So the idea the Dems are all pure and wonderful while hte GOP is the devil is complete baloney.

How is Hillary’s plan more radical, Obie is going to have universal health care for everyone provided by the government and will force private companies out of the health care provider business. How can you be more radical then that? Total government health care, no private funded health care. Again what could be further to the left?

As far as Bush’s spending you are just repeating liberal propaganda not founded in reality. Bush did spend, spend, spend but most of it on health care, education and welfare. The total he has spent on “new wars” is an average of about 100 billion a year. He has increased medicare/medicaid spending by 400 billion a year since taking over, spending on education has increased about 50 billion a year and welfare spending has increased about 100 billion a year, not to mention an increase of almost 20 billion for aids relief. So 570 billion annual increase on Education, Health Care and Poverty. I guess you dont consider education, health care, poverty and AIDS “useful spending”.

The problem is we can’t keep spending money we dont have it. Bush was wrong and fiscally liberal for doing what he did but Obie and you liberals just want to double down on Bush’s spending. Obie proposes a TRILLION dollars in additional spending when we are already running a 500 billion dollar deficit. The government provides health care for 20% of our population now (pretty crappy coverage by the way) and it costs the government 900 billion dollars. What’s the cost going to be when we cover 100% 1.5 trillion, 3 trillion, 4.5 trillion. Where’s the money going to come from? You wont even be able to get a loan for that amount.

This is not about Republican or Democrat it is about real numbers and spending trillions of dollars you dont have doesnt work and if you think increasing taxes on the wealthy is going to provide it you have NO historical perspective. Whether your upper tax rate is 90% or 28% government receipts stay (have stayed) constant.
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Your partisan ignorance is unbelievable. Bush’s greatest mistake was NOT following a CONSERVATIVE fiscal agenda. What provided Clinton his success and surpluses, was his restrain in spending on health care, welfare and education. He increased in those areas over 8 years 40.5% Bush increased 75%. If Bush would have imitated Clinton’s rate we would be running a surplus and have a healthier economy.

This is a biggee. The whole monetary system is effectively dead and all politicians want to do is hide the problem by throwing more money at it.

That alone…..

Well, anyway.

Frankly, even how he’s leaking this is smart. The biggest mistake McCain made? PR. He blew everyone away with Palin.

That’s a mistake, from a PR standpoint.

Never surprise the press. They ARE vengeful.

And so they were.

Republican lies about socialized medicine are just that LIES. Private insurance is much cheaper in the UK because the NHS is more than adequate for most people.

As for tax and spend Liberal. We have had 8 years of a spend spend spend President and where has that got us? It wouldn’t be half as bad Bush had spent it on something useful, but oh no, just some new wars. One of which his own Father said would be stupid.

Bushbot Republicans deserve prison for all they have done.

Which is still relevant.

But how about starting such a movement with REAL election reform? I think that’s an issue the overwhelming majority of Americans can agree on. Simple things like a national voter registry, so that people can’t register to vote in five states. Open primaries, true public funding. Take one issue at a time starting with the simple, doable, one person one vote concept.

The two parties will fight it, because they both game the system. They both talk about reform, but neither of them REALLY wants reform. But I honestly think a well thought out campaign with well spoken, level headed people leading the way could accomplish the one person one vote possibly by the next Presidential election. You’d have to start with petitions, NOT with Congress. No, it would have to be grassroots and overwhelming in nature. A movement that couldn’t be silenced, I truly think that is possible. People on both sides are fed up, even some obots are appalled by the ACORN mess.

Once you had that grassroots structure in place then you could use it as a spring board to bigger things. Again, this would take years and I don’t think trying to jump into the Presidential race from the starting gate is the way to go. That would almost by its nature end up with a cult of personality. I think the smarter way to go would be to find level headed moderates in purple districts and begin to ebb away at either of the two parties having a majority. Using grassroots volunteers and internet fund raising it’s possible you could take enough seats to force the two major parties to work together. That would force bipartisanship and begin the process of neutering the wing nuts in both parties.

Just my two cents, which isn’t worth much these days you know.

My one comforting thought about Obama winning is that he’s BOUND to dissapoint someone. He’s managed to convince too many people with too many completely different POV that he’s one of them. Centrist ex-GOP’ers, lefty Bushhatin’ DailyKos types, even a few evangelicals! lol.
I’m actually kind of thrilled at the moment that the group he seems to be dissapointing (at least right now) are the DailyKos crowd since 1) I disagree with them the most and 2) they’re the nastiest, smuggest, most hypocritical and frankly DUMBEST of all his supporters!
Yeah, I can be a vengeful bitch too. lol.

They are spitting like mad kitties over this! LOL*

Which just frankly made my morning walk a bit perkier!

I try to not be vengeful, but it doesn’t hurt to get a giggle once in awhile, eh?

It was the war based on a lie, and the Bush policies of expanding the executive branch, torture, etc., that initiated this anger and fueled it. Unfortunately for McCain/Palin, the last nail in the coffin was the collapse of the economic system due to excessive greed/corruption allowed by the Bush administration. Katrina in all of our lives.

Sheer and complete incompetence. Even I voted for McCain, knowing full well it wouldn’t matter. Blue state here. But it doesn’t slip past normal thinkers that he would have had a horrible time putting together an administration that wasn’t Bush-like.

So I understand the Independent swing to Dems.

I’m glad Leiberman got to keep his chairmanship. It was a finger in the eye of the MoveOn crowd screaming for blood.

I’m not upset about Hillary getting the SoS position. I just don’t see it as evidence that Obama is a great guy. To me, it’s just evidence he’s smart and strategic as hell. I’d like to see him take a few personally risky stances. Then I might moderate my position on him.
Right now I just see him as a cautious, careful, tremendously strategically smart person. There’s alot to admire in those traits and it may (crosses fingers) make him a decent manager of our country. But that doesn’t make him a leader I can believe in.

I’m very attached to Hillary. I want her in this SoS position in the worst way.

If I can’t have her as president, then I want her in a key spot.

That means…..I’m not pretending to be neutral.

BUT…I did watch closely, and she DID deliver on her stated promises. She promised to work her heart out, regardless of who was the nominee. She delivered.

I respect that. She lived up to my own expectations of her.

As far as cabinet picks: It’s all show to me. The man’s a technician who has a carefully managed image. Still waiting. Not HOPEful.

The way I operate as a centrist/Independent in the atmosphere of this “gentleman’s agreement” between the two major parties is to vote for the person, not the party. I also watch closely to see if that person hold to his or her stated principles. If not, I vote for the other, even if I don’t agree with him/her, in order to remove the prevaricator from office.

You can’t afford, as an Independent, to get too attached to any one politician.