John Kiriakou, Former CIA Officer Indicted

   Larry, having no idea of the degree
of torture referenced here, it is hard for me (as thought it maters) to have
any feeling to his justification to do what he did. But when it comes to controlled
water boarding, I find it hard to be self-riotous about that when as a nation
we so regularly send such implements of destruction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArQKhxbNLo&feature=fvst

into primitive structures
and having no idea (maybe those in charge do) of the consequences but it isn’t
on FOX and it does not even seem to get the anti-torture Hollywood people interested. Having spent
much time working in the Univ. of Michigan Regional Burn Unit, what is shown below is endless
torture  of an unimaginable quantity until death even in a modern burn unit. Logic tells me “collateral damage”
is not a rare event.

Photo taken from “Hijacking Catrstrophe 9/11, Fear & the Selling of American Empire”

http://www.amazon.com/Hijacking-Catastrophe-Selling-American-Empire/dp/B000W27EXW/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1327467088&sr=1-1-spell

Innocence hardly ever trumps politics.

Looks like another successful Obama special forces operation in Somalia last night. I am starting to lose count of these successful ballsy raids signed-off on by Obama. How many of these did Bush do? Obama seems to be having much more success with these surgical actions as opposed to the big military actions of Bush. Obama’s priorities and strategy is 100% right, as opposed to the previous Commander and Chief who had it all wrong. As much as you NQ partisans want to tear down the President, you cannot argue with success.

Understanding some actions while not excusing them is what we, if we are honorable people, must do when good people do the wrong things for the right reasons.

An honorable government would make it easier for those who need to do the right thing. An honorable government would want us to do the right thing.

But the word honorable, an outdated and not much respected word these days, seldom, if ever, comes into play in any government action. The word that comes to mind is expedient. We should be ashamed of that.

Normally, I just ignore you.  You do not know what you are writing about.  Obama is using the Special Ops system that Bush put in place.  The tactics and strategy were developed by General Stan McChrystal, who, if you recall, Obama fired.  The base this operation was run from was set up under Bush.  What you should be happy about is that Obama did not drag his feet on this like he did on the op to take out Bin Laden.

Normally, I just ignore you.  You do not know what you are writing about.  Obama is using the Special Ops system that Bush put in place.  The tactics and strategy were developed by General Stan McChrystal, who, if you recall, Obama fired.  The base this operation was run from was set up under Bush.  What you should be happy about is that Obama did not drag his feet on this like he did on the op to take out Bin Laden.

Always the double standard. Gets old.

I suppose by your logic we should thank FDR for this successful raid as FDR first created the Navy Seals in 1942.

After the horrible 9/11 attacks, I suppose it was hard for public opinion to become outraged about waterboarding since we either witnessed or learned of beheadings of not only American soldiers but also a WSJ reporter. 

I’ll always wonder if it ever pays to engage with a far-flung enemy who is so culturally different.  It never seems to work out.

You are the one devoid of logic and intelligence.  SEALS are not the same as UDT.  UDTs aka Underwater Demolition Teams were formed in 1943.  SEALS were organized starting in 1961.  They drew upon UDT but a UDT body does not mean the person was a SEAL.  Jesse Ventura is a case in point.  He was UDT but not a SEAL.

Anyway, the unit now credited for carrying this out was actually set up under Reagan.  But the tactics and strategy employed in this op were put in place by Stan McChrystal.  Unlike you I’ve only worked with these guys for 17 years.

Thanks Larry for your view on this.

Larry, there are three options when being questioned by the FBI, lie like a rug, claim you don’t recall, or STFU and demand a lawyer. The sooner you get a suite involved, the better the chance of avoiding a visit to club Fed.

why did he give the press the agent’s  e-mail address and home telephone number?. He had to know that was wrong and could get the agent killed.
I can understand whistle blowing if you see something wrong and have gone to the proper people and nothing is fixed. But to put another agent in harm’s way is just wrong.

It is a sad state of affairs, isn’t it?  It’s true all over the country from small-town politics all the way to the federal level of government.  If you have friends in power or if you hold a position of power, the law often doesn’t apply to you.

LOL–Now I’m picturing little PA in his/her/its mommie’s basement googling madly trying to find a comeback.

I seem to recall that the gist of John’s interview with ABC News back in 2007 or 2008 was that the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah worked in very short order, i.e., in less than a minute..  Of course, John was never present during any of Abu Zubaydah’s waterboardings, so his assessments were based on second hand information, with the related credibility issues.  John didn’t seem particularly outraged about enhanced interrogation techniques during his ABC interview, particularly when he was the darling of right wing supporters of said techniques during the Bush administration. 
Did John change his story after Obama’s election and the publishing and marketing of his book (which I haven’t read yet)?  Just the title, “The Reluctant Spy…,” seems a bit pretentious.  John was hardly a ”reluctant” CIA officer when I knew him in the early 1990s, although I guess he could’ve become ”reluctant” during the last couple of his 14 years with CIA during post-9/11 activities.
At any rate, I guess that he has now discovered that intelligence officers–current, former and retired–generally cannot trust journalist to act in our interests when we provide them with leads.  Journalists will always sacrifice intelligence officer sources for their own interests, the publishing of an interesting story.

Good luck, John.

Let’s not let historical fact get in the way of the worship of Our Lord Obama, Larry.

I think you get the point.

So if you are not willing to give Obama any credit for anything the military or the Seals do then fine (even though the buck stops with him and he has to sign-off on these missions) and give it to Bush (as you claim above) then do not give Obama credit for the debt and deficit either or high unemployment either. Be consistent. It was his predecessor. 

The debt and deficit were put in place by Bush. Obama policies have added very little to the deficit and debt. The Bush recession is almost entirely responsible for the deficit and debt.

By the way, the Seals themselves track their origin all the way back to UDTs and 1942.

http://www.sealswcc.com/navy-seals-history.aspx

PA wrote: “The debt and deficit were put in place by Bush. Obama policies have added very little to the deficit and debt. The Bush recession is almost entirely responsible for the deficit and debt.”

I guess the question is:  Why haven’t Obama’s policies reversed the Bush policies of deficit and debt like Obama promised when he was running for President?  And don’t throw a Republican House of Representatives at us; for the first twelve months of his Presidency, Mr. Obama’s party controlled two thirds of the Senate and had a majority in the House.  For the first two years of his Presidency, Mr. Obama and his party had a majority in the Senate and a majority in the House.  At least in those first twelve months, Mr. Obama and his party could’ve done anything with regard to economic policy.  Whatever they did, it did not reduce the Bush debt and deficit, as you have said.

By the way, when Mr. Obama and his party controlled both the Senate and the House unilaterally during the first twelve months of his Presidency, why didn’t he close Guantanamo as he promised?  One law passing both the Senate and the House and signed by the President during this period  would’ve done it.

Heather Kiriakou, John’s wife has been forced to resign according to NewsMax. I am surprised they quickly know her as a “top analyst” specializing in Iran.

they google who knew.   lol

they google who knew.   lol

they google who knew.   lol

thanks for the article Larry.

thanks for the article Larry.

they google who knew.   lol

they google who knew.   lol

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wife-of-alleged-cia-leaker-resigns-from-agency/2012/01/24/gIQAxKFlOQ_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Very interesting couple indeed.
John Kiriakou is a strange bird. I’m still trying to figure out his personal angle. His track from Dec 2007 till now in the media has been less than consistent. He did represent his original view as the reluctant advocate of waterboarding and EITs. But, then returns in 2009 to reject his view.

We then clearly learn the difference between his experience and that of Ali Soufan who went to Thailand while Kiriakou went to Langley. If he’s blowing the whistle from Langley view of things, then maybe it simply bugged him all this time that 1.) Abu Zubaydah didn’t work for Al Qaida, 2.) Soufan and Gaudin’s methods were working while Martinez, Jessen, and Mitchell’s were not, and 3.) the shit storm ensued against torture.

So what we have here is…silencing of the voice that validated what we suspected and no charges for Martinez, Jessen, Mitchell, et, al. If the telling about something like this was a crime, what was the event behind it? It wasn’t national security in the end, it was a confession chamber. Kiriakou probably did violate IIPA and we can expect he won’t be given the same courtesy as Karl Rove (Rove was never arrested, Fleischer was never arrested, Armitage was never arrested).

It is also interesting to see the assignment of Pat Fitzgerald, no surprise because this would be his beat, but lets see how this plays out and see if we get a different treatment since Kiriakou doesn’t have VP Cheney looming in the background in his corner.

My friend Jason Leopold did an interview with him and found that he was in the office when the whole Libby showdown over Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson took place in Langley. He was apparently the note taker. I’m curious your view on that revelation, Larry. It is a small world, after all.

Last, for those who doubt, waterboarding and eits, do not render intel that you can count on. Abu Zubaydah is still remains ‘uncharged’ because we don’t have “number 3″, he isn’t al qaida, he didn’t participate in 9/11 or against U.S. interests, and…The Government damn well knows that now…but didn’t…when it wanted him to confess to being who they wanted him to be. Don’t get me wrong, he’s no fucking boyscout. He was the travel agent for Khalden camp, but his story consistently backs up the notion that his primary captor might better be Russia, since that is who he considered a target of interest as a ‘fighter’. His sole focus in his CSRT is Chechnya and he was very wise to point out that when Al Qaida wanted to take over Khalden camp, he saw this was going to be leading to a “war race” which the review board ignorantly interpreted as the american idiot, “race war” when he meant a war escalation. He basically thought a fight between Al Qaida and US would bring the US to the region and defeat his chances to challenge Russia in Chechnya.

Yet..in Sept 2006, George Idiota Arbusto said he had caught the “Number 3″ and from there…they have been trying to sell that shitty story for years. If waterboarding works, why do it 83 times? and that is only one of the things they did to this guy. Sorry, we’re fucking better than that. It is an insult to the real professionals to have sent in Jessen and Mitchell who didn’t know what the hell they were talking about. And I don’t much about Deuce Martinez, but from what has been gleaned, he was a great data guy, amazing was even used…but how that becomes a Gator…wtf? He was not a gator, but a data analyst. The whole thing was a clusterfuck and nobody has come clean about it. Kiriakou…is the patsy of the day and now his wife has to leave too. Maybe she was pretty good at her job…we’ll never know.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wife-of-alleged-cia-leaker-resigns-from-agency/2012/01/24/gIQAxKFlOQ_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Very interesting couple indeed.
John Kiriakou is a strange bird. I’m still trying to figure out his personal angle. His track from Dec 2007 till now in the media has been less than consistent. He did represent his original view as the reluctant advocate of waterboarding and EITs. But, then returns in 2009 to reject his view.

We then clearly learn the difference between his experience and that of Ali Soufan who went to Thailand while Kiriakou went to Langley. If he’s blowing the whistle from Langley view of things, then maybe it simply bugged him all this time that 1.) Abu Zubaydah didn’t work for Al Qaida, 2.) Soufan and Gaudin’s methods were working while Martinez, Jessen, and Mitchell’s were not, and 3.) the shit storm ensued against torture.

So what we have here is…silencing of the voice that validated what we suspected and no charges for Martinez, Jessen, Mitchell, et, al. If the telling about something like this was a crime, what was the event behind it? It wasn’t national security in the end, it was a confession chamber. Kiriakou probably did violate IIPA and we can expect he won’t be given the same courtesy as Karl Rove (Rove was never arrested, Fleischer was never arrested, Armitage was never arrested).

It is also interesting to see the assignment of Pat Fitzgerald, no surprise because this would be his beat, but lets see how this plays out and see if we get a different treatment since Kiriakou doesn’t have VP Cheney looming in the background in his corner.

My friend Jason Leopold did an interview with him and found that he was in the office when the whole Libby showdown over Valerie Plame and Joseph Wilson took place in Langley. He was apparently the note taker. I’m curious your view on that revelation, Larry. It is a small world, after all.

Last, for those who doubt, waterboarding and eits, do not render intel that you can count on. Abu Zubaydah is still remains ‘uncharged’ because we don’t have “number 3″, he isn’t al qaida, he didn’t participate in 9/11 or against U.S. interests, and…The Government damn well knows that now…but didn’t…when it wanted him to confess to being who they wanted him to be. Don’t get me wrong, he’s no fucking boyscout. He was the travel agent for Khalden camp, but his story consistently backs up the notion that his primary captor might better be Russia, since that is who he considered a target of interest as a ‘fighter’. His sole focus in his CSRT is Chechnya and he was very wise to point out that when Al Qaida wanted to take over Khalden camp, he saw this was going to be leading to a “war race” which the review board ignorantly interpreted as the american idiot, “race war” when he meant a war escalation. He basically thought a fight between Al Qaida and US would bring the US to the region and defeat his chances to challenge Russia in Chechnya.

Yet..in Sept 2006, George Idiota Arbusto said he had caught the “Number 3″ and from there…they have been trying to sell that shitty story for years. If waterboarding works, why do it 83 times? and that is only one of the things they did to this guy. Sorry, we’re fucking better than that. It is an insult to the real professionals to have sent in Jessen and Mitchell who didn’t know what the hell they were talking about. And I don’t much about Deuce Martinez, but from what has been gleaned, he was a great data guy, amazing was even used…but how that becomes a Gator…wtf? He was not a gator, but a data analyst. The whole thing was a clusterfuck and nobody has come clean about it. Kiriakou…is the patsy of the day and now his wife has to leave too. Maybe she was pretty good at her job…we’ll never know.

The “reluctance” seems to be in context of ‘torture’. His narrative questions the actions of the CIA leaders who authorized EITs. Juxtapose that with Mueller’s demand that FBI be withdrawn. Soufan left first, Gaudin left weeks later.

Hey mr Johnson I am sorry to be naive about this but why did Liby take the fall and not Richard Armitage re: Plame leak?
And from your article it sounds as though you think it was a much broader ensemble where does that come from ?

I understand the sentiment, but I don’t know if Tom Delay, Duke Cunningham, fmr Judge Sam Kent, Lewis Libby, Sandy Berger, etc would agree. But I’m sure Cheney would love to back you up on that. Now you can go to Haditha, kill 24 people and simply get a slap on the wrist, if you do it in the right context.

why? so they could contact Deuce Martinez himself and ask, “did you waterboard KSM or Abu Zubaydah? Did you oversee it?”

Just like CIA, journalists live by information and sourcing. Phone numbers, contacts, you name the data related to the story and we want it. It doesn’t mean we are going to go harm an agent. But Scott Shane (Journalist B) speaks to Kirakou and gets Deuce Martinez (Officer B)’s information, he’s getting it to find the closest source to the story. Kiriakou wasn’t in Thailand, Martinez was.

And, like CIA, we don’t often reveal our sources and methods for getting information. Even in my office, if someone broke into my computer, the best they’d get is some emails, because I keep phone numbers in an undisclosed location. I have activist friends who might come in my office and use the computer, I wouldn’t want them calling Larry, now would I?

Scott Shane then spoke with John Sifton who works with the detainee’s lawyers as an investigator. Sifton too has reason to want to contact Martinez for his own investigation.

That…is how we found out about Kiriakou. Had he never confirmed, this wouldn’t have occurred. Journalists too know how to ask questions to get confirmations even in denials. Ask a question a few different ways and you WILL learn something, most often.

Yeah, I have to join here for a second, PA. Sorry, but you’re fucking trolling. While I disagree with many of the ideological views around NQ these days, I don’t need to come here and troll the damn place. LJ and friends don’t need you to come here and play the “oh look what Obama did today that Bush didn’t do”. LJ already pointed out what you’re saying about Bush before Obama ever became a glint in your myopic eyes.

t does nothing to advance your position. I want Bush, Cheney, and his lot locked up asap. LJ knows that. But what is also true, is ..Obama is getting to scoop the cream off the top of a machine that was developed Before he got there, and I won’t give Bush credit, but I will give the forces credit and the career service people who don’t give a shit who is Commander when it comes to working together to get shit done. They were there under Bush, under Clinton, under Bush, and some under Reagan.

Don’t troll NQ, it makes you look pathetic. If you want to challenge the paradigm here, do it honorably. Might not look easy, but it might be worth your time to overcome this lazy driveby off topic childish shit.

Armitage told investigators about his conversation, Libby lied endlessly about his. That is why Libby got charged. Why they didn’t charge Armitage?….best I can guess is they determined he hadn’t intentionally meant to leak anything to Woodward. They improperly assumed he also has no ax to grind (not saying he does…but no proof he doesn’t). Libby also had the full backing of the fog machine of VP Cheney. Rove narrowly avoided prosecution after attempting to lie to them but practically ran to them to say, “well, I did have this conversation”.

Truth is, Armitage too would have been a fall guy if he’d been nailed. The real full court press is missing from your sentence model. It doesn’t show Ari Fleischer and guys talking to Mark Cooper, John Donovan, or the like. But the biggest leak really was Libby to Judith Miller. Aspen turning, indeed.

Good points on the Chechnya focus.  Sometimes our inability to deal with such subtleties, it one could call them that, has me shaking my head.  It reminds me of my fellow Marines teaching local PSP militiamen how to use the LAAWs that the  Israelis had left behind after their raid on the Bain Militaire in late 1983.  When I pointed out that there was nothing preventing said militiamen from turning the LAAWs back on them that evening, they looked at me in amazement: How could these smiling, eager to learn Lebanese youths shoot at the very guys who so obligingly had taught them how to use the American-made ordnance that the Israelis had left behind after shooting the shit out of their neighborhood?  They found out how for about a week  of nights after the tutorial.    

thank you for your explanation.

I fairness, I should read John’s book.  Soufan’s book was top notch, as is Soufan, himself.  I once did a radio show where I said that I understood the bureaucratic “logic” behind using Mitchell Jessen’s techniques, even though I didn’t agree with the techniques.  If we had more Ali Soufans, we probably wouldn’t have used Mitchell Jessen.  I am reasonably familiar with how Mitchell Jessen & Associates came to be used by the Agency, and have read Jessen’s notes on the development of enhanced interrogation techniques.  If the Agency ever decided to do Harvard case study-like post mortems so as to learn from our mistakes, Mitchell Jessen would be one of my recommendations.

You know Mr. Johnson I remember the olden days.  The days when Obama supporters decried GWB as a war mongering murderer.  The days when pre-emptive  strikes were “war crimes”.

Ah, those golden days when starting a war with a country or countries that neither threatened us or declared war on us were  ”those evil neocons” looking for innocents to kill.

Now that Obama is “taking out” people it’s not only good it’s moral.

Obama supporters for war and killing. Who knew?  

You know Mr. Johnson I remember the olden days.  The days when Obama supporters decried GWB as a war mongering murderer.  The days when pre-emptive  strikes were “war crimes”.

Ah, those golden days when starting a war with a country or countries that neither threatened us or declared war on us were  ”those evil neocons” looking for innocents to kill.

Now that Obama is “taking out” people it’s not only good it’s moral.

Obama supporters for war and killing. Who knew?  

You know Mr. Johnson I remember the olden days.  The days when Obama supporters decried GWB as a war mongering murderer.  The days when pre-emptive  strikes were “war crimes”.

Ah, those golden days when starting a war with a country or countries that neither threatened us or declared war on us were  ”those evil neocons” looking for innocents to kill.

Now that Obama is “taking out” people it’s not only good it’s moral.

Obama supporters for war and killing. Who knew?  

Mr. Johnson wants to run a website and put himself out there and also have a public forum then NQ has to be willing to accept that some people will disagree with the standard bashing Obama on everything commentary on NQ. Although censorship is pretty big around here. 

Why is it that whenever someone has a different point of view they are all of a sudden a troll?

You parade around with your “Truthtelling007″ name, but you are perfectly happy to call someone a troll because you disagree with them.

I will say again. Always the double standard in the NQ echo chamber.

You sound like the childish one with your personal insults.

There is a pretty big difference between preemptive war on a nation and rescuing hostages held by Somali pirates. Sorry you do not see the difference.

I’m a vet. I think I know the difference.  But I still remember the days when pirates or no pirates, terrorists or not terrorists GWB was a war mongering murderer.  Or did I imagine all of those anti-war rallies?

Pirates? Hell, har,  har, har me mateys.

Are you doing your research? It appears not or not very good reasearch.

“guess the question is:  Why haven’t Obama’s policies reversed the Bush policies of deficit and debt like Obama promised when he was running for President?”

I think you need a better understanding the fiscal situation of the U.S. Obama inherited a huge recession. The recession pushed the deficit and debt much higher, largely because of the massive decline in tax revenue.

There was no way to reverse that debt and deficit that took Bush 8 years to run-up while attempting to get the economy growing again and in a very short 3 years. However, if you check the stats the deficit is actually falling both in real terms and as a percentage of GDP.

 ”Mr. Obama and his party could’ve done anything with regard to economic policy.”

I think they did considerable amount to get the economy growing and reverse the jobs losses. They did the largest stimulus in history, saved the auto sector, stabilized financial markets with TARP, etc.

There was a major reversal in the economy and financial markets because of these actions.

The unprecedent use or threat of use of the filibuster in the Senate by the GOP made it next to impossible to get much done with the party of “NO” and obstruction blocking the way.

I think you need to go back and re-read the history of the attempted closing of Guantanamo. Obama was blocked, largely by the GOP, from transfering those prisoners to U.S. penitentiaries.

I’m a vet. I think I know the difference.  But I still remember the days when pirates or no pirates, terrorists or not terrorists GWB was a war mongering murderer.  Or did I imagine all of those anti-war rallies?

Pirates? Hell, har,  har, har me mateys.

Exactly. I’m often in awe of some amazing people I know who walk around the same world I live in but without many of the predrawn conclusions. They are able to assess many different paradigms that overlap all at once with clear distinction. It is necessary to see these things, seems to me, if you’re doing intel work.

you’re more than welcome. It happens to be my ‘beat’. lol

Please don’t think I was approving of the fact that often if you have power the law does not apply.  I’m just saying that i am becoming very cynical, as I see this sort of thing where a person in power should be punished severely for something, but a lesser person is the one to take the fall.

You are trolling. I’ll call you a troll for that very reason. This post was about John Kiriakou, not about Obama v Bush.

If you’re going to interrupt the tread with a non-sequitur, then yes, I’m going to step up and call you a troll. Grow up, bud, you have a life in front of you. Use it.

You didn’t come here with a different view of John Kiriakou, you interrupted a thread.

“parade around”…horseshit. My ass is comfortably in my seat typing. Grow up.

PA,  we can give your “opinions” by ourselves since it is always SO VERY OBVIOUS what you are going to say.  It’s insulting to many here if you are thinking we don’t know enough to read and understand the Obama point of view about every topic that comes up in a post on this site. 

TruthTelling007 is right about the fact that most all who comment here think you are pathetic in that regard.

and by the way PA, your notion that this is an “echo chamber” is evidence of your trolling. You think you don’t belong and that this site and can’t find your own voice. That isn’t sign of “censorship”

And sorry, I know the back end of this site, thank you and you aren’t being censored, jackass. You aren’t being taken seriously. If you were being censored, I wouldn’t be able to respond to your stupid shit, now would I?

LJ and I are on very different planets when it comes to some political questions, but sorry, he does not censor and you’re a fucking idiot if you think he does.

If this is all you have to offer the conversation, then you are a fucking idiot troll and I have zero compunction about calling you that. Childish is going to a blog you don’t feel comfortable at and intentionally interrupting a thread with unrelated horseshit. PA, you are out of your league here bud. Stop while you have your breathe because I can do this all fucking day long. I will defend this blog’s image with the truth. The truth is NQ has for a long long time sought to keep even pieces of shit like you in the mix and you can’t respect it. I’m more than glad to give them witness at this time.

oh, same here, I understand fully!

oh, same here, I understand fully!

It has been a very shitty excuse to say, “Obama was blocked” because some chickenshit House members threatened to vote against funding it. (purse attack). But really? give me the fucking microphone and I’ll show how those pathetic members were insulting our Supermax at same time as insulting our military, law enforcement etc. That is where this President and his followers suck. They can’t play the very game they signed up for. GOP blows a bunch of bullshit out its ass and the DNC can’t convert that to their advantage because they are filled with cowards who are still asking  themselves if they are tough enough of terror. I’m not guessing either, I’ve talked with many Dem Reps and they do not want to appear soft on terrorism. It is the most pathetic display of spinelessness out there. Funny how GWB can shove Gitmo down the throats of Americans but Obama can’t remove it because Congress blah blah blah.
Sorry, not buying the pathetic excuses. He should confront them the same way many GOP have confronted their own about Gitmo (aka it is a magnet for terrorism and an insult to our justice system. Frankly I think the only person now who belongs in Gitmo is Lindsey Graham. KSM and others should be put on trial and get this over with. Cowards are running the to p. It is a damn shame too because they have a lot of courageous people underneath them.

The thread below has a comment from PA regarding Gitmo but the thread is packed there…

RE: Gitmo closure: It has been a very shitty excuse to say, “Obama was blocked” because some chickenshit House members threatened to vote against funding it. (purse attack). Yes, they did threaten to cut funding. But really? give me the fucking microphone and I’ll show how those pathetic members were insulting our Supermax at same time as insulting our military, law enforcement etc. That is where this President and his followers suck. How did they respond? They moved on to another topic, health care. SO much for that promise. Really pushed hard for that one, didn’t he.

They can’t play the very game they signed up for. GOP blows a bunch of bullshit out its ass and the DNC can’t convert that to their advantage because they are filled with cowards who are still asking  themselves if they are tough enough of terror. I’m not guessing either, I’ve talked with many Dem Reps and they do not want to appear soft on terrorism. It is the most pathetic display of spinelessness out there. Funny how GWB can shove Gitmo down the throats of Americans but Obama can’t remove it because Congress blah blah blah.
Sorry, not buying the pathetic excuses. He should confront them the same way many GOP have confronted their own about Gitmo (aka it is a magnet for terrorism and an insult to our justice system. Frankly I think the only person now who belongs in Gitmo is Lindsey Graham. KSM and others should be put on trial and get this over with. Cowards are running the top, WH and Congress. It is a damn shame too because they have a lot of courageous people underneath them.

Don’t forget that is is under Obama’s DOJ that we are seeing an increase in attacks on journalists, defense lawyers for gitmo detainees, whistleblowers, deportations, pot busts, you name it. DOJ is busier in some categories that you’d have thought were higher under Bush, but nope…the numbers don’t lie.

One thing I’ve abhorred in the GOP for the past 12 years was the chickenhawk lose your lunch bullshit that they lay down over terrorism. The boogeyman is always a 12ft firebreathing monster that turns out to be a lump of shit turd like KSM and yet the American people are being sold big monsters because its good for business. But worse than that are the Spineless DNC who play the game too but much worse because they simultaneously scream for accountability. Obama made some promises for change, I’m just really glad I didn’t fall for that shit and vote for him.

Truthtelling007,

How many years have you been coming to this site? Although Mr. Johnson seems to be currently tolerating my decenting view, I can tell you that for years NQ simply banned any decenting comment. In fact, it is your personal attacks that should be banned.

You sound a bit insane with your comments. Sounds like your head is going to explode. You have a lot of anger.

You do not sound like you know the difference. So you are going to compare a rescue mission to a massive 10 year war in Iraq. One clearly is war mongering and the other clearly is not.

You make some good points, but seems a bit lame to blame Obama for Gitmo when it was not he who created it and is only trying to clean up the mess of Republicans. If only it was so easy to close Gitmo as you suggest, given the politics that was created around closing it by the Republicans. Blame the GOP for it no being closed today, if closing it is so important to you.

I think Democrats have proven over the years that they are actually much tougher on terror than the Republicans. Bush and the Republicans had no interest in fighting terror, but only in attacking Iraq. They had no strategy for where the terrorist attacks for 9-11 actually originated and wasted years in Pakistan. Bush had all but given up on finding Bin Laden, going so far as telling America that Bin Laden was not that important and in disbanding the task force that was looking for him.

It was the Dems and Obama that refocused the efforts on actually fighting terrorism. And their success record has been very very good.

“I’ll call you a troll for that very reason. This post was about John Kiriakou, not about Obama v Bush.”

Cry me a river. I suggest you read all the commentary sections. The comments diverge into different streams or topics all the time.

”
but seems a bit lame to blame Obama for Gitmo ”
Do you have a comprehension problem?
I didn’t blame Obama for Gitmo, where did you get that garbage. I’m calling him out for claiming he’d close it then the lame excuses for why he dropped that ball. Did he think they’d say ok when he promised?

I never said anything about easy, I said he could have fought for it, but he didn’t. Don’t insert words into others comments, that might be messing you up.

I blame them both, but you made excuses for one. Don’t play move the goal posts on me. You defended Obama by blaming GOP.

”
I think Democrats have proven over the years that they are actually much tougher on terror than the Republicans.”
These are the same Democrats that participated in CIA torture discussions in the House, who signed the Iraq Authorization, who signed the patriot act…yes, “tougher on terror”…horseshit. They were cowards to their own country. You need to listen to some of these jackasses over the last few years saying they don’t to appear soft on terrorism. This is moral corruption.

“It was the Dems and Obama that refocused the efforts on actually fighting terrorism. And their success record has been very very good.”

More horseshit. While there have been successes under the Obama admin, trying to claim that a party gave this focus is utter nonsense. These focused operations are not occurring in the partisan world you are living in, bud.

I suggest you find out who the fuck I am around here before you tell me how NQ runs, bud. You’re pathetic.

Why don’t you go ahead and cry to LJ about me. I’m sure you’ll get far. If you want to know how long I’ve been hear, read the archives.

How many rescue missions have you planned or been tapped for?  Tell me all about it. I’m not excusing the Somali pirates. But the irony is amazing.

I tell ya what.  Many in my family are or have been military. We talk to one another.  What  would we know? You’ve got the answers and I’m sure you were in the thick of the rescue.  Tell us what you did.  Or not.  I’m done with you.  

Tell you what. Ask my husband (non-military) what I did when I said I could disable him.  He thought I was joking  until I did it.

I love folks like you.  I don’t tell surgeons about how they should  do  surgery.  I don’t tell CPAs how to do accounting.
I don’t tell Rev Amy what being a minister is like. . I don’t tell the people that run businesses that post on this site how to run a business.  I  LMAO when folks try to tell Mr. Johnson how the  CIA operates. It’s always a thing of beauty.

Yet you assume, and you know what they say about assuming, that I know nothing about hostage operations.  Think again.

If he spilled the beans,  send the asshole to jail for treason.
Period.

So your one big complaint, as is Mr. Johnson’s, is that Obama did not fight hard enough to close Gitmo. A massive global economic collapse, an Arab spring, two huge wars, etc. and all you got to complain about is that Obama did not fight hard enough to close Gitmo, something he did not create in the first place. The reality is the Republicans have fought hard to prevent Obama from doing anything, including closing Gitmo. I think you outrage is mis-focused.

I am not sure what ”participating” in torture discussion has to do with being tough on terrorism. But, since you mention it.
 
If only it was so black and white. It was pretty clear that in the very few meetings where there was the possibility of enhanced interrogation techniques being discussed the Bush Adminstration seemed to whitewash over what they were actually doing or be as opague as possible and resisted any request for information or any oversight.

Why did the CIA not brief the entire intelligence committees and not just a select few? It makes perfect sense that Bush wanted to hide from not only to the world but from the Democrats exactly what he had signed-off on. So far there has been no proof that has come out that suggests Pelosi is not telling the truth when she says waterboarding was not discussed. Porter Goss even said that in those briefings waterboarding was not discussed. Torture or waterboarding had even started well before there was any briefings. Bob Graham’s attempt to bring oversight over the torture programs was rebuffed and Jane Harman, Democrat, did reject the programs and was rebuffed by the Bush Adminstration and CIA.

I think you need to check the record. The Democrats (only 61% of them) did not actually vote for war, but gave the President the authorize for it if he needed it. Very different.  The Iraq Resolution was not even a direct call for war.

“The resolution “supported” and “encouraged” diplomatic efforts by President George W. Bush to “strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq” and “obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion, and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.”

” While there have been successes under the Obama admin, trying to claim that a party gave this focus is utter nonsense. These focused operations are not occurring in the partisan world you are living in, bud.”

Not sure what alternative reality you live in, but clearly Obama put the focus back on fighting the actual terrorists and their supporters who were responsible for 9-11. All those years of wasted resources and focus on Iraq has come to an end.

You are the one doing the crying. I make a simple comment and you go nuts. And nuts for no good reason. You are just another with Obama Derangement Syndrome on here.

You must be an important person on an important and influencial website. If you actually had some real discussion on this website instead of all the Obama trashing, backslapping and juvenile pesonal insults it would be a much more interesting and attractive website.  

So, if I understand you correctly, you’re saying that even though Mr. Obama and his party held two thrids of the Senate and a majority of the House, the Republicans were still clever enough to block him in what he wanted to do?  If that is the case, why should I re-elect him?  If you aren’t capable enough as a President to achieve your objectives when your own party unilaterally controls both houses of Congress,  how will you ever get anything done in a less favorable situation?  What is Obama’s plan to get things done when his party doesn’t control both houses of Congress?

It’s OK, Truth, PA has been exposed for an “Obama can do no wrong” troll.  After praising me for having the same research sources as he has and calling me different then other NQ readers, he then attempts to defend Obama’s lack of performance in office by claiming either that the Republican minorities in the Senate and House cleverly outwitted Obama and the respective overwhelming Democratic majorities or, alternatively, that the problems that Bush created were too difficult for Obama to solve in a single term.  He seems to want to dismiss the fact that Mr. Obama himself said that if he couldn’t get the economy turned around in three years that he would be  a one term President.  Obama missed the deadline that he himself set.
Of course, when PA presents his case, he doesn’t present any facts, just “you need to go reread history.”  Well, I have read it, several times, apparently from some of the same sources as PA. and have reached different conclusions.  In PA’s eyes, that makes me a hopeless fool.  But wait, didn’t he prevously praise the balance of my sources and say that I was different from other NQ readers?  I guess that makes PA intolerant of those with opinons different than his own.  What a horrible fate in the land of the free.
By the way, having actually drafted Federal legislation that passed both houses of Congress and was signed into law, I tend to do my research on Federal legislation on Thomas.  A tough slog, sometimes, but Thomas records every burp and behind scratch in the progress of Federal legislation.

Your buddy McChrystal may deserve some credit, but so does Obama. He is setting the right priorities, including getting rid of McChyrstal and regaining some civilian control.

Special operations have been on the rise under President Obama:

Despite what the Republicans presidential candidates tell you, special operations forces have seen quite the spike in personnel and budget in the years since Obama took office; the raid in Somalia is just the most recent well-publicized example.

PolitiFact lays out the buildup in US special ops:
The numbers of personnel authorized for [the United States Special Operations Command] have increased from 55,890 in fiscal year 2009 to 63,779 for fiscal year 2012, according to the Pentagon. Meanwhile, the budget has increased from $8.9 billion to $10.5 billion over the same period.”If you look at the most recent budget request, it shows that the special operations budget is projected to continue increasing through fiscal year 2016,” said Todd Harrison, a fellow with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. “It dips a bit in fiscal 2011 due to the war funding beginning to come down, but it is projected to continue growing even without war funding in future years.”http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/136/increase-special-operations-forces-and-civil-affai/

What I find interesting here is that Kiriakou besides being charged under the Espionage Act. He is also being charged under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Which I believe has been used only one since its enactment…

Though he is number six to be charged with leaking classed materials under the Obama Administration. Is this to stop leaks or suppress whistle blowers as well?

What I find interesting here is that Kiriakou besides being charged under the Espionage Act. He is also being charged under the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Which I believe has been used only one since its enactment…

Though he is number six to be charged with leaking classed materials under the Obama Administration. Is this to stop leaks or suppress whistle blowers as well?

Lets not rush to judgement….

Lets not rush to judgement….

it wouldn’t be treason anyway…

that comment alone just showed how stupid you are. You actually don’t know my opinion of Obama. You made that up and treated it like real, like the rest of your opinions.

actually proves what sort of fucking troll you are. If you actually came to read, which is why I came…you’d see I offered facts related to the article to other readers. you…suck up fucking oxygen.

Care to tell me who Officer C and Journalist C is, genius?

actually proves what sort of fucking troll you are. If you actually came to read, which is why I came…you’d see I offered facts related to the article to other readers. you…suck up fucking oxygen.

Care to tell me who Officer C and Journalist C is, genius?

ezzactly. There are areas where NQ and I are on completely different planets. NQ has posts and comments that attack about 75-80% of my friends and closest views. But this is NQ, not my blog. I want to let the locals say what they have to say and one day here and there, I might come in and write a great challenge to the anti-occupy voices or the pro-tea voices or whoever. Until I have the focus to do that in a respectful manner, anything else would be trolling for bullshit. I expect more for this place than what PA does.

I came to this thread yesterday because I have been intimately following Kiriakou’s story and the cannon of info that it is part of. It doesn’t take but a second to recognize a turd like PA as just a shitty little troll who can’t recognize subtlety, doesn’t actually read what you write in the first place, and then lumps everyone in together.

Example: Obama Derangement Syndrome
WRONG:
I don’t tend to want to discuss Obama and such here but, truth is, I like the guy. I love when he gets a good one over on GOP for the better of us all. But same coin has my knowledge that he’s broken promises, that he puts on airs, that he betrays people, that he essentially is the President I said he’d be. I Did Not Vote For Him. I didn’t vote for him because I could see the need to please all over him. I love that about him to be honest, but makes for a bad leader.

I had a good talk with a friend about Obama during the election a couple years back she was bashing Clinton blindly while praising the new black president we’d have, Obama. She was upset with me for not being so enthusiastic for him and started getting sour.
She turned it into “why don’t you like him?”

I asked, “Do you like me?”"Yes”"and how long have you known me?”, I continued.”about 15 years, right?”"and if I ran for President against Clinton right now would I make a good President?”"well, wasn’t thinking about it but maybe not compared to Clinton.”"but you like me though.”"of course!”This game of “you hate Obama” because you can see his shit and talk about it, is for immature political bullshit artists like PA who can’t put a cogent syllogism together to save their ass. Will I vote for Obama in 2012? Not unless Gitmo is closed which is the deal he promised people like me who wanted full accountability for the Cheney Era crimes. He’s given us zip. He lied to us, pandered to us, promised us the world, then let Eric Holder go after the whistleblowers like James Risen, John Kiriakou, and frankly even Bradley Manning (though some here would disagree there).Deuce Martinez, James Mitchell, Bruce Jessen and Roger Aldrich should be put on trial for torture and we can see that they’d rather go after Kiriakou who confirmed what we suspected.Then you have to go all the way to Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice who approved it. If we are to ever establish discipline in our various agencies, we have to have the courage of our convictions and not this, “but the agency will revolt if I try one of theirs!”Maybe!But not all of them and I can bet, you and LJ can call me out on this, some would be damn thankful.I know 2 SERE instructors who would love to see Jessen and Mitchell held to account. They smeared their school. They turned their work into torture and made us our own enemy.But…what has Obama done about this, “move on”, “put it behind us”…guess what..it isn’t behind us. and no matter how much PA and his trolling types want to spit shine Obama’s delicate balls, I could care less about their happiness with their vote if it means we have to get this pathetic betrayal of principle from their glorious leader.What PA is indicating is that he doesn’t have friends in his life who call him on his shit, he probably blankets his world in like minded only. I don’t care either way. It is humorous to read false hyperbole about yourself, isn’t it RetSPO?When I mention that I’ve been here for a while (meaning I know the vibe of the place very well), PA paints me as “very important”…nope. Just a contributor and videographer but with a different view than the majority here. Further, I never come and get into it with you guys over posts. If I don’t have something useful for NQ, I don’t come. I read it all week though.This is Larry’s blog and I aim to respect that he calls it like he sees it. It is why I call him my friend, I really like that. We don’t see eye to eye on everything, even better! Imagine if the world were all my view…that wouldn’t even be good for me!Thanks RetSPO, I’ve enjoyed your words here for a while.