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Open Thread * If the GOP Wishes to Heal Itself, It Could Start By Showing SOME People the Door

Show the door to people like these:

As you all know, we are led by a very wise man, Larry Johnson. Larry, being the Federalist he is, is troubled by that Prop 8 passed in California.

And, just today, in an e-mail to our little private writers’ list, Larry wrote (and I trust he doesn’t mind if I quote him):

I just wish folks would mind their own business. If homosexuals want to marry, they should be allowed. The notion of putting Government in charge of telling people who they should love and who they should sleep with always strikes me like a nightmare of sharia law unleashed here.

“… a nightmare of sharia law unleashed here

Take that, Human Events, and stuff it up your righteous asses.

How DARE you preach about the dangers of Muslims taking over Europe and the utter necessity of breaking down people’s bedroom doors, when you’re unwilling to give health care to the tens of millions of hard-working people and their children in this country?

What f–king kind of morality is that, Human Events?

Leave people be but, my god, we have a totally broken health care system in this country. Even me! I’m on disability, which is a pittance. Subsistence. But right off the top, every month, I pay $350 to various supplemental policies and for drugs not covered by my insurance — even though I qualify for special help with prescriptions.

Thank god I did sign up for all of those supplemental policies because, when I did, I had no clue that I would have to have both of my hips replaced — with two weeks of hospitalization that involved intensive rehabilitation — followed by home health care visits from nurses, occupational and physical therapists.

And i had no clue that I’d have a ruptured appendix for FOUR months before it was finally diagnosed (I never had a fever and my white blood cell count was normal, and all I kept saying to my doctor was that I didn’t feel good and my arms ached like I had the flu), which meant many hours of surgery to clean out the huge mess inside me — peritonitis and a six-inch infected mass and leakage from ugh-guess-where (that surgeon was utterly exhausted when he finally got me cleaned out). Then I spent a full week in the hospital, and then a Wound-Vac for six weeks with nearly daily home health nurse visits to change the dressings that they stuffed into my huge open wound. My poor doctor is consumed with guilt. But I told him I have one of those healthy farm-family genetically-strong bodies, and I do not give off the normal symptoms that most people do. My stomach area only hurt the last week before my surgery even though, the surgeon is certain, the appendix had clearly ruptured at least four months before. My primary care doc — who’s the sweetest man — now knows to check my Sed Rate on my blood tests. It’s the only signal my body gives off, but it’s a weak signal. So …

If I had not signed up for those supplementals, I’d have had to shell out $1,000 just to get in the front door of a hospital each time. And would have had no home health care or coverage for the WoundVac or any of that. It would have cost tens of thousands of dollars that, obviously, I don’t have nor does anyone have to give to me.

Then, since i’m me I (but me sounds better there), I feel guilty as hell for costing those supplemental health insurance plans so much money this past year.

Enough of that.

But John McCain’s health care plan was idiotic. I like a lot of things about John McCain, but that sure wasn’t one of them.

Republicans, get the hell out of homosexuals’ lives and concentrate on doing GOOD WORKS for American citizens who desperately need your help.

By the way, Barack Obama needs to stop thinking he can have it both ways as well. He said he was against Prop. 8 while also stating he believes marriage is only between a man and a woman, so while I’m telling the Republicans to get off it, the Democrats in the “New World Order” don’t get to get away with being hypocrites, either.

P.S. All this notwithstanding, I am rooting for Barack Obama to do well because our country needs him to succeed. It would be TWISTED to wish for him to fail. It’s tempting, of course, but we must listen to our better angels as we all teeter on a precipice.

– OPEN THREAD NOW –

  • Tyrione

    Seeing as I am one who is a balance of Anti-Federalist Patrick Henry supporter where States Rights first and Small, lean decentralized Federal Government second with that of a pseudo-federalism–I recognize the need for central government in small doses, I am having a hard time swallowing the value of heavy Hamiltonian Federalist rule of Law, when it’s clear that it never works, promotes Monarchical rule of law and ultimately only spurs radical forms of Anti-Federalism in equal measure.

    Balance. It’s one word with very few in government grasping it’s Universal Scientific Law.

  • Strawberrybitch

    It’s this kind of crap that keeps me from ever considering taking the leap to becoming a republican. What you do in your own bedroom is none of my business.

  • Andy

    I am sorry, I never heard of “Human Events” before this post… You link to their website, but could you just put up a link to what article/comment are you referring below? (I don’t wish to sort through their site…).
    Thanks…

    How DARE you preach about the dangers of Muslims taking over Europe and the utter necessity of breaking down people’s bedroom doors, when you’re unwilling to give health care to the tens of millions of hard-working people and their children in this country?

    What f–king kind of morality is that, Human Events?

  • karen for clinton for PRESIDENT not SOS

    BREAKING

    Guardian UK reports Clinton will accept SOS! oh no!

    add http to link below

    ://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/17/hillary-clinton-secretary-of-state

  • sowsear

    Am I confused? I thought it was Obama and Dems who pushed the yes vote on Prop. 8. Obama says marriage is between a man and a woman. How liberal is that?

  • Sarracuda

    BIG MISTAKE HILLARY..BIG MISTAKE..Well Hillary, there goes my last remaining respect for you. You are officially now the scapegoat for the Obama Administration. I guess she figures she can’t become President, mind as well have some kind of limelight. Geez Hillary, I voted for you, you had such spunk, Obama trashed you from the beginning and look at you now, now he is your boss, good golly Hillary what happened to you

  • freedomfries

    If this site got rid of the haters that post often on here, it could actually hold “Obamas feet to the fire” on these issues. Universal healthcare, education reform, gay rights.

    For as long as it goes on about the birth certificate and other invented rubbish it will never be taken seriously.

    The Religious Right is a Republican disease. That cancer could see them out of power for years.

  • outlawales

    ugh, ugh if it really happens, obama is hillary’s boss, yuck

  • freedomfries

    She can be President in 2016. She would still be considerably younger than McCain is now. She also has far more intelligence than the Republican 2008 ticket (and 2000 one) combined.

  • Andy

    But has it been officially offered to her??? Last I read there is a lot of trash out there being thrown by Dems. in BO camp at Bill Clinton and his foundation: they insist he should release all and allow a full background check ( can you believe this ??) or it could cost HRC a cabinet post…

    Call me cynical but given we have now officially replace “Washington Politics” for “Chicago Politics”
    I think they are trying to gather dirt on Bill so that they can control HRC.

  • wodiej

    I’m sorry to hear about your medical issues but I have a problem with everyone in this country just getting free medical care when 40% of them don’t pay income taxes. Who is going to pay for their care? Those of us work that’s who. I have no problem at all helping the disabled, mentally or physically as well as the elderly. I do however have an issue w providing free health care to lazy people who simply don’t want to work as well as all of the illegal aliens who broke the law and crossed our borders.

    I do know that many people have health plans but there are many things they will not cover which is bullshit. Is it health coverage or not??

    As for proposition 8, I could care less. I have no intention nor understand entering into a legal binding committment w someone who then has say so in almost every area of my life including finances, kids, my home etc. No thanks.

  • Sarracuda

    Wouldn’t Hillary be 69 years old in 2016? She would have the same issue that helped bring down McCain “He is too old” she will only be 4 years younger then John McCain. It’s obvious that she is taking this job because she doesn’t believe she has another shot at the White House. This year was her one shot and the Democratic party made she sure would lose

  • xax

    We do need a succesful presidency, but with all his spending (despite already being trillions of dollars in debt) I don’t think that will happen.

  • James

    That was one of the best scenes ever on the West Wing.

  • freedomfries

    Back on topic – never mind the first Woman or African American President – how about the first non Christian.

    There would be very little chance for America to elect an Atheist, yet that is what it needs to restore the Constitution. The State legislates in so many areas of moral life that it has become an extension of the Church. So much for the separation of Church and State.

    In some ways it would have been better if Obama was a Muslim.

  • wodiej

    I agree, I have lost what little respect I had left for her. You realize by getting Hillary, Obama then gets her racist husband Bill? Gee, I thought Obama didn’t need help!

  • Andy

    Forgot link:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/clinton.cabinet/index.html

    Carville seems to have joined “Team BO” … Wonder if Bill talks to him any more…

  • Michael Anderson

    My solution to the problem is simple: Get government completely out of the marriage business. The government should treat each and every individual as an individual regardless of marital status. No preferences; no penalties.

    Problem solved.

  • barry bums a ciggie

    Okay, here’s the thing. I heard on the news that before election day, internal polling showed that Prop 8 was supposed to be defeated by 70-30 margin. This isn’t about Republicans trying to ban gay marriage, it’s about a bunch of hypocrites who consider themselves “liberal” minded and in the privacy of the voting both, they said HELL NO to the gay and lesbian community. I used to live in the bay area, and while the folks there live in their own world, outside of LA and SF, most of them are NOT cool with seeing gays walking down the street kissing or showing some PDA. I have friends who say they are for equality but are incredibly uncomfortable at the talks of homosexuality. The fact that the ban was upheld in CALIFORNIA(!) by 52-48 margin, tells me that people aren’t ready for that kind of hope and change. It’s bs, but the people spoke and no court is going to overturn the people’s will. Barry wouldn’t even take a photo with Gavin Newsome, what does that tell you? The GLBT got bamboozled by the Dems and their Messiah.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Give it a rest on the GOP bashing. There are of course wing nuts on both sides. Let’s think about the wing nuts who brought us OVomit. I am with wodiej – I don’t mind helping those who need it. But it’s getting out of control when lazy people say they are glad they elected OVomit “because they won’t have to work, pay their mortgages or pay for gas.” And those are more of the population than you know. This country is sooo all about the handout and it’s why we’re in this position in the first place. How about Freddie and Fannie? Let’s GIVE houses away to people who can’t pay for them. That worked out really well, huh? Thanks liberals. The rest of us want some fiscal RESPONSIBILITY because it’s OUR pocketbooks that are getting raided and no one seems to care. I should have a choice about where my 80% of my income goes to, right? There’s a balance to this.

  • Snickers

    I won’t believe Hillary is accepting this post (SoS) until I hear her acceptance statement. The UK Guardian doesn’t know everything. In the event it’s true, my support for Hillary will evaporate as I will then doubt she’s as intelligent as I had thought.
    As for Proposition 8: This whole mess reminds me of PATCO – the air traffic controllers. Their union was one of the only ones that endorsed Reagan. All other unions were telling them that Reagan was a union buster. And there you have it. They found out up close and personal the result of supporting someone like that.
    I’m a lesbian and I’ve fought in the equal rights arena my whole life and I’m 59. In a continuous series of events and remarks Barry showed how homophobic he was. Was no one in the gay community watching any of this? Did they really think Barry was going to support them? Isn’t this rather like saying Barry won’t use the FISA wire tapping when he’s in office, he’ll change it from within. Do people really believe this idiocy? Come on, how clearly does it have to be spelled out? What comes to mind is: hoisted on their own petard. I have little sympathy when the country is handed a crook and a liar as president. Do I wish that he does a good job? Sorry, I’m not that magnanimous. I hope that he shows his supporters exactly what a venal sham he and his wife are. I may not cling to guns or a Bible, but I continue to be bitter…

  • Andy

    freedomfries:

    She can be President in 2016.

    Who are you trying to fool here? Or why?

    She will not run in 2016.

  • wodiej

    if Obama really is a US citizen then why doesn’t he just show the damn birth certificate?? Because the little son of a bitch was most likely born in Kenya or Indonesia. That is not rubbish, that is an abuse of our constitution.

    you call people haters on here then you call people who are Christians a Republican disease of cancer? Wow…that’s sounding a bit like hate.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    good lord, you poor thing! i can’t believe you had a ruptured appendix for 4 months! eeeek!

    i agree with the gay rights issue. i found myself really rallying to the right during the election, but that is one of the issues that really bugs me about the conservatives.

    however, obama really has redrawn the party lines, and now it is hard to tell exactly who is where. with the dems in CA being a major force behind Prop 8 passing, it is hard to know who to be mad at.

  • TeakWoodKite

    it would have been better if Obama was a Muslim.

    He is one. By denying it he insults Allah.

    Being A muslim is not a bad thing. It is when you lie about it.
    He is a Christian? so letting people freeze makes him one?
    Listening to God Dam Amerikkka for 20years makes him one?

    Not a thing has BO done except insult everyone.

  • Andy

    It’s amazing the bamboozling that took place: only 3 groups gave BO more than 70% of the vote: blacks, gays and jewish…I still cannot get around the last one….and wonder about the second one.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    and i want to add… i have been pleasantly surprised by some of the sites on the right that i have been visiting lately. many of them have actually been in support of gay marriage. who knew? :O)

  • tek

    Ohm, no, this is GREAT! Obama has also announced he’s joining with McCain to help fix the country. He needs these people.

  • freedomfries

    Four years is one whole terms worth and is not significantly above the average for President (women also age better then men as men are more likely to get senile dementia).

    That could mean 4 terms of Democratic rule. To some party loyalists, that would be good news. Whether that is good for democracy is another matter, but I doubt we would be in the same can now if this was the Gore Presidency ending.

  • wodiej

    I can’t believe you just wrote that an Aethist should be President. Have you read the Constitution? Like it or not, our country is based on a belief in a higher power. You don’t have to believe it but an overwhelming majority of our country does, Republican and Democrat. But you got what you wanted in Obama because anyone who does the things he does is not a Christian and sitting in church does not make him one. Rev. Wright racism, hate, anger-that is not a Christian.

  • http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/ Not Your sweetie

    meanwhile, on the other side of the aisle, they are calling up people like me who screamed at them in the past
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/nys-democratic-commitee-called-me-again/

  • BJ

    … by showing some people a prison cell door

  • hadenough

    Mark Cuban = joe the plumber?

    Cuban last week:

    PE Obama’s 1st Big Mistake

    Its great to see President Elect Obama aggressively taking on the economy prior to his taking office. Unfortunately, the economic advisory team that he has put together looks more like a semester’s worth of great guest speakers for an MBA class than an economic advisory team that can truly help him.

    Notice anything missing ?

    Not a single entrepreneur. Yes Warren Buffett started a business, but he will be the first to tell you that he “doesn’t do start ups”. Which means there isn’t a single person advising PE Obama that we know of that knows that its like to start and run a business in this or any economic climate. That’s a huge problem.
    blogmaverick.com/2008/11/08/pe-obamas-1st-big-mistake/

    Mark Cuban this week:

    SEC Charges Mark Cuban With Insider Trading

    The Securities and Exchange Commission filed insider-trading charges against Mark Cuban, the outspoken owner of the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, over his sale of shares in Internet company Mamma.com after he learned it was raising money through a private financing.
    online.wsj.com/article/SB122693827604333637.html

  • freedomfries

    How about more GOP bashing for an illegal war, for destroying the economy with trillions of debt, for murdering our boys for a lie and introducing torture to America?

  • Kal

    oh for pete’s sake

    and like I still believe in santa claus too

  • BJ

    the dems were a major force behind it?

    the freak cult Mormons stuck their nose into it and spend many many millions pushign their agenda to get his bill passed in Calif, ans did the catholic church-

    the mormons are a very wealthy group and are very dangerous-

    the catholic church is another topic worth googling, to see their true wealth and where that wealth is in the world and what it is used for to influence-

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    i was kind of thinking that some people are *freaked out* or not comfortable with seeing gay couples kiss or hold hands because it is so rare to actually see (for a lot of people). if it were mainstream, it would be totally normal. but it is like a *new thing* to a lot of people?? i remember the first time i saw two men kissing, it was like *woah* (like 30 years ago, when i went to a street fair in Castro.) but for years, it has been totally normal. (and i love the couple on brothers and sisters!)

    but, I am not big on anyone showing massive displays of pda.

    and i think a lot of people would be surpised if every one that was in, came out of the closet.

  • http://watchpaul.blogspot.com Rose

    Our health insurance went from $150 a month some years back to $700 a month and climbing. That’s WITH a $5,000 deductible per person and no co-pay, no prescription coverage (Blue Cross, family of 6.) We NEVER go to the doctor, have NO medical problems – our daughter’s tonsillectomy a few years back didn’t reach the deductible threshold, so that year we paid out all that money for nothing PLUS the cost of the operation and related doctor visits.

    Another daughter fell and cut her hand on a bottle – because it required stitches, her pediatrician ‘could not’ treat her – so it meant a trip to the emergency room. A 2 hour wait, 20 minutes being ‘treated,’ $1,000 and a few stitches later, I decided next time I’m using butterfly bandages.

    Another attempted visit to the emergency room – 2 hour wait, 9 out of 10 people in the waiting room HAD insurance. What they didn’t have – and what i didn’t have – was a DOCTOR. Mine closed her practice. So have many others.

    We don’t need the government to pay our medical insurance. We DO need reasonable premiums, and a climate that isn’t forcing doctors out of business.

    It’s a complicated issue – but I say again – it is NOT in anyone’s interest to have the government take over health care.

    The current mentality is that government can do everything – that way lies the end of our country.

  • Northwest rain

    If she does this then I will have ZERO respect for her.

    This is not good news at all.

    But then she is a politician.

    Good think I’m an Independent — both parties s*ck.

  • BJ

    it is rubbish to follow the law and abide by our constitution which says you must be a born american to be the president of this country?

    this is rubbish to you?

    I want to see the religious right and the republican wackos go down the drain, but I also what honesty and integrity in our gov.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Good luck with what you have coming with Fraudbama. If that’s what you think is the correct thing to do…completely destroy America. I’m not one of the right wing nuts so you can get off my azz. I didn’t vote for Bush, either time. I don’t agree with all of the hatred towards Bush. But I certainly don’t think OVomit is the answer and I bet Bush looks great to people in a year. We were safe here in the US. No more.

  • Andy

    freedomfries:

    Stop trolling pal. We are all smart and have done all that “bashing” already for the past 8 years. Now as your beloved “Fuhrer Leader” says it’s about “the future” : so that is what and who we focus on now. Get it?

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Beautiful said…
    “But I certainly don’t think OVomit is the answer and I bet Bush looks great to people in a year. We were safe here in the US. No more.”

    and that is the achillies heal for the democrats. People don’t realize that Bush has kept us safe at any cost.

  • SFIndiePUMA

    They didn’t do any of that without the support of the Democrats. It’s the whole bunch of ‘em, Dems and Reps alike, who are responsible for the mess we’re in. And the people who voted them into office, and the people who’ve remained silent for the past 8 years. You can’t lay this all at the feet of the GOP. There’s a whole lot of responsibility and accountability to go around.

    I’m with Northwest rain – thank God I’m an Independent.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    “California’s black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, provided key support for a state ban on same-sex marriage. Proposition 8 overturns a May California Supreme Court decision legalizing gay nuptials and rewrites the state constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Exit poll data showed seven in 10 black voters and more than half of Latino voters backed the ballot initiative, while whites and Asians were split.”

    http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-gayblack8-2008nov08,0,7305752.story

    “Seven out of 10 African- American voters and more than half of Latinos backed Proposition 8, according to Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International, which conducted the exit polling used by the National Election Pool.”

    http://www.dailynews.com/ci_10910908

  • hadenough

    Bundlers working for the Obama transition

    Valerie Jarrett
    at least $100,000

    Susan Rice Member
    at least $50,000

    Penny Pritzker Member
    at least $200,000
    becoming44.org/content/bundlers-working-obama-transition

  • hadenough

    Bill raises money for a non-profit that fights aids around the world. What dirt could there possible be? Just another chance for the “liberal media” to try and trash the Clintons.

  • SFIndiePUMA

    Do I wish that he does a good job? Sorry, I’m not that magnanimous. I hope that he shows his supporters exactly what a venal sham he and his wife are. I may not cling to guns or a Bible, but I continue to be bitter…

    I’m with you, Snickers. To wish him well, and to see him succeed, is to condone how he got to where he is. It would be to condone the lies and corruption and race baiting and sexism and misogyny and secrecy and intimidation and voter fraud and financing fraud and all the rest.

    I guess I must be twisted, as Bronwyn’s Harbor said, but to reward that kind of behavior with wishes of success is NOT what I think this country needs.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    WTF? He IS a Muslim. ROFLMAO. Are we still thinking that little slip on TV was just an “oops?” “My Muslim Faith?” You gotta love when it comes from the horse’s mouth. Or, really, his azz which is the same frigging thing. Let’s see what happens for Christmas at the White House. In four years Christmas will be abolished. After all, OVomit doesn’t wear his flag pin, so he doesn’t show loyalty to anyone. He wouldn’t want to show that there are those evil, horrible CHRISTIANS in America would he? LOL LOL LOL…

  • freedomfries

    I called the Religious right a cancer on the Republican Party and they are. They have destroyed it. The Republican Party is no longer the Party of Reagan, it is the party of hate.

    The Religious right are no different to the most extreme of Islamic fundamentalists.

    The saddest thing is that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same “God”.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    and, man, i LOVE that video clip. can’t we have a pres, and staff like the West Wing? I just love that show.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Why do they call Obama the messiah?

    Because atheist’s and secularists look to him as their savior instead of a higher being.

    The religious right may have overstepped in the past, but Sarah this year was a breath of fresh air and her values in life are ones that we can aspire to emulate.

    I look to no charismatic demagogue to help through tough times.. False hope always leaves you empty.

  • section9

    A couple of things.

    One: my brother got married in CA and was quite bummed about the outcome.

    Two: the Mormons weren’t the only people behind the loss on Prop 8. Despite the Democratic propaganda, Obama leaners such as blacks and Hispanics voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8.

    Obama could have shown leadership on the issue, but his people were concerned about running up the score in the Red States. That’s why he didn’t come out against 8.

  • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly
  • BJ

    if this is your last respect for her, then you never had any in the firs tplace.

    SOS is the most prestigious job next to being president (and that includes the cartoonihs job of VP)

    it is a highly respectable job for someone who is considered excellent at the right skills in dealing with world leaders .. esp in such a time of crisis around the world with war and economies everywhere-

    Many reps are lauding the choice and even Kissinger said it’s an EXCELLENT choice and she’d be very good in this position.

    You want her to sit back and sulk for 4 to 8 yrs? that’s not the kind of woman she is- she got out of high school and went to work for family’s in need.

    she’s not the type to sit around and sulk

  • Brad

    Folks, take it easy, the debate is settled and there is no turning back. White people, except for Christians and other religious have aborted themselves out of the future. A more interesting question will be how long will the “values” of white progressives, liberals, libertarians impact the legislative process, if there still is one, in about 40 years after they are gone. My guess is not much.

  • BJ

    Because atheist’s and secularists look to him as their savior instead of a higher being

    that is utterly wrong and a load of bullshit

    thanks for adding to the low intellect on this site with an unsubstantiated rant because you’re scared of, uninformed of, and ignorant on what atheists are.

  • BJ

    (maybe), or ….. she’ll do the talking :)

    afterall, he has gone for advice to her and Bill after he won the nomnation-

    he will turn to her, Bill and other leaders in Bill’s administration how to step carefully into the international mess we are in.

  • freedomfries

    McCain would have been better than Bush.
    Palin would have been better than Bush.
    Clinton would have been better than Bush.
    Obama will be better than Bush as it is not bloody difficult.

    Bush really kept us safe. 4500 of our Soldiers killed. For a lie. Countless Iraqi citizens.

    America is hated around the World. The economy is up the creek and the paddle has been sold to the Chinese.

    He kept us safe alright.

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Well, I can’t disagree with much of what you’ve said, which is why it is all the more astonishing that right now I can still stomach the Republicans more than my former party. And how about those robo calls from camp Obama to people in CA urging them to get out and vote yes to Prop 8 – team Obama did a heck of a job motivating the AA community like that. So, yeah, the Republicans should get out of peoples bedrooms, but this New Democratic Party is about to sell this Country down stream – they’re the party of equal opportunity stomp on your Constitutional rights. While I sure as heck want Obama to succeed I refuse to be lulled by denial – there’s a storm coming.

  • Sassy

    If this country comes through another failed presidency, it will be miraculous.
    I do not believe that BO has the ability or the intelligence to handle the problems that we are facing.
    There is either going to be chaos inside this administration, or someone else will need to take the lead.
    Many of the old timers from the Clinton time have talent, but who will force the others to comply with their strategy? Bush was led around by the nose and created a horrible mess.
    I do not expect a better performance from the know-it-all!

  • BJ

    The Mormon Cult and the Catholic core spent many, many millions in Calif to defeat it-

  • teapolo

    Hillary, if she does accept this position, surely must have things in place for her to get back her Senate seat should Obama decide she is not the person for the job. If she does not have this in place, then she is finished politically. I don’t trust Obama. If Obama could be trusted, this is great for Hillary and for the country. However, I think he is using her and when he is finished, she’s history.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    How many people do you think could die if we had a world war over resources in the middle east?

    Maybe a hundred million….

    The strategy in Iraq is brilliant

  • Typewriterstreaming

    And -wow. What a medical mystery story. You really should see if you can get that on The Learning Channel or Discovery Health Channel. Who would ever think an appendix would rupture and you could walk around (albeit miserably) for weeks! That’s a total nightmare. You’re lucky you didn’t drop dead from infection! Sounds like your doing better. Very glad you had access to the insurance you needed. Thanks again for sharing this story.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    ROFLMAO…Great thinking fool. I hope you’re building a bunker in your backyard. OVomit is the biggest disgrace in this country’s history and he WILL make Bush look like Ronnie Reagan.

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Handsome…sigh…how is your day? The bad news is that a lot of people are going to find out the hard way. The really hard way.

  • Typewriterstreaming

    Valerie Jarret???? Do we have a Justice Dept. with real people in it?

  • Typewriterstreaming

    “only 3 groups gave BO more than 70% of the vote: blacks, gays and jewish…I still cannot get around the last one….and wonder about the second one.”

    I really, really don’t get the Jewish vote going for him. Do they ever check in with Israel? I’ve looked at the Israeli papers and I can’t find anyone happy about this- they’re down right scared.

  • Snickers

    NW Rain, SFIndiePUMA, I agree with you. There is a whole lot of blame to go around and the problem is no one wants to be accountable. I’m still a Democrat and I think Frank, Dodd, Leahy, Schumer, Kerry, Biden, and the rest of the stellar cast are all complicit. And I don’t mean to leave out Nancy P. They’re all in it up over their head at fault. So what do we do? I don’t know. People actually voted a liar and a cheat in as president and then handed him Congress with a red ribbon. The electorate has little emotional intelligence this “selection” cycle.
    I still want to see the birth certificate, so how about ponying it up, Barry.

  • ginaswo

    thank you bronywyns harbor :0)

  • AM

    This full-page ad appeared today in the Washington Times National Weekly (Monday November 17th edition) It will hit subscribers’ mailboxes on Tuesday.

    Three Unanswered Question:

    Was Barack Obama Born in Kenya?
    Is He Really a Citizen of Indonesia?
    Does the Constitution still Matter?

    at http://www.obamacrimes.com/

  • BernieO

    Reagan pandered to the Religious Right and they loved him, although he rarely went to church) so in a big way it IS the party of Reagan. And he he bought into the supply-sider extremist anti-tax mantra, which led to ballooning deficits just as Bush has done. Reagan also pushed deregulation which led to the S&L collapse, the precursor to our current finacial meltdown. Bush has been hell bent on pushing Reaganism rather than his father’s approach. So to me the party today is reaping the “rewards” of Reagan’s legacy.

  • imustprotest

    Yes but AAs voted for prop 8, 7 out of 10 I think. 70%…pretty high.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    I only came on to say hello sweetheart!
    People don’t understand that you have to fight… fire with fire…

    It’s unfortunate that people have not studied geography or history and have no idea about the projection of American power and the US role in protecting the world from terrorism and keeping western civilization free.
    If terrorists with box cutters and planes can do what they did can you imagine what they have planned for us next time…

    Obamabots are consumed with Iraq but fail to realize that it is part of a larger strategy for securing the middle east for decades to come.
    I can see the shield against terrorism being dismantled before our very eyes.
    The democrats are toast if we get attacked again…The mob will punish the democrats..

  • BernieO

    Forgot to add that Carter had put us on the road to energy independence and we were doing really well. Reagan told us there was plenty of oil for as far as we could predict, undid Carter’s policies and put us back on the road to energy profligacy. But he did it all with a smile which made it OK. At least to our gullible media.

  • freedom fries

    The Furher is gone in a few weeks. Then the Republicans face being out of power for years. I already said we should focus on having a proper Presidency. Universal Health Care. Education Reform. Cutting the deficit. Key aims for Democrats.

    Get it.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Sounds like a great Utopian plan circa 2006

    Too bad the world has changed since then

    Enjoy your soup and bread!

  • stodgie

    make that 2012. thanks

  • http://www.myspace.com/isomer_69 LAUREN

    Sharia law is not just about drowning your daughter in a swimming pool, it’s also about how business and banking are conducted. After the bankers take over the world, they will want to have sharia law in America and Europe.

    Go to Wikipedia and type in ‘Islamic Banking’ and read what it says under the Principals heading.

    This is where our financial system is going after we start our—as Gordon Brown puts it, “New Global Society”.

  • SfHIlary2

    Hi PUMAs. Good to see reason taking hold here. It’s silly, frankly, to expect the Republican Party to suddenly become more moderate on these issues; the moderates are being burned out of the party and what’s left is, well, Sarah Palin. And it would be exceedingly silly to support Governor Palin as a national leader while criticizing her and/or her ilk for putting the government in people’s bedrooms. They are the religious right; that is what they exist to do.

    Thankfully, we won the crashing, overwhelming victory that I spent the entire summer here trying to explain was going to happen, and the political realignment that I predicted is happening. So we don’t have nearly as much to worry about from those theocratic fascists as we used to. ;)

    cheers, PUMAs, and thank you, many of you, for your support, grudging or otherwise, for our next president. He’ll need it from us all.

  • Northwest rain

    AFter the trashing the O-zero did to Hillary — she is like an abused women and it is this behavior I have zero use for.

    Had she continued to do what she does best in the Senate — be an advocate for her state and for women — and been the vocal voice of reason — then she certainly would have retained my respect.

    But she is now being a poor example for women — and being subservient to a crook and a con artist means that she has gone over the the evil side. After all the vile behavior of the Obots — etc. and she bows down to him (yeck, vomit).

    My vote was sh*t on by the DNC, O-zero and now apparently Senator Clinton? I hope the Brits are wrong —

    O-zero is like a bad flu — the faster the Nation gets over this disease the faster we will be on the road to recovery. Any assistance in covering up his incompetence and adequacy will prolong this flu.

    So Senator Clinton is just like thousands of other women who enable incompetent ego driven fragile males.

    For this she has my contempt — someone needs to set up a website where we can predict when O-zero will rip Hillary’s heart out and feed it to the mob.

    He will you know it.

  • freedom fries

    America was already taken over by terrorists when Bush stole two elections.

    Stole.

    Whatever you accuse Acorn of – they did not win a 10 million vote majority for Obama. Bush helped do that.

    The thousands dead on 9/11, the soldiers dead, those dead from Katrina, the innocent Iraqis. Republicans are terrorist scum who deserve to be in prison.

    Torture. Extraordinary rendition. What else? For an illegal “resource” war? Do you mean oil?

    If only that was said in front of a War Tribunal.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Hey sf…Nice to hear from you..

    If Obama picks Hillary for SOS that goes a long way to showing me that he wants to be a centrist.
    I have said at great length that Hillary is a moderate and a Goldwater republican when it comes to dealing with our adversaries
    I can sleep well with her giving Obama council. I’m also impressed that Obama has brought on 31 other Clintonites to his administration.

    The 56 million that voted against Obama for the reasons expressed at length here have shown him the way to being a centrist and a president to all Americans.
    I’m cautiously optimistic!

  • freedom fries

    After 10 more weeks of Bush, we may be grateful for gruel.

  • SfHIlary2

    Bravo, BJ. Exactly. Hillary has way too much class, and loves her country way too much, to turn down such an incredibly important and prestigious job offer from the next president.

    Besides, Biden is no spring chicken either, and he had heart problems in the past. If HRC and Obama forge a strong working partnership and Biden were to decide not to run for a second term as Veep, well, then I think we can all write the rest of that script.

    Those who weren’t automatically skipping my SFHillary posts before I got banned probably will recall how often I pointed out that Hillary could absolutely run in 2016, and could possibly even run as Obama’s veep in 2012. This is an important step for Hillary, for Obama, for the Democratic Party and for the entire country. Obama clearly understands how talented Senator Clinton is and saw fit to ask her to take on a remarkable responsibility at a time when he clearly feels he’ll need to be focusing on domestic issues.

    Just another incredibly impressive executive decision by Obama, and kudos to Hillary, whom I still believe may become the first female president in January 2017.

  • Tversky

    Let me say up front: I’m pro-gay marriage. Not just “it’s OK with me” but actively PRO gay marriage. My reasons are pragmatic rather than emotional/compassionate: I think it’s much better for society as a whole if each adult commits to a single mate and settles down rather than screw around with alot of different sex partners. (Of course, I’m ignoring the fact that one doesn’t need to be legally married to be committed to that person. But I suspect for some people at least, a legal marriage makes a committment more real and enduring.)

    But having said that, I have heard something about CA law that would make me hesitant to vote against Prop 8. I’m not sure if it’s true or not so I’d appreciate the thoughts of Californians. What I heard was that kids in CA are required to learn about marriage in the classroom. Thus if Prop 8 failed there was a chance grade school children would be forced to learn about homosexual marriage. More importantly, I heard parents can’t opt out of such lessons. Is this true? If so, then I understand why alot of parents of school age kids voted for Prop 8. I don’t think the state should supercede the parent in that area. It would be one thing if parents could opt out of such lessons but I heard they couldn’t.

    I’m curious what Californians know about this. Even if what I heard was NOT true, it’s possible many parents thought it was. As such, they may have voted for Prop 8 for non-bigoted reasons (based on bad info.) It’s absurd (and let’s face it: standard operating procedure for liberal Dems) to automatically assume a conservative vote on a social issue is based on intolerance. Sometimes people have reasons that are completely unrelated to tolerance.

    One other thought about Prop 8: I find it deeply hypocritical for the protestors to target Mormons and let Blacks and Hispanics off the hook. Mormons are a relatively small part of the CA population (particularly in comparison with Hispanics.) Mormons didn’t make the difference in this vote. Blacks (who voted 70% to 30% in favor of Prop 8) and Hispanics (who voted something like 55% to 45% in favor of Prop 8 made all the difference.

    Last point:
    I hold the unpopular opinion that social conservatives aren’t the problem with the Republican Party. I think their biggest problem (in terms of popularity) is that due to a lack of real leadership in the party, the base has elevated rightwing pundits. Rightwing radio should be entertainment, not driving the party and it’s culture. But unfortunately it is. The reason I think this is bad is because as entertainers they use alot of hyperbole, shallow sloganeering, and flame throwing. They are the people that give the GOP a bad reputation as angry, hateful and shallow. It’s all about impressions and images. (Contrary to what a lot of liberal Dems think, the rank and file of the GOP is no nuttier or more intolerant than the rank and file of the Democratic Party.) Like I said, the reason rightwing pundits and radio entertainers have taken such prominence in the party is because the GOP has zero leadership. When they do get leadership the leaders (like Bush) suck up to radio. It’s a sad situation. :(

  • Northwest rain

    The more I think about that slip — the way it came out so naturally and he didn’t catch the slip — he may have told the truth for an instant.

    I don’t know — religion of elected leaders should NOT matter in this country. Problem is some brands of religion don’t have room for any other belief system.

  • freedom fries

    The black community is a small proportion of CA and they were not responsible for the Proposition Hate win.

    Do not try and make African Americans a whipping boy for Gay Rights.

  • Northwest rain

    You’re right. I wouldn’t mind if O-zero were a Muslim. It’s just that he lies about everything — that we can’t believe anything without evidence to prove he isn’t lying.

  • SfHIlary2

    Hey Seattle. Thanks for the kind words. I fear I’m only able to post today because I’m in an unusual location so the servers aren’t noticing that I was flagged and banned and cast into the fire…lol…

    I am so glad that so many folks here are voicing optimism and good wishes. It’s what I hoped and expected would happen but it’s great to see that it’s so. As for Obama: he isn’t becoming centrist — he has always been, more or less, a moderate centrist. The nonsense about radicalism and socialism was just campaign blather. Now he’s actually making real executive decisions and his intention to steer a responsible moderate course (albeit in a liberal direction) is clear.

    I couldn’t be more elated. I can’t imagine that deep down, any real progressive would feel otherwise at this remarkable election and the national repudiation of the Republicans. It is a great new era dawning.

  • freedom fries

    How about have a reasonable health care system, available for all, including the tramps and the billionaires. If you can afford better, you can choose to buy better?

    Exactly like the UK NHS. We already have the hospitals so it would actually cost less to set up.

    The richest economy in the World should not be allowing people to die because the insurance ran out.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Sf…

    The folks on the radical left will be the ones left out in the cold..Obama’s real friends maybe those that didn’t vote for him this time around.
    If Obama can show me that he is Pro Business and will not give up American power in the world then he might win me over.

  • SfHIlary2

    I like this Freedom Fries guy. Republicans are indeed terrorist scum. And they are now in the process of stealing another couple trillion dollars from the public treasury via the “bailout” which they won’t open the books for. They are criminals, period, and the looting of our collective future won’t stop until they are driven from office.

    The notion that Obama is anywhere in this class is the same lame delusion today that it was three months ago.

  • IndieDogg

    Representing the people of the State of New York in the United States Senate is sulking?

    You have a very odd definition of the term.

    Besides, nobody said being Secretary of State was a lousy job. The comment, as I took it, was about her history with this man.

    He’s the most unqualified candidate for President, possibly, in this nation’s history. She said it. She was right. Then she flips and lauds the man who flipped her off (along with her candidacy and her supporters). Then she takes a job that doesn’t have the word “president” anywhere in it (as in Vice-President), that’s being offered to her solely to solidify his “political” base (keep your friends close, and your enemies closer). She takes the job, and the single threat to him, from within his own party, is neutralized. Brilliant politics.

    The concern from Hillary’s former supporters, which I share, is not about the job. It’s about her judgment and her turning into an advertising poster for enabling abuse.

    Either you stand behind your words and you stand up for your (stated) convictions, or you don’t.

    Certainly her choice.

    And our choice to decide how we feel about it. And, about her.

  • freedom fries

    When did Gordon Brown become Muslim?

    Anyway as a result of the Republican mess with the economy, standard mortgages are now no longer usury so are Sharia compliant.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Freedom,
    Your position is a noble one and I agree that this country does little for many without health insurance as well as mentally ill vets.

    The problem is that as the nation that protects the rest of the world including our own against terrorism and the free flow of goods we’re unable to be a Sweden at this time. The threats against us by those that want to destroy western civilization are dire and we must not capitulate at this key moment.
    It would be nice if we were just some country that didn’t have to spend so much on defense so that we can have all the services that I used to enjoy living in Europe…
    But the reality says otherwise…..

  • No2ObamainMT

    I always thought CA was a liberal (blue) state. Are there really that many more GOPer’s in CA to get Prop 8 to pass?

  • rolling_thunder

    Yep you are right. It’s Obama who tipped over the marriage issue. He had robo calls going 24/7 in his own voice telling people to stop gay marriage.

    I feel for the writers physical plight but to blame Republicans for the failure of Gay Marriage legislation is bordering on hate. It is Democrats who are responsible for the current state of affairs. The voters have spoken and many were dems.

    Republicans, get the hell out of homosexuals’ lives and concentrate on

    :shock:

  • freedom fries

    Agreed and we were going to do it again with the slogan “drill baby drill”. Something that should really have horrified people.

  • imustprotest

    Ohhhh baaahhhhhhh maaaaaaahhhh
    really horrified me. The cult of personality that surrounds Barry Soretoro is horrifying.

  • rolling_thunder

    ‘saracuda’
    That’s a good question. My sentiments exactly. This will not go through. Nobama has Bill as an excuse remember?

  • imustprotest

    SF………..STFU. 2017…..STFU

  • rolling_thunder

    In a continuous series of events and remarks Barry showed how homophobic he was. Was no one in the gay community watching any of this? Did they really think Barry was going to support them? Isn’t this rather like saying Barry won’t use the FISA wire tapping when he’s in office

    You tell them. It’s sickening how they wouldn’t listen to pleas not to vote Barry because he’s a homophobe who does the downlow.

  • http://noquarterusa.net/ NoQuarter

    I have no record of you being banned, SFHillary. E-mail me at susanunpc at gmail dot com

  • freedom fries

    As opposed to the Palin worship there is with Republicans?

  • http://watchpaul.blogspot.com Rose

    Well, I’m starting to feel the unity that had come about with the PUMAS dissipate here. It’s back to Bush hate and all the generalities about talk radio. talk Radio, like the Blogs, were the only ones who tried to get the facts out. You got a taste of what happens when someone finds out you hold ‘conservative’ views.

    Please don’t go back down that path.

    Re: Prop 8 – the voters spoke once before – a few judges overturned that “will of the people” vote – resulting in this convoluted/twisted meaning proposition where yes meant no and no meant yes – and STILL the people reasserted their view.

    We are a tolerant state, extremely tolerant – do not take that vote to imply a lack of tolerance – though it may be a desire to hold the line – a line which is slipping away when you have just voted in a man who consorts with murderous terrorist bombers, killers of our policemen, when you have just elected the most extreme activist destructive fringe element of what used to be the democratic party.

    Don’t get sidetracked. Take stock of the enormous strides that have been made.

  • Drummajor

    Hi Gina, been looking for you. Wanted to say I miss you & appreciate all the support & inspiration you’ve given me. I was told I could find you over here. So I’ll hang out here from time to time just to see if I can catch you.
    Take care

  • imustprotest

    well there you go again…..geez, give it up already, can’t you stop your smears and lies?? So afraid of the Cuda aren’t you??? Good.

  • rolling_thunder

    OMG! Do you even know what the heck you are saying? This is a christian nation. Who the heck do you think the bloggers are here? No, you are spewing liberal/communism to bloggers who don’t support that..and stop bashing Repubs. Take responsibility for your own ineptness..i.e. your barky vote.

  • freedom fries

    I do not want us to be Sweden, I want us to be America and proud.

    Republicans made the idea of universal health care sound awful for those with high cost insurance packages.

    It is but those packages fall in price if the basics are provided free at the point of use through taxation.

    Margaret Thatcher, the not so Socialist Prime Minister of the UK during the 80s increased expenditure in the NHS. It is a system that works.

    If you want better you can buy it, but a basic universal system is better for the 99% of Americans that do not have disposable $50ks to spend on operations.

  • http://noquarterusa.net/ NoQuarter

    It’s all over their site. Subscribe — it’s free — and you’ll find out.

  • freedom fries

    I said nothing against Plain and there is no reason to be againt her – she lost. Like the rest of her party she is a loser. Even she admits that.

    The American people decided?

    Why do you hate America?

  • freedom fries

    Obama was born American. McCain was questionable but Senators passed legislation to let that go. Do you have a problem with that? If so why do you hate America?

  • Linda C.

    Personally I think the church should get out of the marriage business. The congregation provides a witness of two people marrying each other. The church has no authority to do anything else. It confers no rights and has no power to enforce any laws regarding marriage. The church did not get involved in marriage until the 800′s. Until that time marriage was considered a civil matter.

    Another crackpot with money is Howard Ahmanson, Jr who donated 250K to help pass Prop 8. This man favors a government run by the Old Testament Laws. In other words, Judeo-Christian Sharia.
    In 1985, Ahmanson told the Orange County Register, “My goal is the total integration of biblical law into our lives.”
    http://www.nndb.com/people/374/000058200/

    More to chew on
    http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/clinto10.html

    I have no clue if the African American community is actually aware of who is funding all of this and what it would mean if we went backwards to the Old Testament Laws. One may want to look up some of these crackpots views on slavery. The Mormons only recently accepted African Americans into their church. Fear makes strange and dangerous bedfellows.

  • freedom fries

    That is a complete lie.

    The position of Obama has always been clear – even from the Primaries. He is in favor of civil partnerships, as they have in the UK but not gay marriage. It is a word. The rights are the same but there does not need to be an unnecessary battle IF THE RIGHTS ARE THE SAME. It is on the issue of rights, his feet should be held to the fire. Sadly, this site looks less and less likely to be able to do that.

  • barry bums a ciggie

    the freak cult Mormons stuck their nose into it and spend many many millions pushign their agenda to get his bill passed in Calif, ans did the catholic church-

    How did they do this? Did they buy votes? Did they hire ACORN to register dead people to have those people vote for the ban? At the end of the day, it was Californians who voted for the ban. You’re gonna tell me that they Mormons convinced “liberals” into voting for Prop 8? Bullshit.

  • barry bums a ciggie

    the AA and latino community aren’t that small in CA.

  • freedom fries

    Which other President have you demanded the birth certificate of?

    I demand to know why TexasDarkin and her friend with the certificate no longer posts here.

    Perhaps because it is false and rubbish and even the admin people realize this. So whay are you demanding stories online?

    Are you trying to avoid taxes? There is a very thin line between evasion and avoidance. Which is it with you? Why do you hate America. Is it because you are a palin bot?

  • Linda C.

    The voters spoke on passing Jim Crow also. Those who voted for Prop 8 also voted for Obama. Obama has his robocalls for prop 8 just to get the homophobic AA and Latino community to vote for him along with passing prop 8. The LGBT community was expendable…Like where are we going to go…sweetie

    I refuse to be an expendable group or an example of someone else needing to hold their line at my expense.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Everything you and sf say fail to take into account America’s role in protecting the world and the cost for that protection

    America is the FIREWALL against a major attack that will end your way of life.
    We don’t have the money for any big changes right now and are enemies are gathering to hit us again

    Do you not understand the gravity of the situation. You and sf are quick to call republicans scum but we have not been attacked again.

    What are you going to do when we do get attacked. When money is worth nothing and real estate goes through the floor and insurance is unobtainable.

    Bush as much as you hate him has kept us safe. One attack under Obama and people will be wishing for safety at any cost…

    and I mean any cost!!!!!

  • SfHIlary2

    Hi Susan, I’ll write to you. I actually got email from customer service about it and I still can’t post from my home or office locations.

    But ya know, things were rough on us Obamites last summer, and I’m known for fighting back, I probably deserved it. ;)

  • steel magnolia

    Now that SFHillary2 is back gleefully posting for her Messiah, I’m going to have to leave this site – it’s too much to stomach.

  • http://watchpaul.blogspot.com Rose

    We’ve certainly come full circle from the 60s/70s where we lived together because we didn’t need that little piece of paper – we disdained it actually, because commitment mattered more than a state sanctioned piece of paper. Now it is militantly important.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    exactly. either he has something to hide, or he has contempt for the constitution and the american people. either way, i don’t like it.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    heh. america just got done electing bush, twice. the country is even more f-ed up now than it was then, but you think the american people made a very wise choice picking a chicago thug that most people had never even heard of a year ago for president?

    and speaking of theocratic fascists, would that be like the whole muslim world that you obamacrats are so fond of? why don’t you just move there and see how much you like it. and take president hussein with you.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    democrats helped get us into that war. some of us have not forgotten.

  • Mattsmarie

    You can stop blaming the Republicans and the church for the defeat of Prop 8. All they did was publicize the social and legal consequences that were, in fact, experienced in Massachusetts and elsewhere when same-sex marriage was legalized.

    Believe it or not, there are still millions of parents who do not wish to have the public schools teaching their children that marrying someone of the same sex is no different than a traditional marriage. It was all the true stories about kids going on a class trip to a gay wedding and not letting parents opt their child out of classes that teach about sex marriages that drove most people to vote yes on 8. How loudly would liberals scream if the class had taken a trip to a Christian wedding in a church?

    Most parents, if asked, still hope for a traditional marriage for their child with the ability to have biological children with their spouse. Because there is no denying the biological fact that same sex marriages cannot result in biological children for the partners, it will be a very difficult idea for most parents to support that same sex marriage should be taught as an equal institution to same sex marriage.

  • csuzeq

    Most Americans must hate America since they had to have any token black (who is half white) int he White House, even if it means the destruction of our country.

    I f-ing wanted Hillary. She was the one with the best platform and it was f-ing stolen from her by Token. She was going to cover way more people under her healthcare plan that Token was/is. Anybody who thinks Token gives a rats ass about the average American has shit for brains.

    I did not like McCain’s Helathcare plan either, but when the choice is bad or worse, I had to choose bad, Mccain. At the end of the day I know he loves this country and I can trust him with it. Token Odrama? no, not so much.

    I now call him token, but just realized we could call him tokin’, too. Great-a twofer.

  • Mattsmarie

    On my previous post–my last line should have read “same sex marriage should be taught as an equal institution to traditional marriage.” Sorry for the typo–

  • csuzeq

    How old do you think they’ll let a woman be and be POTUS? You know they treat women’s age differently than men. Hillary will never be POTUS. Not ever.

  • Strawberrybitch

    Oy. Please try siting a few sources. Most parents? True stories? So if a couple can’t have babies they are not equal to couples that can squeeze out a few? Gawd. The human race sucks. Or at least “most” of them that deny happiness to others because they can’t crank out a few offspring.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    uh, mccain was asked to show his BC and he did. and both of his parents were american citizens, with his father serving in the US military when he was born, fer christ’s sake.

    that’s a wee bit different than little hussein being born to a 100% foreign father and a single american woman (who subsequently married *another* foreign muslim and voluntarily left america to live in a foreign country). barry’s mom clearly had a penchant for foreigners, and it certainly is not out of the question that she could have had barry in kenya or somewhere else.

  • csuzeq

    My first clue that Hillary is just another politican was when she played politics all summer. Never stopped. Put politics before democracy by allowing a sham roll call vote at the convention. I felt sorry for her, but she is happy to play politics over country from all angles I have witnessed it.

    Hillary played to further her career, not the country so maybe now she can do both. If she gets screwed, she gets screwed. That is politics my friends and if she didn;t want to play it, she shouldn’t have rolled over and played dead for Token Odrama.

  • Strawberrybitch

    I’m sorry, but just think of all the real good she can do. And let’s face it. She’ll get the credit. We can make sure of it.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    i think you went off the rails on that one, wodiej. clearly, belief in a higher power has absolutely nothing to do with morality, intelligence, judgement, or integrity.

  • csuzeq

    Plus, why would Farrakhan, nation of ISLAM, call a christian their messiah???????

    Hello????

    Americans are so stupid lately. What the hell is in our water here? Geezus!

    I wish I could change my heritage.

    If I denounce my citizenship, do I get out of paying taxes? I’ll get free healthcare and probably my own business as an illegal alien! Hey PUMAs! Lets F with token. He’ll lose all our tax money and we’ll actually be the one to get free shit if we all become illegal aliens!

    No wonder he wants to make them all citizens. He needs to taxes to pay for his crap and he doen’t want to give away free shit! I get it.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    yep; here’s the problem: the democratic party is now trying to represent groups that are fundamentally in conflict with each other – blacks and hispanics vs. women, gays, and people who want religious freedom/equality.

  • illegal alien csuzeq

    There it’s done. I’m an illegal. No tax money for Barfy.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    regardless of the size of these communities, they are wrong and bigoted and should be called on it. nobody gets exemption from criticism.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    insurance IS the problem. the sole purpose of that industry is to take your money and give you absolutely nothing in return. i don’t want the insurance industry deciding whether i get health care or not.

  • illegal alien csuzeq

    Tell me about it. My boyfriend is Jewish and isn’t completely snookered on the kool aid, but he does like his token POTUS select. I don;t get it. Judaism is so important to his life and suddenly this year he could say, well, I didn’t say Obama would be good for Israel, but… He thinks the rest of our leaders won;t let anything bad happen to Israel. His thinking is that it is not all up to the POTUS. I think he’ll be relieved if Clinton is SOS, too. I’m not sure if it will matter though because Obarfy stole my boyfriend. I am an enemy now since I voted for Mccain.

    I don’t get it. Jews must have been given some funky kool aid.

    Obarfy has stolen my boyfriend and it’s not fair. I am way hotter than he is.

    You might think that if Mccain won I’d lose my boyfriend over election 2008, but it seems it didn’t matter who won.

    Anybody else having relationship issues overt his election?

  • athy

    Acc to official exit polls- the following categories of voters supported Prop.8 :

    82% Regular churchgoers (representing 22% total California voters) :

    82% Republican party members (representing 29% total California voters);

    70% African Americans (representing 10% total California voters)

    and 53% Latinos( representing 18% total California voters).

    http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=CAI01p1

  • NoBamaNoWay

    you may be on to something. it’s like when you give some people the vote, they vote to end elections. ironically, “progressivism” may be the cause of its own demise.

  • La Compania Volante

    I racked up a near six-figure hospital/medical bill resulting from the same cause (poisoning from an exotic source) in two incidents three years apart.

    I paid just about a third of the total bill. How could I get away with that? Because I paid cash (which, BTW, includes using credit cards). That is the discount they offered me for paying cash instead of using an insurance policy. The hospital, surgeon, etc., were ecstatic that they could get cash, within a week of performing their services.

    I know that most people can’t afford to do that, but it does tell you just exactly where the problem with health care in this country lies–the health insurance companies.

    Think about it.

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Obots worship Obama. It’s all a leap of faith, isn’t it?

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Now we only have the Obama fascists to worry about. Change we can believe in, yeah!

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    “O” shit! Say it ain’t so Hillary!

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Yeah, the Pod Dems tilted the vote in favor of Prop 8. My household was a recipient of one those insidious Obama robo-calls.

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    csuzeq—you are so right!

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Wishing Obama well is like wishing Hitler well. I think he will eventually hang himself on his own petard though, as they say. There are just too many unknowns and secrets with this guy. His past will come to haunt him, and the country will suffer from it.

  • Rosa

    My hope and optimism that this was a forum that rose above partisanship, and was holding together in the spirit of protecting our constitutional form of government is a bit disquieted here. These posts starting with yours SBB show an absense of tolerance for our pluralistic society where we allow our different opinions to gain acceptance among one another, in time and with civility and respect.

    Prop 8 passed because of the AA vote followed by the Hispanic vote, together with other traditional family oriented voters. They said no. They’re not ready.

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Obama himself demanded that McCain produce his BC, but apparently the Constitution doesn’t apply to BO.

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    Right on, Barry!

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    HELLO! But we were indeed attacked under GWB’s watch! Or have you forgotten 9/11?

  • Tyrione

    She accepts the Talking Head of Obama overseas position and she’s admitting to retiring from Presidential Politics, permanently.

  • JozefAL

    Freedomfries, go back and look at HOW the Republicans became the “party of Reagan”. If Jerry Falwell’s fucking “Moral Majority” hadn’t looked at Reagan’s social conservative agenda and like what they saw and then backed him with money and time, the “Party of Reagan” would never have become so beholden to the conservative Christian movement. (Granted, Reagan and then Dubya largely ignored the Religious Right when it came to enacting social legislation; Bush the Elder paid for his failure to really kowtow to the Religious Right in 1992–the Relgious Right wasn’t happy with Bush in 1988 but saw him as far better than the Dukakis alternative and was willing to support his candidacy following the GOP Convention. Because of his failure to press the Religious Right’s social agenda to its liking, the Religious Right largely sat out in 1992. But the Religious Right saw Dubya as *their* guy in 2004 largely because of his opposition to the gay marriage issue, and with so many states putting the gay marriage ban issue on their ballots that year, Dubya got the added support he needed to win the election.)
    If it hadn’t been for that infusion of religious conservatives moving to the GOP in 1980, Reagan’s election that year might not have happened. (Reagan had run for the GOP nomination in 1976 which earned him the early interest of the religious conservatives, but after Ford got the nomination, many of those religious conservatives saw Carter as a genuine alternative. He was devoutly religious who wasn’t embarrassed about his church-going; he was a genuine “born-again Christian” and not even the Playboy interview hurt him with the religious conservatives–the interview, in fact, pointed out that he was only a mere human being, who tried, not always with success, to strive to live up to the standards of Biblical teachings. That “lust = adultery” comment, while viewed with derision from sectarian circles, struck the right chord with the religious conservatives. But when Reagan got the nod in 1980, the party’s platform was molded in a more conservative vein–not just politically and economically, but also socially, and it was that last aspect that lured in the born-agains who’d helped put Carter in the White House in 1976; Carter, of course, was bound by a platform that largely appalled those born-agains.

  • Baba Rum Raisin

    Carville is The Help. When you’re done paying them, who cares? The Help’s opinion is like their asshole bellybutton: they have one, they’re entitled to it, it may be very important to THEM, but almost no one else cares.

  • Baba Rum Raisin

    OUTstanding, Snickers!

  • Uppity Woman

    I’m rolling my eyes here.

  • NetherLands

    Right on. Nowadays people are so confident of being right that they need the state to say they are. As if the state is the beginning and end all of what’s right or wrong. The current anarchy in Ca and elsewhere really helps acceptance, too.

    Obama Bought The Presidency

  • http://investigatebarackobama.blogspot.com/ kat in your hat

    “I am rooting for Barack Obama to do well because our country needs him to succeed.”

    Is this the new cross over talking point? Same sentence keeps getting repeated all over the media, etc.

    I don’t want the USA to fail, I just want talking points to fail.

  • Tversky

    Rose:
    I’m not against talk radio. I’m against talk radio leading the Republican Party. But that’s not talk radio’s fault. It’s the fault of the Republican Party for not having strong leadership.

    But the truth is I see something similar happening in the Democratic Party with MoveOn.Org and their lefty mouthpieces DailyKos, Huffington Post, etc.

    Both parties need real leaders. One of the ONLY things I like so far about Obama is that it at least APPEARS like he’s willing to throw the HuffPost/DailyKos/MoveOn crowd under the bus on a few issues. It gives me hope that he’s his own man and not a pawn of these groups. But we’ll have to see what he actually does.

  • Tversky

    I wanted to add:

    One of the reasons I was drawn to McCain is because he wasn’t beholden to talk radio or any other GOP leaders for that matter. He did what he felt was the right thing and in the best interest of the country, regardless of the consequences to himself and his career. I haven’t always agreed with him but I’ve always respected his independence.
    Alot of rightwingers hate him for that. They call him a traitor the party and the conservative movement. But in my opinion, if more Republicans had McCain’s balls when it came to calling out corruption in their own party and telling the President he’s doing the wrong thing, the GOP would be in better shape now with the public.

    Talk radio’s longstanding hatred of McCain is a huge reason why I don’t take seriously any of their hysterical condemnations of McCain vis a vis Palin. (Particularly since McCain has defended her multiple times and she has stated she adores him.) These people (most rightwing talk radio pundits) have zero credibility with me when it comes to McCain. They have consistently interpreted everything the man does or says as a personal shot at the party or conservatism itself – they never think he might just be doing what he thinks is the right thing. It’s too over the top to take seriously. I think they were just looking for a reason to trash him again now that the election is over because his lack of fealty to conservative orthodoxy is heretical in their eyes. They don’t want him to have any power in their power. Anyway, I digress…

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