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Libya, Chaos Reigns

And the fun continues. Last night we were told in repeating BREAKING NEWS reports that the sons of Gaddafi had been captured. So today? Not so much. Saif Gaddafi popped up and is alive, well and free:

[Updated at 8:56 p.m. ET, 2:56 a.m. Tuesday in Libya] CNN’s Matthew Chance has posted a picture that he took of Saif al-Islam Gadhafi during Saif’s brief visit to the Rixos Hotel on Tuesday morning.

Chance also reports that electricity returned to the hotel about 10 minutes after Saif’s visit. The building, where about 35 international journalists are staying, had been without power for hours.

It’s not yet known how many people have been killed or injured in Tripoli since rebels began fighting forces loyal to Gadhafi in the capital over the weekend.

Although I’m still holding out for option three, we could wind up with the Option One from my post last night.

There is no Libyan version of Charles De Gaulle waiting in the wings to lead the free Libyan forces on a victory march through the heart of Tripoli. Dumping Gaddafi does not solve the problem of how to govern Libya nor does it ensure the character and focus of any new regime. As I wrote yesterday, if Gaddafi remains alive and breathing we are likely to look at continued civil war. Getting Gaddafi and his boys out of the way does not ensure stability and order.

Just like the much ballyhooed “Arab Spring,” this kind of change is messy and chaotic and does not tend to promote stability and order.

  • Anonymous

    Drudge reported yesterday that the rebel government is now rounding up blacks and holding them in prison.

  • Anonymous

    Testing…1, 2, 3

  • Anonymous

    OK.  I give up.  It was fun but DisGust sends my frustration level off the map.  Will someone let me know if all the bugs ever get worked out.  I’m creeper 92 at yaho, etc.

    So long, all.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t lknow how you feel about Fred Fleitz, Larry, but I found this interesting.:

    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/libya-obama-france-britain/2011/08/22/id/408183?s=al&promo_code=CE4A-1

  • Anonymous

    Don’t know how you feel about Fred Fleitz, Larry, but I found this interesting:

    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/libya-obama-france-britain/2011/08/22/id/408183?s=al&promo_code=CE4A-1

  • HELENK

    http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre77m8zr-us-libya-gaddafi/

    gaddafi says withdrawal from compound was stratigic move

  • HELENK

    Al-Orouba TV: Gadhafi to address Libyan people through a local radio station – @Reuters
     

  • HELENK

    gaddafi forces shelling town of Zuara

    http://twitter.com/#!/Reuters

    • Scottymac54

      Additional evidence that we, once again, have been lied to, again, and again.

  • Alice Wolf

    God please help Gadafi and the Libyans

    • Scottymac54

      I agree with the spirit of your intention.

      I’d like to add, let those in power defer to the wisdom of resisting foreign entanglement, and honor The One Above by making his work all the more easier.

      May we find a way to be “His Perfect Laborer” in this matter.

      May His will be done.

  • HELENK

    Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday he
    will only recognize a Libyan government led by his friend and ally
    Muammar Gaddafi and accused the United States of inciting the country’s
    civil war.Chavez accused Western powers of riding roughshod
    over international laws by supporting opposition fighters in their
    revolt against Gaddafi.”This is kicking, spitting … on the
    most basic elements of international law,” he said. “Where are the
    international rights? This is like the caveman era.”Venezuela’s
    socialist leader spoke after fighters overran Gaddafi’s compound in
    Tripoli in what appeared to be the end of his 42-year rule.”We
    only recognize one government, the one led by Muammar Gaddafi,” Chavez
    said to applause as he presided over a cabinet meeting broadcast live
    on state TV.During six months of civil war more than 30
    countries, including the United States and major European Union
    countries, have moved to recognize the rebel National Transitional
    Council as the governing authority in Libya.The 57-year-old former soldier one again accused Western powers of fueling the conflict to steal Libya’s oil.”They
    arranged this war,” Chavez said, referring to the United States. “They
    provided the arms, the mercenaries. They better not attempt to apply
    the Libyan formula to Venezuela or we’ll have to show them our power.”Both
    Chavez and Gaddafi are military men who cast themselves as
    anti-imperialist revolutionaries and forged a friendship during half a
    dozen encounters in the past decade.They have enjoyed a
    long-standing alliance based on left-wing economic ideas, antagonistic
    relations with the United  States, and their countries’ membership in
    OPEC.
     

    • Anonymous

      Chavez further said, “I’ll give up my Khaddafi when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around his gold.”

  • Scottymac54

    I believe most of what we’ve seen so far has been staged.

    I heard Tarpley on the radio and he claimed NATO bombings have destroyed any ability to fight on fixed positions in the city.

    So, regardless of videos of palaces and riotous celebration, the battle will wage on.  The son’s grandstanding might well have been a rallying cry.

    I didn’t realize how black the southern part of Libya is.

    The “rebels” are not exactly civil-rights minded and it makes sense that the southerners aren’t going to just roll over, so this could go on and on.

    Depressing when you consider just how much carnage is probably going down, with all of the weaponry shipped in there.

    Even more so, when you consider how much of a hand we have had in it (but we won’t hear about it, from our news sources).

  • candymarl

    I think this is a disaster. You can’t remake Africa and the Middle East at the same time.  This  is WWIII.  Iran had  a democratically elected government that we overthrew.  Qadafi overthrew a greedy caliphate that let the people starve.  Mubarak kept Hamas and other nutjobs at bay for Israel.

    Arab Spring in Libya?  Libya is an African country.  I guess  that doesn’t bother the Pan Africans or other groups that claim to be pro-Africa.

    Obama is killing Africans.  Evidently AA’s don’t care.

    • Anonymous

      “AAs” only care about “AAs.”  They could care less about “As,” as that’s just one more group that they might have to compete with for US tax dollars.  Call Maxine Waters, she gets it.

      • Scottymac54

        This is true.

        Remember how, after the Haiti earthquake, the air reverberated with accusations toward US, after they chose to use the tragedy as an opportunity to invoke racism, Jim Crow, etc., and, except for a few “aspiring rappers”, did nothing to help their brothers.

        Most non-blacks had more sense to throw their money down that particular pit of hell, and former US presidents had to launch a pity offensive….

        Also, listen carefully to the dialogue in any American office between AA’s and their Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc. counterparts, and hear the “solidarity” in full effect.

        There’s nothing new about tribalism in the world, but it can always be counted upon as a weapon of control, and the powers that be LOVE IT.

  • MG
  • MG
  • HELENK

    we spend $1 billion dollars for this.
    Sharia Law might be basis for new Libyan constitution draft

    http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/22/libyan-draft-constitution-sharia-is-principal-source-of-legislation/

    • Anonymous

      Biggest problem is we are not done spending on Libya or a few of the other countries with unrest…
      Isnt it time to pull in a bit and keep some money at home.

      • Scottymac54

        It’s time to eliminate all foreign aid.

  • HELENK

    we spend $1 billion dollars for this.
    Sharia Law might be basis for new Libyan constitution draft

    http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/22/libyan-draft-constitution-sharia-is-principal-source-of-legislation/

  • HELENK

    we spend $1 billion dollars for this.
    Sharia Law might be basis for new Libyan constitution draft

    http://blog.heritage.org/2011/08/22/libyan-draft-constitution-sharia-is-principal-source-of-legislation/

  • Anonymous

    OT:  Oh, it’s over a 5.  They are evacuating.  Oh, really?  Too much information!

  • candymarl

    Can you say clusterf*ck?   I knew you could!

  • Anonymous

    OT:  Fox is reporting an earthquake in D.C.  (!)  In D.C.?  What exactly are the odds of that?   That’s what I thought.

    • hc123

      It was pretty big!

    • hc123

      It was pretty big!

    • hc123

      It was pretty big!

    • HELENK

      maybe the obots are finally waking up and have the nest morning kool ade shakes.

      Do you think Irene will shorten backtrack’s vacation? how far north will she go?

    • HELENK

      maybe the obots are finally waking up and have the nest morning kool ade shakes.

      Do you think Irene will shorten backtrack’s vacation? how far north will she go?

    • HELENK

      years ago I read about historic homes and buildings in Carolina built with iron bars through them to make the earthquake proof. At the time I thought it was strange because I thought earthquakes were only on the west coast.

      As Far as the track speed slowdown on Amtrak, that is standard procedure after an earthquake. The trains go slow enough for the engineer to examine the track ahead and to be able to stop if there is a problem.

  • Anonymous

    Testing…1, 2, 3

    • Anonymous

      Well, how about that?  If you don’t have “real time updating” enabled it eats your comments.

      Dis-qus-ting.

      If I didn’t like you guys so much…

      • Anonymous

        Good theory, creeper, but I’ve never had “real time updating” enabled….

        • Anonymous

          Shot that one full of holes didn’t you, bunny?  I’m beginning to remember why I was gone for so long.

  • Anonymous

    Heard during morning PT at Camp Lejune:  “Khadafi and Chavez were lyin’ in bed, one rolled over to the other and said, ‘Gimme gold…’ “

  • Anonymous

    Fascinating live video feed has been broadcast on Sky News throughout this ongoing battle for Libya.  They are now broadcasting from within Ghaddafi’s compound:

    http://go.sky.com/vod/content/Home/content/videoId/eefdd9d2c3e5f110VgnVCM1000001f5012ac________/content/detachedLiveTv.do#url=http://go.sky.com/vod/content/Home/content/changeDetachedChannel.do?videoId=eefdd9d2c3e5f110VgnVCM1000001f5012ac____

    • Jwrjr

      ” has put ALL of the US news broadcasters to shame….”  That’s not difficult.

  • Anonymous

    So how much money have we sunk into this mess alredy?
    Why do I have a feeling that by the time this is over Libya wil still be a messed up country that America will have ended up or end up spending billions of $$$ on in the coming year…

    • Scottymac54

      Because that’s exactly what has happened before.

      Time and time again.

  • hc123

    Given sufficient time my money is on Option 5 – Islamic Republic with Shariah Law. 

    Gaddafi may find Islam himself to keep his people in line (see end stage Saddam).

    He may fail to hold it together and be overthrown by a mob (see Egypt).

    He may even die of natural causes or retire in a decade or so and try to hand the reins to his less competent son – who may then fail or inject more Islam in an attempt to keep the family business going. The sister may marry a general type and try to run things for a while (see Syria).

    These days Islam fills power vacuums in predominantly muslim areas. I see no reason why Libya would be different and it will experience a power vacuum no matter how Gadaffi goes – alive, dead, willing, unwilling.

    I am glad the American public doesnt really seem to be buying this “Arab Spring” concept. Not even in my ultra lefty we love Obama zip code. 

  • Anonymous

    why do I get the strange feeling that when all is said and done we are just going to end up with another Muslim nation..
    Im praying its not a radical Muslim nation if I am right…but Im not holding my breath.

    • Anonymous

      The whole Middle East is a cauldron of hot Islamic oil.

  • Jwrjr

    Little doubt that the world would be a better place without Gaddafi, but where does Obama get off deciding that other countrys’ leaders can hold office only if he (Obama) approves of them?

    • Anonymous

      And we thought Bush was bad
      Do you miss him yet

      • Scottymac54

        No….

  • Anonymous

    Gadhafi is filthy rich, with a hand-picked squad of buxom female bodyguards. Behind curtain number two is a noose and trapdoor….choices, choices, hang it!
    Diplomatic channels are running smoothly, so once a peacekeeping force is established, France and Italy, using Pentagon data, should reimburse our taxpayers from their Libyan oil revenues.
    Break out the sunscreen and golf clubs, for prosperity is just around the corner!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MCA6QIPPR3EXRQRYL3MVYJSKLQ Joe

      Filthy stinkin’ rich… I heard something yesterday about him having an ENORMOUS stockpile of physical gold stashed somewhere yet unknown.

      Forget about WMD and oil, and go for the gold!

  • Docelder

    First off… POTUS doesn’t have a damn domestic plan for the United States… anything he does internationally is also by the seat of whoever’s pants shows up to work when POTUS is on vacation or playing golf. But being a community organizer… he probably just loves the chaos of this all… But we should see by now that when we lose it… the world will lose it as well. Like it or not the US was the rock the rest of the world was counting on… the dollar… our economy… our military capability… knowing what we were all about gave some sense of stability to the rest of this planet… at least it did before “hope and change” came around. The only real question… is Barack he the most devious ruler the world has ever known… or is he simply the most inept? Not that the results will differ knowing… but it is something that would be good to know going forward… provided we do go forward of course.

    • Scottymac54

      “The only real question… is Barack he the most devious ruler the world has ever known… or is he simply the most inept?”

      Neither.  He’s a crony capitalist at heart.

      And everything is seen in terms of money, and votes.

      So it only makes sense that the REAL outrages will remain concealed until after he is out of office.

      This is about the merger of state and corporate power, which I have been begging folks to pay attention to, for over a decade.

  • Anonymous

    What a fiasco!  We’ve burned about a BILLION borrowed dollars and killed thousands of civilians, which is a drop in the bucket considering the number that will lose their lives in the coming retribution and civil war, to oust a secular dictator in order to make way for an American-hating Islamic dictator that will enforce freedom-sucking Sharia law.  I’m having a hard time seeing the benefit in it all. 

    • Lisa

      Supposedly we helped the rebels to save live!!!.  What if the rebles  (thugs) start killing the Gaddfi supporters.  Will Obama be OK. with that?

      • Anonymous

        That’s a good question. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MCA6QIPPR3EXRQRYL3MVYJSKLQ Joe

    Before word broke that the son was not captured, the folks at CNN could not contain their smiles throughout the day.  There was the same familiar glee from the days of the Egypt uprising, and even the same types of comments about the Libyan people and freedom.

    Some over at MSDNC were rendered incontinent, discussing how 0s patient and thoughtful strategy, although hard for the average plebe to understand, was a stroke of genius… I paraphrase only a little to be sure.

    The only thing “historic” about yesterday was the media’s eagerness to shill for this administration.

  • Anonymous

    Everytime POTUS speaks, events take a turn for the worst– chosen sports team lose, stock markets tank, world events turn more horrific.

    Yesterday it was the Obama Doctrine. Today, it’ll be Bush’s fault in 1..2…3..

  • Anonymous

    Everytime POTUS speaks, events take a turn for the worst– chosen sports team lose, stock markets tank, world events turn more horrific.

    Yesterday it was the Obama Doctrine. Today, it’ll be Bush’s fault in 1..2…3..

  • Anonymous

    Everytime POTUS speaks, events take a turn for the worst– chosen sports team lose, stock markets tank, world events turn more horrific.

    Yesterday it was the Obama Doctrine. Today, it’ll be Bush’s fault in 1..2…3..

  • Anonymous

    Having “bought” into the “Arab Spring” fantasy it seems to me that the Administration has boxed itself in. How can they back off and say  “oops” it seems maybe, perhaps, per chance, those we are supporting are not the folks we thought they were.

    The “Rebels” wouldn’t have “won” anything IMO without the tons of bombs dropped from NATO planes. Thus their “win” is far more compromised than the win in Egypt. At least that’s how it looks to me in my own little sphere of ignorance.

    I have “ducked and covered” in anticipation of getting my ignorant head handed to me. (That’s what we were told to do back in the dark ages when I was in school in case of a nuclear attack. It came just before kissing you ass goodbye but they neglected to tell us that part.)

  • http://twitter.com/PennsylvaniaRed PennsylvaniaRed

    off topic but have look “More than 125 NATO oil tankers torched in 3 days – #mathaba: http://t.co/6LU6YUQ

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MCA6QIPPR3EXRQRYL3MVYJSKLQ Joe

      And the EPA is worried about a few measely CO2 emissions killing the planet… the tools in government need to gain proper perspective.

      • Anonymous

        Joe, thanks for pointing that out.

        mr. creeper has been wondering what the “take” is here on the SCOTUS decision to allow EPA to shut down any power plants it deems “dirty”.  I hadn’t seen anything till your comment.  Nice to know it hasn’t entirely escaped attention.

        • Anonymous

          It escapes the attention of most of the MSM because they are convinced of the righteousness of their “green” cause.

          Thus anything that might even hint that things they do to “save” the planet might be detrimental to the people that live here is considered immaterial.

          Maybe they think only millionaires and billionaires will be paying more  or sitting in the dark.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MCA6QIPPR3EXRQRYL3MVYJSKLQ Joe

          Yes indeeed.

          Drudge had a link up on this, and you could plainly see that the white smoke coming from the smoke stack, had been photoshopped to look black.

    • William L. Donlon

      PennsylvaniaRed:

      Who is Mathaba when they are to home????

      I’m not picking this up any place else —- Are you.

      The BBC, Nada!
       Al Jazeera Nada!

      Nothing out of India, China, or Russia.

      They all covered the Oil Tanker fires when the Border Crossing was closed earlier??????

      The reports of four drones down are also not covered. 

      Is this Accurate?? or Mathaba Bull shit???

      Just asking.

      • http://twitter.com/PennsylvaniaRed PennsylvaniaRed
        • William L. Donlon

           One hundred and twenty five NATO oil lorries have not been destroyed in the last three days in the Afgan theater.

          I found the picture at least three times, it was first posted in Oct. 2010 when the Border was closed and the Lorries were Q’ed and sitting targets.

          There was an attack on 10 lorries reported by MSNBC on 8/1/11  and 16 people killed when one blew up Two weeks ago.

          NATO may have lost 125 lorries total in the last year but not in the last three days that I can find.

          Aljazeera, BBC India? Russia? China? — Nada.

          I find a lot of “Rehash” that grows over time on some of these “Web Outlets”.

          That’s why I wait for the BBC & Aljazeera.

      • http://twitter.com/PennsylvaniaRed PennsylvaniaRed

        here is another one http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/23-Aug-2011/19-oil-tankers-set-on-fire

        QUETTA – At least 19 oil tankers carrying fuel to the US-led coalition
        forces in Afghanistan were set on fire in an attack in Dasht area of
        Mastung district, some 30 KM southeast of Quetta, on Monday.
        Official
        sources said the tankers were making queue along the main
        Quetta-Jacobabad national highway and waiting for the escorts to be
        provided by the Balochistan Levies Force and Frontier Corps for their
        safe destination in Quetta. Meanwhile, some armed men appeared on the
        scene in a car and fired gunshots in the air warning the people to leave
        their vehicles and then opened indiscriminate fire on the oil tankers.
        Consequently, all the tankers caught fire and reduced to ashes.

  • William L. Donlon

    Spot On Larry!

    The Wheel is still in spin!

    Saif may have adapted

    Close in urban fighting neutralizes the Rebel’s NATO assets.

    Saif’s version of ” Grab them by the belt buckle”???

    This could turn into Stalingrad with the Rebels being the German 6th under Von Paulus.

    • Wbboe

      Interesting comparison. Napoleon maintained that the defensive is the stronger position.  In this case, it is the fortified, well armed and desperate defensive that know that surrender means torture and quite possibly death. 

  • Anonymous

    Eventually someone within the rebel ranks more skilled at killing off his competition and their supporters will emerge as the new leader and dictator of Libya. Just give it time.

  • Anonymous

    Eventually someone within the rebel ranks more skilled at killing off his competition and their supporters will emerge as the new leader and dictator of Libya. Just give it time.