Hillary’s Health Care Proposal Could Become Reality

Bo has no comment because they haven’t told him what to say! He needs his puppet masters to get him going!

>>> But why do you think BO has no comment now?

To delay the time when it dawns upon the Fawners that Sayin’ You’re Gonna Get Some and Actually Gettin’ Some are two different things.

I have even more giggles to share. However, with this one you must be 18:

http://www.tinyurl.com/5wx8ge (You don’t have to be 18 for this gut-busting, laugh fest!)

Obama hasn’t a clue where he’s going to get the money for health care. The Democrats are busy trying to raid our 401Ks and with everyday they decline in value. The kettle is empty.

Brace yourself. nObama has nO comment because he is stupid. We now have a president select who thinks there are 57 states in USA. Whoa, his stupidity is endless. Where are his transcripts to prove he went to college? Anyone can lay claim to degrees…prove it! MEchelle had her law license pulled in the early 90′s. Anyone know why???

As an AA from Chicago, and as a managed care professional, Hillary plan was the primary reason I strongly supported her. All the other canidate plans would have put my Black A_s out of a job. The only problem with the plan is he will now take credit for it if is adopted.

Even with insurance, costs are still too high, saddling the consumer, and the professional, saddling the economy with disproportionate debt, this is the problem they’re not addressing.

They’re willing to cover everyone — that’s great, it really is, but a lot of us pay almost 15, 000 a year in heath care costs, and those are routine, what happens to those with chronic illness, or catastrophic illness?

It’s not enough until they control COSTS. Families should not be forced to bankruptcy because of one illness, really, the health care industry has turned Americans into indentured servants.

Many people I know remain uninsured because the COST is too high, NOT due to lack of eligibility.

Did you ever wonder why your candidate lost? There were 57 State Campaigns for the Primaries. Obama had set up an organization in each if the 57 and got to all of them. Some candidates did not even consider the 50 State General Election Strategy. So we now will watch the swaering in of President Barrack Hussein Obama. Sound Good?

Back on topic. Of course private insurance companies are going to say to Congress make everyone get insured – they along with the banks are collapsing. We should have proper singlepayer healthcare and with a Democratic majority as of now the Party has the mandate to do it and stuff the fearmongering Rethugs. They are out of office for at least four terms.

Why? Explain?

How do they enforce the mandate?

Do they give you a ticket, a fine, and send you to a corrections facility for operating an uninsured soma?

Even with insurance, costs are still too high, saddling the consumer, and the professional, saddling the economy with disproportionate debt, this is the problem they’re not addressing.

The last 4 paragraphs under “Remember Hillary’s health care plan?” covers part of that. It’s short on details but Hillary had the cost of health care in mind when she came up with her plan. But the devil is in the details.

I pay over 1000.00 a month for coverage, even more if I need to see a doctor, or have a prescription filled.

Now, apply that to a family.

If, for instance, the costs of medication are reduced, much like Bill Clinton did with AIDS medication in Africa, making it more affordable, couldn’t they lower the cost per unit, while still maintaining profit, increasing the availability to those who would otherwise go without?

And less cost immediately puts more money into the pockets of the individual consumer.

I think restructuring the health care industry alone could pay for the program.

Right now, I skip doctors visits unless absolutely necessary, if they were more affordable, I would go more often, even for preventive care, such as cholesterol, and such.

And btw, this is different from even 3 years ago, with wages stagnant, and prices rising, those visits were the first to go. But if I were to have heart trouble, at 4x the expense, then I’d go, costing everyone more.

Which is the problem, isn’ it?

Waiting until an emergency to act?

Costs more, for everybody.

just get it from Canada….

And in Clinton, I trust. (mostly)

Obama and Daschle?

No.

Maybe he has no comment because in their secret meeting after the primaries at Feinstein’s house, she told BO she would not press for a roll call at the convention and she would stump for him with her 18 million supporters if he would get her health care plan pushed through. But can she trust him, ‘no comment.’

If you don’t insure it, do you forfeit your right to operate a soma?

No, even controlling costs doesn’t solve the core problem, which is that a whole layer of after-tax profits for shareholders and big bonuses for top execs have to be built into the scheme. Much better to simply set up a government agency to do the work without the shareholders and guzzlers.

You can watch the swearing in of Fraudbama. A lot of us will NEVER call him “President” and will just watch the three ring circus of his “Presidency” while laughing our azzes off and freaks like you.

PS There are 57 ARAB STATES. I think that’s probably why Fraudbama made the goof. If Sarah Palin had done it she would have been hauled off Death Row. Your boss is a jerk. Period.,

Which part of That One has no ideas of his own are you completely failing to comprehend?

No one has even brought up the issue of hospitals. For years they were all not-for-profit. That certainly isn’t the case now. The care is no better than before but you now give an arm to go with the leg you once might have given.

No, even controlling costs doesn’t solve the core problem, which is that a whole layer of after-tax profits for shareholders and big bonuses for top execs have to be built into the scheme

And THAT is the core problem, isn’t it?

But they’d rather see their industry killed, ala the big three, rather than face reality, and cooperate.

I dont know, maybe studying Bill Clinton’s AIDS initiative for Africa might give a few ideas.

Do you ever make an intelligent comment?

Name the “57 Arab states”. I think you made that up. In fact, I know you did.

You are the stupidest person to ever blog here detractor. I feel sorry for your stupid troll azz, but the fact that you don’t even know that there are 57 Arab States shows what total MORON you are…from WIKI – look it up loser jizzbrain…

The Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) is an international organisation with a permanent delegation to the United Nations. It groups 57 member states, from the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, Caucasus, Balkans, Southeast Asia, South Asia and South America. The official languages of the organisation are Arabic, English and French.

Your use of the word intelligence creates an oxymoron of such magnitude that it may signal the end of the known universe, half-pint.

You’re right but it goes further than that…even bigger than the issue of the added cost of the current system due to the desire for profit is the fact that a profit model is absolutely incompatible with a service like health care. When allowing your customers to die or suffer illness improves your bottom line (as it does with health insurers), you can be sure that customers will be allowed to die and suffer ill health.

A business model which rewards a business for not performing the function it allegedly is in business to provide is a flawed model. When not performing that function can, and in many documented cases has resulted in death for your clientele, it’s even worse.

obama top advisor and lobbyist daschle is a problem:

Alston + Bird health care lobbying clients

Here is a list of health care and pharmaceutical clients for which Alston + Bird, employer of presumptive HHS nominee Tom Daschle, has reported lobbying Health & Human Services or its subsidiary Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services in 2008.
becoming44.org/content/alston-bird-health-care-lobbying-clients

It is and was outragous that a top obama advisor like lobbyist daschle was there in plain site while the “liberal media” told and still tells us obama will not have lobbyists in his campaign or admin.

Kosovo seeks Arab states’ recognition

28/08/2008

Kosovo is seeking diplomatic recognition from Arab states, partly by making a case for cultural affinity.

By Blerta Foniqi-Kabashi for Southeast European Times in Pristina — 28/08/08
photo

Kosovo President Fatmir Sejdiu speaks at the “Kosovo and the Arab World” conference on Monday (August 25th). [Laura Hasani]

Kosovo leaders on Monday (August 25th) called on Arab countries to recognise Kosovo’s independence during the “Kosovo and the Arab World” conference in Pristina. Participants included analysts from the Middle East and leaders of government and civil society in Kosovo. Forum 2015, a consortium of Kosovo NGOs, organised the event.

“Kosovo citizens thought that Arab states would take the lead among states in recognising Kosovo,” said President Fatmir Sejdiu. Instead, the only Muslim-majority countries to recognise Kosovo so far are Turkey, Afghanistan, Albania, Senegal, Burkina Faso and Sierra Leone. The Islamic Conference has 57 member states.

Hillary belongs in the senate, independent, not carrying Barack Obama’s water for him.

I do hope her plan is implemented. his was useless. I could do hours on why his plan would do NOTHING to fix the problem. The same number of people would be uninsured, Health insurers that have state legislators in their pockets would continue on as usual, and people forced into Single Pay would find his $2500 “reduction” useless in the face of what those policies really cost.

Perhaps medical professionals (and I use the term loosely) and pharmaceutical companies, et al., refraining from thinking of patients as a captive audience and a never-ending gravy train might also go a long way towards solving the health-care problem.

Clinton Decision Expected Soon

Some advisers to Sen. Hillary Clinton have told associates that by close of business on Friday, they hope to know, one way or the other, whether Clinton will become President-elect Barack Obama’s Secretary of State. Others insist that they expect a decision very soon, although no time-frame has been given.
marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/11/clinton_decision_expected_soon.php

Your intellect shows through in your choice of language.

“Islamic” does not = “Arab”, moron.

“Arab” applies to the peoples and states of the Arabian pennisula. Even Iranians are not Arabs, dumb”azz” – they are Persians, as any Iranian would tell you.

“Islamic” refers to religious belief.

These are two totally differenct constructs, though a babbling fool such as yourself cannot be expected to grasp what the essential difference is.

The health insurance burden must be removed from businesses. It’s a prime reason many of them left the country. The costs are astronomical. GM wants a bailout and the money would go to benefits of employees. America is at a disadvantage because this burden is placed on companies, unlike other countries.

If any breakthrough is made in this area, he will take credit; if there is failure, there is the fall-back, “Blame the Clintons”. It has worked for yars untold. That one winds, either way. Such is the sad state of polotics.

Nope, Canadian prices are still high, in some cases, comparable to those here, in America.

Also, some drugs simply aren’t available

And as with all supply and demand markets, prices will rise, accordingly.

Problem is the cost is too high, period.

And really, why do Americans have to go to Canada to get their medication?

It’s a hassle, and expensive, too.

I have insurance, even those with federal aid are trapped, as are those who are marginal, income levels too high for medicare, but not enough to pay their bills.

And if it isn’t the medication, it’s the cost of medical care.

Truthfully, Americans are indentured servants to the health care industry, and it’s wrong.

Typos galore in that response. Mea culpa.

The authority of knowledge will always be with Hillary. She will always be the “Go-To Person” because she is the only one who took time to really study the issues and to come up with workable solutions. In the end Obama will get cold feet and give in to those around him who have CDS and not let Clinton anywhere near the whitehouse. She’ll be able to serve the people better as the lone voice of the people in the senate.

How ironic that the man who is creating a shortage of corn and cranking up the cost of alternative grains–facilitating hunger throughout the world– is in charge of “health and human services” while he makes millions having a blast on three boards of directors of ethanol manufacturers.

Hey troll…Google 57 Arab States and that’s what comes up. Grow up loser. I sat there all night listening to your TROLL rant about the BC last night and you make us all vomit with your ignorance. The bottom line is FRAUDBAMA didn’t know there were 50 UNITED STATES and he quoted the 57 Arab States. End of story.

Both BO and Edwards plan called for basically creating another agency, which we do not need. A number of physicans are pulling out of medicare because of the reimbursement and I could foresee the same thing happening with a new agency. I do business/product development, where I look at trends in coverage and create products that meet an employers needs and cost structure. Under BO’s plan it mirrored medicare and would limit the participation of the free market. I totally resented it when the health care carriers became for profit, health care was a loss leader you made your money off of other products such as life, disability ect. But, with the advancement in medicine, people are treated for things that they never could be 1-20 years ago. For example AIDS, that was 2 year treatment at the most and very expense treatment. Now it can be 20-40 years of very expensive treatment.
My biggest problem when I was on the sales side and going over with my clients their experience for the previous year; and the number of premmie’s that required 3-6 months of hospitalization always increased the cost. When we talk about cost we have to take into consideration the cost of treatment.

But the biggesst obstacle to any headway in healthcare is for these alleged professionals to stop thinking of their patients as a captive audience and a never-ending gravy train. You can’t squeeze any more money out of a dead patient. If this isn’t addressed, all the reform in the world will have only a temporary effect. We’ll be back at this again five years hence.

Yup. A consumer cannot decide to skip the heart operation because it costs to much.

If your kid wants a widget but you think they are too expensive you don’t buy them a widget. If your kid needs medical treament you have to do it.

If your spleen explodes your aren’t gonna start shopping prices to get fixed.

Health care is not a free market item.

All the other canidate plans would have put my Black A_s out of a job.

That one!

Health care is not a free market item.

That says it all and thank you for saying it.

My doctor had to close an office, due to the economy, another declared bankruptcy.

I get the feeling they’re caught in this, too.

SOME doctors are horrific, simple garbage, others, the more ethical, are caught in the bind, too.

One practice insisted the doctors see a minimum number of patients per hour, and it doesn’t work, I’ve had doctors tell me of leaving such a practice, because the business came before the patients, and it shows.

I don’t think O-shit! wants it. Will it matter. Congress can have a veto proof bill.

But I find it funny how O-shit! now declares “we have only one president at a time” when ever he doesn’t want to address the issue.

Surely he isn’t trying to tell us he no longer has a position or preference on an issue. He seems to have given voice to a host of other issues, even though he isn’t presdient.

Yes, thank you, you’re right.

But they need to wisen up, before it’s simply taken away from them.

Calling names and using invective doesn’t make you right. Indonesia is not an “Arab state” regardless of how many fools have posted something on the internet that refers to it as one so that it comes up as a google hit. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Asscrackistan, all the -stans, Iran, African nations – NONE of them are “Arab states”, no matter how many rightwing morons refer to them as such.

As for your ridiculous serial rants about Obama thinking there were 57 states, he was referring to the 57 primary contests…but again, I wouldn’t expect such a thing to be within the grasp of a low intellect such as yours.

Now, go play in traffic.

You called nearly 70 million Americans scum. You are nothing but a disgrace and an embarrassment. You even said you friends have stopped talking to you.

Wow I can not understand why.

It won’t change until the public is fed up enough to force a rethinking of attitudes on the part of the medical profession.

Hey troll go find Stormfront. They hate Americans now for having elected a “muslim President”.

I thought it was an execrable choice, top to bottom.

I expect nothing from Daschle, nothing at all.

Saw a picture of him, yesterday, his head looks like it’s still in 1992, and even then, he looked weak, and confused.

He couldn’t deal with Cheney, how is he going to reform health care, against the insurance industry? Let the lobbyists write the bill, like they did for medicare “reform?”

Clinton knows how to handle those people, whether it’s the insurance cretins, or Putin.

With private sector being forced to compete with the public sector, what products would I develop? My Black A would be out of a job.

That One and that one are both lacking in credibility, then.

Hey TROLL…ROFLMAO…Why don’t you go back to the Daily Kook? Do you REALLY think any of us care what people like YOU talk about? You are the blight on America. Period. You people lie, harass people, use your OVomit bullying tactics, etc. Get a life.

When we talk about cost we have to take into consideration the cost of treatment.

This sort of laissez-faire approach is rather a direct violation of the Hippocratio oath, it would seem to me, unless everyone has the same chance at getting the treatment.

But where is the real fat?

And couldn’t cost be regulated accordingly?

And couldn’t profit margins be maintained, such as they are, if costs were made more affordable, to more people?

There has to be a vast storehouse of knowledge as to what moves these systems, I’m sure it’s very complex.

But it’s very difficult to see some undeserving CEO fly the company plane into Washington, begging for taxpayer money, to fund the company he couldn’t manage, like the big three, totally removed from the reality they are facing.

Same with health care.

I can’t recall what I was watching………but it was MSNBC…blah I know. The talking heads were calling for Barry to come out and make a statement on the economy.

But I find it funny how O-shit! now declares “we have only one president at a time” when ever he doesn’t want to address the issue.

I’m not ready for when he takes over.

Godpeed the next four years.

The History and Goals of the Organization of Islamic Conference (from Wiki)

Since the nineteenth century, Muslims had aspired ideas of uniting their community to serve their common political, economic, and social interests. Despite the presence of secularist, nationalist, and socialist ideologies, in modern Muslim states, King Faysal of Saudi Arabia cooperated with other Muslim leaders to form the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. The formation of the OIC happened in the backdrop of the loss of Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem. The final cause sufficiently compelled leaders of Muslim nations were to meet in Rabat to establish the OIC in May 1971.[1]

According to its charter, the OIC aims to preserve Islamic social and economic values; promote solidarity amongst member states; increase cooperation in social, economic, cultural, scientific, and political areas; uphold international peace and security; and advance education, particularly in the fields of science and technology.[1]

The flag of the OIC (shown above) has an overall green background (symbolic of Islam). In the center, there is an upward-facing red crescent enveloped in a white disc. On the disc the words “Allahu Akbar” are written in modern Arabic calligraphy.

On August 5, 1990, 45 foreign ministers of the OIC adopted the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam to serve as a guidance for the member states in the matters of human rights.

NO WAY. the insurance companies ARE the problem. of course they would “accept” making the whole country submit to their extortion.

Another village is lacking their special one tonight, PK.

Indeed. I love the way some in the country say that they would lose their choice if the government took a more proactive approach to healthcare. That sort of statement presupposes they actually have a say now. I always get s good har-dee-har-har out of those sorts of statements.

Kal,
I think that is silly class envy. Can you provide the percentage of gross income and profit that goes to top execs? I am guessing it is no more than a couple % points. There isnt alot of relief in wiping out “big bonuses” it just is a great way to take cheap shots at people we are envious of.

If you can show me how rolling executive profits into direct savings for the consumer ok, but I guess that is not even close to reality. Most executive bonuses make up about 2% of companies net income. That 2% spread out over 100,000′s of consumers doesnt bring alot of savings to the consumer.

I am guessing it is no more than a couple % points.

So then take it away from them. They shouldn’t miss that little anyway, if your figures are to be believed.

And this has what to do with jack?

Notice that the name of the organization is “Organization of ISLAMIC Conference.” Not “ARAB” states but “ISLAMIC” states. That’s what they call themselves. Is the word “Arab” anywhere in the title? Nope. Probably because THEY AREN’T ARAB STATES.

And yet you cut and paste it as though it supports your idiocy rather than rebuts it. Classic. Well done!

Hillary Clinton made an excellent, and very true, observation, as first lady, namely, health care was not accord equally, those who were poor, or those without insurance received less care, or worse care, than those with better insurance, even in terms of the doctors attitudes and efforts toward treating them.

This was correct, I can’t name any other politician in the forefront who recognized this inequality.

And it matters, not only for humane reasons, but this weakness in the system will affect us all, eventaully, best to handle the problem while it is still small. Perceptions, and divisions, do shift, what was middle class in 2000 is no longer middle class, under Cheney, and Bush, economically.

I dont get the logic here. maybe someone can explain it to me. people become doctors to make money. they pay for the schooling, endure the long hours, etc. because they are paid VERY well. Pharmacuetical companies research and develop drugs to make money. They invest, take the risks, face lawsuits, etc to be paid VERY well.

What motivation is in place to do these things if there is no, significant profit potential? The reason we lead the world in pharmacetical research and development, medical research and development, I think is because we provide the opportunity for profit. Am I wrong? If the “profit” is going to come from the Federal government, how does an entity running a 1/2 trillion annual deficit have the money to take that on?

Isnt a significant part of the problem with US health costs the unbelievably unhealthy society in which we have become? European obesity rates are around 5,6,7% the United States is around 31%.

The question is how many customers died or went without the care they paid for in order to amass that 2% of profit to allow the high salary. Let’s say the CEO makes a measly $15 million a year. That’s 15 liver transplants denied, or possibly more. 15 people who must die in order for the CEO to be adequately compensated. 15 people who PAID for care they were denied. The CEO’s compensation is a function of defrauding the customers of the company, who paid for services they never received.

There’s something horrifically wrong with that picture, and if you can’t see what it is, I can’t explain it to you any better than I’ve attempted to here.

You’re painting a false picture.

Not only does a lot of valuable medical and drug research and development come out of European countries with “socialized” health care, a large amount of the R & D that takes place here in this country is underwritten by government entitites such as NIH. Somehow both French and German pharmaceutical companies manage to flourish without carte blanche to bill whatever they like for their products, even under a system of nationalized health care. Ironically, this country is probably their main profit center, because they can charge whatever they like for drugs they patent here in the states. But they would survive even if they couldn’t make all their profit here.

well… that 2% is 100% of what their bonus is but only 2% of the companies net profit. You can take it away but it doesn’t solve the problem it only satisfies your blind envy. It just becomes clear that it really isnt about helping people it’s about lashing out at others.

I am not saying they deserve it or whatever… I dont know how big finance corporations work, I don’t know who deserves what, I dont know what difference this CEO candidate makes vs. that CEO candidate, all I am saying is blasting the CEO bonuses as if that is going to solve the problem doesnt get us anywhere near where we need to be. I am not sure the whole problem (or even a significant part of the problem) is corporate greed. I think it is a little more complex then that.

The greater reality is health care is breaking the economy.

And people can rationalize all they want, but without reform, they fail.

Period.

People become doctors to make money? Uhhhh. I thought it was to help people. If you only want to make money, go into business. Drug companies are evil. Notice you don’t hear the word “CURE” anymore. Just the word “TREATMENT”. Curing someone loses the drug companies a customer….treating them with expensive drugs that only they can make for the rest of their lives….well that’s some serious cash. By the by, part of that research and development you mentioned is finding profitable diseases. You heard me. There are a lot of diseases we can cure but the profit margin is not there.

Bullying tactics? You call people scum, harass them and take over a blog on implementing universal health care. I bet you think UHC is communist you thick POS.

Every one of you Bushbot scum we are going after electorally. Your Party will not even win elections for street cleaner.

detractor,
Well that isnt true. I think we would agree when your job is to run a multi billion dollar company you deserve compensation and to directly link that denied treatment is silly. Obie just spent 600 million dollars on an election, how many people could be treated with that money? How many people’s lives were saved because that company under that CEO developed a new method of treatment for cancer or whatever and that CEO was the impetus for development?

Here is an example Pfizer Pharmaceuticals makes an annual profit around 7 billion dollars, in 2006 Henry McKinnel, the CEO, made 2.27 million in salary and 3.7 million in bonuses. I thinkg that is one tenth of one percent of the total profit. Is taking that away going to solve anything?

I dont get the logic here. maybe someone can explain it to me. people become doctors to make money.

The “not getting it” is your problem. The Hippocratic oath isn’t concerned with monetary reward. If Doctors are in it for the money, then they should say so up front and stop with all the “I want to help people” bullshit. You can’t have it both ways, Doc.

Whether you are black or not is not relevant (and of doubt). Obama is not forcing the private sector to compete with the Public sector in health care and most definately not was McCain or even Hillary. Unfortunately.

Despite the lies of Republicans – it works well in the UK and it is shameful America does not have similar.

Well, yes, it is…but what’s worse is that it’s breaking the economy while at the same time defrauding consumers. I’d like to know if there’s anyone posting on this comment thread who doesn’t know of at least one horror story from a friend, family member, or acquaintance who supposedly had “good insurance” who ended up bankrupt or close to it thanks to their insurer denying coverage for needed care. I personally know at least 2 people who have been in this situation.

I went without health insurance for several years because I couldn’t afford it. I now have an individual “hit by a bus” policy, with a very high deductible but no copay once it’s met. It’s good insurance – I hope – for catastrophic illness, but there is no guarantee the insurer will pay if something bad happens, god forbid. But, back to where I was going…at the time I bought this policy, 6 other people in the company applied for individual policies. I was the only one accepted. Why? Because I don’t go to the doctor. Everyone else had compiled a medical history, like most people in America by the time they reach their 40s, and the insurer found a reason to turn down every single one of them. With me, I might have some horrific lurking disease or health issue that would have been picked up long ago if I went to the doctor regularly, but because I don’t, the insurance company has no way of knowing about it. So I got coverage.

Now, how f’ed up is that? You can only be accepted for coverage if you’ve never been to the doctor? And I know I’m not alone – if you aren’t insured but have a chance to get insurance in the future, you pray daily that you don’t get sick enough to require a trip to the doctor. Because if you do, the odds are good you’ll never have insurance again, and it makes any claim of being unaware of a “pre-existing condition” much harder to support.

That’s a stupid way to do things.

You’r quite the little Shill, aren’t you? I make a statement and you say I have blind envy. What a patent moron you are. Try taking your psychobabble back to botland, drip.

I am sorry but if you think people become doctors to help people you are living in a fantasy world. You dont spend 100′s of thousands in education and go through what they go through for training and face malpractice, etc. to simply “help people” it is a side benefit but that is not the main focus.

That’s a dumb example, for the simple reason that no one sent “Obie” money as payment for medical coverage.

CEOs are specifically rewarded for profits. One of the ways health insurers make profit is by denying payment for medical services people have paid them to cover. The less an insurer pays out on claims vs the amount collected on premiums, the higher the profits. There is a very direct link there.

Your example of the CEO of Pfizer isn’t applicable, because Pfizer isn’t in the business of insuring people’s health.

They do have a say if the Democratic Party cow tows to the Rethugs. Sod em. Use the majority. Private Health care in the UK is as low as $20 a month because the State provides a reasonable standard of health care free at the point of use. Even Thatcher increased spending on it.

Depends what kind of coverage you have. I have lots of options with mine.

Canada’s healthcare sucks. People die from not getting treatment soon enough from cancer for one. They have to wait for treatments. That’s not the kind of health care i want. There’s a lot to think about with the healthcare issue. With the current state of the economy and the stock market tanking and all the bailouts, I don’t think Obama’s gonna have a lot of money for healthcare.

Well that is intelligent discourse.

Again the issue at hand is what benefit is there in taking it away, other then lashing out in envy? How does it solve any of the problems we are discussing?

Oh hell, what was I thinking? We should all know that these companies are the paragon of virtue and above reproach. So what if we have to be indentured to them for life so that we can get any required healthcare. We’re but a captive audience who needs their help and besides, they need their perks to maintain their opulent lifestyle. Who are we to stand in their way? Thanks, Dr. Kildare, for showing us that you can squeeze blood out of a turnip–you just have to have a firm grip.

Then i guess doctors shouldn’t whine and cry when they get sued for fucking up. They were just it for the money from the start. If money is their motivation, then taking money from them is the perfect punishment for less then stellar performance.

Ok, then how about Blue Cross Blue Shield. They have a revenue of 300 billion dollars and they gave out CEO bonus of 19 million. The issue of CEO bonuses, greed, whatever does not have a direct link to the problems that we are talking about on a “street” level. Nobody is denying coverage to pay for CEO bonuses, that problem is a more systemic then that. That’s the point I am trying to make. It is class envy and not constructive to solving the problem.

By the way your point on European pharmaceuticals is a good one. How would the european companies survive if they couldn’t make their profits here as you state? I really am trying to educate myself on this stuff.

Psst: Our healthcare sucks, too. We pay more and get less for each dollar spent.

I have yet to be impressed by any American doctor I’ve had. I’ve taken to using Indian or European Doctors here. They are less expensive and actually speak to you and don’t try to get you to take the newest fad drug.

Think people in this country don’t wait for cancer treatment? Think again.

My father died of complications from an operable brain tumor (non-malignant) that should have been operated on 6 months before they finally got around to it – and he had good health insurance. Because the tumor was in a hard to access location, there was only one surgeon who was up to the task – and he was overbooked. So we waited for him, while he several times pushed back my dad’s date of surgery so he could operate on other patients. Waited too long as it turns out.

It is not at all uncommon for people diagnosed with cancer in this country to wait 2 months or longer before their treatment begins. Long waits for treatment are not exclusive to countries with reasonable health care policies.

HRC would have made a fine president. We get third- or fourth-best yet again.

well, i think that is right. I am sure that doctors would be willing to take less payment if they were immune from being sued. that’s part of what makes it difficult for doctors to be in just to help people. they are just trying to help people, they make a mistake and get sued for everything their worth. it’s hard to be charitable in that situation.

I hear ya on this one. My doctor is Korean and I love him. I agree our healthcare costs way too much but i don’t think government healthcare is the answer. They only screw up whatever they are in charge of.

Link please. Cancer patients do not die waiting for treatment. If there is a wait it’s for things that are considered non life threatening like hip replacement. And even then the wait time is much less then it took my insurance company to decide my spinal fusion was necessary. A few weeks compared to YEARS. Then it took even longer to tell me what was covered, then after the surgery was completed and I do mean the next day, they kicked my doctor out of network so they didn’t have to pay for follow up care. I’ve been on my own to recover for six months, developed MRSA, and now have to fight every bloody bill because insurance companies are dicks.

Bobo has waffled all over the place in his health-care positions, so he can just waffle some more, claiming the situation has changed. Look for him to back away from all sorts of promises, including, hopefully, the promise to outlaw all abortion restrictions coming down the pike. The only thing he’s been consistent about is inconsistency. (He apparently told California gays he was against Prop 8, even though he told others he’s anti-same-sex marriage). He wants to look like FDR? National health care, Bobo!

Government versus insurance companies. That’s two bad choices. I would prefer a return to non-profit status for hospitals as a start. If that didn’t work, then try something else. Insurance companies, thouh need some real scrutiny.

I’m sorry to hear that. My mother had cancer too and waited a few weeks for treatment. But I’ve heard of cases in Canada that had to wait four months or more and the patients ended up dying. And I know they come to our country for MRI’s because they don’t have enough machines. I agree our healthcare system needs some fixin the premiums are astronomical.

PS We pay close to $14,000 a year for “good insurance”.

The only thing we need socialize is insurance. The private health care system can remain intact.

Do you live in Canada? My premiums paid by my employer are in excess of 24,000 a year. That is outrageous.

I pay even more. What galls me is that they send me bills years afterwards wanting more money for services I don’t remember getting. When I ask for itemized bills, they fail to send them but do follow up threatening collection agencies. So I either pay, hire a lawyer, or have a mark against my credit. It is a fvcking racket, no more, no less. Anything at this point would be better than the insurance company/physician phalanx aligned against patients.

I still think non-profit status is best for hospitals. The system worked and wasn’t broken so it needed no fixing.

The insurance companies are seeing the handwriting on the wall for their industry. There will be no other AIG-type bailout for the rest of the industry. With job losses, there will be less insured and so it will be the insurance companies’ turn immediately after the big three car companies. Closer review of their operations will be done and all their corrupt practices exposed for the public to see.

By signifying their willingness for universal health care, they may be trying to preempt, or at least getting the program implemented soon enough before they have to beg for a bailout. This economic crisis might have some positive, though unintended, side effects.

The thing that needs to be addressed about non profit status is the mechanism for hospitals to upgrade their technology and make original buys in technology. Taking way a profit motive could impact those actions.

But why do you think BO has no comment now?

NO comment. LOL

Seriously, BO tactically, as much as I disdain anything BO, would be crazy to state a fixed position. And I don’t blame him for ducking the question at this time.

At this point I am resigned to the fact that BO does not and will never posses a principled bone in his body.

Why would I expect the comrade-elect to put his neck out and take a stand?
He won’t, get use to it.

if they are in for the money, why would docotrs take less money if tort reform was passed and they were off the hook. It would be their time to blast away and clean up.

I have ties to Canada. And man, I’m telling ya. They have no worries about getting ill, or going to the emergency room or getting nailed with co-pays and stealth bills months after the supposed service as Ferd stated below. When my canadian friends hear about the crap I go through just to get pain management for a surgery that costs $116,000 and out of pocket expenses of more than $2000, they just shake their heads and laugh. Not to mention, they wouldn’t have fused my back at all up there. They do disc replacement, much cheaper, shorter recovery time and better outlook for physical activity. It’s still experimental down here, which is another way of saying, insurance companies would lose money.

Yea, some of the HMO’s will not cover anything experimental like clincial trials too. I think that is wrong.

They have to make money for the shareholders. Providing health care dollars is only there second reason for being.

They’ve been doing disc replacements in Europe for almost 15 years. The reason the insurance companies won’t cover them is because any person that has chronic disc problems would benefit from them. That is a lot of people. Insurance companies’ profit margins would shrink, bigtime. Not to mention prescription drugs sales for pain management and inflamation would drop. But hey, what’s wrong with letting people suffer just to satisfy the bottem line?

PS. Keep at it LisaB!!!

After becoming a grandpa kite recently, I was BLOWN AWAY to find out that the second they cut the embilicial cord, my granddaughter became a profit center; to the tune of 60k.

The whole birth cost 100,000 dollars. This is so wrong! Sure the cost is freakish, but the fact that MediCal requires that the young parents can’t be supported or living at a relatives to qualify, without Medical going after the relitives for the cost, is insane. One might be able to provide a roof or basic sustanance, but not 60k. Why does it matter where some one lives in order to recieve healthcare? Does not having a stable living situtation have huge impact on the welfare of the newborn?

It does not promote “family values”. Telling a new mom that not only does she have to worry about the health and well being of the baby, she can’t look to the immediate family for support with out involving Medical in the financial affiars of the parent or those relitives who extend their support.

You bet I am interested LisaB.

The current model of healthcare is unsustainable. We must move to a preventative model.

I agree our healthcare costs way too much but i don’t think government healthcare is the answer. They only screw up whatever they are in charge of.

Generally it is Republicans who are bad at running Government. It could be down to the fact that the only Government they like is the one that dictates your bedroom habits.

Socialized medicine can be good IF run properly. Then the private hospitals and insurance companies can stay for those who want luxuries with their treatment. Having a good basic healthcare system for all is far better than a mediocre to luxury one for some.

He has always been anti same sex marriage. He is in favor of Civil Unions.

With trillions being thrown at the Bushbots who destroyed the economy the situation has changed.

It will however take a Democratic President to clear up the mess Republicans caused, as usual. Don’t spend all the surplus the Democratic Presidency will eventually generate as you did this time round.

Really? Obama misspeaks, and therefore he’s a Muslim/ he doesn’t know how many states are in the US? Is that really the most likely explanation? Take a look at the clip. I think there’s a much more logical interpretation: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp.

either way, it doesn’t look good for barky.

i hear you, SB; the insurance companies’ only goal is to take your money every month and give you *absolutely nothing* in return. they think that if they EVER pay out on a claim, they’re being screwed.

Whether you are black or not is not relevant (and of doubt)

Because no AA would dare criticize the chosen one?

Maybe you should edit your moniker a few letters.