London Bomb–What a Crock of Crap!!

“You know what you call a vehicle with 50 gallons of gas? A Cadillac Escalade. The media meltdown over this incident is simply shameful.” -priceless

I would add “driven by a southern california contractor to account for the nails.

I was just watching CNN and a reporter had been interviewing Britons and their response was, “what’s the big deal? You can’t ban all cars and handbags, so carry-on.” No hyperventilation on the Brits part.

The gas has WMD in it. When burned in the engine, the WMD is released. He was supposed to drive around the city.

The new PM was just sworn in. He was a minister of finanace and all those are, of course, evil. The London bombings came when Blair was taxing his people for a foreign group. The Live8/G8 GDP tax was doubled by Blair the next day. Rumor had that it was someone in the government who used the terrorists that MI5/6 was watching. Minister of finance.

Well, call me cynical. This looks to me like just one more well-timed “just-in-time” bogus event designed to keep the public afraid – whew! Saved again by the brave po-lees from apocalyptic conflagration at the hands of the Islami menace. My first reaction was that this looks rather staged. Sorry to say, it still doesn’t quite ring true.

So far every single one of those “just-in-time” breakups of nefarious doomsday plans has turned out to be a bad joke. This one is possibly in the worst taste yet.

susanunpc, good catch about the problem with crown vics here in this country. (i have a post for you re problem with email at the jfk warrior for peace post. also, have a long post, with many resources listed, there explaining the milieu where commenter john rowland is coming from. once upon a time there were good conservatives. back in the day.)

at the 911 confer. in august of 2005 in chicago i heard a former mi5/6 whistleblower speak. good looking woman. fairly young. said they create the problems (eg. libya) to do what they want to pursue their corp. agenda. our gvt. wouldn’t let her boyfriend/finance/husband into the country to speak at the confer. she also told a tale straight out of a novel where they blew the whistle and escaped to france, and were on the run, and eventually the french authorities acting on behest of the brits arrested them.

also, there was a british/irish guy, who was the big cheese about uncovering what he saw as the lies around 7/7. key take away point: the bombs in the backbacks that the 4 swarthy m.e. lads left behind that caused the explosion……..well, according to eye witness testiomony of those on the subway who fled……the floor was buckled from the bottom up. in other words, the bombs were *under* the subway cars. and were planted there. the science of the explosion does not support the cover story. it’s kind of like saying the crooks burgularized your house and got in thru the broken window and stole a bunch of stuff and your putting in this insurance claim. but the cops look at the evidence and the broken glass is on the *outside* in the flower bed and not on the floor inside.

a big part of how i came to be radicalized is that as i investigate all this stuff, the science doesn’t support the cover story. just one eg. sirhan sirhan and rfk. never got more than a few feet in front of bobby. shot that killed bobby fired 2″ behind his right ear. this is based on the gunpowder on kennedy’s ear. is this from the tin foil hat brigade? well, only if you consider thomas naguchi, the la county coroner to be a charter member. david talbot mentions this in brothers, the hidden history of the kennedy years. page 373.

(what’s not clear to me is thata talbot says naguchi mentions this in his memoir published in 1983. was this mentioned publically before this? and if not, why not? incident happens in 1968. regardless of that, talbot says this startling fact “received surprisingly scant attention” in the m$m.)

FRE, great point about the timing of the controversial g8 meeting ……and whoops, i have to go comfort my people and deal with this terrorist attack. and notice how the tax aspect just got totally shoved to the side.

a major, major key issue ahead for the brits will be whether they join the eu. there is fierce pressure on the part of the european & global elites for them to do so.

lastly, i would say that it seems at best suspicious, and at worst, actually deliberately planned that every time the administration gets into pol. trouble and things are looking fugly…….oh, mirable dictu here comes another turrorist attack to save their a*s. former vietnam infantry grunt, pa. gov and what was his job??? homeland security director??…….has said that the bush admin. played games for pol. purposes with the color codes and altering the alert status. (these people have forfeited all rights by their gross criminal conduct and need to be removed posthaste.)

Larry, reminds me of the joke about the terrorist who tried to mail postcard bombs to save on postage. He had a very short career.

PS That whole liquid explosives plot was as bogus as can be, but that DID give them an opportunity to remind us that we are in extreme danger every time we travel by adding one more useless layer to the inconvenience of it.

From a European perspective, there is only ONE good thing about the UK. It’s up North and far West. Europeans can go all over the continent without having to go near the place.

Larry, you utterly rock.

We love you dude.

Let us know if you’re open to speaking in Canada.

Spread Love…
… but wear the Glove!

BlueBerry Pick’n
can be found @
ThisCanadian.com
==
“We, two, form a multitude” ~ Ovid
==
“Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced”

Centrocitta,
“From a European perspective, there is only ONE good thing about the UK. It’s up North and far West. Europeans can go all over the continent without having to go near the place.”

Your racism is a fairly ugly thing and I can only assume that it’s connected with the same facism that Britain and America helped to destroy sixty years ago.

Larry your the man! Thanks

I heard on ABC radio this morning as I was getting ready for work, that the government has advised Americans to “be vigilant” – whatever that means.

I did not, however, hear that the government said to “be vigilant, and keep shopping”.

jamesD – you sad mofo.

….Your racism is a fairly ugly thing and I can only assume that it’s connected with the same facism that Britain and America helped to destroy sixty years ago….

If London keeps up the scare tactics, it won’t have any visitors at all — and it has NOTHING to do with racism.

Explosive vehicles, Paris Freed, Rosie and the View, Hillary/Barack, global warming, all distractions. While the mainstream media creates illusions, der fuhrer steps on our throats by opening our mail, arresting reporters for asking about 9/11 (Lepacek) and convicting reporters for exposing 9/11 (Chris Bollyn), suspending habeas corpus, stealing private lands, banning books like “America Deceived” from Amazon, rigging elections, conducting warrantless wiretaps and starting wars for a foriegn gov’t. Soon, the sinking of an Aircraft Carrier(by Mossad) will occur and the US will ‘retaliate’ against Iran. Which AIPAC-lobbying country benefit’s from that?
Final link (until the Stark County Library bends to pressure and drops the title):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

leslie, re your london has cameras everywhere…….don’t have details on hand, but on the 7/7 incident the authorities reported that most of tv cameras — which are ubiquitous –didn’t work at the absolutely critical locations. many locations. so the video confirming tony bLIAR’s tale was m.i.a. missing in action. who benefits? and the us gvt has tons of video about the pentagon plane crash and won’t release it. at some point along the way i got tired of playing charlie brown to their lucy and pull away the football routine. their actions prove they are scum, traitorous scum, evil toad scum. i don’t believe a thing they say. and is the goal to implement big brother? i’m so glad we’re spreading freedom in the m.e. and trashing the sh*t out of it here at home. and, if they hate us for our freedoms why aren’t they bombing geneva and stockholm. another stupid for the ’08 election. it’s our foreign policy, stupid!

also, re your comments about aren’t we lucky……i agree totally about the defund the first responders, etc part…..what i would like to see in the national discourse is how treasonous it is to leave our border wide open after 911. if it’s an existential threat then act accordingly. i mean what’s up with that? and my point is this is something that joe sixpack who watches faux tv would get. i want to destroy these peckerheads.

shirin, re the liquid stupidity. agree totally. additionally, scientists looked into it w/i days and this was reported on the internet, and said it was pure unadulterated bullsh*t. the official story did not square up with how this would actually work. and there were flat out lies in the authorities accounts. and since liquids combining are dangerous i’m sure it makes perfect sense (/snark/not) that we dump them into a trash bin to mix together as we go thru the “security” checkpoints at the airports.

jd allow me to suggest that you research how the americans financed the fascism that they went and fought. prescott bush was in bed with the nazis, along with many, many prominent americans. and p. bush — and many others of his ilk — continued for 10 1/2 months AFTER pearl harbor! more tinfoil hat stuff? this is per us gvt documents. think you can google p. bush and vesting order 242. treason runs in the family. think also that john loftus/lofton has written about this. this he was a former us gvt investigator. also in new hampshire gazette iirc.

this ran in some papers the weekend that george w. was in the phillipines on the ap wires. think it was c. 18 oct. 2004. bush was there for an aesen (whatever that is; the asian countries and the us assctn.) mtg. i remember the secret service wouldn’t let him stay overnight in manila. we invade in 1898 and our guy can’t r.o.n. (remain overnight) 106 years later. ain’t nation building great??? the nyt and wapo didn’t run it. and a story of this magnitude — president’s grandfather was hitler’s bff (internet for best friend forever) — was a “one day wonder.” go figure.

also, read antony sutton’s short books about wall st. and the russian rev. in ww1 and wall st. and the nazis. neat little racket. make money coming and going, on both sides of the war. they lie, people die, they get rich, civil liberties, those inalienable rights, get cut down more and more.

also, i didn’t see how centro’s remark was racist. maybe i’m missing something.

Wethornet,
I’m not advocating video cameras and Big Brother on every street corner, just stating facts: London has a lot of cameras.
—

The BBC’s reporting that they have an image of the guy responsible for the first car from one of those cameras.

They’ve also found a second car rigged the same way. The car had originally been parked underground near Trafalgar Square, and had been towed to a street near Buckingham Palace, when workers smelled gasoline and became suspicious.

No doubt the US media is playing this up for all its worth. Nevertheless it sounds as if the threat was real, and luckily caught in time. Unless there are more cars out there set to go off.

I saw Peter Power being interviewed on the TV news this evening (BBC or ITV I forget which). He who was also (still is?) MD of Visor Consultants (based at the scene in Piccadilly by coincidence) and who was in charge of the identical simulation exercise of the 7/7 bombings on that morning.

Can someone comment on his actual official involvement/role this time in today’s events (I missed most of the news item)….. and if it is of any significance (ie is it another pointer to the events being managed/staged in any way?)

Oh brother, Susan. Bush is probably hoping that the potential London car bombs will divert attention away from the White House being subpoenaed. The likelihood that Congress will take Bush & Cheney to court.

Speaking of which, John Dean has an article up today at findlaw.com talking about Cheney’s arrogant abuse of the law and his ridiculous claims to not being part of the Bush administration.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20070629.html

Now some FBI dude on MSNBC is saying it’s a really serious type of explosive, and very sophisticated…. “just the concussion from the blast can cause deafness, collapsed lungs, …”

(I wish I were listening to John Dean on MSNBC instead.)

Yup, v-e-r-y convenient timing. Amazing how that works.

Don’t know whether to believe the car bomb reports or how much to believe….

Larry,
gasoline aerosolized can be very, very explosive, as well as propane if it is “packed” correctly with the right combination of…er…accelerants.
Of course each requires a detonation device…but I think I’ll wait till the full report is out before I start guffawing.
If it was just cans of gas with duct tape and nails…well, yes, then I’ll laugh along with you.

The second car they “found” had even been given a parking ticket. Isn’t that cute?

Not a word about Cheney on the news today. Mission accomplished.

Take that part about not succeeding at anything back: The Bushies have managed to do a lot of damage.

It came at a time when Congress is in recess, so limited oversight in response can occur.

Let’s see what kind of procedural end run Cheney tries to enact in court regarding unrelated items…

As for the action, it appears to be a motivate indivdual at this time. Someone with working access to the items planned to be put in use.

You could settle an old grude and blame it on something else that way. It would depend on where the target ordiance, measly as it was, were to be expectedly placed.

Whoever it was, he was dumb enough to stage a car in a towing zone. It’s an amateur. Not a traditional jihadist because it was clearly not a suicider.

Homekeeping problem.

gasoline aerosolized can be very, very explosive, as well as propane if it is “packed” correctly with the right combination of…er…accelerants.
Of course each requires a detonation device…but I think I’ll wait till the full report is out before I start guffawing.
If it was just cans of gas with duct tape and nails…well, yes, then I’ll laugh along with you.

Posted by: sheerakahn | Friday, 29 June 2007 at 17:06

–What a HOOT!!!

Ya know, it’s a good thing they didn’t stop me when we were moving from one state to another, with a couple of pickup trucks… Lots of duct tape, tarps, propane tanks, gas grills, regular ‘ hillbilly move’ ala USN coast to coast… hell we would have had to use the electric hammer and the nails to fight off anyone who might try to steal our sheeeeeet……

Cabinet Meeting ??? WTF???? Friday dump, not surprised Brits helping out the cabal once again???? I wondered what it would be early on, before I heard about even the first bomb…

excited that Fitz eveidence is coming out. sure hope it helps Val and Joe’s case…

BTW, Impeach that cunt cheney. He is one evil dude. DO IT! Don´t wait, there´s literally no time left before they pull the BIG one. And you KNOW what I´m talkin about. So fucking sad, the state of things in this world.

Now Bernard Kerik, the noted terrorism expert and criminal, is on MSNBC.

F–king unbelievable.

(In contrast, CNN’s coverage, last time I checked about a half hour ago, was demure.)

Thanks for this article. If more people saw terrorism in this light then the terrorists could never win. My problem with a bogus war on terrorism is that I’ve known since Jr. High Social Studies class that the powers that be have always used terrorism as an excuse to take away our liberties for a phony security. It’s not a war on terrorism folks, IT’S A COUP! The way to keep the terrorists from winning, along with anyone who uses terrorism to scare people into agreement, is simply to not be terrorized, and get on with life as always. Unfortunately America has fallen for the bull, and our 9/11 Richstag fire was only the beginning. I’m living in a country of fools.

“Not a traditional jihadist because it was clearly not a suicider.”

Mr. Murder, are you saying that all “traditional jihadists” are suiciders? If so, I beg to differ. In fact, only a very small percentage are. All “jihadists” are NOT suiciders, and all suiciders are “jihadists”.

I DO agree with you that there is no possible way that whoever did this was a “jihadist”, traditional or otherwise, nor did it come from any international terrorist group. (Based on the sheer ineptitude of it, it looks like whoever did it was taking lessons from the Bushista neocon crowd, actually – and no, I am not saying…although…)

At the going rate for gasoline in greater London (more than US$10/gal, last time I was there), you have to grudgingly admire the industry of anyone who can manage to acumulate 50 gallons of the stuff, whether by hook or crook.

Stealing the Mercedes was probably easier than getting 50 gallons of petrol…

As someone who works in Central London all I can say is, wow. No wonder America is screwed. If this is your level of civil discourse you’re stuffed. Big time

This is a genuine car bomb in London and you’re blaming it on Bush? Step back people. A second car bomb has been found; we’ve been hearing all sorts of stories all day, but hey, you’re all going to just blame Bush

“Gas” – talk about two countries divided by a common language. There are many apocryphal stories about Americans asking for the “Gas Station”. Over here, that’s the power plant, etc.

Whilst it’s a very serious matter I had to suppress a laugh at a “Terrorism Expert” who confuses petrol with Propane.

Oh, and nice touch about “courageous” – the bloke who was there displayed more courage that you’d do in a million years

“Gas” in the UK (that’s London, England BTW) means Propane, Butane, etc.
The first car contained numerous propane cylinders. Plus nails, etc. That’s not propaganda; it’s been all over the BBC today

And why are we Brits somewhat magnanimous about this? Well, we’ve had to deal with over 25 years of American funded IRA terrorism, so we’re fairly used to this sort of thing, i.e. we don’t run screaming to Mummy and bomb Belgrade / Khartoum / Baghdad, etc. when this sort of thing happens

Given the fact, that blair told the world diplomatic options were being used, while he already agreed with the other war criminal bush, to invade Iraq, according to the Downing Street Minutes and given the fact, 2 British intelligence officers were caught in Basra by Iraqi police with bomb making ingredients, and busted out of jail by British tanks, last year, shows THEY HAVE NO CREDIBILITY.
Plus the coincidence of Brown taking the reigns of power, it suggests this is one of those keep them sCARED, REAL sCARED operations.

Warnings of terrorist attack are not scaring the Brits. I had a premonition there would be a staged attack to support the increasing intrusion by authorities. I expect Sydney is going to experience similar events leading upto the Apex Summit in Sept

Delia

Obviously we have to ban cars.

….Bullshit of the highest order. 9/11, 11/3, 7/7 = false flag murder. Wake up people. It would be laughable if it wasn´t so fucking tragic….

Colin, even MORE bullshit. On 6-6-06, they got Zarqawi!

it looks like you might be on to something,
the Israeli intelligence website ‘Debka’ is now running a story about the London bombing attempts and basically saying the same thing. Usually Debka are the first in line when in comes to fear-mongering about terror but this time they’re baffled by how amateurish the attempt was and how the British are spinning it.
the article is in Hebrew and basically says this: the cars had 60 liters of benzine next to 2 propane tanks, one of the cars had a handful of nails on the floor. there was no trigger device to be found anywhere and the only way to have the bombs explode is to light a fire inside the car so that the benzine combusts and causes the tanks to explode.
total amateur hour compared to modern terror methods that usually involve a cellphone trigger and real explosives.

And the only way butane/propane will explode in a manner worthy of the name is if there is a HOT fire which will QUICKLY heat the gas up to the point where the pressure builds quickly inside the canisters. Otherwise it will reach a point where the pressure will overcome the canister’s power to contain it, and basically just leak out. So the only way those gas canisters were going to explode was if there was a large hot fire inside the cars – and even then, with the size of those cans, they wouldn’t have done much more than blow out the windows.

This plot sounds incredibly weak, as if it was more concerned with the criminal charges than the explosive charges. I have a feeling that if this isn’t accepted as a holy auger, the new British PM’s plane may do some skidding (or maybe his motorcade will all slide at once.) BTW, great reading.

The first thing I thought, when I heard about the London bombings, is what I always think when I here about the London bombings…it must be the Irish! And I am Irish.

Hear (sic)

Hear (sic)

“Um, ok!!! Put your racism away, it’s ugly!”

No – Leave him alone.

Of course all the English are exactly like the drunken couple he met once on an Italian train – Why wouldn’t they be?

Presumably this goes for all Italian-Americans. Just like him – Right?

Wait ’till he gets around to the Jews…

“Oh, and least I forget the Brit … Europeans, particularly those of the Latin persuasion, are lovers — not fighters. Don’t visit our countries just to get drunk and cause trouble.”

Leaving aside the jokes about Italian valour, haven’t you ever heard of Mussolini? The Roman Empire? The Mafia?

You’re seriously arguing that Italians have always been missionaries of peace, love, and total honesty wherever they’ve been, eh?

Me, I’ll ask any Abyssinian… Or any American, come to that.

“England is nothing but the last ward of the European madhouse, and quite possibly it will prove to be the ward for particularly violent cases.”

Leon Trotsky (The Russian guy – All Russians are Trotsky)

The NYT is now trying to “connect the dots” between the London bombs and al-Qaida.

This is just ridiculous. AQ operatives know how to make a bomb and drive it to its destination.

Whargoul: unless the cars were packed with BIG gas cylinders (which they weren’t – see the picture halfway down this page: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/290607carbombings.htm) they wouldn’t have done much more than blow out the car’s windows. And that’s only if the cars were blazing infernos – which they weren’t. Come on! The device in the first car was so lethal that a copper on the scene defused it!!! http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1272910,00.html Couldn’t have been very sophisticated, now, could it?! How did he even know what to do? Must have been VERY simple…

Of course, it’s not in the slightest bit coincidental that the new PM was just introducing new “anti-terror” legislation yesterday, now was it?!?!

What bomb, you idiot? A jeep burst into flames! Once again, these Al Qaeda sorts are a bit incompetent when it comes to blowing things up, aren’t they? Apart from in Iraq, that is…!!!

gee Larry

on olbermann you said the cars could have had a blast range of maybe 30 feet, that’s probably before you were informed that “patio gas” means propane in England, now you are saying that propane tanks don’t explode unless they are engulfed in fire…so the actual gas (petrol) in the cars if lit on fire could have gotten the tanks hot enough to explode right/

Discovery Channel is going to do a simulation of these car bombs like they did for the Murray Building, you are invited to stand 31 feet away.

The “patio gas” bomb defused in Haymarket would have generated a fireball the size of a house and a shock wave spreading out over a diameter of at least 400 yards, explosives experts said today. The propane cylinders and petrol used in the device would have triggered a huge conflagration, as well as causing shrapnel and blast injuries from the exploding car chassis and the nails packed around the bomb, according to Hans Michels, Professor of Safety Engineering at Imperial College, London.

As a cop in South Bronx saw many cars torched on fire . They do not explode and flames might leap up about twenty feet but not house size no way .

Really if this was Al-Qaeda job, there wouldn’t be a burning wreck. Just fragments.

Note how some media spin it, calling it an explosion. When the vehicle just burnt and crashed. Even Paris Hilton’s story had more substance then this.

This incident in Glasgow and London could be false-flag op.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they found Iran’s fingerprints on it. Forcing a retaliation of sorts.

> Those are real high explosives with a detonation rate in excess of 20,000 feet per second. Gasoline can explode (just ask former owners of a Ford Pinto) but it is first and foremost an incendiary.

Yes, I’m sure Semtex is available in every London Apothecary’s shop. On the other hand Propane DOES have a fair amount of explosive energy in a fuel-air mixture (rather like that produced by a gasoline explosion)

> If the initial reports are true, the clown driving the Mercedes was a rank amateur when it comes to constructing an Improvised Explosive Device aka IED.

… and therefore this proves…? Oh, I see — because they STOPPED this plot it doesn’t matter. Of course, if they DIDN’T stop them, it would only have been evidence of the “just retaliation” of Muslims Everywhere.

Heads, they win. Tails, they win. Interesting rules you play by.

> Unlike a Hollywood flick the 50 gallons of gas would not have shredded the Mercedes into lethal chunks of flying shrapenal

Hence the NAILS. Duh.

So, instead of killing hundreds, he would have killed dozens. I’m sure you would happily explain his incompetence to the surviving victims and the families of those killed… Right?

Funny how the lives of every soldier and citizen of Iraq killed by a bomber matter so much every time it happens gets plastered all over the front pages, but a narrowly avoided instance that would’ve killed dozens, and injured hundreds? THAT you should ignored.

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!

Idiot.

To me this story is impossible to believe, i read in the newspaper yesterday that the “bomb disposal expert” disabled the detonator by hand with 2 minutes before the imminent explosion, well if the detonator was a mobile phone it would be detonated by a phone call to the phone triggering the detonator, there would be no timer. also there was eye-witness reports of a black man exiting the vehicle, so how did manage to convince authorites that this was an iraqi attack? also it would be obvious to see a burning fireball “what is needed to explode the gas cylinders” and have enough time to evacuate. if it was a real car bomb the people would use a immediete explosion. also its pretty amazing how the police found all the car bombs in time. and i dont think there will be any CCTV footage released of these “car bombs” too. as with July 7 2006, was there any CCTV footage released about the explosions?, there was none, even though London has cameras covering every corner, every shop, even some houses now. same with the Pentagon 2001, no CCTV footage, a bit of a link there, or just a technical error? people believe anything these days, when the real terrorists are the people controlling the countries we live in, its just demonisation of arabic people and trying to acquire more power. it should be stopped.

Check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK8dPLfHAzI

That’s just one small tank. I don’t know how many where in the car but I’d imagine it could’ve caused serious injury if not the death of some unlucky people / firefighters.

The reason the London police so casually disarmed the detonators on the petrol and propane `bombs` at no risk to themselves was because they all knew that it was a security agency stunt. The security agency itself knows that the police know this, hence they dare not rig something up that will immolate a policeman in a ball of flame.
Hence no need for a video camera equipped bomb disposal robot gingerly inching its way forward.
Second point about this stunt is that i have not read of a car bomb in the last four years in Iraq also being surrounded with nails to enhance the kill rate. The high velocity shards from the disintegrating car metal is plenty lethality in itself; and the current situation of nails surrounding the petrol and propane containers is ludicrous because the car itself would first have to be disintegrated before the nails could clear the car !
Third point is that the petrol and propane need to be converted into combustion gases in a millisecond for there to be a car disintegrating detonation. This cannot happen unless the petrol and propane already have oxygen incorporated into their chemical structure to be available at the instant of detonation.
Petrol and propane do not have O2, only C and H in different configurations which is why it is legal for you and i to buy these items any time we want.
However, were these items to have in their chemical structure the sufficient quantity of O2 to achieve on detonation instanteous transformation into hot combustion gases then only security agencies and the military would be able to obtain them.
In other words, petrol and propane are merely highly inflammable, and yes i know there are such things as fuel-air-bombs made for military applications but are well outside the realm of practicality here.

Please, help me! I’m a Frenchman trying to learn english.. Is it what you call a prank, or is it a falseflag operation? Sounds funny bunny anyway.

Posted by: 100% |

100%; yes; a badly executed false-flag operation is what it was. Add to the London joke, the pathetic Glasgow “car-bomb”. What the hell?! Two guys crash a burning car into an airport – um, why??? What exactly was that supposed to achieve? Don’t tell me, it was going to set the airport on fire! LMAO! Um, no, I don’t think so. Terrorists? Are ANY terrorists in the history of the world so CRAP that they think crashing a car into the front of an airport is going to do anything but get them burnt and arrested?

This was all a stunt, designed for effect; and oh look! Because of the pre-programmed reaction of the Great British Sheeple, it achieved exactly what was intended. It’s getting to the stage where pretty soon they won’t even need the stunts to get the reaction they want; they’ll just come on the telly and say “boo!” and the sheeple will jump and say “protect me, protect me!” Christ, talk about Pavlov’s dogs!

Pounce; why? Why is the idea to spread fear and not death? Especially when our government then fills us with the line “they hate us because of our freedoms”? If the idea was just to spread fear, then why actually even TRY to pull off attacks? Why not just letters to the media promising attacks which then never actually happen?

Silly little children?! Silly little children believe anything and everything they are told without examining all the angles (ALL the angles, including the notion of Cui Bono) critically and open-mindedly. It is not silly and childish to say “now hold on here, let’s examine this in a bit more depth!” It IS silly and childish to say “Oh my God, they attacked us, quick, protect us, do whatever you need to make us safe!!!”

And since when, exactly, was terrorism more about fear than death? Terrorism = terror. Death, fear, destruction. Any or all of the above. Terrorism is a tactic usually employed by those with recourse to no other, and with a definite purpose in mind. What, pray tell, is the ultimate aim of THIS particular terror? To encourage the US and UK to bomb even MORE Muslim countries in the name of so-called democracy? Oh no! It has no aim, does it? They’re just mindless animals who kill for no reason! Strange then, that they didn’t… :-/

Part 2

Lazzz wrote;
What, pray tell, is the ultimate aim of THIS particular terror?

In Spain just before an election in March 2004 the murder of 191 people resulted in Spain pulling her troops out of Iraq.
In the UK this week we have a new Prime minister (Blair is gone)
In Scotland this week the Queen opened the new parliament.
I think you may find that both terrorist incidents were aimed at coercing the new people in power to do as the terrorists wish.
And before anybody points out Iraq and Afghanistan. Let me point out that that 9/11, the bombing of the American embassies in Africa, the Bombing of the Cole, The destruction of the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, The bombs on the French underground, and the terrorist training of thousands of western based Muslims in camps based in Afghanistan all transpired before 2001.

Strategy of tension:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension

Of course, this strategy is not confined only to Italy, as Wikipedia would have us believe. But it gives you an idea of the tactics used, and why.

And if, as you say, the purpose of these attacks was the coerce the new PM to do as the terrorists wish, they achieved that so easily it begs the question, why haven’t ALL terrorists who wanted to influence a government carried out similar attacks? We are told by our government “we won’t allow them to affect our way of life”, and when some rather pathetic car “bombs” which don’t even explode, which cause zero casualties, manage to do the exact opposite of this, well…! Why didn’t Fathers For Justice try similar tactics?!?!

Of course, it’s purely coincidental of course that Gordon Brown was just introducing new “anti-terror” legislation, wasn’t it?! Because of course a nice little attack of some kind wouldn’t have provided a very handy little emphasis to the unthinking sheeple, now would it?! One in London, one in Glasgow, to give the impression that it’s a big, well-co-ordinated attack, which definitely needs new legislation! Please!

Pounce, I don’t wish to get into a discussion about Islam. That has nothing to do with the issue at hand. And by “brainwashed” I mean, quite simply, conditioned by the media into believing that all terrorism today is carried out by Muslims who “hate the West for its freedoms.” Your insistence right now that an examination of Islam be the central point shows how brainwashed you are. I don’t care what your religion is, and I don’t particularly care about your background. The very fact that you exhibit the same traits as the vast majority of British and American sheeple, in accepting without question that Muslims are to blame, shows the depth of your brainwashing. And the fact that you seemingly hate Islam has nothing to do with that, I suppose…!!!

But leaving Islam to one side, I urge you to discuss evidence rather than emotion. Let’s pick, for instance, 9/11, and pull apart the supposed evidence that 19 Arab hijackers were to blame, and examine the way the REAL evidence has been ignored. Including, of course, the way the official accounts ignore some basic scientific laws – namely the Law of Conservation Of Energy, and Conservation of Momentum.

Then let’s examine the facts, that’s all I’m saying. For instance, on 9/11, 2 of the basic laws of physics were ignored. The Law of Conservation of Momentum and the Law of Conservation of Energy were both ignored by the official report. Look at the way the top of the South Tower started to fall. The Law of Conservation of Momentum suggests that it should continue to fall in the same direction until it came up against something which would retard it’s momentum. In this case the only thing present that could do that was the ground. Effectively, what should have happened, is, the top 30 – 40 stories of the South Tower should have fallen off and hit the ground. But they didn’t. They were pulverised into dust before they even got below the level of the undamaged remaining portion of the South Tower. How is that possible unless there were explosives present? And how is it possible that the official report could ignore that fact? How about the molten steel present in the basement of the WTC? How is it possible to produce molten steel from aviation fuel? Answer; it isn’t. Aviation fuel burns under ideal conditions (ie, inside an engine) at around 1700oF – and steel begins to melt at around 3000oF. So, what produced the molten steel? Could it have been those same explosives that were used to pulverise hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete into dust a few microns in size? Of course, defenders of the official conspiracy theory don’t like to discuss THOSE “childish” facts – because they don’t have any answers. What about the eye-witness testimony of explosions BEFORE the North Tower was hit by a plane? The seismic evidence that backs up those testimonies? The testimony of first-responders (including firemen and policmen) who testified to explosions going off before the buildings collapsed? Let’s discuss those facts, and leave religion out of it altogether.

In response to Pounce – since you are an expert in explosives surely you would be someone that would be more convinced of the conspiracy of 9/11, seeing as that was the case of the twin towers and WTC 7. did you know that these buildings were the FIRST EVER steel framed buildings to collapse due to fire? a skyscraper in spain was an inferno for 24 hours and did not collapse http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_9-11.html ,

you may say that this was because an aircraft did not impact this tower, well the impacts at WTC would not have been able to destroy the hugely strong core as a plane is made of a less dense metal, the plane would rip to shreds even at a high speed http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/9-11%20Picture6.jpg

you ask how did they mangage to construct the demolition equipment without being caught, well there was a 48 hour “power down” the weekend before september 11 with eye-witness reports of “suspisious looking men”, the first in many decades, a coincidence? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TOJtLKDBC8

you then ask how these blast were not caught to the attention of viewers eyes, you have obviously not researched the evidence and i ask you to do so in more detail
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pd8B-8Au-Wk

i have watched much better detailed videos of all this evidence but this is just a very quick search to show you the evidence, how can you explain what you are saying after watching this?

But the most convincing evidence of 9/11 was WTC 7, you should research that too. it is a perfect controlled demolition, “pulled” as you might say.this building was not impacted by an aircraft yet collapsed (at freefall speed as with the twin towers) in just seconds falling into its footprints. http://youtube.com/watch?v=5qWFVzBdM5s
notice how this building collapses first in a middle column of the building, textbook demolition to control the destruction radius. if you think this is false, it was confirmed by the owner of the building that the building was “pulled”, but this demolition as you said in your statement “would take days”, so it was prepared in advance.

if you have any further questions, they can be answered.

What is the point of arguing with people who after 6 years still think that the US government murdered 3000 odd people in which to attack Afghanistan by blowing up the WTC.
(Point to note. The much heralded WTC 7, was struck by debris from the collapsing towers, in that respect it was successfully evacuated. Pictures and information can be found on line which not only show very significant damage to the building ,(how about 10 floors worth of corner building missing) but also that the building had been on fire for hours after getting hit by debris from the WTC. WTC7 collapsed at 17.20 pm on the 11/09/01 seeing as how this was around 7 hours after the other two had collapsed can somebody explain how the X-fools out there don’t mention this fact. That at 1400hrs a huge bulge was noticed in the side of the building and that all fire –fighters were pulled from the building and the immediate area. The building didn’t just collapse , it took hours to do so. Trying to play the conspiracy when the facts are there just shows how petty your argument is.)

To you people who presume to think that this is all an attempt in which to control the world. (You really should read Robert Ludlum’s ‘The Matarese Circle’) you kind of omit one salient fact. Islamic terrorists are real. They have an agenda which in a nutshell means oppression for all non-Muslims. If you cannot accept that simple fact then I suggest you move to a country which supports your ideals. Iran, Pakistan, Cuba, Syria etc… When you are there as an experiment try burning the local flag. Something tells me you won’t move in the first place.

Good piece, the Left are so nuts it is hard to fathom. ‘IslamISTphobia’ – Don’t fear it, embrace it!

These peaceful terrorist monkeys must be stopped from coming in to Britain. And all that do come in should be fingerprinted, photographed from 5 angles, and retina scanned…

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
Britain must pay forever

immigrants are entitled
to take over the country
.

Dark Knight writes;
“Its time people like you opened your mind”

You mean like how terrorists blew up London in July 2005
Or like how they did Spain in 2004
Or the suicide bombings which murdered 43 people in Morocco in 2003
The there was the hostage situation in a Moscow Theatre in 2002
How about the suicide attack on India in Oct 2001 which murdered 40 people.

None of the above have anything to do with the US government but they do have a common link. I wonder if you can spot it.

The holy book of Islam tells its followers to go out and conquer the world. It tells its followers to kill people like me for simply leaving the faith. I have travelled the world
(When I say travelled I really mean I have lived there and not gone on 2 week breaks)
I spent 3 years in Northern Ireland during the troubles in Uniform. I was in the Falklands in 1982, I was in Bosnia in 1995,so when you demand ‘I open my eyes from what premise do you mean?’ From that of a spotty little tosser who still masturbates over pictures in a clothes catalogue. Somebody who has never left home and somebody who believes in the X-files.

Some people do have their eyes open and just because they don’t subscribe to the X-fools theory that you do, it doesn’t mean they walk around with their eyes shut. Before you start to throw the vitriol “Mr Engineer man have you heard of thermite”
It kind of helps if you actually know what you are talking about rather than quoting ‘Wiki’ Now go back to your female underwear catalogue and work at the only thing you are good at. Leave the real world to people who live there.

Pounce, your entire message was irrevelent to 9/11 and what the US government did there. sure that was real terrorists in those other incidents but that was just a small number of people killed compared to around 3000 of america’s own people. now american soldiers along with british soldiers are killing innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan due to this huge lie of 9/11. even yesterday they killed almost 200 civilians in one day. you think thats a good thing? islam does not teach its followers to kill people, no religion allows that. i do disagree with the July 7 london bombings though. what evidence was shown about this incident? a few images of a group of asian men with backpacks? oh yes they must have been the bombers then. tell me, was there and CCTV footage of these people actually blowing themselves up? no. also there was stories of the CCTV cameras malfunctioning, bit of a coincidence.

by the way, i did not get any information from Wikipedia or that crap, its from my knowledge and i did not post any evidence from that website. and anyway at least i actually show evidence with my comments, you dont do that.

tell me why you dont believe the conspiracy theories, is it because you dont want to hear the truth? ask the people of Iraq if they think there country has been helped by the US. ask the oil suppliers of america if they have been helped by the US, ask the islamic people of this world if they have been helped by the US.

you say you are from an islamic family, yet you are supporting the people that are demonizing islamic people. why would you do that to your family? do you have loyalties? the war againgst the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan are very unjust and you should know it instead of believing some crap on the news about a person that did something bad, oh he must be an Iraqi.

i can see that you have lived in many countries but i suggest you try to live in an islamic country, and you will learn that actual muslim people are extremely nice and friendly people. its the west that generates hate into a few of the followers of islam. there is reasons for everything. what you see on your little television is proberly only 5% true. in reality it is far from that.

………………………………………………………
Dark Knight wrote;
“You say you are from an islamic family, yet you are supporting the people that are demonizing islamic people. Why would you do that to your family? do you have loyalties?”

And there is the way of the Muslim who while living in the west, professes no loyalty to the country that gave his family sanctuary. You accuse me of lying about my background, You accuse me of treacherous behaviour to my family and you accuse me of selling out to the west by betraying Islam.

1) What part of me being an apostate didn’t you understand? The fact remains according to the Holy Koran (Written by Mohhamed himself so they say) I have to die. So tell me Dark Knight, what loyalty should I have to a bunch of people who on a daily basis despatch people to the sounds of “Allah Ackba” on the basis of them being ‘Apostates’.
2) Supporting people who are demonizing Islamic people. The last I looked I am free to walk the streets of England/America free from religious persecution. Can you say the same for Jews in any Muslim land. No. Can you say the same for Christians in Pakistan, no, Can you say the same for Christian school girls in Thailand. No. If you should look around the west the only people demonizing Muslims are Muslims themselves. If anything the people in the west go out of their way in which to defend the rights of Muslims in their countries. (which may explain why so many Muslims immigrate to the west)
3) As for loyalties, My loyalty lies to the country of my Birth. The United Kingdom. Oh its not the most perfect country in the world. But it’s a damn sight better than any Muslim country. My wife can walk down the street on her own, she can work, she doesn’t have to walk behind me, she doesn’t have to worry about covering her face, hair or body so as not to warrant the attention of the religious police. In the Uk I can say what I want, when I want and if I want I can burn the Union Jack. Now tell me do you have those freedoms of expression in any Islamic country. No. So spare me your crocodile tears about loyalty to Islam, family and the faithful. They extend no loyalty to me, all they extend is oppression and in a lot of cases death.

Pounce wrote;
“Can you please explain how almost 6 years after 9/11 nobody has decided to come clean and sell his or her story to the media. I mean the biggest story in the world and nobody wishes to cash in on it.”

its simple if you think about it, it was performed by the american government. therefore it is a secret service. if anybody from the inside wanted to even try to “cash in” on the worlds biggest secret they would be killed before they could even pick up their pen.

Pounce wrote;
Lets see, their DNA evidence, the house used in Leeds in which to concoct those explosive devices., The fact that the families have buried their murderous scum.
(Are you saying that these good Islamic families are part of the American/British conspiracy in which to point the finger of blame at Islam?)

im saying that there is no visual evidence that proves that what said happened. the government could have planted the bomb there under a seat, took photographs of a group of random asian men, forged a few dna tests and then killed off the men after, you see that could have happened, we are just made to believe a certain story. and no i dont watch too many movies like you do. there is not a lot that you could conspire about with the july 7 bombings though as the whole thing was not as huge and visable as 9/11. so therefore you can see more of the truth with 9/11. also you can get somebody to get them to do something horrible by doing something like threaten their familys lives, that would make somebody do anything to stop.

Pounce wrote;
Oh please spare me your crocodile tears, you link into U-tube and conspiracy are us and equate that as facts.

i link to the evidence that shows you the truth. it does not matter what the hell named website it is, it shows the visual truth, what actually happened and not what you may have seen elsewhere where they hide the facts. these videos show you that my facts that i tell are right, whereas all you can do is critise.

Pounce wrote;
The People of Iraq have spoken they have asked the Americans to stay until they get their feet on the ground. The funny thing the people who are killing Muslim people in Iraq by the bucket load are killing Muslims and not Americans. Why is that?

who the hell said that? some politician that sucks american ass? their country is destoryed, they have no medical facilities, they have fear every second of their lives, they have a huge ass wall area, they live in a damn prision now where every day they fear of dying. there main prisions get leveled to the ground if the US wants some of their murderers released. thats not help, thats hell.

Pounce wrote;
So that old snippet, tell me if America just wanted the Oil why didn’t they just buy it. It would have been a lot cheaper than removing Saddam.

it does not seem to be about money, its about control. if america has control of the supply they can do what the hell they like with it, it saves money too.

Pounce wrote;
More Muslims are able to follow their faith (correctly) in the western world (I include America in that) than Muslims in Islamic countries. (Hell the leader of Turkey ‘Erdoğan’ sent his daughters to University in the States as they can wear the hijab there, something that they cannot do in Turkey)

hijab bans are increasinly more common in the western world. the hijab ban in Turkey is only in schools and some workplaces. the women of Turkey are still able to wear a hijab anywhere other than that. also the US war in Iraq in conjunction with the kurdish rebels is fueling the war on terrorism in Turkey with the PKK Kurdish rebels causing carnage with bombs with around 40,000 deaths in almost 25 years. is that help to Turkey? the war on terrorism in that region is sparking mass retaliation along the Iraq border. the US should not be helping terrorists.

Pounce wrote;
So spare me this sanctimonious cods wallop that America doesn’t help Muslim states. It does and to a higher financial cost than any other Islamic country.

im not sure where you get your information from. but in fact the islamic countries helped the US the most when hurricane Katrina devasted New Orleans where Bushy just sat back and did nothing.

Pounce wrote;
And there is the way of the Muslim who while living in the west, professes no loyalty to the country that gave his family sanctuary. You accuse me of lying about my background, You accuse me of treacherous behaviour to my family and you accuse me of selling out to the west by betraying Islam.

did i say you was lying? no, i do believe you. you can care about whatever country you like, im just saying that this could impact your family, yet you just stand aside. may i ask which country holds your background? by the way its “Allah Akbar” = god is greatest, just to correct your comments. whats wrong with them saying that? everybody has a right to worship a god.

Pounce wrote;
Can you say the same for Christians in Pakistan, no, Can you say the same for Christian school girls in Thailand. No.

they are in a country with a great majority of strict worshipers, so its different to here where a extremly small number of christians are actually strict therefore allowing the country to be multi-cultural.

you always slip further away from the point i wanted to talk with you about (the US governments acts in 9/11) all i want to do is show you is the evidence so you can choose to believe it or not. but at the end of the day we are all being lied to.

Dark Knight wrote;
“Centrocitta is right, how can you be loyal to your wife when you admit you are not even loyal to your own family, only to a country”

Again you play the character assassination game so favoured by Muslims living in the western world. Let me spell it out to you in clear and concise terms my relationship with my Muslim family..

I don’t have anything to do with them as I am an Apostate from Islam.
That for the ill-informed out there means they are obliged by the holy Koran to kill me. Instead of addressing the subject at hand you instead divert the subject by trying to say I am not loyal. Tell me would you be faithful to people whose loyalty to a book written 1500 years tell them to kill family who leave the teachings of the Koran behind.
As for my loyalty to my wife. In this country I can only have one wife. (Which believe me is a full time job) I am therefore loyal to my wife . Tell me how many wives can one have in a Muslim country. Can one be loyal to every one of them? Bollocks.

Dark Knight wrote;
“im not sure where you get your information from. but in fact the Islamic countries helped the US the most when hurricane Katrina devasted New Orleans where Bushy just sat back and did nothing. “
If I remember correctly the question of yours I answered was this one
““Ask the islamic people of this world if they have been helped by the US.”

What has that got to do with New Orleans? Or is it avoidance of the answer by deflection

Pounce wrote;
The school girls in Indonesia I mentioned were beheaded as an act of Muslim charity for Ramadan.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20726085-2703,00.html

a murder rampage by a gang? thats not the islamic culture. you get murders everywhere by any race of people.

Pounce wrote;
Dark Knight you seem to have an inbuilt hatred of the west.
Tell me why don’t you just pack your bags and bugger off to a nice Islamic country.
Also seen as you hate the US so much why don’t you stop using the internet?
I mean the nasty Americans did invent it.

i never said i hated the west did i. i am just standing up for the innocent people. the people that have been wrongly accusesed. by the way around a thousand years ago and more the middle east had all the research whereas after that the other countries stole their ideas from there. so we have a lot to thank the middle east dont you think?

why dont you go back to the hole you came from instead, that would be better for this damn website

Dark Knight wrote;
“by the way around a thousand years ago and more the middle east had all the research whereas after that the other countries stole their ideas from there. so we have a lot to thank the middle east dont you think?”

And what has that got to do with the price of fish and the main thread of this story? If you look back you won’t find me castigating the Middle-East instead I castigate an ideology which promotes oppression, hatred and war as a means of becoming the only dog.(never mind top dog) I have lived in the Middle-East and people there are just as nice as the people I met in the States. However the people in the States don’t subscribe to a code of honour which enforces them to slit my throat for leaving Islam.
That is the central theme to my posts that instead of looking at shadows and ghosts over who may and may have not bombed Glasgow, London and America which the liberals and Muslim world are doing. Lets call a dog a dog and actually admit to just which bunch of village idiots are behind the murders (And in this case) attempted murders of innocent people in the west because they wrongly believe their god has told them to do so.

Pounce, you write: “I have lived in the Middle-East and people there are just as nice as the people I met in the States. However the people in the States don’t subscribe to a code of honour which enforces them to slit my throat for leaving Islam.”

—indeed that must be a very fearful way for you to exist, so I am not surprised that you would rail against those idiots who believe that their ‘way’ is the only or right/correct way… I see the same thing with people like those who would bomb clinics, or lie to start a war against those even that do the tings you describe… but I have not lived that horror, I am thankful. and I am thankful you are safe.

I just read posts here from last couple days… lots to absorb and think about. wing nuts are flustered right now, so we can expect so good laughs…. I will comment more later, as too much for now. glad to see some of the new posters , many are giving me LOTS of homework to catch up on….
Check Out link on Ambassador Wilson’s PBS clip

Pounce,
As PrchrLady says, glad you feel safe and free in the UK, and welcome in the US.

You have a very different perspective, and it’s interesting. Hope you will continue to comment on other threads too.

Regarding 9/11 and the WTC conspiracy theories: I don’t understand it either!

Wasn’t it bad enough that two jets crashed into the buildings and the ensuing fires consumed them, bringing them down. I live in NYC and saw it happen. I can assure you that thousands of people worked in the WTC and the surrounding buildings, shopped there, rode the subway through there…and someone would’ve noticed if the US government planted bombs. Certainly Mayor Giuliani and the medical team, police and fire department personnel would’ve noticed, because the city had its emergency control center down there. NYC was damned lucky the twin towers fell the way they did, instead of falling over. If they’d fallen over the damage and the number of dead would’ve been huge.

Why do people need to make up these stories, when the truth is bad enough?

With all due respect DarkKnight,
I’ve heard these conspiracy theories many times…on C-Span even.

For your theory to be true, the city of New York would’ve had to be on it. There’s no way New Yorkers would blow up fellow New Yorkers, and no one would say anything about it.

The only conspiracy on 9/11 was watching Bush read my pet goat, then listening to Condi explain how the August PDB titled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US” was just a historical document. That’s the conspiracy. The Bushies had many warnings of an imminent attack and they ignored them.

And the rest of that post of mine;

I’m not saying Islamic people are anymore evil than non-Islamic people. But you’ll have to admit common sense goes out of the window when any offence is perceived towards the faith, the Koran, Mohammed or to their honour.
The way you tried to character assassinate me by saying how can I be loyal to my wife when I am not loyal to my (well left behind) Islamic family merely highlights how Islamic people can find the slightest form of offence in the most innocence of incidents.
I live in a democratic country, which judges me on my merits rather than on religious or family loyalties.
That is the type of society I wish to live in. If I wanted to live in the later I would be subscribing t the values that you hold holy. I’m terribly sorry but as a member of the Church of England I am taught that all men and women are born equal.

DarkKnight,
Yes, remember Bush saying that. He misstateinated.

Seriously though, the conspiracy is ignoring the warnings, then lying about it, trying to cover it up, no one being held accountable and the Bushies using 9/11 ever since as their Reichstag Fire.

many islamic friends
*from stricter islamic countries too

i suggest you try the “find the boeing game” in the pentagons two only still framed video clips it released. our check how almost every supposed suicide bomber has been found alive with their identities stolen

Well you guys, since we’re posting head counts, in the last four years the US, UK and the Coalition of the Willing have reportedly killed about 600,000 Iraqis so far and caused about 2 million more to flee to neighboring countries…

There was the coup in Haiti we orchestrated. Did anyone do a body count? Bush isn’t doing much about Darfur or Israel/Palestine, other than empower Hamas and Hezbollah in Lebanon. And the Bushies are keen to start a war with Iran, then may be Syria.

So all in all, it’s been a great century so far for the gung ho war crimes crowd.

what is this Pounce? some kind of competition as to see who can find the highest death toll from a nation. well in fact the Khmer Rouge – up to three million people slaughtered, the holocaust from the nazis – up to 11 million deaths. the present Iraq war – already around 700000 civilian deaths according to recent reports. Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear bombs, that was a war crime wasnt it? the unjust war of Vietnam. sadly ever country has a bloody history. the world has always had wars. what can we do about that?

yes we will see what happens with Turkey and Iraq. proberly bush will find some magic Weapons of Mass Destruction in some other countryand invade there as with Iraq, which was the primary reason for them to invade

Dark Knight wrote;
“Well in fact the Khmer Rouge – up to three million people slaughtered”

I think you will find the figure closer to the 1.5 million mark.
Strange that for somebody who professes to know all about how the American government instigated 9/11 and such. Knows nothing about the American/British/Chinese involvement with Pol Pot. Yes my friend if the allies were ever complicit in helping a demigod commit genocide. The sad tale of Cambodia must be it. (Why do you think the UN has held off hearing court cases for so long?) But hey as I keep on saying none so blind as those who do not wish to see. (Strange how Pol Pot lived in France thou)
…………………………….
Dark Knight wrote;
The holocaust from the nazis – up to 11 million deaths.

No sir, I think you will find the holocaust was 6 million. Please don’t inflate the death toll for your own political agenda. The funny thing about the holocaust is that Hitler found succour in how the Turks committed genocide against the Armenians
““Who remembers the Armenians?” he said.
………………
Dark Knight writes;
“The present Iraq war – already around 700000 civilian deaths according to recent reports.”

Oh please, what is it with you and revising the death count to a much higher figure.
Here have a look at the most reliable estimate.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Means you can take 2 noughts off your extrapolated figure.
……………………….
Dark knight writes;
“Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear bombs, that was a war crime wasnt it?”

Really ,look up Operation Downfall and see how the bombing of those two cities was actually the lesser of two evils. The invasion of Japan the military concluded needed the use of several such weapons. In the end only 2 got dropped. The strange thing is while everybody talks about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nobody ever talks about Namking. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right. But for some strange reason nobody from the left of the spectrum ever mentions how 300000 civilians were murdered in peacetime (1937) by the Japanese imperial army. Yet they always play the victim card for an act which killed a lot less (granted in 2 swift strikes) for the same nation which picked a fight with a nation that fought back.

Dark knight writes;
“The unjust war of Vietnam”

For whom?

Pounce wrote:
Nobody ever seems to mention the fact that Turkey as well as two other semi-secular states in the region (Egypt and Syria) has the army running the show.

you should really stop just going to google to find all your information and start learning the facts before-hand. in reality it is not the case, i have been to Turkey a huge number of times, is there tanks rolling down the streets or anything like that? not at all. the only army movement is on the Iraq border where they are retaliating for the 30,000 deaths caused by TERRORISM, the same as US and UK are doing.

Pounce wrote:
Dark Knight wrote;
“Well in fact the Khmer Rouge – up to three million people slaughtered”

I think you will find the figure closer to the 1.5 million mark.

yet again your google skills show you lack the knowledge. in fact there was a Vietnamese household survey which concluded that 3.3 million people were killed or more. the other numerous surveys missed out most of the deaths due to the mass-graves, starvation deaths etc.

Pounce wrote:
No sir, I think you will find the holocaust was 6 million.

yet again you should read i said UP TO. which is true. there is no actual number of casulties, but it quite possibly was closer to the 11 million mark as most records suggest. did you actually go round and count the bodies?

Pounce wrote:
“The present Iraq war – already around 700000 civilian deaths according to recent reports.”

Oh please, what is it with you and revising the death count to a much higher figure.
Here have a look at the most reliable estimate.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Means you can take 2 noughts off your extrapolated figure.

haha are you kidding me? thats the worst google find i ever seen. and the biggest load of bullshit too. the US has been saying that figure for years. they are not going to say the actual figure to spark more protests are they? they are killing hundreds of civilians every day
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/afgh-j03.shtml

and just one example of the real story
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/118852.html
and look on the Iraq interviews section on the right
this confirms my point. that last fall there was a study BY BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNALISTS into the actual number of Iraqi civilian deaths, where in last fall they calculated that number as 655,000
and i mentioned that it could be much closer to the 700,000 mark now as that was almost a year ago.
case closed on that story too.

Pounce wrote:
Yet again you dodge the issue presented in reply to one of your statements

how can you have the ordaccity to comment me with this as you have dodged almost half of my statements. and of course you dodged my main subject that i wanted to talk about in the first place 9/11. you dodge it as if you cannot have a comeback for the conspiracy theory and then you ramble on about muslim life etc which was not the subject in question. if you fear islamic people so much i suggest you see a doctor.
a final tought for you:
if the american government say they have found a ten legged dog, would you believe it? even though the actual visual evidence confirms that it is just a normal dog. as i said before, civilians are always denied the actual truth, so why shouldnt civilians investigate the truth for themselves? and when the civilians find the real truth, why shouldnt we believe that?

Dark knight you wrote this ref the figures you posted for death count
in Iraq.
“and look on the Iraq interviews section on the rightthis confirms my point. that last fall there was a study BY BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNALISTS into the actual number of Iraqi civilian deaths, where in last fall they calculated that number as 655,000and i mentioned that it could be much closer to the 700,000 mark now as that was almost a year ago.case closed on that story too.”

Case closed, how convenient that you feel able to close an issue in which you get nearly everything wrong.
1) The study was conducted by the John Hopkins School of Public Health and not British medical journalists which I should add is Amereican.
2) The study came to its findings by extrapolation they published this report;
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

Here please allow me to pick out a few snippets of information from the above report.
(Page 4) they visited 1849 homes for the survey. 47 out of 50 clusters were visited with approx 40 homes to a cluster.

(page 3) has a chart which breaks down all the deaths for that survey. The total figure they come to after visiting those 1849 households is 547. of which 300 were violent. Which means 247 were not violent. Lets look further.
102 people died of heart attack.
33 people died of cancer,
28 died of chronic illness,
23 die because of accidents,
19 of old age
And the rest
Should these people be listed in the equation of deaths caused by the invasion of Iraq. I’ll admit maybe some, but not all. But here is the killer the total number of deaths recorded by that survey is 547.
By extrapolation they explode that figure to 601,027.
Sorry but extrapolation isn’t hard evidence. I’ll admit the death toll in Iraq is high. (Even 1 death is too many for me) But pulling figures out of the sky doesn’t constitute as hard evidence. Unlike you I actually read that report and the one that followed it.
As I said that report found evidence which supported the deaths of 547 people.
You can shout foul play all you want. At least I read that report when it came out.
Something it appears you and your x-files collective haven’t.

Pounce wrote:
What part of the army running the show didn’t you understand? If you are going to concoct a lie in which to hide the truth then what does that say about the cornerstone of your argument on this thread.

you accuse me of lying? why? go to Turkey yourself to see if you wish. would it be one of the major tourist destinations if there was tanks rolling through the streets?

Pounce wrote:
Last I looked we were talking about Cambodia not Vietnam. Or are you now suggesting that when Vietnam invaded in 1978 that they ran a house to house survey because if you legitimise that survey why do you discredit the America one done in Iraq as you wrote as cut and pasted below. Because the last I looked they invaded to replace the ruler of a country who was oppressing his own.

why would i be talking about Vietnam? yes i was mentioning the Vietnamese household survey in Cambodia. the difference in this evidence is simple, america invades and conducts a survey based on the only the media covered deaths, that would be like the Khmer Rouge conducting a survey for themselves. the Vietnamese survey also is not an extremely lower figure as with the americans and its believeable.

and you quote bbc and some other websites, was it the bbc that conducted a household survey? no.

the extremely high death rate in Iraq is not just based on the US killings of civilians. its also based on the fact that the US dismantled the Iraqi government and introduced governtments of different religions causing create upset and tension between the religions causing them to fight each other in a small civil war created by the US governments stupidity.

as i have said before, if somebody puts a gun to your familys heads and tells you to do something, you would do it without question, this may have been the case for the suspects? dirty tactics get dirty work done

……………………..
Dark knight wrote;
“ok so why would many doctors who have studied for a very long time, suddenly make 4 failed car bombs? you would think they are knowledgable enough to make one that would cause casulties wouldnt you?”

Maybe it has something to do with the loyalty towards families and faith which you berated me on rather than loyalty to a country?
……………………………….

Dark knight wrote;
“And the devices found inside the car show no link to Iraq car bombs as you have been told by UK news. Iraqi car bombs use immidiate detonating explosives not the type seen now. what was found this week? some small gas canisters and some gasoline and a few nails. the gasoline needs a very high temperature for the pressure inside to cause the casing of the canister to split, but the most damage would be the noise of this, the most damage would only be blown out windows and damage to the interior of the car, it would not create much shrapnel too.”

This time of year is the start of the holiday season in the UK. Don’t you think that fear is the main direction here. Attack London, (Tourists) Attack transport hubs (tourists) since Saturday we have had in the Uk terrorist alerts at Blackpool airport, Liverpool airport, Standstead airport. One at Heathrow airport and one at Hammersmith tube station In every case the Airport was closed down causing mass disruption isn’t fear a better weapon than death? But then isn’t that what I wrote in my very first post.
………………………………..
Dark knight wrote;
“Also there was a car bomb in an underground car park, hardll the best choice to kill a lot of people is it. why would they choose that location instead of a busy street? “
Are you for real. Pick up a paper and do somebody reading. That car was found parked illegally it was transported to Park lane car park after getting a ticket. Yes the traffic cops picked it up. Funny enough the car was placed in an area where the emergency services would have parked if the first bomb had detonated. Makes you wonder?
…………………………..
Dark knight wrote;
“the detonator used was a celluar phone, but it has no timer for the detonation, yet a “bomb disposal expert” disabled the device by hand, when there is no timer. why didnt the crew use a remote robot to disable the device? they was not told it was a dub before-hand, or was they?”
Bomb disposal expert? It was a bobby who was called to the scene of a car with smoke coming out of it by an ambulance crew who were called to the Tiger,tiger night club on another call. The first policeman on the scene opened the door and removed the (I presume) very visible dog and bone. (phone)
…………………….
Dark knight wrote;
“its just a silly plan to blow this whole demonisation out of proportion. its obviosly not Al Qaeda as reporters mentioned as Al Qaeda would not use that sort of device as seen in the past. also the eye-witness of the London failed car bomb reported a black man exiting the vehicle and leaving the engine running, how did this evidence change to become an islamic judgement?”
What you leave out of your post is that the police investigation which transpired after the events in London on Friday directly lead to the doctors in Glasgow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6260464.stm
It also lead to the arrests of people in Cheshire and Blackburn
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6265500.stm
That was evidence based on CCTV and not eyewitness testimony.

You may wish to continue.
……………………

Pounce wrote:
Maybe it has something to do with the loyalty towards families and faith which you berated me on rather than loyalty to a country?

so you are saying 7 doctors (a coincende of so many) waited for 6 years after the retaliation of the beflief of islamic action in 9/11 to suddenly at the same time do a pathetic car fire? thats too silly too believe dont you think. they would be clever enough to think of someting better than that. why would they get themselfs arrested so easily, they knew they would be due to the fact that they had no immediete explosive devices. this has no link to Iraq so on the basis of that, the story seems very strange.

Pounce wrote:
That car was found parked illegally it was transported to Park lane car park after getting a ticket. Yes the traffic cops picked it up. Funny enough the car was placed in an area where the emergency services would have parked if the first bomb had detonated. Makes you wonder?

i did not read much about this part of the story as i do actually have a life instead of your sad escuse for one sitting at home all day watching brainwashing UK news channels suchas BBCnews24. but after reading this comment that you have shown, tell me, for when the car was being ticketed, being transported onto the transporter truck, parked into the car pound, nobody once saw the smoke, gas canisters, nails or gasoline? as was found much sooner with the first car. also the reports escalate the fear saying that this “bomb” would creat a huge explosion of hundreds of feet killing hundreds of people when reality that is far from true, if you have watched a small gas canister explode, you would know too, its a very small explosion but just creates a lot of noise.

after the truth being discovered with 9/11, it should be harder for people to believe what the governments says, yet you still watch the crap on the news on your television. before you believe something on first sight, its best to study the evidence as with 9/11

sooner or later we will all be told the truth, but by that time it would be too late. so the time to act to find the truth is now. for the sake of all goodness of humanity in this world that is slowly dieing. the world needs these conspiracy theories to act to stop the evil powers that are attempting to dominate the entire earth. seemingly there is much greater risks to the world than terrorism so why dont they try to stop these instead such as global warming(i suspect you dont believe that too?), diseases, extintion of species and so on. so maybe its best to assume the outrageous to find out the truth and to stop the evil.

Pounce wrote:
I see that you inability to reply to my posts

your foolishness astounds me. i did not reply to your posts? you quote 3 lines whereas i replied with 41 lines of words which replied to your comments.
it is you that dodges most of my comments. and lastly i did not ask for your life story, there is other websites where you can post that.

Amen to that Peg Kirby, im sure you are right, i especially agree about the story coming at a great time to knock the main story about Cheney off of the news in the US. when this is just an extremely small event exploded out of proportion by media