Sorry that I just now saw you remarks – you should write up this rant to send to NQ!! Especially since you have first-hand experience on this topic.

And I would still love to see an expanded version of your caucus fraud experience.

Great comment!! And thanks!

Since I sort of know one of the Execs of one of the major auto companies — I’ve watched he and his wife try to find ways to spend/invest all the millions they are getting from that car company. As part of the perks of his job he got a super humongous vehicle — which he then shipped down to someplace in the Caribbean.

It would seem to me that we are in the process of a major shift — CEOs, CFO etc. are going to have to “live” on less. I think it was Times-Warner who went out and bought themselves a super duper CEO for millions. IMMEDIATELY there was an announcement that hundreds of Times-Warner employers had been pink-slipped. Sort of like Skinner’s Stimulus — Response. Or Cause > effect.

Our employees — the Congress — just don’t seem to understand that there is only so much money in the whole world. We have NOT yet found another planet to loot to pad the pockets of the Congress and their best buddies. (Europe found “gold” when they invaded the New World — looting of the New World really improved the treasuries of the Old World.)

Now this spouse of one of the Exec of one of the automakers is a very nice woman — gives her time and money to many worthy causes. And this is what many of the super wealthy do. However, it gets to the point that there is only so much that can be bought or given away. When did it become the norm to pay company Execs more than GOD? or a king or queen?

If the CEOs need a jet — why not “just” a Lear jet? They go fast, can land at tiny airports etc.?

Meanwhile the put-upon taxpayers wait in line at airports, have to remove their shoes and wait some more at the gates, we than cram ourselves into airplanes where we are inspected as if we are common criminals. Then we have to provide 2 IDs for the privilege of allowing fools to read our mail and open our bank accounts.

Ooops — Rev. Amy — it looks like you’ve inspired my rant. Sorry.

I agree that both the management and unions have been wildly irresponsible, but I fear we will all be punished for their bad judgement just as we are all being affected by the mortgage meltdown.

Their bad judgment should not be cause for others to suffer. As far as the mortgage meltdown, I stayed within my means and have done so all my life. Those who bought housing they themselves knew they couldn’t afford sould suffer the consequences. Those who sold them said housing should be indicted, arrested, tried, convicted, and jailed.

It is time for accountability. If a company goes under, take the assets away from the persons reponsible. The CEOs of Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors should be looking at handcuffs and seizure of their personal assets instead of billions for their willful stupidity. It was their decisions that caused their mess–not ours.

“they just want a handout.”

Last point first:

It’s not a handout. What they want is bridge financing and/or loan guarantees. Read the news. Credit is frozen. GM is sitting on $20 billion in assets which in better times could collateralize debt, but now, they can’t rent a dime on it.

“When times are tough in most homes, people tighten their belts, and make sacrifices, before they ask for help. Sounds to me like these car companies don’t want to sacrifice, “

They’re removing light bulbs from fixtures to save electricity. That’s how hard they’re trying to stay afloat. They’ve fired thousands of salaried employees. More are under the microscope. They’re slashing and burning, abandoning and mothballing programs and development.

“don’t you think it is valuable to have a discussion, without resulting in name calling?”

“Name-calling?” That reminds me of Team Obama’s approach. The “racist” meme. Remember that? Anything to avoid introspection.

“… don’t you think a discussion, done so in a fair and balanced way, is better then calling people who discuss this *american bashers*?”

If I were cynical, I’d almost think that some people enjoy elevating their own self images by disparging others. That’s certainly how Obama marketed himself into the Presidency. The “I’m superior/I’m enlightened because I’m voting for Obama” meme ran deep. In this case, it’s “I’m superior because I don’t drive American engineered and manufactured cars.”

“I don’t think that is what Amy is doing here.”

I don’t know what she’s doing here. Funny, I liked most of her previous posts.

“do you think if a company has mismanaged their finances or set themselves up for financial disaster through retirement packages, they should be bailed out by taxpayers?”

Those pensions are federally guaranteed. When the automakers fail, we’ll be paying the guaranteed portions of those pensions. The health care will also fall on our backs. Over time, that will make that $25 billion look like chump change. And you complain about the automaker’s planning?

“don’t you think it was in the best interest of the car manufacturers to plan ahead for the rising costs of oil and global warming issues?”

Vehicles are engineered and brought to manufacturing on timelines ranging from three to four years. Competition with and learning from the Japanese, as well as increasingly heavy and rewarding reliance on knowledge based design tools and supplier cooperation has reduced these timelines to where they are now, much leaner, tighter, and faster than the five year charts I saw in the late eighties.

GM has devoted massive amounts of capital to developing electic cars, battery technology, fuel cell technology, manufacturing technology, cellulosic ethanold production technology, more than I can talk about, and even more than I know about.

The gas price spike was a step function, abrupt and overwhelming. GM had hybrids deployed at the top and middle of their lineup, but was caught looking No denial of that. But they’d worked their way around that problem. They replanned. They slashed and burned. They reprioritized. They sold iconic assets.

This credit crisis is an entirely different can of worms. So how can they respond when few can obtain financing to buy a car? How can they buy money for financing when investors would rather sink their money in 0% paying TBills than trust anybody, and I mean anybody, with their capital?

“me thinks you must live in Detroit, or are employed by one of these big three. You were very opposed to my post about the bailout as well….”

I didn’t “oppose your post.” I objected to your interpretation of what I am willing to believe you believed to be the facts.

I see this issue from the other side, Italy. I see the good and the bad, the pros and cons. I’ve got a Silverado pickup in my driveway, but I’ve also got a Subaru.

You bet!

snark snark

Libruls. The most disgusting of haters here could not even explain the difference between a “Progressive” and a “Liberal” or what was wrong with either.

Here everyone is blaming the unions. 20 years after Reagan asked the question “are you better off today than 4 years ago”, despite several boom times most American workers are actually worse off in real terms as per hourly wage rates have fallen. Average pay has increased because of increases in the weatlh and earnings of the top 1%, never mind the top 10%. Tax the poorest but not the top 5%. They need the money. Great. Let the Country eat cake.

Why does Ford etc have private health care – beacuse they are providing to their employees what should be provided through taxation. Decent levels of healthcare. Other countries do and that is why Hondas do not cost so much.

it’s not Ford-UAW. It’s UAW-Ford.

People I know who did contract work in the plants know that average Jo/e workers got $70K/year, for non-skilled work.

Unless you’ve seen the full plant, you don’t know how little these people actually have to do…for huge wages, great benefits, cheap leases on their cars, and the ability to skip work 25% of the time without the mgmt being able to do anything about it.

These workers know they have it good at the trough. They are as guilty and liable as the idiots who buy the 12MPG tanks they build.

Get another freakin’ job or get your company to make more responsible cars.

you started the insults, mouth-breather.

A Picasso!

Mr Natural was a curmudgeon, not a stoner.