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“Those Women” * OPEN THREAD *

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on November 12, 2008 at 7:55 PM in Misogyny, Open Thread, Sexism, Women

Oh, I sure wish “The West Wing” was still on – new episodes, that is. What a great show.

And I loved CJ Cregg, the Press Secretary. Now SHE was someone to whom I could listen about what was going on in the world. Like when she talked about the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia:

So powerful. Wow. Shockingly, this is too true…

Now THAT was some president they had on The West Wing, Jed Bartlett. I would support a president like him in a heartbeat. How different would this past election have been if the women in the race this year where thought of in these terms:

Yep – it would be, “Madame President” if the men in power held women in this kind of esteem. Sadly, they do not, as was made all too painfully clear this year.

So we must fight until we ARE thought of in those terms, until a woman running for the highest office in the land is treated with respect from EVERYONE, not just her supporters. When her accomplishments are held in regard, not belittled and diminished just because she’s a woman. When the arguments against her are based solely on policy differences.

We have a long way to go, as this election year made clear. Goddess knows, it’s revolution time, people. Women deserve nothing less than to be treated as “normal,” as Bud White’s bumper sticker says. To be treated as normal, not just here, but all around the world. Wow, what a concept.

This is an Open Thread. What’s on your minds?

  • AnninCA

    I am waiting until it’s the right time to discuss this concept of “revolution,” “PUMA,” etc.

    I think feelings are still to raw.

  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor

    Tonight’s specials:

    The Baby Opampers: Thin crust (like his skin) pizza with pablum (like his trolls have been lapping up).

    The Angry Michelle: Deep (resentment) dish pizza with Reverend Wright toppings of roast garlic nose, government invented HIV virus and black (liberation theology) olives.

  • Grrrr

    I am pissed that there are people out there who actually believe that there was no misogyny/sexism/bias this elex season.

  • AnninCA

    I’ve lived my entire life in milieus where it was denied.

    Nothing new for me.

    I rather envy those of you “shocked.”

    I’ve realized that I really did pick a much harder path in life!

    It is/was a given to me.

  • Dawnelle

    I just got back. I’m catching up. My child has decided if she wants to join the Air Force (maybe fly). If not her 2nd choice is the Army.

    My mind is racing. :-)
    I never thought she took to being ordered around very well but she claims she NEEDS structure! Wants to travel and get her degree. She comes from a long line of Veterans so maybe it shouldn’t surprise me.

  • Dawnelle

    pardon typos

  • WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName

    My mom just phoned to say that Sarah Palin is going to be on Larry King tonight…

  • AnninCA

    Oh Gosh…..when my kid announced he was joining ROTC, I can still seem him in his bed, and me marching around the room saying, “This is unacceptable, because we are pacifists in this family. We are against war.”

    I scared him out of his choice. *haha

    I pray for your daughter.

  • BJ

    “Open Thread”

    Perfect timing.

    I just finished watched a documentary on the Sundance Channel that I had tivo’d.

    It is called Body of War and is 90 mins long.

    It follows the path of a young man who was shot and paralyzed just 5 days into his Iraq war mission. He came home and deals with the daily struggles of being paralyzed while doing his part to protest the war as just a little guy doing his little thing.

    My point of posting (aside from promoting the documentary and hoping others see it) is to mention something about D Sen Robert Byrd.

    Throughout this film they shoot clips of Senators on the Senate floor and their comments, promotion of the war, preaching the terrorist threats against us. It was Sen Byrd, shown in this film, who spoke up loudly and constantly warning against this war. He warned them to talk to the American ppl and let them decide the path.

    After watching this documentary I must say Sen Byrd is more of a hero to me than I realized. Back when it was unpopular to speak out against Bush and the war he said so many things that hold up soooo true today.

    When I think back over the last several years listening to Reps ridicule and make fun of this old man and his uncontrollable shaking.. them laughing and angry at his long speeches on the Sen floor that they referred to as endless nonsensical rants, it makes me sick they didn’t heed his warning.

    Sen Byrd, you are one of my heroes.

  • hadenough

    2004 interview with barry on his faith:

    FALSANI:
    Do you have people in your life that you look to for guidance?

    OBAMA:
    Well, my pastor [Jeremiah Wright] is certainly someone who I have an enormous amount of respect for.

    I have a number of friends who are ministers. Reverend Meeks is a close friend and colleague of mine in the state Senate. Father Michael Pfleger is a dear friend, and somebody I interact with closely.

    FALSANI:
    Those two will keep you on your toes.

    OBAMA:
    And theyr’e good friends. Because both of them are in the public eye, there are ways we can all reflect on what’s happening to each of us in ways that are useful.

    I think they can help me, they can appreciate certain specific challenges that I go through as a public figure.
    blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/11/obamas-interview-with-cathleen.html

    I wonder how often wright, while standing at a lectern in front of his church, pretended he was riding a woman around like a pony?

  • Seattle Moss

    Hi Folks,
    I have been wondering why I’m so frustrated this year and it finally hit me. Compliments of Kinky Friedman on O’Reilly…

    Why do women not support other women?

    It just leaves me speechless and amazed!!!

    I worked my heart out for both Hillary and Sarah and to see women act this way really is shocking and annoying!!!

  • AnninCA

    Well, you know why this worked?

    Because nobody goes to church anymore.

    His minister is not relevant.

    Be honest.

    How many church-goers do you really know?

    Nobody cares. Religion is dead.

  • AnninCA

    Women view other women as competition. Always.

    So do men, I think.

    It’s innate.

  • Dawnelle

    well I’m a Vet
    her father served longer than I did
    both Grandfathers served and loads of Uncles

    No pacifists here although I probably am. I’ve never been tested (thank GOD) when I served there was no WAR.

  • Julia

    I’m tired of feminism. feminism is not the leadership that women need. No longer. Feminism made its work but now is over. Worse, feminism doesn’t pursue women’s rights, feminism wants power but not for women only for them, feminism only stands up for feminism.

  • AnninCA

    Yeah, you could not pull off my pacifist midnight speech. LOL*

    You’re stuck.

  • Seirem

    No it isn’t. that’s learned

  • Patti

    AF might be better choice than the Army @ this point. Just remember to breathe, its makes it a tad bit easier. My son spent 4 years in the AF.

  • BJ

    lol you’re so funny-

    “Thin crust (like his skin…”

    You realize they’ll conjure up a way to call you racist for that don’t you?

  • AnninCA

    I actually somewhat agree, but your post doesn’t really articulate much.

    But yeah, I’m not interested in that topic for its own sake.

    What bugs me after 40 years…..give women credit where credit is due!

    That bugs the crap outta me.

    If you negotiate a great contract, then for God’s sakes, give me credit for doing it.

    That’s an example.

  • Bob

    So Obama’s grandmother will have a public memorial service. Another noquarter conspiracy theory shot down (Obama was accused of faking her death to keep her from being questioned about where he was born).

    Will it give any of the mad (tinfoil) hatters pause? In a forum where no one is willing to admit that the whitey video story was phony, of course it won’t. They’re already tuning in new messages from the voices in their heads.

  • BJ

    typos allowed-

    If she takes on that path she possibly could look forward to a career as an airline pilot which would certainly give her the opportunity to see the world. But she must be forewarned that not all those who want to be military pilots are chosen for that task.

    I watched a military documentary recently on the military channel that documented the lives of one our ships out to sea (forget which one).. but it showed some of the disenchanted guys who expected to become pilots and ended up doing nothing but mopping floors and cleaning bathrooms.

  • Arcadianwind

    Thanks to all who commented in Medusa’s post below! (Hopium Smokers who Hate Women)

    We(in America)have become way too much like the Romans in many ways; the bad ways, unfortunately. And look at the treatment of women in that culture, and ours.

    Hail Caesar! Hail Rome! Can you hear it?

    Some of you may enjoy this:
    http://www.aislingmagazine.com/aislingmagazine/articles/TAM32/ethical/womencelts.html

  • Dawnelle

    That’s my thoughts too! AF

    Thanks about breathing! Yes very important! ;-)

  • Seirem

    I give the credit…for the past not for the present, not for the last 20 years. Feminism gave a powerful “call to the action” but well, where’s the structure to develop the “contract”. Not very good

  • Dorando

    More women voted for Obama than voted for Kerry, you dipshits.

  • Dawnelle

    actually thanks to THIS election (and Rev. Manning) my Mom and I have decided we’re going to do Christmas Eve Services this year (she’s Presbyterian but hasn’t gone since my dad died)

    so – for us – it’s having some “meaning” again!

    you bettcha!

  • hadenough

    Because nobody goes to church anymore.

    You are kidding right?

    cnn 2008 exit poll percentage of voters by religion:
    Protestant (54%)
    Catholic (27%)
    Jewish (2%)
    Other (6%)
    None (12%)
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2

    Now I’m sure 89% of voters that cared enough about religion to name theirs don’t go to church every Friday/Saturday/Sunday but “nobody goes to church anymore”, you have to be kidding.

    How many church-goers do you really know?

    You are kidding right? It’s not about me. Anyway in my tiny universe there is mosque, synagogue, and several flavors of churches. Friday the mosque is packed, Saturday the synagogue is packed and Sunday the churches over flow. And no I don’t really know them all but there they are.

    My 2 cents: wright didn’t matter because the “liberal media” wanted wright not to matter.

  • BJ

    Personally, I wish that were true.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Correction Dorando…More DEAD women voted for Obama.

  • BJ

    what an ignorant comment about something you apparently know nothing about-

    It is much, much more complicated than that.

    geeshe :(

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    I watched the Senate hearings a LOT in the run-up to war. I remember being moved to tears by Sen. Byrd. He reached inside his jacket to retrieve his copy of the Constitution and said, “My hands may shake, but my heart THROBS for the Constitution of the United States!” He also offered to send a copy of the Federalists Papers to the other end of Pennsylvania Ave., sure that Bush had not read them. He said, “They will be a gift from me, Senator Robert C. Byrd.”

    I have been a big fan of his ever since. And that is why I was SO disappointed when he joined the Obama bandwagon (especially since WVA went so heavily to Clinton. Rockefeller jumped on the bandwagon early.). I was shocked…

    DAWNELLE – I know you are a vet, and many in your family are as well, but I can still understand the surprise that your daughter now wants to join the AF or the Army. Wow – big decision. Life altering, for sure. If she feels like she can really benefit from that type of training, well, that is saying something. (I knew someone in the ARNat’l Guard who was then wooed into the Army – boy, did she regret that! She said life was a LOT cushier in the Air Force!)

  • Margaret

    Hallelujah it is definitely time for a revolution! During the primary season I said to a friend, if we don’t get Hillary, then we may just get the Third Wave of the Women’s Liberation Movement. This campaign season has been one long consciousness raising session for women who thought they were postfeminist or that feminism was passe. We don’t even have an Equal Rights Amendment! But, we will.

  • IndieJones

    This is off the subject, yet, very interesting.
    Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago,
    there was a paper posted on the internet that alledged that Obama was employing techniques of hypnosis. The author of that paper is unknown (and will probably never own up to it), and he/she to have that kind of indept knowledge, must be a hypnotist.
    Now, I just found a video posted by Wendi Friesen
    ( a well known hypnotist) where even she doesn’t deny
    Obamas’ use of the techniques ( she actually defends
    a persons use of hypnosis…or as she puts it..ahem…Persuasion..)
    So, if anyone wants to check out the video, here is the link.
    Oh, I also want to say that Wendi is NOT THE HYPNOTIST that posted that internet paper.
    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wenditv

  • Margaret

    hee hee hee. That is so good I just cannot stop giggling.

  • Margaret

    Troll alert. Remember, do not feed the trolls!

  • Dawnelle

    I AM ONE OF those women who love the Sisterhood.

    I’ve never felt threatened or competitive with any women I’ve known that I can recall. I’m sure some of them were that way but I’ve never been motivated to climb the ladder as high as I could scratch or claw my way up………. just not in to that.

    Now as far as competing (back in the day) for some hottie at the bar stool, you bettcha. Not so much these days ya know? LOL

  • BJ

    “your post doesn’t really articulate much.”

    boy you can say that again.. and again..

    IMO Mz Mulia has NO CLUE what feminism is-

  • BJ

    “your post doesn’t really articulate much.”

    boy you can say that again.. and again..

    IMO Mz Julia has NO CLUE what feminism is-

  • Margaret

    This is interesting. I remember reading about it awhile back. It is tough to keep track of all Barack Hussein Obama’s corrupt methods, so thanks for the reminder.

    This theory sure makes sense…

  • BJ

    go measure your penis.. assuming you can find it.

  • Margaret

    I agree. And, it can be unlearned. An Obama presidency that trashes women as bad as his campaign did should do the trick. Just a matter of time until women come together. We’ll have the revolution ready and waiting…

  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor

    I’m 0 for 3, was against Bush, his staged war in Iraq and now the plasticine-elect Obama. I may seem the loser but its America that really is.

  • elise

    I think it was anninca above who said the feelings are still too raw. I have disagreed with her before and I am about to again. This needs to be discussed now. Right this minute, this week, this month, this year. It may be too late to wait. When it is so common, it is unrecognized and unchallenged, we are dying here. This isn’t a rant about Hillary or Palin or, even, the past year. Our dignity and rights are being stolen and it will be a long time before another opportunity will arise to expose it for what it is. Why is it, women cannot recognize the power of solidarity? The AAs understand it and unions understand and the white (and black) male establishment certainly understand. If our role hasn’t changed and we are still nothing more than child bearers and homemakers, lets admit it and stop striving for anything else. Let’s give up reading, college, meaningful work and put the aprons back on. Someone with wealth and standing needs to begin now to examine everything Hillary has accomplished in her life, set aside all the lies told, present all of her debates and speeches and they need to do so in a way that will demand the attention of the public. Not for her, but for us. If she couldn’t make it, no other woman will ever make it. Don’t lie to yourselves about Sarah Palin. They (men in the party) have already begun the campaign to minimize her and marginalize her strength. In 2012, she will no longer exist for the Republican Party. Where are the women’s groups? They are a joke. They have sold out and moved on. If we can’t find it in ourselves to be militant and ignore the name calling, we are done. Look in your own lives and listen to the words of others. How many times have you heard another woman called a name or belittled and not protested? Pay attention to what you watch on TV and listen to what you have ignored before. Make some noise, for God’s sake.

  • Dawnelle

    that was funny

    have you all noticed SERIOUSLY have you??

    WHAT INCREDIBLY BAD LOSERS BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA SUPPORTS ARE???

    THEY ARE MAD THAT WE WON’T ALL JOIN IN THE ASS KISSING OF THE NEW CIC

    sorry you are s.o.l.
    not happening
    nope
    nada
    neyt
    non
    no

  • hadenough

    Hey dipshit that and $5.50 will get you a latte. No really what does that have to do with the price of corn?

  • Dawnelle

    lmao wait i mean bad WINNERS

    can you believe they won and still act like they lost!!!

    it’s backwards world I tell ya!

  • BJ

    yeh but you have the right to have your voice heard, each and every time, and that’s the good part-

    Amy,

    I remember Byrd and the constitution.. whadda guy.. The end of this Doc btw, has this kid going to the hill and meeting with Byrd and they have a nice chat.. it’s very moving to see-

  • Patience

    It’s because of this that Obama won by only 6% intead of 16%.

  • KarenG

    Looks like they forgot about helping Hillary pay her debt? Did you get your letter from Obama’s campaign guy? Remember how Obama promised to get Hillary’s debt paid off….Hillary has written off all but the
    vendors which are still owed 7 million.
    Note…..the subject line on this memo.

    Subject -Before anything else

    David Plouffe, BarackObama.com
    Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:08 PM
    Reply-To: democraticparty@democrats.org
    To: S

    Our friends at the Democratic National Committee laid it all on the line to bring change this year.

    We’ve been reviewing the books, and the DNC went into considerable debt to secure victory for Barack and Joe. It took unprecedented resources to staff up all 50 states, train field organizers, and build the technology to reach as many swing voters as possible.

    It worked.

    But it also left the DNC in debt. So before we do anything else, we need to help pay for this winning strategy.

    Make a donation of $30 or more now and you’ll get a limited edition 2008 Victory T-shirt.

    Help the DNC and get a 2008 Victory T-shirt

    The DNC’s 50-state field strategy was crucial to our campaign’s success, as well as victories for Democrats up and down the ballot. Their organizing infrastructure allowed us to compete — and win — in states that seemed insurmountable just four years ago.

    They took out substantial loans to make it happen. The DNC didn’t hold back, and now, neither can we.

    You were there for this campaign when we needed to reach out to more voters and compete in more states. Now we’re relying on grassroots supporters like you to come through for this movement once again.

    We’ll get to work transforming this country. But first, we need to take care of the DNC.

    Please make a donation of $30 or more today and receive your Obama Victory T-shirt:

    https://donate.barackobama.com/victoryshirt

    Thank you for everything,

    David

    David Plouffe
    Campaign Manager
    Obama for America

    Please donate

  • BJ

    Could we possibly stop with the Hussein ignorant bullshit?

    This middle name of his is not worthy of the attention it gets, with the attempt to use it against him.

    The name Hussein is a common enough name in all the world. It is a rare first name given but a popular last name. It means “little handsome”, or as described here and was the most popular name given to boy births in Sweden in 1999.

    FYI, for those who don’t know, one of the U.S.’s closest allies was King Hussein of Jordan.

    Many years ago the king came to our country and took a bride 30 yrs his junior (he was in his 50′s and she was 26 at the time I believe). She became Queen Norah. As a modern but Moslem nation they always had an excellent and important relationship with our country (from my knowledge and what I recall).

    I remember reading about him so many years ago and admired the man. 30 some years later he has died and now his and Queen Norah’s son has become King Hussein of Jordan, and remain great allies of this nation and an important go-between for us and the “evil doers”. This even through the unsteady years since 9/11 when relations between the US and the Moslem world were so tense, they remain our important allies.

    So could we possibly ever stop with the “Hussein” name bullshit as it’s such an insult, a racist insult to those Hussein’s who have been great friends of this country (along with the French security forces who we made fun of with the “freedom fries CRAP).

    If you want to denounce Obama and call him a name, just call him a ‘phony mutha-fucka’ and be real about it.

  • noproblama

    when I served there was no WAR.

    Ah, there’s the rub.

  • noproblama

    And your argument.

  • BJ

    Those pricks, that phony mutha-fucka!

    I posted this great article here the other day which speaks of how much exhaustive campaigning Hillary has done for Obambi, and how so far he hasn’t lifted a finger to help her with her debt.

    fuck him..

    “change” my ass

  • AF catfish

    LOL there’s nothing like the NQ troll smackdown. Best of the blogs.

  • http://comment thierry

    HUMAN RIGHTS ARE WOMEN RIGHTS TOO.RESPECT DUE TO WOMEN,FOR THEY ARE OUR MOTHERS,OUR WIVES,OUR SISTERS,OUR DAUGHTERS…,OUR EVERYTHING.AMERICA NEED TO BE THE ROLE MODEL OF WOMEN RIGHTS ALL AROUND THE GLOBE.A REVOLUTION,YES; BUT ,WE ALL NEED TO CHANGE OUR MENTALITIES

  • Northwest rain

    NAVY!!

    My grandfather was in the Army in WWI — in France in the trenches.

    He told his sons to join the Navy — they did and so did his grandsons and now greatgrandsons.

    Grand dad’s reasoning — the Navy has better food. And if you’re going to die — it’s better to die on a full stomach — in the Army he saw too many of his fellow soldiers die on an empty stomach.

    My dad was career Navy– so I have a bias.

  • Northwest rain

    An you are on a roll — really DUMB.

    It is NOT innate — this is LEARNED behavior.

    You are intruding into my area of research.

    This is learned behavior —

    Trolls will never learn.

  • Northwest rain

    YES we must recognized what was done by camp Obama — they deliberately used sexism — and as usual women fell for this garbage.

    Then AninCA who I am certain is a troll is trying to get us to forget about what was done — she/he wants us to “respect” the ONE and move on.

    Move on to what the hell else that could be more important than focusing on how women got screwed AGAIN and AGAIN in this election.

    The ONE hates women — even if women kiss his scrawny ass — he will discard and dismiss women and make sure that women do not gain anything while he is in control. He has massive psychological hang-ups — he hates white women and ALL strong women, regardless of the color of their skin.

    We need to focus on our anger and DO something with our anger. We must demand respect — which is an impossible concept to explain to Obama-bot troll females.

    And we must renew the battle for the ERA. Women could NOT vote until an amendment to the constitution was passed giving us the vote in 1920. That means that we need another amendment which will give us human rights equal to men. Just equal rights — recognition that women are human beings who deserved respect and equality under the law.

    Look when a misogynist can get away with hanging Sarah Palin in effigy and nothing can be done — that means we have a hell of a long way to go.

  • elise

    Dawnelle, there is nothing wrong with women being competitive. Make no mistake, competitive and competent women will be characterized in negative terms until we change things. It is NOT innate. That is a stupid concept which reinforces the status quo and that’s just fine with too many men. We have to take our lives into our own hands, teach young women how their lives are affected by sexism every step they take. We need to let the women in the media who have led the disgusting attacks on Hillary and Gov. Palin feel our wrath by boycotts and turn our backs on the orgs created to support our rights which have sold out our best interests for their own positions.Gays and lesbians have staged an impressive demonstration in Ca. to fight for their rights. AAs have had people like JJ and Al Sharpton raising their voices against racism since the Civil Rights Movement. What have we done? Even Title 9 is failing to live up to it’s promise because politicians and churches have deliberately focused on Roe to divide. I intend to boycott all movies with Susan Sarandon and others. I will never watch The View or Oprah again or buy the books recommended by her. It’s time to make a list and reject those women in the media who have betrayed us. We have the power. All we need to do is use it.

  • final2weeksgone

    The same Hollywood that created West Wing also created the horrible act of calling other women unthinkable names in this election. We had outstanding women representing both parties and Hollywood trashed them.

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    You would like his book “Losing America – Confronting A Reckless and Arrogant Presidency”, published in 2004. He is brave and courageous. Reminds me of Senator William Fulbright during Vietman when he took on his own party’s president, LBJ.

  • http://firefox AnnieCollier

    Evidently it’s not dead in Chicago…they all have a lot of attendees. Have you seen the thousands in Farrakhans “temple”?

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Bob, the voices in my head tell me that you’re a tortured soul who hangs around our site because you know that deep down we’re right about your Precious.

    Admit the error of your ways. The truth will set you free.

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Dorando, when you finally pull that dipshit out of your ass you will be able to measure the deep shit we’re in now that Obama is our new dictator.

  • BJ

    could you scream that a little louder ?

    :(

  • BJ

    oh yeh, I’ve never heard of this book, I will check it out for sure. I have several political books on hand and have pretty much caught up on reading them all. Thanks.

    Whether I agree with one parties politics or policies at any given moment, I always admire anyone who takes on their own party at any time rather than falling in line behind something they don’t believe in. It shows their character.

  • Snickers

    Elise, I agree. I used to like her magazine. Now I won’t touch it. Ditto for the celebrities who were so outspoken in their support of Obama and their hatred for Palin. I’m also not watching television. I’ve been watching this fantastic Australian series called McLeod’s Daughters (from Netflix) which is about a man dying and leaving his ranch to his two daughters who have not seen each other since they were small. My Gawd, talking about women working together. This series covers and addresses very real problems women have. I would highly recommend it everyone.

  • Bob

    I’m talking about what’s actually happening (public funeral for Obama’s grandma deflates another noquarter conspiracy theory).

    You’re thinking about my penis. Sorry, “BJ” (username meaning suddenly becomes clear), but that’s not happening for you.

  • Grrrr

    Beware of the wolves in sheep’s clothing…

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Thank you. WasL you are always very informative and it is very much appreciated. :-)

  • Typewriterstreaming

    You’re no loser. You have the best pizza in the Country.

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Hear! Hear!

  • Typewriterstreaming

    crap. the lot of ‘em. low life crapsters.

  • fardcocaveido

    Hello. It is test.

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