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Can We Find Some Reason?

By Larry Johnson on November 20, 2008 at 10:03 PM in Current Affairs

I am fascinated by the vitriol directed at Undercover Black Man following his return to NoQuarter. Guys, he went after me hard but I hold no grudge. I take back nothing I have written about Barack and Michelle Obama. That said, I don’t want to see them destroyed or to fail. For the sake of our country I hope that Barack has a successful Presidency.

While I am not happy he is in the big chair, it is what it is. I do not require anyone to bow down at the altar of Obama. But I also do not prohibit or ban folks who do. For me the beauty of America is our diversity. We have got to learn how to disagree without going into pure visceral hatred.

Easier said than done.

I saw on CNN tonight (it was the only channel in my hotel room for news) reporting on the crap written by Josh Marshall attacking Hillary. I like Josh as a person but my initial reaction was to write a piece decrying him as an insufferable, self-absorbed asshole. But I resisted the temptation. Josh is very wrong about Hillary and I will relish watching him having to praise her performance in a few years. But hating Josh or wishing him ill is not an appropriate approach.

I repeat Susan’s request. Let’s try to be civil to one another. Let’s try to avoid calling each other names (though I fully understand the emotions and passion involved). Most importantly, let’s talk about our respective views and explain why we think what we think. I welcome disagreements.

  • catherine

    Larry,with all due respect, I don’t think you fully understand the extent of the damage that has been done.

    I’m all for dissenting opinions in a civil manner but you can’t expect us to pretend that a poisonous viper is now a fluffy teddy bear and we’re going to cuddle it. I was’nt wearing rose tinted specs before the election and I’m not wearing them now.

    You can hope and pray all you want for Obama to succeed but you know perfectly well how he “served” his constituents in Illinois. The past is prologue Larry.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      catherine,
      I don’t ask you to wear rose tinted specs. You are fully entitled to your view and I welcome your right to express it here.

      I simply point out the reality that he will be sworn in as President. And at that point we judge him by what he does and not what he was. Is that fair?
      LJ

      • cc

        wow..I just posted a comment saying I disagreed about wishing bo a successful presidency and it’s now gone. I didn’t say anything inappropriate. wonder why the comment was deleted?

        • kgirl1028

          Don’t fill bad i’ve written comments that said in a nice way that obama was the devil and they didn’t come up, its not you i think it might be the server.

          • Sally

            Always copy your work before you post…it seems that sometimes the server just dumps them randomly…I don’t think it is personal since it has happened to me a few times too yet when reposted it makes the cut.

            • socalannie

              I’ve lost a lot of comments here the past few days also. i was wondering if I have a bug or something (I use a mac & haven’t had one yet), but it sounds like we’re all experiencing the same thing. Must be server.

              • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

                Its the spam filtering service they use. It is not perfect and certain things can trigger it with a false positive.

                • KathyNeocon

                  So they censor our posts but trolls like UBM post unscathed??!!! Oy vey.

                  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

                    You are misunderstanding. The spam filter is applied to all comments. Sometimes a false positive (as spam) moderation occurs, against you or even “that previously banned race baiting blogger extraordinaire who shall remain nameless to protect children and small animals.”

                    • KathyNeocon

                      LOL Galt!!! :shock:

                    • Ani

                      I likewise have had comments disappear or not come up when I hit add comment and I am one of the writers here — it ain’t personal, believe me! :)

          • TheAntiBigot

            Comment by kgirl1028 | 2008-11-21 00:15:33

            Don’t fill bad i’ve written comments that said in a nice way that obama was the devil

            How do you fill bad? The Devil? Are you for real?

            • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

              Hey Anti-Bigot…are you that same loser Obot troll that used to post at the AOL Straw Poll under Voice of Reason? He was a troll like you and just as ridiculous.

        • http://americanpumainitaly.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

          I go int the spam filter from time and time, and find random (even mine) comments automatically placed in there. I pull them when i find them. They are usually very very normal, and not controversial at all. It is the filter – nothing more. (and they are hard to find in the filter because there is SOOOOO much spam crap in there!!!!)

      • SFIndiePUMA

        Do we no longer judge Bill Ayers for what he did in the past, but only for what he does now? Because there are those who applaud him now as an “educator” and say it is no longer important that he once committed terrorist acts against his own country. In my eyes, Bill Ayers is, and always will be, a terrorist, I don’t care what he does now.

        I hold The Pretender to those same standards. What he was and what he did to get (s)elected can never, for me, be separate from what he does in the future. In my eyes, he is, and always will be, a fraud.

        • Baba Rum Raisin

          Historically, we have embraced former terrorists when they clean up their acts and become Respectable.

          M. Begin comes immediately to mind.

          Kissed Pinochet’s ass on both cheeks a lot, too.

          Ayers is more despicable to me, in the short run, because he’s a ‘Merkin (as in, “Mah fella ‘Merkins.”).

          • Northwest rain

            Ayers is unrepentant and in fact PROUD of his past. So he gets no pass. He’s still a domestic terrorist. Home grown, not a house wife.

        • Trudy

          I agree

      • KathyNeocon

        simply point out the reality that he will be sworn in as President. And at that point we judge him by what he does and not what he was. Is that fair?
        LJ

        No, it’s not fair. Because Obama scammed and terrorized his way into the White House with the help of his brainwashed minions he gets a clean slate?!? I don’t think so.

        • Northwest rain

          He is still a sexist pig — and will remain a sexist pig. He ran a sexist campaign — and the level of misogyny from his little (balls) followers is unforgivable. Women have gone BACKWARD — thanks to that sexist pig.

          • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

            Ummm… is this 1973 and do people still say “sexist pig”?

            Is it supposed to hurt to be called that?

            • beebop

              Only if you had a mother and raise daughters, I guess.

          • beebop

            I think that it will extend beyond women. I can’t see how failure as the “first black” president does African Americans any good. They voted for his color, not the content of his character much less accomplishments or experience.

      • mimi

        Oh geez, I missed all the fun. :(

        I kind of agree with Larry, reluctantly.

        The main reason I do is because I don’t want things to get any worse. To me, wishing 0bama ill is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

        I’ve never been big on doing that.

        Look, I don’t think he has it in him to be a great POTUS. So why waste good energy wishing him ill.

        Remember, 10 million Republicans stayed home. That was the game-changer for me. The Repubs did not want the WH this time and as a result, McCain didn’t stand a chance.

        I think if people simply absorb that litte reality they will come to terms with the fact that 0bama won.

        Yeah, we know he’s got chickens out there…. waiting….

        …. and yes, they will come home to roost, with or without our ill wishes.

        Another thing to remember:

        “There are more tears in heaven for answered prayers than unanswered ones.”

        As far as Undercover Black Man is concerned: trust me on this, wait. The AA community is in for a surprise.

        • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

          We’ve had our surprise, mimi. The dude is still alive!

          :-)

    • lark

      I am with you catherine. It is not possible to erase the past because it is part of the present. It makes the present totally uncertain and fragile. The point of judging from a new basis, starting anew either on Jan 20th. or Nov. 5th. is delusional or idealistic. The only thing that in my mind is possible is a new birth for Obama and as I said, Graham is retired. If we want to erase the past and provide him with a new starting point there need to be a point where he repents and apologizes for lying and deceiving so many times. Absent of a repentant heart there is no point in providing him with the benefit of the doubt. Because without a turn around the only thing that can be expected is a continuation of the past.

      • catherine

        My thoughts exactly.

        • Sally

          Me too! I agree with you here and in other posts. Too much relativity and up becomes down and a criminal becomes president…and the people just go on as if nothing happened.

          Enough relativity and being so open minded that you brain falls out…enough.

          • beebop

            On board and 100% in agreement. Sorry. He’s not stepping out without dragging the Chicago machine with him. He’s the same guy.

  • PKJayne

    Larry you make a great point.

    I stayed away for the last two weeks because it had turned into a bash fest Puma’s against Repub’s on the board. Or so it seemed.

    We here in Ohio did our damnedest to not see barry elected. Same as our sister state Pa. I read some really awful comments on both these states and decided it wasn’t the time to comment.

    Things are as they are. I myself am regrouping for the Barry Watch. Time will tell, but I have little faith in an Obama presidency. That is just the way I see it.

    Godspeed the next four years.

  • AngryWhitePerson

    We can all disagree and agree civilly. I am never going to adopt someone else’s opinion if it clashes with mine, but that doesn’t stop me from listening and learning. However, when someone tries to squash a discussion by calling another poster a skinhead, silly, irrational, retarded, etc., etc. gosh golly my reaction might be to say fuck you. What would yours be?

    When someone posts over and over again in same fashion in attempts to change the subject or get attention, I might want to rail. Would you?

    And if someone threaten me with “bitchslaps” hmm, well, then I might want to fight back in an enraged fashion. What would your reaction be? Just curious.

    • mimi

      AWP,

      Yours is a sensible post.

      We don’t have to pray for Barry to succeed. But we also don’t have to waste good energy praying for him to fail as his failure hurts all of America.

      But we should keep watch and stay vigilant.

      I will never like 0bama because of the way he won. I’m not an end justifies the means kind of person. So he could become the holy grail of POTUS’s, it won’t change my personal antipathy for the guy.

      But he won’t. He’s a snake. And like a leopard, he can’t change his spots.

    • AnninCA

      You might wish to note that reactions were being suppressed here for awhile.

      It’s balancing back out.

      • AngryWhitePerson

        You might wish to note, AnninCa, that you are one of the posters usually trying to suppress discussion or highjack threads by calling others skinheads, foolish, silly, embarassing, la la la la de la la ad nauseum. It’s f-ng tiring to see threads derailed because you personally don’t like something. And if you have an opinion, stand by your opinion, but knock off the namecalling and bullying and then perhaps we can agree or disagree on points.

        • AnninCA

          ad hominim attack.

          See moderator’s post on this.

          :)

          • AngryWhitePerson

            No, see your own.

  • Andy

    Thanks LJ. But on your second point (re. Josh Marshall)

    How do we get the MSM to be back in the business of real, serious and objective journalism???

    Why don’t you write a piece about all the things he said that were wrong and why : ie. write a rebuttal!! That would be great, I would submit it to RCP.

    Thanks!

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      I will. I’m traveling tomorrow. I will try to get it up on Saturday.
      LJ

      • Andy

        Thanks LJ; looking forward to it.

  • snosandy

    Greta just reported that the AP confirms that Obama will announce Hillary as SoS after Thanksgiving (wonder why they are going to let the speculation continue to fuel the fire for so long). The AP reports the source is from the Transition Team. Well, well, the media has been saying the Clinton camp has been leaking the news.

    I can’t wait to see how the media treats Hillary as the most prestigious cabinet member (you don’t see them trashing Condaleeza Rice for Bush’s missteps and barely even Colin Powell for selling the Iraq war to the American people). They will finally have to show her the respect she deserves.

    • catherine

      I don’t believe anything the AP says anymore.

      I remember last December the AP stated at around 8pm that the constitutional amendment Hugo Chavez wanted had passed. In fact the votes were not announced until well after midnight (there was nearly a riot) and the amendment did NOT pass.

    • hadenough

      I think if Hillary is SoS it’ll be the end of barry. The media hate the Clintons so much they will destroy obama because he dared pick Hillary. They created him and they can destroy him.

      • Diana

        I hope you’re right, but I have a feeling this was planned. I still cannot shake the feeling they’re trying to get the Clintons out of Washington for good. Conspiracy theory or not. I think it’s a set up, she gives up her Senate seat, within months she’s forced to resign. She can’t just go back and say I’m taking my senate seat back now. I hope I’m wrong, but I’ve had that feeling since I heard Nancy’s interview, plus with all the things they did to her during the primary. It’s for that reason I haven’t been happy since I heard this announcement. You can forgive, forgiving doesn’t mean forgettting. Obama has it out for her, Michelle hates her.

        • lark

          Very possible.

        • KintheNorthwest

          I have a feeling you just might be right. Once Hillary steps out of the Senate seat, she cant go back.
          So if Obama fires Hillary 30, 45 or ?? days later where does Hillary go from there?

        • Idiocracy08

          I’m with you on that one. The only way I’ll believe differently is if Bill is chosen to replace her senate seat. And we know that ain’t gonna happen! I do think he wants to keep her around as long as he can though so he can blame her for everything.

        • mimi

          I dare him to fire her in a short period of time.

          I double dare him.

          He.Will.Look.Like.A.Fool.

          And it will doom his presidency for sure. The Repubs will love this. They will never let America forget she was his choice.

          I’m sorry Hillary’s taking it, but perhaps the reason she might be is that they will marginalize her in the Senate if she stays. Think of all the people who worked against her. The Dems have a majority. They plan to do 0bama’s bidding. How much power would she really have as the lone voice of opposition? I also think they plan to run someone in the Primary against her in 2012.

          I, a former, Democrat voted for McCain. To me, an 0bama defeat was the only thing that guaranteed a future for Hillary. He won.

          If Hillary becomes SoS, I hope she will do some good and prove the naysayers wrong. 0bama has his hands full with the economy. That will be his failure or victory. At least with Hillary as SoS, maybe foreign policy will be kept in check.

          Fingers crossed.

          • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

            agree mimi :0)

    • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

      Unfortunately, the rules of courtesy and respect don’t apply to the Clintons. It’s called the Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

      • catherine

        So true.

    • Joanie in Brooklyn

      You would think. But I don’t happen to think so. CDS has no cure.

    • beebop

      Maybe they sense that she is getting cold feet and so if they leak it it is obvious that the ball is in her court? Maybe she wants to discuss it with the family. If anyone who is close to the last true First family is reading any of this …. RUN RUN RUN far from him Hillary and keep your senate seat. Write a book about the campaign and speak in every public forum between now and when the house of cards falls in.

  • hadenough

    Just about everybodys traffic has dropped. That’s what happens post election:

    http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/noquarterusa.net

    http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/talkingpointsmemo.com

    Except for marsh. She pretty much bottomed out a while ago.

    • noproblama

      Speaking of TM, I hope what happened over there after the primary doesn’t happen here.

      I’d hate to see this great blog gelded by the Obama thought police or taken over like Invasion of the Barky Snatchers.

      • Northwest rain

        She turned her blog over to the bots.

        Serves her right!!!!

  • Brian H

    “I simply point out the reality that he will be sworn in as President. And at that point we judge him by what he does and not what he was. Is that fair?”

    Well, there’s a wee timing problem. When he’s sworn in, he won’t have done anything yet. And given what he’s said and hinted and shown he’s likely to do, “judging him” after the fact may be WAY too late.

    Some things should be prevented, not fixed. Obama’s Presidency is definitely one of them.

    • Reality not religion

      well there’s not much one can do right now to prevent it, and look at the bright side; you’ll get to sit back and laugh at the bambi bots everytime ‘the one’ does something differently than what they thought he was going to do, differently than what he told them he would do.

      it is likely to be one long comedy hour for the next 4 years.

      • TeakWoodKite

        Mr. Johnson,

        A paradox of sorts eh?

        we judge him by what he does and not what he was

        I suppose according to Artemis March never the two shall meet.

        He was and is what he does, that is the in-escapable human condition.

        All hands on deck.

    • lark

      In this case it cannot be prevented. Obama won the election. What can be done is pay the price or the cost. As Biden said, gird your loins. What we do is to assess those cost ahead of time. But now is time to pay the error of our way. Obama will cost plenty and we’ll pay with with interest.

      • Northwest rain

        Work for his defeat —

        But I have absolutely no faith in the voters. When Nixon was elected and then impeached — I remember prediction that we would see someone far worse than Nixon. “no no — please really learned this time”.

        Next we get Ray-gun (Carter before him) — and now inadequate, inexperienced — out of his depth — already making some bad choices (Biden — prime example).

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Sorry, I can’t wish him well, knowing what he did to get there. And also knowing in my heart he is the worst thing that could have happened to this country. I happen to like the Flag, Constitution, and all of the other symbolism that makes us “American.” I’m not going to watch that be trashed without a fight. As I have said, America was founded on dissent and there is nothing wrong with fighting for this country’s survival, rather than just sitting and watching Fraudbama destroy it. I’m not sure how this site went from what it was when I got here, SO Anti-Fraudbama, to now being all Kumbaya. Wow. This is STILL the same man that EVERYONE here has been exposing over and over, day after day, for being a pretty vile character. He didn’t change, nor will he.

    • erin

      You are quite right. Obama is still the same person he was before the General Election, but you are stuck with him for the next four years so you have no choice but to make the best of a bad job. It is not only the US that has to live with this choice, the rest of the world has to also considering the wide influence US politics has on the global community. That is one reason why Hillary Clinton being appointed Secretary of State would be such a great move because she is highly regarded overseas. More is known about her than the President elect which certainly says something.

      • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

        That’s where you and I (and most people here who have changed their minds about Fraudbama) disagree. I’m not “stuck” with anything. The great news about America is that we (still) have the right to protest, dissent, etc. While we still have some of those rights left, we can all fight to expose him, have him held acountable for what he has done, etc. I don’t feel stuck, really. I feel challenged to right a wrong.

        • TheAntiBigot

          If you support America, why did you call nealty 70 million of Americans scum?

  • CT girl

    Although I haven’t seen any comments from UBC since before the election, he was nothing but rude and disrespectful to everyone here. There’s only one way to deal with a bully, and kissing his ass ain’t it. He’s the one that needs to learn to play nice in sandbox.

    • CT girl

      Oops, UBM not UBC.

    • Fran

      I recognize the handle, and, as I recall, he was rather rude – or pushy. I have a negative association with him.

      • CT girl

        Undercover Black Man = UBM. I think he used both as handles.

      • Hope Floats! Flush Twice!

        I hate his/her guts for calling everyone racists all the time and just being a pushy gloating cocksucker.

        • Northwest rain

          Well I second that sentiment!

          yep — you betcha!

        • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

          Whatever my faults, Hope… I never degraded this forum with the type of language you use.

  • elise

    Larry, he is an insufferable, self absorbed ass. Some people are pathological about Hillary and they should be called on their insanity. It is a sickness.

    They should all be locked up in a room and forced to listen to every speech she has ever made (including the one on the Senate floor before the Iraqi Resolution vote), every debate with everyone and then they should be forced to read Ken Starr’s report on Whitewater and examine all the tax record available, beginning in 1976.

    Now that her husband has agreed to open the books on his charitable foundation, they have come up with the idea that, somehow, being married to the best president since FDR is a negative. Because the one they selected to be president is too weak and uninformed to retain control of the office he stole. The Clintons will stage a bloodless coup and the only way to stop it is imprison them in the tower until the guillotine can be build.

    I’m sick of every one from the local newspaper op ed to CNN and FOX news trying to find reasons she shouldn’t be offered this position, even though they all agree she is the best choice and the best qualified.

    • Brendy

      “I’m sick of every one from the local newspaper op ed to CNN and FOX news trying to find reasons she shouldn’t be offered this position, even though they all agree she is the best choice and the best qualified.”

      ***

      What does it matter? I’m sick of every voter, and ALL of the media for electing the ‘worst’ choice and the ‘least’ qualified for the most important job in the world – POTUS. It SICKENS me that he now has all this power and has absolutely NO clue what to do with it (not saying that Hillary’s not qualified for SOS – just that Obama is NOT qualified for ANYTHING, and HE is the one with the power).

      And to think, this, this JERK who sat in that racist, anti-America hate filled church for 20+ years, was friends with terrorists, crooks and did NOTHING to help his constituents in Chicago, who played the race card, lied and deceived the voters about his past – this fraud won the grand prize! Forget about telling your kids to play fair and always tell the truth – they won’t get ANYWHERE!

      There will be MILLIONS of people in this country who will NEVER accept him – I don’t care how well he does. For some people, it’s hard to forget ‘how the game was won’, and playing dirty and unfairly will ALWAYS be remembered. These same people don’t like hypocrites, either (looks like Obama is turning into one of those, too).

      • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

        There will be MILLIONS of people in this country who will NEVER accept him – I don’t care how well he does.

        All righty then, Brendy… what would you like to discuss for the next eight years while the rest of us are living our lives?

  • Louie

    We are Americans first.

    I don’t agree with Obama, I don’t agree with the methods used this election, (or the Chicago corruption ie, pretty much the same as with Cheney, and Bush), but I won’t disparage him to the point of sabotaging my country, that is insane.

    It’s important to tell the truth, though, change comes slowly.

    If he continues to use methods that hurt the country, such as misogyny and racism, the Atwater tactics, (like Cheney and Rove), he’ll be called on it. If Rezko type corruption is a problem, he’ll be called on that, too.

    He doesn’t get a free pass.

    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

      Fraudbama is going to do what he is going to do, regardless of who sits here and sings Kumbaya about his theft of the Presidency. He doesn’t need ME to coo at him like some doped up teenager. He has those. What I need to do for me, and for my country, is fight for the First Amendment which Fraudbama wants to take away. I want to fight for the Second Amendment which Fraudbama wants to take away. I want to fight to keep the symbolism of this country what it is and always was. Fraudbama wants to change the FLAG. Yes, in his own words. Now, that isn’t going to fly here. He wants to change the Constitution, because “it’s a flawed document” in HIS OWN WORDS. He wants a CIVILIAN MILITARY FORCE, which is completely ridiculous. Yes, if people want to just sit around and watch everything America is be destroyed, great. I am grateful for the many grass roots movements out there that continue to fight this fraud.

      • Louie

        Obama has no right to change the Constitution.

        Cheney tried, IMO, waging an all out war, from FISA to torture, executive signing orders, even usurping Bush’s powers, as President.

        But ultimately, he didn’t succeed, in part because people like Larry, and others, stood up to him, and Congress.

        Why would it change with Obama?

        It won’t, no one has rose colored glasses on, we see him for who he is, there are plenty of legitimate issues upon which to debate, for lack of a better word, Obama.

        No one has forgotten about Rezko, pay to play, or the electoral tactics, either.

        But let’s see what he does, first.

        • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

          Louie…he can’t POSSIBLY succeed. We all know that. He’s the SAME guy you ALL railed on for 18 months and said it would be Armageddon if he won. “See what he does?” Won’t it be too late? This is the WORST time in our history to let some lunatic do a test run at being President. By the way, everything I said in my last post are on Fraudbama’s agenda. Not an agenda I am going to put up with. Never. Look, if Larry just turned this into the Daily Kook equivalent, then great. I hope it works out. It’s not FAIR to try to push this nonsense on those of us who know better. Really, I’m not going to change. Neither is Fraudbama.

          • Louie

            Larry was pretty rough on Bush and Cheney, and well deserved, it’s one of the reasons I came here to read, his analysis was always very truthful and succinct in regard to the Bush administration actions, very courageous actually.

            (And Larry tolerates differing opinions, very few blogs are capable of saying the same).

            I expect he will be just as hard on Obama as he was on Bush. I despised Bush and Cheney, still do, but at a certain point I understood it’s about the country, and not the politician, the country still has to go on, politicians are simply a moment in time…

            And I hope to see the Bush administration prosecuted.

            Maybe we will say the same about Obama, too…

            In the meantime, to deliberatly undermine him is to undermine the country, all you can do is tell the truth to the best of your abilty, if they ignore it, and get it wrong, they fail, but it is of their own accord.

            • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

              There’s a really big difference between the Bush years and what is about to happen to us.

              • Louie

                I don’t know that I agree, but of course, I’ll wait and see.

                Bush, IMO, subverted democracy, deliberately, and it was handled — if Obama were to continue Bush’s methods, he would be handled the same, I suppose.

                • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                  I’m not always sure why every time we talk about Fraudbama we have to talk about Bush. Bush is gone. It’s over. You don’t fix a situation by throwing something like Fraudbama at it. That’s sort of unusual thinking IMO. So we have to punish America, and destroy it, because of Bush??? Ughhh…

                • Brendy

                  Comment by Louie | 2008-11-21 00:04:48

                  I don’t know that I agree, but of course, I’ll wait and see.

                  Bush, IMO, subverted democracy, deliberately, and it was handled — if Obama were to continue Bush’s methods, he would be handled the same, I suppose.
                  **

                  I have to laugh at talk like this. Obama got away WITH EVERYTHING while running for the presidency – and some of that stuff that is unknown about Obama COULD be possibly dangerous, but apparently, the media and most of the (stupid) Americans who elected him could, apparently, care less.

                  Whatever Obumer does or does not do and it doesn’t matter how wrong or bad it is for the country and us, he’ll NEVER get criticized. First of all, it would be considered ‘racist’ and second of all, Obama love-struck voters and the media will say that he (Obama) is ‘brillliant’ and that it MUST be somebody else’s fault. He’ll get his usual pass….tons of them.

    • Andy

      Yes Louie, I think that’s the plan…

      As I wrote in an earlier thread:

      LJ and Susan never waivered fighting this
      during the election. And as LJ writes we have now to live with BO as POTUS. Can’t fight him now –maybe by 2010 when he starts his reelection bid for 2012 if his presidency is bad for the country or …??? – but right now, this is the hand we were dealt.

      The country is serious trouble; things abroad ( Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Afghanistan) are dicey.
      So despite what we know about BO, how he and his supported conducted themselves and what happened this election cycle, imho we need to take a deep breath and try to focus on the issues that are important to us and the country and make this a forum to discuss what’s the best policy, person, course of action, in the next 4 years.

      If BO does sth. we agree with is good, then the better we will be. And if he doesn’t then this is the place to hold him accountable and record the wrong calls he makes for the next election.

      And let’s NEVER forget to call on the the MSM: what they did can never happen again.

    • elise

      He’s going to be president and there’s nothing I can do about it, but I don’t intend to give him any passes. Did it take the media five years to figure out GWB? They got it after his favorability fell and stayed below 40%. I read a book before he was elected the first time, Shrub by Molly Ivens, and it didn’t take a nuclear physicist to understand how bad he was.

      “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
      Thomas Jefferson”

  • http://ontheseventhday.wordpress.com/ oo12oo

    Well said, Mr. Johnson…yes, we may not like the fact that our candidate(s) fell short this election year, but in the final analysis we are all Americans. All the best to President-elect Obama and the Democrats, but they had better be careful not to allow their current swagger get the best of them in 2010 and 2012…The GOP is just in for some fresh tires and a tune up…

    http://ontheseventhday.wordpress.com/

    • Louie

      And to that end, they really have the chance now to redefine themselves, with new party leaders emerging.

      If it’s not simply a media ploy, it was heartening to see the GOP stand up to the big three, and say no, you dont get money without responsibility, the GOP behaving like real conservatives.

      We need the balance in American politics, it’s good for us, as a country, after Cheney’s spendthrift ways, to see SOMEONE try to stand up and put the brakes on, (maybe) acting independently of the consultants.

    • Reality not religion

      I don’t know who your candidate is/was, but my candidate, Sen Hillary Clinton, in no way “fell short. Anywhere.

      She was sabotaged, her character, intentions, and record were raped. She was savagely beaten unjustly by the media with the Obama camp at their backs praising the noose they were putting around her neck from day one.

      What was done to Hillary in the media, and is still being done to she and her husband, is a national travesty, an embarrassment to have to sit by and say I’m a part of a country that allowed this injustice to happen.

      She never fell short. The media and the Dem party took an ax and cut her off at the “cankles” and laughed about it.

      • Ani

        Amen.

  • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

    I agree with Larry’s expressed views on this, and I hope we can try not to repeat 1992-93, when many DEMS looked down their noses and Big Dawg and Hill and stewed in their resentment and failed to support our more liberal ideas until it was too late and Newt was at the head of a majority and we had to hold the line..

    People (who have CDS) always seem to leave that out when they talk about the perceived failures of those years ie DADT..

    I remember the DEMS attacking Bill and Hill and all the Quinnesque columns bashing them as rednecks..

    I want to get things done on our agenda, universal healthcare looks like a push by Baucus, picking up Hills plan without giving her credit

    Hill doesnt care if it gets done, let her take SoS, she will be fabulous, we need her hawky wonkish glory :0)

    anywho I hope we get past it enough to focus on our goals not the person we may feel resentment toward and rightfully so..

    I am thinking of things as ‘the incoming Administration’ FWIW -it helps :0)

    • catherine

      “I agree with Larry’s expressed views on this, and I hope we can try not to repeat 1992-93, when many DEMS looked down their noses and Big Dawg and Hill and stewed in their resentment and failed to support our more liberal ideas until it was too late and Newt was at the head of a majority and we had to hold the line..”

      You’re forgetting a HUGE difference..Clinton did NOT steal the primaries or the election. He won fairly. Obama is a thief and a fraud.

      • Andy

        You’re forgetting a HUGE difference..Clinton did NOT steal the primaries or the election. He won fairly.

        You got that right catherine. There is a big difference in how each got to be POTUS.

        • Andy

          And we are the witnesses of how that process went down.

          • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

            Yes I was a witness to, how does that change what we are discussing with Larry dudes?

            • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

              I mean are you two above saying we have a legitimate prosecutable offense, or series therof really, and so it is justifiable to block meaningful reform or progress on our agenda?
              That is the point I thought Larry was making, it is certainly the point I am making..when I said country first I meant that :0)

              • Louie

                The greater point is country first, not Obama first.

                Obama isn’t king, he’s president, part of three branches.

                If he chooses to ignore this, going the Cheney route, he will face the same problems Cheney did, the same failed Atwater tactics will drown him, as they did Dick.

                Flawed policy will not sustain a presidency.

                It was my impression Obama is perhaps the weakest President ever, the least prepared to assume the executive.

                What do you think this means for his adminstration?

                • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

                  I think it means we need peeps like HRC around him in key roles to hold us up and get r done !
                  :) )

  • hadenough

    BREAKING NEWS: Attorney General Mukasey collapses during speech in Washington AP

    Whats that about?

    • Louie

      Oh, I hope not.

      I hope he’s OK.

      • hadenough

        The full article from yahoo ap:

        Attorney General Mukasey collapses during speech
        AP – 1 minute ago

        WASHINGTON – Attorney General Michael Mukasey has collapsed during a speech and is being taken to a hospital.

        • Mr. Natural

          Any reports of lightning strikes?

          • Hope Floats! Flush Twice!

            You people are fucking priceless.

    • Reality not religion
    • rolling_thunder

      Wow- Lots of people ‘collapsing’ this year. Makes ya’ wonder.

      Let’s try to be civil to one another. Let’s try to avoid calling each other names

      I believe this is a good goal. I understand and appreciate the tone of the article. We have been through the ringer. It’s time to pick our battles.

      wishing him ill is not an appropriate approach.

      Yes it’ll only backfire. We have to make the best of the situation. We can watch and move forward with more grace. The name calling by nobama supporters has to stop.

  • Peggy Sue

    I’m reposting what I just wrote on an earlier thread:

    If Undercover Black Man keeps it civil then why not have him and other opposing opinions on the site. Otherwise, you end up with what we complained endlessly about: a giant echo chamber.

    Can I forgive and forget? On the former, perhaps. On the latter never. I will never look at the Democratic Party in the same way. I will never believe in the MSM. I will never support the present [so-called] women’s movement with money, effort or lipservice.

    But I have to say this:

    As an American citizen, I don’t want to be on the Titanic. I still honestly think that Obama, the Pope of Hope, is going to disappoint a whole lot of people. The hype, the expectations have been overblown by supporters and media alike. He’s Lincoln-like, FDR-like, JFK-like? Pul-e-e-ese! Buyer’s remorse is almost inevitable.

    But do I want him to fail miserably? No. I live here. I have children and one day I hope I’ll have grandchildren. If he needs to surround himself with seasoned Clinton supporters, with Hillary Clinton in the SOS spot, then do it. Bend Big Dawg’s ear, meet with the political opposition, track every competent, experienced person down. Do whatever is necessary to keep the boat afloat.

    I’m not looking to drown or go down with the ship in some kind of faux heroics.

    I’m still miserably disappointed with the choice, angry with everything that went down during the primary. But gleefully looking for political disaster? Color me silly but that seems self-destructive.

    There will no doubt be plenty of stuff to discuss and analyze. My one pressure point: lay off Hillary. The nasty, mean-mouthed sexism is over. I’m way beyond my tolerance level. And if the discussion degenerates to that, I’m out of here.

    I agree with Larry’s post: We have to deal with what is. That doesn’t make it easy, but it’s the raw reality now. We can’t get anywhere if we’re only looking in the rearview mirror.

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      As an American citizen, I don’t want to be on the Titanic.

      Then join some of us on the Carpathia for a cocktail. :mrgreen:

      • Peggy Sue

        Hummm. Considering the Carpathia’s fate, I think I’ll pass.

        But thanks for the invitation :0). Made me laugh!

        • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

          The ship did not sink along side the Titanic, did it? I’m only on it for this one voyage. ;)

          • Peggy Sue

            No, I think it sank several years later, Galt. So, if you’re only on for the single voyage, you’re okay.

            For myself, I’ll stick to the lighthouse. I’m a pretty good swimmer, but I’m not “that” good.

            • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

              -Maybe you missed the other thread where I mentioned we would hang out on the deck of the Carpathia drinking cocktails while we watch Captain Trainingwheels (Obama) pilot the Titanic into the abyss. The Carpathia was the rescue ship.

              • Louie

                The Carpathia was the rescue ship.

                That’s the truth, a big old 911…

    • Andy

      Good comment Peggy Sue!

      • Peggy Sue

        Thanks, Andy. It hasn’t been easy getting to this place. I have my seatbelt on, but I’m expecting a very bumpy ride.

    • bayareavoter

      I agree with your comment in every way. I identify more than ever with Ralph Nader. There’s too much money in our govt and the Dems are no different than the Rs in many ways.

      Am I glad the Rs are out of power after these awful 8 yrs? Of course. But i am mightily disappointed in the Dems and impeachment-is-off-the-table Pelosi.

      I love watching the netroots pull their hair out as the Big O picks one Clinton person after another. And Tom Dashiel? Oh, yeah, so much change you can believe in.

    • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

      agree, please come by my site anytime to read, I am trying to put up info as things come out from a moderate, let’s hope we succeed, but keep an eye on the foxes guarding the henhouse perspective :0)

      http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/

  • msliberal

    I have been following this blog for a very long time and I have never written before. Some will remember me from other blogs.

    Larry, it is your blog and you can do whatever you want to do with it. But you ask, then why in the hell are you commmenting…..Well, some your recent posts are bordering on stupidity. I understand the difference of opinion, the tolerance to each’s opinion. But, and we all have one, what to hell are you trying to do?

    It feels like you are sipping the kool-aid.

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      It feels like you are sipping the kool-aid.

      I disagree. I can’t speak for Larry, but these are my observations:

      I see Larry as trying to make the best of the situation. He has been a very vocal critic of Obama, but for him its time to move on in the general sense. And I don’t think he wants his blog to be exclusively siding with the opposition to Obama. I really don’t see Larry posting puff pieces about Obama ever, if that is what you might be thinking. He will continue to be a critic, but he also wants the country to succeed as best as we can under the circumstances we face.

      I think what he is doing makes sense from his point of view and is totally fair to the site visitors. They are still welcome to share their views. They are also free to blog elsewhere.

      • Mr. Natural

        We’re in this together. It’s as simple as that. Time to move forward.

    • cc

      yes..I’m getting the impression noquarter will soon go the way of taylor marsh very quickly.

      • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

        See above ^^^

      • MOmule

        cc – Baloney! NQ is an extremely sensible blog. Just compare it to HuffPo for example. Way back I used to enjoy reading HuffPo, and it was almost the first blog I ever posted on. Now I can’t even take a peek at it, it’s so awful. I keep thinking that Arianna will end up regretting what she allowed it to become, surely she must have lost a good chunk of viewers who will never return, including me!
        On the other hand, NQ has not changed since I started coming here. Why would it change now? Keep up the good work Larry. The difference here is that sanity is maintained and the grownups are in control.

        • AnninCA

          Arianna started off being a conservative. She’s a born-again progressive.

          To me? She’s just rigid. Just like she always was, except she switched horses.

          Ditto for KOS.

          They don’t know the real meaning of liberal.

    • Reality not religion

      You’ve never posted before and this is what you choose to start off with?

      well good luck with that! :roll:

    • Ani

      I am furious with Obama, I am furious with the DNC and the media — I have never felt such continuous rage in my life and I don’t think I can let it go. I am trying to find an effective way to channel it — keep speaking out, keep writing, and working in some small way to inform the debate. I am not giving up.

      I will never forgive or forget what happened this year. That said, I can promise you, Larry is not sipping the koolaid. If I thought otherwise, I could not stick around.

      And I agree with Peggy Sue above – even though I want the fraud out of there, if he is sworn in, as I believe he will be, the country comes first — let him get every Clintonista he can to make the place work again. America does not deserve to fail simply because half the voters bought a phony bill of goods. The rest of us who didn’t buy it don’t deserve to fail either.

      • AnninCA

        Well, I only know what works for me. I break stuff down.

        What I was offended by? Democratic party processes.

        Therefore, I want to see a real change in the party before I’ll ever claim being a Democrat again.

        The SD situation was unhealthy. I’m over it. Change it or else.

        Behind the scenes politicking while the public demands something else?

        I’m done with that.

        Stop polling us if you’re going to ignore us.

        So, we’re into real stuff now. I will be paying attention to actual bills presented, what is represented, and watch the accountability factor.

        The media is lost in a quagmire of political babble, where they think their job is to divine the true intentions of every single little move. They didn’t drink the kool-aid. They are, honestly, just plain ole’ stupid.

        So far, we still get actual information at times.

        The actions say it all

      • AnninCA

        Well, I only know what works for me. I break stuff down.

        What I was offended by? Democratic party processes.

        Therefore, I want to see a real change in the party before I’ll ever claim being a Democrat again.

        The SD situation was unhealthy. I’m over it. Change it or else.

        Behind the scenes politicking while the public demands something else?

        I’m done with that.

        Stop polling us if you’re going to ignore us.

        So, we’re into real stuff now. I will be paying attention to actual bills presented, what is represented, and watch the accountability factor.

        The media is lost in a quagmire of political babble, where they think their job is to divine the true intentions of every single little move. They didn’t drink the kool-aid. They are, honestly, just plain ole’ stupid.

        So far, we still get actual information at times.

        The actions say it all.

      • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

        right on Ani!!

        w00t!

  • Reality not religion

    It is beyond me the continued venom looking for a failed presidency.

    I don’t give 2 shits about Obama. I don’t like him and never did. But if he fails our country fails. And our country is in the tank at the moment.

    My income and lively hood are at stake right now and separate from that I really do and always have, loved my country.

    I cannot fuel my daily existance seething over this guy endlessly at this point. I do think he’s an arrogant prick but I need my country to succeed and he will be the president.

    I also have a lot of respect for some of the people he would be staffing himself with. I’ve liked them for years and the only I’ve had to hold against them is their support for the messiah.

    The vendetta of wanting to see bambi fail now, is at the risk of seeing our country in greater jeopardy than it already is……

    …. thanks to Bush

    • catherine

      If he fails he’s removed and the country goes on.

      I believe what many of us want is for Barky to get his comeuppence not by jeapardizing the country but by seeing that Nixon jr. held accountable for his numerous frauds.

      Yeah, I’ll say it. I want to see him exposed for all the damage he’s done and I would’nt mind seeing him impeached.

      • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

        I am with catherine. I pray that the BC issues have legs. But I also pray that all of his criminal acts are exposed quickly and he is impeached. How ridiculous for the people here who, for 18 months, have been calling Fraudbama a disaster to just sit back and send him some love. Wow. We still have until January 20th. A lot can happen. But if the worst happens, and he gets in there, no one will stop the millions of people who want him out and will expose him.

        • AOK

          There’s no millions of people wanting to expose him. Just a few nuts on the internet. Also, the BC has no legs. Berg will fail just like he did last month.

          • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

            Shows what you know about the BC. It’s not Berg that Fraudbama should be worried about necessarily. 17 lawsuits filed and the creep won’t show his real BC. Anyone defending that needs to have their IQ checked. He works for US. And, yeah, 50 Million people didn’t vote for Fraudbama and don’t want his nonsense.

            • TheAntiBigot

              Nearly 70 million did vote for him and they do want to see him in.

              • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                Troll…They’re not going to be happy about it either in about six months. When they figure out that the media and people like YOU sold them a pig in a poke they’re going to be pissed as hell. You will too when you get your head out of your azz and deal with truth. Your guy’s a deadbeat.

          • AnninCA

            No kidding. Those few make everyone else miserable, too.

            But….whatcha gonna do?

      • Wow

        Take your meds.

    • CT girl

      Well said! I have no love for Obama, but I hope he wins me over by turning this financial crisis around because this crisis is hitting my family hard! Ironically, the fact that he’s breaking his promise of “change” in DC by hiring Clinton staffers gives me “hope”.

      • Reality not religion

        thank you- and his choosing some Clinton staffers not only give me hope, but I think it’s a hoot! I love seeing he media seethe at him doing this when he promised them change!

        It cracks me up :)

      • lark

        I can also with him well for the sake of the country. But hiring Clinton staffers does not give me any hope. On the contrary it raises my hair. I could give him the benefit of the doubt if he was doing new things and different things by which we couldn’t tell by any means if he would be successful or not. That way I could hope positively that some of those being appointed would be extremely successful even if others would not. But trying to play it safe now by appointing so called experienced and experts. That tells me that chances are things will get worse. I want to feel the uncertainty of newness and not the assurance of regurgitated wise guys.

  • HARP

    The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it.

    • rolling_thunder

      I like that. We saw this first hand…the election opened some eyes.

  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

    Larry I am not surprised at the vitriol and lesser gripes at all. I feel it was a mistake to lay down such an overt welcome mat to someone many here feel is one of the worst race baiters during the campaign! This is also bad timing. It may be a bit too soon to open the floodgates. Larry, as you know I admire and respect you very much and herding cats is obviously impossible. But I really think this was a big mistake.

    Hindsight being 20/20 this is what I would do: I would have waited a bit longer then made an announcement of new rules and guidelines. I would have then mentioned everyone who was banned is welcome to come back, as long as they remain civil. I would have asked the regulars to bear with me as we try to begin to come together as a nation. I would NOT have used any one previously banned person as an example and I certainly would not have laid down a huge welcome mat for them. As someone like your example began to post, I would intervene as moderator when they were attacked and would remind people of the new post-election guidelines. We may not be able to herd cats but we don’t need to throw a mouse into a room of them who have been starving for a year.

    I won’t say anything rude to those returning that I dislike. I’ll skim over their comments and refrain from engaging them. That’s my answer. I think that will work for me.

    Respectfully, Galt. :shock:

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Galt,
      I appreciate your passion. If we can bridge this gulf then their might be hope for the Israelis and the Palestinians.

      • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

        Excellent point! That would be a nice thing indeed!

        Well, speaking of cats, the cat’s out of the bag. I do not fault your motives one quadrillionth of a speck of an iota (that’s puny!). :mrgreen:

  • Mandelay

    Bravo Larry! You speak with strength and confidence and encourage all of us to keep our heads clear even when emotions threaten our thinking. America needs all of us to pull together for her success …. even as we always keep an eye on anything Obama might do to harm her. Smart. Practical. Country First.

    • AOK

      Nobody gets elected to harm the country. Bush had good intentions and failed miserably. It’s Obama’s turn now. I believe, just like the 67 plus million people who voted for him, that he has America’s best interests at heart. Just give him space and watch him work.

      • WildChild

        Tom Delay used to like to say that the president (george bush) knew what was best for the country.

        ol george had space…

        and we watched him work…

  • HARP

    Chickens coming home to roost:

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – The Associated Press plans to cut up to 10 percent of its workforce in 2009, according to sources at the news service, as it copes with tough financial times and ailing member newspapers.

    The AP has one of the world’s largest news-gathering teams, employing about 3,000 journalists, and a total of about 4,100 people worldwide. The cuts could amount to about 400 employees.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4AJ7V420081120?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

    • andrew191

      I’m sure there’s a market for their talents. They can go to the classifieds and look under “Prevaricaters wanted”.

      • andrew191

        That may have been the inspiration far Obama to run for Pres.

  • msliberal

    “America needs all of us to pull together for her success” Do not give me this shit, countries and ships are called “her” because they used to be controlled by men.

    Obama needs to fail! No if’s, and’s or but’s about it. Our country needs to know that the presidency should be held by those who love this country and by those who are qualified to lead this country. (there is a little thing called the constitiution that just maybe he should read.) The presidency can not be bought, borrowed or stolen.

    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

      Thank you msliberal. My thoughts exactly. I feel like I’m on another planet listening to this stuff. Wow-ee.

      • Wow

        I feel like you’re on another planet too.

    • AOK

      She was right in that respect. Americans do need to pull together for this country to succeed. The neocons did a good job of dividing America and you seem to follow that mindset. Why don’t you move to some other country if you’re not happy here? Mexico or Canada is not to far away.

    • KathyNeocon

      I agree msliberal. Americans obviously need to learn the hard way that you don’t choose a President based on lofty, empty rhetoric and style over substance. Were going to get taken to the woodshed under Obama…so be it. I didn’t vote for him, but I’ll accept the consequences because I’m not going anywhere. I want him to fail. He and his supporters deserve it.

    • TheAntiBigot

      If Obama fails America fails. If America fails, the West fails. Obama will not fail, he already handed the Rethugs their arse.

  • hadenough

    First ap now politico’s mike allen:
    Clinton to be named Secretary of State

    If true I’ll have a lot of hats to eat and matthews, hitchens and the rest are gonna be royally pissed.

    • catherine

      The Gotham Rag previously known as the NYT just reported that the Senate is willing to offer Hillary some leadership role to keep her from accepting SoS.

      Something really fishy is going on. Whatever it is I hope Hillary does whatever is best for her and maneuvers herself into a strategically powerful position.

      Oh and spare me the “Hillary has to do what’s best for the country” crap! If so many so called democrats really cared about what was best for the country they would’nt have voted for that Chicago pol on Nov 4th.

      • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

        At this point I will be happy if she is picked or not. I can laugh at whomever is whining the most about it. :shock: I can send ‘em a crow pizza. :mrgreen:

      • rolling_thunder

        Something really fishy is going on

        You betcha! Hillary filed a lawsuit on October 27th about nationwide, systemic voter fraud. Hillary needs to replace Harry Reid and ask for Pelosi to step down.
        Now that’s change we can believe in! .Americans will swoon over this move.
        :lol:

    • Andy

      hadenough:

      matthews, hitchens and the rest are gonna be royally pissed.

      I would love that; anything to make them be royally pissed.

      • Peggy Sue

        Ditto for me. Anything that aggravates the progressive/regressive choir will make me smile.

        But I’ll be nice and very civil!

        Loved Matthews comment that he “was going to do everything possible to make sure this administration was successful.”

        According to him, that’s his job.

        Chris Matthews, King maker. Who knew????

        Bet he’s hoping for Press Secretary. I remember hearing he was pissed he didn’t get the job during the Clinton administration.

        Hope springs eternal. And, who knows? It just may work.

    • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

      would you like some salt or pepper with your hats?

  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

    Okay…On Fox talking about the Fairness Doctrine, which will be the end of our First Amendment. So does everyone support taking away our Freedom of Speech? It’s already starting people. So, what, everyone’s going to sing Kumbaya My Lord in farewell to our right to criticize Fraudbama?

    • hadenough

      Okay…On Fox talking about the Fairness Doctrine, which will be the end of our First Amendment.

      Did they get to the war on christmas yet? Anyway how would the “Fairness Doctrine … be the end of our First Amendment” ?

      • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

        Maybe you should read up on what Fraudbama intends for our country instead of the snark about Christmas. Do you know anything about the Fairness Doctrine? It would put Hannity, O’Reilly, Rush, etc. out of business and off the air. You might not like what they have to say but too bad for you. They have the right to say it under the First Amendment. Well, buh bye to that. Go read up on it.

        • hadenough

          Do you know anything about the Fairness Doctrine?

          Not really. I know its a boogy man the rightwing likes to drag out every so often.

          Fox is not our friend. They have the resources to have looked closely at barry’s many illegal donations but chose not to. fox has the resources to look very closely at barry but chose not to. There are endless things fox could have really dug in to but they didn’t. Thanks fox.

          • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

            It’s not a boogy man rightwing nonsense thing. Where do you get that? Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, you name it…are trying to push it through AS WE SPEAK. Ughhh…I wish people paid attention. Do I need to post video here of Nancy Pelosi talking about it?

            Fox did the best they could. Hannity CONTINUES to let Fraudbama have it. Everyone could have done better to expose Fraudbama. Last night I interviewed a 23 year old dogsitter. I asked her why she voted for Fraudbama. She said because he gave good speeches. WTF? This is the dumbing down of America that cost us this election.

            • TheAntiBigot

              The fairness doctrine means allowing the other voice a say. Simple as. Even a Rethugh should be able to understand that. It does not change the constitution.

          • Reality not religion

            ding ding ding ding! well said and excellent points!

          • Brendy

            hadenough – apparently you don’t even watch Fox News – THEY are the ONLY ones who tried to vet Obama; NONE of the other stations did. So you think the ‘rightwing’ have NO rights to free speech on the air waves BUT that the ‘leftwing’ DO have rights???

          • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

            yes and now that HRC is tapped as Sos, Faux is back to Clinton bashing, every sentence ends with, and remember how they stole the silver and Ws from the WH!!! Rush brought it up too, tsk tsk, floating 16 yr old lies, pathetic

            those lying frakkers

        • Peggy Sue

          I understand it’s “localism” that may sink that the right-wing talk radio dingy. And that is already in place through the FCC. Very clever when you think about it. No need to rush a Fairness Doctrine through [despite Pelosi's affection for it]. Use what’s on the books and tweak it for your own advantage. Undermine things from the inside out. This is why I think being in the lighthouse is more important than cheering for the Titanic to sink.

          Am I a fan of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity? No. Do I think they have a right to spout the opposing view, regardless of how outrageous? Absolutely.

          We need eyes wide open from here on in.

      • shadow

        It dictates to what people can talk about on talk radio hence loss of their freedom of speech.

        • hadenough

          The Fairness Doctrine tells radio stations what their talk shows have to talk about?

          From wiki:
          The Fairness Doctrine was a policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) that required the holders of broadcast licenses to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was honest, equitable, and balanced. The United States Supreme Court upheld the Commission’s general right to enforce such a policy where channels were limited, but the courts have generally not ruled that the FCC is obliged to do so.[1] In 1987, the FCC abolished the Fairness Doctrine, prompting some to urge its reintroduction through either Commission policy or Congressional legislation.[2]
          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

          Sounds great to me but again I don’t really know a lot about it.

          • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

            It sounds great to you to have free speech removed? It was created way back at the beginning of television because so few people controlled it. It has absolutely ZERO use today other than the wicked witch Pelosi and her left wing pals trying to suppress conservative talk radio. How can you call yourself AMERICAN and advocate taking away people’s right to free speech? That is one of the jewels of America’s crown and it’s an absolute right.

          • shadow

            It would make conservative radio programs present liberal views too. Even tho those people doing those programs are not liberals. So, it dictates what someone can say on their own program. Not really fair in my mind. More like censorship.

            • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

              It is censorship and it’s a slippery slope to let the Dems start this nonsense. When does it end? I’m really shocked to hear someone say “sounds good to me” to prevent free speech.

            • Reality not religion

              don’t read half of what the wiki page said.

              it says “issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was honest, equitable, and balanced”

              I realize that’s something Repubs are against but in the end the article says it’s not in place at the moment.

              it also says i requested this tactic “only in markets that have limited channels”

              My impression is they are saying if there are only 3 stations in your small town, they can’t (or shouldn’t) all be liberal or all be republican..

              either way, the “act” is not in place at the moment and leave it to something like Fox to go overboard with their view of the topic just as they rammed Natalie Hollway’s disappearance down the public’s throat everytime something bad was going on with Bush and they didn’t want to be a real news outlet and have to discuss it.

              • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                Ughhh…Why don’t you google “fairness doctrine” and do some homework. It seems that you guys are okay with losing your freedom of speech, but most people aren’t. No, it’s not active NOW – I never SAID that. Pelosi, Feinstein, and I think four other liberal wing nuts are trying to reenact it NOW. If it passes it will be a mess because they will also STRETCH it to keep people from blogging against Fraudbama. That’s the other intent of it. Really, if you care about your rights do some homework on it. It’s really scary to those of us who want our rights protected. And you people need to stop making everything a “repug” issue. This is about being AMERICAN. It has nothing to do with party.

                • Reality not religion

                  My post was directed at Shadow’s post not yours.

                  I can’t have a conversation with people I find highly irrational on every level so I tend to skip over those posts.

                  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                    What part of protecting the First Amendment is “irrational?” I’m not sure you can really claim that when you know nothing about what it is, who is trying to pass it, and what the bigger ramifications are.

                  • andrew191

                    RnR, the “fairness doctrine” is an Orwellian term for censorship, it’s that simple. The spirit of the first amendment was pecisely targetted toward political concepts. Currently the only thing that limits liberal points of view on the radio is profit for the stations. If there was a popular liberal radio host he would be given the same opportunity to profit in the market. Just because you don’t like Rush or Medved et. al., does not give you or the government the right to restrict what the rest of us wish to listen to. And I don’t subscribe to the argument that the “Airways” belong to the public. That’s bullshit! Meaningful radio waves are a man made commodity, thay don’t exist naturally, so the content of those waves belong to the station creating them, just as my thoughts written here belong to me, I’m just sharing them. Are you going to demand that I have a person with an opposing viewpoint sit next to me and immediatly write a rebuttle to what I’ve just written? THAT’S YOUR JOB if you choose to do it! The key word there was “choose”, and freedom of choice is what we’ll lose with the corrosive fairness doctrine.

                    • WildChild

                      The airwaves belong to the public. radio companies lease band width from the US government.

                    • andrew191

                      The band widths need to be regulated so that radio stations don’t try to overwhelm each other on the same band. And yes, they lease the rights to each band. The radio signals and the content within them are the creation and property of their creator. If you think that the fairness doctrine is a good idea, then I’m sure the distinction is beyond you.

                • Louie

                  I remember “hate radio” only started when the right wing pulled the Fairness Doctrine, under Reagan, I think.

                  So your arguments ring hollow, it was, in fact, very successful in regard to maintaining fairness, and balance, in the media.

                  (Hate radio from either side, Air America, or Rush, and his clones).

                  • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                    Reagan vetoed it. Sorry. There’s no GOOD reason to bring it back. If you can find one, let me know.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Hello OIAF

                      There are two issues that if Obama pursues will lose me forever

                      1. The fairness doctrine

                      2.Prosecuting and investigating those that kept us safe for the past 8 years.

                      Don’t go there Obama!!

                    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                      Yeah and I love the Obot troll calling me “irrational” when he/she/it had no idea WTF is it, and that it has been a huge talking point through this whole election. I can’t believe people like this sit here and say “fairness doctrine?” I don’t know what it is, but it sounds good to me. Very frustrating.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Beware of any laws that have the word Doctrine attached to it.

                      Another word for government control

                    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                      I keep forgetting that the Obots are stupid enough to bend over and take what Fraudbama shoves and smile as he does it.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      That is a pretty accurate description of the reality.

                      Obamabots like pain..

                      They want National Suicide!!

                    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                      I’ve really never seen more vile people in my life. WTF?

                    • Seattle Moss

                      I’m just glad I stocked up on good soup..This is the big one!

                    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                      LOL Larry and Susan opened the floodgates and it’s a literal troll attack here. Wow. I better stock up too. Although I do think the best idea is to go sailing off on Galt’s ship and watch the Fraudbama Titanic sink. Cocktails on the Lido deck at 8 PM!

                    • Seattle Moss

                      I will look for you on the lido deck

                  • KathyNeocon

                    What bunch of crap. The so-called Fairness Doctrine is nothing more than a liberals scheme to censor conservative and Christian talk radio.

                    • WildChild

                      it’s a progressive scheme. The freedom of speech is a core component of the liberal agenda.

                    • KathyNeocon

                      What freedom of speech? If you say one viewpoint you must present an opposing viewpoint under the Fairness Doctrine. Where’s the freedom of speech? With liberals it’s a one-way street.

                    • WildChild

                      with progressives it’s a one way street. Liberals made the freedom of speech a core component of their agenda

                    • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                      Exactly Kathy…WTF is up with all the Obot trolls and this nonsense? It’s nothing but wing nut agenda to stop people from talking about poor little OBambi.

              • Andy

                By the way: the “idea” of the Farness Doctrine is what NPR thinks they are doing. But look at how they behave in this election?
                Many of them were rabidily pro-BO. Noone was pro HRC or por McC openly as the others and yet do you think anyone would hold them accountable for not being “balanced” ???

                On the other side of the coin you have what Bush tried to do to PBS first term via its appointed CEO. It didn’t work.

                Also this idea of “balanced views” are sometimes absurd. For example on many issues (foreign reporting or even here say between creationists vs evolution) what they do is they bring one person of each side and they divide the time 50% each. But that is hardly representative the reality or strength of each side/argument.

                I think it is a bad bad bad idea.
                (no matter how good the “intention” is).

            • KathyNeocon

              Well said shadow. That’s exactly right–it’s censorship, with its makeup on and hair done so it looks pretty and non-threatening on the outside.

          • Andy

            I disagree with regulating what radio programs should or should not do. Besides : (1) who determines what’s balanced? and (2) who’s going to police this?.

            I understand the idea but it would be a bad policy. Besides I am pretty much fed up and distrust anything that contains the word DOCTRINE.

          • Brendy

            “required the holders of broadcast licenses to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was honest, equitable, and balanced.”

            THIS is the reason Obama fears right wing talk radio; EVERYTHING they TRIED to bring to light about Obama WAS controversial and they had FACTS to back it up. The truth was getting told about him, and Obama DID NOT WANT THAT! THIS is why he wants ‘certain’ people’s right of free speech taken away!

            Now, just think of all the crooks, thieves, terrorists and EVIL people that can become our presidents, senators, congressmen….we won’t be able to hear the ‘truth’ about them. How great is that????!!!

      • Reality not religion

        “Did they get to the war on christmas yet?”

        lmao :)

    • AOK

      The Fairness Doctrine is the latest in a long line of Neocon boogie man. It’s not needed. Hannity, Rush and the rest of the right-wing nuts will simply talk themselves into irrelevance on their own. Especially if Obama has a successful presidency.

      • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

        AOK…If you’re going to be an Obot TROLL you might want to get edumacated about stuff like the Fairness Doctrine and stop the lies and BS. We’re smarter than that.

        Washington Prowler
        Her Royal Fairness

        SALEM’S WITCH TRIAL

        According to two members of the House Democrat Caucus, Reps. Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer have informed them that they will “aggressively pursue” reinstatement of the so-called Fairness Doctrine over the next six months. In January, Democrat presidential candidate Rep. Dennis Kucinich announced that he was going to pursue the Fairness Doctrine through his Government Reform subcommittee. That announcement was greeted with silence. But now, Pelosi has moved things to the front burner.

        Much of the doctrine, regulated through the FCC, was largely dumped in 1987. Other parts of it, related to “personal attack” rule and the “political editorial” rule, remained in place until 2000. The personal attack rule required anyone “attacked” over the airwaves to be notified beforehand and given an opportunity to respond. A similar rule was followed for the political editorial, where a broadcaster endorsing one political candidate or issue had to give similar time for a response from those not endorsed or supported.

        The decision to press for re-establishment of the Fairness Doctrine now seems to have developed for two reasons. “First, [Democrats] failed on the radio airwaves with Air America, no one wanted to listen,” says a senior adviser to Pelosi. “Conservative radio is a huge threat and political advantage for Republicans and we have had to find a way to limit it. Second, it looks like the Republicans are going to have someone in the presidential race who has access to media in ways our folks don’t want, so we want to make sure the GOP has no advantages going into 2008.”

        That last comment appeared to be a veiled reference to former Sen. Fred Thompson, who appears to be gearing up for a presidential run. Over the past year, he has built a following both over the AM airwaves through the ABC Radio network, as well as through almost daily appearances across cable TV on the TV show Law & Order, where he plays a tough-talking district attorney.

        According to another Democrat leadership aide, Pelosi and her team are focused on several targets in the fight, including Rush Limbaugh and the Salem Radio Network. In fact, Kucinich’s staff has begun investigating Salem, one of the fastest growing radio networks in the country, which features such popular — and highly rated — conservative hosts as Bill Bennett and Michael Medved, and Christian hosts such as Dr. Richard Land.

        “They are identifying senior employees, their political activities and their political giving,” says a Government Reform committee staffer. “Salem is a big target, but the big one is going to be Limbaugh. We know we can’t shut him up, but we want to make life a bit more difficult for him.”

        • KathyNeocon

          Bless you OIAF.

          “Conservative radio is a huge threat and political advantage for Republicans and we have had to find a way to limit it. Second, it looks like the Republicans are going to have someone in the presidential race who has access to media in ways our folks don’t want, so we want to make sure the GOP has no advantages going into 2008.”

          Spoken by that pillar of moderation and fairness, Nancy Pelosi. :shock: Like I postede before, the Fairness Doctrine is nothing more than the extremist liberals’ attempt to censor conservative talk radio. End of story. They can take their First Amendment rights and shove them up there ***, because the liberals only apply those rights to themselves. Everyone else gets censored.

          • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

            Bless you too KathyNeoCon…This is the stuff that makes me NEVER accept these freaks and certainly not Fraudbama as my “President.” If anyone tries this nonsense with this CRAP of a “Fairness Doctrine” then I am the first person protesting in DC. This is that B**tch Pelosi’s pet project and she won’t stop until every little freedom of speech the GOP has is eradicated. I hope in 2010 she flies off on her broom to obscurity where she belongs. And the Obots who are so stupid – like the ones here tonight – won’t notice that their freedoms are being taken away until they’re already gone.

          • WildChild

            you truly sound like a conservative nutbag when you see every perceived threat against you as liberal. Liberals wrote the first amendment, just like we wrote the forth amendment. no liberal would wage war on either one.

            But a progressive would. As would a conservative.

            • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

              You can call it what you want. Nancy Pelosi is a liberal/progressive, whatever…Are you saying she’s a Republican?

              • WildChild

                no, i’m saying she’s a progressive. I’m a liberal and I’m getting little tired of you lumping me in with them. There’s a difference. Unfortunately for all of us the same brain children that brought us george bush were s full of themselves that they tared everyone left of them as liberal and in he process blurred the difference. But the center was to the left of them, and the center is liberal.

                • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                  Okay…you have to understand something…To be honest with you, I don’t really know the difference. Sorry. I don’t know what to say to you. I find it really egregious that ANYONE would think about violating my freedom of speech. If it were McCain I would be pissed too. But it seems that the people who are more concerned with Gun Bans, taking away Free Speech, etc. are the LEFT. So, in order for us to be pals here, what would you like me to say? I can’t really call them Republicans because that’s a lie. And you don’t need to throw Bush at me. I didn’t vote for him either time. I am a little tired of every time we bring up the left assassinating our rights, the conversation goes RIGHT back to Bush. Bush isn’t my problem anymore. I’m looking at my future and my rights being eradicated by some people who are way too far to the left for this country.

                  • KathyNeocon

                    The far left is the same as the far right, but with longer hair (LOL). They’re Fascists. Just look at the Prop 8 opponents out here in CA. They’ve been terrorizing those who supported Prop 8, blacklisting them and trying to get them fired from their jobs when all they did was exercise their right and vote–and these are so-called liberal/progressives??!!! My ***! They’re domestic terrorists. I had one dig up my e-mail from a Prop 8 donor list, and send me a nasty threatening e-mail at work telling me I’m on some boycott/blacklist.

                  • WildChild

                    the liberal agenda is laid out in the US constitution. It’s the charter of this liberal democracy. A liberal believse in all of it, every last word. Progressives and conservative on the other hand have problems with parts of it and attempt to convince others tht we should to ignore those parts. Progressives have serious problems with the war making powers of the government as well as the second amendment. Conservatives have problems with the taxation power and spending power of the government and now it seems the forth amendment. Both are free to amend the constitution yet both refrain from doing so because they are bunch of hypocrites. They dispise these powers when others have them, but want them when they are in power.

                  • AnninCA

                    Actually, there’s an article today on RCP that suggests that progressive return to the name, liberal.

                    :)

                    See, once in awhile, I agree with you.

                    A broken watch is right at least twice a day.

            • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

              By the way WildChild…WTF? I just reread my own post and the word “liberal” wasn’t in it. No offense but it was in Kathy’s post but you attacked me. Ughhh….

              • WildChild

                check the thread line. I responded to Kathy’s post. we are not nested until you respond to me. but it was in your post that you referred to pelosi as a liberal/progressive

                • http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com OBAMA IS A FRAUD

                  I think you misunderstood. But never mind. Like I said, I don’t know who I’m supposed to call a liberal or a progressive. So now I will just say the LEFT. And since you are in the CENTER, you won’t be offended.

                  • WildChild

                    sounds good to me

  • rightagain

    Been away for awhile reading “The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism” by Naomi Klein. After reading some of the blogs, I recommend that it would be a useful use of brain power for some of our friends to read this book. Why? We need to understand what is happening in our financial markets. This is the endgame for the “Chicago School” of Milton Friedman in this country. Or should be. If that doesn’t make any sense to you, or is over your head, then quit ruminating about the election and get on to the real matter at hand. We ARE on the Titanic and have been dancing while the rest of the world has been privatized, deregulated, wealth spread,and poverty trickeled down in all the nascent democracies on the planet. Its our turn now. The worm has turned. I am concerned that the “shock doctrine” is going to be applied soon, taking advantage of the market melt-down. Larry, do you think we can get a commentary going on this? In the “old days” at NQ, before the election, this site was the premier muck-racker of the Bushies. Its now time to resurrect the detectives, and get on the case, as the real story of the day is the economy. Kudos to Ms. Klein.

    • Louie

      I would say they have destroyed themselves.

      Perhaps the “myopic, self destructive, psychologically kooked, dumbest mofos on the earth doctrine” would be better name.

      They’re just too dumb to get it.

    • Tristan

      It’s not that simple and anyone who rings the death bell for capitalism had better let us know what will replace it. The problem was not capitalism but widespread corruption.

      Let’s just start with the accounting firms. Every investment bank that failed had audited accounting statements. Do you think any of those audit opinions said “Oh by the way this bank will be gone in a year”? But accounting firms are paid by company management to give good opinions and that’s what they do.

      Then let’s go to the credit rating agencies. Again, they are paid by the issuers of the bonds they rate. I have a bond and some money. If I give you the money will you rate my bond AAA? Then other people will give me more money for my bond. Its so transparent its pathetic.

      Now let’s head to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Their job is to package mortgages into securities and sell them to investors. Step 1, package. Step 2, sell. But they didn’t sell. At the time of their collapse they were sitting on trillions of dollars of securities. Why? Because management ran the numbers and realized it was potentially more profitable to hang onto them and more profits meant better bonuses for management.

      That’s just three actors. Do we get into the real estate appraisal industry? The mortgage industry and the liar loans? The SEC who approved 30:1 leverage for the five biggest investment banks, all of which have collapsed? Bank and insurance company regulators who clearly set inadequate capital requirements? A tax code that encourages everyone to buy million dollar homes? Investment managers who bid up the price of oil and other commodities to nosebleed levels at the worst possible time tipping us into recession?

      That’s the real story. Now everyone with an axe to grind about capitalism is out in the street yelling about how the system failed. Yeah it failed, but unless you want a totalitarian government to tell you where to work, where to live, what car to drive, etc you better hope that someone can put humpty dumpty back together, because capitalism is freedom. Its the only system where you make decisions about how you earn and spend your money, not some bureaucrat or party official.

      Many economists say that FDR prolonged the depression by five to seven years and that’s exactly what’ll happen this time if the socialists start using this crisis as the excuse to dismantle the free enterprise system and spread the “wealth” or more accurately the misery around. The obvious fix is to encourage new business formation, lower taxes, and get rid of corruption in both the private and public sector. Have you heard Obama or Nancy Pelosi saying any of those things?

  • Ashy1

    Re: Undercover Black Man + vitriol = bad karma

  • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

    I’m as resigned to the Obama Presidency as I was to Bush’s.

    I believe BO needs to be exposed, so that the next time around both Parties will think twice about giving us such problematic and unqualified candidates.

    • Reality not religion

      No they won’t. as an independent I always try to ‘vet’ the candidates for myself. I liked Clinton and I liked Reagan. I liked Gore but had no clue who this guy was from Texas named Bush other than the son of the 1st Bush who I didn’t like.

      I used the “internets” to read up on this fella and found out he wasn’t the prized intellect nor politician in the family. That was actually Jeb. Ole George wanted to be a baseball team owner and travel the country watching baseball games. He had NO INTEREST in politics when he was grabbed by Rovian’s ilk and made into a politician.

      He also ran his presidency based on his governorship success which was a fraud. His “no child left behind” bullshit was, well, bullshit!

      The teachers and administrators in Texas, some, tried to come forward and say what a fraud it was to claim this program was a success, but they were shut up and shut down quickly. Some of us heard them before their tongues were cut out, but most of America didn’t.

      I read a few other unsavory things about the guy and his climb to politics that were brow raising and needless to say side stepped him for the person i liked in the 1st place, Gore.

      No nothing will change because Americans are in a hole with the mentality of how they think and decide things. They listen to speeches, listen to their pastor and do what their told.

      Nothing’s going to change, I don’t foresee it changing in my lifetime. In order to research a candidate you need to read up and study the situation.. and first you need to know how to read and comprehend.

  • Cubs in 09

    …ships are called “her” because they used to be controlled by men.

    A ship is referred to as “she” or “her” because it comes from the German word “die Schiffe.” In German “die” means “the” and is grammatically “feminine.” Many languages use “gender” to distinguish how nouns function grammatically. Spanish has “el” and “la.” French has “le” and “la.” Some languages have “neuter” nouns. The “gender” of a noun usually has nothing to do with it’s intrinsic characteristics unless it’s natural. Words such as “man” and “woman” are obviously “masculine” and “feminine.”

    Sorry to sound pedantic, but—being a foreign language teacher—I just had to respond. :mrgreen:

  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

    Maybe you missed the other thread where I mentioned we would hang out on the deck of the Carpathia drinking cocktails while we watch Captain Trainingwheels (Obama) pilot the Titanic into the abyss. The Carpathia was the rescue ship.

    • Cubs in 09

      Wunderbar, Galt! :-D

  • NCgirl

    I hope with all hope that our country doesn’t go to “hell in a handbasket” while Obama is president. I expect there will be changes that will not be positive but nonetheless will happen. It is my wish that Obama gets his “comeuppance” while he is in the White House. He needs to learn that elections shouldn’ be bought or stolen. He seriously needs to learn some humility. Most of all, he needs to learn how to treat women. Obama looks as if he has aged 5 or 6 years already. I expect he has been told some things in those briefings that has scared the s..t out of him. He knows that he is the one that is going to be sitting behind that desk in the Oval Office, and good or bad, it will all be on him.

    • cc

      amen..I agree 100 percent.

  • rickya

    I agree with Larry that we should hope and pray that Obama succeeds. I also agree that we should judge him based on what he does and not what he did. But I think that previous behavior is a good predictor of future behavior – and although I wish him success, I don’t expect it.

    We should all be ready to help to take Obama down when necessary – I mean when he proves to be a monumental failure. I think that in this event, we should support the Democratic candidate willing to challenge him in the primaries in 2012. If he proves us right and his presidency becomes a disaster, we should not take his nomination as Democratic candidate for President as a forgone conclusion. The fight should start there.

  • msliberal

    Comment by Cubs in 09 | 2008-11-20 23:24:56

    Yes, and your point is? He used to refer to males and females…………..We are not living in the used to be, we are living in the now.

    I never realized that this blog was so slow to post comments. Guess three strikes and your out, ( my third post didn’t show up.)

    Going back to just reading……………I don’t care what you say, that person who just bought the presidency will never be my president.

    • Cubs in 09

      My point is that ships are not referred to “she” because they use to be controlled by men. That’s just plain wrong. You can’t just make stuff up.

      • Cubs in 09

        …referred to as “she”…

        • Cubs in 09

          “…used to be…”

          Oh, brother! This dang keyboard isn’t working tonight! ;)

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      Going back to just reading……………I don’t care what you say, that person who just bought the presidency will never be my president.

      I’m with you. My vote was made meaningless by criminals. He is an illegitimate president and I will continue to speak out against him. But I also think we don’t need an isolated environment per se to share our views. This will never become an Obama worship site like many others. The Oborgbots will try and assimilate us into their collective madness group-think but we will never submit and will laugh at them every step of the way. Join in the fun! ;)

      • Cubs in 09

        Bravo, Galt, bravo!

        Cat Herding Supplies

        :lol:

  • ces

    Larry,

    Please pardon me for making this suggestion publicly, but I’m curious to others impressions…but you’ve got my email, please use it if you want.

    The unique thing about NQ is that it became a place of refuge for people on BOTH sides of the aisle to escape the rabidness of their parties. We had a common “enemy” in Obama, for a myriad of reasons, some valid, some not so much. And yes, we also had the Obot trolls and the cool-dead-hand Repugs along for the ride, who just wanted to stir the pot.

    But for the most part, we had people with REASON at their core. New and even differing opinions were welcomed, as long as personal threats, etc were used. I don’t agree with the identity/gender worshiping/promotion, whether it’s Obama or Hillary, but I could always look past people well-meaning “it’s about time [person/class/race] got [job]” talk pretty easily. I don’t have to agree with everything to enjoy the site. But talking issues and having fun with it is what makes NQ special. Most regular NQ regulars don’t try to hijack threads or use the same lame distractions or attacks that results in incivility.

    It’s so easy to say, Ignore Them. But how do you tell all the new visitors that these people are “those” people and that their comments are “incivil” and don’t represent what we’ve built for NQ? Using the Magic Delete Key means we’re not better than the Cheetos, but there are other sites that have a “mild” rating system that shows a communities general impression of that comment. It turns green when the approved, or gets dimmed when down-rated. So it’s not cenorship per se, because those comments are still legible, but it begins to say, “hey, buddy, what you just say ain’t cool.”

    For reasons, we now know, the Skipper has been away from the wheel here at NQ. And that has meant the USS NQ has been all over the place, from the BC issue to kittens to what kind of pencil Hillary uses (well almost). And by doing so, we pick up the parasites, or trolls, whatever. Even with all them aboard this great vanquard in REASON, I haven’t seen one post that has the vitriol that the Cheeto-Marsh-Padland have had. The authors and regular contributors haven’t brought the venom. It’s the people who come here (and stay) just to stir the pot that cause the problems. It’s the same on every blog. Other blogs get dragonian on their asses, which isn’t good. But giving them their own meta-space just sets it up that they’ll use their celebrity to continue their disruption of important topics.

    Sometimes the “leaderless” or “lost” need a leader. So we wander around aimlessly just kinda pushin’ things and people out of our way. Then we start feeling a nudge on our backsides telling us which way NOT to go, but it doesn’t tell us which way to go. So we scurry on again, lookin’ for the next shadow to hide under…until we get ‘tazzed again (bro) for breaking another rule.

    Maybe what we in the NQ plateau is a “leader”, telling us which direction he/she/they are headed. Some of us will still stray, trip, fart and vomit-we’re human. But mostly we pay attention and share our marbles.

    Point is, Larry, put up a post about what YOU have been thinking the site should become or what direction you want to head now that the hit count is healthy, instead of using the naughty stick on those of us who stray from the unmarked path?

    You had all cylinders smokin’ before the election, and now…”we need to play nice”? We don’t need den mothers, but c’mon if you think we’re just wrestling around in the mud, stick a cosmic carrot in front of our face and lead us to the promised land.

    So, now that he’s in, what have you and your people been saying we should be worried about, looking forward to…in regards to “our security.”

    NoBS. NoQ.

    • ces

      s/b as long as personal threats, etc were NOT used

    • ces

      And I should add, your “direction” doesn’t have to be in the form of more meta stories.

      Lead the discussion in the direction you see fit, and I’m sure we’ll follow.

      (Just don’t let THAT go to your head…) ;)

    • Cubs in 09

      I don’t have to agree with everything to enjoy the site. But talking issues and having fun with it is what makes NQ special.

      I’m with you 1000%. I’ve been coming to NQ for several months. I’m very conservative, but I like to read nearly everyone’s comments. I’ve learned so much from those with other points of view. I like the civility and humor I find here 99% of the time.

    • Reality not religion

      “what we’ve built for NQ?”

      May I suggest you go through the archives and see what the site was and always has been. I only mention this because it seems many mistakenly think this site started out as an anti-Obama site, and that’s not the case.

      • WildChild

        you have a rather ironic name for a follower of the one

      • Louie

        but there are other sites that have a “mild” rating system that shows a communities general impression of that comment. It turns green when the approved, or gets dimmed when down-rated. So it’s not cenorship per se

        I disagree, it’s censorship, and it leads to occluded group think, the death of free thought.

        NQ seems a magazine of sorts, with Susan and Larry as the editors, our feedback instant, more a conversation than a contest.

        We, as the reader, or poster, have to be able to judge a post for itself, really, it’s unique value determined by the individual, and not the group.

        The idea of rating a post for any reason is just so childish to me, so Heatherish, as to be pathetic (I’m sorry, I don’t mean to insult, but the concept is so teenish, so Michael Jackson, or American Idol, so “Dungeons and Dragons,” as to be revolting, it’s just not a thing intelligent people do, it somehow reflects a need to socially bully, or a symptom of arrested psychological development. A rating system reflects a need to group psychologically to find security, in numbers, unable to stand independently, it looks to squash the threat of disagreement, and groups are wont to follow a pack psychology, obviously, leading to less than stellar results. Any type of rating system harnesses and censors thought, is ultimately counterproductive, again, leading to bubbled mediocrity, group think. Anal retentive, it owuld seem…)

        If I dont like the posts, I skip, if it gets too kooky, I leave, and at certain points, Susan and Larry will step up, to provide direction, at their discretion.

        And it works.

        Those sites with “rating systems” (most of which reflect anything BUT post content), aren’t even worth reading, and I don’t.

        • ces

          Check out engadget.com, Louie, and their comment system.

          So an intellectual anarchy is fine with you. Invite all the trolls and let the shit stick where it lands?

          Why not call it Larryspace.com then? Because it’s exactly those teen sites that allow anything to be posted.

          And if you had read my comment, and not just reacted to the word CENSORSHIP, you would see that I addressed the “just ignore them” concept. But that’s all it is, because we’re human and even the best of us reply to the trolls at times.

          I’m not advocating the type of purging done at the Cheeto site, where policy differences were grounds for banning. I’m not even talking about banning.

          I’d love to be able to just turn certain people’s comments/thread off….permanently. There’s at least one person who I find writes just to say whatever comes to mind. This person’s views change from one minute to the next. In my view, a troll, because it takes the discussion off in different directions simultaneously. And others feel the same way about this person because they’ve backed up my calling them on it.

          So if trimming the fat is childish, then what would you do with the incivil comments, Louie.

          And I’d made one more observation. The last thing NQ will ever have is any kind of coherent group-think, because we’re coming here from a lot of different backgrounds and interests.

      • ces

        Actually, I was regular visitor BEFORE the primary season. But once the other Dem/Lib sites started their putsches, I found NQ the only place where all voices could be heard. But yes the common thread for the election became the threat of an Obama presidency. The threat of an Obama presidency–to our security.

        So RNR, your assumption is incorrect.

  • msliberal

    “Comment by Cubs in 09 | 2008-11-20 23:54:01

    My point is that ships are not referred to “she” because they use to be controlled by men. That’s just plain wrong. You can’t just make stuff up.”

    A simple google search will back up my comment, or take a course in the his/her story of the American language.

    • Cubs in 09

      A simple google search will back up my comment, or take a course in the his/her story of the American language.

      Honey… I have a BA in German and an MA in historical linguistics.

      …and that’s all I have to say about that. :-P

  • Mr. Natural

    This one’s for anyone with an IRA, a 401-K, a pension, investments, anyone, in short, who upon achieving the state of having more than two plugged nickels to rub together, invested in or had invested on his or her behalf, money on Wall Street:

    That smoking crater forming at the intersection of Hope, Despair, and Wall Street – was your money.

    You’ve got a choice. You can write your Congressman and tell them you support the bailout, good, bad, or indifferent, or you can kiss your money goodbye.

    The Auto Company Implosion will be that big.

    Wall Street’s voting, folks. Time for you to choose sides. We’ve got a president. It’s time we moved forward.

    • rolling_thunder

      I guess the taxpayers are going to have to bale out big corps, wall street and ceo’s or get into the soup line…

      • Louie

        There’s no more money, they’re delusional if they fail to understand how bad it is, pretending they can continue to bail out companies with fiat money issued from a severely compromised Fed.

        I was watching Joe Biden, before the election, speaking of the AIG and Wall Street big bank crisis, and I thought he was going to cry, he looked distraught.

        And I thought “he either gets it, or he’s had a really bad day.”

        It’s bad.

  • Tristan

    I agree with Larry. The right position to have now is “Okay, you said you’d fix everything… Go.” For example, what is Obama going to do about the economy? The market’s down 25% since the bailout was announced. How about the automakers? Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan? Failing schools? Health care? Immigration? The environment? Energy? Tax cuts? The deficit?

    Obama won the election by promising everything to everyone and now all these problems are his now. Let him put some policies on the table and introduce some bills in congress and then see if he chose to pander to the far left and/or his corrupt cronies or whether he smartened up and went centrist.

    • Joanie in Brooklyn

      Actually, I don’t think he said he’d fix everything. To me it sounded like he said he “hoped” to fix everything and if he couldn’t, then he would just “change” the subject.

  • http://watchpaul.blogspot.com Rose

    My advice? Don’t censor.

    When you ‘talk’ on these blogs, you are talking to many, many more people than just those who post comments. You may be ‘talking’ to your neighbor, you may be ‘talking’ to a reporter. You don’t know who is reading.

    Tailor your comments accordingly.

    Don’t get into bitchslapping fests – it turns off the other readers, and doesn’t accomplish anything. Whereas, the ‘troll’ provides you with an opportunity to present your case, to win them over, but more importantly, to convince all the rest of us, all the readers you never hear from, but who read, who learn, and who form their opinions based on their experience here.

    Your mindset, and your motto, should be “COME TO THE LIGHT.”

    Then BE the light, and welcome them to see the reality you see, the truth you know. And all the good reasons why.

    (Hope my comment makes it through :) )

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      (Hope my comment makes it through :) )

      Yes it did! It made it past my tinfoil hat straight to my metaphysical crystal of universal love! :shock:

      Just funning with ya, I got a kick out of the new age-ish LIGHT remark. :mrgreen:

    • AnninCA

      I agree. I enjoyed one nasty exchange this past week, where I went toe-to-toe and responded in kind. Once in awhile, I think it’s good to blow out the pipes.

      But as a standard fare? Nah* I have never understood why some posters relish that type of crud.

      It’s non-engaging to me.

  • rolling_thunder

    January 25th, massive shift will occur as well as a full lunar eclipse. Isn’t that the time that a strike against US was predicted? OR was it the 21st?

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      Let me re-tune my tinfoil hat and check. Be right back. ;)

    • Cubs in 09

      massive shift

      What kind of massive shift? Just wondering…

  • KathyNeocon

    Blech. I’m not welcoming back trolls who come back here to gloat with their supercilious attitudes, looking down their noses at us.

    If Obama the Magnificent would’ve lost these trolls wouldn’t come back here, except maybe to try and crash the board.

    This is a very stealth operation of destruction. Get a foot in the door under the guise of token friendship, and then seek to destroy.

    It’s the Trojan horse approach.

    • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

      You don’t have to welcome them back. I’m not.

    • Wow

      There are medicines that can help with that kind of paranoia.

      • KathyNeocon

        Bless your heart.

  • http://watchpaul.blogspot.com Rose

    I say this because you have an excellent blog here, with good points and good discussions. Don’t act like a lady on a chair screaming because she sees a mouse when someone disagrees, or unfortunately, trolls and baits.

    Be above the chessboard. Laugh at those moves. And play to win.

    • Cubs in 09

      NQ Friends…

      You all realize, of course, that the great discussions here have been depriving me of sleep for the past several months! :mrgreen:

    • KathyNeocon

      Be above the chessboard. Laugh at those moves. And play to win.

      Failure to speak earlier and the idling and concerted, biased efforts of the MSM is what got us Obama the President (a disgrace to this Nation).

  • Cubs in 09

    I wanna know about this “massive shift.” Should I hug the ground? :-P

    • Cubs in 09

      rolling_thunder…

      I’m gonna lie awake all night wondering about the “massive shift.” :mrgreen:

      • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

        My tinfoil hat tells me it could be the pole shift, where the Earth’s magnetic field reverses. (This is actually a real occurrence on Earth periodically, I recall this is stored in magnetite rocks as evidence.)

  • Galt’s Pizza Parlor & Cat Herding Supplies

    This is sort of related to this thread: I felt bad there were no comments over at “Tune in now for Our View Radio * Open Thread Too!” so I posted this there:

    Wow, no comments. I hope you had some listeners. I think the threads surrounding that previously banned race baiting blogger extraordinaire who shall remain nameless to protect children and small animals, co-opted your webcast. :shock:

  • KintheNorthwest

    There are several reasons I cannot accept Obama.
    My primary reason right now is his citizenship issue. With all my heart and soul I want to say that is just a hoax or that many on these sites are just dreaming up rumors on Obama.
    Then I see all the evidence on the fake BC and ask why did Obama feel the need to print a fraudualant one.
    Then there is the issue of the lawsuits, why didnt Obama/DNC just bring forth the real BC–you know live certificate of Birth.
    Then comes the issue of Obama’s parents registering him as Barry Soreto an Indonesian citizen — Did they lie, and why and when did Obama change his name back.

    You see it would be so simple for me to accept this man if he would just clear up some mysteries, along with not having lied so much about his past and his associates/mentors.

  • jbjd

    A handful of operatives colluding to steer the direction of the private club called the Democratic Party, whose chief mission is to select a nominee for President to place on the general election ballots in the states; rigged the primaries and caucuses paid for by public tax revenues and then violated Party rules to install Obama as their selection. Then, entitled by laws enacted in the states to have the name of their nominee placed on the ballots, with no corresponding provision of any federal or state law requiring anyone to check whether he is eligible to be POTUS under the Constitution but only in a handful of states, a legal possibility to question whether he is eligible to get onto the ballot; and enabled by a complicit MSM who, for whatever reason, promoted the Party selection rather than reported on the news, they successfully garnered enough votes to win the election, aided and abetted by a public grown so weary of Republicans they demurred while the club and the press usurped their reason. Now, club loyalists posing as voters in the Electoral College are poised to ratify the club’s initial selection. This is not democracy; this was a coup. And other than the occasional gripe that this process was unfair, where on this blog is the outrage that once fueled attempts to forestall this injustice? Replaced too suddenly by acquiescence, ‘we did the best we could do.’ Not me. I am clinging to my outrage, channeling it into informing the Electoral College voters this man may not even be a natural born citizen, before they take advantage of the opportunity bestowed upon them to sign off on this thuggery.

    • jbjd

      Do you know that the Electoral College voters are, in most states and, for the most part, selected by the Party, and are, according to the descriptions provided for each state, long-time Party loyalists? How much independent analysis of the legitimacy of the man who garnered the most votes in the general election will occur, if any, do you suppose will occur before these Party faithful cast their votes on December 15?

  • AnninCA

    I’d just like to toss in my 2 cents here. Beware of squeaky wheels.

    Some folks who may, in fact, be far more offensive than they realize could be the e-mailers, too, complaining because someone doesn’t agree with them.

    It’s entirely ridiculous to go back and determine who started what. Too much like elementary school.

    But I’d beware of the schoolyard tattletales.

    Other than completely offensive troll posts, nobody has to respond to any post. Anyone who “feels” victimized by alternative perspectives is, frankly, just being immature. Their worldview is being challenged, and they don’t like it.

    That type can derail blogs.

    I thought Taylor Marsh was ALWAYS boring because it required happy group-think. Good gravy, that’s a drag.

  • hootnannie

    I don’t know if my judgment is worth a fig anymore, because I thought there was no way a majority of Americans would elect someone with Bobo’s baggage. Of course, some of the votes were illegal, but that many? And I’m coming to believe that, incredible as it once seemed to me, there were at least tens of thousands who did not even know about his negatives.
    But, if he actually makes it to the WH, our destinies are in many ways linked. We have a monumental econonic crisis, national health care is sorely needed, illegal immigration is out of control, two wars are ongoing, and the cultural left and right are already clashing in the streets. I feared that Bobo would be a tool of the lunatic-fringe left, but that doesn’t appear to be so judging by the barely liberal wonks he’s said to have picked for the Cabinet. He now looks to me like the typical pol, and I hope he will do the things I believe our nation needs.

  • AnninCA

    As for the poster mentioned, I didn’t see the “Go after Larry” stuff, but I will say that I usually enjoyed his jabs.

    Sometimes, it got over the edge.

    But a little bit of jabbing is good for everyone. LOL*

    I really am a rebel, I think. :)