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Economic/Market Highlights 11/17

I am going to save all the readers here extensive verbiage so as not to be overly morose about the ongoing challenging economic environment. I will offer my thoughts and comments on a few of the higher profile stories as indicators of what is going on, broadly speaking.

1. G-20 Summit….I had high hopes that commitments to global coordinated tax cuts would emanate from this summit. Talk about a major “whiff” on behalf of the global leaders. All I see is that leaders expressed a “promise” to work together on the critical issues. Wow, how gracious of them. Over and above this promise, I sensed that global leaders want to wait until the Obama administration takes charge and work with them. Believe me, with all due respect to Barack and team, if anybody thinks they have a magic bullet and will “inspire” a heightened level of confidence in the markets and economy, well….don’t hold your breath.

Read more on how “G-20 leaders Tighten Grips on Banks”

2. The Bush administration indicates that it will not allocate any of the remaining $350bln that Congress approved under the TARP (Troubled Asset Repurchase Program). I read this as the administration (specifically Paulson) is aware that the money is not flowing through the credit channels to consumers. I also read it as putting the political pressure and onus on the Democrats.

Let Barack sign the checks so that he and the Dems will have their signatures on whatever bailouts and further socialization occur, especially in the auto industry!! Markets read this as a further indication that losses are so deeply embedded in the system that only time and “private money” can truly bring needed change. But how does “private money” receive incentive to enter the market? Let that private money have a greater slice of the returns via a decrease in the capital gains tax rate.

Read more about how “Paulson Unlikely to Launch New Rescue Programs”

3. Citigroup announces layoffs of 50,000, representing app 15% of their global workforce. Reviews by many indicate that “the model” is broken. We wrote extensively about this “originate to distribute” model last week and highlighted how it is broken. Worth a review if you have not read it. “Wall St. Model is Broken….and Won’t Soon Be Fixed”.

Read more about “Citi Lays out Plan for Cuts”

3. We are also seeing more and more indications that banks are increasing rates on credit cards knowing full well that they will have to put the loans written on those cards right into their portfolios.

4. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are only able to finance themselves via the short term debt market. Lenders will not buy longer term debt from these entities because of the fear that Uncle Sam will realize that you can’t have a socialized housing finance system in perpetuity. Given F/F’s inability to place long term debt, I think that there is a very strong chance that F/F will significantly slow their purchase of newly originated home mortgages and that those mortgage rates will likely move higher to a level where private money is willing to purchase them. In my opinion, if you are looking to take out a mortgage, I would do it sooner rather than later.

5. A number of major insurance companies saw their stocks fall 20%+ today as the market realizes that these entities are also sitting on a significant level of embedded losses in their investment portfolios along with likely losses in variable annuities written that guarantee a fixed payout (Hartford, Met Life, Prudential).

6. Goldman Sachs senior executives announce that they will forego bonuses in 2008. Well, with their stock down 70% on the year that is mighty gracious of them.

In summary, today’s news and market price action indicates to me that both the governments and market participants are coming to the realization that there truly is only so much that can be done. Ultimately, a market will find its own level where buyers (private money) enter and purchase assets from sellers. While sellers of assets certainly want government intervention to maintain a “false” sense of market equilibrium, the unintended consequence of that is that the buyers stay on the sidelines that much longer.

The other subtle story that I see in today’s news is the sense that Bush and team are very clearly telling the Dems and Obama, “if you’re so smart, then be our guest and figure it out”. As an American, I wish Obama and team all the best, but the market is the market and it is neither easily fooled nor appreciative of policies that punish private capital at the behest of promoting social good. The market is very supportive of policies that support private capital that generate social good. Make no mistake; the housing policy for the last 5 yrs has been one based on “socialized finance”. If we make the same mistakes with the auto industry and others, our collective pain will last that much longer. (Seeing a breaking story that Senator Reid is unveiling a bill to aid the auto industry)

We are seeing this lesson every day; whether we are learning from it is an entirely different matter. Given that policy makers who brought us the socialized housing finance system are also now working on auto policy makes me and other private investors nervous about committing capital into this market.

LD

  • indypol

    Everyone needs to send Hillary email telling her to turn down the Secretary of State position! Do you remember the old adage, ‘Keep your friends close and your enemies closer’? Well, the adage applies here.

    Obama is trying to do to Hillary what Bush did to Powell. By entangling her in his own foreign policy bungles, and there are likely to be many, he will 1) destroy her credibility in foreign policy, 2) probably surround her with people who will constantly undermine her vision (ie. Cheney/Rumsfeld/Feith/Wolfowitz and Rice undermined Powell ar every turn), 3) deprive her of contact with local political leaders in various states (which is necessary for another presidential run), and 4) most importantly, deprive her of an independent policy and institutional platform in the Senate.

    He wants her to answer to him, not her constituents or political leaders, just like she was forced to do after she conceded in June. He and the Democratic leadership will just keep on raping her.

    She has done enough for this rancid political party and its roving pack of cronies and Obama-enablers. She should keep her independence and stay in the Senate. We need brilliant Senators badly to keep Odumbo in check. The only good thing about the election is that we got rid of a bad Senator!

    Don’t take the position, Hillary.

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

    • Mr. X

      I’m hearing she’s already accepted. Maybe Hillary wants to get Obama’s passport? She’d be in charge of passports and immigration laws.

      About the economy, I think Obama is in over his head. I think he wants Hillary to advise him (and/or take the fall) since the economy will have to be dealt with home and abroad.

    • S. Markom

      I think she has already accepted the position.

      It would mean she made her choice to take herself out of any further campaigning for any position to to end her political career in foreign policy. She must assume that Obama will run for a second term which measn she will be be one year short of 70 years old.

    • csuzeq

      I can’t tell her not to take it. I want her to. She will not run for POTUS again, there is just no way. That dream is dead. She can’t run against Obama in 2012. She wouldn’t go against the party to demand a real roll call. She is not who we thought she was. She puts her politics above the country so I say Hillary play politics again and if she gets screwed, well, I think she knows what she is doing. hopefully as a country we will be safe for a bit with her in there. I think she may be climbing the ladder to make way for a Chelsea Clinton in Government someday, too. friends in high places. I hate to have Obama be her boss, but I think the Clintons have some friends in high places to keep them safe, too. I hope so anyway.

    • Snickers

      LD, thank you for your article. I am learning so much about economics and what’s going on in this economic catastrophe because of you. I always look forward to reading your great stories.
      To Indypol: I agree with you. Run, Hillary run away from The One.

  • socalannie

    Thanks LD! My husband & I always appreciate your column!

    • rw

      ditto.

  • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

    Hillary has already taken the position..

    Congratulations Hillary!!!

    You will light up the world!

    • rolling_thunder

      UGH. :eek:

      • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

        I know… I see both sides of this issue..

        I voted for Hillary because she was the strongest on foreign policy.
        Hillary has done everything she needs to do in the senate. Hillary ran a great campaign and won in my estimation. The position of SOS will give Hillary even more prestige on the world stage.
        I have been making the strong points about foreign policy and the threats we face for weeks.
        Hillary eases some of my fears as she is strong and understands our adversaries. Anyone that could have been a Goldwater Republican gets my vote in a dangerous world. Hillary will give Obama good council and values country before self.
        Obama will not hurt his administration by playing games and I believe he chose Hillary because she is the BEST choice for the country.

  • LisaB

    Interesting stuff. It’s beginning to look like we will experience massive job loss for a while. That means lots of competition for available jobs and ripple effects of companies going under.

    So, if you’re a seller, no one’s buying. If you’re job seeking, there aren’t too many available. If you’re trying to sell your house; well, don’t. If you’re trying to buy a house, good luck with getting a mortgage.

    And just because you have a job in government or schools doesn’t mean you won’t be affected. If local tax revenue falls (and it will), then cuts will happen there as well.

    Thanks for keeping us updated, LD. This is the biggest story of the year – not BO. We just can’t see the edges of the story yet, and we don’t understand enough of the economy to see the tentacles of this thing.

    • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

      Hey Lisa,
      I mentioned the other night that my company is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to monitoring the overall health of the economy…
      As a manufacturer of industrial packaging supplies. I have seen a drop off of business like a light switch going off…Very scary!!
      This includes companies I deal with everywhere including in Canada.
      It’s like business just stopped..No movement
      I called people in all types of industries today and they are just doing nothing…Just sitting in shock!

      In all my years I have never been worried…Till Now!

      • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

        Just to clarify…My business was roaring along with 30% growth up until 2 months ago..
        What happens with industrial packaging is that we are the first to see the negative growth but also the first to recover later.

        • Cubs in 09

          SM…

          I always enjoy your thoughtful comments. Best wishes!

          On the economy and history… I heard the author of this book on Bill Cunningham’s Sunday night radio program. My 82-year-old mom refused to listen to any criticism of FDR. She LOVES him. Anyway, I listened with rapt attention. I’d like to read this book. Has anyone here read it? What did you think? Is the BO administration about to adopt the same policies? If so, then…?

          New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR’s Economic Legacy Has Damaged America
          by Burton W., Jr. Folsom

          • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

            Hey Cubbie..I lived in Glen Ellen in the 60′s as a crew cut little league kid who’s Dad took me to Wrigley field for most games.

            I remember Banks and Williams and 1969
            I will always love the Cubs

            • Cubs in 09

              Seattle! Greetings from Wrigleyville West (of the Mississppi).

              I love Ron Santo, too. Can’t listen to a game if it’s not Pat (Hughs) and Ron Santo. I still have family in Naperville and went to the Univ of Chicago. I will not donate to them anymore because they hired a certain Marxist couple to teach there. Grrr!

              I guess I had no luck this year in baseball or presidential elections. :mrgreen:

              As a true Cubbie fan, I’ll say, “There’s always next year.”

              • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

                The Mariners had the momentum in 2001 with most games one in history up until that fateful day in September. After that all joy just disappeared along with their season.

          • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

            I have posted this before..
            I have always prided myself as an FDR style liberal…But after reading this I’m not sure anymore.
            Raising taxes and tariffs in a recession is a pure recipe for a long depression

            http://townhall.com/columnists/DavidRStokes/2008/10/05/fdr_and_the_great_deflation

            • Cubs in 09

              I have always prided myself as an FDR style liberal…

              Same here. With the book I referenced above, your link, and other comments online and in the MSM, I’m becoming more than a bit concerned. The one thing I have going is that my folks talked about the Depression so much that I learned about the dangers of debt and the importance of saving (even on a teacher’s salary!).

      • Mr. Natural

        I’ve heard some strange things about shipping. Ships turning around mid-ocean. Letters of Credit are no longer enough to get that cargo unloaded. The Baltic Dry Ships index, once a measure of shipping costs, now an indicator of shipowners’ desperation, has plunged to a six year low.

        http://investmenttools.com/futures/bdi_baltic_dry_index.htm

        • Northwest rain

          Last Month I was in a sailboat in the Straight of Juan de Fuca. This is where International shipping arrives and then heads for Canada or US ports.

          We saw lots of shipping traffic on the Canadian side — but zero ships loaded with shipping containers. This is the first time in over a decade of sailing in the WA state waters where we saw NO shipping containers, even on a short day sail we’d see huge ships heading into Seattle.

          I don’t know what the lead time is for a huge cargo ship –loaded with shipping containers. To me this indicates a very deep slow down.

          Perhaps the huge freighters will start arriving for the expected holiday buying season? Costco is already supplied with Christmas junk — so I sort of think that most of the Christmas supplies are already here.

          Could it be that if America isn’t (can’t) buy Chinese stuff — then why loan Uncle Sam money??

  • Tristan

    Don’t worry. Obama and McCain met today and said they were going to “fix up” the country. So we’re all good. If you need me I’ll be in the park huddled around a trash can fire.

    • shadow

      Are you sure they didn’t mean f*ck up the country? LOL

    • tampagurl

      If you need me I’ll be in the park huddled around a trash can fire.

      LOL, back when congress went on break before passing an energy bill; I was here screaming for everyone to write pelosi and insist congress let oil companies drill any damn place they wanted to.

      I said the high gas prices would cause a major melt down. Most people here at the time was against drilling. I told them then I would see them in the soup lines. I also told them once it started it would be like a snowball rolling down hill.

      Congress and Obama wanted high gas prices because they wanted to force us to change to a more environmentally friendly fuel.

      I argued we weren’t ready for it yet, to many of us had SUV’s that we couldn’t just get rid of, the auto industry didn’t have a decent alternative yet either.

      By the time congress came back and passed their bullshit head fake energy bill, designed to take the issue away from the repubs, it was to late.

      Anyway, that’s my opinion. The economy might have sped out of control regardless, because truthfully our government is so corrupt, they’re to busy make backroom deals and running for reelection to get anything done.

      By the way when I say all, I mean it! Some of you might wish to keep up the fairytale; Believing in some of our politicians but this election has taught me not to be so naive.

      • Mr. Natural

        The shafting we’ve been getting has been a thoroughly bipartisan effort.

        As far as I’m concerned, the party labels, Democrat and Republican, aren’t much more than gang colors.

        • tampagurl

          I couldn’t agree with you more, Mr. Natural.

      • Snickers

        I am also not so naive about the politicians these days – all of them.
        As for the congressional recess in August before they acted on the energy problems, I was outraged they even went on recess with our country in such a fix. This has been a “historic” election year which has opened my eyes to things I used to not notice.

  • rolling_thunder

    Let me add some new recent news about this bailout. A Repub senator called for the Freeze on the remainder of that bail-out money. He claimed there was no oversite after all, like they promised there would be, and he also claimed that $290b could have been passed out to his (Bernake) friends for all he knew. They froze the dispersing of the remainder of the first 350b..

    • Cubs in 09

      I think you might be referring to Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma. Sensible people those Oklahomans…

  • blogforceone

    The crux of the problem is that we don’t manufacture anything here In America anymore.the last 10 years of consumer spending was laegely borrowed money from ever increasing real estate values. Now. all the money is gone but the debt service remains.current consumer savings are at zero percent .Fees from banks , credit cards and municipal taxes are mushrooming out of control. This eliminates any hope for consumer savings with looming federal taxes on all fronts ready to skyrocket.! The only way a sound economy can function is the old school way. Work leading to savings and when enough is saved you buy something…!!! Virtually all economic activity recently has been with borrowed money and this lending has come crashing down devaluing everyones savings and real estate holdings. All interest rates have to be fixed at 5 pct or under for a period of five years at minimum and all taxes , individual and corporate need to be halved for the same time period. A freeze on govt groth should be mandated while this massive deficit spending has to be ended forthwith to avoid crowding out ligitimate borrowers in need of funds. In a very short time from now Sovereign wealt fund will have no cash to lend as their domesticcrises will require all remaining funds in order to stave off looming dometic unrest. For the U.S. the open ended credit window will be closed indefinitely. We will have to re learn how to make stuff profitably again while teaching a whole generation how to work’ save, and then invest. Without these kind of fundamental policy descisions all roads lead to a further collapse in doestic and world markets… Let’s get to work!!

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & While You Wait Exorcisms

      The problem is both parties are now big spenders. How do you get the idiots in DC to stop borrowing themselves?

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & While You Wait Exorcisms

      How do you get both political parties who are now addicted to borrowing to stop kiting checks?

      • tampagurl

        Houses weren’t worth what they were selling for anyway. I bought my house in 2005 and we had to wait in line at builders sites. After finding a house we wanted, I wanted to take a couple of days to be certain and the darn house went up $10,000.

    • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

      “The crux of the problem is that we don’t manufacture anything here In America anymore.”

      That’s news to me!

      I manufacture product to a thousands of producers and manufacturers all over the Northwest. All types of products in all industries.
      This thought that we don’t make anything anymore is just bogus!
      I’m actually competing against China and they are losing on price and quality.

      • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & While You Wait Exorcisms

        I think they were implying no meaningful level of manufacturing. I don’t think they meant zero level literally. :mrgreen:

        • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

          Galt,
          The companies I deal with are of all sizes..

          Billions,millions and thousands…

          You wouldn’t believe all the types of necessary manufacturing out there
          On one street in Seaatle
          Largest cement manufacturer
          Major glass manufacturer
          Biggest fish processor
          Furniture manufacturer
          Airplane parts company
          meat processing
          Bakeries
          The list goes on…What I make is crucial for civilization like these these other companies.

          I see more companies coming down from Canada to set up business
          I see the Chinese and others becoming less competitive…A container can cost $100k just for the container to transport.

          I know we don’t make alot stuff for walmart and TV’s and bobble head dolls but the crucial stuff that we need to survive along with food is made right here in the US

          • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & While You Wait Exorcisms

            That’s good to hear. How does the level of manufacturing compare to 50 years ago? How does it compare to other countries?

            • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

              Galt.

              50 years ago we were like China..
              Dirty air
              Dirty water
              lousy labor practices
              and no thought for the environment

              Now we are clean and our standard of living is 50 years ahead of the communist country.

              What is happening now for China is that the people are rising up against the pollution and demanding better pay and housing which adds to costs of manufacturing..

              The rest of the world is beginning to suffer worse than the US..
              My prediction…I’m bullish on manufacturing here in the US.

            • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & While You Wait Exorcisms

              BTW I don’t know anything about this subject and not picking an argument with you. But this might interest you, although it is from an old report from 2004. What I found disturbing was although we still obviously manufacture, the employment numbers are way down to 1950 levels. That can’t be good.

              The manufacturing sector was
              particularly hard hit, not only in terms of
              declining output, but also in terms of
              declining employment. Manufacturing
              employment fell by 2.7 million over the
              past 36 months, and in February reached
              its lowest level since 1950. The recent
              drop in manufacturing employment was
              the biggest cyclical decline since 1960.
              As the U.S. economy has recovered from
              the recession and growth has surged,
              employment in the manufacturing sector
              has been slow to recover. Slide 2 shows
              this unusually slow recovery in
              manufacturing employment compared to
              during past recessions

              • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

                Galt,
                Heavy traditional manufacturing has taken a serious hit over the years
                However, we used to talk about the rising sun Japan taking us over in the 80′s and while their cars have done very well they have not prospered nearly as mush as we feared. In fact Japan has just declared today that they will be in recession for the next 18 months.
                This will be the same for China.. We fear their rise but it is contingent on our success. They are going down too

                • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

                  Before everyone believes we’re down for the count I want to list the GDP of the 12 largest economies

                  The United States…..$13.8 Trillion
                  Japan……………….4.4
                  Germany……………..3.2
                  China……………….3.1
                  UK………………….2.8
                  France………………2.6
                  Italy……………….2.1
                  Spain……………….1.4
                  Canada………………1.4
                  Brazil………………1.3
                  Russia………………1.3
                  India……………….1.1

                  As you can see reports of the US demise is unfounded.
                  The emerging markets in the past six months have lost up to 60% of their value

                • Mr. Natural

                  Manufacturing plants are much more automated than they were in the ’50s.

                  I did some debugging of an inspection system in a Michigan (Ford) engine plant. There was nobody around. Nobody. It was just me and acres of automation. The entire plant only required ten or twenty people to run it.

                  Those engine blocks just kept a rollin’, rollin’ on down that line.

                  • Mr. Natural

                    This was in response to Galt’s valid point about employment numbers. We are much more efficient than we used to be.

                    Unfortunately, much of the money spent at Walmart and on foreign goods returns here, not to purchase our products, but to purchase entire American manufacturers, manufacturing plants, and industries.

                    How’s that for a kick in the teeth?

                    We cannot survive as a service economy.

                    • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

                      So very true Mr Natural.

                      I have warning about this paper pushing economy for years. Now we are going to go through the ringer
                      I feel bad for all the regular people with small businesses that will be surplus to the new economy.

                      Strip centers will be empty and coffee shops will close..Hopefully we will start making more things locally that in recent years disappeared.

          • Snickers

            We don’t have as many steel plants in the U.S. Many aluminum companies are shut down and idle, much of the non-ferous industry is also down – way down. Perhaps Seattle has those manufacturing plants – Oregon has some as well, but the large industries, the ones that manufactured our infrastructure needs, many of those are gone. Don’t believe me; go visit some of those former steel towns. Or some of the sites where Reynolds used to be or Martin Marietta or I could go on and on. I worked for a large union – we lost 600,000 members who were not able to get comparable jobs in the service sectors. This was, I admit 20 years ago, but I doubt those jobs have come back the way they were. So while yes, there are manufacturing jobs and smaller steel rolling mills, the large mills which provided thousands of jobs and supported whole towns or more are gone. Just like in many other sectors. In FDR’s time we had large industries providing jobs, now, it looks like we might even lose the many jobs in the auto industry. I don’t have any answers, but I think Obama has even fewer than I might have.

  • rolling_thunder

    THE WHITE HOUSE
    PRICE: $650,000,000 PLUS
    BUYER: Millionare couple from Chicago.
    FINANCING: WEALTHY DONORS, $60,000,000 Questionable Foreign Donations, $300,000,000 small donations (buyer refuses to reveal their names).

    • tampagurl

      ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

  • rolling_thunder

    The Democratic Party and Obama achieves and seizes power by seeing people not as the Constitution’s framers saw people, as individuals (”We the People”), but uses them as a cynical means to an unholy end – using Machiavellian, Marxist and Alinsky tactics, divide people into warring factions: men against women, blacks against whites, Jews against Muslims, proper against the perverse, handicapped against able-bodied, workers against employers, straight against gays, “the haves vs. the have nots.”
    It’s all madness. Objectively speaking, liberalism is national genocide!

    Those of the Obamaism liberal persuasion (and I’m talking about those that truly believe the claptrap they’re spewing) have a mental disorder.
    I have no party now.
    When it looked like McCain was winning this, business was brisk. Now with the sheer madness of liberal obommmunists about to take over, business has gone back into paralysis.

    Characteristics of BO’s liberalism/communism (Obamaism) that are associated with the classic symptoms of madness:
    * creating and reinforcing perceptions of victimization;
    * satisfying infantile claims to entitlement, indulgence and compensation;
    * augmenting primitive feelings of envy;
    * rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating them to the will of the government.

    Remember the song :going walking?
    I’m going walking, searching for my party.

    • Strawberrybitch

      Oh God. Liberalism=communism? For Christ’s sake, man. If you think Barky is a liberal, then you’re as wacked as you sound.

      • rw

        What is Barky? Seems Barky is anything people want him to be…and that’s just how he planned it.

        If some want him to be a liberal, he’ll be their liberal.
        If some want him to be a centrist, he’ll be their centrist.
        If some want him to be right of center, he’ll be there too.
        If some want him to be their savior, he’ll be their savior….have them believing he’ll provide for their gas and mortgage. Looks like he fulled everyone.

        • rw

          fooled, sorry.

      • Cubs in 09

        I confess! I’m wacked!

    • tampagurl

      “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

      Thomas Jefferson

      • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

        Tampa…Good Evening!

        That reminds me of my latest bumper sticker from CafePress that I’m putting on one of my filing cabinets at work…

        “A government big enough to give you everything you want,is strong enough to take everything you have”

        Thomas Jefferson

        • tampagurl

          How ya doing Seattle? Don’t you just love old Tom? He sure was insightful.

          • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

            Tampa,
            I’m a jeffersonian!

            I hope you have a chance sometime to click on my name and listen to Mark Levin.
            I have learned so much about Liberty and freedom and the workings of the free market economy.

            I once was a Reagan democrat..I still am!!

            • tampagurl

              Hey thanks Seattle, I bookmarked that site. I’ll check it out tomorrow.

  • blogforceone

    No disespect Seattle Moss! I salute you for your manufacturing here in the U.s.S. of A. What I am referring to is the manufacture of textiles, furniture, power tools, electronics. components for myriad items for use here… It’s gone..!!! We need to bring it bsck! fast China may collapse with unrest and be unable to supply us with anything soon. Their govt is WAY too fragile to sustain a prolonged recession. They have a history of revolt under such conditions .. If that happens, we won’t even be able to buy a light bulb! Wake up America!!!!!!

    • http://www.marklevinshow.com/ Seattle Moss

      What I’m seeing is new manufacturing opening up here in the US. They have to call me for industrial bags because they can’t ship or make anything without them. Especially Canadian companies that set up shop when the value of currency went to parity.
      We may suffer for awhile because of the products you have mentioned…

      However, unlike times before everything has been made and can be reused. Instead of throwing everything out when it breaks perhaps things might get repaired..
      The salvage industry is going to be huge in the next few years… Especially with anything marine liker boats.

  • Mr. Natural

    Here’s one for the moral hazard hall of fame.

    Three weeks ago, Bank of America accepted $15 billion from TARP.

    So what did they do to add liquidity to those frozen credit markets; what did the Bank of America do to strengthen America?

    They bought 20 billion shares of a Chinese bank.

    http://www.moneymorning.com/2008/11/17/china-construction-bank-corp/

    Just when you thought the heights of Wall Street depravity had been reached, Wall Street sets another record.

  • warehouse553

    Am I the only one concerned about Hillary’s future? I’m sorry for the country, but the Democrat Party and particularly 90% of AAs, used affirmative action and race baiting to force an unqualified black candidate on the people. They cheated Hillary out of the Presidency and now they offer her this position, with all due respect, which is beneath her! She should be the President Elect. I’m sorry but I am so angry! I say let the unqualified black man sink so that the country can see what the consequences are for making the wrong choice so that you can claim you are not a racist! I want him to fail because I do not want the Democrats to do this again!

    Jesse Jackson Jr could become the next nominee. You think it can’t or won’t happen, 90% of blacks voting for him will guarantee it!

    • csuzeq

      Hillary likes playing politics. That was clearly evident when she stuck her nose up Barfy’s ass.

      She can serve the country she spit on now and be a good girl. That’s how she plays.

      To me now Hillary is just another politician. She is on the same level as Odrama, just maybe not as corrupt…yet.

  • tampagurl

    Hillary’s a big girl. If you thought she was strong enough to be president, you have to believe she’s no ones fool.

    • Mr. Natural

      Good point.

  • warehouse553

    Tampagurl,

    Hillary did everything she could to help him win! Now let him sink or swim on his own! I don’t want the country to suffer but there must be consequences for making ill chosen decisions. If not history will repeat itself. Brazille, Dean, Pelosi, ACORN and the media will do it again because they were allowed to get away with it. He’s not capable of running this country and people have to see it. The country must see why using affirmative action to select a candidate for President is dangerous.

    I still can’t believe he stole the Nomination and the Presidency and no one will say anything because they fear being branded a racist. This is so unfair!

    • tampagurl

      I have to say the thought of Obama in the White House sickens me. Never the less, whatever choice Hillary makes, will be what she deems best for her.

      we should not put any of our politicians on pedestals because when it comes down to it they are what they are.

  • warehouse553

    I hoped for the day to come when Democrats would take back the White House and yet I feel no joy at the prospect of Obama being President.

    I do wonder however how the media will spin an Obama Administration not pulling out of Iraq immediately as promised.

    • csuzeq

      The media already had Chris Mancrush tell us that they will make him look good because America needs a successful Presidency. No one will spin anything negatively. To me that is not a good way to start a Presidency, by announcing that he can get a free pass on everything and all will look the other way when it’s bad.

      I, too, have dreamed of the day when the dems were back in the house. I had hoped for Hillary of course. Now I see no difference in who gets in there because it is all corruption, corruption, corruption. There is the Government, who will all be saved no matter if it is from terrorists or financially, and then there are us people. We will be fending for ourselves. There is no one on our side. Everyone realizes that, right?

  • tampagurl

    We’ll have to keep our eye on Obama. I think he will be careful his first term because he will want to get reelected.

    So we must try and stop him from having a second term. I hope the Repubs find someone that can beat him by then.

    • csuzeq

      Sorry. I am pretty sure he purchased 8 years. The media has always said 8 years for Obama. The fix is in, so settle in for 8 long years.

  • TeakWoodKite

    The cold reality of an economic winter sets in.

    Wilbur: Congratulations! How many are there?
    Goose: There are seven.
    Charlotte: Seven is a lucky number.
    Goose: Luck has nothing to do with it! It was good management and hard work.
    Templeton: [looking at a solitary unhatched egg] Why didn’t, uh, this one hatch?
    Goose: [gloomily] It’s a dud, I guess.
    Templeton: What are you going to do with it?
    Goose: [sternly] You can have it! Throw it away and add it to that nasty collection of yours! Be careful – a rotten egg can be a regular stink bomb!
    Templeton: [patting the egg] I know what I’m doing. I handle stuff like this all the time.
    [Templeton rolls the egg away]

    .

  • AF catfish

    The other subtle story that I see in today’s news is the sense that Bush and team are very clearly telling the Dems and Obama, “if you’re so smart, then be our guest and figure it out”.

    Oh I can believe that. Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense.

  • warehouse553

    The republicans will never allow a strong general election candidate to win their primary. Susan Collins got more votes in Maine than Obama. Olympia Snowe, the most popular moderate republican in the country, would crush Obama. Even Kay Bailey Hutichison could beat Obama but the GOP actually considers her too liberal.

    Maybe Lieberman could become a republican and challenge Obama. He’s a centrist moderate but he’s pro choice so its unlikely that he could win a Republican Primary.

    Jeb Bush is popular and smart but the name Bush is tarnished!

    I just don’t know! The only hope for this country is for Republicans to move to the center and I don’t believe they’ll do it.

  • Cubs in 09

    By CNNMoney.com staff
    Last Updated: November 18, 2008: 7:35 AM ET

    Deflation: At 8:30 a.m. ET, the Labor Department is scheduled to release its monthly Producer Price Index, which measures the price of goods at the wholesale level.

    Prices are expected to decrease by 1.8% in October, according to a consensus of economist projections from Briefing.com, after declining 0.4% in September.

  • LD

    PPI dropped 2.8% vs an expected drop of 1.8%. Big news….but even bigger IMO is the fact that the core PPI (which excludes food and energy) increased .4 vs an expected increase of .1

    I really think inflation is going to be a much bigger problem down the road…

  • I’m a Linda too

    AND, don’t you find it curious that Barry O-shit! is using the same talking points and phrases for an AUTO bailout?

    mmmhmm And you know how Barry likes those cute phrases, because that’s all he has. “Bridge loan”, “just not a bridge loan to no where”