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How Much Longer Do we Have to Wait?

By Pat Racimora on February 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM in Current Affairs

Republicans can’t seem to make up their minds as to which of the four will stay on board.

Which little piggy do you think will leave next?

If I were the betting type I would say only Mitt Romney has a chance of giving Obama a good run, if there is any money left in any GOP pockets.

How about you?

Anonymous

Here is Mitts problem…. Mormons in America a Pew Poll….
http://www.pewforum.org/Christian/Mormon/mormons-in-america-mormon-moment.aspx#acceptance

Are Americans ready to elect a Mormon? Look at the attached poll and in a close race the NO percentages, Men 26% and Women 37% could disable a Romney run for the WH. Take the Rep/Rep Leaner at 26% could very well be an election killer.

“Recent Pew Research Center polling indicates that Romney’s Mormonism is a potential stumbling block in the GOP nomination campaign, though it is unlikely to affect him adversely in the general election should he obtain the GOP nomination.”

The above is yet to be seen since the majority of American’s are yet engaged and its very critical for Mitt to make his case where the metal meets the meat. The poll does explain how both Noot and St. Rick are yet side tracked …. This is very much a Christian Right/Mormon fight.

“Catholics and white evangelical Protestants are much less likely to see their own faiths as similar to Mormonism than Mormons are to see Catholicism and Protestantism as similar to Mormonism.”

Yes many Catholics and Protestants forget the evangelical label for a minute, will not vote for a Mormon. The Catholic Church views Mormonism as paganism and In a close election the percentages matter.

Huntsman was playing this Mormon card very correctly and did not come under the same attacks as Romney…. Huntsman had and has a better chance to defeat Obama than Romney.

Anonymous

Sure agree that Huntsman would have been a good choice.

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

Sure think if left to choose between Huntsman and Obama
I’d elect a high speed led injection to my upper palate

Anonymous

Sounds too painful….

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

Not as painful as living through either term

Anonymous

Sorry I turned the posting into a theology debate….

Anonymous

Oh well–need to have those every little bit. Religion is often the elephant in the room.

http://www.theindependentview.com Matthew J. Weaver

Right now we’ve got a lively primary campaign that involves far more than just replacing Obama it November. We are seeing the direction and control of the party revisited. Will it be home of moderates, independents, and conservatives or will it succumb to religious social conservatives and chickenhawk neo-cons.

I actually do not see any of the four current candidates dropping out. With the media’s helpful (sarcasm) role, everyone one of these candidates can sustain themselves to the convention. Romney, in my opinion, will prevail. Paul makes a second. Santorum and Gingrich have niche roles and will scrape the bottom with sufficient support to claim even limited credibility.

The real battle is not whether Romney will face Obama, but what will be the Republican platform he’s given.

And to Popsmoke, yes, unfortunately religious bigotry is at play in this election. Unfortunate that we’ve still got people who think which church or if a person even goes to church means more than how they behave and their values when outside of church. I have zero tolerance for religious bigotry and wish it could be ignored or those playing it be shamed from the public arena. Unfortunately, we’re stuck with a bigots, just as Democrats are stuck with playing with racism and misogynism.

On the positive side, the infighting now is going to prepare the eventual candidate to walk all over Obama. Yep, we may finally get the chance to vet Obama.

Anonymous

I am not so sure this is religious bigotry. The minority percentage number do represent the true or should I say practicing faithful of the religions. There is a definite difference between what the mainstream Christians believe and what Mormons believe is Christianity.

Namely,

1. There is one God. 2. There is Heaven and Hell. 3. There are three persons in one God and 4. The second divine person became man for our salvation.

Mormons do not hold to the truths that all Christians must seek. When I say all Christians I am referring to Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Evangelicals, The Baptists and Methodists etc. All of these mainstream religions all believe in the same things except for the Mormons and Churches such as Jehovah Witnesses considered a Christian denomination with a totally different set of views. We all fight over all other theology but not who is God. One cannot say this is religious bigotry. There is no intolerance here. None of the mainstream religions persecute the Mormons. We all believe in the Constitutional rights to free religious association.

But to say that those who actually believe in the covenants of their faiths are bigots is a little excessive. For that matter then political difference should also be considered bigotry.

Anonymous

I wasn’t going to talk about this subject but I feel compelled to give a first hand personal example to show the bigotry Mormons can receive. And I am not talking about the theological differences we may have which in my mind do not constitute religious bigotry.

After I converted a few years ago at work I was riding in a vehicle with other employees. I could not help but
over hear their conversation. At one point one of my passengers started talking about the Mormons and I just listened while it was not presented in a negative
manner. But then one of the two in the conversation said, ” yeah but those Mormons you got to treat them just like (insert the N word)”. At that point I felt like I had to say something and I said that I was a Mormon. Then he stunned me by saying, “well tell me this, why do Mormons always move fences?” I didn’t know exactly how to reply to this but I finally said, ” well those who do that are not living up to the principles of their faith”. BTW neither one of those two gentlemen were Fundamentalist Christians.

I don’t think you or others like you are religious bigots. But there are a lot of bigots out there even those who hate Christians just because they are Christians. Hollywood for example is I believe equally apt to ridicule and demean Fundamentalist Christian and Mormon alike.

I would rather talk about the things we do have in common. Such as a high commitment to family values and areas of morality in general. If Romney is elected you can rest assured he will not disappoint you in those areas.

Anonymous

Look your beliefs are yours.. No one has a right to claim otherwise. But to say your equals with the mainstream christian faith is again being intellectually dishonest.. Your passengers were fools and very intolerant, but your folk have done the same things to Catholic but in a very different manner.

” [Under the heading, "Church of the Devil," Apostle Bruce R. McConkie
lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart,
described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other
churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129). ”

Now like I said no where in any Catholic doctrines or dogmas will you find anything like this…..

Anonymous

Sorry, I was raised as a Catholic, and there is a prayer that states, the one true church under God. What’s the difference. My brother, the evangelical, wants me to convert, so that I can go to heaven, otherwise, according to him, I’m screwed. Honestly, it’s all bigotry, so please don’t point fingers at the Mormons, because you have one pointed right back at you. I want a good leader, someone with good moral values, someone who has run something before, so that he isn’t learning on the job with us.

Anonymous

I guess you then don’t have a good understanding of your faith nor an understanding of what bigotry is . For that I am sorry and I am also sorry that your brother thinks you have to convert to go to Heaven. That too is very sad.

If you believe that Christ is God and have given your heart to him then you have a good chance of getting in. Remember His Mercy is greater than all.

I am not going to get into a religious debate with you. But you seem very troubled so my advise would be to sit down with your Parish Priest and ask him these questions.

By the way, we are all doing the on the job training thing. After all we are only human.

Anonymous

By the way, he’s a really good friend of mine. My Mother, until her death, was the President of the Alter Society. I am not confused-thank you very much.

Anonymous

Ever READ the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

Anonymous

I was a former Catholic and since I joined the LDS church I have never heard anyone speak badly of the Catholic Church.

Anonymous

I hate to tell you. You are still Catholic.

Unfortunately I have encountered Mormon attacks on the Church and as a Advocate for a Catholic Regional Bishop had to deal with them.. Like proselytizing in front of a Catholic Church before and after Mass…. Though that did get put to an end rather quickly by one of the Mormon Bishops.

Unfortunately the Mormon Doctrines I listed are still published by the Mormon Church.

Ask your President or Elder….
Anonymous

Reply to Popsmoke here because I am running out of room width wise.

You are wrong about me still being a Catholic I am not. But be that as it may Elder McConkie statement wasn’t the first time that accusation was not the first time against the Catholic Church in fact it was the basis of the Protestant reformation.

But I am on this site to talk politics not religion so I am not going to respond to your comment dealing with this subject again. And this will probably be a relief to the other readers on this blog.

Anonymous

Sorry if I upset you. But no where in any other protestant doctrine is it written as part of its belief.

Anonymous

“why do Mormons always move fences?”

what does that mean?

Anonymous

Stealing land.

http://profile.yahoo.com/DXEH5226VXYIM22E66OTQCVPRE Jacqueline S

We believe in God the Eternal Father and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

The first article of faith in the LDS religion.

We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, to worship how, where, or what they may.

The 11th article of faith in the LDS religion.

We hold the Bible to be the word of God—we have additional scriptures as well.

We believe in Heaven as described in the Gospel of John and in Hell as described in the Book of Revelation.

Religous intolerance or ignorance is nothing new to us. We are just glad it is verbal these days.

You will not find LDS leaders denegrating other faiths. We may not agree with other theologies on everthing but we do have a deep and abiding faith in Christ.

We do not protest outside other faith’s holy sites as many do at our Temples.

Judge us by our deeds. Look at the good voluntary works provided by the “Mormon” welfare system in Hurrucane Katrina. We deployed before the military in an arc from Texas to South Carolina waiting for the stormt o pass so we could bring relief and serve those in need.

Anonymous

First… Yes your deeds are great and I worked with Mormons and Seventh Day Adventist during Katrina. This has nothing to do with bigotry. There is a honest and direct conflict between our two teachings. You know this very well. I do not want to debate your religion and this is not the site for that. It is your religion and that fine with me. But to deny the major differences is not being intellectually honest. To also claim it bigotry is also intellectually dishonest.

“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God”?

But here is my questions…

Who is God?
Who is the the Father, Son and Holt Spirit?
Who is Jesus Christ?
What is the teaching under LDS GP Chap 16?

Or maybe you can then explain this? ” “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177). ”

For the record, I dated a Mormon and I would not convert but we still communicate. Be careful now….
Anonymous

By the way, deeds are indeed one thing as written by St. James. But remember what St. Paul said in the Letter to the Galatians about faith. Gal 3:11: “The law will not justify anyone in the sight of God, because
we are told: “the righteous man finds life through faith..” You cannot isolate one from the other….

Anonymous

I was raised catholic, attended catholic schools but I have no idea why someone’s religion has anything to do with his/her ability to be president. it just doesn’t enter my mind at all.

Anonymous

i meant capacity to be president. all i want to know is whether the person is intelligent enough and competent enough to lead the country.

Anonymous

How about this guy? Michael Jenkins? http://www.familyfed.org/news/index.php?id=22&page=1&apage=8

http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

How about Thomas Jefferson — atheist or John Adams Unitarian? Give it a rest — your bigotry is yours alone, our country’s history re: the POTUS & founding fathers doesn’t support it. In fact, it supports the EXACT opposite as the founding fathers wanted to guard against the type of religious persecution of minority religions that you keep trying to incite.
You are 0-2, brother: wrong on your theology & wrong on your history.

Anonymous

Sorry to disagree with with you Hank. But the position of the Church and the basic theology as I have posted is very much on target.

Anonymous

Religion has played into politics from day one. Lets stop kidding ourselves. People would not vote for JFK because he was Catholic and he was the last Catholic President. So please!

Anonymous

Apparently some did vote for John Kennedy.
How many Catholics have run for the Presidency since? Do you honestly think that we’ve had no Catholics since because of their religion? It says far more about the abilities of the person to be effective as President than it says anything about his religion.
I do not find Romney wears his religion on his sleeve. If anyone does, it’s Santorum. It is his right to do so.
I don’t care what the religion of any candidate is as long as he or she doesn’t try to impose it on me. That separation of Church and State is a pretty good thing. We live in precarious times and if we are to survive, we need to address the real problems at hand and not create problems where they don’t really exist.

Anonymous

Hope you are right.

Anonymous

I don’t see anyone going anywhere soon unless Gingrich completely tanks on Super Tuesday. I think the race will last through March.

Anonymous

Good chance Romney bows out after he wins in Georgia. Go out with a win. That is the best option for him at this point, as if Romney loses to Obama he can say I told you so and then he will once again be powerful in the Republican Party.

Anonymous

I had trouble following this. can you claify?

Anonymous

Rich, I don’t think it’s clarifiable. Just jibberish.

Anonymous

“How Much Longer Do we Have to Wait?”

It is called Democracy. The 2008 Democratic primaries went all the way to August. It is a two horse race now between Santorum and Romney. Last time you guys (2008) had a short primary (McCain essential won in March) you guys put the wrong candidate in there.

“If I were the betting type I would say only Mitt Romney has a chance of giving Obama a good run, if there is any money left in any GOP pockets.”

Yeah.. Romney is trying to buy this nomination.

Romney is the best of a bad bunch, but he is already pretty far behind Obama. All you guys can hope for is a turn down in the economy at this point or some kind of white horse to come riding in.

The Republican primaries are important, as the American people can finally see what the Republican party is all about and it ain’t pretty.

There is a struggle for the Republican Party between three groups: (1)libertarians/Tea Party types, (2) evangelicals and (3) establishment/big money types. Which segment do you fit into?

There will be plenty of time for the general election. Plenty of time for your candidate to make their case.

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

Dream on. It’s a two man horse race between Romney and Paul

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

BbbbbbaaaaaawwaaaaahhhhhhAAAAAAAAHAHHHHHHHaaAAAH

R U KIDDING ME?!?

Romney and Paul r in this thing TOGETHER – Paul isn’t even trying to hide it anymore.

This is yet another reason y Romney as the GOP candidate scares me shitless. If he choose Paul as a running mate?

Hell Bells folks – even I can design a campaign to crush that -Obama gets a free ride into the 2cnd term.

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

You bought that hook line and sinker huh! Media still have their hooks in you.

You obviously know nothing about Paul. He hasn’t spent his whole career standing on principle and staying steadfast and true to the constitution no matter how much he was threatened, coerced, or flashed with money. The man is not about sell out to be a hamstrung VP or to get his son a job. His son HAS a job and got there all on his own merit. He doesn’t need his old man to pull strings for him. AS IF RON PAUL WOULD DO THAT ANYWAY!

Pa- leease!

Paul is going after Santorum for his own strategic reasons.

Romney needs Paul Because he can’t beat Obama without Paul supporters but that doesn’t mean it’s going to work out for Romney.

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekjnCtR_O0Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If Ron Paul was being genuine to his neo confederate “constitutional” moorings he’d have something to say against Romney as well.
Want to know the truth about Dr. Paul? Ask him about the Civil War and if the south was constitutionally right to seek succession . Ask him about Abraham Lincoln whom he sees a villain for his war of aggression against the south. ask him about his racist pals like Rockwell & Rothbart and how they are indeed no better than the likes of Ayres and rev Wright.
But never mind. . . You are just too busy to worry about the roots of this champion of yours to be concerned with such things.
I almost hope Paul does get to the national election to witness his complete and utter destruction and I guarantee it be swifter than any other one witnessed before.

Sent from my iPad

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

Paul will deal with Romney when it’s time to. It’s not time yet. He did produce this Ad which he has run the most or did you miss this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21LohRJZQVU

Does that make you feel better?

The civilwar wasn’t faught to abolish slavery. The U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution, nearly unanimously, that stated that the North was not waging the war to overthrow slavery but to preserve the Union. Lincoln didn’t make the war about slavery until he started losing the war.
Check out the Civil War documentary poduced by PBS and you may gain some insight about the Civil War and why it was fought. You’re knowledge is on the civil war is wanting. But your knowledge on Ron Paul is abysmal. Prove your points rather than flail acustations and then maybe we could have an intelligent debate.

Who are you supporting? Santorum? Why not ask Santorum about why, as the republican Senate Whip, he ran around the senate whipping up votes to pass a bill which funded Planed Parenthood enabling them to proform abortions.
He defended this act saying sometimes you need to compromise. If you can’t stand for something you stand for nothing. Rick doesn’t even stand for what he says he stands for.

And also, you might want to rethink getting you’re info from Mark Levin

He’s foundering himself Mark Levin Gets Canned From WSPD Radio For Lies About Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d1oBdMcYtE&feature=youtu.be

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

For anyone seeking to find a bit more truth behind Dr Pauls unvetted past and his close ties to individuals like Lew Rockwell and Muarry Rothbart can read the link http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/2011/12/how-did-we-get-here-or-why-do-20-year-old-newsletters-matter-so-damn-much/
As to conservatives who name have bought into the murky history of libertarianism read further into the conflict between Libertarians and conservatives here http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/conservatives_and_libertarians_1.html

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

blah blah blah

zero proof

Whats a matter? Grasping at straws must make you tired

http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

I am sorry for that I am at work so to put a lengthy RE: together is not going to happen
But hey you are welcome to review the links there and find what u disagree w/

Sent from my iPhon
http://ptab-outoforder.blogspot.com/ Ptab01

Wow that was really hard hitting stuff !!
I am surprised Romney did not just call it quits right then and there. A flip flopper… As if that hasn’t been around the media track a thousand times. And the worst is you are naive enough to stand up and present it as proof of something of substance.
I noticed now you did not feel you needed to answer the questions I presented, what is the view of Ron Paul on Abraham Lincoln? What is his opinion on the civil war? He isn’t a conservative – he is a libertarian, and there very distinct differences and yet there his supporters were at CPAC. Hell he doesn’t even like to be part of the Republican party but there he is up on the stage vying for the nomination. So why are the libertarians trying to jump the train of the Republicans? Why are their ideas and virtues not reaching the everyday American and becoming a nationally recognized party?

This tiny little view behind the curtain ought to confirm for all, the reason you get a slight chill when you consider Dr.Paul as the republican nominee … http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/222384-stormfront-white-nationalists-showing-overwhelming-support-ron-paul.html
Nice… Now I don’t think Dr. Paul is A racist … No I do not… But is clear he has no issue with associating with racist. And you wish to bitch about Obama and his choice of associates then logic calls for one the at least ponder Dr.Pauls decisions does it not?

Sent from my iPad

Anonymous

You guys? (I’m a Clinton Democrat!)
And. I just loved that photo. Had to make it work somehow.

Anonymous

Pat,

Are you guys that thin skinned that you cannot take any alternative views? You have to erase all the posts of those who do not agree with you.

Anonymous

I didn’t remove it…

Anonymous

Well your emperor did… very lame that you guys feel you have to censor anyone who disagrees. Very typical of those on the right, to ban and censor all those who don’t tow the party line.

Anonymous

Long live the Emperor! Long live the Emperor!

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

CNN’s John King admits that Ron Paul is in second place in the current delegate count.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PDwmDlS7I&feature=player_embedded
Anonymous

If the car is the Obama reelection machine, they are waiting to for the GOP to get their act together so that they can get going.
http://twitter.com/jbjdjbjd jbjd

Buddy Roemer is going 3rd party. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-201202231010usnewsusnwr201202220222roemerfeb23,0,1748711.story

Anonymous

Great, just what we need-a third party-NOT!
Anonymous

Who?

Just kidding.

Anonymous

I have enjoyed reading this blog for several years and can probably count on one hand how many times I have responded. I respect your right to an opinion Popsmoke but I feel compelled to respond to your repeated attempts in various threads to imply that all Catholics have a problem with Mormonism.

As an Irish Roman Catholic, I have seen first hand just how devastating religious intolerance can be and I can assure you all Catholics do not share your ascertions. I do not, nor do anyone I know have a problem with Mormon teachings. I admit I myself know very little about Mormon doctrine. I do not need to know because I am voting to elect a president, not a pope.

I was raised in the catholic church to respect the right of others to worship as they see fit. The Catholic church is not perfect. For all its support for democratic principles, it is not a democracy. We do not make the rules, elect our officials and gender equality is pretty much non-existant. I like many of my fellow parishoners were sadden and disgusted by the recent sexual abuse scandles and how it was covered up by our leaders. Those acts were criminal and should have been subject to criminal prosecution.Yet despite all this, I do believe in the basic tenents of my faith and I do not want anyone or any form of government to dictate how we worship.

Futhermore, since you strike me as a very intelligent fellow, I know I need not remind you that there are many from the “mainstream” Protestant religions that still consider our Catholic faith to be a cult. It is something I never quite understood, but when I hear Catholics like Rick Santorum passing judgement on the morality of others, or others such as yourself passing judgement on someone’s belief system, I sure am starting too. Anyway you look at it, it’s ugly, and no good will come from it.

Anonymous

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.

I’m actually appalled and shocked at the comments here tonight. I have never in my personal life ever heard anyone express such bias toward Mormons. I find it bizarre.

Anonymous

What is the difference between bias toward Mormons and bias towards democrats or republicans? You do not believe in God? Sorry to hear that but I will not apologize for my Catholic beliefs in God…

Anonymous

I believe in God. I am a Catholic. I don’t understand your position on this. I have never been taught through 12 years of catholic school education that I could not vote for a Mormon (or for a person of any other faith).

Anonymous

I never said the Church says don’t vote for a Mormon. But you as a Catholic should read….http://usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/

“Responsible citizenship is a virtue,
and participation in political life is a moral obligation.”– Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship

‘By our baptism, Catholics are committed to following Jesus Christ and to be “salt for the earth, light for the nations.” As the Catechism of
the Catholic Church reminds us, “It is necessary that all participate,
according to his position and role, in promoting the common good. This is inherent in the dignity of the human person … As far as possible
citizens should take an active part in public life” (nos. 1913-1915).’

http://twitter.com/Juliezzz Juliezzz

…Or bias against Muslims for that matter. We all have biases whether we admit them or not. Naturally we want a representative that is closest to our own values. It’s only natural. I chose to look at people as individuals rather than make broad sweeping generalizations about the group they belong to but in the end it is almost unavoidable. Mostly I stick to their choices from their life. But if their record is full of flip flops it gets harder to trust that individual.

One thing more, regardless how you feel personally, or whether its right or wrong, there is the fact that southern evangelicals will have enormous problems voting for a Mormon. This is just a fact of this particular time in history. A clash of religions is real even if people don’t want it to be real. And it’s a very real factor in this election. The Romney camp and the GOP know this too well.

Anonymous

Yes your are correct to focus on choices in a candidates life. When Mitt was governor flip-flopping was a political strategy. Many MA Catholics still to this day feel that Mitt pulled the rug from under them.

“The initial injury to Catholic religious freedom came not from the Obama administration but from the Romney administration,’’said C.J. Doyle, executive director of the Catholic Action League of
Massachusetts. “President Obama’s plan certainly constitutes an assault on the constitutional rights of Catholics, but I’m not sure Governor Romney is in a position to assert that, given his own very mixed record on this.’’

It is an issue and the conflict I face…..

Anonymous

What is the difference between bias toward Mormons and bias towards democrats or republicans? You do not believe in God? Sorry to hear that but I will not apologize for my Catholic beliefs in God…

Anonymous

First of all I have never said “All Catholics”…. Nor do I support Rick Santorum even though he is Catholic. Most Catholics do not understand our own faith forget another faith and I am no bigot. One wants to worship cornstalks? Then go for it. But do not call that Christianity. Yes the Catholic Church is not perfect no Church or faith is. Priests are humans not gods, they are just as fallible as we are. I once worked for the Church as a Bishops Advocate. Believe me I have seen it all.. More than you can even imagine and I am still a Catholic.

Yes there are Protestant groups not faiths that believe we Catholics are not Christians. Hell I live in Indiana there HoosierinDixie! You just got to love the Dutch if you live in Indiana. But if they want to believe they are the goto folk, then that is fine with me too. I don’t attend their Churches. But they believe in the same Truths I noted above. The Mormons do not. No matter the faults of any Church. Jesus Christ is God…Period. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one…Period. Christ as God took human form by Virgin birth and died for our sins….Period. There is a Heaven and a Hell… Period… Not other Planets to one day rule….

I have a conflict with a Mormons as President of the United States. That is actually something I am working out with my Pastor and my faith. I have said this in the past and I will say it again. Huntsman was acceptable to me even as a Mormon. He did not wear his religion on his sleeve as Romney has. But then again you do not become Governor of Utah unless your a Mormon. Lets talk about religious bigotry now….

Lastly, we are a country built on Christian principles. Those principles include, One Nation under God! That God is Christ. Not the Godhead, Not Three Gods. Just One…. Would you vote for someone who was part of the Unification Church? Who believes some thing even totally different? If not then why not?

I am not going to tell you how to vote. You stated you know very little about Mormons. Well as a Catholic my recommendation is to seek counsel with your Priest or Pastor and get his advise religiously speaking. Then make your own decisions when it comes time.

But as a Catholic remember this…. Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me”….

Anonymous

I live in Georgia now and I will be casting my vote for the one person I feel is the best quallified to correct the number one problem in the country…….the Economy. I will proudly cast that vote for Mitt Romney. His religious beliefs are of no concern to me.
Thanks for the tip but there is no need to seek the advice of my priest. He’s voting for Romney too. Glad to hear you are making attempts to overcome the idea of a Mormon president but if you review some of your post here you have to admit you need alot of work in that area. Good luck and God Bless.

Anonymous

Great to hear your going to exercise your right to vote your choice. Of course you conflict yourself by saying your are loyal to the tenants of your faith. I am afraid you need a lot of work in that area. But like many Catholics that is nothing new. Of course you telling me that your Priest is voting for Romney is meaningless…. But then again like I said Priest are not infallible.

Vote away….

Anonymous

I misunderstood. I thought you were telling me to seek the counsel of my priest before I vote. I said I do not need to nor would his advice persuade me one way or another. I own my vote. I am not conflicted with my faith in any way but I now seriously believe you are. Which is why you are so bothered by someone who does not share your idea of Christianity. You can quote scripture until you are blue in the face. I don’t need a religious lesson from you. Good night

Anonymous

I am glad your exercising your right to vote for who ever you chose. But the last thing I am conflicted over is my Catholic faith….Matter of fact you might say I am a Arch-Catholic and a defender of the faith today. Something I was not once. My bad….
Anonymous

Agree with you Hoosier Dixie. I’m a former Roman Catholic turned Mormon. I was born, raised, and educated in Catholic high school and colleges and raised my own children as Roman Catholic – didn’t convert to Mormonism until a few years ago. One of the reasons I converted was in our small “ward” (Mormon term for a parish) was because a former member of my Roman Catholic parish belonged to that ward and I admired her as a Roman Catholic and then as a Mormon. Later I was to find out there were a significant minority of former Roman Catholics in just our ward alone. The Mormon Church is a big contributor financially to Catholic Charities – something I didn’t know when I worked for Catholic Charities many years ago when I was still Roman Catholic. I also know some Roman Catholics who are for Romney and don’t have a problem with his Mormonism at all. I have a feeling if my parents were alive today, Romney would be their choice. They were Roman Catholic but they could not say enough good about a bishop in the Mormon church who came down from Iowa (they lived on a farm in Missouri) and helped to clean up their home after flooding back in the 90s.

Anonymous

I don’t know of any tenet of the Catholic faith that prohibits me from voting for a Mormon, or a Jew, or Muslim or Budhist or any other faith for that matter.

Anonymous

jrterrier…

This is an FYI…
This is a partial re-post to Hank. But here are those Tenants…. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm

Excerpt…

There
is no bigotry here on my part but there is conflict of teachings and
that is the only thing I am working on. The teaching conflict…

Ok
so here is my conflict. Its call the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
As a Catholic I am sure you have spent the time to read it.

Now
the Church is no democracy. The Pope along with the Cardinal and Bishops
are the authorities. Cannon Law and the Catechism are not debatable
among the laity. You want to change it? Get a Cannon Lawyer and good
luck.

So for starters… Read ….

Remember this is the authority of our Church.

Excerpts….

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Part Three 2110 to 2141. Life Of Christ III. “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME”

2110 (Excerpt) The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people.

2112
(Excerpt) The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man
neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one
true God.

2113 (Excerpt) Idolatry not only refers to false
pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry
consists in divinizing what is not God.

2114 (Excerpt) Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God.

Continue reading the section in its entirety and to 2141….

(Now try this? http://www.catholic.com/quickq... )

Mormons love to push their deeds. But we cannot separate deeds and faith. One is dead without the other.
Anonymous

jrterrier…

This is an FYI…
This is a partial re-post to Hank. But here are those Tenants…. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm

Excerpt…

There
is no bigotry here on my part but there is conflict of teachings and
that is the only thing I am working on. The teaching conflict…

Ok
so here is my conflict. Its call the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
As a Catholic I am sure you have spent the time to read it.

Now
the Church is no democracy. The Pope along with the Cardinal and Bishops
are the authorities. Cannon Law and the Catechism are not debatable
among the laity. You want to change it? Get a Cannon Lawyer and good
luck.

So for starters… Read ….

Remember this is the authority of our Church.

Excerpts….

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Part Three 2110 to 2141. Life Of Christ III. “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME”

2110 (Excerpt) The first commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people.

2112
(Excerpt) The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man
neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one
true God.

2113 (Excerpt) Idolatry not only refers to false
pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry
consists in divinizing what is not God.

2114 (Excerpt) Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God.

Continue reading the section in its entirety and to 2141….

(Now try this? http://www.catholic.com/quickq... )

Mormons love to push their deeds. But we cannot separate deeds and faith. One is dead without the other.
Anonymous

What Should Catholics Know about Mormons?
http://www.osv.com/tabid/7631/itemid/9007/What-Should-Catholics-Know-about-Mormons.aspx

Fair assessment and the conflict of the teachings….

Anonymous

I live in Georgia now and I will be casting my vote for the one person I feel is the best quallified to correct the number one problem in the country…….the Economy. I will proudly cast that vote for Mitt Romney. His religious beliefs are of no concern to me.
Thanks for the tip but there is no need to seek the advice of my priest. He’s voting for Romney too. Glad to hear you are making attempts to overcome the idea of a Mormon president but if you review some of your post here you have to admit you need alot of work in that area. Good luck and God Bless.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

You flat out admit you have a problem with Romney being POTUS simply because he is a Mormon, yet claim to be a Christian — please, stop embarrassing the Christians.
Furthermore, in a previous thread you’ve already shown you don’t get the whole concept of the Holy Trinity so please stop lecturing people on the tenants of the catholic faith — you’re just embarrassing yourself.

Anonymous

Hank….

Don’t tell me I do not get the entire concept of the Holy trinity? My postings are simple because I want to keep it simple and this is not the theology debate site. What I have stated is basic fact. There is nothing in dispute.

1. There is one God. 2. There is Heaven and Hell. 3. There are three
persons in one God and 4. The second divine person became man for our
salvation.

I site that the basic mainstream Christian Faiths all believe in the above and You throw Unitarianism at me and with that even Adams was conflicted.

Your the type I would love to get really into a debate with. But this is not the site. Yes I have a problem with Mormons and the conflicts between our Catechism http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM and Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship http://usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/ . I also have a problem with the flip-flopping Romney did during his tenure as Governor ….

http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

You flat out admit you have a problem with Romney being POTUS simply because he is a Mormon, yet claim to be a Christian — please, stop embarrassing the Christians.
Furthermore, in a previous thread you’ve already shown you don’t get the whole concept of the Holy Trinity so please stop lecturing people on the tenants of the catholic faith — you’re just embarrassing yourself.

Anonymous

http://youtu.be/Qs0eJtsZDpo
http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

Seriously, how long is popsmoke going to be allowed to post his bigotry against Mormons? First of all, he misrepresents the catholic faith (in a previous thread he proved that he doesn’t even grasp the concept of the Holy Trinity) yet presumes to lectures others on its theology. Second of all, he claims to be a Christian, yet admits he has a problem with Romney being POTUS for NO OTHER REASON than the fact that he his Mormon — that right there is an embarrassment to Christians. Finally, he has got the entire motives of our founding fathers wrong — they sought to establish a country where religious minorities would be free from the exact type of bigotry popsmoke is advocating. Thomas Jefferson was an atheist. John Adams was Unitarian. Neither advocated the “Christian principles” that popsmoke claims they did. How much misinformation on what it means to be a Christian, our country’s history and outright bigotry toward Mormons is this guy going to be allowed to vomit all over these threads?

To popsmoke: don’t bother answering me, because you are persona non gratis as far as I’m concerned. I’m tired of your vile bigotry against Mormons (not to mention your misrepresentations on theology & history). A person’s religion has no bearing on how they performs their job (and THAT is the principle this country was founding on). Your repeated claims otherwise prove that you are not worth debating.

Anonymous

in popsmoke’s defense, he said he was working with his pastor to overcome his concerns over Romney’s Mormon’s faith.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

So if he was spewing all this bigotry about, say a Jewish person, or a black person, but he was “working on his concerns with his pastor” it would be OK?
Bigotry is bigotry.

Anonymous

“Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.”

In other words, take it easy on each other.

Anonymous

Very true… But this is not about who is righteous. None of us are and they is the reason why we are suppose to pray and ask for forgiveness..

This is about the Church teachings and the conflict the teaching present. Living or trying to live the faith is not easy.

Anonymous

Hank…

You remind me of Hokma who plays the same name game. Blow smoke with no supporting fact except his opinion…

Yes Hokma when you read this I am talking about you. By the way nice slam at Pat Lang you coward. Guess you think your the better expert on the ME.. Or maybe you think Pat is also an anti-Semite?

Back to Hank..

There is no bigotry here on my part but there is conflict of teachings and that is the only thing I am working on. The teaching conflict…

Ok so here is my conflict. Its call the Catechism of the Catholic Church. As a Catholic I am sure you have spent the time to read it.

Now the Church is no democracy. The Pope along with the Cardinal and Bishops are the authorities. Cannon Law and the Catechism are not debatable among the laity. You want to change it? Get a Cannon Lawyer and good luck.

So for starters… Read ….

Excerpts…. Remember this is the authority of our Church.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Part Three 2110 to 2141. Life Of ChristIII. “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME”

2110 (Excerpt) The first commandment forbids honoring
gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people.

2112 (Excerpt) The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.

(Now try this? http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-mormonism-polytheistic )

2113 (Excerpt) Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It
remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing
what is not God.

2114 (Excerpt) Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God.

Continue reading the section in its entirety and to 2141….

So either debate the facts and educate or like Hokma …. Take a walk….

By the way, I would have the same issues with a Unitarian….

Anonymous

Hey Hank you better get a good grip on Catholic Teachings…. The basic theology I have posting is in PRINT! It is well drilled into all Catholics when they are young. As far as an embarrassment to Catholic teachings you better take a real good look at the polls. I am not the only Catholic with this issue and conflict.

During Adams tenure Mormonism was still a baby faith and afterwards Mormons were indeed persecuted and wrongly.

Now if my theology is wrong as I have posted here. Either prove me wrong with facts or back off….
Anonymous

To me the issue is the intent of our founding fathers and the protections specified in the 1st Amendment. I think that we all need to step back and take a few deep breaths here. Whether one agrees with someone’s religion or lack thereof, our country was founded upon the principle of mutual religious respect and tolerance.

I don’t agree with many religions but I support the rights of those who adhere to do so without persecution or ostracization. As long as someone isn’t trying to impose their beliefs on others I say live and let live.

It’s always perplexed me how religious institutions can claim to know what God’s will is. Do they have some imaginary hotline to the big guy in the sky? If God moves in mysterious ways and Christ will come like a thief in the night then how can anyone know what God’s will is?

So many needless wars have been fought over silly notions that religious institutions have all the answers and know what is best for the rest of us. And if we don’t buy into their load of indoctrinated crap we must be in league with the devil.

How did Christianity become such a major world religion? Was it due to people opening their eyes and suddenly realizing the truth? Nope. It was imposed upon them at the point of a sword so that folks got in line. In many ways it was as heinous as some of the most brutal practices of the Islamists.

All these fights about who is right and who is wrong are complete distractions from the real problems we face together.

Anonymous

I agree with you about seeing Mitt Romney as the only one with a chance to defeat Obama, which should be the GOP’s prime consideration. Instead they just keep beating up on each other. Does that make them stronger? Or just too battered to win any fight?

I don’t see the ego driven ”piggies” leaving any time soon. Any of them. And that’s all good for Obama.

Anonymous

The craziest thing is that most of the national polls where republicans choose santorum over romney also have those same persons overwhelmingly saying that Romney has the better chance to beat Obama.

It’s one thing to select someone because you like them and think they can win; it’s another thing to select someone because you like him but think someone else will win.

i don’t undertand their logic or believes on this.

Anonymous

No explaining irrational thinking jrterrier.

Perhaps they are just the “hope and change” bunch on the right. They hope things will change and their social conservative choice will have a chance. Nobody said all the dimwits were obots.

Anonymous

Ok, for those who think the media is fanning the social issues on Santorum, please note the latest statement from Mrs. Santorum. There’s nothing inherently wrong with the statement, but clearly they are pushing the religious issues:

“I personally think this is God’s will. I think He has us on a path, and I do think there’s a lot more happening than what we’re seeing,” Karen Santorum told Glenn Beck as she and her husband sat for an interview on his Web-based show, GBTV. “Personally I mean I think Rick’s a great guy, and he’s really smart and everything. But I think a lot more is happening than what we can actually see.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/feb/23/karen-santorum-husbands-surge-gods-will/

Anonymous

Okay, now it’s “God’s” plan. If I wasn’t all ready anti-social conservative this would push me into that camp.

She may be a very nice woman but I have no respect for anyone who tries to tell us that what “they” want is “God’s” will. I expect all the little wimmen folk to line up behind their menfolk and look and talk supportive. That’s all a part of the political game. This is just nuts.

Anonymous

I thought that Obama was God’s plan last time around. The oceans were going to recede and blah, blah, blah. The old plan isn’t working out too well. If Santorum is God’s new plan, then we are screwed.

Anonymous

Most people aren’t silly enough to think any damn politician is “God’s ” plan unless it’s a punishment for our sins.

I find claiming God as a supporter disgusting. Just as I find the very idea of Obamamessiah and Santimonious Santorum repulsive.

Anonymous

The last time we heard about this so-called gods will I am getting elected or am elected…. We went into two wars. This is the reason why as a Catholic I cannot vote for Rick….

http://twitter.com/PBdebateforum PoliticalBuddies

Romney is sure to be the only one left, however anyone is better than Obama at this point. This sort of thing is always posted on my debate community and we always have a great time debating it http://www.politicalbuddies.com