Future looks bleak for the good old US of A

The future of the U.S. is tied to South America since the other five continents will collapse into one solid commercial entity. The good thing is that South America has always have an ambition to work together and in harmony with the U.S. Today there are forces like Chavez that are creating animosity against the U.S. but the reason Chavez’s rants against the U.S. don’t go far is because people in South America are not interested in parting ways with the U.S. On the contrary, the people of South America love the U.S.A. and want to build close ties with us. Not so for the other five continents who will seek to build a self-containing economy apart from that of the U.S.

Another good thing that South America has is its deep religious feelings for Christian values. That in and of itself makes a strong relationship with South America worthwhile.

I advocate that the U.S begins to disassociate with China and other Asian economic communities and concentrate on developing any and all economic initiatives with our neighbors to the south.

Since we are a major debtor nation, the only things that keeps our “stature” is the dollar as the basis of world currency. Once the dollar is replaced, we will be living as a true poor debtor nation with a huge army that will we will not be able to maintain.

Russia may offer some challenges, but still their economy is based on natural resources such as oil. Look for countries like China and India that invested in their own infrastructure and production capacity to take the lead. Unfortunately, this country’s great minds have forgotten that in order to have a viable economy, one needs to actually make a product

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If Hillary goes to the State Department, will Rudy Giuliani end up finishing her term?

http://patriotroom.com/senator-rudy-giuliani/

Unfortunately, this country’s great minds have forgotten that in order to have a viable economy, one needs to actually make a product

They’re too busy thinking about next week’s botom line to be concerned with actually producing something. And when they do finally get around to making it, it is crappy and breaks upon first use. This country used to understand the need to make a better mousetrap. Now they take the old mousetrap, repackage it so it looks pretty, and say it’s new and improved via some overbearing loudmouth who is on one channel or another 24/7. You only buy it so he might STFU. Then when it breaks, you call some service person who comes over to wreck it some more. And so it goes….

It seems they are just reading what has transpired already. I guess the question is, will it continue or not. Will we have a president adding to the problem by spreading the wealth and continue the incredible spending that he proposed, including study’s and boards for everything with added giveaways that he promised every corner to buy their vote and not invest in this country, or not. Unfortunately, it looks like his agenda will deepen this problem and make it pretty permanent.

We’ve already seen the actions of Russia and China, spo no guessing there.

What is Zbig doing now? His threats right after the election obviously had no impact, Russia came right back and told O-shit! to kneel before them and say sorry, and then MAYBE they’ll be nice to him.

…As the world turns.

Nevertheless, the report concludes: “The US will remain the single most important actor but will be less dominant.”

It seems like we’re already there. Putin, China and Iran are certainly not listening to us. We’ve lost leverage.

Obama “elected” president and america goes down the toilet???

uh what happened to hope and change?

oh dear….

a. hillary
b. mccain

america first!

I am buying food seed for the spring–really! (I don’t live on a farm but have a big yard.)

The economic crisis is hitting very close to home now, and I except it will continue its march towards all of us.

Thanks politicians and CEOs. I hope they feel bad, but that would imply that they have a conscience.

This all sounds very Jimmy Carter to me. Things were very gloom and doom then, and although he is (sort of a) decent man, he was a rotten president during a rotten time.

Maybe if we can just get through it quickly, get a Reagan and then a Clinton, all will be well.

Or maybe we will get 8 of Obama followed by another Bush type and become a big sad mean Canada, only without the charm. Nothing our electorate does surprises me these days. Absolutely nothing.

The most dangerous and devastating thing that could happen to the United States is an assassination of Barack Obama, while George Bush and Dick Cheney are still occupying the White House. This would mean that the greatest danger is the period between today and Jan. 20, 2009, when Barack Obama is to be sworn in as the 44th President of the United States. The opportunity to create the kind of national emergency, from which American democracy would never re-emerge, is too overwhelming for our enemies to pass up.

Who would benefit the most? To determine that we should look at the global financial disintegration which has been underway since July 2007. The Anglo-Dutch liberal system of globalization, free trade, and unfettered speculation is dead. What the British financial oligarchy and their assets in America fears the most, under these current conditions, more than anything else is an American revival of the policies last seen during the Presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Their hatred of FDR almost matches their hatred of Abraham Lincoln. And the British, as the official record even shows, at the minimum, had a heavy hand in the assassination of President Lincoln if not the actual implementation.
From the earliest days of our republic the British have assassinated American republican leaders, beginning with the assassination of former Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton, at the hands of British East India Company traitorous agent Aaron Burr.

The British know that an assassination of President-elect Obama, while George Bush is still in power, would tear the United States apart, and lay the basis for the kind of lockdown of the system, that would mean the end–after more than 200 years–of our Constitutional Republic. The AA community has foolishly participated in generating this scenario with the constant threats of violence during the election. The suspension of civil rights under Bush and Cheney following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York City and the Pentagon, is a taste of the kind of top-down repression that Cheney and his puppet George W. Bush would impose, under the conditions of chaos set off by an assassination of the President-elect.

The British media has been floating the prospect of an assassination ever since election day to put them in an “I told you so” position outside the ring of suspicion.

Let’s not add our own Reichstag Fire to our county’s history. (Reichstag Fire, incident in Germany in 1933 that provided the pretext for a state of emergency, the suspension of constitutional rights, and the suppression of opponents of the Nazi party)

FAILURE MANAGEMENT:

I would like to nominate the Leadership Teams of Bear Stearns and Iceland for THE FAILURE MANAGEMENT OF THE YEAR AWARD!

Why? FOUR REASONS:

1. THEY FAILED EARLY!
2. THEY KEPT A LOW PROFILE
3. THEY GOT THEIR “BAILOUT”
4. THEY AVOIDED THE XMAS RUSH

I eliminated the CEO’s of the “Big Three for failing 4 out of 4.

Pick any “Crisis” and examin the leadership and tactics as that Crisis emerged and the leadesrship and tactics when it was finally brought to an end.

You will find that every Crisis changes, morfs and evolves as it progresses and as it is reacted to.

If the Tactics and leadership are correct the “crisis” will be delt with in a reasonable amount of time.– On year is the max. any leader gets.

When to stick with a given strategy and when to adopt a new one is always a first Year ending question.

First you have to “know the enemy”, and above all, Don’t underestimate it.

I question that we truly know how powerful this “Crisis Is”.

I think we have and continue to underestimate the gravity of the situation we are in.

The Market will not bottom untill it reaches 5200 and the unemployment will reach 30%

Many who lost their jobs a year ago when they still had assets in the Market had options many who are now loosing their jobs this Xmas no longer have.

The IMF will “Fail” by March 2009.
It had “only” $250 billion dollars at the onset.

It has lost (one fifth in the last 14 days) and continues to loose funds to the Crisis through assistance offered and Withdrawal Of Funds by member states who are cash strapped back home.

The ‘defenses devised in good time are out the window thirty seconds into a real all out rootin shootin crisis.

Believe it, That’s what this one is.

At the start of the American Civil War, who would have picked Grant.

Even before the end of WWII the British People chose not to choose Churchill to lead the next Post War Crisis.

It is time to admit that we have met the Enemy and it’s name is:

“TOTAL DEPRESSION!”

It is time to stop thinking you can out run this storm.

It is time to come about and tack into the wind!

What is your Failure Strategy?

What Qualities of a “Failure Manager” are you looking for?

.

I think your confusing us with China, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Do you people just make up your facts?

NEXT TIME SOMETHING BREAKS…YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK ON THE BOTTOM TO SEE WHAT COUNTRY MADE IT.

America’s Arab Enemies Feel Betrayed By Hillary Pick for Sec. State

http://patriotroom.com/americas-arab-enemies-feel-betrayed-by-hillary-pick-for-sec-state/

auuh yes, more of those promises for additional spending elsewhere.

November 23, 2008
Karzai: Obama promises Afghanistan more aid
Posted: 10:18 AM ET
Afghan President Hamid Karzai says Barack Obama has promised Afghanistan more aid.

KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) — President-elect Barack Obama has assured Afghan President Hamid Karzai the U.S. will send more aid and pay more attention to his war-torn country, according to Karzai’s office.

However, Obama aides said the Saturday call did not include specific promises.

Karzai’s office said Obama told him the United States was committed to helping the people of Afghanistan and bringing peace and stability to the country.

The Afghan president again congratulated Obama on his election and told him that he hoped his presidency would lead to prosperity for the American people, his office said.

But two aides in Obama’s transition office downplayed the significance of the call.

Obama told Karzai he “looked forward to working together on Afghan security after January 20,” according to one aide, but the incoming president stressed that “until then there is one president, and it is President Bush.”

Obama takes office on January 20.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/23/karzai-obama-promises-afghanistan-more-aid/

I guess I am ready to revert to my “cold war” years.
In recent days I have read several articles on Putin’s push in Russia, and predictions that he will be returning to the Presidency there.
Although India has nukes, as of yet, I feel their threat is economic…ditto China.
An aggressive, military power in Russia would worry me more than Iran and the Middle East for they are more primitive.

This is what happens to a country when you squander your resources, no longer manufacture goods to sell to others, shut down technological achievements and allow other nations to catch up and pass you for almost 40 years. And after 8 years of Bush does anyone need to be told that dumbing down the leadership is not the way to fix the problem?

Look at the three countries they predict will take the lead; China, India, Russia; does anyone actually believe that any of these 3 are impressed with Barry Soertoro, Barack Obama, or whatever the latest incarnation of mystery man is. Two are non believers in any messiahs and one nation is predominately Hindu so they would be immune to the form of messiah leadership that has taken over our democracy.

I doubt the fake Greek temple setting of his coronation impressed them at all; especially considering their awesome array of military weaponry and manpower they display at their celebrations. And I doubt the man called Obama is going to impress them with his little private army he plans to build at taxpayer expense.

And we know from history that men who worship their own image and brand everything they touch are the first to be defeated.

And after 8 years of Bush does anyone need to be told that dumbing down the leadership is not the way to fix the problem?

The problem is not in the dumbing down of leadership, which is self-evident, but in the dumbing down of the electorate that continues to put worthless boobs in office. Need foreign policy espertise in your president? Then elect the man with the Texas swagger and 1/2-pint hat. Need a president who’s cool. Then elect the slacker with rock star written all over his thin resume.

We have had 20 attempts to assassinate our presidents and only four have succeeded. Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy. If the assassination of Lincoln (civil war) and Kennedy (nuclear confrontation) did not bring about a Constitutional crisis, why would you think our Nation, which was created to survive an assault on any of its three separate branches, would degenerate into crisis? The electoral college would simply replace the candidate with another; which should be McCain considering the closeness of the election.

Pahahahahha!!! @ “they’ve been wrong before”

UM YEAP!!

ROFLOL!

oh man I don’t know if I believe ANY ONE 100 percent about ANY THING ANY MORE!!

No moe
No moe
No body’s telling the WHOLE Truth
No moe!

I wish I had a yard for planting. I surely would!
Veggies especially are getting way way too expensive!
Would rather grow my OWN! If I could.

U.S. economic power may be best served by a “commonwealth of American ” strategy. This would involve a vote in proposed member states adopting U.S. laws and swearing allegiance to The U.S. In return. they go on a dollar based economy. dissolve and integrate their militaries into the U.S. and also eliminate any trade barriers. This may be absolutely nesessary for U…S. regional security as China is making MAJOR inroads into Latin America buying up whole mining companies and vast tracts of virgin forests in order to guarantee access without negotiations. Cuba. if he people were actually offered an opprotunity to vote on U.S. Commonwealth status would handily approve! Cuba, Panama ,Ecuador are already on a U.S. dollar economy and many others are on a “defacto” dollar economy. This would actually stem the flow of Illegal immigration as these new “commonwealth” states would thrive and our domestic economy would alsoalso improve with unfettered exports southward. Obama Iis the perfect president to omplement this pan as he is not seen as “Imperialist” but as a potential liberator of these despotic rulers that run the show down there now…. Trying to think outside of the box…. What do you think?

Hmmm…Maybe you could check into community garden if zoning permits?

Comment by an observer | 2008-11-23 11:06:16
…The British media has been floating the prospect of an assassination ever since election day to put them in an “I told you so” position outside the ring of suspicion…

And some unrecognized lights in the sky might really be alien spacecraft out to steal our women!

If nothing else, please God let Obama amend, undo and reverse the trend initiated under the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act!

Don’t totally blame the voters; blame the two political parties that supported these candidates because, without their support no one would have heard of Barack Obama and George W. would just be President Bush’s older son. And they went to extreme lengths to to destroy Senator Clinton’s and Senator McCain’s credibility with voters while going to the same extremes to keep Soertoro/Obama’s background a secret from the voters.

What a horrible thing to be “floating” about Fraudbama. God forbid anything happens to him, which it won’t. He has more Secret Service detail than any CIC in history. I hear like four times as much. And the guy had to deliver his acceptance speech behind 2 inches of bulletproof glass. The last thing anyone wants is for him to be assassinated. What a horrible thing to happen to America and for the love of God, the guy would be a martyr and have done nothing. What ugly talk. I can’t stand the guy but in no way should ANYONE be talking like that. Shame on the Brits, if that is true. WTF?

Hmmmm…check this out and see how well you score…Although I didn’t score as well as I hoped I did way better than the average score of electors ( some of the economic questions threw me…I got a 78%…not bad for an artist…chuckle )
won’t let me post the link *sigh*
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx

nah not this community – some of these fools would shoot a rabbit (even in a community garden) before they’d scare it off some other way and I don’t want to be the one diggin in the dirt when the shots are fired!

lol

we have hundreds of rabbits, squirrels & chipmunks right outside my back door (practically) woods all around but it’s community woods so they are maintained and it’s been turned into a huge jogging,walking trail. Anyway, we see critters all the time and when peoples dogs get off the leash, you will sometimes find a dead one but most are food for the eagles and other birds of prey around these parts – a garden wouldn’t last 5 minutes

The inner circle is the circle to watch!

When I was stationed in S. Korea in the late 70′s I had only been there a couple weeks when the President was shot.

For a short time we were on alert and thought it was perhaps from the NORTH. Turned out he was shot by one of his disgruntled BODY GUARDS!!!

I suggest to Barry to treat his guards REALLY REALLY well!!

just a suggestion

How very Roman…

OMG Dawnell…Now that you mentioned it LOL…

What is your Failure Strategy?

Mad Max or Field and Stream, I think.

I don’t totally blame the voters but when presented with two choices this election cycle, they went American Idol on us.

If you have any porch or window sun, you can grow tomatoes and lettuce easily and with little space in pots. Then you can make small protective shields for the pots from hardware cloth, but in a big garden it’s hard to keep out everything.

TeakWoodKite:

Mad Max or Field and Stream??

Hmmmmm?

Not bad!

Only one small tweak–

Mad Max AND Field and Stream!

Yeh! That might get you through.

I like your wit!

I got 31 correct. That was a challenging test. The two I missed I didn’t have a clue about. I need to pull out my economics 101 book from the closet, apparently.

I’ve done the same thing. I will be buying more seed packets in the spring when they’re cheap. I’m also buying an RV. Also, going to buy one of those mini greenhouses for quick starter plants that you can grow just about anywhere like potatoes and onions, basically any herb or single root plant.

Tomatoes, green beans, peas don’t grow real well indoors, but there are a lot that will with minimum sunlight they can survive on. I’m stocking up on canning products and can goods. Including canned meats. Things that are good to have around in case of any unforeseen tragedy. First aid kits, blankets, water purification, candles, etc. Material, needles and thread in case a need arises for emergency clothing. I want a one year supply back up.

The other day there was a comet that hit the earth in Canada. I remember my mother in law saying right before World War 2 they saw one and her mother told her that was the signal there was going to be a great war. They thought she was nuts, but less than two years later there was. Old wives tale maybe…

Guess they were smoking the Hopium too. Hahahaha.

OMG. Ferd I have been battling with my 1,632nd coffee maker this morning. I have probably spent 10′s of thousands of dollars on new ones that barely last a year. I’m at my wits end. The only ones worth it are the press pots but at 5AM I just want to flip a switch and not deal with boiling water, coffee grounds everywhere and way too small portion sizes. My latest maker was an over priced American one whose design was so stupid I knew it would fail, but it was made here in the states so I decided to give it a try. I was right, the design was insipid and caused the heating element to fail. I’m now looking at a Swiss made one that costs as much as a used car…but the reviews are great and when you call for customer service you get a person that speaks perfect English with a nice Swiss accent. (SIGH) Remember the old Mr. Coffees that first came out that were bullet proof.

Remember the old Mr. Coffees that first came out that were bullet proof.

Yep. You could throw them, beat on them, but they kept going.

I try to buy made in America whenever I can, knowing that some of it is pretty shoddy.

Strawberrybitch, you too?

I have a collecion of appliances that are in kahoots!

Hmmmm….Planet X ?

I personally will miss the Roman Empire.

We as Americans were privileged to have taken up the mantle of liberty and freedom and democratization of the world from the Britsh the past century.They in turn took up the mantle form others on the European continent going back to Rome itself.
Whomever was Rome enjoyed unlimited success and freedom.
Americans today are a disillusioned people who are ashamed to be the world leader. As a result we are being replaced by those that want to lead. For them security and unlimited prosperity..For US…Neither!

Yep rip out your lawn and grow. I love the conveneince of my garden. I go out and pick and have a nice meal. I grow several kinds of tomatoes, peppers, artichoke, zucchini,Tai & Italian basil, oregano, sage, lavender, peaches, queen anne cherries, red plum, table grapes, blueberries and more. remember to sweeten your soil with lime mixed into the soil.

And now for a little laugh. Watch the whole thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOvqF4ZPDNM

Teak, don’t get me started on washing machines. Maytag needs to go away.

Cry me a river. Let me clue you in on just a few items made here that are pretty much junk from get-go:

1. Automobiles (gee, who would have thought, what with them going to DC with their hats in their corpulent greedy little paws).
2. Operating systems for computers (let’s all be beta testers for no pay so we can make Mr Moneybags even richer by helping him work out the 4-bazillion bugs in his overpriced behemoth of an OS, which uses so much RAM you need a second computer to do any real work and it’s a second-hand one with an earlier operating system that has all the bugs worked out)
3. Pressboard furniture (this crap is so bad, you’re afraid to move it from the store to your home, so you hire someone to do it so when it is ruined you can blame them) That’s why I buy only hardwood antiques.
4. See Strawberrybitch’s post below.

I can give you more, like tools that break upon first use. Nails that wouldn’t pierce refrigerated butter; screws that strip before you get them out of the box; boards that only come in one variety-bent to hell. The list goes on and on.

See my other post, above.

An Obama assassination will happen if the shadow government decides they want it to happen. OK, sounds real conspiracy, but look, if there is an Illuminati running things, they can shoot down Obama without a second’s thought. If you recall, a lot of people believe the CIA shot Kennedy.

That idea sounds kind of like….NAFTA. How well did that work for the average American?

Good!I have had a change of heart & mind. Hillary should take the SOS position because she will avert world war three. I can see her bringing back confidence for USA and put us on track again. She needs to be free to call the shots. I can see her in my minds eye with a long black coat waving as she repairs relations one by one. If she has to sacrifice her senate seat to save USA then so be it. Right now, the world sees BHO as weak and the US market has no confidence in BHO. We are in a free fall. I say to Hillary, YESSSS-whatever it takes. I was against it before I was for it. And while she is at it she can call Gov. Palin and get some energy tips from her. Katie Couric is solely responsible for presenting Palin as stupid. Our loss. We need the brightest and best minds. People of great faith are the best leaders.

The National Intelligence Council (NIC) predicts China, India and Russia will increasingly challenge US influence.

Not with Hillary as SOS. She said she would obliterate Iran if they made any funny moves. Hillary doesn’t say it unless she means it.

And this shouldn’t be about anything like Hill upstaging BHO or anything about them. It’s about Hillary stepping in to use her negotiating skills and other cognitive assets to help USA. Go Hill! I hope we get good news about Hill being SOS.

I did worse than both of you! I got everyone of the economic questions wrong, wrong, wrong. Plus, I can’t believe I forgot it was the Gettysburg Address I had to memorize that thing in Jr. High. Anyway I got 6 wrong. I am not smarter than a 5th grader.

I think we should try mending a few fences first. Our reputation over the long haul has not been good in South America. We could start by recognizing Cuba. We will never win them over with sticks but might do it with a few strategically placed carrots.

I got 84.85%, missed 5 questions. I think the Puritan question was a trick question in that the answer I gave was also correct technically.

You’re smarter than any of those who voted for That One. The economic questions were difficult.

I agree on that one. I got that one right but wasn’t sure any of the answers to it were actually the best response.

I will NEVER buy another Maytag product again as long as I live. For my birthday, my husband brought me a dishwasher, washer, dryer, stove and refrigerator last year. We went with all Maytag. We’ve already had to replace the dishwasher after having them out three times! It never worked right. He brought me a cheap, a little over 100 dollar one that’s standing up to three male grandchildren that like to stand on the lid to get to the sink. The refrigerator, the fan went out on and we couldn’t get a replacement. They want almost as much for the replacement as the refrigerator. (It’s not covered under warranty, so they had to know there was problems with it.) The dryer we had to find parts for on Ebay. The stove the electric thing we have to use matches for because it won’t click, click, click anymore. The only thing that’s lasted is the washer and we’ve already had to replace the motor on it! So now I’m having to get all those new appliances again just a year later. I’m going all generic. I don’t want to have to spend over 3,000 a year replacing major appliances.

People can make all the predictions they want, but no one knows what’s in store. We’ve come back from much worse situations than this. It’s all about good old American ingenuity. The people of this country is what makes it great, if the politicians don’t water us down with people who have intention of becoming Americans or want to turn the country over to their country of origin.

She’s already taken it.

RFK, Jr. will finish her term unless he’s Secretary of the Interior. Whatever, a Democrat will finish it because Gov Paterson is Dem.

I had two Mr. Coffees that wouldn’t brew right out of the box. We have Cuisinart now. It’s GREAT!

Excellent point. These respective parties pushed they candidates THEY wanted.

What anyone else wanted or what was good for the country was irrelevant.

Isn’t Maytag owned by the Crown Family…wait didn’t they give tons of cash to Barky? Yup, Maytag sucks wind. We had the top of the line Maytag front loader for less then 3 months before it went patooy. And it cost $75 bucks just to have some guy come out and tell me it was a design flaw and there’s nothing he could do about it. We were part of that class action law suit against them…all we got was a sample packet of Joy dishwashing liquid to fix the problem. We wound up going with a commercial German product. So far so good. Gone are the days that you could hand down your old appliances to your kids when they leave for college. My first washing machine was a Maytag my mom had for 20 years. We had it for another 5 before we wore it out. We couldn’t get parts for it anymore. Heartbreaking isn’t it?

We have an extra coffee-maker stashed in anticipation of the demise of our current one, which should be any second now. We’ll then replace the stashed one so as to have a replacement handy. I’m almost tempted to get a manual drip coffee-maker like my Father had, which lasted for 40 years. The trouble is that they’re probably made in China like That One’s Coin Set and would contain dangerous levels of lead. Oh, well.

It’s all about good old American ingenuity.

Agreed. We just have to figure a way to work around That One using our ingenuity.

Obama won’t undo anything that has to do with a short penis.

(Sorry I couldn’t resist.)

Don’t forget the role of the US media in this election.

The US media was pushing a product — and they got tons of money for pushing that product.

0-zero is an illusion.

Follow the money — who really funded his campaign and WHY?

I agree with you. All of this junk can just go away. It’s time to get back to sustainable living. Digging our hands in the dirt and riding a bike. I can’t wait to see how this all plays out. It’s time to simplify our lives.

Surprise, surprise. I voted for That One, and I got 31 correct. Same as you.

Maybe there are reasons other than “people voted for him because they’re dumb”, ya think?

because they’re stupid?

I’m amazed reading through this thread to see how many people attribute the sad situation this country finds itself in now to the election of a man who has yet to take office. What, did y’all sleep through the past 8 years?

If you want to know why our power in the world is declining, the answers are right there in front of your nose. 30+ years of bad economic policy and deficit spending, mostly so rich people could have lower taxes. Unnecessary wars costing trillions of dollars which reveal us to be paper tigers. Election (or selection) of public officials whose allegiance is to the oil industry, rather than American energy independence. An aside here – how many of you know that Carter installed solar panels on the roof of the White House – which Reagan promptly had removed after moving in? Because, you know, smart energy policy and conservation, those are PUSSY issues. REAL men burn OIL. And a bit more peripherally related to Reagan – the right is fond of claiming he brought down the Soviets – even though he was out of office for 3 years by the time the USSR broke up. That’s a nice fairy tale, but as with all fairy tales, it’s not true. Afghanistan and the massive military spending the Soviets did there for 10 years had more to do with their collapse than any single US policy or president did. Ring any bells? We’ve poured billions into Iraq for 5 years to no good purpose. Oh sure, Saddam is gone…but so is our world hegemony. Think it was worth what we paid to get rid of that one guy? At the same time we’ve been pouring money down the toilet there, we’ve been pouring money down the toilet for increasingly expensive foreign oil, we’ve been hemorraging money on foreign imports thanks to policies that reward offshoring, we’ve done nothing substantive to improve education and prepare our kids for taking the lead in new technologies, we’ve been bleeding our citizenry dry for health insurance…it’s all been bread and circuses for the past 8 years or more. Hey, pay no attention to the fact that your paycheck isn’t getting any bigger while your bills are going steadily up – American Idol is on tonight and they’re finally going to cut Sanjaya!!!

You want to know why our world position has been so eroded? Two things: poor leadership and an apathetic citizenry. Let’s hope that we don’t fall to the level of a Brazil or Phillipines, that our fall from grace is arrested at about the level of a Spain or Italy. Because, you know, it could get much much worse. Particularly if we proceed with these pig-headed ideas that the highest good is served by allowing those who make all the money to keep it all and pay little or no taxes.

your boy is going to go on the speaking circuit after his term and clean up.

Really? And how well did you do?

Several months ago we all talked about the coming Obama Crash.
75% of business owners don’t trust Obama.
Obama is BAD for business…
Clean coal adding 50% to electrical bills. The threat of a carbon tax.Increased regulations.Capital gains taxes plus business taxes..
This is about philosophy of business..

Maybe Obama may scrap his plans to raise taxes in a recession causing a depression but the word got out and it stuck with those that employ people.
We all know that this crash had much to do with the sub prime and democrats attempts to house everyone despite their credit worth.
The stock market has been dropping ever since it became clear that Obama was going to be president.The fact that there is so many unknowns about his direction has spooked the market.

well I still have my house, my job, just planted a bunch of spring flower bulbs. I have to say I’m still doing pretty good.

Your talking point about “democrats” causing the housing crash is just so much crap. So, Fannie and Freddie caused it all? Think again. They only bought subprime mortgages for 2 years, 2005-06, and then only those in the A- category, and then only because they had a mandate to maintain a certain percentage of mortgages sold to low/moderate income homeowners in their portfolio and that’s what the mortgage lenders were writing. Altogether, Fannie and Freddie were responsible for securitizing a whopping 3% of subprime financing in 2005 and 15% of it in 2006. So much for that talking point, eh? But let’s not let this go so quickly – exactly who controlled both the presidency and the Congress in the 2 years when Fannie and Freddie were responsible for securitizing (not making loans – Fannie and Freddie don’t make loans, or didn’t you know that?) a minimal amount of the subprime lending? Hint: it wasn’t the Democrats, who were so far in the minority that they couldn’t have blocked the Republicans had they made any attempt whatsoever to step in and pass restrictions on Fannie and Freddie from buying any subprime mortgages. Which, of course, the Republicans did not do. Last of all, let’s look at the fact that out of all lenders/buyers of mortgages, Fannie and Freddie hold by far the lowest percentage of mortgages in foreclosure – something on the order of 3%, IIRC. Gee, sounds like your GOP talking points are just so much BS, doesn’t it? But don’t take my word for it, go read for yourself.

Yes, I’m sure the impending election of Barack Obama, and not stuff like Wall Street and entire countries like Iceland going bust is what caused the market to fall.

Christ, do you even listen to how stupid the things you say make you sound?

Why don’t you get off your blame game!

Who cares how it happened..I just care about my folks keeping their jobs.

Because they were gullible as are you. You apparently fell off the last produce truck leaving town and were left behind.

thus his nick name: melon head

I think I need to revise my first response.

The trick here is that a lot of people were fooled by the Shyster-in-Chief elect. That is not the fault of anyone but those who got the wool pulled over their eyes. I didn’t believe a word coming out of the MSM or the parties during this election cycle or any of those preceding it since I started voting in 1976.

The accountability ultimately rests with the voters. Those who voted for him need to own him now. The buck ultimately stops with them.

I’ll get off of MY “blame game” as soon as you stop spreading misinformation blaming people who weren’t responsbile for this mess!!! “Who cares how it happened?” We ALL should, to keep it from happening again!

Oh, and BTW – my bad: Fannie and Freddie’s bad mortgages are 1.5%, compared to 5% nationally. If you’d like to read more about the minimal role of Fannie and Freddie in this cluster, read this.

As always, you finish with a great zinger. LMAO.

detractor..
In every model there is a catalyst that changes events.
We have had some huge bubbles just waiting to burst. Our economy for too long as only cared about the next quarter and what the stock price is doing.
The consumer economy is done..Put a fork in it!

Mankind at large is responsible for this crisis.
I’m actually bullish..of course I have been planning for 20 years the events we are witnessing.

you’re definitely right about that one you tragic little melon head

That was interesting, and very challenging. I got 26 out of 33. Nothing spectacular but in the top 11% of test takers.

I did get the separation of church and state question right. The number of people that miss that is frightening. I get so sick of liberals erroneously crowing that the “separation of church and state” is in the Constitution. Duh.

I disagree that the consumer economy is over. This recession like the recession of 2000 is a capita recession. Though this one is much worse. Then as now it will be consumer spending that keeps America afloat.

capital

WildChild..I would like to believe you, but the evidence tells me otherwise.
We are still in the early innings of this collapse.
The collective world has lost upwards of half it’s value on paper. This will directly impact retail.
Even oil at $20 will not help this time.

The business to get into if anybody is interested…Salvage…Everything will start being reused again instead of just discarding.

Absolutely. That’s why we need tax cuts ASAP to increase consumer spending.

The accountability ultimately rests with the voters. Those who voted for him need to own him now. The buck ultimately stops with them.

Agreed. And I will hesitate to remind them of that during the next four years.

oops–that’s “won’t hesitate”–LOL!

Priceless. Happy to make your day.

Kathy,
The Obamabots don’t realize that psychology has much to do with how the market and economy.
Remember Pelosi..when they were about ready to sign the deal she blamed the Republicans and said that we were in a Great depression..

What has the markets done since then
We call that Self Fulfilling Prophesy.

Obama should come out and say..
I’m Pro Business and I get it.
slash capital gains
Business investment tax credits

back off on all these environmental initiatives.They are costly and will be the death nail.
We need to get dirty and make stuff and employ people.Lighten up on the regulations.

Just to expand my plant costs 100k for an environmental impact statement

Obama should come out and say..
I’m Pro Business and I get it.
slash capital gains
Business investment tax credits

Absofrigginlutely Seattle!! If he does that I’ll be the first one to clap my hands for the shyster.

you hit the nail on the head. The value was nothing more then paper. It’s one on the down sides of having a stock market. After the IPO the company ceases to receive income from it’s stock. The stock shifts over to the market which is little more then AC or Vegas. People are betting on whether or not it will go up or down, and which way the price goes can have little to do with the health of the company and more to do with the hype from the street. And then there is the scourge of dividends. Cutting taxes on them was a monster mistake. The resulting pressure to pay out more and more dividends took money out of the companies that could have been used to retool, innovate and expand. We perceived that it was all cool when everything was going well but unregulated. we reached it’s inevitable collapse. I would do the opposite of what a number of you are suggesting. Tax the shit out of dividends but give companies a tax break for reinvesting in their infrastructures, R&D, paying wages etc. I think it’s time to get the parasites off the back of American business for awhile, but to do that we have to deemphasize the necessity of the stock market in American life.

Hold your breath – but I happen to agree with both of you, though maybe for different reasons than the ones you have in mind.

We have been told for the past 30 years about how we’re going to be a “service economy”, which even as the high school kid I was back in 1980 made me wonder, “ok…but…if you don’t actually make anything tangible, doesn’t all your money flow out?” Well, yes, yes it does.

Part 2 of the equation, our old friend Adam Smith told us hundreds of years ago that the inevitable tendency in capitalist systems is for money to aggregate into very few hands, if there are no mechanisms in place to slow the process down, and that capitalist economies cannot continue to function when wealth becomes too concentrated into too few hands. And what have we been doing for the past 30 years? Encouraging wealth concentration via holding down wages and lowering taxes on the wealthy. In 1998, the wealthiest 10% of Americans owned 70% of all the wealth; the poorest 40% owned 2/10ths of 1%. And since then, tax and wage policy has only increased that divide.

I liken it to a poker game where one guy has all the chips. He can keep the game going longer by loaning chips to the other players, but once they lose those too, it’s game over.

The subprime lending boom was the part of the game where the guy with all the chips was loaning them to all the other players. Now, the game is over. And it’s not like this is a big surprise to anyone in the know, or anyone who was paying attention. For 5 or 6 years we heard daily on the news that “housing is the sector driving the economy!!! While everything else is weak, housing is keeping us afloat!” That should have raised alarm bells for everyone, because…how is it possible that people so maxed out in debt that they can’t do retail spending were getting loans on houses (often with grossly inflated values)? If you can’t afford to buy anymore cheap plastic Chinese crap at Wal-Mart, how can you afford a $300,000 house? Answer: you can’t. And the guys making the loans knew that – they just figured that when the dupes who borrowed the money went into foreclosure, the house would still be there and could be sold to another dupe. Which would have been a good plan had 20 or 30% of the borrowers not been dupes.

Part 3 of the equation is: how is it that there was so much money floating around that anyone could borrow $300,000 regardless of their creditworthiness? Well, the guys with all the money (chips) were having problems finding places to invest all the excess money they had where it could earn a return – manufacturing was a no-go, because we don’t make anything, and people in debt to their eyeballs can’t buy it even if we did. Retail was a no-go because again, everyone was too far in debt to buy. So, housing! Because it supposedly is “safe” because it’s tangible, and the price “always goes up”…unless of course, you’re selling a third of the houses to people who will default because they can’t afford them. When ALL the guys who couldn’t find places to put their excess money threw it into the mortgage market, the law of supply and demand “demanded” more borrowers – and the lending standards became non-existent.

And here we are. There’s only a few ways to really fix it, because we can’t have an economy if half of the people in it have no money. We can raise wages, or we can raise taxes on the wealthiest of us, or we can do a combination of both. But one way or another, if we don’t have more people with some discretionary spending ability, it will never be good again. A lot of people, Republicans in particular, will characterize this as “socialism”, but if they want to so label it, they should shoulder the burden of explaining to us how you can make a capitalist consumer economy work when only a few people have any money. Adam Smith was never able to figure that one out himself, and it’s been the monumental folly of the modern conservatives to pretend that you could just keep concentrating wealth into fewer and fewer hands forever with no ill consequences. So if anyone can explain how to make this utopia where you can have all the money you can grab and things will just go ticking along while everyone else has none, I want to hear it.

you don’t really think that I read all the crap you write, do you melon head? Brevity is a concept you should seriously consider allowing into your life LOL.

http://www.plainsradio.com/

Come join.Last Friday night we had over 25 million listeners.From a man who started out with zero.

Thank you. Every sentence of that meandering thoughtpiece kills four or five brain cells.

A scalpel won’t work for him, either. What he needs is a chainsaw to pare that thicket down a tad.

It’s like a John Kerry speech on steroids

Well, this explains why so many of you are so ill-informed about what’s actually going on in the world. Stick with MTV – that’s sure to help you with your grasp of the economy.

I’d offer up some precision guided munitions but we have to wait for strawberry to get her pilots license before we can delver them.

there you go. KISS. keep it simple stupid. Now you need to take that to heart in all your posts.

Oh detractor, I have several problems with your post. Wow, for starters, if everyone was wealthy; Who would do the peon work? And of course the more money everyone made the more stuff would cost and the less you could buy so you would be right back where you started.

I don’t care that 10% of the people have the most money. They take the risks, they also already pay the most taxes.

Your philosophy about where the money came from for the housing loans was to simple. Much of the money was from foreign investors made rich from oil and of course the emerging markets, such as India and China.

By the way our capitalist consumer economy has out lasted any socialist economy.

Stick with MTV – that’s sure to help you with your grasp of the economy.

You’re right, since your posts are to intelligent conversation as MTV is to music, perhaps I should watch it to see where your banal arguments were given substance.

You’re a flop at satire, Goob.

I’m sorry that the causes of our current economic problems can’t be boiled down into a 20-second sound bite. The short attention spans that allowed so many people to buy into so many stupid ideas are a big part of the reason why the economy is where it is now. I wouldn’t count on more of the same to fix it.

How would you know? You don’t have the attention span required to read and understand anything requiring more than a few seconds of your time. Which means anything deeper than an Ipod commercial just passes right over your head.

That’s the issue though, this isn’t about making everyone “wealthy”, it’s about paying people enough that they can actually participate in the economy. It isn’t “socialism” to pay a living wage, or to raise taxes – it actually ensures the health of the consumer economy. The problem isn’t that 10% of the people are rich, it’s that they are so rich that there isn’t enough money circulating around among everyone else to keep the economy moving. If you don’t believe this, look up the stats on wealth distribution on the eve of the great depression.

it doesn’t have to be a twenty second sound bite, but a good rule of thumb is that when you are done typing and after you hit the add comment botton and your post appears, I should be able to see the end of the post that precedes your’s and the begining of the post that follows. Keep your thoughts concise and you can meet that objective. Keep rambling on like you do and we’ll read your first paragraph (maybe) and move on.

http://www.plainsradio.com/

Come join.Last Friday night we had over 25 million listeners.From a man who started out with zero.

Here’s the problem detractor, if you go to school and work hard you can get a job that pays a living wage already.
If you are young and need some speeding money, you can go to work for McDonald’s and if you don’t go to school and don’t want to work hard then you get a job that pays peanuts. That’s the way it is and that’s the way it should remain.

How would you know? You don’t have the attention span required to read and understand anything requiring more than a few seconds of your time. Which means anything deeper than an Ipod commercial just passes right over your head.

Sure, Mac. I’ve got an attention span long enough to know you’re a egocentric posturing troll lacking any sort of self-discipline. Wildchild is correct, brevity is better that long-winded lecturing from a gasbag like you. Dry up already.

And when the economy crashes because too few people are sitting on all the money, you can go stand in a breadline, because you won’t have a job since no one can buy a burger at McDonald’s. Ok, I get it – you don’t want to understand – it’s just too complicated.

Detractor is a paid bot, which isn’t so much work as it is intentional infliction of pain and suffering on those of us who have to scroll mightily to get past his sophomoric lectures.

Don’t bother. I know there are a few people here who are not shallow as you are. So don’t bother reading anything I write, and don’t bother responding to it since you really can’t because you haven’t the attention span to absorb anything.

Whereas you are just willfully ignorant.

Ferd,
Detractor is a wind bag know it all. That’s for sure.
Even worse detractor lives in hindsight.
Finding those to blame and then going on
ad nauseum about how things could have been different.
Who cares…Blame to go around!!

I want to know what you are going to do for me today…

Yes, personal attacks are much easier than thinking or better yet, proposing alternate arguments. As for “blame”, don’t misplace it if you don’t want to be corrected on it.

Why do you come here detractor-the-paid-troll? What is it about the Obots that make them go to places they aren’t really wanted? You know no one takes your insulting babble seriously, right? ROFLMAO. Tell Fraudbama you need a raise for taking all of our abuse.

Yawn!!!

You must be down to negative numbers by now, then, since you started with only 2…

You must be down in the negative numbers by now, then, since you started with only two….

Ok, I get it – you don’t want to understand – it’s just too complicated.

Are you fucking kidding me? You’re an asshole. How old are you?

I have been doing my own investing for years, I certainly understand how the economy works. I own my home free and clear and even though my portfolio is down almost 50%, I still have enough to live the rest of my life comfortably.

So you won’t be seeing me in any bread line. By the way I’m 53 and retired; How about you asshole?

Weren’t you going to stack up your superior IQ, education, etc against mine? And yet you can’t wade through a simple economics post?

Big surprise there.

Yes, personal attacks are much easier than thinking or better yet, proposing alternate arguments. As for “blame”, don’t misplace it if you don’t want to be corrected on it.

You’re a hypocrite!!!

If you understand so well how it works, you wouldn’t have such a flippant attitude about how easy it is to just go find a job when they’re all drying up. So you play the market? That’s not a degree in economics. And from what you’ve said so far, your understanding of it would fit on the head of a pin.

You really don’t want me to start with you detractor. Really. I didn’t read your BS “economics post.” I just scrolled down to your usual insults to the posters here who I happen to like very much. What a vile personality you have. Pathetic. And you say you are a woman? Wow…just…wow.

STFU TROLL.

When someone is obviously trolling for flames and attention, deny them both. I don’t have the energy for people who keep telling me how smart they are, whine about personal insults then hypocritically throw them right back.

Your opinion means nothing to me because you are a nothing. I don’t PLAY the market asshole, I invest. And from what you said so far, I doubt if you have a pot to piss in!!

Of course you didn’t read it. You wouldn’t have been able to understand it. And that’s not what you do – understand, that is. Your game is to lash out and insult people who talk about things your tiny brain can’t grasp. Like the way you came in here – first words out of your mouth insults. Just like usual.

SM. The troll is lucky it’s just online ad hominum attacks.

Defcon, you are absolutly correct. detractor is just looking for an argument.

I am? I guess I’m a hypocrite like Bugs Bunny is. When someone behaves like a jerk, I respond in kind. At least I haven’t called you an “asshole” – that’s your game, isn’t it? So, the “hypocrite” who responds to an insult with an insult gets called a “hypocrite” by someone who responds to a simple comment with “asshole”? That’s a really neat sliding scale for acceptable behavior you’ve got there.

LMFAO…Troll…Of course I don’t read your worthless vomit. But when I see you insulting my friends here, of course I jump in. You need to get laid you freak. Get a tune-up you monster and then come back. Maybe you will chill.

Of course you do. Because you’re such a pathetic little thing that it’s the only way you know how to entertain yourself. Scamper along now.

Dirtbag, don’t tell ME what to do. You do realize you make a fool of yourself and it’s really bizarre that you WANT people to despise and ridicule you. How’s that self esteem going? Good luck with that loser. Like I said, go pay someone for a tune-up and come back a little more relaxed.

Sorry, I’d like to see your point of view but I can’t get my head that far up my ass!

And yes you are an asshole! I tried to have a have a debate with you and you insulted me first!

Detractor..You are sounding as arrogant as
Joe( smartest man in the room) Biden

I’m sure you’re going to tell us your IQ any minute now.

And people wonder why we think the Obots are deranged…

B
Studies have shown that the Obama supporters believe that they have superior knowledge and sure like to tell us..Too bad for them that they only scored 2% on what obama might actually do as president.

I guess nobody told the zoids that Obama is actually a Republican that won’t raise taxes and will be a hawk on foreign policy.

Ha Ha!!!

I get that Mossy, but WTF is up with them coming here? Why don’t they stay at the Daily Kook or something?

Really, someone comes here and makes a post on a topic that doesn’t even offend your main objective (that Obama is an anti-Christ) and the lot of you are so wrapped up in hating on anyone who doesn’t agree with you on that one thing that it’s game on, attack attack attack! That’s what makes you jerks – you start with “you don’t agree with us on X and therefore, you’re an ASSHOLE and you SUCK and NOTHING you think or say could ever be right!” Sweet christ, are all of you 12? And here you are, calling anyone else a fool? How laughably pitiful.

I guess when you are on the dainty kooks you are just one sheep among millions of other sheep
Coming here makes them stick out and feel important because they have been able for the first time a discussion on the issues.

Y-A-W-N

Psycho…Get some help. Really. If you don’t want to read anti-Fraudbama posts get your azz off this site and get thee to the Daily Kook. Don’t flatter yourself sweetie; I don’t hate you, you’re not worth it. It’s just annoying to have a great group of people here, and then someone comes along with a fat, nasty mouth insulting people who are just sharing and communicating.

Well if you follow the great Mossy logic, then we should move on and ignore the troll. They do get fatter when we FEED them

Maybe you understand how the economy normally works. Perhaps you can enlighten me (and everyone else) as to how it works when a few people have ALL the money and most of the people have none. Think jobs will just be growing on trees then? You’re too young to have lived through the Depression with its 25% unemployment, so you just assume that it can’t happen again? Don’t look now, but it’s perilously close to coming around again. And not because people are too “lazy” to work or get an education – but because the wealth distribution is too out of whack to keep money flowing through the economy.

But yeah, I’m an “asshole” for understanding history and economics and saying things you either can’t understand or would rather not hear.

If you don’t like insults, you shouldn’t be so quick to throw them. I’ve told you already if you thought you could restrain yourself from that, you’d not get any from me. And if you have it in you (not that you do) to take a fair and unbiased look at anything, I didn’t insult anyone here until they started insulting me. For no reason other than the fact that they know I disagree with them on ONE THING unrelated to the topic here. So don’t try to pretend you’re little miss sweetness and light when you’re an instigator. And don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.

Well at least we know you’re a socialist.

Stay away from my wallet!

Your revolution is over before it even got started.
Obama is left with only change in his pocket.That’s why obama is going to throw his chips in and become a good republican..Fine with me!!
Hawkish on defense
Tax cuts for you and me…and maybe even more cuts for me!!

You’ve been had sucker…obama didn’t tell anybody who he really is because depending on the economy and the world he will be whatever is needed.

Right now he’s thrown you under the bus…

How droll. Bless your heart little troll.

That makes 58 incidents of Fraudbama throwing his worshippers under the bus. I will add detractor’s name ROFLMAO.

But yeah, I’m an “asshole” for understanding history and economics and saying things you either can’t understand or would rather not hear.

Now see, there you go again. I can’t have a conversation with someone who obviously knows it all.

Troll, you do not hurt my feelings. You are alienating everyone here. Do you SEE how MANY people are saying bad things about you? Wonder why? Like I said, I was scrolling through here and saw, yet again, that you were attacking my friends. I will always say something when that happens. Either STFU with your nonsense or it will keep happening. It’s okay to disagree on issues, but the way you talk is just plain fucking condescending, rude and egregious. Who the hell do you think you are?

Yes…B

There must be something much more interesting to talk about!

Jeez, my toenail clipping is more interesting than this crap.

detractor

noun
one who disparages or belittles the worth of something

I think I remember people saying crap like that in grade school. Niener Niener Niener….

We’ll see. You’d better hope he follows through with those tax cuts for the folks who have been getting crapped on for the past 30 years, because otherwise, this whole beyotch is goin’ down, and quickly.

We can agree on that!

This economy is a run way train right now. People are going to get hurt

I get much information from

http://patrick.net/housing/crash.html
2011 before housing comes back

and

http://www.rgemonitor.com/

Roubini has predicted a 5000 dow among other great predictions

I just don’t see the assasination of Odrama as being that bad for America. I wouldn’t shed a tear, I hate to say so, but I wouldn’t. Many of us would be upset to have to miss our favorite tv shows and turn off the tv for a week to a month and then we’d all breathe a sigh of relief, even if we’d then have to put up with POTUS Biden.

I’m sorry, but I would thank God.

You weren’t having a debate; you were pretending that things can just go on like they have for the past 30 years. The markets are indicating that they can’t. There’s a reason for that, one that you dismiss with the suggestion that people can just “go get a job” despite the fact that there are fewer of them every day, and fewer still that pay enough to support even one person, much less a family. Or at least that’s all I could gather from your comment that “that’s the way it is and that’s the way it should remain”. The way it’s been is that people’s wages continue to stagnate or fall while the cost of living continues to rise. It can’t “remain” that way if the economy is going to function for anyone but the very few at the top.

Who the hell do you think you are?

Someone who pwns you on a daily basis.

You’d better hope he follows through with those tax cuts for the folks who have been getting crapped on for the past 30 years, because otherwise, this whole beyotch is goin’ down, and quickly.

Silly child, is this your first experience with tough times?

I read Roubini as well.

My boss checks the Dow at least 15 times a day and makes himself sick over it. I tell him to just stop; if he’s not planning on buying or selling there’s no reason to continue making himself sick over it. I tell him, you should just ignore it, because it’s going to be 3 years before you get back to where you were.

What I don’t tell him is “3 years if you’re lucky.”

It would help if you actally spelled ‘pawns’ correctly. Comebacks kind of lose their snap when not delivered properly.

“Someone who pwns you on a daily basis?” WTF is PWNS?

If you mean “owns” wow are you a psycho freak. OMG that’s just too freaky for me.

No, old woman, it isn’t. (that’s for the “silly child” crack)

But this isn’t your run-of-the-mill stock crash of ’87 or recession of ’92 or recession of ’01. Which is what I’ve been trying to get across to you as you dismiss it as nothing out of the ordinary. It is VERY out of the ordinary.

It’s really a shame all the children voted for BOBO.

I see you’re not up on netspeak. Color me surprised.

You are a foolish little person. Have you ever owned a business or had employees?

You obviously know nothing about hard times. People were happy and doing well before the housing collapse. Peoples wages had nothing to do with the market collapse.

People like you and Obama are trying to use it as an excuse to turn this country in to socialism.

Ask the people in Cuba how’s it working for them.

F-R-E-A-K

What’s out of the ordinary about it? As in all capital recessions, people are afraid to risk their bundle and all the liquid cash drys up.

I do think they are dumb.

Election 2008, the dumbing down of America…mission accomplished!

The truth hurts, eh?

Let’s check in again in about 2 years to talk about the Greater Depression and how America collapsed on Otoken’s watch after the massive terror attack happened!

it seems the youngins are about to get their first taste of the road. But then, they can’t say they have been up and down it a few times until they take that very first trip.

Yes, I’ve owned a business now for 13 years, though I’m the sole employee other than contractors from time to time when I need help.

If you think people were doing well before the housing collapse, I have to ask what cave you’ve been hiding out in. Personal debt levels were at an all-time high (and still are), the direct result of zero wage gains over the past 8 years as gasoline went up 300% (now down some, thankfully) home heating went up 100%, food went up 50%, medical insurance went up 100%…wages are not unrelated to the housing collapse but aren’t the primary reason, but even without the collapse, people have been hurting for years now. Paying people enough to live on is not “socialism” – at some point you either do it or they can’t buy anything. That’s about where we are now.

No, old woman, it isn’t. (that’s for the “silly child” crack)

Well you’re either an old women too, or a silly child. Which one is it?

We all ready know you’re a know it all, fill us in on the rest.

here’s what’s different about it, at least one thing that’s different: there’s a negative personal savings rate and people are in hock up to their eyebrows. Take away the recession, and they still don’t have any money to spend thanks to their debts.

What I don’t tell him is “3 years if you’re lucky.”

Oh you know more about the economy and investing then your boss?

Netspeak? You mean that pseudo bastardization of the English language that the sad, pathetic people with no interpersonal skills use to communicate with others of similar spelling ability? Yeah, I’m happy to disappoint. Aaaaaaanyhow, this one is droll, guys, have fun, I’m off to do something more interesting like floss my dogs teeth or vacuum my couch.

So their employers need to pay them more so they can charge more on their credit cards?

detractor, people need to learn a lesson and that’s…DON’T SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE.

SB…ROFLMAO…Yeah, I think I will leave the Obot to sputter and fume too. My navel has some fuzz in it…

Neither my boss (the guy I subcontract to) nor I are financial planners or analysts. But yes, I have been following the economic trends a lot more closely than he has for the past 3 or 4 years. I knew the housing meltdown was coming a year before it showed up and talked him out of building a couple of houses he planned on building on spec. Which would have been completed right around Sept. of 2007 and on which by now he would have lost probably $100,000 or more. So apparently I know a few things because I bother to get informed more than some folks, including my boss.

Can you make a comment without being a smarmy jerk?

That’s an easy thing to say when you’re not a member of the 40% of the country making under 40K a year. An awful lot of the people who are in debt now aren’t in debt because of shopping sprees, but because their income isn’t covering basic expenses like housing, heating, food, and transportation. Really, do you know anyone outside of your gated community?

My boss checks the Dow at least 15 times a day and makes himself sick

So now we know, you are not only a know it all, you are a liar too!

I missed two.

Great test..made me think..

I’m a SUBCONTRACTOR. I have my own business and SUBCONTRACT OUT my services to another company, the head of whom it’s easier to refer to as “my boss” than to go through all of the above.

So, while I’m NOT a “liar” you ARE a flaming bag of crap looking for any excuse at all to be an ass.

“A flaming bag of crap looking for any excuse to be an ass?”

Let’s talk about that high IQ and class you have. ROFLMAO.

If you have your own business, you are the boss. The person who uses your services is your client.

I guess you have to define in hock up to your eyebrows. And you say they have no money to spend because of their debts. Now while that is certainly true for some people, it’s probably business as usual for those who lives haven’t been disrupted by a job lose or illness. If anything the reliance on credit will be reduced because of people reining in their spending because of uncertainty about the times. But that’s not a good thing. We have to keep the consumer dollars moving to keep this just a capital recession. If it becomes a consumer recession, that’s when we’re fucked.

Hopefully it doesn’t stink as bad as your breath.

Heh…and I’m sure the irony of answering a post about “pseudo bastardization of English that sad people with no interpersonal skills” with “SB…ROFLMAO” went right over your head.

Hilarious.

well, you could look upthread where I had answered the flaming bag of crap with something that clarified this business relationship before she ever made this post.

Ok, (LOL) you’ve officially gone insane. Let’s call it 23:28 to allow for the time it took to type “Flaming bag of Crap”

well, you and I are on the same page then. The problem is that even if you do all the normal “fixes” to pull the economy out of recession, you still have a lot of folks who can’t do any spending due to their debt load…and then you have to add to them the folks that go into debt just trying to keep their heads above water while the recession is in full swing. It’s an ugly situation.

I don’t know if we’re on the same page. The page you’re on is raving. The page I’m on, not so much.

I guess I don’t get why “flaming bag of crap” qualifies as insane while all the trite insults you folks post don’t.

Maybe it’s because I’m not insane.

Maybe some day when you get some meds, you will come back, look at your posts and realize that you are really on some high octane anger and rage.

Cut and paste any “raving” from the post you just responded to. Maybe then I’ll understand what your problem is.

it qualifies you as insane because you fancy yourself an intellectual, but the best retort you can counter with is flaming bag of crap. One of these things is not like the other…. Come on, sing with me (LOL)

Uhhh, yes I do as a matter of fact. There were 10 kids in my family and we were very poor. My father was ill and couldn’t work.

My mother didn’t know how to drive so she took in other peoples washing and ironing. I don’t think they had food stamps yet because we ate army surplus food.

I worked a swing shift in a factory and was a bartender in my spare time. I worked until I save enough money to buy a liquor license and opened a night club.

I worked around the clock until my club became very successful and then I sold it.

Some of my siblings worked hard and did very well too, some didn’t and live on the Government. I have relatives that live in Kentucky and are farmers, truck drivers, clerks and factory workers.

They are all making it just fine because they know how to survive.

see, if you can’t understand my problem, then we’re not on the same page.

Can you make a comment without being a smarmy jerk?

Can you asshole?

That’s good for you and your family.

But not everyone is in the same situation, and it’s not because they’re bad or lazy people. And as for your family, they may see some hard times as well if things really go south and businesses start laying off factory workers and clerks and truck drivers. There’s an awful lot of people out there living on low wages. I don’t want to hear about how they “should have gone to college” because even a lot of those folks are struggling, and the fact is, we only need so many doctors and lawyers and engineers…we also need carpenters, and bank clerks, and secretaries, and people doing those types of jobs, and they are hurting really bad in this economy, and have been hurting for years now. Their cost of living has gone up 30% or more overall, and their wages haven’t gone up at all. We don’t want them all to “retrain” because we need people to do those jobs – but how are you going to keep the economy moving if they aren’t even making enough to cover their basic living expenses? Where does the money for consumer spending to keep the economy moving come from? Doctors and lawyers and engineers and the like – they only need so many TVs and cars and washing machines. Not enough to really keep things moving.

Wildchild – oh, I see, the “raving” comment was just another ad hominem, there really wasn’t any “raving” in the post you replied to. Why didn’t you just say that?

dictator, I mean detractor,

I’m a SUBCONTRACTOR. I have my own business and SUBCONTRACT OUT my services to another company, the head of whom it’s easier to refer to as “my boss” than to go through all of the above.

Yeah, I see you tried to cover your tracks up post. You are a liar and a pathetic one at that.

i didn’t have to. I made one simple request.

Comment by WildChild | 2008-11-23 23:26:41

I guess you have to define in hock up to your eyebrows.

not only didn’t you do it. You launched off on a tangent about how we were on the same page. LOL but then I guess raving will do that to you.

What’s the matter, can’t think up a smarmy rebuttal to my response about the relative economic acumen of my boss (oh, yeah, the guy I subcontract for) and myself?

I’ve already told you, if you’re going to be an insulting ass, you’re going to be responded to in kind. So in answer to your question, no, not if you’re going to be a jerk everytime you address me. You can count on a reply that offers you the same level of respect you’re putting out there. Got a problem with that? Then stop being a jerk.

detractor–Time for bed, after all you have school tomorrow. Don’t forget to do a runthrough of your multiplication flashcards before you hit the sack.

remember in the future when you think yourself better than us, that you admitted here tonight, to be just like us

Hey Troll,

I think I understand netspeak now…Let’s see…

“Subcontractor” = “Paid OVomit Troll Sent to NQ To Annoy The Fuck Out Of Everyone”

I think you need a dictionary. There was nothing “raving” in my response; I was agreeing with you that a consumer recession would be a bad thing and that it looked likely due to conditions.

As to “in hock up to your eyebrows” question, I believe the most recent figures I’ve seen showed average household debt of $10,000+. Considering that’s 20% of the median income, that’s a lot – for most folks at the median income level, that level of debt would take at least 3 or 4 years to pay back.

Ah, the proud 25%er is off to bed. Nighty-night, neocon! How happy I am that you and your ilk have seen the last of your days in the sun!

As I said, I’m Bugs Bunny. I don’t instigate, but I also don’t turn the other cheek. So no, I’m not “just like you” because I don’t show up just start throwing crap at people. But I do throw it back when you toss it first.

Bless your heart. Sleep tight.

What region of the country are you working in, detractor? Do you base your trends nationally or come up with opinions based on textbooks? YEAH, I KNOW we are in a mess headed for a bigger mess. It’s not for reasons you opine about though. We don’t need to spread the wealth. We need to take personal responsibility for our lives.

Perhaps, however, you will feel happy to learn that India’s four richest realtors have just lost $33 billion dollars on investments. When four of the U.S.’s richest realtors lose the same, we can all be on equal footing?

People in “debt up or hock up to their eyeballs” are not necessarily those barely making a good wage. Unless you are referring to medical debt which affects all income brackets. But someone making under 40K is not likely to have a high enough FICO to get more than a couple of low limit credit cards. Anyone who is making 40K or less and is getting high limit cards is likely to be committing fraud. The couple making 250K however, with bad spending habits, might be in debt because credit card company allocate higher lines to higher salaries.

Based on what you post, detractor, I would say you forgot to study socioeconomics.

“Some” people in the U.S. have been hurting as that is how it’s always been. But obviously many many many people have been able to buy things over the last eight years other than gas and food. As one example, the pet industry has seen a spike, going from $24 billion in 2001 to $40 BILLION DOLLARS IN 2007. (The increase from 2006 to 2007 was five percent, not too shabby for supposedly a poor lot.)

When discretionary income is unavailable, pet products and vet visits are not a priority. Please, don’t tell me only the top tier were purchasing products for their furry friends during that time period because unless you were living in a cave, that was not the case.

ummm, average…anything, is the mean of all of a thing. Average household debt includes the ten percent (you’ve been raving about) that have all the money. With such a wide discrepancy in net worth and the lack of credit available to those with next to nothing. Average household debt doesn’t really tell you anything. You’d have to have a finer breakdown in order to make heads or tails of America debt load.

You’re way more generous than I am Kathy…I’m thinking more like drop dead.

LOL!!! Bots are more to be pitied than anything else.

LOL…Pity them? Hell no. BAN them. WTF? They got rid of that other lunatic TheAntiBigot. I wonder if he went out, climbed a bell tower and shot up a high school today.

that would depend if he got distracted ringing the bell.

LOL…we could just call the bots Quasi from now on…

Maybe you haven’t been following as closely as you think. You aren’t aware of the credit cards they send out to college kids, people who don’t even HAVE an income? The most recent stats are that the average family has something like 13 or 14 credit cards. I get at least 5 offers in the mail each week, and I’m not high income, and I already have $100K in credit limits on the 4 cards I have. You think the credit card companies have been paying any more attention to FICO scores than the mortgage lenders were? They don’t have to be “high limit” for that to cause problems. Your water heater goes out, and you have no money left over after paying the household bills? It goes on the credit card. Run out of groceries a week before payday? It goes on the credit card. You can argue that people SHOULDN’T do it, but the reality is, for a lot of folks over the past 5 or 6 years, they either put it on the credit card or go without hot water from here on out, or go hungry until they get paid…I’m sorry, but “personal responsibility” won’t keep a roof over your head if your 2 or 3 jobs simply don’t pay you enough to afford one. I don’t know who you work with every day, but I work with people in construction, and those guys are getting stretched to the limit – and they make better money than a lot of people do.

I still just want even ONE person to tell me how we are suposed to keep an economy moving when half the people have no money? You’re suggesting that money isn’t the issue; “personal responsibility” is. Well, that and a nickel won’t even buy you a breath mint. You can’t buy groceries with “personal responsibility”, or pay your rent, or your utilities – you can only pay with money that you earn through exercising that “personal responsibility”…which for more and more people, doesn’t cover the bills. How is that supposed to work?

Tell us something we don’t know.

Wait, I’ll tell you something you won’t admit – that the Democrats were perfectly happy to let all of this happen while they had their hand in the pie (or in someone else’s underwear).

Their platform might appeal more to your sensibilities but they’re just as bad. They used to be for the most part just inept and corrupt on a small scale, but they learned well from the Bush campaign, found a teflon candidate and went big time.

Then there’s ACORN, a sting the way the big boys do it. And Fannie and Freddie buying crap loans had to be motivated by greed because it was just too incredibly stupid to be anything else. And who received the most bribe money contributions from the two largest purchasers of loans on the secondary market? If you don’t know, look it up.

While you’re at it, look up the party affiliation of the former head of Fannie and what he was paid to help send the whole economy in to the toilet.

again you are going with averages. Each credit card you get negatively impacts your credit score making it less likely that you get additional credit. No payment on some of the more predatory cards gets a credit warning placed under your name and card offers cease. You’re saying you get five card offers a week. You don’t have to be high income to get that. You have a registered business. You’re on all their lists .. but even so, offers don’t translate into any kind of national debt profile. You’re inferring things from medians but you can’t for the reasons I stated earlier. So please stop raving about it.

Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 23:57:44

What’s the matter, can’t think up a smarmy rebuttal to my response about the relative economic acumen of my boss (oh, yeah, the guy I subcontract for) and myself?

Still trying to cover for that lie I see.
detractor =liar
asshole
know it all

Didn’t I tell you to get in bed??!!! What’s the matta with kids today…

If I was an admin here these bots would definitely have a short lifespan.

Yes, flaming bag of crap, I TIME TRAVELLED back in time to “cover my tracks”. As if it would be important. Look at the time stamps, dumbass.

Maybe they keep this VomitBot around for laughs.

“Flaming Bag of Crap?” Wow, that’s the tenth time you’ve used that. Maybe you can join your brother in botting, TheAntiBigot, and go pull a Columbine or something. Get help.

So their employers need to pay them more so they can charge more on their credit cards?

detractor, people need to learn a lesson and that’s…DON’T SPEND MORE THAN YOU MAKE.

Thank you. Heaven forbid if America would get back on the personal responsibility wagon. Obama’s the freeloader’s standard bearer–take from those who are creating jobs and doing and it to those sitting on their you know what. Bail out the over-mortgaged and irresponsible, and now the corporations are lining up for their government handouts. The cash register’s already open, and Obama’s headed to the White House. Cha-ching!

You know, F off. I’m not going to provide you with my incorporation papers. FWIW, dumbass, you COULD check the timestamps:

Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 23:05:49
Yes, I’ve owned a business now for 13 years, though I’m the sole employee other than contractors from time to time when I need help.

Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 23:15:22

Neither my boss (the guy I subcontract to) nor I are financial planners or analysts.

And then here’s your coup d’dumbass post – check the timestamp, moron:

Comment by tampagurl | 2008-11-23 23:19:14

My boss checks the Dow at least 15 times a day and makes himself sick

So now we know, you are not only a know it all, you are a liar too!

Eat it, asswipe.

Yes, flaming bag of crap, I TIME TRAVELLED back in time to “cover my tracks”. As if it would be important. Look at the time stamps, dumbass.

Temper temper…this is what happens when kiddies stay up past their bedtime.

Comment by detractor I’m sorry, but “personal responsibility” won’t keep a roof over your head if your 2 or 3 jobs simply don’t pay you enough to afford one

If 2 or 3 jobs doesn’t keep a roof over a persons head then,
a. They need to get a GED
b. They need to stop having kids.
c. They need a less expensive house.

This pissing contest continues unabated? Remember, both people in a pissing contest get drenched in urine.

I’m sure you’ll be singing that same song if we just let everyone pay for their sins of not making enough money and your job just goes away, right?

I mean, I love how naive some of you people are. Screeching about the “leeches” on, for example, foodstamps. As if the grocery store owner doesn’t benefit from those folks having money – in the form of foodstamps – to spend. As if that doesn’t trickle up to his suppliers, the trucking company that moves produce to the store, the farmers that grow the food. As if it doesn’t trickle down so he can pay employees, who then maybe can walk into your business and spend money.

There’s nothing “irresponsible” about not getting paid enough for the work you do. Productivity went up 20% over the past 8 years. Wages went up 0. But THAT wasn’t “socialism”…and those folks who worked harder and more efficiently to produce that increase? Why, they should just be happy with spending 30% more to stay alive. I mean, who cares if they can’t buy anything?

Well, you might, sometime in the near future. Because the economy isn’t the little simple machine the Republicans have been telling you it is. We more or less sink or swim together. And a lot of you folks? You’re cheering on the drowning. Hopefully we won’t have to find out how that works out for you.

you wouldn’t by chance own a feather boa, would you?

You’re not going to get a lot of sympathy for that “spread the wealth around” socialist crap. Go move to Cuba. Really, we won’t stop you. I’m going to bed soon. This whole thing is a farce. But, then again, so was the “selection” of your azzhole boss, Fraudbama, the biggest FRAUD perpetrated on the American voters in our history. Get a life Obot. It’s really simple…Stimulate the economy, help business grow, more jobs, retail, gas and everything follow. That doesn’t really help the lazy azzholes who want to smoke crack, have 15 illegitimate kids, sit around living off people who do work, and whining that they don’t have their hands deep enough in our pockets. Get off it. I think you will see that, despite the fact that you think you voted in a commie wing nut who will turn this country into nothing but a welfare state, you are wrong. He has no intention of handing lazy azzes our cash. He’s about to make tax cuts, which he should.

Why? You want me to tickle your ass with a feather?

No thanks, not my thing.

Okay that’s it…really, puke came up on that one. Ughhh…I TOLD you that you need a tune-up pyscho.

ahh, but the fantasy is. It’s safer that way. LOL, no its just after giving a speech like that, you could give it the just needed touch of drama by flinging your feather boa around your neck and exiting…stage left.

You’re not going to get a lot of sympathy for that “spread the wealth around” socialist crap. Go move to Cuba.

No need. If you have your way, and we let the 30 or 40% of the people in this country who work hard but aren’t paid a living wage just slip through the cracks, Cuba will come to us. Personally, I don’t get off on the idea of putting down people who work hard and don’t like the idea of them living in shacks. Then again, I’m obviously a better person than you are.

Did I hit a nerve LIAR?

Eat it, asswipe.

I already told you I owned a night club, eat it ass wipe is baby talk to me.

hey, tampgurl, you also got pwned upthread.

from my experience, if you have to say she did… she didn’t

Apparently you’re too damn stupid to read timestamps as well. Wow, THAT’S a surprise.

We’ve already established that your “experience” is of zero value.

now when you say we, is the we outside of you, or inside?

Ta-ta, dimwits!

ahh, but the fantasy is. It’s safer that way. LOL, no its just after giving a speech like that, you could give it the just needed touch of drama by flinging your feather boa around your neck and exiting…stage left.

ROTFL!! I’d like to do a Gong Show gong and then yank it off stage with a big cane.

don’t forget the feather boa….(LMAO) don;t forget the feather boa…

Your name should be know it all, and the only stupid one hear is you!
———————————–
Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 22:53:31 My boss checks the Dow at least 15 times a day
———————————–

Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 23:05:49
Yes, I’ve owned a business now for 13 years

———————————-
Comment by detractor | 2008-11-23 23:15:22

Neither my boss (the guy I subcontract to) nor I are financial planners
————————————
Doesn’t matter when I called you a liar, you had plenty of time to catch your own faux pas.

now when you say we, is the we outside of you, or inside?

Still ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!

poor detractor has an inferiority complex, maybe we should cut her some slack.

Seriously, can you say serial killer in training? Wow. You guys are way more patient with the Obot nutjobs than I am.

Detractor, is your boss one of those heading to Washington, D.C. looking for a $250 billion handout? Toll Brothers, Centex and other homebuilders are lobbying for their share of the pie. Gotta get your piece.

Or how about, stop building shit no one is buying.

College kids are getting credit card offers, sure. But no one is forcing them to apply and then run their cards up. Where is their responsibility? Did they think these were Christmas presents? Also, lots of college kids are authorized users on their parents’ cards and form credit histories. Which is how many kids get offers in the first place. Without a history or FICO, you’re not going to see large credit lines.

Yeah, you don’t need an income to get a credit card, true. But if that person states “0″ on their application under salary, how much of a credit line do they receive??? If they did manage to become an anomaly and score say 20 grand, they still have the responsibility of paying for things they buy.

No my patients is wearing thin. She’s all over the place and arguing with everyone. Stick a fork in me I’m done.

This is from one of the links you provided to support your case Freddie and Fannie did not contribute to the financial crisis:

“We’ve heard a lot of people stand up and say, `Fannie and Freddie really did not promulgate the problems; they weren’t big players,”’ said Joshua Rosner, an analyst with Graham Fisher & Co., an independent research firm in New York. “Actually, they were.”

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Go back and read your own links. I’m not sure why you are here unless you are trying to run people off this great blog and, if that’s your plan, we have seen worse and survived.

Whatever, the reason, I won’t address your comments again. You are one sick puppy and I recommend some serious counseling.

I think we have better things to do LOL.

You know…I’ve been doing alot of that myself! It helps allay my terror of the mounting upcoming Gestapo attack on the American Citizen/middle class…not to mention the pending destruction of everything a real American holds dear and swears to uphold (not mock): the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Our only recourse is to come together to pray to GOD and Boycott ANY and ALL companies, medias, politicians conspiring against us. The usual means of political representation IS DEAD.

To you cops out there….I hope you are seriously contemplating what your “NO SIR, I WILL NOT OBEY THAT ORDER” threshold is. If not, you better start.

Radio dj’s call the Kenyan Embassy.
They don’t start talking to the ambassador until about 4.5 minutes into it.
He doesn’t start discussing obama until about 12:20. He says that obama’s birthplace is already an attraction in Kenya.
Click on ‘play now’ at link.
http://my.wrif.com/mim/?p=916