax increases (rather than 50-50), and will be closer to $2 trillion than $4 trillion.

Yes, Wall Street and the Corporatist will win again.  They always do.

But when do we stop going to the parties expecting to dance?

  • Jrterrier

    be still my heart.  the Pres is going to go on teevee and talk to the nation . . . AGAIN. 

    unless he is going to announce that the Congress has passed a bill that raises the debt limit in whatever form, he should just stay off the tv.  Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and
    remove all doubt.

    • Anonymous

      He’s going to announce that Osama Bin Laden is still dead.

      • Ferd_Berfle

        A little Chevy-Chase humor, perhaps? Oh, that’s really funny, HARP. ROFLMAO.

    • Anonymous

      Preview of speech…..

    • Anonymous

      I wish there were a mechanism to boo back over the TV…that is, if I were going to tune into his balogna

      • Betty

        I gosh I wish there was a way to boo him in real time!  
        Guess I will just email the WH with BOO! as the subject.

    • Anonymous

      -
      Breaking News!

      President Obama will
      address the nation at
      9 p.m. ET

      CNN

      • Anonymous

        Oh dang, we gotta go mow the lawn…
        Sorry, BarryO  no time to listen to whiners tonight.

        • Ferd_Berfle

          Oh dang, we gotta go mow the lawn…
          ===============
          On the bright side, it has to be less torturous than being visually and verbally waterboarded by That One.

        • Anonymous

          I believe there will be a lot of shampooing going on tonight.

          • Anonymous

            Not to worry, I was gonna watch SyFy anyway.

            Eureka is as much fantasy as any of Oblahblah speechs as is Warehouse 13.

      • Ferd_Berfle

        I’ll wait for the highlights at 11. That should be only about 10 seconds of my life wasted. On the other hand, I will watch the Republican’s response, if there is one.

  • Anonymous

    MRC President Brent Bozell Demands the Liberal Media Tell the Truth of
    How the Public Views the Debt Ceiling and a Balanced Budget Amendment

    ALEXANDRIA, VA – A Media Research Center analysis
    of how NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN are covering the endless polling regarding
    the debt ceiling debate finds that the networks are ignoring the
    public’s opposition to an increased debt ceiling – even when it’s
    documented by their own polls.

    CBS’s poll showed that 49% of the public opposes raising the debt ceiling, and NBC’s poll showed 43%. But neither network reported these findings.  ABC
    neither asked this question nor reported on the public opinion of
    raising the debt ceiling, instead focusing their coverage on blaming
    Republicans for potential economic trouble.

    CNN on-air hosts talk endlessly about their polls.  Incredibly they adamantly refused
    to report their own polling which finds 66% of Americans support the
    House GOP’s ‘Cut, Cap and Balance’ plan and that 74% support a balanced
    budget amendment to the Constitution.

    “The media’s unwillingness to
    release all the facts concerning this issue is nothing short of
    censorship.  In their enthusiasm as cheerleaders for this President, the
    media are deliberately hiding and distorting the truth to further their
    own ideologically driven, leftist agenda.    “These so-called ‘news’ outlets are ignoring the voice of the American people.“It is a tragedy that we even have to demand this: Tell the truth, the whole truth. Report the news.”

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/releases/2011/20110725010131.aspx

    • nqisfun

      HARP2,

      A couple of questions for you:

      How would a balanced budget amendment work in time of war or during economic downturns?

      The Republicans just voted for the Ryan budget which will increase the deficit by $6 trillion over the next 10 years. Table S-1 in Ryan’s plan shows that the debt held by the public would increase from $10 trillion to $16 trillion from 2011 to 2021. The Ryan budget would likely require several debt ceiling raises. The Republicans have now voted for Cut, Cap and Balance, which will put in a balanced budget amendment. So how will that work? Does not the Ryan budget run in exactly the opposite direction to a balance budget ammendment?

      Here are a couple of polls for you:

      “People Still Support Higher Taxes to Reduce the Deficit by a 2-to-1 Margin”

      http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/2322/people-still-support-higher-taxes-reduce-deficit-2-1-margin

      • Anonymous

        As I understand the balanced budget, there are provisions in the bill for disasters and war.

        • nqisfun

          HARP2,

          Once you start making all of the exceptions for disasters and war, where does it stop? These balanced budget amendments are impossible to write.

          What about recessions and big economic downturns when tax revenues dry-up like they have seen in the last 3 years causing an exploding deficit?

          Are we then suppose to massively cut government spending to meet downturns in the economy and the corresponding decline in tax dollars to meet the balanced budget amendment? Will this not result in a further deeper economic downturn? Will a balanced budget amendment not just increase economic uncertainty and volatility?

          How about the 18% cap in debt per GDP in the bill? How will that work? We are currently at about 23%. You do know that to get to that 18% that will require massive cuts in Social Security and Medicare, particularly if you do not touch defense spending, as they do not do in their bill. Are you prepared for those massive cuts, particularly given the bulge in the retirement population that will occur over the next few years as the baby-boomers retire and they need more not less Social Security and Medicare?

          And also, as I mention above, what about the Ryan budget? How the hell will the GOP get to 18% of GDP and put in a balanced budget ammendment when their own Ryan budget will massively increase the debt, keep deficit high and require debt cap rises in its first 10 years? They admit the increase in the debt in their own report and analysis. So how can the GOP vote for Cut, Cap and Balance when their own Ryan budget will not even meet its requirements?

          • Anonymous

            The Income Tax was enacted in 1862. It was removed in 1872, returned in
            1894. In 1895 it was determined it was unconstitutional by the Supreme
            Courts. It was finally enacted with the 16th Amendment in 1913.

            I wonder how the country existed before this?

            • nqisfun

              You do not answer any of my questions. I do not think you have the answers. You are blinding supporting a piece of legislation, which you have no idea what it truly means or what it will do.

              Cut, Cap and Balance is a farse and not based on reality. It is not even based on the reality of the Republican’s own Ryan budget.

            • Ferd_Berfle

              Cut, Cap and Balance is a farse
              ==============
              Did you mean Farsi or farce? Either is appropriate in the context of your comments on NQ.

          • Anonymous

            Why is a balanced budget pledge coming from Republicans outrageous, yet Democrats hail Clinton as a fiscal hero for doing the same thing ?

            • Anonymous

              nqisfun….. My suggestion to you is to quit worrying about things you know nothing about and find a reputable tutor. Maybe then you will learn correct spelling and grammar.

            • Anonymous

              Or in other words, spending yourself until you end up with a Greek style-third world crises on program spending levels that are completely unsustainable is being “smart” and “balanced” and “rational”, but proposing to getting your financial house in order is “extreme” and “dangerous”.

            • Anonymous

              Or also in other words, the family that budgets accordingly, makes tough choices and attempts to pay down or off the credit cards is “irresponsible”, but the family that lives well beyond their means and hopes the credit card doesn’t get shut off is being “responsible”. That’s the idiot world of the Dems…

            • Ferd_Berfle

              Or in other words, spending yourself until you end up with a Greek
              style-third world crises on program spending levels that are completely
              unsustainable
              ===============
              Well, That One does seem to like things Greek–columns at his coronation, massive government debt, and socialism, so we may very well end up like them.

            • nqisfun

              Actually, the 1995 Balanced Budget Amendment was not a Clinton idea. It was part of Gingrich’s contract with America and it failed to get the votes.

              The Democrats killed it. The Republicans wanted to use the Social Security Trust Fund to balance the budget, so the Democrats killed it.

              http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-03/news/mn-38285_1_balanced-budget-amendment

              “After the amendment’s defeat, Clinton said a constitutional measure was not necessary to reduce the deficit and offered to work with Congress “to make further reductions in the deficit.”

      • Ferd_Berfle

        “People Still Support Higher Taxes to Reduce the Deficit by a 2-to-1 Margin”
        =============
        If you want to give to the world’s largest and worst run charity, the US government, YOU write out a check to the Treasury and do so often.

        You won’t because you’re a taker.

        I pay more than enough and would prefer that the budget be returned to pre-2008 spending levels as a minimum.

        • nqisfun

          If I need to make the sacrifice, I am fully prepared to pay more taxes. I will probably be paying for people like you to keep you in your social security and medicare.

          • Ferd_Berfle

            I will probably be paying for people like you to keep you in your social security and medicare.
            =============
            You won’t be paying for mine, useless.I don’t plan on retiring as I enjoy the work I do.

            • nqisfun

              I don’t think you understand “your money”. There is not enough of it left to pay you everything you are entitled to, so either we pay more to get you 100% of your money or we give you less. I am willing to pay more to support to social security and medicare through the bump in the population.

            • Ferd_Berfle

              I don’t think you understand “your money”. There is not enough of it
              left to pay you everything you are entitled to, so either we pay more to
              get you 100% of your money or we give you less.
              ==============
              You can’t read or don’t understand what you do read. I don’t plan on retiring. Get it?

              I know I will never see any of the money I put in because neocons (who aren’t new and aren’t conservative) and retrogressives like you have alowed the system to be rifled for expensive programs such as pet “wars” on both extremes of the political spectrum (e.g., the “war” on poverty, which will never be won, the “war” on drugs, which will never be won, and the “war” on terrorism, which may never be won because of the left’s hand-wringing). Those are just three glaring examples of waste.

              Thanks for spending American’s hard-earned money on crap that yields no return on investment.

              At least FDR, bless his progressive little heart, did leave us a lot of improved infrastructure. That One–not so much except a lot of hot air and an enormous bill to pay.

    • Anonymous

      Censorship is alive and well at Jake Tapper/ABC.

  • Anonymous

    MRC President Brent Bozell Demands the Liberal Media Tell the Truth of
    How the Public Views the Debt Ceiling and a Balanced Budget Amendment

    ALEXANDRIA, VA – A Media Research Center analysis
    of how NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN are covering the endless polling regarding
    the debt ceiling debate finds that the networks are ignoring the
    public’s opposition to an increased debt ceiling – even when it’s
    documented by their own polls.

    CBS’s poll showed that 49% of the public opposes raising the debt ceiling, and NBC’s poll showed 43%. But neither network reported these findings.  ABC
    neither asked this question nor reported on the public opinion of
    raising the debt ceiling, instead focusing their coverage on blaming
    Republicans for potential economic trouble.

    CNN on-air hosts talk endlessly about their polls.  Incredibly they adamantly refused
    to report their own polling which finds 66% of Americans support the
    House GOP’s ‘Cut, Cap and Balance’ plan and that 74% support a balanced
    budget amendment to the Constitution.

    “The media’s unwillingness to
    release all the facts concerning this issue is nothing short of
    censorship.  In their enthusiasm as cheerleaders for this President, the
    media are deliberately hiding and distorting the truth to further their
    own ideologically driven, leftist agenda.    “These so-called ‘news’ outlets are ignoring the voice of the American people.“It is a tragedy that we even have to demand this: Tell the truth, the whole truth. Report the news.”

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/releases/2011/20110725010131.aspx

  • Anonymous

    MRC President Brent Bozell Demands the Liberal Media Tell the Truth of
    How the Public Views the Debt Ceiling and a Balanced Budget Amendment

    ALEXANDRIA, VA – A Media Research Center analysis
    of how NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN are covering the endless polling regarding
    the debt ceiling debate finds that the networks are ignoring the
    public’s opposition to an increased debt ceiling – even when it’s
    documented by their own polls.

    CBS’s poll showed that 49% of the public opposes raising the debt ceiling, and NBC’s poll showed 43%. But neither network reported these findings.  ABC
    neither asked this question nor reported on the public opinion of
    raising the debt ceiling, instead focusing their coverage on blaming
    Republicans for potential economic trouble.

    CNN on-air hosts talk endlessly about their polls.  Incredibly they adamantly refused
    to report their own polling which finds 66% of Americans support the
    House GOP’s ‘Cut, Cap and Balance’ plan and that 74% support a balanced
    budget amendment to the Constitution.

    “The media’s unwillingness to
    release all the facts concerning this issue is nothing short of
    censorship.  In their enthusiasm as cheerleaders for this President, the
    media are deliberately hiding and distorting the truth to further their
    own ideologically driven, leftist agenda.    “These so-called ‘news’ outlets are ignoring the voice of the American people.“It is a tragedy that we even have to demand this: Tell the truth, the whole truth. Report the news.”

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/releases/2011/20110725010131.aspx

  • Anonymous

    Oblahblah’s got to save face since his true intent has been outed by the GOP.
    He’s all about himself and the election.  He doesn’t care about the country.  True or not (of course it’s true) it’s a strong message that Obama is disingenuous and a power monger.

    -21 on Rasmussen Reports Presidential performance poll for two days now.  It looks as if people are starting to figure that out.

    • Ferd_Berfle

      It looks as if people are starting to figure that out.
      ======================
      That’s why the trolls are so numerous here in the past few weeks. That One is pulling out all his shiny nickels and giving them to his keyboard warriors at the rate of one per comment.

      • HELENK

        if he does the same thing he did in the primary. they will not get a check, if they are lucky they might get a gift card to a dollar store.

        • Anonymous

          And by that time, HELENK, their dollar is going to be worth about a nickel, thanks to Obambi’s spending habits.  If I could embed, I’d find a video of Melanie singing “The Nickel Song”….

  • nqisfun

    Linda Anselmi,

    I have a couple of questions for you and the posters on here:

    Why is the deficit and debt a problem?

    What is the appropriate level of debt for this nation?

    Should we ever be running a deficit? Are there times when it makes sense to run a deficit?

    Should revenue or tax increases be included as a solution to cutting the deficit?

    Where should we be cutting spending?

    Should we even have medicare and social security in this country?

    Do you think the U.S. government spends a lot compared to other countries?

    Do you think Americans pay too much taxes and how much taxes do we pay historically right now and versus what others pay in other countries?

    • ~JustMe~

      What does it matter what happens in other countries? We pay taxes here, not to any other government…. thank you!

      • Ferd_Berfle

        What does it matter what happens in other countries?
        ===========================
        Obamabot prime directive #1:

        Introduce irrelevant information when confronted with an adversary that knows more than you do and who is not susceptible to Kool-Aid.

    • Jrterrier

      No country can sustain the debt we have taken on.  See for example what is happenning all over Europe starting with Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc.  we are borrowing 40 cents on every dollar and we are at the start of the boomer retirement deluge.  It’s costing us.  A little like our wars, our fed taxes are being borne by half the population.  for the same reason that it’s so easy to go to war because so few of us have skin in the game, it’s easy to continue to incur debt and call for more taxes.  our corporate tax rate is the highest or second highest in the industrialized world. and that’s part of the reaons it’s cheaper to do business overseas. 

      even then-senator obama understood the irresponsibility of high debt: 
      Five years ago, then-Sen. Obama (D-Ill.) voted against raising the debt ceiling and even spoke about it on the Senate floor before the Republican-controlled Senate voted 52-48 to increase it.
      “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” Obama said on March 16, 2006. “Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

      • nqisfun

        Jr,

        No doubt the debt level is high in the U.S., but we are no where even close to the same as the PIIGS. The economic power and taxing power in the U.S. means that we will always be able to handle our financial oligations, especially compared to the PIIGS.

        By the way in 2010 tax revenues as a percentage of GDP was 14.8%, which was the lowest it has been since 1950. That is the result of both the Bush tax cuts and the shrinking of tax revenues from the recession. This is a big reason that we currently are borrowing 40 cents on every dollar we spend, but as the economy continues to recover (growing at 2-3% right now, which is close to 50 year average growth) then tax revenues will come back, as we are already beginning to see, and that 40 cents will go down.

        The corporate tax rate is 35%. That is a high nominal tax rate, but that is irrelevant. If you look at the effective tax rate, which is the average tax rate after all deductions (GE paid zero taxes last year), it is closer to about 18.5%, which means that corporations in America pay some of the lowest taxes in the world. Corporate income tax have fallen from between 5 and 6 percent of GDP in the early 1950s to 2.1 percent of GDP in 2008. The average for OECD countries is corporate taxes are 3.4% of GDP. Again, as a percentage of GDP U.S. corporations pay some of the lowest taxes amongst industrialized nations.  

        In 2010 about 47% of households did not pay federal income taxes. However, everyone in America pays consumption taxes and payroll taxes if you work. So everyone has plenty of skin in the game. By the way Federal income taxes (which is the 47% number you reference) only makes up 45% of federal tax collection. Every contributes to the other 55% of federal tax collection. Again there is plenty of skin in the game.

        In addition, 47% number was a bit of an abnormality, as there were a significant number of tax deductions in 2010 because of government action to stimulate the economy (cash for clunkers for example), so if you go back to the  2007 number before all these tax deductions, it was closer to 35% of households did not pay federal income taxes, but almost everyone paid all kinds of other federal taxes.

        Again, I would ask you to answer the questions I pose above:

        > what is the appropriate level of debt for the U.S.
        > Does it ever make economic sense to run deficits?
        > should we ever raise taxes to cover our expenditures?
        > where should we cut spending?
        > should we entirely get rid of Social Security and Medicare?
        > what level of taxes should America pay? Should they even be lower than where they are today? how much lower?

        • Ferd_Berfle

          > where should we cut spending?
          =================
          Answer is upthread.

        • Jrterrier

          the economy is not recovering.  the unemployment rate is not 9.2%.  that’s a phony # because people are retiring, not looking anymore, or working at mcdonalds instead of at the decent jobs they used to have. 

          my friend’s kid just graduated from a professional school and only 11% of the graduating class had gotten jobs. 

          have you looked at the runaway train coming our way with the baby boomer generation retiring?

          the appropriate level of debt is one where we are not looking at bankruptcy during the next 20 yrs if we keep spending at current levels.

          why did we start up in lybia?  we need to start exploiting our energy resources so we can put people back to work.      

          • nqisfun

            Jrterrier,

            yes, absolutely the economy is recovering. The economy went from shrinking nearly 5% to now growing 2-3%. Sure the jobs picture is not improving as fast as we would want, but that does not mean that the economy overall is not recovering. Ask any businessman if conditions are better today than they were in 2008 and 2009.

            There is no credible analysis that says the U.S. could go bankrupt in 20 years. If you can show this I would like to see it.

            I am not sure how exploiting “energy resources” will put people back to work. The energy industry is already doing plenty of exploiting in the U.S. They are making record profits and pumping oil and natural gas as fast as they can.

      • Anonymous

        You better go check that vote, Jr, Obama tends to say one thing and vote another. Remember FISA? He was so opposed to the invasion of citizen privacy..he was outraged. Then he went back to DC and voted FOR FISA. So don’t go by what he said, check out how he voted. It might be totally different from his speeches. In fact, it usually was.

        • murray

          I remember that vote vividly, FLDemFem.  Most…make that ALL the people I discussed it with looked at me with vacant eyes, thinking I was talking about FICA.
          Depressing.

    • http://twitter.com/jbjdjbjd jbjd

      I can only offer an opinion by narrowing the analysis viz a viz comparing/contrasting overall spending/taxes in the U.S. versus other countries, to this:  what ‘bang’ do the taxpayers in respective countries get ‘for the buck’?  (This, too, is an accurate barometer of a country’s hierarchy of needs.)

      For example, other commenters have said, polls indicate U.S. taxpayers would be willing to pay taxes earmarked to pay off the debt.

      (Deficit is spending more than you make.  Debt is borrowing money to spend.  Paying interest on that debt while not ‘paying down’ the debt, that is, the principal; is a lost opportunity to invest that money in revenue/wealth producing activities; or to provide necessary services.)

      • nqisfun

        jbjd,

        Average spending in the OECD is +40% of GDP. In the U.S. we are currently spending about 23% of GDP and Cut, Cap and Balance bill wants to take it down to 18%. Even if you factor in difference in healthcare and federal/state spending, the U.S. government by far spends the least amount of any major industrial country; ie. we have the smallest government. The government looks even smaller if you factor out defense spending, given how much more the U.S> spends on defense versus everyone else.

        What do other countries get for their spending? Well they fund their social safety nets like their equivalents of Medicare and Social Security and they also cover everyone with healthcare. They have better educations systems and in most cases their infrastructure is better.

        deficit/surplus/balance = spending – tax revenues

        You only talk about one side of the equation. You can equally reduce interest costs by reducing deficits through increases in tax revenues.

        This is not really an argument about deficit and debt. It is about the size of the government. We could easily raise taxes tomorrow and cuts spending to get to a surplus. But by only focusing on spending all that is being said is that you want to shrink the size of government. Fair enough, but we already have the smallest government amongst industrial competitors. Is this really a good thing? particularly as we fall further behind in education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc.?

        • Ferd_Berfle

          You can equally reduce interest costs by reducing deficits through increases in tax revenues.
          ==================
          Significant cuts must come first. Talk of increased taxes can come much later after the economy recovers, which I assume will start only after That One is drummed from office and his Obummercare is repealed.

          • nqisfun

            Actually if you read economic theory you would know that you should do exactly the opposite during an economic downturn. Cutting spending immediately hurts the economy, as it immediate saps demand out of the economy. It has a higher multiplier effect. Raising taxes, particularly on the wealthy, does not have the same immediate negative impact on the economy. We raised taxes during Clinton and a soft patch in the economy and the economy grew signficantly. We cut spending and inacted austerity in the 1930s and that prolonged the depression.

            • Ferd_Berfle

              You aren’t an economist so your braying is irrelevant.

        • Anonymous

          Well the Government has done such a bang up job running the post office and Amtrak. Let`s see what else they can run into the ground.

          Oh, and if you feel the urge to help out my retirement, please make your check payable to HARP2,  C/O The American legion. They know where to find me. Thanks in advance.

          • Ferd_Berfle

            Let`s see what else they can run into the ground.
            ==============
            Healthcare.

            • nqisfun

              Government run healthcare does a better job than the U.S.’s private system in every other country on the planet. They cover every one for half the cost and outcomes are better. Medicare actually does a better job at controlling costs than the private system.

              Ferd, at least there are lines for some to wait in, but in the U.S. for about 50 million (who we will pay for anyways in emergency rooms) there are no lines available, although I would say that the whole “lines” thing is exaggerated, as in countries like the U.K. or France or Canada there aren’t that many lines.

            • Ferd_Berfle

              Government run healthcare does a better job than the U.S.’s private system in every other country on the planet.
              ===============
              Statistics, please.

              In case you weren’t aware, this government could fuck up a bag of perfectly good hammers and then fuck up the replacements because it is run by bureaucrats that behave like you. They think they are the be-all and end-all and that because THEY are from the government, they know best. They don’t know shit from shinola. Unlike you, I have worked for private clients as well as government clients. The government clients, bureaucrats, are the worst because it isn’t their money they’re wasting. Not only that, they waste a great deal of time, another form of money. They don’t know their own regulations so I spend a great deal of time explaining to them what their requirements mean. The government is bereft of competence in even the most rudimentary processes. You really haven’t the foggiest notion of what you are braying about.

          • nqisfun

            HARP2,

            You are correct, as both the Post Office and Amtrak lose money. However, you have to ask yourself why these government entities lose money and why they even exist. I would be all for getting rid of both the post office and Amtrak. Lets do it.

            However, the single biggest reason Amtrak and the Post Office lose money is because they are used as forms of social policy or largely to subsidize rural and small town America. Amtrak losses money because it services many routes, often to small towns and rural areas, that are not profitable. It does this because the government has felt over the years that it made sense to give small town and rural America direct transportation links. Amtrak could easily cut its service to many of its unprofitable routes and only focus on the North-East where it is most profitable, but that would cut off a lot of communities, communities by-the-way that are largely full of Republican voters.

            Similarly, the Post Offices loses money for exactly the same reasons. The government has decided over many years to deliver mail to rural and small town America. Delivering mail to rural and small town America is extremely unprofitable. Sure they could eliminate these unprofitable post offices in all the rural and small town areas of America, but that would cut-off those areas. This is in full display when you look at the private couriers like Fedex and UPS. They will not deliver to rural and small town America as it is not profitable. So what do they do? These private companies use the U.S. Postal Service to deliver their mail/packages; ie. the post office subsidizes the private companies by delivering their mail for them to these unprofitable areas.

            Sure I am all for making both the Post Office and Amtrak profitable, but you do realize that would cut off a lot of your fellow conservative voters. What do you think would happend the second the Post Office and Amtrak was privatized? They would immediately stop service on their unprofitable rural and small town America routes. I am all for it, but there would be ramificiations, mostly for Republican voters.

            As it stands now urban Democratic voters subsidize the lifestyles of rural/small town Republican voters through both the Post Office and Amtrak.

          • Anonymous

            This is exactly the point HARP2: we can’t compare the US with other countries when it comes to state-sponsored programs, private entrepreneurship, or social-based charities and charitable giving. The trolls here are towing the Obama line: make America more like Europe. When’s the last time any European country invented something like the PC, the www-phenomenon, or a space shuttle that can fly on the back of an airplane to a space station multiple times? And look at the number of Nobel prizes: Americans get them in droves for merit, except in one case, where an advance welfare check was given to the Poser-in-Chief for actions the committee hoped he would do in the future, despite the fact that he had never had one achievement in the past.

        • http://twitter.com/jbjdjbjd jbjd

          I misread your question; I thought you were asking, what is the difference between deficit/debt. 

          Even without citations, I agree in principle with your premise that, other countries with higher tax rates than we have here, receive more ‘necessary’ services in exchange for those increased payments.  (How many times did I link here, to the PBS series “Healthcare Around the World”?) And they are generally satisfied with government performance.  But this is consistent with those polls I cited in relation to the paying down of the debt.  That is, people are generally willing to pay more if this will provide better services.  (I only used the ‘debt’ as one example.) However, in our country, this shift of wealth does not seem to readily translate into an increase in the general welfare.  It’s this missing ‘link’ that seems to have people up in arms.

          • Ferd_Berfle

            That is, people are generally willing to pay more if this will provide better services.
            =================
            Oh, I can’t wait for government-run healthcare. I so enjoy waiting hours in line as I do at driver’s licensing centers. Why be satisfied with a two-hour wait for some officious bureaucrat to get around to providing the requested service when I could spend twice that at a government-run “healthcare center”.

            Government service is an oxymoron.

          • Docelder

            That is just it… it doesn’t matter how much higher taxes are… the middle class usually receives nothing in return for them. The rich get richer and the middle class… extinction. On another note… I would have no problem with a separate government run health system and let people choose which system they want to receive care from. It would finally give competition to our present system… which has no real competition right now. Hospitals charge $40 for an aspirin now because they can. There is no incentive no to charge everything they can… not an incentive to increase service… an incentive to charge more for services they already provide. Big difference. Health reform of 2010 didn’t address any of the actual health care problems we face. How many people know somebody that orders medicine from Canada? Or that goes to a third world country for dental care? Or that goes out of country for elective procedures? I know people that have done all of those things. Why? Because it is better care? No. Because there is no real competition in our health care system. The only competition comes from these kinds of alternate outlets. It isn’t enough.

            • nqisfun

              Docelder,

              You are right HCR in 2010 did not go far enough to reduce actual healthcare costs, which after coverage is the biggest problem.

              However, it is the single biggest effort to get a start on dealing with healthcare costs in generations. There are many mechanisms in the HCR bills that will help use to start to deal with healtcare costs. For example, the ability to buy heath insurance in exchanges should help competition. Getting 50 million more people insurance should also help reduce costs, as pool sizes are increased and it is much more expense to pay for healthcare in emergency rooms.

              The Congressional Budget Office says the HCR bills will reduce the deficit by $143 billion over 10 years.

              The HCR bills were a good start and something to build on.

          • nqisfun

            “However, in our country, this shift of wealth does not seem to readily translate into an increase in the general welfare. ”

            I am not sure what you mean by the “shift in wealth” in the context of paying for a social safety net for the retired or for our military or for education and infrastructure, etc.

            The only shift in wealth we have seen since Reagan is ever increasing lower taxes for the wealthy and corporations (with corporate profits mostly going to the wealthy). We have seen a massive concentration of wealth in this country. The U.S. now by far has the most significant concentration of wealth of any major industrialized nation. The middle class continues to be gutted as this nation fails to make the investments required to compete, as jobs go overseas, as every new tax cuts goes dispropriately to the wealthy, etc.

            And now the Ryan plan and Cut, Cap and Balance want to continue this. Balance the budget on the backs of the middle class and ask the wealthy, who have done nothing but gain and collect an ever increasing amount of the wealth, to sacrifice nothing.
             

            • Anonymous

              KenoshoMarge: you didn’t swat hard enough last time.  

            • Anonymous

              KenoshoMarge: you didn’t swat hard enough last time.  

    • Ferd_Berfle

      Where should we be cutting spending?
      =====================
      1. Eliminate the following departments in whole:

      Energy
      Education
      Homeland Security
      Agriculture

      2. Repeal Obamacare in its entirety

      3. Eliminate all redundant government programs.

      4. Eliminate through attrition at least 25% of the government workforce, however long that takes. Eliminate more as automation can be deployed.

      5. Remove our military from Europe and from the ME and Afghanistan, as appropriate to the situation on the ground and as determined by Flag Officers.

      That’s merely off the top of my head. I’m certain my fellow regulars could come up with many more.

      • nqisfun

        The NQ clown finally wants to debate or talk some sense rather than his normal BS.

        I disagree with everything you have suggested, but I respect your point of view. You basically want a very very limited government.

        However, I am not sure how that helps anyone or helps the U.S. to compete in the world.
        Easy to make these extreme statements, but I would like to see you explain how your suggestions would actually better the country from a social, economic, environmental, etc. point of view?

        • Anonymous

          Yawn, flag, swat.

        • Ferd_Berfle

          You disagree with everything I suggested because you work for That One making your opinion biased. Moreover, my recommendations are probably held by a large percentage in this country. Give me a logical argument as to why any of these departments should remain. I know you progressives just love Homeland security–as long as That One is running it.

          In January ’13 you’ll be back whining about it as you did when it was under Bush. I’m consistent–it is an anathema to a free society.

          The real difference between you and me is that I believe in your freedom to screw up because you are free to so do. I also believe in my freedom to let you fail miserably and in my freedom to not bail your ass out when you do fail.

  • Anonymous

    “So we dutifully attend each election dance.  Dressing in our 
    best party clothes.  Seeking the familiar through our party 
    glasses and taking comfort from its rosy hue”
    ———————-
    Yes, Linda I’m a regular Cinderella standing there in 
    those glass slippers with the hopes of a million others 
    wishing dreams do come true and I do get so tired of waiting
    to see what will come next “Will they stay or will they go now”

    But in the end, I do prefer a divided government and I will 
    remember The One who brought me to this crappy dance 
    in the first place and I do hope that come 2012, 
    I will never have to see that arrogant S.O.B again.
    “HERES TO GLASS SLIPPERS”

    Good one Linda !!!

    Bob Seger- I feel like a number
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uG1lMG2MaU

    • Linda Anselmi

      Thanks Samb1!

      Seger is alway great and “like a number” speaks to the moment.  Thanks for sharing!

  • Anonymous

    McConnell: Debt deal ‘wasliterally within our
    reach’

    Washington Examiner, by Byron York    

    7/25/2011

    In an angry speech on the Senate floor, Minority
    Leader Mitch McConnell said Republicans and Democrats were tantalizingly close
    to an agreement to resolve the debt ceiling standoff over the weekend – until
    President Obama nixed the deal. ”A bipartisan plan to resolve this crisis was
    literally within our reach this weekend,” McConnell said. “We offered the
    president a bipartisan proposal to avoid default so that we could have the time
    we need to put together a serious plan for getting our house in order. He
    rejected it out of hand.”

  • Ferd_Berfle

    Thank God for TNT and Brenda Lee.

  • HELENK
    • Linda Anselmi

      Haven’t heard Nat King Cole in years.  Perfect line –

      “Many the hopes that have vanished after the ball.”

  • HELENK

    this one is so perfect for the politicians in Washington. I am sure we can all see some we know.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lak1hX0CChI&feature=related

    • Linda Anselmi

      Too funny HELENK!

  • Ferd_Berfle

    But when do we stop going to the parties expecting to dance?
    ====================
    Well, Linda, we’ll keep two-stepping to the same tune over and over again until the electorate turns off the music by way of voting the politicians out of office in each election cycle until they understand it’s our dance and we’re the lead.

    • Linda Anselmi

      “It’s our dance and we’re the lead.”

      Well said Ferd!

  • Anonymous

    Here is a mating dance for you…looks just like a herd of politicians..running in circles and being very very pink.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW8GX2n4qbY

    • Ferd_Berfle

      That’s hilarious.

    • Linda Anselmi

      What Ferd said — Hilarious!!

      Thanks for sharing FDF!

  • Anonymous

    Geithner Admits to
    Playing Politics
    with Debt Ceiling

    Weekly Standard,
    by Jeffrey H. Anderson
    7/25/2011 

    Why, exactly, do we need to extend the debt limit to the point where the federal government can borrow another $2.4 trillion (hardly a nice round number) — about the same amount of money, even in inflation-adjusted dollars, that we borrowed to fight all of World War II?

    Because, as Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner made abundantly clear during his Fox News Sunday interview
    with Chris Wallace, $2.4 trillion is the amount of money
    that the Obama administration thinks it needs to borrow
    (on behalf of taxpayers, who will have to pay it back) to
    get Obama through…..

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/geithner-most-important-we-have-lift-threat-default-economy-next-18-months_577385.html

    • Ferd_Berfle

      Once again, it is all about That One and not about the good of the country. The democrat’s obamacrat’s creed is party before country and Obama before party.

  • Anonymous

    Bypassing consent of the governed

    Washington Times,
    by Tony Blankley    
    7/25/2011

    How have we arrived at this place where the fate of our federal budget, our economy – indeed, our capacity to have a functioning
    federal government – seems to depend on what two men, Speaker of the HouseJohn A. Boehner and President Obama, may or may not be secretly talking about in an interior room in the White House? Meanwhile, elected representatives and senators, kept ignorant of those life-and-death discussions, are forced to wait.
    When the two men are finished – doubtlessly mere hours before “the world will end” – our elected representatives…..

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/25/bypassing-consent-of-the-governed/

    • murray

      I wonder whether they’re really in there playing video games.

  • Anonymous

    For nqisfun and all his trolling friends…….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYJyVEUaC4

  • yttik

    That was a well written post. Thank you, I enjoyed reading it.

    “Our government is dancing for the wolves.  And it is the wolves with whom they go home.”

    Absolutely. And that is precisely why I have begun to dance with the mama grizzlies instead.

    • Ferd_Berfle

      Absolutely. And that is precisely why I have begun to dance with the mama grizzlies instead.
      ================
      Can Papa grizzlies join?

      • Anonymous

        We like us some Papa grizzlies…. :)

        “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”

      • Anonymous

        We like us some Papa grizzlies…. :)

        “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”

      • murray

        I hope so, ‘cuz I’m in here dancin’…

    • Linda Anselmi

      Thanks yttik!  

      I’ll bet you mama and papa grizzlies liven that ballroom right up!

  • mistah charley

    obama and boehner and all the rest are willing participants in the system which lies to, steals from, and kills the people of the world to maintain the wealth and power of those at the very top.  elections are a distraction – they matter as much as who wins the superbowl.

  • Anonymous

    That was a great picture you painted with your dance analogy, Linda.

    I think the punch was spiked long ago and they’re all drunk with their delusions of power.  But be assured the dance floor will go dark after
    years of neglecting to pay the bills.  Maybe that’s when the little people in the corner will light their candles and waltz right up amongst
    the power elite.  Oh, yeah!

    • Anonymous

      Yes, skep247 – talk about “drunk with power:”  did you notice that the troll-du-jour keeps telling various posters here that “they are right” or “they are wrong” — an apt reflection of the Obama Administration and its lapdog Dems who think they know what’s best for the little people, who should just listen to their betters.

      I am so ready for the post-2012 election waltz: maybe we can all meet at some central location and dance to our hearts content to the midnight songs posted our late-night NQers….

      • Anonymous

        Looking forward to the meet-up.  I’ll be there with bells  on my toes…. that is if the bots are off somewhere crying in their beer.

        • Linda Anselmi

          Sounds fun skep247 and RR!

        • Linda Anselmi

          Sounds fun skep247 and RR!

  • PUMA GSD

    TWO BUMPER STICKERS

    2008 OBAMA I KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING ;BUT,
    WHAT WAS I THINKING

    2008 OBAMA, I COULD HAVE HAD A CLINTON

    • Anonymous

      How about:

      He’s An A-Hole
      She’s An A-Hole
      Wouldn’t You Like To Be An A-Hole Too…..VOTE OBAMA

      lmao

      “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
      http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

    • Anonymous

      How about:

      He’s An A-Hole
      She’s An A-Hole
      Wouldn’t You Like To Be An A-Hole Too…..VOTE OBAMA

      lmao

      “Say What You Will…It Feels So Good”
      http://www.saywhatyouwill.proboards.com

    • Anonymous

      Knowing what I know now I am actually glad that Clinton didnt get it, unless she had BIll standing solidly behind her all the way.
      In my opinion Hillary has totally caved in to the demands and wants of the Obama people…Would she have caved in as President??

      I dont really think there is anything left of the Hillary that we once thought was running in 2008.

  • MG

    HAHAHA!!!

  • Guest

    “In whose interest was it to ignore our debt and deficit problem until our government emptied every last bit of taxpayer money out of the coffers?  Could it be the bankers, foreign governments and industries that were fed the 13 – 14 trillion by our government through bailouts and guarantees?”
    Are you saying that Wall Street wants to blow up the world economy ? 
    Even if the debt limit is not raised, a major dip in the stock market that is oddly at pre-crash highs with no recovery in sight to support this performance would present a buying opportunity. 

    But do they care whether the debt is covered with spending cuts or tax increases ? Just don’t raise interest rates, keep printing trillions of dollars to
    cover the debt that keep the financiers happy with billions in bonuses to give the appearance of a recovery and worry about the consequences
    later.
     

  • Betty

    Here is a typical trick of the obamaparty. 
    ________________

    NewMexicoFan July 26th, 2011 at 9:53 am What maybe you don’ know if that the fedral employees months ago selected 27 July as their day to call congress about their issues. This means that there is already a large group set up to call tomorrow. While many might not be in support of the President, those calls will be interpreted that way______________.

    I hope they decide not to call.. 

  • Anonymous

    You know the problem with most of the government debt and taxes the government collects is the majority of the money is the overhead…Money that is paid out to people just to administer the money.
    Yea there are a lot of social services our taxpayers dollars are spent on.
    Yet if you really look at bottom line a big % of the social service money ends up in the hands of the administrative type people, before it might just start trickling down to us in the form of services or product that people use..

    I will make a bet that the SS overhead would really shock us if we looked into it.
    Most of us already know that the IRS is overloaded with tons of people who just paper push or people push.
    .
    How about the Medicare overhead, the Fema overhead and the list goes on…

    I was talking to a social worker friend the other day and found out that the salary for the people actually out in the field is really low. However when you look at all the other office staff that do no field work WOW. Then there are the managers, and their managers and their managers who just oversee those who oversee the actual field workers.

    Then take a look at WH staff, and CZARS..I will make a bet that the Obama’s added a Billion or so a year on CZARS that other presidents didn’t have…You have to remember for every CZAR there are added office and personal expenses..Oh and don’t forget all the vacations they take to Europe, Hawaii and Martha’s vineyard.

    A lot of unemployment is to do companies downsizing to stay in business, and the workers left picking up the slack.

    Yet it seems that all our government is doing is upsizing and spending more that we don’t seem to see in form of additional benefits for anyone, except high ranking officials and big financial institutions..

    Just maybe the government should look at some of the millions that are being paid out just in DC for their excessive office and personnel.

  • Anonymous

    I love your “wallflower” analogy, Linda.  Good job.

    There is another factor that people don’t much talk about (one exception being Karl Denninger, of Market Ticker), and that is the formula by which  GDP (Gross Domestic Product) is calculated–the measure by  which we assess how our economy is doing.  Here it is:

    GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports), or C + I + G + (x – i).

    The number that figures to change a great deal is the G for “government spending.”  In short, when government spending goes down, as go down it must, our GDP will decline in exactly the same amount.  In other words, the main measure of our economy will take a big hit.  It’s unavoidable.  When government spending increases, as it has big time under Obama, GDP goes up.  This is one of the main reasons Obama wants to focus on tax revenues instead of reducing government spending.  The expanding economy (anemic as it is) that allows Obama to boast that he ended the recession, depends on deficit spending.  The GDP statistic, inflated grossly by this excess government spending, will take a big hit when (not if) we cut back.  Naturally, he does not want to see this shrinkage in GDP to occur when he is running for re-election. References:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdp

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=190659

    • Linda Anselmi

      Thanks oowawa!  Good point on the GDP.  I read Denninger quite a bit.  Good analysis. I don’t always agree 100%, but I trust his facts.  

  • Suzieivy

    You paint a vivid analogy. I picture myself a wallflower, standing alone and hoping a saintly politician will ask me to take a turn under the crystal chandeliers. I can see him, he’s a faro among his own people as he walks the ballroom floor. He comes up to me, puts his hand out. I take it, letting out the breath I was not aware of holding. I am alone no longer. He pulls me into his arms, we are looking into each others eyes. I then discover what has kept him apart from his fellow constitutes. He has nauseatingly bad breath.

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