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Specter on Santorum (Man on Dog?) * Open Thread

In a February debate, Mitt Romney criticized Rick Santorum for twice endorsing Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania’s liberal GOP senator, despite primary challenges by conservative Pat Toomey. In 2009 Specter dumped the GOP and in 2010 the new Democrat cast the 60th vote needed to pass Obamacare.

Both Santorum and Specter have lost their seats as Pennsylvania’s U.S. Senators, Santorum in 2007 to conservative Dem Bob Casey and Specter in 2011 to the persistent Pat Toomey. After his loss, Santorum played the lobbying game but suddenly, as St. Ricky, he is eschewing the D.C. rackets he played for decades. And Specter has written a candid book, “Life Among the Cannibals: A Political Career, a Tea Party Uprising, and the End of Governing As We Know It,” out March 27th. From a C-Span interview last night:

I know Rick Santorum very well, I worked with him for 12 years in the Senate, I helped him win his election back in 1994. In August his campaign was in the dumps and I gave him my organization, gave him my people, campaigned for him and helped him win. We had a collegial relationship, worked together for Pennsylvania …

But when he’s running for president it’s a different matter. Here you have his views – he doesn’t believe women being in the workforce, he doesn’t believe in contraception, he thinks that in the gay issue that it’s man-on-dog, he talks about bestiality, he criticizes very sharply the John Kennedy speech, famous speech in Houston, separation of church and state … next Santorum’s likely to attack Jefferson, who knows what’s next? I urge Rick to have some unexpressed ideas but he’s very dedicated to a very extreme position and I don’t think that’s right for America.

(Read more in Politico’s article, “Specter says Santorum ‘extreme,’ recalls Newt girlfriends.”)

Ready for some more fun Specter quotes? Huffington Post reveals more in “Arlen Specter’s Memoir: The Five Steamiest Passages.” Here are some samples:

Arlen Specter

Ted Kennedy In The Hot Tub: “I was in the whirlpool at the Senate gym in 2008, recovering from Hodgkin’s, when Ted Kennedy came over and climbed into the bath. Kennedy was one of the Senate’s giants, in many ways. It was as though a gigantic walrus had plunged into the sea, causing the level to swell. I’d never seen two men in the whirlpool before, but the tub was big enough for two or more. There was a sign that you had to shower before entering. I hadn’t checked that out with Kennedy, but I had neither an objection nor compunction about his coming into the bath. We chatted.” (p. 40)

Decline Of Senate Camaraderie: “Sometimes courtesy and camaraderie waned, even in the gym. Once, during lengthy waits for massages while we used a temporary gym in the Dirksen Building, I was walking undressed to the last table. Another senator, also naked, walked briskly, perhaps at a slight run, and slipped in ahead of me. That was something that senators just don’t do.” (p. 68)

Meeting Sarah Palin: “Still, she [Palin] was a total charmer, very friendly. The few things she said were intelligent. We were sitting virtually knee to knee in the cramped bus, and she radiated sensuality. Her skirt rode above her knees — not exactly short, but close.” (p. 156)

Working Out With John Thune: “[Sen.] John Thune, who looked like a movie star in or out of clothes, was constantly stretching. His lanky body seemed to have some kinks to iron out.” (p. 226) …

Okay. I sure hope that those massages aren’t paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. Otherwise, I got a kick out of Specter’s — well, uh wow — astonishing lack of reserve in his descriptions of his fellow senators and famous politicians. Although you’d never think so by looking at him, in his book Arlen comes across as one lusty guy! Who knew?!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Here’s the fascinating excerpt of the heated exchange between Santorum and Romney, from the CNN transcript of the February 22, 2012 debate in Arizona, via Lynn Sweet’s blog at the Chicago Sun-Times:

SANTORUM: There was a study that just came out about 10 days ago, two weeks ago, that listed 15 ways in which Romneycare was the model for Obamacare, everything from individual mandates, everything from — from fines. Yours is different. You required businesses over 10 employees; Barack — President Obama’s is over 50 employees.

But there — there’s a — and even the drafter of your bill, when they were working on Obama’s bill, said in fact it was the model. So here we have, as Newt said, the real fundamental issue here is government coercion and government coercion when you give governments the right to be able to take your responsibility to provide for your own health and — and — and care, and give it to the government.

That’s what Governor Romney did in Massachusetts. It would be a very — very, let say it would be a difficult task for someone who had the model for Obama Care, which is the biggest issue in this race of government in control of your lives, to be the nominee of our party. It would take that issue completely off…

[...]

ROMNEY: That’s a — that’s a long — that’s a long — that’s a long answer. First of all, let’s not forget that four years ago, well after Romney Care was put in place, four years ago, you not only endorsed me, you and Laura Ingram, and said and this is the guy who is really conservative and we can trust him. Let’s not forget you said, that number one.

(APPLAUSE)

ROMNEY: Number two…

(APPLAUSE)

ROMNEY: …number two, under the tenth amendment, states have the right to do things that they think are in their best interest. I know you — you agree with that. But let’s — let’s point this out, our bill was 70 pages. His bill is 2700 pages. There’s a lot in that 2,700 pages I don’t agree with and let me tell you, if I’m president of the United States, I will repeal Obama Care for a lot of reasons. One, I don’t want to spend another trillion dollars. We don’t have that kind of money, it’s the wrong way to go. Number two, I don’t believe the federal government should cut Medicare by some $500 billion.

Number three, I don’t think the federal government should raise taxes by $500 billion and, therefore, I will repeat Obama Care. And let me — let me — let me mention one more — the reason we have Obama Care — the reason we have Obama Care is because the Senator you supported over Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania, Arlen Specter, the pro- choice Senator of Pennsylvania that you supported and endorsed in a race over Pat Toomey, he voted for Obama Care. If you had not supported him, if we had said, no to Arlen Specter, we would not have Obama Care. So don’t look at me. Take a look in the mirror.

(Romney not only used this argument in the debate, he also used it in TV ads. Check out Politfact.com’s review of the TV ad.)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

What else is going on?

I’ve blown off coverage of the Louisiana primary today. But if any of you hear of something important, please share it!

  • HARP2

     Student shot dead at Mississippi State University
    (Reuters) – A
    student was shot to death at a Mississippi State University residence
    hall late on Saturday night, authorities said, adding that three
    suspects remained at large.

    The unidentified student was reported shot at Evans Hall shortly after 11 p.m. local time, university officials said.Authorities described the suspects as three black males who fled the hall in a late model blue Crown Victoria car.There were no immediate reports of further injuries and the university is operating on “emergency” status, officials said.http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-mississippi-shooting-idUSBRE82O03N20120325

  • elizabethrc

    Romney may not have to defend his healthcare bill  if the Supremes deem all or part  (the mandate)of Obamacare unConstitutional. 
    Yesterday I heard one politico say that it might be worse for Obama’s reelection if the Supremes left it standing.  Since the people overwhelmingly dislike the bill and want all or part of it dismantled, it could serve as a constant reminder of the fact that it was Obama who foisted this bill on the voters.

    • FormerLiberal9

      Obamacare was in a large part why the Dems took a beating in the 2010 election.  Even with the Economy improving if the SCOTUS oks Obamacare it could be tough for Obama. Romney has said he will issue exemptions for any state which doesn’t want Obamacare on his first day of office.  Then if the electorate sends a Republican Senate to the hill they can’t repeal the bill they can gut the money out of it using the nuclear option. In short it could be a sad day in Mudville when Obama and the Dems strike out in November because of Obamacare.

  • Popsmoke

    Romney is full of horse hockey… and “The Extreme” my new name for Satorum ? Just took Louisiana and more than likely will take Texas. If “The Extreme” takes Texas no matter what, Romney will have a convention problem….  

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

       Hillary won Texas. Heck, Hillary won NH, NV,CA, NY, FL, MI, RI, OH, PA, WV, ID, KY, SD, PR too with 8 million votes and the actual difference in PLEDGED delegates between her & Obama was 9 (that’s after 4 of Hillary’s delegates were taken away from her by the DNC). The estimated delegate difference was less than 60. That Dem brokered convention in 2008  sure was exciting — oh, wait, there was no brokered convention when the race was *actually* close; the fantasy by the ABRomney contingent of a brokered convention for the Repub. this year is just that: fantasy. Regardless of TX, Romney is going to actually have the 1144 delegates needed for the nomination (something Obama did not).

      • Popsmoke

         Well we shall see there..Hank deCat!

  • KenoshaMarge

    Not at all surprised Santorum “won” LA. It was expected. But once he gets out of the south he’s in trouble. He needs a lot of wins to even be in contention. I doubt he will get them.

    However all the obamacrats can hope he will. In a general election Santorum would get clobbered. Then the obamacrats and the obamamedia can claim that their clown won in a landslide and has a “mandate” to do more harm to this country.

    Santorum must feel blessed to have so many people praying for him to win. From the left.

    • Popsmoke

       ”Santorum must feel blessed to have so many people praying for him to win. From the left.”

      The left in Coonass Country? Outside of Norleans ..Lefties are hunted critters…

      But this is not a good sign for Romney…. If he can’t bring in the South he is cooked..

      Stick a fork in him he is done…

      • KenoshaMarge

        I was referring to those on the left who want to see him as the nominee not the Social Conservatives and Evangelicals in the south.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

        Another “fantasy” meme of the ABRomney crowd. Besides the fact that Romney won FL and VA (Santorum’s incompetence is not Romney’s fault, so VA counts contrary to the ABRomney crowd) , he was only a few points behind Santorum in MS & AL. LA is going red in the GE no matter what. 

        What do SC, GA, MS, AL, LA, TX, OK, AR, TN, KY,
        WV, MO, KS, NE, SD, ND, MT, WY, ID, UT, AZ & AK have in common?

        Answer: These are the states that voted for McCain in 2008 when Obama
        was at the height of his popularity. They sure as heck aren’t going to
        vote for Obama in 2012 even if the GOP runs Mickey
        Mouse, as long as he’s got an “R” behind his name.

        • Popsmoke

           Right…Florida…. McCain is actually a conservative…..

  • HARP2

    Obama was very disappointed. He thought he was holding a view master.

  • sassysyl

    Did Arlen say anything about seeing Scott Brown, who filled Teddy’s senate seat (and that was a big seat to fill), in the hot tub or getting a massage?  It has been a long time since he posed for Cosmo but he probably still looks better than any of the other 99 senators.

    http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2257476010100545575SQxRhF

    • FormerLiberal9

       Sassysyl the image in my mind of some of these senators without clothes and the Obama vibrator that Hank deCat showed has just about caused me to hurl like Santorum.

  • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

    To Mr. De Cat:

    Yes, the Jesuits run it.  But they hire people of all religions and they take students of all religions.  That puts them in the big sandbox, the one in the neighborhood playground.  If they only hired Catholics and they only took Catholic students–if they were, that is, an institution set up and run by Catholics alone and for the benefit of Catholics alone–then they would be in their own sandbox in their own yard, and they could follow their own rules.  They aren’t.  They’re playing in the neighborhood sandbox now, with all of the other kids from the neighborhood, and they now have to abide by the neighborhood rules.

    And the neighborhood rules are that birth control is a legitimate, legal medicine.  If they don’t want to cover that, then they need to get up out of the neighborhood sandbox and go back and play in their own yard.  That’s their choice.  it isn’t their choice to make everybody else in the playground sandbox abide by their rules.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

       To Mr. Whittock — That still doesn’t make Georgetown a “largely secular school” as you claim in your post below –  SECULAR does not mean what you think it means — look it up & stop trying to redefine the term SECULAR to suit your nonsense point.  Georgetown is a JESUIT school. Point.Blank.Period. End of discussion.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        The school is owned and run by Jesuits, but it gives a secular education, not a religious one.  It has a full time rabbi and a full time imam on staff.  Less than half of the students there are Catholic.

        Once they open up their doors to other religions, they can’t claim they’re there to serve Catholics only, and if they don’t serve Catholics only, then they can’t fall back on church law as a way to overrule U.S. law.

        And I’ll ask again: if this is such a big outrage, where were you and all the other defenders of religious freedom when any number of Republican state legislatures passed–and any number of  Republican governors signed–a bunch of laws just like the one that’s such an affront now?  Why is it so awful that Obama’s doing this when it was just peachy for Huckabee to sign a law like this?

    • FormerLiberal9

      “then they need to get up out of the neighborhood sandbox and go back and play in their own yard. “

      So the Catholics just shut down their hospitals and social service programs. Who will suffer then? Catholic Charities and Hospitals work in many inner city areas where other groups flee. Who will provide the necessary services needed in these areas. Even state governments contract Catholic Charities to provide their social services.

      You should think before you speak troll.

      • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

        No, I don’t want them to shut it all down.  I’d much rather they keep doing what they’re doing and agree to cover birth control.  But if they’re dead set on putting church law above U.S. law, then they can’t serve the broader public.  I don’t want to see that happen, but that’s how it is.  If you serve everybody, and not only your own religious group, then you have to follow the law.

        • FormerLiberal9

           The Law as it was passed contained an exclusion for churches. It wouldn’t have passed if Obama hadn’t agreed to this compromise. Now Katherine Sebelius and his majesty decided on their own to take away the exemption and rule outside the meaning and entente of the law by their own mandate.  So we have no choice but to throw the Tyrants out (sorry Marge for the hyperbole) and repeal the law or render it useless.  See you in November see how you like it under true democratic rule.

  • alicewolf

    Hello.  I just heard an interview with the author of “Can Romney serve two Masters?”   It’s available at Amazon and at Barnes and Noble if I remember what she said correctly.   She is the daughter of a Morman bishop, and was brought up as a Morman, although now she is converted to the “regular” form of Christianity, for want of a better word.  No offense meant okay????  Anyway, the higher echelons of the Morman community are promoted to special knowledge which they get in the “Temple” this lady explained.   And at the level of promotion that Romney is at apparently is where he had given his alliegeance first and foremost to the MOrmon beliefs, and has been given the promise of being exalted  in the future state to being given his own planet and being a god of that planet etc etc.   When he gets to the planet then he can call his wife by a secret name and she can join him there.    I just heard this, and you can check it out for yourselves anyone who cares if the GOP nomination goes to a guy who is part of this belief system.   Have the GOP checked him out properly?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

      Mormonism is still better than Black Liberation Theology ala Rev. Jeremiah Wright. 

      • alicewolf

        Hey……………two wrongs don’t make a right.
        Or a Wright.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

           Um, that isn’t what that expression means, dumbass.

    • http://twitter.com/hserecording Home Recording

      Mormonism is a insane cult. It really is. And yes, it will be a huge issue this fall if Mitt Romney is the nominee. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

        Know what else was called a cult? Catholicism.

        Aw, I long for the old days, when bigots didn’t have the anonymity of the internet to spew their backward opinions — they had to show their face to do it.

        • FormerLiberal9

           It wasn’t that long ago I can remember when I was a child some  protestants made that claim against the pope. Also when JFK ran people claimed the pope would be over here running the country. That was when I was still a Catholic.

      • alicewolf

        Good.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

          Yes, it’s “good” because you revel in your bigotry. That’s how you roll.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

         The Obama Brain Dead Left is a crazier cult & that is going to be the big issue this fall.

    • FLDemFem

       If you are going to criticize Mormons, perhaps you should learn to spell the word properly. It’s “Mormon” NOT “Morman”.

  • http://twitter.com/hserecording Home Recording

    Another red state loss for Romney in Louisiana today… that makes him just 4 of 15 (with 9 for Santorum and 2 for Gingrich.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

       Yes,  a state that is going to vote for the GOP candidate in the GE even if it is Mickey Mouse as long as he has an “R” after his name should cause a lot of sleepless nights for Romney.

      Here’s a question: what do SC, GA, MS, AL, LA, TX, OK, AR, TN, KY, WV, MO, KS, NE, SD, ND, MT, WY, ID, UT, AZ & AK have in common?

      Answer: These are the states that voted for McCain in 2008 when Obama was at the height of his popularity. They sure as heck aren’t going to vote for Obama in 2012 even if, as I wrote above, the GOP runs Mickey Mouse, as long as he’s got an “R” behind his name.

      • http://twitter.com/hserecording Home Recording

        That’s not really the point. The point is the GOP base is not excited about Romney.

        Furthermore; I wouldn’t be so sure about Georgia – I think Obama could win there in 2012.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

          The base was even LESS excited by McCain, so that is EXACTLY the point. As for GA being in contention, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Whatever helps you sleep at night, sweetie.

        • KenoshaMarge

          Georgia? Where Romney isn’t nearly conservative enough? Vote for Obama?  Seriously?

        • FormerLiberal9

           The only Democrats that I was ever excited about were JFK and  Bill Clinton but I voted for all the other losers because I thought it was better than electing a Republican. 

  • HARP2

     New Black Panthers offering $10K reward for ‘capture’ of Zimmerman

    http://twitchy.com/2012/03/24/new-black-panthers-offering-10k-reward-for-capture-of-zimmerman/

    • BronwynsHarbor

      Dear lord.

      • http://twitter.com/VeronicaVerona1 Veronica Verona

        Home Recording – why don’t you read up on the witness that saw the whole thing…not the girlfriend on the phone.

        Seems there’s a possibility that Obama, Jackson, Sharpton, and the Black Panthers could get PWNED on this one.

        Tsk, tsk, tsk

        • KenoshaMarge

          Why read up when you can just go with the flow.

          After all, they don’t need no facts and Zimmerman doesn’t deserve a fair shake and is obviously guilty.

           Why wait until all the facts are in and the law has had a chance to work? Let’s just find a short rope and a tall tree.

          Zimmerman has all ready been tried and convicted in the media. One more sin of our corrupt media.

          • http://twitter.com/VeronicaVerona1 Veronica Verona

            You got it!  The dems get more vile by the minute.

    • http://twitter.com/hserecording Home Recording

      that’s what happens when law enforcement doesn’t do their job.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

         Yes, because 2 wrongs make a right in your world.

      • KenoshaMarge

        Are you seriously commending vigilantism? You are one sick puppy. The kool-aid has rotted your brain. If you ever had one.

  • DianaLC

    Bronwyn,

    You had to give those excerpts about Congressional hot tubs and massages–I know have a terrible mind’s eyesore image of naked congressmen….

    Can I say double Yuck!!!  And what are they doing waiting so long for those massages, didn’t they have a gazillion page document to read? 

    And now I AM angry, feeling pretty darned sure that my tax money is paying for those massages and hot tubs, etc.

    Then, I start flashing back in my mind to the old I Claudius series that appeared in the late 70s that was based on Robert Graves novel.  I keep flashing back to it with every new horrid news story about famous people who are supposed to be admired. 

    I thought of old lecherous Tiberius and his “minnows” during the Penn State scandal. 

    Then with the Fluke-ing explanation about how much birth control costs those privileged Georgetown students (especially as I recall myself as a student, working 25 hours a week as a waitress in an all-you-can-eat restaurant on a full school schedule, studying all night and averageing only 3-4 hours sleep, crawling around on my knees looking for a lost dime so I could buy an ice-cream cone and having NO ENERGY left over to think about needing birth control), I had to call up images of good old Messalina, wife of Claudius, and her all-night sexual competition with the most famous prostitute of the time.

    These hot tubs, massages, baths, etc–naked people, perhaps with towels, perhaps not–are in NO WAY  what I want to think of when I think of  the people we send to serve our interests.

    I can’t wait until one of these Congressional idiots gives his favorite horse–like Caligula’s Incitatus–an important political position and then asks us to worship the horse as a god on its death.  (Now that I think of it, a horse has more sense than these people.)

    Where in the heck is Jimmy Stewart when we need him?

    • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

      Jeez, what’s with the Sandra Fluke obsession?  These students ALREADY PAY Georgetown for their health insurance.  They are asking that Georgetown cover the birth control in the policy THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR.  Nobody’s asking for a free ride here.  Nobody’s asking taxpayers to pay for them to have sex.  They are asking to get a legal product that should already be covered by the service they HAVE PAID FOR.  Not all of these students are privileged.  Many of them are at Georgetown on scholarships.  Mommy and daddy aren’t paying the way for all of them.

      I really don’t understand all this hostility toward this woman.  Maybe you could help me.  I really do want to understand why so many people are so angry with her.  What has she done that’s so wrong?   What has she done that’s so indefensible?  Seriously, what?

      You know, everybody needs a hand some time or another in their lives.  I’m glad that some smal part of the taxes I pay goes to help people who need it.  I feel proud about that.  I wish MORE of what my wife and I pay in taxes went to help those who need it.  I’d be HAPPY to see my tax rate go up a few points if all that extra money went to programs for the poor.  I don’t resent it, since I know that there but for the grace of God go I.  But Sandra Fluke isn’t even asking for that.  She isn’t asking anything of me.  She isn’t asking anything of you.  Whay do you resent her so?

      • FLDemFem

         Georgetown is a Catholic school. It is run by the Jesuits. The Jesuits tend to be more liberal than much of the Church, but they still don’t allow birth control. If the students wanted their health insurance to cover birth control, they should not have gotten it through a Catholic school. The Catholic Church does not allow birth control nor will it pay for it in insurance policies. It is their right to do so. So if Ms. Fluke wanted a health insurance policy that covered birth control, she should have gotten it somewhere else. Catholic schools do not provide birth control. Everyone knows that except, apparently, Ms. Fluke and you.

        • DianaLC

          EXACTLY–Freedom of religion in this country trumps a person’s choice to use contraceptives.  And please, please, please don’t go on aboubt their school’s health insurance policy.  They could go to Planned Parenthood or elesewhere nearby and probably still get it more cheaply than through their school’s health insurance program.  (As I believe Ms Fluke has FINALLY admitted.)

          Heck, I don’t want to pay taxes to support the Congressional hot tubs and massages, but I am not stupid enough to think I’ll get anywhere with the IRS if I try to deduct any of my taxes for that.  I choose to live in this country with its Constitution.  It is a Constitutional right for a religious organization to follow its religious beliefs.  Fluke could go to a public university or to a different private school with a policy that will provide it.

          And by the way, I went to a state college/university.  I had a full tuition/fees scholarship but graduated debt free as I mentioned by working 25 hours a week on a full and sometimes over full schedule and maintained my B+/A- requirement to keep the scholarship.  I certainly wouldn’t have had time to worry so darned much about birth control or appearing before Congress under the tutelage of Media Matters.  (And no, I am not ugly.  I was engaged at the time, at a time when sex was not a recreational sport.  It gnaws at me to think that this is something someone more privileged than I ever was–the granddaughter of poor religious immigrant grandparents–would expect me to feel any sympathy for.

          • http://twitter.com/Mumphrey333 Upshur Whittock

            There is some truth to what you say.  Georgetown is a Catholic school.  But it is not a narrow religious institution.  If this were a church, which looked after members of that religion only, and hired members of that reigion only, then it would be within its rights to withhold coverage for birth control.  But Georgetown is a largely secular school.  It is run by the Catholic church, but it is open to people of any faith–or no faith at all.  It hires people of many faiths; I would guess that there are even atheists on its staff and faculty.  At this point, it has to follow the law, and I would argue, that since birth control is legal in the U.S., it has to cover that under its health insurance policies.

            Look at this another way: Say the Catholic church ran a chain of private drugstores.  These would not be open to just anybody, but would be for Catholics only.  Maybe there would be memberships that customers would have to buy.  It would hire only Catholics to work there.  It would be, I guess, kind of like some kind of commissary, a religious one.  They would, under this scenario, be well within their rights to cover whatever they wanted.  If they wanted to leave birth control out, then they’d have  every right to do so.  I can’t believe anybody would have any standing to sue them, nor can I see why anybody would want to.

            But if they opened a chain of public drugstores, that anybody could walk into and buy something from, then they would be bound to follow secular law, not religious law.  It would do no good at this point for them to say, “Oh, we’re Catholics; we don’t believe in birth control.  It goes against church law.”  They couldn’t do that.  It doesn’t matter what they believe at this point, they’re now open to all people, and they have  a duty to fill people’s prescriptions, whatever they think about it.

            Another way to say this is that if Georgetown really didn’t want to cover birth control, there would be an easy way to get out of it: Shut t heir doors to all but Catholics, hire no on but Catholics and take no money from the government.  Then they’d be free to do what they want.  Once they choose to play in the big sandbox with all the other kids, they  have to follow the rules that bind everybody else in that sandbox.

            I’ll also bring up that something like 15 or 20 states have laws that bind even religious institutions like Georgetown–schools and hospitals and the like–to cover birth control in their insurance policies.  Arkansas passed such a law when Huckabee was governor and he signed it.  Nobody raised hell about this until Obama did the same thing federally.  Now some of these same people who never cared before, even some of the politicians who passed or signed these very laws, are all up in arms about it.  This makes me think that this has less to do with any real philosophical or moral or religious objection than it has to do with a chance to try to get some voters all riled up in time for the election.

            Now, tell me why I’m wrong here.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

             Sorry Upshur Whittock, but you argument loses when you claim Georgetown is “a largely secular school” — it isn’t. It is run by the Jesuits — it doesn’t matter that most of the people who work there aren’t priests or nuns — that doesn’t somehow convert Georgetown into “a largely secular school” — it’s a Catholic school, run by the Jesuits.

          • DianaLC

            In response to Upshur,  I can’t imagine the Catholics deciding to run drug stores.  That is the stupidest argument I ever heard.  First of all, the profession of “apothecary” in the Middle Ages was a shady one–not one that was respected.  The priests did study healing and herbs, etc., to help, but they were certainly NOT apothecaries. 

            If you knew any history, you would know that the Christian organizations have been in the education field BEFORE we had public schools.  Christians went into poor neighborhoods to teach children to read and write in order to give them a way to read “The Word.”

            I taught as an adjunct at a Christian University–not Catholic, more fundamentalist.  I knew that as an employee of that university I had to abide by their beliefs.  Their students knew that too.

            I came from a more liberal Christian denomination, but I certainly did respect their right to enforce their rules.

            Catholics and other Christian denominations have also LONG been in the business of providing healthcare services–since the beginning of Christianity.  That is one of the things that attracted converts, how Christians treated everyone as “brothers and sisters” equally. 

            Who are you to decide that they now have to go secular in the way they run things.

            Ms. Fluke made a trip to Denver (my area) just the other night because she doesn’t like an attempt being made in CO to prevent the libs’ efforts to circumvent religious freedom on this issue. 

            I found her interview to be insincere, especially her claim that all the things she has had to “suffer” have been hard.  Bull poo-poo.  She was enjoying the limelight.  She went on about how she was planning to make this her life’s work as a lawyer after she graduates.  She’ll be working for some lefty legal organization soon being paid through lefty contributions while she goes on to “suffer” for her friends.

            She appeared to be like all those “victims” of drug addiction or whatever, who when they get straight, decide they are now going to “save” others.  It’s like they feel they have earned a badge of honor or something for getting out of a situation they got themselves into in some regard sometimes. 

            I don’t deny that often the best counselors are people who have personal understanding of what their clients are going through–but to be claiming that is your mission in life before you’ve even begun really seems a bit like hubris.

          • FormerLiberal9

             Or maybe they could just drop coverage for all students. And let Ms. Fluke and her friends fend for themselves. After all they are not employees and the school is just helping them out by providing coverage at group rates if they want it.

      • elizabethrc

        What has people so angry about this Fluke person is that she is far more than she tried to present to the American people.  She is being represented by Anita Dunn out of the Obama administration now, but still marching to his drumbeat.
        Further, Fluke has agitated at the college for having them pay for sex change operations. 
        No, this little lady is not what she seems, but her 15 minutes will be over soon.  As more and more comes out about her background, (as is coming out about Corzine and his lies to Congress about his role in lost monies at MFGloboal), she’s going to be seen as the tarnished little tool she is.

  • no_longer_a_democrat

    I’m supposed to respect or trust the opinion of a man who switched parties just when it was most politically advantageous for him to do so?
    So is he considered a political “whore” (using NOW’s rhetoric)?

    • wellbeing

      You must be a Santorum supporter.

      • no_longer_a_democrat

        Yea, I got my Santorum pom poms already for him when he loses and gets behind Romney Mittens.

        /s

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

    I wouldn’t worry too much about LA — only 20 delegates of 42 are up for grabs.  They are awarded proportionately to everyone who gets at least 25% of the vote (any left over go to the convention as “uncommitted”), but  if someone wins more than 50% of the vote, he only gets 10 with the rest going uncommitted. The other 22 delegates are assigned at a caucus around the end of April. Totally screwy, I know, but that’s how things “work” in LA.

    • FormerLiberal9

       Thanks for the information.

    • BronwynsHarbor

      I can’t believe it — Fox News just played a clip of Ricky gloating about how he did in Louisiana today and reminding Romney that it’s still not too late for him to drop out of the race.  

      Ricky apparently didn’t take any classes in math.  The best analyses I’ve seen — including CNN’s John King and Karl Rove (like him or not, he’s a number whiz) — all show that Santorum would need to win over 70% of all the delegates in every state primary that is remaining.  Then there are the super delegates, most of whom — I’m betting — will be more inclined to vote for Romney.

      • http://twitter.com/LHN_UK Liverpool Hotels Now

        they won’t be so inclined if Santorum goes on a run… what if Santorum wins the next 10 states – do you honestly think that won’t matter?

        the huge margin that Santorum won by today tells you that most GOP voters still don’t like Romney ..  I think this is especially important as it’s the first primary since Romney admitted his Etch A Sketch strategy for the general.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

          Actually, no it doesn’t. In the LA primary, only people registered Rep. could vote — those registered I or Dem could not — that makes a difference in LA because until very recently, everyone was registered Dem. even though they voted Republican in the GE. It’s a  long, screwed up history, but LA is home to what is known as “Blue Dog Dems” — they really are Republicans, but are technically Dems. because of the whole freeing the slaves thing (yes, it is that bad in LA — this is the state that had David Duke elected as a state rep. & then getting 39% of the vote in 1991 when he ran for governor). The first Republican governor of LA was David Treen in the 1980s — still, though, most people stayed registered Dem even though they consistently vote Republican in the GE. The people who are actually registered Republican now are the social conservatives — those votes were always going to Santorum against a Mormon. That’s a fact, jack. But they will go to the GOP nominee against Obama.

          And the next primaries are on April 3rd — WI, DC, MD — they are winner take all & Romney is going to win them all. Heck, the only primary Santorum has a shot at in the entire month of April is PA. So, he isn’t going on a run.

          • KenoshaMarge

            Romney up by double digits here in WI.

          • FormerLiberal9

             Good comment.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Hank-DeCat/100001190387982 Hank DeCat

         Well, I hope Santorum enjoys his last win. Santorum is going to end up with 8 or 9 delegates; Romney with 5. BFD. It doesn’t stop Romney from getting to 1144 delegates by the end of June and it doesn’t do much to help the “brokered convention” fantasy either, no matter which way you look at it.

      • elizabethrc

        Santorum is running on empty.  That gas he spews isn’t coming from his engine.  He’s running on pure ego now and if he is as tone deaf as he appears regarding his Victorian views on the role of women, he’ll garner only a tiny fraction of the 52% of voters who are female.

  • HARP2

    If Sanctimonious wins we will have to listen to all the drivel about how wonderful he is. Every time he speaks he is convincing himself that his quotes will go down in history, like JFK,Lincoln or Reagan. Just listen to his tone and watch his facial expressions.
    He really is a legend in his own mind.

    • FLDemFem

       And how is that different from Obama? Over at MOTUS, they call him ALI HOM..A Legend In His Own Mind.  Sounds like Sanctimonious(great name for him, by the way!) can share the title. And if his quotes go down in history like JFK’s, will some future candidate say they hurled when they read it? One can only hope!

      • HARP2

         True That !!