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why do the automakers need a bailout?

Because people aren’t buying their cars? Now, I am no car expert. When I bought my last car and someone asked me what it was, I said it was a red convertible. And when they asked about horse power, and safety options I said it has an electric top, windows, and the seats heat up – and a cool stereo system. See my point? And as far as why the auto industry needs a bailout, I am simply thinking and questioning this, as an average American consumer.

So, again, why does the industry need a bailout? Because they don’t produce the cars that people want? Because people want cars made overseas because they are more stylish? efficient? cheaper? Is it because of poor management? Out of the world pension plans?

I always suspected that US automakers weren’t producing smaller hybrids and fuel efficient cars because they were succumbing to pressures from Oil lobbyists, (Kind of like the lore of the light bulb that could last for years and years, but would destroy the light bulb industry) and because of profit margins.

Like, why do they have so many of the auto parts made overseas? Because people want cheaper cars? Because this increases the profit margin? Basically, were thousands of jobs shipped overseas so the head honchos could make more moolah?

And why do consumers want to trade their cars in all the time? Didn’t people used to buy a car and keep it for years, and years? Now it seems people turn over cars every two years. It seems to me that if you can buy a good solid car that lasts a long time, it would be worth it to have a car that was manufactured entirely in the US, and pay a little bit more for it?

It seems to me that automakers, like every other company in America, have been driven by greed and profit, and not looking to the future. How long has Al Gore been studying and talking about global warming (like 30 years!)? How long has the Prius been on the road? (it launched in Japan in Dec. 97, and in the US in 1999)

And how long have US automakers been producing SUV’s? Are they really producing cars that the people want, or are they producing cars that they are telling the consumer they need to have?

In the case of SUV consumers, the auto company marketers start by implanting the subliminal message you can be tough, independent and sexy, if ya buy and drive our brand of SUV. Notice many ads show an SUV in a wilderness, the H2 ads show it off roading in Iceland (the viewer is shown beautiful people conquering nature and having fun). In some National Geographic print ads for Toyota, they show back packers with their SUVs in the wilderness, with the slogan “oh what a feeling.” The basic idea of an auto company ad campaign is to associate driving their SUV with the idea of being sexy, tough and independent. The tough and independent image of driving an SUV is further reinforced by the name of the vehicle (Path Finder, Trail Blazer, Mountaineer, Escape, Explorer, Expedition, etc.). Constant exposure to slick ads fools people into thinking they can “walk the walk” of being independent and tough just by buying the SUV shown in the idealized dreamland of advertisers. If you do not think SUV propaganda effects the consumer, then ask your self is it just a coincidence that SUVs became trendy after SUV advertising rose nearly nine-fold from $172.5 million in 1990 to $1.5 billion in 2000.” Read more here, it is quite entertaining, and informative.

The advertising budget in 2008 for GM was $3.01B, Ford’s was $2.53B and Chrysler spent $1.74B. That is over $7 billion dollars to convince consumers to buy their gas guzzling vehicles. I would think they could have taken a portion of those dollars to revamp the production lines to produce more hybrids….

When the SUV first came out, some people bought them up but they were a luxury item. But over time, they became the staple on the road. The reason, in my opinion? Because we were told they were much safer to have, in case of a collision – with another SUV.

Is there more profit in producing and selling an SUV vs. a small energy efficient car?

US automakers could enjoy profit margins of $10,000 per SUV, while losing a few hundred dollars on a compact car. For instance, the Ford Excursion could net the company $18,000, while they could not break even with the Ford Focus unless the buyer chose options. This led to Detroit’s big three automakers focusing resources and design on SUVs over small cars (small cars were sold mainly to attract young buyers with inexpensive options and to increase their fleet average fuel economies to meet federal standards). The high wages of unionized workers in the United States and Canada (members of the UAW and CAW, respectively), compared to non-union workers such as that of Toyota, meant that it was unprofitable to have them build small cars. The General Motors Arlington, Texas factory where rear-wheel drive cars were built, such as the Chevrolet Caprice, Buick Roadmaster, and Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham was converted to truck and SUV production, putting an end to full-size family station wagon and overall terminating production of rear-wheel drive full-size cars. As a result of the shift in the Big Three’s strategy, many long-running cars like the Ford Taurus, Buick Century, and Pontiac Grand Prix eventually fell behind their Japanese competition in features and image (relying more upon fleet sales instead of retail and/or heavy incentive discounts), some being discontinued.”

I think instead of putting the billions towards building a new production line that would produce hybrids and fuel efficient autos, the US auto industry spent billions in advertising to convince the consumer to buy SUV’s.

Like I said, I always assumed the lack of vision wrt the type of cars being produced by US automakers was driven by pressure from the oil industry and auto dealers. Big expensive gas guzzling vehicles. And I always believed jobs were shipped overseas to increase the profit margins. Some have started to produce energy efficient/hybrids, but is it too little, too late?

Because, in a country that supposedly has the most brilliant minds, designers, thinkers, scientists, and work force, I don’t understand why the automakers are failing and need a bailout. We should be better than this.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I love capitalism. I love new shiny cars. And having driven many different luxury SUVs (borrowed from family members while visiting, I don’t own one), I can see why people buy them. They are nice and tall, and you feel safe, and powerful, and they are super fancy. And they smell good, all leathery. And my sister in law owns one of those with 7 seats, but she uses it constantly, to haul kids, and carpools, and her parents around. So, from that point of view, they are handy, when you are constantly shuttling massive amounts of kids around.


(This pic just cracks me up)

But, far too many people use them as a single car for commuting. And that is crazy! Our friend here in Italy is a lawyer, and uber rich. He bought a Porsche Cayenne but after a few months of paying for the gas (which is WAY more expensive here) and trying to find parking, he bought a Smart Car. They are simply a waste of money. And a pollutant. It is like taking hundreds of dollars every month, and just burning it.

So, it seems to me, that the auto industry does not really deserve a bailout. They got themselves into this position, in my opinion, because of greed, profit, and lack of vision. I understand that thousands of jobs are at risk, but did the automakers just now realize this? They have been sending jobs overseas for a long time, now, to increase their profits. They didn’t care too much about those workers who lost their jobs then.

So, how do we help our economy, save those jobs, and maintain our auto industry in the US? Massive overhaul? Bring the jobs back? Update the production lines, immediately? Take the retirement packages, and massive salaries away from the CEO’s and higher ups? How about employee buy in packages? Then the employees own the companies, instead of the government or tax payers?

I don’t know. It just doesn’t seem right to give them a bailout. You reap what you sow? And maybe we can all take a hard look at consumption and make some much needed changes?

  • AnninCA

    One issue that is continuous with capitalism is that desire drives commerce.

    I was amazed in the last decade with the number of people who desired huge honking SUVs.

    I never got it.

    I get the mini-vans for families or the med-sized SUV’s for those who need that type of space. I don’t get driving 2 small cars everywhere.

    But still…..those big honking cars?

    The public’s desire for this is huge.

    We have a part to play.

    I’m not sold on hybrids, btw. I still don’t get what I’m suppose to do with this battery that poops out after 5 years.

    • Judy L. NC

      You’ll have to pry the keys to my SUV out of my cold, dead hands. I’m guessing you’re a city gal. I live in the country and often haul landscaping materials for my 1 ac. property. My nephew who lives with me is a peritoneal dialysis patient and when we take a road trip he must take cartons upon cartons of medical supplies along. I enjoy fishing which often involves off road travel to some locations. To top it all off, the bulk of my SUV saved my life when a carload of speeding illegal aliens wishboned me. Oh, and btw, it’s paid for. I never joyride and I try to get all my errands done during my commute trips.

      Do I have to move and give up the life I love to get better gas mileage?

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        not speaking for anninca, but for me, I don’t think people are talking about people like you when they don’t understand why people have SUVs. I am talking about the ones who live in the city, and drive around town in hummers and land cruisers. i think SUVs can serve a great purpose, for those who USE them as they were originally intended. but, i can tell you, there are millions who don’t use them like you do.

        • AnninCA

          Ditto.

          I have a mid-size SUV. Toyota Highlander. However, I take teens camping as part of my own community service. I’m also single and can actually load my SUV with ease.

          It works for me.

          It’s not ideal for gas. It is ideal for my life.

          • Judy L. NC

            So, Ann, you’re criticizing what you perceive as “huge, honking” SUV’s. Many people can’t tell us apart.

        • Judy L. NC

          While I have no statistics at all to back this up, MY gut tells me most SUV owners buy them to keep themselves and their families safe.

          • AnninCA

            Many are just into image buying.

            That’s why they are in trouble, too.

            Bigger houses than they can afford. Bigger cars, too.

            Come on…..this last decade has been high-octane fuel for consumerism.

            Frankly, when Pelosi Inc. says we need to “stimulate,” I think…….no.

            We need to calm down.

          • Rob G in Chicago

            While taking my family to meet my parents for dinner while they were visiting Chicago, we were broadsided in the middle of an intersection by a car that ran a red light because he was being chansed by gangbangers (shots had been fired at him). He hit us broadside at about 50 mph, and we rolled over three times, finally coming to rest on the left side. I was pulled out through the windshield (windshield was somewhere back on the road). My wife was suspended in her seat belt above me. Kids were also belted in. Our large Lexus SUV was damaged on every pannel, but there was no intrusion into the passenger cabin whatsoever, and none of us was injured at all. The guy that hit us, well he may as well have caught a bullet. Since then, I’ve had a real fondness for the gas guzzlers.

            • Diana L. C.

              But my nephew was saved by a small VW something or other when a drunk, illegal with no license driving someone else’s older battleship-style car rammed him into a wall under an overpass. The car was completely gone, but the passenger’s compartment was in tact.

              Small cars can be designed for saftey.

              The point is really to me about how long they hold up. How long will they keep on working? How long can you still get the parts? Etc. Sometimes the American cars seem to have built-in obsolescence. (I think I spelled that right.)

              • samb

                Parts can be generally purchased or special ordered even if the car is discontinued , foreign cars can also be discontinued, some foreign are US made the all though we talk only about the Big 3 auto companys the foreign market maybe hurt here too.

              • Judy L. NC

                My little sister was killed in a VW Beetle 40 years ago. I haven’t been in one since. You’ll have a hard time convincing me to your way of thinking.

            • TeakWoodKite

              Rob G in Chicago; There is nothing like Detroit Steel. That said,

              Recently, my daughter went over a cliff and 180 feet down the side of the mountain, north of Legget Ca.
              Roled four times and came to rest against a tree, which saved her life. She would have gone in to Eel in class 5 rapids, due to the fact it had been raining buckets. She was banged up, but nothing broken.
              It was a Jeep Grand Cherokee. So I’ve had a real fondness for the gas guzzlers, as well. I did not have the guts to look at how smashed up the passenger side was…Just glad the car and the tree saved her life.

            • Judy L. NC

              That’s quite a story, Rob. Glad you made it out alive. I drive a 4Runner. Toyota definitely knows what they’re doing.

          • Rob G in Chicago

            While taking my family to meet my parents for dinner while they were visiting Chicago, we were broadsided in the middle of an intersection by a car that ran a red light because he was being chased by gangbangers (shots had been fired at him). He hit us broadside at about 50 mph, and we rolled over three times, finally coming to rest on the left side. I was pulled out through the windshield (windshield was somewhere back on the road). My wife was suspended in her seat belt above me. Kids were also belted in. Our large Lexus SUV was damaged on every pannel, but there was no intrusion into the passenger cabin whatsoever, and none of us was injured at all. The guy that hit us, well he may as well have caught a bullet. Since then, I’ve had a real fondness for the gas guzzlers.

            • Rob G in Chicago

              sorry for the double posting (next time I’ll wait until after I sneeze to hit the “add comment button”)

          • ces

            SUVs aren’t safer.

            People just think they are.

            It’s called MARKETING.

            • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

              bingo. i know… i worked in advertising for ~15 years. and ford was a client at my agency.

          • deborah

            The fact is that SUV’s are not safer, they are built on truck frames and are not safer. The fact is that if you drive a sedan and get hit by an SUV you have a 50% greater chance of being killed.
            It’s just another example of my gun is bigger than yours!

        • socalannie

          Exactly. I live in a county & drive to the nearest town for shopping. It is an upscale town. In the main grocery store, the parking lot is full of hummers and huge luxury suvs. I see them pull in & pull out with one person (the driver) inside. I drive a compact, which is dwarfed by these monsters. Obviously, there are people who need big trucks & suvs for their business, or ranches, farms, or little league teams or whatever. But I bellieve a very large percentage of the big suvs on the road are bought purely for ego. Some people are imbued with the idea that they must have the biggest and best, and don’t care about saving $ or gas, don’t care if they take up twice as much space on the freeways or parking lots & certainly don’t care if they add several times the amount of smog to the air than my tiny compact. They don’t care if they use 3 times the amount of gas I use to go the same distance & they don’t care if their consumer choices come with the high cost of the country being in thrall to the middle east for oil.

          Eventually, they will probably get stuck with a “gas guzzler” tax, which is being talked about in many states. And if they do…I won’t care!

      • JustMe

        Judy bless you for looking after your nephew a dialysis patient !! Hard work and commitment there..

        • Judy L. NC

          You bet your ass. . .

  • sevan

    So we had snow in the plains. (40 inches) Now we have huge snowfall in the lakes area. Gas is back down and we will see great SUV sales before year end. How quickly things change.

    • AnninCA

      I don’t think so.

      People really got it finally.

      Just my personal prediction.

      NOBODY wants big SUVs now.

    • mkm125

      I agree–gas in Texas in now less than $2.00 gallon–I wonder what is going to happen to sales now….

      • samb

        layoffs , dealerships closes people are unemployed. One of the largest and oldest dealership closed in Texas, sorry i don’t remember the name.

        • samb
          • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            “The statement says the company didn’t have the resources to continue operating. It cites factors including rising fuel prices, an inventory dominated by trucks and SUVs, economic recession, unfavorable market conditions and the current banking and financial crises.”

            • samb

              SO YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, YOU CAN’T AFFORD GAS, YOU CAN’T AFFORD A CAR, WORKERS CAN’T GET PAYED YOU LOSE YOUR HOUSE COMPANIES CAN’T SELL THERE GOODS, MORE PEOPLE LOSE THERE JOBS I GUESS THEY SHOULD HAVE WRITTEN THAT INSTEAD. SO YOU CAN GET A GREATER UNDERSTAND. MIS-MANAGEMENT IS THE PROBLEM , BUT IT TRICKLES DOWN AND IF YOUR REALLY LUCKY IT WON’T TRICKLE DOWN TO YOU AND YES THE BAIL OUT GOOD OR BAD WE ALL PAY, BUT SOME OF US WILL PAY WITH JOBS AND HOMES

              • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

                it does indeed suck… i am glad i am not in the position to have to make that decision. it just seems like there should be some penatly/punishment/consequence for companies like this, that create these problems. and i am not sure if a bailout will even help. it didn’t help last month.

                my uncle had to close one of his dealerships because of poor sales.

  • Seattle Moss

    I have always been for bailing out the auto companies.
    Heck, I drive a big Chrysler and love it
    So I’m emotionally attached…

    However, after listening to Mark Levin I realize that maybe we should just let them go bankrupt and then reorganize. As Levin says the infrastructure to make cars is there and will be there after restructuring.
    Maybe we should let the system work. Companies succeed or fail but the market will change them and just putting off the inevitable just causes more pain later.

    • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

      I agree wholeheartedly with American Girl, the automobile industry has been asleep at the wheel (pun intended), when it comes to making desirable and efficient cars. They went for the inefficient SUVs and now they are crying for a hand out. Bad management should not be rewarded. I’m sick of this corporate welfare.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        i just love when people wholeheartedly agree with me. hehe :O)

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    I read about the $70/hour union paid employees in the other thread and that is a major issue, too. That is incredible.

    • Patrick Walker

      Is it REALLY that they are paid that much or that everyone else isn’t? There is a reason why management doesn’t like unions because then they cannot have a workforce largely driven by continued downward pressure on the minimum wage.

      It’s not that they make too much.

      It’s that most make too little.

      • ces

        Sorry Patrick, but they make too much.

        $70,000 to install a driver’s side window for 10 hours a day, four days a week is WAY too much.

        Plus their benefits which are outrageous compared to the normal/average American worker.

        Ford’s Expedition/Navigator plant near Detroit made 25% of Ford’s profit…for the their entire (at least US) company. And their plant had 25% absentee rate. And nobody can say anything because they are union. The unions have their special ergonomic setups, at Ford’s expense, and know what? they people don’t even use some of them because they get in the way.

        Anybody who sits on a line, pulling transmissions hung from chains and a handheld controller (meaning they don’t have lift a damn thing), can smoke endless cigarettes and listen to a boombox AND makes $70,000 a year IS MAKING TOO MUCH.

        And don’t even get me started on the electricians who sit in their cage, punch out early and still make $50/hr+.

        These people all have a second house “up north”, have boats and get more vacation than any of us.

        I don’t pity them at all.

        • Ross

          i am a union employee work for ford motor i dont make 70,000 a year i dont have a hoist to lift my parts which can be in exess of 70 lbs and lifting the next one in 55 seconds but when u look at some of the jobs my friends have where the company forces them to sign off on there work 90 days and get hired in full time and they are forced to be a temperary employee for how ever long the company sees fit (know some one who works for IBM for 3 years still temperary was actually fired after 10 years than rehired doin same job) but i belive fully in the unions so that doesnt happen to empolyees what does smokin cigerates have to do with anything either yep tho sum ppl will take advantage of the system where theres a loop hope and take off 25% off there work week but they do not get paid for that tat time off so thoes are not the ones comin close to 70,000 a year either. as far as ergonomics goes alot of it was set up for a different person that worked that possition prior to u being there so yes it can get in your way but alot of it is very helpfull and the electricians who sit in there “cages” we dont constantly have electrical problems but but when we do we need some one one site to fix them immediatly because every minute that the line is down we lose hundreds of thousands of dollars that we cant make back up its lost time so its cheaper to have him there doing nothing in case we need him than to wait for a problem to acure and then call in an out side company to come fix the issue. i have no boat i have no second house actually i dont have a first house i rent 2 weeks vacation yes i love my benifits they are nice but if u dont like what u make an hour or dont like your benifits come put in your application at ford and stop bitching bout what we make what we get in benifits our time off and how much we have to work

      • tek

        Yes, but it is a tradeoff. If they workers a real margin of the profits, then CEOs couldn’t make 40 million a year. It has ever been thus; hence the unrelenting search for cheap or even slave labor.

    • Mydress

      And how about 7000 GM dealership vs. 1500 Toyota dealership. Nobody talks to close at least 1/2 of them. Just bailout.

  • S. Markom

    I think the road to a bailout is through Cahpter 11 restructuring in bankruptcy court.

    The unions will be told what their new contracts are and the courst will assign far better management to run GM and the others.

    I currently own a BMW and an Acura but I have to admit that the best car I have owned was a Lincoln LS. The problems with American car manufacturers are partly what you hit on which is part of an overal strategic direction.

    When SUVs, Minivans, and Pickup Trucks became popular these three companies never foresaw that it would result in massively more gas consumption and an eventual energy problem. They also ignored the issue of striving for environmentally synergistic autos as the Japanese and Koreans did.

    There is another factor which you referred to which is marketing. They have spent considerable money on selling their autos but they have been unable to make thier brand names relevant to newer generations of Americans. How many young people do you know drive a Cadillac? Is Buick still a viable brand?

    They need to commit massive innovation which includes more advanced technology NOW and a rebranding of their cars. That in addition to creating a more economically favorable union situation.

    It can be done. But it will not get done because Pelosi and the Michigan delegation will make sure that Detroit gets its bailout and leaves the unions alone.

    This will mean that they will be back for more money by June.

    • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

      I totally agree on Chapter 11. If we throw money at them, it will all go to salaries and benefits, not to mention the fact that their “legacy” costs are huge. Over the period of decades, how many people have retired from GM? People retired at 60 and are living till 90 now. The costs are staggering and it is non-value-added cost. That is, it has nothing to do with the product or production. Pure overhead. Each year, the snowball gets bigger. Then there are the layers of managers, something the Japanese did away with long ago. And the inflexible workers with rigid job descriptions.

      The Japanese ate our lunch in the auto arena long ago, focusing on quality and on what the customer wanted. They didn’t design things and then TELL us this is what YOU want. That’s the American Auto industry way. Why is it that Japanese cars can be made here in America using American workers that produced higher quality cars that last longer? What’s missing here? What’s missing is attitude. American auto manufacterer’s from the top on down are more focused on earning money and bennies than they are on quality. I’m sure materials are cut for cost. I’m sure production schedules are speeded up. Ship Ship Ship! If it’s broken, we’ll fix it later! I’ve spent a long time in production-oriented corporate America and I can see what is happening without even looking.

      They need Chapter 11 if we expect an attitude adjustment. If we just throw money at them, the money will go to salaries and benefits until it runs out and they come back for more.

      Frankly, I no longer buy American cars. Not because I don’t believe in Buying American, but because I got sick of being screwed, giving them another chance, and getting screwed again. If they can’t produce better cars then they don’t deserve to stay in business.

      My last American car was a Lincoln Continental. Inside of two years, the electronic suspension system sunk to the ground; the heated windshield cracked like a spider before my eyes. I replaced four batteries in the car. The heated seat smoked. The transmission went with 17k miles on the car. There were no less than a dozen safety recalls and the rear struts crapped out. And that’s the short list. Why would I pay that kind of money for crap again?

      That was my last American car. But it wasn’t the first American car that I felt ripped off over. I am all for Buy American, but a car is the second biggest purchase you can ever make for the most part. And it doesn’t give American Auto companies the right to screw me every time I try to Buy American. I gave up. I no longer buy American cars. I kept giving them one more chance, but in the end, I was a sucker. That’s how I felt. I haven’t bought an American car since 1990. I am not giving them any more chances. I wish I had the money I wasted on repairs their crappy cars.

      Now I drive cars that give me reliability and piece of mind. Cars that I know won’t go to hell in a hand basket in two years. And they cost less too!

      As for building more efficient cars….I heard them say the same crap and make the same promises during the Carter administration. But as soon as the oil problem eased up, they went right back to their old ways, producing hogs just like they always did.

      I say tell the to chapter and then throw Mitt Romney at them to straighten out their bones.

      • TeakWoodKite

        The heated seat smoked.

        That’s ’cause you’re on fire Uppity Woman. LOL

        I agree. As part of the Chap 11, they should be prevented from selling the Tool and Die equipment.

        That is what happened to many factories in the last 30 years. All that equipment went to China and elsewhere.

        Hell we don’t even make our own shoes in this country.

        • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

          The heated seat smoked.

          That’s ’cause you’re on fire Uppity Woman. LOL

          LOL! I asked for that.

        • S. Markom

          Inside of two years, the electronic suspension system sunk to the ground

          It’s supposed to. That way you get more of a feel of the road.

          the heated windshield cracked like a spider before my eyes.

          that’s done to give you a more refracted look at the road.

          I replaced four batteries in the car.

          You might want to think about turning off the portable home theatre system you installed in the car including the 54″ Plasma screen.

          The heated seat smoked.

          Did they use filtered or non-filtered?

          The transmission went with 17k miles on the car.

          I would hope it would go even with one mile on the car. How else does the car go?

          the rear struts crapped out.

          we all have to go sometime.

          But seriously “then throw Mitt Romney at them to straighten out their bones” is a brilliant idea.

        • Mr. Natural

          Why is it that Japanese cars can be made here in America using American workers that produced higher quality cars that last longer?

          They do not.

          What’s missing here? What’s missing is attitude. American auto manufacterer’s from the top on down are more focused on earning money and bennies than they are on quality.

          Wrong again.

          I’m sure materials are cut for cost. I’m sure production schedules are speeded up. Ship Ship Ship! If it’s broken, we’ll fix it later!

          Again you’re wrong.

          I’ve spent a long time in production-oriented corporate America and I can see what is happening without even looking.

          That’s obvious. Why let mere fact stand between you and a blustering opinion?

  • JB

    While these are some salient points, you miss a few:

    1) 1 out of every 10 jobs in this country is tied to the auto industry. While it may seem like no big deal to let at least 3 million people lose their jobs, that’s also 3 million people that won’t be paying taxes, paying their credit cards, paying their mortgages, or spending their income anywhere else. That will affect banks, restaurants, retail stores, medical facilities, etc. They will however, be people who will be using social services more (welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc.)

    2) There exists a myth that foreign cars are better than American. That may have been true 30 years ago, but facts don’t bear that out.

    3) Foreign car companies don’t have the legacy costs that American companies do. While people are debating this in the abstract, promises were made to these people and their dependents 40 years ago that they would be taken care of. Those people help up their end of the bargain and worked, and now the auto companies have to hold up their end. What they should do now, is grandfather those close to retirement and younger workers should not necessarily have those same guarantees. But to tell my 89 year old grandmother that, sorry, she has to go get a job now, is just ridiculous.

    4) For decades, the US allowed foreign companies to ship their cars here and sell them with little or no trade barriers, while US automakers were not afforded the same courtesy. As a result, they were able to bring their cheap cars here and undercut American cars.

    I realize changes have to be made by the auto companies and the unions. However, just saying, “too bad” is not the answer either. Frankly, if we can bail out AIG (with no assurances of getting the money back), I think a loan to the auto companies (where there is a precedent of Chrysler paying back the government with $350 million interest) is a better investment.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      1. don’t you think the auto industry should have thought about that 10 years ago?

      2. i don’t think i said foreign cars are better than US cars.

      3. huh?

      4. good point.

      As far as too bad, I don’t think I said that either. But many companies come and go and do not get bailouts. i was a product of layoffs after the start up crash, no one bailed out my company or my dads company, or my friends companies.

      I guess i am more willing to *help* if these companies weren’t in the position they are in because of their own fault.

      • Patrick Walker

        4. Actually, bad point. The US imposes import tarriffs. Only Canada is allowed to import cars into the US without any barriers. Heck, why do you think Toyota and Honda make cars in the US if they could simply build them in Japan and ship them into the US with “no duty”?

        Building them in the US gets them around imposed US trade barriers.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

          that is so NOT an area of my expertise! ;O) I will leave you two to argue that out.

    • S. Markom

      Your points are salient but a simple bailout will not solve the problem.

      These three companies have been grossly mismanaged for decades. Part of that mismanagement has been their poor strategic judgment and implications from that.

      I own a BMW and an Acura but the best car I ever owned was a Lincoln LS. I believe that American care R&D and engineering are better and more advanced than the Japanese. The problem is that management has buried that innovation and been slow to bring it to market.

      In addition their marketing has been awful. How relevant is Cadillac or Buick to newer generations? Chevy and Pontiac used to be very relevant to younger people – not now.

      Unfortunately I truly believe that the only way you will change the fundamental structure and direction of these companies is by forcing them in Chapter 11.

      The alternative is having foreign car companies coming in acquiring controlling interests in these companies.

      • mkm125

        I agree with S.Markom on the R&D and engineering. Almost all cars made today are pretty darn reliable. If am a sucker for using “Consumer Reports” and you will see the American made vehicles score high in reliability too. I currently own a Honda and an Audi but I have to admit, my 2000 Dodge Caravan was actually more reliable than both–but far too boring.

    • Rob G in Chicago

      Bankruptcy does not mean that the companies go out of business. If they reorganize, the courts can assist in restructuring contracts. Without bankruptcy, the auto companies are locked into contractual and pension terms that will continue to render them uncompetitive, and a bailout without court supervised and sanctioned reorganization is just throwing good money after bad.

    • Mydress

      Capitalism is competition. No competition bue-bye capitalism. When I lived in former USSR we did not have problem in auto-industry. It was incredible difficult to buy a car. No forein cars on a market-no competition, very small production and very high price. Nobody talked about quality. Looks like after bailout next step is going to be socialize auto-industry. “Misery likes company”.

      • Mr. Natural

        You’ve been away too long. GM is selling Opels, Chevys, Saabs, Cadillacs and even Hummers in Russia. They’ve even got three assembly lines going. Who knew? St Petersburg, Kaliningrad and one more. I even met the woman who’s been in charge of increasing their sales at a party several months ago. Not in Russia. Here, visiting Detroit.

        But, like someone else said, the big three are run by middle aged men. So she obviously does not exist. Neither, apparently, does my wife.

    • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

      2) There exists a myth that foreign cars are better than American. That may have been true 30 years ago, but facts don’t bear that out.

      Somebody needs to tell that to Consumer Reports for their next Auto rating issue. It’s dismal by comparison.

  • HARP

    My next vehicle. Room for the wife and two dogs. What more do I need. LOL.

    http://www.arsscoot.com/

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      I want that!!!!

    • mkm125

      OMG–that is great. I want a Vespa but it’s too darn hot here in Houston. Then again, I saw a scooter accident with my five-year old in the car and she NEVER wants to even think about riding on a Scooter after seeing the blood on the poor woman’s face. Be careful!

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        scooter roadkill is an every day occurence here… i can’t go one day without seeing a scooter accident.

  • JB

    Count me as one who, if I could have afforded it, would have gotten another SUV. I loved my Chevy Blazers,and I hate sitting so close to the ground and not being able to see around pickups and other SUV’s. I also feel like I could be crunched at any moment by a bigger vehicle.

    Also, the author’s points about single person commuting – while again, great in the abstract, the US is a much bigger country with more wide open spaces than Italy. It’s not necessarily practical to give up your car when you have a 60 mile commute to work. And no, it’s not practical for everyone to move closer to their jobs (especially as most people change jobs every few years).

    We need to find our own solutions and not necessarily look to the tiny countries of Europe or Japan for answers on this type of thing.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      but is it practical to drive a hummer 60 miles to work every day? i lived in WA and I carpooled most of the time. buses suck there, because of the weather, but it is possible to carpool as often as you can. and if at all possible, i think italians love their cars even more than americans.

      and i agree… american shouldn’t HAVE to look to other countries to solve their problems. we are supposed to be *the best and the brightest* or at least pretty darn great. so, why are we lagging in so many areas?

    • Pennsylvania Red

      I loved my Chevy Blazers,and I hate sitting so close to the ground and not being able to see around pickups and other SUV’s.

      That is the primary reason I’m looking for a small to mid SUV. Every other vehicle in these parts is an SUV or a full size truck. I love my little car, the mpg and the handling, but my visibility is limited and therefore presents a safety problem.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        that is where i was going with my post. they have almost become a necessity because every other car on the road is an SUV. You feel too threatened if you aren’t driving a honkin SUV like everyone else. the need was not there for SUVs but the car manufactures created one. (excpet for those living in the wilderness/country)

        • Pennsylvania Red

          another reason -

          I have a long legged man in my life, when he sits in my passenger seat his knees are pushed up against his chin!

          (p.s. the animated gif is hilarious)

          • ces

            I’m 6’5″ and my friend’s Mini (the new one) is more comfortable than some SUVs.

            The exterior size doesn’t always translate to interior room or comfort.

            • Baba Rum Raisin

              Penn Gellette (Penn and Teller – the VERY tall half) drives a MiniCooper. Saw him climb out of it behind Casear’s, much more easily than I egress from my Grand Cherokee, and I’m 6 foot even.

  • pj
    • tek

      HILLARY!!!!

  • JB

    “1. don’t you think the auto industry should have thought about that 10 years ago?”

    I don’t understand what the auto companies thinking about this has to do with anything. 10 years ago, my guess is, it was more like 1 in 7 jobs was tied to the auto industry (suppliers, military, stores, restaurants, etc.) What should they have done then? That’s just the nature of our economy, especially as we don’t make anything here anymore.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      they should have surveyed the future and made better long term decisions, instead of just pushing SUVs…

    • Mr. Natural

      That’s just the nature of our economy, especially as we don’t make anything here anymore.

      That’s another tired cliche.

      Sorry guys; I’m losing patience.

      If you want to bash America, at least get your facts and econometric data correct.

  • csuzeq

    Why bother voting? They already have the cover made with That One’s face on it already, no doubt!

    • csuzeq

      Oops this was in reply to the TIME magazine comment. don’t know how it got down here, but Oh, well.

      I stand by my statement just like Biden stands by BO not being qualified. LOL!

  • HC

    American auto is not run like a business.

    It is run like an arm of the US government.

    There is no “tweak” to fix this.

    American automobile manufacturers are badly run, choked by massive unions, and under about a billion different federal and state regulations that pretty much guarantee mediocrity at best.

    The fact that any American manufacturer, car or otherwise, can turn a profit amazes me.

  • George Smathers

    The auto companies do not need a bailout, but need an economic, tax, trade and industrial policy that allows them to compete on an equal par with their foreign competitors, especially the Asians. Even Toyota got caught up in the bigger is better game, gas guzzlers accounting for most of their products and profits too, and is now virtually giving away its Highlanders and Tacomas. GM has developed a dual mode hybrid system that is far more advanced than Toyota’s and is set for introduction in addition to their existing hybrids vehicles.

    What Toyota has that GM doesn’t is a friendly government behind it. Toyota receives a healthy tax credit for every Prius and other hybrid it manufactures in Japan to subsidize the cost of the vehicle to make it competitive in the marketplace (to overcome the inherent cost disadvantage of having two parallel propulsion systems in a single vehicle) plus keep the manufacturing jobs in Japan. The hybrid was not so much as enlightened thinking as it was an industrial policy that made it possible to produce and sell with heavy government subsidy.

    THe foreign producers like Toyota were also free to set up greenfield assembly in the US, often with communities and states competing for the assembly plants with a bag of goodies including tax relief and land grants. That gave the new plants in the US an inherent cost advantage over the existing US plants with their legacy costs. At one time, GM had a cost disadvantage of $3500 per vehicle over a vehicle produced at a new transplant facility. GM has been able to reduce that cost disadvantage and has almost achieved cost parity withy Toyota, which has been reflected in the increased competiveness of all GM vehilcles in cost and quality, many of them besting Toyota’s quality for competing models, as seen in Consumer Reports and JD Powers rankings.

    Yet, as GM and all the others, Europeans included, try to compete in Japan, Korea and China, they are unable to set up their own wholly owned facilities but must instead become no more than a minority in a local joint venture with a local company. Example, Ford can only own 36% of Mazda as a pipeline to have any presence in Japan. Fords prior to WWII was the number one producer in Japan until nationalized by the imperial government. GM had to buy a bankrupt Daewoo to get into Korea. China requires a joint venture with and technology transfer to one of its many of local car companies in order for a foreign producer to set up shop in China. It makes it hard to win in the US when you can not attack your foreign competitors in their home market.

    Currency exchange rates also play a part in the trade imbalance. China and Japan peg their currency to the dollar as to maintain a favorable exchange rate in order to subsidize their exports to the US. Our tax and trade policy, in the name of protecting manufacturing jobs, has done more to ship those jobs overseas than any other single factor. If we give the foreign corporation the advantage to compete in the US economy, our own corporations must therefore become foreign too.

    All is not lost for GM and Ford, they still have major prominence in markets outside the US, especially Europe and Australia. Chevy has become the largest importer into Russia and the fastest growing nameplate in Europe. Ford and GM still command a significant portion of the balkanized European market. Buick is the largest foreign nameplate in China having over taken the wide lead Volkswagen had early on.

    Instead of a bailout to US automakers, give them what they really need to compete globally, relief from legacy costs to keep their manufacturing in the US and the trade and tax rules that put them on equal par with their competitors in markets outside the US, especially in Asia where the governments protect the local market from foreign competition.

    • brodie

      Good analysis!

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      I didn’t get half of that, but it sounds good! haha

    • Mr. Natural

      Thank you. Thank you for arguing the merits of the case rather than spewing cliche like a few here.

      GM has developed a dual mode hybrid system that is far more advanced than Toyota’s and is set for introduction in addition to their existing hybrids vehicles.

      The dual mode powertrain is an brilliant piece of engineering, the equal of anything anywhere in the automotive industry.

      It breaks my freakin’ heart to read the comments of some of these posters.

  • HC

    Linking an article about the failures of American auto to an article about happy happy hybrids doesn’t really do either topic justice.

    You dont think people should drive SUVs, fine, thats your feeling.

    American auto could make nothing but hybrids that run on unicorn farts and we would still be in this situation.

    Until car companies are run like actual businesses and not like an arm of the government married to huge union workfare programs, nothing will change.

    As I said before, I am surprised they turn a profit at all, ever. Profit seems to be a dirty word in many circles these days.

    • lark

      Profit at the expense of the future.

      • HC

        You may feel that profits come at the expense of the future, whatever that means. But “lack of making a profit” is precisely why auto makers need a bailout.

        Car makers are not going under because they arent politically correct enough. They are going out of business because they havent run a normally functioning enterprise in years. They are a quagmire of collective bargaining and government driven rules and regs under which any business would probably fail.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

          it is not about being politically correct. it is about doing their job.

          they didn’t analyze the big picture, try to predict where the car market would go, look at the competition, and what is selling, consider the oil industry, take into account gloabl warming, and watch their declining SUV sales, diversify, and invest in new technologies. they pumped out huge suvs that have huge profit margins.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      dude, the car crisis is not my fault. and as i said, many members of my family drive suvs. i don’t think anyone can honestly argue that they are gas guzzlers, and that they are suffering in sales now because of the gas prices, and people trying to go green. the article i linked to had some valid info in it. i don’t really think your sarcasm about fairy farts is going to solve the problem, or is constructive either. i don’t really think it is necessary to be so snarky.

      if you have the solutions, why don’t you write someone and fix the problem?

  • mkm125

    By the way–the picture of Obama, HRC, etc. in the Jeep is priceless!~ That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks for sharing.

    Also, HC–would “unicorn farts” be considered an alternative energy source?

  • lark

    Yeah, but no one is answering the question,

    why do the automakers need a bailout? »

    They need a bailout because of university students and university faculty. That is mediocre curriculum and mediocre university students in the country. What goes for higher education is mediocre education.

    No I am not going to explain. But university faculty just loves to accolade and pamper the auto industry executives and have them as guest and gear their efforts to make them look superb. It makes for great writings in publications and easy dissertations. University students also love to get their credits from classes by writing little essays and passing multiple question tests.

    And that’s why the auto industry needs a bailout. Because universities just care about enrolling students and getting their fees paid and students just care about paying fees and getting their degrees. Nothing more nothing less.

    This is one that I cannot blame preachers and pastors for.

    • AnninCA

      Well, you said you weren’t going to explain, so I’ll not expect it.

      But this is a far reach.

      college professors and car industry?

      *blink*

      • Mr. Natural

        There is a link but that ain’t it.

    • tek

      I am an academic and I have no idea what you are talking about.

  • brodie

    Hey- I have an idea- how about letting the oil companies (who’ve just gotten record profits for quite a while) help their buddies in the auto industry? After all, they need each other and seem to have been working together in their nonsensical refusal to grasp how much foreign oil dependency and rotten gas mileage go together to create the mess we’re presently in. I’ve known we need fuel efficient cars for a very long time. If I can figure it out, what the heck is their problem? Greed? Stupidity? I love my Neon and I’ll keep this one for at least ten years as I did the one before it. I used to have foreign cars, but switched to buying American. If only the American car makers would support their loyal customers by creating safe, fuel-efficient, long-lasting cars that will help solve our problems. There are many issues here- interchangeability of parts, creating vehicles which can be completely recycled, moving away from food-based biofuels to cellulosic biofuels, etc. that are making our problems so much worse than they needed to be. How about rewarding innovation and new ideas, instead of sales of over-wrought, enormous vehicles that strain sustainability? Too sensible? IF there is a bail-out, it should come w/a ton of restrictions and new guidelines.

    • lark

      We need to build a new way of life in top of this one and once is going, allow this one to go. Something like digital TV.

      I took my daughter to see a building being built close to her home. There I found out that the owner of the property built his new building on top of the old one while the old one still operates. The lessee did not want to give up his lease nor to do any of the options available to him. The owner then proceeded to build his building. Once the building is completed or semi completed, the lessee will be moved to the space that is just outside of his building and resume operation while the old building is removed from under the new building.

      That my friends is amazing. I just stopped there to see it close about 3 hours ago.

  • jwrjr

    Why does the American automotive industry need a bailout? That one is actually simple. The companies need a bailout because they are not in business to make cars. They are in business to make money … and make it right now. They thought that making huge gas-guzzling SUVs was more profitable than making smaller, more efficient cars. (There are people that have legitimate uses for SUVs. They are in the minority.)
    What to do about it? Not so simple. But I can suggest a starting place. Any company receiving a bailout must fire its ‘chief’ officers (CEO, CFO, CIO, etc). Not retired. No “golden parachute”. Not laid off. Not transferred. Fired. For cause.

  • Marian

    The Hummer had a great deal to do with the SUV’s in our area.
    The companies had to put forth the unit that would give them the most for their money.
    My thoughts are that with the insurance tied to the pay package that we are pricing ourselves out of the auto market.
    Personally I think that every sun roof should be a solar panel that helps us along the way, but then I am just one of those ole timers that voted for President Kennedy way back when…

  • samb

    There are real people connected to the automakers bailout whether you are for it or against it, there are the people who make the parts there are people who sell the parts, there are the car sales and sales men there are the office personal there are the mechanics who repair the cars there are the lot porters who do the clean up, there are the dealership. the trickle down is there and all these people do, is go to work each day, so for it or against it, there are very real people in the wake of this mess. These people have children, they have homes, these are people who work hard.

    • tek

      If there’s a bailout to save these hard-working people it should come with strict ultimatums to keep this from ever happening again. It’s getting to be a habit. I even heard the Governor of Detroit (Democrat) whining that the auto companies couldn’t compete and the federal government needed to give them cash infusions. That was two or three years ago. She should have been standing up to CEOs of those companies and telling them to get off their duffs and make reasonable cars, but then they wouldn’t given her billions for her campaigns.

      • samb

        i agree with you oversight is needed, but there is more to this then the automakers who build cars and executive who want the big paychecks, the people I am taking about are people who’s paychecks depend on how much the dealerships makes and most mechanic get paid a flat rate depending on which state they work in,, but if there are no cars to work on there are labor hours, there is no pay. So many dealerships have closed, so when you go to get your car fixed it will cost more and the part you need will cost more so everyone pays. Even if its a foreign car because there hurting too

  • Tom K.

    We went to see the new Bond film this weekend. In one scene, a main character is driving this cute little compact Ford. It was an exciting, fresh design–something we never seem to see from American cars here in America. I looked on the Ford site, and it’s not there. Then I went to the UK Ford site and found it: the Ford Ka. It gets 45 mpg and puts all of the small American cars to shame–the hideous GM Aero for one. And those stupid car companies are wondering why they’re going under.

    I grew up in Detroit, in a family that was firmly entrenched in the auto industry on all sides. At that time, and probably still, the decision makers at the auto companies were all middle-aged + men. Also, Detroit is a weird place. It’s off the beaten track and out of the loop, so those decision makers are making choices in that other world, which is unfortunately completely out of sync with the rest of the country. My brother works at GM as an engineering supervisor, and he’s always going on about how GM has the best cars in the world, blah, blah, blah. He’s indicative of the culture. He’s barely ever been out of Detroit, and doesn’t realize how deficient his perspective is. Disclosure: I drive a Saturn Vue. I get a family discount through my brother, so it was an attractive deal. I really like it and think it looks great. However, it’s a design GM brought in from overseas. It’s the Opel Antara.

    The advertising for the American automakers is no different–the same old all-American cliches, with a particular brand of outdated kitsch and swagger that turns off the car-buying public in the places where people buy the most cars–California for instance. All the foreign companies have been creating interesting quirky commercials for years and catching the interest of young consumer, while the big three speak to the hidebound sensibility of metro Detroit.

    • Mr. Natural

      However, it’s a design GM brought in from overseas. It’s the Opel Antara.

      If they were as hidebound and stupid as you suggest, they wouldn’t be developing all their small cars overseas. Why do you think they own Opel and Hundai and Saab and GM Brasil?

      BTW, Germany has agreed to loan guarantee for Opel.

      Where’s the Love? I never knew Detroit was a dirty word.

      • Mr. Natural

        Daewoo, not Hyundai.

    • Mr. Natural

      At that time, and probably still, the decision makers at the auto companies were all middle-aged + men.

      Perhaps you’d like to tell us how many women occupy top executive posts at Toyota, Honda, VW, or Daimler?

  • cellocat

    I’m not an expert, but I have heard that there are good ways to make SUV’s fuel efficient, but that would reduce (not remove) the profit margin on them. I entirely grant that large vehicles are useful and sometimes necessary for people, but most people who own SUV’s do not need their capacity and never use it. For many people, their need to haul stuff one to 5 times a year could be answered by renting a truck for the day. The rest of the time, like it or not, we HAVE to reduce our emissions and reliance on oil. One important way to do that is moving to more efficient and cleaner cars.

    As for the bailout, I agree with the comment above that if it’s given, then out should go the top leadership with no parachute.

    Giving companies incentives to make products that are better for us and for the environment is good, but rewarding stupidity and a lack of willingness to look the future in the face is not.

    my 2 cents.

    • mkm125

      The car companies can make more fuel efficient SUVs but (and someone can correct me here if I am wrong) I’ve always heard that they fall under some small truck regulation and the car companies benefit from keeping the gas mileage low. I personally drive a Honda Pilot and bought it because at the time (2003) it got the best mileage (20/23) of all the SUVs. I use it to for the kid, two dogs and to tow a camper. However, I offset it with my Audi A3 which is a small car that gets better gas mileage. If I could buy a decent hybrid SUV that tows–I would.

  • capitalist69

    let’s make sure we look at the whole puzzle. The trouble in the credit markets right now means that companies that need quick cash to meet their needs can’t get it (e.g. gm and ford). The credit squeeze is not the fault of these companies, or the fact that the bailout of the banks has not freed up any money (in fact many of these institutions are sitting on hoards of cash looking to buy smaller regional banks) — with a healthier credit market they would be able to raise cash by issuing bonds or preferred stock, as well as taking out loans.

    also, remember that the bailout comes in the form of a loan, which can be profitable to the issuer. the chrysler bailout of 1979 netted the government and the banks who made the loans (which were secured by the govt.) hundreds of millions (in interest payments) over time, so long term the tax payers did not foot the bill at all.

    the auto companies have been poorly run. loans should not be made without stipulations (ceilings on exec pay, dividends, union concessions, etc), but it’s just not accurate to state that their current predicament (and the million+ people directly affected by these companies) is just the result of weak management and bad strategy.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      why are the car companies in the position that they need massive cash loans?

      • Mr. Natural

        If you didn’t know the answer to that you shouldn’t have written this ignorance infused hit piece.

    • Pennsylvania Red

      or the fact that the bailout of the banks has not freed up any money (in fact many of these institutions are sitting on hoards of cash looking to buy smaller regional banks)

      I thought the bailout money was supposed to go to foreclosure relief and new payment plans for homedebtors deemed creditworthy?

  • Baba Rum Raisin

    My first new SUV was a 1971 Chevrolet Blazer.

    Except, we just called it a Truck.

    No leather (not offered), no cruise control (not offered), etc. The interior was painted steel, and the only reason it had carpeting was because I cut a piece of indoor/outdoor to fit.

    Was laughed at by family and friends because it had an automatic transmission and power steering…and, AIR CONDITIONING!

    The big SOB got about 15 mpg in town and 18 on the open highway and would take me, three or four kids, two hunting dogs and other implements of destruction nearly anywhere.

    Had to buy a “nice car” for the wife, because she wasn’t going to be seen in, “A damned old pickup truck.”

    NOW: Even the most miserly Tattooed Yuppie Wannabe skirt wouldn’t ride in anything without satellite radio, Wi-Fi connectivity, GPS display, rear seat IMAX, full-time 4WD and gen-you-wine tail light guards, just in case she’s attacked by a rhinoceros while fetching Brent or Trent or Kaitlyn or Skyefrom Country Day School.

    BIIIIG and STOOPID Truck Tahrs and “lifts” are mandatory, if only to ease the passage to the Outlet Mall and make it possible to reach Soccer Practice through 12 foot snowdrifts or Inland Tsunamis.

    The SUV thing just got out of hand. And when Ford found out that, in one year one UNIT in four was an Explorer, but one DOLLAR in THREE was earned from Explorer sales, the die was cast.

    Now, they need to feel the Bad Side of Free Enterprise, to wit, the Freedom to Lose Your Ass If You Guess Wrong.

  • EJ

    This was a stupid post…to blame SUV buyers on the US auto industry’s problem is just dumb. I bought a Toyota 4Runner 2 years ago and based that decision on recommendations from consumer reports and other guides that rated the car very highly.

    I love the car and am very happy with the decision. I use it to drive back and forth to work, and haul stuff all the time with it.

    We can afford the fuel and should we get to the point where we can’t afford the fuel, we’ll purchase some other car.

    THAT’S HOW THE MARKET WORKS! END OF STORY!

    • samb

      I AGREE COMPLETELY , IT’S POOR FUTURE FORECASTING AND MIS- MANAGEMENT, PEOPLE STILL HAVE CHOICE, EVEN IF EVERYONE DOSE NOT AGREE WITH IT.

      • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

        ok, call me crazy, but that is the point of my post.

        • samb

          I AGREED WITH NOT BLAMING THE SUV OWNER, I THINK YOUR POST IS FINE AND CREATES GOOD DEBATE ON THE ISSUE

          • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            ok, thank you. :O)

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      what the hell are you talking about? where am i blaming the consumer for the decline of the auto industry? i am blaming the US auto industry.

      this was a stupid comment.

      if the consumers are so friggin happy with the US automakers, and SUvs are flying off the lots, and no one is concerned about high gas prices, and life is perfect then why the hell do they need a bailout?

      what is happening that dealers are struggling that they need a bailout?

      you can still afford the gas, but aren’t there many people who can’t? isn’t that why Hillay and Mccain were talking gas tax breaks over the summer? isn’t there a long waiting list to get a prius? (last I heard there was?)

      U.S. car makers lose ground in a hurry to foreign competition

      http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2007/10/us_automakers_lose_ground_in_a.html

      I’m not saying to take away people’s SUVs. I am asking why the automakers are failing. And from what I have seen, they are failing in large part because people are no longer banging down the doors to buy gas guzzling suvs.

      “The slump has many causes, industry experts say.

      • Cars from Ford, Chrysler and GM weren’t as good as their competitors’.

      • New rivals like Kia entered the market.

      • Import-friendly areas added population, and sales grew faster than in domestic strongholds.

      • The market for sport utility vehicles collapsed, hammering a profitable market the U.S. companies had counted on.”

      Explorer sales fell from almost 434,000 units in 2002 to fewer than 240,000 in 2005. Last year, Ford sold fewer than 180,000.

      In Ohio, Ford sales fell 43 percent in 10 years, and GM sales fell 32 percent. Meanwhile, Honda sales jumped 45 percent, Toyota climbed 30 percent and Hyundai/Kia sales increased seven-fold.

      Even in Michigan, Ford and GM posted large, double-digit sales declines during the decade while Toyota and Honda grew quickly. So even in markets where the Big Three are still dominant, they don’t rule sales as they once did.

      “We can afford the fuel and should we get to the point where we can’t afford the fuel, we’ll purchase some other car.

      THAT’S HOW THE MARKET WORKS! END OF STORY!”

      Obviously, some people, based on the declining sales numbers, are all ready AT that point, but there isn’t the US market to support what they want. So, they are buying smaller cars from foreign companies.

      • Mr. Natural

        isn’t there a long waiting list to get a prius? (last I heard there was?)

        You’re wrong again. Toyota would hardly have postponed its new Mississippi Prius assembly line if they were rolling in orders.

        The core problem is the credit crisis.

        GM was two years into a three year plan to transition into a hybrid fleet. There were over fifty separate programs in place. They were staggered by the sales drop due to fuel prices, but the credit freeze is what is killing them.

        If you want to insult America’s manufacturers, at least get some facts straight.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    here is an interesting older story, about SUVs.

    http://www.bellas-wachowski.com/lawyer-attorney-1283886.html

    • Baba Rum Raisin

      Absolutely!

      Ever drive a BroncoII? Now, THERE’S a vehicle which is waiting to find an opportunity to kill you. Liked mine, drove it 200K+ miles, but never trusted it in the hands of daughter or wife.

  • tek

    Great post, Italy. Love the flick. You’re right, U. S. auto makers don’t make what people want, or at least, not in the long term. And for all the people out there who think govenment should totally stay out of the economy and let the market work, we are seeing the result of the FREE market as it works in the U. S. It’s all lopsided in favor of corporations. They unify and then form monopolies, no free, fair competition. Then when they fail the consumers and the laborers they’ve replaced with illegal hispanics are supposed to bail them out. There’s a middle ground between free market capitalism and socialism–regulated capitalism. That’s the only thing that work. You can’t just let greed do its’ worst and then throw money at it.

  • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

    Very provocative piece, Sara! Kudos!

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

      thanks tek and uppity! :O)

  • harper

    darn i lost my post…

    anyways… automakers should make the trip to bankrupcty and reorganize.

    Why are automakers different from other industries?

    look at how airlines come and go: Panam, Brannif, TWA etc, all were considered “too big” to be allowed to fail yet they went under and it wasn’t the end of the economy. Others took their place and strong well managed airlines like Southwest Airlines have been turning a profit for decades. DL, NW, UAL, CO, all at some point in their history have had to do the trip (or multiple trips) to bankruptcy to be able to reorganize and clean the house.

  • rls

    I bought a new Lincoln Town Car in 1998 (end of year) because it was the only rear wheel drive luxury car made in the US. I have had it serviced when called for and have had absolutely no trouble (excepting regular service, tires, etc.) and it now has 225,000 miles and is still in excellent condition. I expect to keep it until it dies and then I will buy another.
    That is, if Ford is still making them.

    I think part of the Big 3′s problem is that the contingent liability of benefits to retirees was built on the 50′s and 60′s churn model. That is, cars in that era didn’t last much past 100,000 miles, thus more new cars were needed and fewer quality used cars were on the market. As technology improved the life of the auto, combined with improved foreign imports taking market share, the legacy benefits per produced unit increased.

    It now costs Detroit $1500 per unit produced to fund the legacy costs of non workers; as more and more retire this cost will continue to increase. According to some experts the market value of these three companies combined is just north of $7 billion. This from powerline:

    As of the close of business on Friday the market cap for General Motors was about $1.9 billion, Ford about 4.3 billion….Chrysler is privately held but it’s a safe bet that their FMV is less than $2 billion…probably a LOT less….so for approximately a lousy $7 billion….a rounding error for the federal budget…the government could simply BUY the entire U.S. auto “industry” — actually, of course, it’s just the U.S. nameplate manufacturers, but that’s another story — for what amounts to a pittance.

    The numbers are literally absurd….Ford has $160 billion in debt!….with NEGATIVE book value of equity….GM has about $60 billion in debt…and a HUGE negative net worth on a book basis of $56 billion!….Essentially, the market is valuing the companies — well above their (negative) book values — but at what amounts to scrap value!…so $50 billion more from forced tax exactions should be thrown at them?….and that’s NOT absurd?

    Unfortunately for those legacy retirees, the promise made by these three are only as good as their profitability….and they have no profitability. For those that like comparisons, this dilemma is a microcosm of what our Social Security will look like in about 20 years.

  • Mr. Natural

    Here’s a question for all you creative destruction worshippers.

    Why is every other major industrial nation backstopping their auto manufacturers? Look it up. Germany. South Korea. Japan.

    • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

      don’t you think it was in the best interest of the car manufacturers to plan ahead for the rising costs of oil and global warming issues? do you think a bailout, which according to many experts will not help, is spending our tax dollars effectively? don’t you think it is valuable to have a discussion, without resulting in name calling?

      do you think if a company has mismanaged their finances or set themselves up for financial disaster through retirement packages, they should be bailed out by taxpayers?

  • bish

    Next time Coca Cola screws up their recipe, they will ask for a bailout. Or Levi’s, because people refuse to buy pink or orange colored jeans.