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Killing Bin Laden No Special Feat * Open Thread

Obama is trying to hang an award on his wall for the death of Osama Bin Laden. Thing is: It’s always struck me that ANY Commander In Chief would have given the thumbs up to an operation painstakingly planned by the U.S. special forces’ elite. Wouldn’t it have been a no-brainer? Wouldn’t Obama, who had zero military experience, have been dependent on his military advisers? Karl Rove writes:

As for the killing of Osama bin Laden, Mr. Obama did what virtually any commander in chief would have done in the same situation. Even President Bill Clinton says in the film “I hope that’s the call I would have made.” For this to be portrayed as the epic achievement of the first term tells you how bare the White House cupboards are.

The quote is from Rove’s WSJ op-ed, “‘The Road We’ve Traveled’ With Obama,” via Memeorandum.com. Rove critiques Obama’s “17-minute film, ‘The Road We’ve Traveled,’ that previews the Democratic general election narrative.”

Click here to watch all 17 (snore) minutes. Oh wait! First, grab a box of tissues! There’s a beautiful American flag at the beginning, waving above the frenzied crowd of Obamabots crying out for Barack.

Adds Rove:

The film is riddled with other inaccuracies and misleading claims. For example, the United Auto Workers may not have gotten “money” in the bailout, but as an unsecured creditor, the union received a 17.5% ownership interest in General Motors and 55% of Chrysler, while the companies’ bondholders got hosed.

The film asserts that the auto companies “repaid their loans.” But they still owe taxpayers $26.5 billion, and the Treasury Department’s latest report to Congress noted that nearly $24 billion of the bailout money is gone forever. …

This next instance fries me.

Barack Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, in Indonesia


The film includes Mr. Obama’s 2008 claim that the death of his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, from cancer “could have been prevented” if only she “had good, consistent insurance.” But earlier this year, a biography of Dunham by Janny Scott, “A Singular Woman,” revealed that she had health insurance that covered most all her medical bills, leaving only a few hundred dollars a month in deductibles and uncovered costs. For misleading viewers, the Washington Post fact checker awarded this segment of the film “Three Pinocchios.” …

I cannot believe that Obama keeps dragging his dead mother out for every campaign.

Had he been a good son, he would have taken her insurance woes out of her hands and fought for her, while also helping pay for her expenses. After all, Obama already had a Harvard law degree and could have been earning big bucks at a law firm, making more than enough to give his mother freedom from financial worries during her illness. But no. He was too busy building a political resume and schmoozing with the ultra-left insider crowd in Chicago.

There’s no evidence — at least any that I’ve ever seen — that Obama lifted a finger to personally help his mother. All he does is use her as a campaign speech anecdote. For a health care bill that he farmed out to Congress to create. Speaking of which, Rove asserts:

Nothing is said about the centerpieces of last year’s State of the Union—green energy jobs (Solyndra anyone?) and high-speed rail (fizzled). Nada on the president’s promises about how ObamaCare would lower premiums and lower the deficit while allowing people to keep their existing coverage (all untrue).

Let your mom rest in peace, Barack, and stop digging her up every four years.

Get off your duff and get something done yourself. Oh, and quit claiming bragging rights for bin Laden’s death. We all know that the military and intelligence communities did all the planning and work.

  • Popsmoke
  • http://twitter.com/hserecording Home Recording

     Bush had 7+ years to get Bin Laden. He never did. He even said he wasn’t that worried about him. He directed attention towards a stupid baseless war in Iraq instead of focusing attention those who attacked us on 9/11.

    President Obama campaigned on redirecting our focus to Afghanistan and to getting Bin Laden. That’s exactly what he did as Commander in Chief. 

    President Obama succeeded where Bush failed and yet the right wing loons still can’t give him credit.

    It’s been said often … but it needs to be said over and over: Even if Obama cured cancer those on the right would find a way to diminish his accomplishment.

    It’s also extremely important to note that John McCain said he would *NOT* go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden during the 2008 campaign. This is the strategy Obama ran on in 2008 and it’s the strategy he implemented as Commander in Chief. It worked. Give credit where credit is due. To do otherwise is shameful.

  • NoQuarterUSA

    I’ve set the maximum comment depth at 4 so that we don’t end up with really skinny, long replies.  So, once you hit a depth of 4 replies, you’ll need to start a new comment to continue replying. – Bronwyn

  • Popsmoke

    Here is another one for you all… Gas prices… We have not built a new refinery since the 70′s. Expanded yes..built..no… But don’t let that stop the Chinese and Saudis… http://www.chinaconsulatechicago.org/eng/xw/t896439.htm

    Our energy policy has gone from lousy to for shit… We need to become more dependent on our own resources and capabilities which this country was once known for and can still be known for… 

    • PPAA

      Not sure what your point is?

      Demand for gasoline in the U.S. has actually been going down and is expected to continue to go down, particularly given new auto fuel efficiency standards.

      The oil companies have not been building refining capacity because there is no need for it with declining gasoline demand in the U.S. In fact, if you look at the Department of Energy statistics they show the capacity utilization of the refiners we got is falling, meaning we are using the refineries we got even less. The refining business has been a big money losing business. There are some regional needs for refining capacity, but for the most part we have enough. The Keystone pipeline will also likely result in some additional refincing capcity shutdowns in the midwest, as oil that would have been refined their will be refined on the gulf coast.

      In 2011, the United States actually became for the first time a net exporter of gasoline. I suggest you try and understand what the word fungibility means. Oil companies will sell their products to the highest bidder, no matter who the customer is. They will not necessarily sell their gasoline only in America.

      Now given the growth in the Chinese economy and corresponding growth in demand for gasoline, it is not surprising that the Chinese are involved in building new refining capacity.

      Not sure what you are looking for. Do you want government to get more involved? I thought you GOP supporters want private industry to be as free as possible to do what they want? Do you want the government involved in building the refineries you think we need?

      If we have such terrible energy policy than why is oil production at levels not seen for at least the last 11 years, if not since the 1980s? Why has oil production grown the fastest in recent years than in any other country? And why are we producing such record levels of natural gas that the natural gas rig count is dropping dramatically because of the record low price for natural gas? There is an energy boom happening in the U.S., not to mention an ever increasing use of renewables.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        Amazing they can’t or won’t understand that we don’t keep the oil we drill here to sell only in the U.S.  As long as China and India are burning it as fast as they are, we won’t ever see prices as low as they were 10 or 15 years ago.

        • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

          I myself believe that the best way to deal with this is to get off of oil as much as we can.  If we used less of it, we’d still be paying the same price, but, we’d shell out less, since we’d be buying less of it.  My wife and I bought a hybrid 10 years ago.  We can go 500 miles on a tank.  It’s a bother to be paying $3.50 or whatever it is now, but we don’t have to fill up as often, so we’re spending a buttload less than we would be otherwise.

          As kind of an aside, I think it’s both funny and sad that Republicans are dead set on sneering at things like trying to get energy from algae and such.  I can only guess at what they’d have said to Edison 100 years ago, as he tried all kinds of outlandish things.  Some didn’t work; MOST didn’t work.  But once in a while, he’d hit on something spectacular, and it was all because he was willing to try things that seemed outlandish and unlikely.  Outlandish and unlikely sometimes yield the best discoveries of all.  Penecillin came from moldy bread.  What would Gingrich have said about that?  “These pointy headed liberals, they think they’re going to cure sicknesses with moldy bread!  Ha ha!  We all know the only way to cure people is by praying!”

      • Popsmoke
  • Popsmoke

    You have to just love the French!  Neocons will be the death of this planet… http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-03/D9TLMR9G1.htm

  • Popsmoke

    We need to bring our guys home! NOW!! Not in 120 days, end of the year but right now. This is not COIN nor does it win hearts and minds. But what it does do is put big fat bulls-eyes on the backs of all troops. We just do not learn….

    My question is? What commanders needs to be sacked for allowing this? http://www.businessinsider.com/this-whole-line-of-infidel-gear-cant-be-helping-international-relations-in-afghanistan-2012-3

     

  • Popsmoke

    Here is one for you liberals…. By the way, you right wingers? You are
    next! This is just an out of control NYPD Intelligence Unit…..

    http://news.yahoo.com/documents-show-nypd-infiltrated-liberal-groups-081951121.html

     

  • PPAA

    ” the president’s promises about how ObamaCare would lower premiums and lower the deficit while allowing people to keep their existing coverage (all untrue).”

    Too early to talk about impact on premiums and deficit, as the bill does not really come into place until 2014, but there have already been significant achievements.

    * Twenty million women have received preventive services like mammograms and Pap smears without having to pony up co-pays.

    http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/positions/planned-parenthood-hcr-825.htm

    * Expand that to the whole population, and 54 million Americans got preventative services without copays, services that do save lives.

    http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/2012/PreventiveServices/ib.shtml

    * More than 2.5 million young people have insurance, by being able to stay on their parents’ plans until they are 26.

    * Nearly four million seniors saved almost $2.16 billion through discounts for their prescription medications in 2011.

    http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/healthcare/story/2012-03-19/Seniors-see-savings-on-Rx-drugs-under-2010-health-care-law/53621502/1

    * The pre-existing insurance plan (PCIP) has extended insurance to 50,000 formerly uninsured and uninsurable people with pre-existing conditions.

    • Hokma

      “Too early to talk about impact on premiums ”

      No it’s not. Here’s your problem. You don’t have to make a payroll. Everyone who does knows how premiums have escalated on what effects Obamacare already stipulates had and what is anticipated. Some companies have already cut back their offering – particularly to small businesses in anticipation of Obamacare because they cannot financially support those plans anymore.

      Obamacare was set up to shrewdly set up incentives for companies to move away from private insurance and give employees no alternative than government run health insurance.

      Obama loses either way with the U.S. Supreme Court decision. If they rull against the mandate then that effectively ends Obamacare. If they do not, then there will be no better issue for the GOP in the Fall.

  • Dbb3

    Excuse me, Bronwyn, haven’t you and Larry been telling us for nearly a year that Obama refused to green light the OBL mission and the top brass overruled him – all based on an anonymous blogger and his self-proclaimed super secret White House source? And now you’re saying he did order it but it was a risk free slam dunk?

  • Dbb3

    Excuse me, Bronwyn, haven’t you and Larry been telling us for nearly a year that Obama refused to green light the OBL operation and was overruled by the top brass? – based entirely on the claims of an anonymous blogger and his super secret White House source. What’s the matter, have the grandiose implications of these claims become a bit much – that the nightmare scenario of a military coup in Seven Days in May has come to pass? Do tell.

    • BronwynsHarbor

      Uh, I have no clue what you’re talking about.  Come up with an example + link, and then we can talk about it.  

      Unless you’re referring to Steve’s series on a White House source … in which case, Steve made it absolutely clear that readers should keep an open mind about the source’s revelations because they couldn’t be independently verified. 

      That goes for your allegations — first, you allege that it was I and Larry.  Wrong.  Then you allege that we bought the claims — which neither Larry or I did, or didn’t do.  Instead, the actual post was written by Steve, who wisely warned readers to be skeptical about the interesting, but unproven, material.  

      Chill.  Who knows.  One of these days, you maybe will actually find something real to go after us for.

  • Hokma

    Found the perfect campaign advisor for Obama, although he already seems pretty good at it . . . .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkYNBwCEeH4

  • arturo_ui

    “It’s always struck me that ANY Commander In Chief would have given the
    thumbs up to an operation painstakingly planned by the U.S. special
    forces’ elite. Wouldn’t it have been a no-brainer?”

    Except that the prior two commanders-in-chief did NOT give the thumbs up to such an operation, so…no, it was obviously not a no-brainer.

    Especially considering the hundreds of things that could have gone wrong and gotten a bunch of American troops killed, or left captured, or fighting their way out of Pakistan, launching an international incident or brand new war.

    • Popsmoke

      “Especially considering the hundreds of things that could have gone wrongand gotten a bunch of American troops killed, or left captured, or fighting their way out of Pakistan, launching an international incident or brand new war.”

      Yeah just ask Jimmy Carter with Operation Eagle Claw….

  • Popsmoke

     While you all are debating who had insurance and who did not…. We continue to loose civil liberties….

    New counterterrorism guidelines permit data on U.S. citizens to be held longer … http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-counterterrorism-guidelines-would-permit-data-on-us-citizens-to-be-held-longer/2012/03/21/gIQAFLm7TS_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines

  • PPAA

    Brownyn,

    Taking-out Obama is a no-brainer if you are willing to accept the policial fall-out if the operation goes horribly wrong in a sensitive foreign country.

    What if it was the wrong address? What if the helicopters crashed and killed all personnel? What if it was a trap?  etc. etc.

    Yeah.. Clinton said he “hoped” it would have been the call he would have made, which tells you it was no easy call to make, if Clinton is not even sure he would have made that call.

    “Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates called the raid against Osama bin Laden a “gutsy call” — “one of the most courageous” he’s seen a president make — because the U.S. had only circumstantial evidence indicating the Al Qaeda leader was at the compound in Pakistan.”

    “I had real reservations about the intelligence,” Gates, who earlier led the Central Intelligence Agency, said. “But it was the best information we had since probably 2001.”

    ***

    The bondholders in the auto bail-out did not get ”hosed” at all.  The bondholders were very lucky the government stepped in when they did, as if it would have went into a liquidation, they would have certainly gotten much much less than they did. In fact, bondholders made out quite well, all things considered. The taxpayer supported their ass, so they should be kissing Obama’s ass.

    The auto companies do not owe the government a penny. They paid back their loans. What the government does have is an equity ownership in the two automakers. Very different. If the government did not make this investment in these two auto companies the cost to taxpayers of a full blown bankruptcy would have been much higher. Now there is a chance that that government gets all of its money back, depending on where GM’s stock price goes.

    ***

    Rove speculating about some unauthorized biography on Obama’s mother. Give me a break. Complete garbage.

    ***

    Obama has invested more in green or renewable energies than any President before. We are going to significantly increase our energy from renewables over the coming years. That is the future and not “drill baby drill”.

    There has been significant investment in transportation through the stimulus bill and more would be coming for things like high speed rail if congress would pass a Transportation bill.

    The largest part of the video actually talks about healthcare reform. No one promised lower premiums, particularly at this stage when the bill does not even roll-out until 2014. The CBO now says the savings from healthcare reform will be $50 billion more than expected.

  • foxyladi14

     I cannot believe that Obama keeps dragging his dead mother out for every campaign.

    oh I can.  lol

  • Anthony_1

    disqus acting up……

  • Anthony_1

    TRIED TO REPLY TO BRONWYN’S RESPONSE TO EAR TWISTING ABOVE.

    will try to paste again
    ***************************

    Im sure it was figuratively, not literally.  

    Fact remains that Preadient Jarrett Valerie Jarret convinced him to leave it alone. There were two other opportunities to take OBL out (a couple of months before), and Jarret flexed her muscles to stop him from going in

    • arturo_ui

       ”Fact remains that Preadient Jarrett Valerie Jarret convinced him
      to leave it alone. There were two other opportunities to take OBL out (a
      couple of months before), and Jarret flexed her muscles to stop him
      from going in”

      Wow, that is some weak sauce.  Really?  That’s all you have?  That the operation got POSTPONED a bit?  What, does that also mean it DOESN’T COUNT in the end?

      You guys are just hilarious.

  • beachnan

     Sorry Marge, didn’t see your great comment, till after I posted mine.  We are definitely on the same page.

  • Flop_Flipper

    The Obama Reality Show would be Cult Comedy at it’s finest if it wasn’t a tragedy.

  • RPL29

    Regarding the killing of OBL, those of us on the right have been having a little bit of fun at the administration’s expense. After VP Biden stated that this was the greatest military feat in the last 500 years one of the admins at the USNI blog began compiling a list of the 500 most audacious military acts in the last 500 years. They are inculding plans by both the good guys and the bad guys (9/11, the Nazis, the attack on Pearl Harbor, etc.), and they are soliciting reader submissions for inclusion. After the list is compiled they will be ranked in order, maybe even with a bracketology. Just fyi.

  • Retired_from_SPOnaj

    Regarding bin Laden, the very first sentence of the Fleet Marine Force Manual says, “A commander is responsible for everything that his command does or fails to do.”  I believe that this simple maxim should apply to the Commander-in-Chief, as well.  Pay particular attention to “…does or fails to do.”

    Regarding “The Road We’ve Traveled With Obama,”  Hollywood is in the business of telling fictitious stories in a compelling, believable manner that is designed to elicit an emotional response.  “The Road We’ve Traveled…” is just another Hollywood production of compelling fiction.  I won’t loose any more sleep over it than I lost over Forrest Gump.

    • PPAA

      Gates said that taking out Bin Ladne was one of the most gutsiest and courageous calls he has ever seen a President make.

      Certainly beats Bush’s “Mission Accomplished”.

      • HARP2

         Most in 500 years………Ha Ha Ha

  • Anonymous

    Here’s a good one:

    Obama On Trayvon Martin Case: ‘If I Had A Son, He’d Look Like Trayvon’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/obama-trayvon-martin_n_1375083.html

    • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

      Well, duh.  Of course his son would look like Martin.  And he’d be just as much at risk for some idiot shooting him for walking while black.  Are you seriously disputing this?  Jeez…

      • Anthony_1

        Excuse me, Ass-clown, but even Martin’s parents went out of their way to stress that this was “not a black/white thing as much is it is a right/wrong thing”
        http://mg.co.za/article/2012-03-22-teens-shooting-its-not-a-black-and-white-thing/

        My point is that “The Changeling” always jumps on to any bandwagon that will further exacerbate racial tension, whether it is founded in fact or not.

        Follow the link and read it before shooting your fool mouth off.

        • DianaLC

          Do you think we’ll be subjected to a beer summit again?

          • Anthony_1

            I hope so.  Would love to see Biden get a little soused and shoot his mouth off!  Gotta love that guy…

          • KenoshaMarge

            One can hope not. The assclown in the White House has embarassed this country enough!

        • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

          Well, it still is a “black-white” thing.  Young black men are at much higher risk of getting hassled or worse for being “in the wrong neighborhood” or for “looking suspicious”.  It happens every day.  Thankfully, it doesn’t always end up with some bonehead shooting the black guy, but it’s needless and humiliating and wrong, and very much racial.  We have a long, long way to go in this country on race.  The writer below me boliquely brings up the Henry Louis Gates thing from a few years ago.  I think she meant to sneer at the meeting Obama had with gates and the policeman who arrested him, but without meaning to, she proves my point: Gates got himself arrested on his own porch for being a black man who dared to mouth off at a white policeman.  If you don’t think this is still a problem, then read this:
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-be-black-in-america-/2012/03/22/gIQAEKr4TS_story.html

          • Anthony_1

            So WAPO trumps the words coming straight from the lips of his parents???

            Did you follow the link?  Or are you only interested in playing the race card every time you can?

            The shooter was Hispanic, btw, so it has nothing to do with white v black.

            As far as the Beer Summit goes, the entire country sneered at the Gates Beer Blast, and racism had nothing to do with it.  

            Your hero (as usual) jumped the gun, and made a big deal out of nothing because he had to keep those racist fires burning.

            Gates got arrested because he was seen climbing into the window of a private home, and didn’t show ID when asked.  It was his own arrogance that got him arrested, dick-tard, not the color of his skin.

            If you weren’t such a pathetic suck-up, you’d be hilarious!

            You’re just fucking hopeless…

            • win43

              “so it has nothing to do with white v black”

              I agree that this has nothing to do with “white.” The shooter’s race isn’t relevant.

              But if you don’t think it matters that the victim was black, you’re an idiot. You’re not a racist — you’re just an idiot.

              • Anthony_1

                So if the shooter’s race isn’t relevant, then how can you insist that the victim’s was?

                And I’m the idiot?  That’s the pot calling the kettle black (now go ahead – try to make something of that comment)

                • win43

                  Because to many people (white, Hispanic, whatever) a black kid walking down the street is more “suspicious” than a white kid walking down the street. And if you think that’s not true… you’re an idiot.

                  It’s not “white v. black.” It’s just… the reality of black. No “versus” required.

                  • Anthony_1

                    There you go again, Pot.

              • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

                The guy has a serious case of white privilege; he’s never going to get it.

                • win43

                  What do you mean?? He was there on that bridge in Selma, by God!!!

                  LOL

                • Anthony_1

                  Is that the Obama talking point for 2012?  ”White Privilege”

                  Keep talking…

            • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

              Yes, I read the link.  And it is a racial thing as much as you wish it weren’t.  Zimmerman is half white.  Even if he were 100% Hispanic, the point is that black men get hassled as a matter of course.  And as for Gates, the dude was in his own house.  He had no need to show anybody any i.d.  And it wasn’t arrogance, it was justifiable anger at being hassled in his own house.  Hell, I’ve locked myself out and had to climb in a window; nobody called the police on me, but I’m a pasty white dude.  But when a black guy climbs into his own house?  Hell, that can’t be HIS house, he must be a thief.  That’s the point I’m making.  Too many people look at black men and see somebody “up to no good”.  That’s what happened to Gates and it’s what happened to Martin.  Race still hangs over the U.S. like a pall, and it seems like every few weeks we get demonstration.  Sometimes we’re lucky and nobody gets hurt.  This time we got a deadly demonstration.

              • Anthony_1

                You really are hopeless, and I’m not going to prolong this exchange any more than I have to.

                When the MSM starts calling Obama “white” because his mother was white, then I might have to reconsider, but until then, I don’t.

                re: Gates – Gates was NOT inside his home.   He was breaking in.

                I’m white, and I had to break into a house I owned upstate because I left the keys home, and had another set inside the house.  

                The police did come, they asked for ID, and I showed it to them gladly.  I was relieved to know that in my absence, if someone tried to break in they would be stopped by local law enforcement.

                Unlike Gates, I didn’t think that I was being targeted because of the color of my skin (one of the officers that questioned me was black)

                As someone who actually marched all throughout the South in the ’60s for MLK, I totally resent it when people like you insist that racism is alive and well in the United States.

                The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, and we were all cheering that.  Sure, people of ALL colors will continue to be racists (see “New Black Panthers”), but that doesn’t mean that there’s been no progress or resolution.

                Obama jumped on that during his campaign (as if calling Hillary and Bill Clinton racists wasn’t in itself a racial slur) and has done his best to keep mindless lemmings like yourself (and win43) fanning the bogus flames.

                I’m done, and you’re finished

                • HARP2

                   Obama is now white black.

                  Which neighborhood can he hang out in.

                  • Anthony_1

                    Maybe he can hang at Upshur’s house?

                • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

                  I don’t care if you marched.  Racism is alive here, even if you don’t see it.  I don’t see a lot of it myself, but–and here’s the thing–we’re white, so it doesn’t happen to us.  That’s the big difference, brains.

                  And Gates didn’t have to show anybody anything.  He was in his own house, but the cop wouldn’t let it go.  He should have just left and it would have been over, but he got his back up and kept baiting Gates until Gates lost his cool and stepped outside, then arrested him on a trumped up charge of “disturbing the peace”–at least I believe that’s what it was.

                  And hooray for you–you marched.  Goody.  Too bad you let yourself believe your responsibility to care what happens to black Americans has been discharged.  I don’t feel that way.  Racism is still a big problem (you might notice I didn’t say nothing has gotten better), and we all need to work on it.  For my part, I try to be openminded about when I say or do something insensitive, and then learn from that, and try not to do it again.  It doesn’t excuse me that I didn’t “mean” to say or do something racist.  Sometimes I do it out of ignorance: I just didn’t know that some word or phrase has another meaning or connotation.  So maybe I get a pass the first time.  But once I know, then it’s up to me to learn from that.  I try to.  And, really, a little sensitivity is no big burden to me.  It’s a whole lot less of a burden than the cloud of latent racism that hangs over every black American’s head.

                  Try opening your eyes to what black Americans deal with as a matter of course.

                  And for the record, Obama never called the Clintons racist; he said they were playing games, trying to win the votes of racists.  I think they were looking for racist votes.  That isn’t the worst thing anybody’s ever done, but i don’t think it was worthy of them.

                  But for the love of God, calling people out for their racism or cynical use of racial divisions for their own ends is not in itself racist.  It really shows some serious white privilege (look it up if you don’t know what that is) to cry that black Americans are the REAL racists.  Grow up, for God’s sake.  Getting your feelings mildly hurt in no way stacks up against getting shot for being in the “wrong” neighborhood.  Jeez…

                • win43

                  LOL, you marched in the 60′s. Yeah, I bet you did. All throughout the South, no doubt. Completely believable — nobody would ever lie about that while trying to say a racially motivated killing wasn’t racially motivated. Sure thing, we all believe you.

                  • win43

                    In 50 years, idiots on the internet will still be claiming “I marched with MLK!”

                    • Anthony_1

                      “for”, not “with”.

                      Get it straight – you’re supposed to be smart, remember?

                  • Anthony_1

                    “for”, not “with”.

                    Get it straight – you’re supposed to be smart, remember?

              • FLDemFem

                 ”Zimmerman is half white”.. Well, so is Obama.

          • FormerLiberal9

             Sorry but I have been branded as a Racist as have many here on this blog by liberals like yourself. If you truly believe we are racist why do you think we care about the “black-white” thing.

            I have excepted the label “racist” since being stabbed in the back so often with the term by my former party. Here is what being a racist means to me Blacks are, as far as I am concerned, on their own. The civil rights movement has lost a lot of friends who will now focus their attention on other important issues.

            • arturo_ui

               ”Here is what being a racist means to me Blacks are, as far as I am concerned, on their own.”

              You are correct.  That sentiment of yours, that Blacks are now on their own, is indeed racist.

        • beachnan

           That is his goal.  Apparently, one of Obama’s press guys had to ask the NBC guy to ask the question.  Everything the man does is politically calculated.  Acting as a President to all the people is not his concern.

          • Anthony_1

            Sometimes I wonder if being POTUS means anything at all to him.  Seems like prancing around in front of adoring and unbelievably stupid crowds (getting smaller every day) is all that matters.

          • BronwynsHarbor

            Any black/white racial crisis will benefit Obama during the election year, and he knows it.

            Just so we’re clear:  I find what happened to Trayvon Martin appalling and tragic, and I hope that Zimmerman can be brought to justice. It looks to me like Zimmerman had a big fantasy about becoming a hero for his community watch gig — didn’t he call 911 almost 50 times in the preceding months?  

            He was looking for a situation to act out his fantasy — his problem is that the situation he chose was a poor one, and caused the murder of an innocent kid.

        • FormerLiberal9

           I don’t often like what Obama says of does but I thought he handled the question asked of him very well. He showed he actually has a heart in relating to the young mans parents and explained why the Federal government, through the Justice Department, had to look into and investigate the matter. IMO he didn’t try to arouse racial tensions at all with his statement. Rather it seemed to me he was calming down what could be a rather explosive situation.

          • beachnan

             Oh please.  It was a set up.  Obama has his guys out there stirring things up, and then likes to swoop in, like he’s the quiet voice of reason.  Not buying it.  By the way, why does he always have to inject himself into the conversation–this time by saying that if HE had a son, he would look like the victim.

          • beachnan

             Oh please.  It was a set up.  Obama has his guys out there stirring things up, and then likes to swoop in, like he’s the quiet voice of reason.  Not buying it.  By the way, why does he always have to inject himself into the conversation–this time by saying that if HE had a son, he would look like the victim.

          • FLDemFem

            If Trayvon had been white, it would be a whole different story. Holder is only interested in justice for “his people”, not anyone else. He has actually said that white on black crime will be prosecuted by Justice but not black on white crime. So don’t give Obama credit for racial justice, he is in campaign mode and this situation is very useful to him. Echoes of the meme from 2008 about how the “other presidents” didn’t look like him. Now he is wanting people to imagine this kid as his son and gain political capital from it. It’s disgusting.

            • arturo_ui

               ”Holder is only interested in justice for “his people”, not anyone else.
              He has actually said that white on black crime will be prosecuted by
              Justice but not black on white crime.”

              When did Eric Holder actually say such a thing?

    • Hokma

      There seems to be more to this story than was rushed into print.

      Apparently there was a witness who has stated that there was a fight between Zimmerman and Martin. The witness saw Zimmerman at the bottom and Zimmerman came away with a bloody face which was coorborated by police reports.

      http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

      If true, just how long do you think it will be before Obama/Sharpton/Jackson issue an apology to Zimmerman? Of course we are still waiting for Sharpton’s apology to the Brawley’s accuser, to the Jewish community of Crown Heights Brooklyn, and to the three lacrosse students at Duke University.

      Here’s a concept. How about innocent until proven guilty.

  • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

    This is such crap.  Rove cut off the first few words of what Clinton said.  What he said was that if he had had to choose what to do, “I hope that’s the call I would have made.”  Two words, only two words, and they’re small words, true, but they kind of change the meaning, don’t they?  Assuming you didn’t already know this and weren’t willfully lying–and I know that’s a big assumption–then you should be smart enough to know not to believe anything Karl Rove says without looking into it thoroughly.  So you’re either dumb or a liar.  Neither flatters you.

    • win43

      Welcome to NQ. You just have to try and have some fun with it.

      • HARP2

         Do you mean like Mitt saying he didn`t care about the unemployed ?

        • Popsmoke

           You mean Mitt saying, not worried about the poor…. We should have a gaffe meter for both Santorum and Romney…..

    • BronwynsHarbor

      As soon as I learned about it, I changed it.  Because accuracy matters.

      P.S.  How long is your shift? Tell the next Obamabot that we’re keeping an eye on the ‘bots who hijack threads, including your comments in this thread.

      • Anthony_1

        Looks like the new shift has begun.  Loser “win43′ is here.  Guess PA should be showing up shortly

        • win43

          I can’t decide if the fiction that I’m paid to do this is more entertaining than the fiction that you marched with MLK, or not.

          • Anthony_1

            Many of my generation did, and we’re proud of what we accomplished.  

            And you? What have you done?  Nothing, I’m sure, except to carry water for an empty suit with a racist agenda.You can parrot the “white = racist” meme all you want, but it serves only to underscore your own stupidity

            • win43

              LOL… you know how I know you didn’t march with MLK, other than your incredible obliviousness re: Trayvon Martin?

              To have marched with MLK, you’d have to be about 70 years old now.

              You use html formatting in your comments.

              You said have said “dude” and “true dat” in comments on this site (easy to check, turns out).

              You tried to upload an animated gif once.

              Look, man… you and I both know that you’re redditing in another tab right now. You weren’t born when MLK was marching. It does not take a genius to tell that you’re not 70 (or 60, if you want to lie about marching as a teenager).

              You had fun trying, though.

              • Anthony_1

                You don’t know a damned thing, as swipe.

                Do you think people become brain dead after 30?

                Those of us who were engaged stay engaged.  Unlike phonies who try to pass themselves off as lawyers, like yourself.

                Clearly, your effort on behalf of OFA has you drunk on your own perfume, but sooner or later, the stink of it is going to get to you

                • win43

                  True dat, grandpa. True dat indeed.

        • Wisewoman2

          I concur with all your comments.  As a black, 66 year old southern female who also marched with Dr. King I too am distressed at the jump on the race bandwagon.   There is another delicate issue that is going on in the black community.  Unlike in the past when blacks were targeted and sometimes killed because of fighting against racial injustice (MLK, local preachers, marchers, 3 civil right workers, etc.)  good young black men are baring the brunt of years of out of control thuggery, gang banging and lawlessness on the part of bad young black men.  I am not condemning or trying to make anything the fault of the victim in this case.  I am not escusing the perpertrator either.  I am saying that people are frightened senseless, most of the time for no reason and this is a very dangerous state of affairs in this country.  The situation has gotten so bad and so out of hand that no one seems to know how to fix it.  The truth of the matter is that blacks are frightened too.  Example:  Last year 2 young blacks attempted to break into an elderly man’s house.  He shot through his door thinking he had merely frightened them away.   The next morning when he opened the door he found one of the dead teenagers on his door step.  On leaving my small business I had my purse snatched in my carport after exiting my car.  It was one of the few times I did not have my gun in my hand because I was moving books from my car to my husband’s truck otherwise  I may have shot the young man.

          • Anthony_1

            Thanks, Wisewoman2.

            I’ll never regret what we all had to go through to make things better, but there are times when I wonder if the lack of respect coming from people like win43  and upshur  for the accomplishment somehow diminishes the result of our efforts.

            I think what adds to the pervasive fear you mentioned is that it has been politicized by a POTUS who has used his father’s ethnicity to further his own agenda. Dangerously so.

            Re: the stories you shared (and thanks for those examples), I’m sure that the man you mentioned would’ve most likely shot through the door if the burglars were white.  I don’t think he thought “Oh – there’s a couple of black kids – let me blow them away!”.

            When your home, property (as in your case getting  your purse snatched), or safety is being threatened, race has nothing to do with it.  Except for maybe now…..

            Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and your story.

            • win43

              You know… there’s a special place in hell for people like you. You’re faking solidarity with people who lived through something you didn’t. You’re lying, and taking advantage of their credibility, to… what? Win a stupid argument on the internet?

              You’ve gone beyond shameless and amusing. This seems almost evil to me. Eww.

              • Anthony_1

                Special place in hell for people like me?  LOL!

                Your slanderous accusations are going a little too far, and you can look to your dusty law books to see what can happen because of that.
                 
                Keep going, “Lawyer”.  You’re just getting yourself in deeper and deeper.

                • win43

                  You want “libelous” there.

                  And I’d be fascinated to hear your theory of a defamation claim based on damage to the reputation of your (anonymous) online handle.

                  You slimy liar, you.

          • arturo_ui

             ”As a black, 66 year old southern female who also marched with Dr. King I too am distressed at the jump on the race bandwagon. ”

            I think I’m going to open all my comments from now on with “As a black, 66 year old southern female who also marched with Dr. King” and then just go from there.  I could be talking about the weather, Cheetohs, it don’t matter.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        If anything, you made it worse.  You changed Clinton’s quote within Rove’s piece without noting that you did so.  You made Rove seem like he wasn’t lying about what Clinton said.  That isn’t true; he left those two words out, and changed the meaning of Clinton’s words.  If you want to be open about it, you should run Rove’s quote as Rove wrote it, and then run the whole quote afterwards.

      • PPAA

        Harbor,

        If you cannot take the heat with your posts, then stop posting them for the world to read. Censorship because you cannot deal with the criticism that comes with your highly inflamatory comments is so lame. You can dish it, but you cannot take it. Typical.

        There are plenty of NQbots who make far more comments on these posts, but I guess if you do not follow the NQ party line there is a double standard.

        Rove was a lying bastard for taking Clinton completely out of context in his WSJ piece. And now Harbor corrects Rove’s WSJ lie in his own piece. Very funny stuff.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        I want to ask you something: Don’t you care about ethical reporting?  You can’t change somebody’s quote without acknowledging it.  You changed Rove’s piece–which you were quoting–without acknowledging that you were changing it.  This is the same thing Rove did to Clinton’s quote by lopping the first two words.  Are you going to acknowledge what Rove did or cover for him?  Jeez, do the right thing already…

      • arturo_ui

         ”As soon as I learned about it, I changed it.  Because accuracy matters.”

        I’m curious, Bronwyn, did you get the Rove quote directly from the WSJ column he wrote, and only from that column?  Or did you read about it elsewhere, from, say, Memeorandum?  Because if you read it elsewhere, the overwhelming side of the coverage was on Rove’s deceptive edit of Clinton’s quote: the one you originally ran with.

        My point is, it would have been extremely difficult for you not to have already known about Rove’s editing by the time you first published this post.  By publishing the first, lying version, it is hard to believe you weren’t just trying to do what Rove did: deceive your readers.

    • FormerLiberal9

      I’m sorry but I don’t get your point.  I don’t see how those two words really change the meaning of Clinton’s statement that much.  Perhaps you could elucidate.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        If Clinton had said, “That’s the call I would have made,” then he’s making Rove’s point, that killing bin Laden was no big deal; it was what anybody would have done in Obama’s place.  If he says, “I HOPE [my emphasis] that’s the call I would have made,” (which is what he DID say), then he’s saying that it WASN’T something anybody would have done; some people might have balked at giving the order.  It’s kind of a big difference.

        • FLDemFem

           Apparently, Obama did balk at giving the order. He went off to play golf, had to be retrieved from the golf course and had to be pressured into giving the order. Sounds like balking to me.

          • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

            Link?

      • arturo_ui

         ”I don’t see how those two words really change the meaning of Clinton’s statement that much.”

        You have got to be kidding.

  • Anonymous

    “I cannot believe that Obama keeps dragging his dead mother out for every campaign.”

    She’ll be voting in the GE.

    Several times

    • http://www.facebook.com/mary.cusack Mary Cusack

       just like my mother who passed away. DIE HARD Democrat

      • Anthony_1

        oh my god…….  that’s funny 

  • Anonymous

    If the Republicans are smart, the first thing they need to do is start hammering Obama on each one of his lies each time he tells a new one.  Clinton was successful in his campaigns because his people jumped immediately on each accusation by his opponent and didn’t let it fester in the public’s mind (such as it is).
    It should be easy to make Obama appear to be the fool which he truly is.  Use his own words against him, refute the numbers he fudges to get the story he wants, on oil reserves and capabilities in the US, for example.  Hammer, hammer, hammer until the people realize what he is and more importantly, what he isn’t.

  • Anonymous

    If the Republicans are smart, the first thing they need to do is start hammering Obama on each one of his lies each time he tells a new one.  Clinton was successful in his campaigns because his people jumped immediately on each accusation by his opponent and didn’t let it fester in the public’s mind (such as it is).
    It should be easy to make Obama appear to be the fool which he truly is.  Use his own words against him, refute the numbers he fudges to get the story he wants, on oil reserves and capabilities in the US, for example.  Hammer, hammer, hammer until the people realize what he is and more importantly, what he isn’t.

    • Anonymous

       Right on!

    • KenoshaMarge

      There isn’t enough time between now and November to hammer Oblahblah on each on of his lies. Maybe just some/most of them?

    • beachnan

       I’m not sure if  there is enough time in the day to refute all the tales Obama tells.  You are right though, we need to try.  Can’t count on MSM to do their job.

      • wylrae

        Maybe just focus of those that were/are way over the top.  On second thought, I guess most of his lies have been of that type.

      • BronwynsHarbor

        Good points, Beachnan.  Most important: It is up to each of us to spread the refutations because we can’t count on the MSM to do so. 

         Take Larry’s excellent — and original — research into the MSM’s lies about low voter turnout.  Finally, the WaPo has written an article, but will it die there?  I’m skeptical. I doubt that the rest of the MSM will stop lying about GOP low voter turnout.I think we each need to comment at every blog we visit and tweet others — whatever we can do to spread the word.

  • Anonymous

    Good article. 

  • Anonymous

    Good article. 

  • Anonymous

    KenoshaMarge
    I can’t watch even Tom Hanks reruns because I can’t separate the character he is playing from the anti-mormon left wing nut that I know him to be personally.

  • Anonymous

    KenoshaMarge
    I can’t watch even Tom Hanks reruns because I can’t separate the character he is playing from the anti-mormon left wing nut that I know him to be personally.

    • Anonymous

      Except for “Forrest Gumpf” I never thought he was all that much. Now I think he’s an asshole no matter what part he’s playing. People who dress up and play pretend for a living, and are seriously overpaid for doing it, shouldn’t tell people who live in the real world anything.

  • Anonymous

    If the Republicans have the sense God gave a goat, they will hammer Obama for exposing the SEALs in his zeal to take credit for the OBL death. Because he brought them into the public eye, literally, many of them are dead today. If he had simply said that covert US forces had done the job instead of literally dragging the SEALs into the limelight, the team that got killed in Afghanistan would probably still be alive. Instead, the Commander in Chief painted a big fat target on their backs. Shameful.

    Someone should explain to Obama what classified means, and then explain that leaking classified information is a crime.

  • Anonymous

    Credit for everything good, no responsibility for anything bad and lies about most everything else. Tom Hanks should be ashamed of himself for participating in such balderdash.

  • Anonymous

    Preach it!  I am so very sick about the way O is ALWAYS in lying campaign mode, using anyone and everyone from his past and usually then throwing them under the bus, or reviving them zombie style to use them again when he feels his braindead (PPAA type) followers will never check the facts and using them all over again.  (–ooh that almost sounds like necrophilia).

    Thank heavens there are some who know enough not to believe a liar.  Thank heavens there are some of us who know that O went into the ObL assassination trembling after being pulled off the golf course.

    And those of us who worked in the Hillary campaign already had a Ph D in the ways O used and abused women, including his mother. 

    • Anonymous

       Obama and the big lie?

      For a definition of the “big lie” see this link:

      http://maverickvoice.com/big-ideas/biglie/

      Then you can decide if this is a tactic used by Obama.

    • Anonymous

      “O went into the ObL assassination trembling after being pulled off the golf course.”

      Heard that (at Hillary’s urging) Panetta went to the golf course, grabbed him by the ear and twisted it…

      • BronwynsHarbor

        Seriously?  If true, … I’m speechless. 

        • win43

          “Seriously?”

          Do you think it’s an actual possibility that the Secretary of Defense walked onto a golf course and twisted the President’s ear? 

          Your fantasy world gets more fantastical by the day.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dolly-Cain/100002303813490 Dolly Cain

            Let me tell you something. I have had it with you.  I too grew up during the civil rights era.  I participated. I’m also a veteran. Do not reply to me and leave these people alone. You are a lying scumbag SOB just like the idiot you worship.  My ancestors survived slavery and we don’t scare easily.

          • PPAA

            They truly live in a fantasy world.

            • Kickhimtothekerb

              Well there’s one thing, PPAA would be too damn lazy to march
              with anyone….it’s too busy marching to its own gong!
              Yea such a fantasy world
              it really lives in!

        • beachnan

          Bronwyns-please stop the usual suspects from hijacking all the threads.  They are taking over NQ.  The article you brought up by Rove was great.  He should have just titled it “Obama Lies”.   By the way, so do his supporters,  as Win43,  Upshur, and PPAA keep spinning and spouting their bs.   If Anthony and Wisewoman say they marched with MLK,  I believe them and yet, they were are called liars by Win and Upshur.  I don’t know about anyone else here,  but I am tired of their relentless attacks and Obama spin against many of the posters here.  

          • Anthony_1

            Thanks, beachnan, but I figured out why the bots got their little panties in such a bunch.  

            It wasn’t about marching for civil rights as much as it was pointing out that Obama is jumping on the racist bandwagon with the Trayvon Martin story that I linked.Right now, Chrissy McTIngle is fawning and slobbering all over The Changeling about it.Guess pointing out the obvious hubris of this POTUS to make himself the center of everything was too much for them.(Obama On Trayvon Martin Case: ‘If I Had A Son, He’d Look Like Trayvon’)
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/obama-trayvon-martin_n_1375083.html

            • Anthony_1

              OMG-

              Speaking of that, just caught this at Hillaryis44:

              Obamination Anniversary: Corpse Of Trayvon Martin Abused By Barack Obama To Hide From Heathcare Scam Anniversary

              http://www.hillaryis44.org/

          • Popsmoke

            Bronwyns…

            To ban anyone because of their views (as long as they are following the site rules) is just as bad a violating someone civil rights. If folk do not have the patience to either respond or even disregard the postings then its really those who are the issue. Silencing speech is something that NQ does not want to be known for….

            Regardless if any of us think that Win43,  Upshur, and PPAA are one tree short of a hammock. They have been rather cheeky one tree hammocks. As long as the rules are followed I am for keeping the cheeky trolls…

            • BronwynsHarbor

              Popsmoke — Not to worry. Larry has a very sensible view and believes strongly in freedom of speech. Personally, I draw the line when the ‘bots hijack a thread.