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THE WAR OF THE SEXES

By Dr. Lynette Long on November 24, 2008 at 5:20 PM in Sexism

Originally written November 15th, and posted at Dr. Lynette Long’s blog. I’m REVVED for Dr. Long’s radio show tonight at 9:00 p.m. ET. She always makes me feel empowered, and that good feeling lasts at least a couple days — well, until some man is bemused by my or another woman’s remarks, or makes me feel “less than” in any number of ways, or uses the dreaded “e” word (emotional). Don’t get me wrong — I adore communicating with men, but most of them like being “top dawg,” and have that certain way of letting one know. I never seem to remember that the mantra of manhood is “never let them see you sweat,” which runs counter to my instinct of openly talking about my wounds, my faults, my issues, especially when I am in real-life stressful situations and need to vent. My mother always told me, with bitterness in her voice, “It’s a man’s world.” It still is. And they remind us often. It behooves me to conceal who I am more often. Everything works better that way. Men are as much “victims” of their enculturation as we women are. It’s hard for them to learn too. It’s best we be careful in communications with them, I find. My two cents. (By the way, Larry Johnson has no problem with this blog having more female than male writers. Another blog I once was involved in was missing a “woman writer” when I left; the owner lamented my leaving one day because some bill passed about women’s issues, and he wished there were a woman around to write about it. Uh, why didn’t HE write about it?) – nasuS
…………………………………

LYNETTE’S STORY: I met three friends for dinner at a popular local restaurant.  When I arrived my friends were already there.  One was sitting at the corner of a packed bar while the other two were standing behind her.  Beside them were three guys would not release two seats they were saving "for friends" for at least 30 minutes.  When I arrived, one of my friends eager to find me a seat, tried to take one of the seats held by the guys, saying she would be happy to return the seat once his friends arrive. 

He pulled the seat back and yelled, "You are just a bunch of C****."  What??? Haven’t we seen that word emerge during the very recent Presidential Campaign?  I was flabbergasted.  I have never in my life heard a woman called the C word. Ouch.

The women asked the bartender to take charge and ask the guys to give up one of the seats he as saving.  The bartender would not intervene.  His response was a cold, "His friend is parking the car."

The second of the four of us was infuriated and went and had a long talk with the manager.  I could not hear what she said, but the manager sheepishly asked one of the guys for a stool. No, again. Frustrated the women who had spoken to the manager, poured a glass of water on the head of the most aggressive of the guys.  He turned around, grabbed her my friend by the hair with his left had, pulled her down, and dragged her across the restaurant floor while punching her in the face with his right hand. Three patrons pulled him off.   

As I watched, it all seemed so surreal.  I had enough of my wits about me to call the police as soon as the fight started.   As we waited for the police to arrive, the three guys took off angry and triumphant.  I followed them for a couple of blocks hoping they would slip in to one of the many restaurants around the corner, which they did not. 

When the police came we stepped outside to explain what happened.  When the woman who was assaulted told the police they called us a C****, he said, "That’s a part of a horse."  When she showed him her broken glasses and bruised face, he said, "You started the fight." Something is not right here, a woman’s been pummeled in the face and you tell me it’s her fault.  Disgusted, we left, found another restaurant and had dinner.

This morning I called a lawyer who is an expert in these matters.  After reviewing the facts her response was calling a woman a C**** is not a hate crime, throwing water on someone is considered an assault, and you’re lucky the guys left or your friend who was pummeled would have been arrested.

What’s my take the morning after?  I have never witnessed such hostility from relatively sober men in an upscale restaurant.   I understand my friend’s frustration at not being able to get the manager, the bartender, or anyone to defend her after we were called C****.  We are a group of women, too old to trade on our sexuality, and too young to garner the deference given a senior citizen.  We also didn’t understand our place.  We had the audacity to repeatedly ask for a chair hogged by men.  Did my friend cross the line by pouring a drink on someone’s head?  Of course.  Did she deserve to be dragged by the hair and pummeled in the face?  Of course not. The intensity of his response was unconscionable.   

I think we cannot dismiss the election’s place in all this.  The world watched as Hillary Clinton and Sara Palin were eviscerated by the main stream media.  Calling women C**** was tolerated.  Demeaning and disrespecting women was deemed OK.  A young potent male was victorious over an older women.  It was a symbolic victory on many deep psychological levels.  I am afraid last night was just the beginning and that there will be more crimes against women.  Times have changed and not for the better.  I can smell it in the air.

  • http://none maq

    Were any pictues taken while this vile incident took place. By customers or security surveillance cameras in the establishment or nearby ATMs et c etc,. Or while in pursuit.

    Time to publiclly identify the guys. If they were like this for a chair what are they like in their own turf. Their boyfriends or girlfriends must have been on the wrong side of the fist too. Investigate them.
    Get them chastged on related behavior.

    Hire an investigator. There are quite a few divorce investigators who could use their technigues to your favor.

    In laymans terms there is more than one way to FFFF them.

    • susan

      Were there no other women in this restaurant? If so, what were they doing? I could barely breathe while reading this horrendous account! What’s next? Condoning mass rape of women in this country as in others? Shocking! His mother must be so very proud.

    • Ellen D

      Time to identify THE BAR/RESTAURANT. Anybody else feel like going there?
      BTW – when I do it, I accidentally spill my drink in their lap and apologize profusely. Clumsy me.

      • elsie

        Really, we need to know that restaurant so we can start a boycott and warn other women not to patronize the place.. In this economy a restaurant would be foolish to act this way to their customers.. They need customers.. and if a local news reporters are hungry for stories feed it to them, the way Obama and his group feed the media of stories how bad his opponents were.

        Give them a black eye (bad rating on the website that is asking for ratings and comments) so the whole community will know about them and people will eventually take notice and will avoid this establishment.

        • Kal

          Male bonding comes in many strange and unexpected forms. This sounds like another one.

          Women are always demonized in the legal process, turned into provocateurs, ‘deserve it,’ etc. The imbalance between what a woman does and what the man does supposedly ‘because she nagged me’ always gets erased or turned around.

          Have you considered a complaint to the police board and the chamber of commerce, to take it up to the management levels of both types of male-dominated establishments?

          PUMA!!!

    • Kissn

      I agree… Make the identity of the establishment known!

      The best friend of a restaurant/bar is publicity, it is also the worst enemy when negative. Unless they eliminated the first amendment overnight you have the right to free speech… identify them. Share the ‘love’. Having owned a hotel with a four star restaurant/bar I, and my managers on my behalf, had our own occasions to eject undesireables, never to darken our door again. My pregorative to refuse service to anyone for any reason, let alone a physical assault a recorded police call.

      If your friend was physically assaulted as in visibly, bruises, trauma, “pummeled?”, etc, she has her own cause of action … one act does not negate the other; and you would have witness statements available, too. Although, that you managed to compose yourselves and just ‘find another restauant to have dinner’, disgusted or not, does not work in your favour.

      I fear you missed your ‘strike while the iron is hot’ moment, but I would still get a second legal opinion. A law was broken here and to do nothing is to acquiesce to the victimization of women.

      Good Luck Dr. Long ~

      • Ferd Berfle

        BS. That woman has a civil suit, as a minimum.

      • kathie in Arkansas

        She was the initial agressor and poured a drink on him. Depending on the jurisdiction though, he may have had a duty to retreat. If not, his self defense is lost once he escalated the assault. Being dragged by the hair and pummeled is way beyond any privilege he had, he could and should have been arrested for battery. I am upset as well as to where the women were in the restaurant, at what point do we stop allowing men to divide and conquer us and start banding together in sisterhood?

        By all means post the name of that restaurant.

        • Ferd Berfle

          His use of the c word was a provocation. She at least has a civil suit, should she choose to act upon it. See Katmoon’s post towards the end of this thread.

  • cathnealon

    The world not only watched as Palin and Clinton were ‘eviscerated” by everyone (from NYT female writers to conservative female writers to pop culture people like Madonna, Fey and scores of other Hollywood types to the men, BO himself, Jon Stewart, Letterman,Leno and then the male pundits and cable news men) they participated–look at the leftist websites that had photos, drawings,etc of Palin and Clinton in the most violent and sexual scenes. Laugh it up–now we see what the last 30 years of pop culture has done not only to young men but to young women. If progress was being made toward women’s right to feel equal and safe in the world then the 80′s and 90′s with the sexulaiztion of women in music, literature,television, fashion, movies and magazines has set us back once again.

    • Seattle Moss

      Personally I was left speechless.
      If someone were to tell me this time last year how women were going to attack other women and how the MSM and certain guys were going to enable the sexism I just wouldn’t of thought it possible.

      I just don’t get it!!

      Can someone help me understand!

  • HARP

    Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There’s just too much fraternizing with the enemy.

    • Seattle Moss

      Isn’t that the truth, LOL

      • SFIndiePUMA

        I don’t know about you, but I don’t fraternize with a-holes like those men. There are a lot of good men out there, many of whom comment regularly here at NQ, and I don’t consider them enemies. I DO consider any man OR woman who engages in, or condones, sexism and misogyny to be an enemy of ALL people.

        I don’t take it lightly, nor do I laugh about it. I’m 57 now, and went through my fair share of sexism in the workplace. If any employer treated a female employee the way I was treated at one particular job back in my 20s, he’d probably be in jail. Back then, it was the norm.

        Seattle Moss, I respect the hell out of you, but you seem to play up the “women attacking other women” aspect a bit much. Blame it on the men, why don’t you. Or better yet, blame it on society as a whole. It’s the environment we’ve created.

        If women didn’t feel they had to act like “one of the boys” in order to be accepted and get ahead, women would be less likely to attack other women. Yes, there will always be people whose lack of self-esteem causes them to tear down others in order to feel better about themselves. But until we change society as a whole, and treat men and women equally, until women AND men demand a cessation of sexism and misogyny, it’s not going to change.

        Even Sarah Palin, whom I respect immensely, said that women shouldn’t complain, they should just take it and work harder to prove themselves. I think that’s bullshit. Women need to STOP taking the abuse. Women need to START fighting back.

        If anything positive is to come out of the debacle of this election year, let it be that women rise up again and FUCKING FIGHT BACK!

        • Margaret

          Well, I do think women are responsible for attacking other women, just the same as men are responsible for attacking women. Yes, we are raised in a culture that teaches us attacking women is acceptable and normal and fun and all that, but each person is still accountable for their choices.

          • SFIndiePUMA

            Yes, they are responsible and should be held accountable. But there is a “causal factor” in all this, and until that is brought into the bright light of day, and dealt with, everything else is just bandaids.

        • Seattle Moss

          Hello SF Indy,
          you wrote….actually can some body tell me how to copy and paste a comment better

          Anyway you wrote…
          Seattle Moss, I respect the hell out of you, but you seem to play up the “women attacking other women” aspect a bit much. Blame it on the men, why don’t you. Or better yet, blame it on society as a whole. It’s the environment we’ve created.”

          Yes the Overbite and tweetie show are disgusting..I would enjoy an old fashioned brawl with those wimps…But what about Dowd who I always looked forward to reading..What’s her deal?

          • SFIndiePUMA

            Hey, Seattle Moss,

            To copy and paste, just highlight the part of the comment you want to paste, right click your mouse to copy, place your cursor in the “reply” box, and right click again to paste. To block quote it, highlight the text you want to block quote, then click on the html codes above – the one that says “bquote” and shazam, there you are!

            As for Dowd, or Mitchell, or Mika, or any of the other women who were as sexist as the men, I don’t know what they’re trying to prove. I don’t know what they’re afraid of, I don’t know what they abhor within themselves that is projected out to other women, I don’t know how they were raised or whose approval they’re trying to get. I wish I did understand. But it’s obviously a serious problem in our society, and one that deserves attention.

            • Seattle Moss

              To copy and paste, just highlight the part of the comment you want to paste, right click your mouse to copy, place your cursor in the “reply” box, and right click again to paste. T

              Thanks

              • http://tojo toni

                To copy and paste, just highlight the part of the comment you want to paste, right click your mouse to copy, place your cursor in the “reply” box, and right click again to paste.

                Just checking to see if it works!

            • Seattle Moss

              To block quote it, highlight the text you want to block quote, then click on the html codes above – the one that says “bquote” and shazam, there you are!

              • Seattle Moss

                This is not working. I would like to get it all nice between the blue line

                • SFIndiePuma

                  This is not working. I would like to get it all nice between the blue line

                  It should work! Once you’ve pasted the text into the reply box, highlight the entire text you want blocked again, and while it’s highlighted click on the “bquote” link.

                  You’ll see this code in front of the blocked text:

                  (no space though, between the < and the b)

                  At the end of the blocked text, you’ll see this code:

                  (again, no text)

                  • Seattle Moss

                    It should work! Once you’ve pasted the text into the reply box, highlight the entire text you want blocked again, and while it’s highlighted click on the “bquote” link.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Thanks sf indy

                  • SFIndiePuma

                    Oops, I thought if I left a space in there, the text would show up and not the blocking!

                    Anyway, the opening code will be the “less than” sign, blockquote, and the “greater than” sign. The closing will be the “less than” sign, /, blockquote, and “greater than” sign.

                    I hope that makes sense!

            • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

              I wish Dr. Lynnette Long or some other professional would analyze Dowd’s writings from a clinical perspecive. Perhaps then we might figure out what is going on in that troubled head of hers.

              • Ferd Berfle

                The short answer is that her bacon has been frying too long.

            • Kathleen Wynne

              These women are only able to hold these positions as long as they “do as they’re told”. They had to choose between selling out or doing the right thing. I guess they thought doing the right thing carried too high a price and maybe they do have a point. I still remember the over the top uproar by the MSM when Katie Couric simply implied that Hillary was the victim of sexism during the primary!

              Surely, to acknowledge that sexism exists will mean that it must be dealt with and stopped! Why would men who condone such behavior in the first place ever want to acknowledge that it exists? The way they see may be, what’s in it for me, if sexism were ever to be acknowledged as wrong?

              Women must come to terms with the reality that if we ever want to get respect from men, we must first have it for each other, especially when it comes to standing up for one another and not backing down, when things get rough.

              I have no illustions that achieving equality will be a hard fought battle (as all battles for women’s rights have always been), and that is the last remaining obstacle for women to break down in order to be able to live their lives in full measure, as men have been able to do since the beginning of time. What a great and terrible loss to the world that women have been so oppressed for so long!

              If we can just figure out how to explain it to men that equality with women will not diminish their stature or their place in the world, but will only enhance it far beyond what it is now.

        • Ani

          Even Sarah Palin, whom I respect immensely, said that women shouldn’t complain, they should just take it and work harder to prove themselves.

          Sarah Palin made this statement BEFORE she was in the middle of the firestorm. I think she has since revised her belief on this point — as well she should.

          I figured she would. I am sure she had been on the receiving end of plenty of sexism in the past, but not until she got into the Presidential campaign did she get a taste of what Hillary has had to chew on for 15 years.

          I think she now knows better.

          • Jackie

            Her point was not that women should “take the abuse” but that complaining about it gives the “enemy” a flank to exploit.

            If a woman absorbs the abusive language and comes back aggressivly she is brave if she complains about it she is labled a whiner and weak.

            Until women quit worring about the next sexual encounter and grow up we will all suffer at the hands of the abusers like Obama and his ilk. What happened in this past election was women wanted so desperately to be approved of by a man that they were willing to damn themselves and their daughters. Because Obama and other men in their lives spouted an opinion they mimicked it for cooing apporval. Like little kittens they curled up on the crotch of a man who expressed contempt for who and what they are.

            As a woman I am disgusted at my gender. I have threatened my daughters with in an inch of their lives that they shall never seek a man’s approval in order for them to value themselves. They will be strong and aggressive and independent; if not they risk being disowned!

            Hillary had the stage to stand up and defend a fellow woman and she did not. Sarah Palin took the abuse in spades and continues too–look an Doonsbury–she did not cry foul or whine. She took it like only a woman can and she stood there and shot right back with grace and class. I hope she has the stomach to make a shot in 2012. I will be there to help her and confront every sexist bastard out there.

            • lorac

              yeah, I think often it’s “identifying with the aggressor”, in the hopes that he will not mistreat YOU, as he has other women. Trying to save yourself, while selling all the other women down the river.

          • lorac

            I think you’re right – during one of Greta’s interviews with Sarah, Sarah said something to the effect of not realizing what a misogynistic firestorm happens on the naional level, she said it isn’t like that in Alaska, and she said that she had a new appreciation for what Hillary went through..

            Other than that, I had always assumed that the “no griping” remark had more to do with avoiding the sexist remarks that would come at her (she’s complaining, she’s a wimp, can’t send a woman to do a man’s job, etc). Or perhaps she might have had “lezzie” remarks or “women’s libber” remarks through at her, had she dared to address the sexim.

            How interesting that Obama can decry racist remarks (except for his own race-baiting), but he isn’t being slammed, or being called militant, or “griping”…..

    • oowawa

      HARP, I think this is a really great comment–witty, concise, and perceptive. Women have fathers, husbands, and brothers, whom they love (and sometimes hate). Men have mothers, wives, and sisters, whom they love (and sometimes hate). The battle lines keep getting confused. Other battle lines continually cut across the gender battle line and confuse the issue further: race, class, tribe, national identity, income level, ideology, and so on. We have to keep reminding people that the war for gender equality can not be forgotten and is nowhere near finished. The first step I think is to get rid of the obvious gender bigots in the media–Goodbye Tweety, Goodbye Herr Olbermann–your days of commanding a national audience are numbered.

  • mountain girl

    My understanding is that Dr Long knows the owner of the bar, who is a woman, and she was going to talk to the owner about the incident rather than reveal the name of the bar. Did Dr Long talk to the owner? What was the result of the converation? What is the name of this bar?

  • SantaFeK

    This is stunning. It bespeaks to the level of anger in the country, the disdain for women, and the acceptability of violence against women, not to mention the lack of civility in everyday interactions.

    Why should I be surprise? I am always grateful, even surprised when I am treated with courtesy, instead of expecting good manners and civility always. And I live in a civil place by and large. (I’m a female-type person, of the mature variety.)

  • Pingback: THE WAR OF THE SEXES : NO QUARTER at Hillary Clinton On Best Political Blogs

  • pm317

    Dr. Long, pl. identify which restaurant it is. If we can shame them, may be the next time around, they will try to do the right thing for ALL their patrons.

    • susan

      No self-respecting woman would ever enter that reataurant again if she knew what took place there. I agree a boycott might change the owner’s response in the future.

  • http://thatsmeontheleft.blogspot.com/ Puget Sound Island Girl

    When I read this the other day I was in total shock.

    What happened to our world? Did it change or are we just more aware/sensitive and not going to take this crap anymore?

    I don’t know. . . but I am pissed.

    When I am pissed I like to giggle:

    Click and watch—-giggles are good for YOU!

    http://tinyurl.com/5jrnqn

  • kavala007

    Real men do not behave that way. Faux men do. These guys are pathetic both as men and as human beings. They have been so poorly parented that they do not know how to behave. Pathetic.

    The owner needs to establish some rules and protect all of her customers. If nothing is done to rectify the situation Dr. Long should name the restaurant so that real men and women can avoid it. Boycotts work.

    • Hap Hazard

      agree on all points.

    • Seattle Moss

      Kavala,

      You hit it right on the nail..As a guy that visits this site often I’m embarrassed!!

      Real men don’t treat women this way..What happened to being a Gentlemen.
      Did that also die in 2008

      • wodiej

        YES….and thank you for your support.

        • Seattle Moss

          Wodiej..I feel that we are all part of a close nit family of patriots that really care about America, the traditions of this great country and the advancement of women.

          Equality and fairness..Is it too much to ask!!

          I’m glad I have done my part in hiring only the best to run my plant.Industrial plants like mine are usually run by Men..Not mine!
          I have the sharpest woman in the industry running this plant…

          You should see the looks of the guys I do business with when I tell them who is in charge.

          • TeakWoodKite

            Don’t ya love it? Seattle?

            That look? Priceless.

            I am not clear on the time frame of this story…but it is no way unique.

            The more theological and away culture gets the more abuse is heaped on the women. This country is moving backwards, save for the shear numbers of women enrolled in higher education over men, it all started with who changes the O’s diaper.

            • Seattle Moss

              Teekwoodkite..I deal with a company up here called East Teak..They supply all the very fine exotic woods.

              Yes, the look on guys faces who I know have a sexist bent is priceless.
              I believe I have changed many minds this year especially about Hillary. What freaks these guys out is how unabashedly pro Hillary I am and I don’t shirk an inch in my continued support.

              • TeakWoodKite

                Seattle Moss, same hear and second what andy said. :)

                Hey, in the interest of making kites, they have a site?

                • Seattle Moss

                  They are very good suppliers
                  http://www.eastteak.com/

                  • TeakWoodKite

                    My boat decks loves ya! Thanks for the linky.

                    One of these days I will sail around the world along the coasts of the seven seas, studying musical indiginous musical instraments for a doctorate in Ethno-musicology.

                    Wonder where I can write a grant for that. As if anyone would fund it…LOL.
                    Until then, I’ll make kites and windchimes.

                  • TeakWoodKite

                    Seattle neat gallery they have, Teak Hot Tubs
                    Now that’s what I am talking about. Good place for a battle.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Yeah Teak!

                      Great battle of the sexes. Count me in! With a little champagne and all things nice.

              • lorac

                A proud guy in a Hillary tshirt is a major turn on!

          • Andy

            That’s great Seattle Moss. Proud to “know” you
            (cybernetically speaking).

            Lynette Long’s story is shocking …

            • Seattle Moss

              Prud to know you too..Andy

              When I was a young guy in the late 70′s I never found it all that thrilling to drive by women and kat call and shout vulgarities.
              These guys liked to try to take advantage of the hot car I drove..

              I can never remember these guys having a girlfriend..Just hooping and hollering and drinking up a blather..The fools

              What’s funny..I always had a good date!

              • Andy

                Seattle Moss:

                What’s funny..I always had a good date!

                That’s b/c women usually know who are the smart men ;-)

          • Jackie

            I think that it is important to realize that all society is improved when the condition of women is improved. We are not seeking the promotion of women over men. We are seeking the improvement of the entire society and the respect for women because of who they are and what they can do. With out women the need for society goes away.

            We are the source of children and that has to be honored and admired and held accountable.

            We need the best among us (the society as a whole) to be advanced without checking the flavor of gonads.

            Respect is all I am after. If you will give me the respect of human rights and allow me to prove my quality I am golden. Do NOT give me special breaks or appreciation days I do not need that. I am a full member of the community and I damned well better be treated with the respect that comes with being a member of the human race.

      • HARP

        When a man talks dirty to a woman, it’s sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it’s $3.95 a minute.

        • beebop

          Is that net to her after tax? Maybe I should expand my horizons ….

    • Ferd Berfle

      You are spot on. These aren’t men but frat boys who couldn’t fill up a good-sized chair. An man who saw that disgusting behavior and did nothing about it is scum, too.

      • JustMe

        men with little self esteem act in this way!!
        They feel powerful attacking women.
        Had it of been another man it would of been
        Yes mate sure no problem!!

        I married a man that sounds just like these asses.
        Hense I did a moonlight flit through a window to get away!!! 16months was long enough …
        Thy do not stop…..!!!!

        WE need to see their faces all over….
        Shame them infront of their buddies/work colleges etc.

    • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

      The owner needed to intervene—period! Because she didn’t someone was attacked on the premises. She’s responsible too, I’m afraid.

  • SHV

    “Were any pictues taken while this vile incident took place. By customers or security surveillance cameras in the establishment or nearby ATMs et c etc,. Or while in pursuit.”
    *************
    Good point…A cell phone camera is a powerful weapon in this kind of situation..

    • beebop

      Women are going to have to be prepared to not only defend themselves, but have a plan for their defense. The cell phone is an excellent idea. Confident, straight forward, non-antagonistic but no-prisoners-taken language in a calm, non-threatening voice is hard to muster if you don’t rehearse a couple of lines that you can reach for just as confidently as you would a can of pepper spray. Just one woman’s opinion.

      • JustMe

        I am in shock how degrading on a night out to have dinner with friends….

        They need to be emabarrased into shame…

        I trust your friend is OK?

        My goodness. What is happening in the world to abuse women like this…

    • Andy

      Good point…A cell phone camera is a powerful weapon in this kind of situation..

      Yes, if one can react quickly enough….

      My phone is pretty simple and actually has a video (w/audio) option.
      Women should start “You-Tubing” these men.

  • wodiej

    thank you for sharing your story. I have always felt and been very outspoken about the unfair way women are treated in society. You are exactly right. Even if men dont’ say anything, you can tell by their body language and their demeanor that they think they are better or somehow more superior than you are.

    Unfortunately I am not suprised by your story. The police typically will not intervene when a woman is in trouble unless she’s dead. Then it’s too late but at least they dont’ have to lose their male bonding eh? My general opinion of men is not good to say the least. I interact w them as little as possible. Men can lie, cheat, steal, but if a woman asks for a chair, she’s a cunt. Nice. Well Obama pushed us farther down the toilet. I wonder how those little female obots will feel when their obot boyfriend calls them a cunt, smacks them or does something else abusive to them? They will probably spend a good portion of their life feeling like they are worthless before they finally figure it out. Women perpetuate and encourage these ideas almost as much as men do. Where do we think women learn this type of mentality that it is ok to be shit on by men? If they didn’t, there would be alot more single women and more men acting like they have some respect for women.

    Your friend shouldn’t have poured the water on the guys head and he did not have to give up the seat he was saving. However he never should have reacted violently and what he did to your friend was out of line.

    • TeakWoodKite

      wodiej,

      The water wounded the guys ego in front of his buds. oops.
      If I was that out of line and got a shower for my trouble, I would not have found that reason to come to blows. But here lies the issue, in that while I was raised to understand opening a door for a lady is not to demeen her but as a sign of repsect. Some women I have met ahbor this type of chivalry, yet I feel it does not preclude an equal footing for women.

      Others may disagree, but I strongly believe girls should be taught some form of self defense or Aikdo starting in elementary school. Perhaps this woman might have “resolved” the situation right then and there.

      Growing up it was all males except for mom…now it is the opposite… I am it.
      Life is funny that way.

      • lorac

        I don’t mind a man holding a door open to me if he is in front of me, and if I am also allowed to open the door if *I* am the first one to the door. We need politeness all around!

        I’ve noticed on TV that “come backs” are always now greater in intensity. Used to be if someone gave you the finger, you’d give it back. If they called you a swear name, you did it back. If they hit you with a fist, you hit them back with a fist.

        Now even the slightest “slight” is responded to – not with an equal response – but way up on the violence chain. I don’t know if TV is imitating life or vice versa, but with this new pattern of not keeping things equal, it quickly moves to heavy violence.

    • /www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo&eurl trixta

      Please don’t paint all men as brutes. I happen to live with and know others who are quite evolved when it comes to gender issues. Men also need to police other men when such abuse occurs. Where were the other men in that restaurant, anyway?

  • bob

    The women should’ve asked to speak to management immediately and lodged a complaint right then. If those men weren’t asked to leave, they should’ve talked to the owner/corporate head. Ladies have to anticipate that this kind of stuff happens all the time and react to it right away.

  • Hap Hazard

    incredible story. It is all the more offensive because so many in the establishment had an opportunity to intervene at several different stages, but did nothing. The police are particularly awful here as well.

  • notrees

    Pull that in a beer joint and cue sticks begin to take on a life of their own, AND STITCHES ARE GENERALLY REQUIRED. Anyone who assume the position of a man had damned well better be ready to defend that position. Whether it is a man or a woman.

    • mountain girl

      I agree. Pouring water on someone’s head is an act of agression. Just because you are a woman doesn’t make it ok. On the other hand, calling someone a C for asking for a chair is pretty extreme also. I personally would not have asked beyond the first time. People save seats all of the time whether I like it or not I don’t start a confrontation over it.

      • notrees

        Hell they (the Xtians) even save seats in churches. Can you just imagine someone in church pouring water on someone because they will no not give up a saved seat? LOL! But G-D those cue sticks will make a BELIEVER out of you for sure. LOL! Life is a learning experience.

        • beebop

          There are usually plenty of other options in a house of worship. Are you speaking out of ignorance or to demonstrate it? Couldn’t continue your little hahahaha with faux outrage about “holy” glass of water?

          Please.

          If you have nothing to contribute, sit on your hands.

          • notrees

            Just because a woman is a woman doesn’t mean she is entitled to someone elses chair. If you don’t think so just ask the woman who got dragged across the floor by the hair. LOL!

            • beebop

              Your time would be better spent studying for your learner’s permit you little creep. Or are you here pimping for your father?

      • Jillie

        would it have been ok if the man had pulled out a gun and shot her? his reaction was totally over the top and he should have been arrested.

        • Margaret

          Absolutely.

          • JustMe

            notrees you little shit ass

            asking for a chair UNTIL their friend arrived is not out of line…
            However your LOL shows what an ass you are.

            YOUR DISGUSTING…. LETS MAKE SURE YOUR FACE IS PLASTERED ALL OVER TOO..

            • Seattle Moss

              notrees has never had a guy with any class!

              Has a guy ever held the car door for you
              Has guy ever held the elevator door for you.
              Has a guy ever pulled out a seat at the restaurant for you.
              Has a guy ever been conscious enough to let you walk in front of him.
              Has a guy ever gave up his seat on the bus for you.
              Has a guy ever given up his jacket to give to you while you were cold.
              Has a guy ever treated you like a lady

              Just curious

              • JustMe

                I need to leave do not like violence towards women!!

                BBL. Blood is boiling….

                Zero to 100 in 6 seconds…

      • mimi

        Wow….

        mountain girl seems to be the only one here on the same wavelength with me.

        First, let me say this, I condemn the behavior of those men. Why call someone at the bar a name just because they tried to negotiate a seat? If the person you were holding the seat for was just outside, then say that. Or simply say no and turn your back. If this had been me, I would have simply said “Whoa, ‘no’ is all you had to say!” The bartendar could have explained that I can ask, but I can’t force them to give up the seat.

        I tended bar for many years and have seen worse behavior, believe it or not. When alcohol is involved people act crazy. It’s no excuse, but it pays to be aware that if you come upon aggressive behavior, recognize that alcohol is only going to make the situation worse.

        Someone here mentioned that women should study self-defense. I agree. I studied karate. But let me tell you, any good sensei worth his/her salt is also going to teach the philosophy behind the art of defending yourself and one aspect is to know when to RETREAT.

        What part of some strange man calling you the C-word over a seat doesn’t scream, this guy has a HUGE PROBLEM, leave him alone? Or at the most, go to the manager, tell them about it and let management handle it. They’ll either ask the men to leave or separate everyone.

        It’s a minority opinion here, but the fact is the woman who poured water was WRONG! It is a physical act of aggression and although I think the man’s response was beyond the pale and WRONG as well, it comes under the concept of provocation. Being called a name does not carry the same weight.

        If women want the use of the C-word to be filed under the protection of hate crimes, then organize to get it included under the law. I’ll certainly join the fight. But remember, women call each other that name too. Just as AAs use the N-word with each other.

        I come from the “sticks and stones” school of thought. Words can never hurt me. When you work in a bar for years, you learn not to be thin-skinned.

        Few here want to accept that the women were equally as agressive as the men. Getting worked up over a seat? The underlying reality is that the women were also getting worked up over the fact that the men were not being chivalrous in the face of their femininity as well. Women still want men to offer them seats as well as other acts of gentlemanly behavior. Real men do adhere to the code. But there are an awful lot of men who don’t and there’s no law saying they have to. All you can do is ask politely/civilly for a seat and if it’s ‘No’, deal with it and move on. If your legs are tired, maybe a less crowded restaurant.

        I think it’s disgusting the way that man behaved. But the police told you the truth, under the law, he would not be arrested because the woman was the aggessor. Is it unfair? Before I could answer that question, I’d like to know why the woman felt compelled to be physically aggressive without being prepared to defend herself? And everyone should know that when you cross the boundary with physical action, anything goes.

  • Erasmus

    One important point, some of Hillary’s most fanatical supporters were/are men. I am one for example. Her sex was an irrelevance. It just seemed blindingly obvious to me that she was, by a mile, the best available candidate for POTUS.
    Ipso facto the tragic Hillary saga should not be used as an excuse for indiscriminate man- bashing. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t deny that misogyny played a part but many of her worse persecutors (Pelosi, Brazile etc.) were female.

    • notrees

      Women stabbing women in the back–now ain’t that a bitch. If the Hill can’t take the heat she should never have been in the kitchen. :) . Besides the Hill is about as irrelevant now as Monica Lewinski.

      • bob

        Monica Lewinsky is SOS?

        • notrees

          Hillary is Obama’s bitch?

        • beebop

          Notrees has nothing substantive to add to this thread. You might want to ignore it. I don’t ever like to call someone a troll … and in this case, it would be far too complimentary! :)

          • notrees

            diddybop has her imagined status to add to this thread. LOL! Go for it girl and good luck.

            • beebop

              Better than imagining that I have a three digit IQ like you do, huh …. bless your heart! ;)

      • Katmoon

        You are nothing more than a want to be instigator, and truly lacking in substance in your conversations. This is not a safe harbor for Hillary bashing, you are forewarned.

    • Margaret

      “indiscriminate man-bashing”? Are men so feeble that holding them accountable for their disrespectful and violent behavior will crush them? Should they be held to a lesser standard of personal responsibility than women? I think NOT.

      • Erasmus

        This is a pastiche of facile nonsequiturs and glib generalisations.

        • Margaret

          So you cannot refute my argument, I see.

          • Erasmus

            That wasn’t an argument. It was a disjointed tirade.

    • lorac

      I think the similarity we CAN agree on is that the Hillary and Palin bashers were all DEMS. My former party.

  • Strawberrybitch

    Wow. He’s just damned lucky a glass of water was all that he got on top of his head. I’m serious ladies. You need to be able to defend yourselves. Check into Krav Maga. That guy needs his scrotal sack torn off and stretched over his prominent sloping brow. Look if the cops won’t help, you need to be able to take care of yourselves. It’s sad it has to come to this.

    • wodiej

      I agree….

    • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

      I’ve taken Krav Maga and you would not use it to START a fight. It’s for self-defense, not going out and beating the crap out of someone before they lay a hand on you.

      • mimi

        I posted this above. The art of self defense is just that an art. There’s a whole philosophy behind it and it does not include agressive behavior like throwing a glass of water on someone’s head because you didn’t like the way they declined giving you a seat.

        I’m still trying to understand why these women couldn’t simply take ‘no’ for an answer. And why even after management interfered without success, why didn’t they simply take their business elsewhere.

        What point was proven?

        That you can get your ass kicked by someone sizeably larger than you after starting a fight? And now project this sense of heighten indignation aka being a ‘victim.’ And I’d tell a man the same thing. Don’t start a fight you can’t finish or at the very least make a good showing.

        If these guys weren’t civil or chivalrous enough to offer a seat, why on earth would you think they would NOT respond to a glass of water being thrown on their head?

        I’m all for throwing the water if you are prepared to back it up.

        Anybody NOT teaching their daughters the rules of engagement is doing them a disservice.

        Chivalry is an extinct code of behavior in the modern world. The men who still practise it are a dying breed. And truthfully, I’ve watched young mothers on buses not teaching their small sons how to behave in a chivalrous manner. This is behavior you teach while they are young. If you don’t, forgetaboutit!

  • Georgia

    Can you tell us what City this was in?

    • notrees

      YEAH! FIST CITY.

  • SonicNinjaKitty

    We all have encountered stupid people, and they come in both genders. We should just feel pity for them and move on. There are so many other doors of opportunity for our goodwill and focusing on the dopes will only prevent us from making positive impacts elsewhere. If we allow ourselves to only feel frustration, it will never end. Standing up for a principle is one thing–allowing its pursuit to hijack our own judgment is quite another.

    I think the economic turmoil and uncertainty are adding tremendously to peoples’ lack of empathy and restraint.

    • Margaret

      I disagree. I believe we need to honor our frustration and rage, for it will fuel action that will change the world

      • Ferd Berfle

        Indeed. In addition, those mouth-breathers were bullies. Ignoring them does no good.

        • SonicNinjaKitty

          I was referring to the part where she dumped water on his head. That is an assault, and it is illegal. I’m not in any way condoning the subsequent escalation that took place, but we have to be honest about who crossed the legal line first.

          I think the path of frustration and rage is a very slippery and dangerous one, and using these emotions as fuel will eat you up inside before you get a chance to effect any positive change. You may even end up effecting negative change. There are many other constructive paths. We have brains, people–come on, that’s really the only way to go.

          • Ferd Berfle

            That is an assault, and it is illegal.

            Whatever action is taken is up to the individual. Had I been there, I would have caused that dud to take a swing, thus enabling me to give him an opportunity to get a good look at the floor up close and personal. There are ways around such legal niceties that protect pigs like that oaf.

      • mimi

        Margaret,

        Fine.

        Then be prepared to defend yourself!

        Needing the law enforcement to defend you after you precipitate and provoke, honors nothing.

        But who decides which rage is valid?

        Is the person driving who becomes enraged over being cut off, valid?

        This was a pointless confrontation and handled poorly by the women from the moment the C-word was spoken.

        If the C-word sparked the women’s rage, then they should have physically attacked the men from the start.

        Get it on and may the best person win.

        But to try and validate escalating a fight over a seat at a bar as something honorable? Sorry, no.

        If you’ve reached the stage in life where you can’t stand at a bar and drink if it’s crowded, then the bar scene is no longer for you. Reserve a table.

        These pricks didn’t want to give up the seat. There’s no law saying they had to or be nice about it.

        Anyone needing to stand up on an honor priniciple about this, simply needs to be able to defend themselves. If you can’t, then you have no alternative but to choke down that rage or accept the consequences. If the woman who was beaten can stand up and say today, I’d do it again. Then good for her. I respect that.

        My point is that actions have consequences. Believe me, assholes like these guys will get theirs eventually, too.

        It’s just unfortunate that there’s no such thing as fast food karma.

    • mimi

      “Standing up for a principle is one thing–allowing its pursuit to hijack our own judgment is quite another.”

      This is very wise.

  • Margaret

    I wish I could say I was shocked, but I am not, and I do believe misogynists now have even more free rein based on the massive reinforcement of women hatred this election season. It is seen as sport, not as the crime that it is.

    How many humiliations we endure, every day. Just the other night I was at the Symphony with my fiancee. The elderly man seated next to me was in my space the whole evening, occassionally his hip rubbed against mine (gross). Just his way of letting me know, I have the power, I can do whatever I want to you. These constant violations of dignity are so enraging. Yet we are supposed to just smile, be nice and polite, while men fuck with us. I for one am tired of it.

    • bob

      Did you say anything? If not, then I’m sorry to say, that’s why he got away with it. Especially if you had your fiancee there to back you up. Again, call the usher or box office manager and have the gentleman kindly but firmly asked to leave for harassing you.

      • Margaret

        Typical blame the victim. Is he not responsible for his own behavior?

        • Margaret

          You are also assuming anyone would give a shit. Look what happened in that restaurant! If women were respected, it would be possible to call men out. But in a world that despises women, not so much.

          • bob

            Are you 100% sure he knew what he was doing was annoying you? There’ve been many times I’ve been on a train and didn’t know I was stepping on someone’s foot, etc. until told. I apologized, moved and the matter was settled.

            And second,you never know until you try. Whenever I pay for anything, I expect the management to be responsible for its patrons behavior.

            • Ferd Berfle

              That “man” was obviously either senile or a dirty old scumbucket. As a man, I find such actions objectionable. I was raised to be a gentleman and I expect the same of other men.

              • Snickers

                Margaret just mentioned behavior that is so part of life. I go to the gym, up the stairs to the exercise facility, a man or group of men are coming down and they hog the whole stairwell, expecting me to move aside. I’ve stopped doing so and now they move aside. On a plane, some sleazy man or some male uses up more than his space – easy to do since the seats are so much smaller now – and is all over my space. Hard to prove or even when it is pointed out, they apologize and soon the behavior is back. I, too, have sat in a movie theater or concert and have had some man rub feet with me or their hip touches me. I now put my coat between us, of if I have no coat, my purse, or whatever I have with me. Although, I will say, I don’t go out much any more except to restaurants. Having read Dr. Long’s article, I’m wondering about going to those now.

            • Margaret

              You obviously have no idea that men do this to women all the time. It is part of a culture that disrespects women. It is considered socially acceptable. To question it is to open oneself to ridicule, as was the case with segregation in the South.

              This is the conundrum we women are in every day of our lives. Something is offensive, but the society says it is ‘normal’. It is not so easily overcome as you suggest.

              All day long, on subways, etc. men touch women who they do not even know.

              • Peggy Sue

                I think you’re right, Margaret. It’s easy to say: well, why didn’t you call him out.

                I guarantee you, the old man would have denied it and made you the fool. It’s an old story. If you complain, you’re a whiny bitch. If you don’t, you get what you deserve. And you’re right–this sort of invasion of personal space and privacy happens all the time. And if you’re actually physically assaulted then the attitude is: what were you wearing, how short was the skirt, was the makeup provocative, yada, yada, yada. Again, the woman is demeaned and made to look the overly-sensitive fool.

                This election has opened a floodgate of female hate. When you permit the word cunt to be used in public, printed on t-shirts and made into a joke then anything goes. We don’t use the “N” word anymore. Reasonable people have agreed that’s out of bounds. But demeaning words for women are still used in casual conversation–bitch, hag, witch, the list goes on–and as long as they do, women can be publically humilated and treated as if they’re not entitled to common decency.

                Dr. Kate’s story is appalling. Okay a drink was thrown on the foul mouthed man. Good idea? No. But what does he do? Drags her by the hair? Talk about a metaphor of where we’ve landed.

                So, I sympathize. Calling a man out, creating a scene in a formal setting, a symphony, is a hell of a lot harder than anyone wants to admit.

                But maybe that’s what we have to start doing. And let the chips fall where they may.

                And forget it, I don’t want to hear he was old and didn’t know what he was doing. Anymore than I accept Dean’s mea culpa about the sexism during the primary or Halpren’s admission that the primary coverage was “biased.”

                As Ani said in an earlier post: the belated “sorrys” are way too late. Because the damage has been done. This isn’t a Battle of the Sexes. It’s a battle to be considered beyond the automatic lipservice that women are competent, equal human beings in their own right.

                It’s obvious that hasn’t happened yet in any large, meaningful way.

        • mimi

          Oh come on!

          Aren’t we even having this discussion because of the fact people won’t be responsible for their behavior and have to be called on it?

          But let me say another thing, elderly people often lose their sense of boundaries. I’ve noticed this with elderly women too.

          Another factor is the dirty old man reality. Elderly men who have not had contact with women often seize any available opportunity. Ask nurses about this.

          Why be a victim? Why is passivity always the immediate response? Why not turn to the elderly gent and say, Excuse me, but you’re practically in my seat. Or as someone recommended, let management handle it.

          To come of with that don’t blame the victim defense is unfair when you did have options other than sitting there seething, is something you need to deal with.

  • notrees

    If you want to play with the boys then you have to take the same hard knocks the boys take. LOL!

    • New Party

      Oh, we’ll play, dumbass. You won’t like the game.

  • Sycamore

    Finally, on AOL Mail homepage there is a link titled “Hillary Clinton Ineligible to be Secretary of State?” If you click for the full story it talks at length about Obama’s potential fraudulent Selective Service document and the questions surrounding his birth and eligibility. Hooray! Finally! A prominent MSM talking about this.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    The C word was unwarranted but pouring water on the guy’s head was extremely stupid. No chair is worth risking your life like that.

    BTW, in response to a commenter above, I have taken Krav Maga and it’s about self-defense – not offense.

    If you’d taken Krav Maga you would know not to throw water on the top of an aggressive man’s head in the first place. The first part of self-defense is being aware and knowing not to start a fight. That friend put all her friends in danger with that childish act. No, I’m not saying she deserved being beaten in the face, but she should have known not to start the fight in the first place.

  • johninca

    Having been raised to offer women my seat on a bus or subway, and to hold doors for them and things like that, I cannot even believe what I’m reading.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Nor can I.

    • mimi

      johninca,

      You hit the nail on the head! Having been raised to offer women seats.

      And who for the most part is responsible for doing the lion’s share of raising children especially when they are young?

      Women.

      But of course that’s blaming the victim.

      It couldn’t be possibly teaching the victim to use what power and influence they do have in changing things.

      The truth is many mothers dote on their sons to the point where they refuse to accept that one day they will be men and not adorable little boys forever. A lot of mothers don’t care how their sons treat women as long as they enjoy that special relationship with a male.

      I don’t buy into all of the victimization crap. Some of it is beyond our control. But there are areas where we can make a difference.

  • notrees

    If women want the roles men have been playing all these eons then women should not whine and bitch when they get treated like men. If you can’t take it don’t try to dish it out. adios ladies.

    • johninca

      I’ll be more than happy to risk drawing feminist ire by affirming that men and women do have different roles.

      Only it isn’t a man’s role to punch a woman in the face.

      • Jillie

        the only ‘role’ a person has is the one that he/she assigns himself/herself.

    • Margaret

      Nice try, but the women in question were NOT treated like men. They were treated like second-class citizens, that is, like women. If a man were called a nigger, do you think the police would say “that’s a part of a horse”?

      Guess Lynette has hit a nerve with misogynists.

      • mimi

        The policman who made that remark was out of line and the women should have taken his badge number and filed a complaint.

        He poured salt on the wound when he instead should have said, that the man was protected by the First Amendment and the C-word is not covered under the hate crime law. The policeman should have behaved in a professional manner.

        What he did was expose that he was a misogynist and thought the whole thing was amusing.

        But hey, policeman break the proper code of behavior all the time. Ask any black person. I’ve heard and seen worse. When it comes to asshole policeman, your only recourse is the Civilian Review Board. Sad but true, but cops are equal opportunity offenders.

    • TeakWoodKite

      Take your bling with ya. k notrees?

      Equality starts in the heart. Where is yours? A person, in this case, a woman is pummeled in a bar and that is what you have to say?

    • lorac

      We don’t want men’s “roles”, we want equality! And we want less testosterone setting the rules and bringing back civil behavior.

      If you conider this behavior okay even for GUYS, then you should move to Mad Max Dome. This type of behavior is not suitable for a presumably intelligent and cooperative and advanced species – whether it’s men towards men, or men towards women.

      Or women towards women, which totally makes me lose hope for our species.

  • bob

    No, the lesson here is: don’t get physical even if it’s with another woman. If you’re a patron, hit them where it hurts, in the pocketbook. Talk to the owner/corporate head and tell them you’re going to picket the place and sue them for being sexist. If women stop patronizing the place, then the business makes no money and closes. Other restaurants will get the message and not allow brutes like that in their places of business.

  • JM

    I previously read this on Dr. Long’s blog. It made me angry, and I wondered why no one else stepped in to help.

    As a male, I take exception to the introduction of Dr. Long’s article. It stereotypes men as having to be top dog. To the contrary, top dogs are those of us (male or female) who have the need and desire to lead, control, boss, have power over others, even if they don’t have any particular skill or talent to do so. Yes, I have met a couple of females who could easily fit into nasuS’s depiction of how men “need to be top dawg”. When it comes to power, it is not gender specific. Personally, I prefer to base my opinions on the individual, not on their gender.

    • Ferd Berfle

      After what I saw in terms of the blatant sexism this election cycle, I’m inclined to give her a bye in this instance. I can’t imagine how pissed off this election must have made women feel.

    • Margaret

      If power were not gender specific, Hillary Clinton would be president-elect. We all wish we lived in a world that based it’s opinions on the individual, not the gender. But we don’t live in that world. We live in a world where men hate and denigrate and rape and kill women, simply because they are female.

      • bob

        I know how you feel, but a little reference is in order. Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel? I think you’re referring to the fact that in America power is still gender specific.

        • Margaret

          This is not “how I feel” and no I am not referring to America. How terribly naive to believe that a country that has had a female leader is not sexist! Or that only America has a problem with misogyny, when we have a global epidemic of male violence against women. PLLLeease!

      • JM

        I should have written that sentence better. What I meant to write was that the desire for power is not based on gender. Not every male wants to be “top dawg”. This only appeals to a certain type of person.

        • Ferd Berfle

          I get get your drift and agree. I’m just furious at the uncivil manner (to put it mildly) in which women of all ages are being treated. The same goes with the treatment of gays and persons of other religious faiths, and so on.

      • JM

        We live in a world where men hate and denigrate and rape and kill women, simply because they are female- Margaret

        Although I think that I understand what you are trying to say, I just wish that you would use the word “some” in front of the word “men”. I don’t hate women, nor do I have a desire to rape or kill them.

        Also violence is about power, too. Men have hated, denigrated, killed, and even raped other men, too, and I doubt it had anything to do with their gender. If you say that it does have to do with gender, then are you not saying that women are vulnerable to attack from men because of some perceived weakness? If not, then what do you mean exactly?

        • Margaret

          I mean I live in a world where men hate, denigrate and kill women because they are female.

        • lorac

          Yeah,they (some)do it to children, too – anyone perceived as more vulnerable. Fathers and brothers even rape their own daughters/sisters, and it’s rising. I fear that any supposed respect for women as people, not objects, is waning.

          Lots and lots of screwed up families out there. WE’re going to have to get more fathers and brothers involved in childcare – so that they can – duh – “get it” that females are not objects. Until then, these dysfunctional families keep reproducing and creating more and more generations of males with pathology.

    • SonicNinjaKitty

      JM–Spoken like a true feminist. I was also wondering about the intro. I have often seen examples of male bashing by women and it is very difficult to start a fair discussion on these.

    • wodiej

      Some managers don’t want to control, they want to lead. There’s a difference.

  • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

    What sort of creep would call a woman the “C” word?

    http://www.drudge.com/archive/106692/author-mccain-called-wife-cunt-trollop

    This was one of the major reasons we PUMAs voted for McCain this year. He’s a gentleman, who knows how to treat a lady, but isn’t too politically-correct to tell the occasional inspirational joke about a woman’s pleasure at being raped by a gorilla in the street.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/15/mccain-finds-rape-hilarious/

    • JM

      You’re an asshole, but I am sure you know that already.

      • wodiej

        another example of Obama’s psychotic supporters.

      • HARP

        Why is comments like that always come from someone who is still introducing Mr Johnson to Mr Palm ?

        • Ferd Berfle

          OMG, I nearly spilled my coffee on my keyboard. LMAO

        • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

          Why are you so hateful of John McCain?

          PUMA Roar!

          • Ferd Berfle

            Why is it that a bag of hammers and a coal bucket have a more useful function in this world than you do, dimbulb?

            • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

              Ferd Berfie,

              Why are you so afraid of the PUMAs? You denigrate our intelligence like a typical obamabot hater.

              • Katmoon

                Not likely considering he is married to a PUMA.

                • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

                  Katmoon,

                  That’s how Obamabots operate. You think they haven’t had this planned since Obama was born in Kenya 47 years ago?

                  The roots of this conspiracy are deep. If Obama’s minions can infiltrate government departments in Hawaii to hide, destroy and forge Obama’s records, don’t you think it would be simplicity itself for an Obamabot like Ferd Berfie to marry a future PUMA in order to gain inside information?

                  How naive are you anyway? Haven’t you seen what’s been going on?

                  • Katmoon

                    bargal20, I swear on my eyeballs, Ferd of all people is no bot, I know I sit next to him everytime he blogs, he is a PUMA, as well. maybe you are not getting the picture, I am the one who is married to him, in real time, not a cyber way, and he is one of the greatest defenders of women I have ever known, and loves Senator Clinton, so you might be mistaken. Just Sayin!

                  • Katmoon

                    Oops, wait, I am getting radio transmission from teeth, BRB

              • Ferd Berfle

                You wouldn’t know a PUMA until it had you in its claws. You would then become the newest Darwin Award recipient, albeit posthumously.

                Watch who you poke, little Debbie.

                • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

                  Ferd Berfie,

                  Are you threatening me? Are you actually threatening a PUMA? There are 18 million of us! Do you have the testicular fortitude to take us all on?

                  Why don’t you run on back to your Obamaloon masters and tell them that this PUMA can’t be silenced.

                  PUMA roar!

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    Not only are you batshit crazy, you are also functionally illiterate. I’d hazard a guess that you are about 11, a scrawny boy with no friends, possessing a face full of pimples with only a pale hand for a friend and come here because you are lonely and we are the only ones who will respond to your pre-adolescent gibberish. Did I miss anything?

                    Oh…you look *really* cool with those high-water pants, beanie, propeller, plastic chin strap and bag of cheetos tucked under your arm.

                  • Katmoon

                    Seriously, this is for the moderator, I beg you to define civility, I am struggling here!

                    • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

                      I know, Katmoon. I agree with you 100%

                      This Ferd Berfie doesn’t seem to know the meaning of the word “civility”.

                      This is exactly what we PUMAs have had to deal with since the Obamaniac threw his illegitimate hat into the ring.

                      PUMA roar!

  • Mira

    If someone says tells me I can’t have a chair from their table because they’re keeping it for friends (whether it’s true or not) then so be it. I would leave it at that. If I then tried to take a chair from their table, which i think is impolite and unwise, I think I’d expect negativity.

    What this ‘agressive’ man said was abusive and vile. I’ve also heard women refer to men as a p—-. I don’t think (in my experience)women see how they disrespect men when they use the p word.

    I believe throwing water over a man is an agressive, stupid and dangerous thing to do, especially when this man has clearly shown his nature. I’m not surprised by the intensity of his response. I think there are few men that would smile and thank you for throwing water over them, except perhaps a saint!

  • NW Country

    This whole scenario is quite scary. One should never provoke someone who is openly hostile. And there are so many people that react to being challenged with hostility these days. By pouring water on the fool he was challenged and no woman was going to do that to him in public.

    Yes, the election was vile towards women but this type of reaction has been building for quite sometime. I feel the election just ripped the curtain down for all to see just how far we have gone with general disrespect for one another.

    • Hillary_for_president

      Easterners need to learn to mind their P’s and Q’s.
      Being boisterous and obnoxious (water over the head)is stupid. Easterners need a wake up call. Being bossy and ‘know-it-alls’ will defeat you. Learn some manners.

  • bob

    Council of Women World Leaders:Current
    Corazon Aquino President, The Philippines, 1986-92
    Michelle Bachelet President, Chile, 2006-present
    Gro Harlem Brundtland Prime Minister, Norway, 1981, 1986-89, and 1990-96
    Micheline Calmy-Rey President, Switzerland, 2007
    Suzanne Camelia-Romer Prime Minister, Netherlands Antilles, 1993, 1998-99
    Kim Campbell Prime Minister, Canada, 1993
    Violeta B. de Chamorro President, Nicaragua, 1990-96
    Tansu Çiller Prime Minister, Turkey, 1993-96
    Helen Clark Prime Minister, New Zealand, 1999-present
    Edith Cresson Prime Minister, France, 1991-92
    Luísa Dias Diogo Prime Minister, Mozambique, 2004-present
    Ruth Dreifuss President, Switzerland, 1999
    Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner President, Argentitna, 2007-present
    Vigdís Finnbogadóttir President, Iceland, 1980-96
    Pamela Gordon Premier, Bermuda, 1997-98
    Tarja Halonen President, Finland, 2000 – present
    Sheikh Hasina Prime Minister, Bangladesh, 1996–01
    Janet Jagan President, Guyana, 1997-99
    Emily de Jongh-Elhage Prime Minister, Netherlands Antilles, 2006-present
    Ellen Johnson Sirleaf President, Liberia, 2005-present
    Chandrika Kumaratunga President, Sri Lanka, 1994-05
    Maria Liberia-Peters Prime Minister, Netherlands Antilles, 1984-86, 1988-94
    Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo President, The Philippines, 2001-present
    Mary McAleese President, Ireland, 1997–present
    Sarah Connor President, Dalriada, 2001-2007
    Hannah Roth President, Dalriadan 2007-present
    Beatriz Merino Prime Minister, Peru, 2003
    Angela Merkel Chancellor, Germany, 2005-present
    Mireya Moscoso President, Panama, 1999-04
    Maria das Neves Prime Minster, São Tomé and Príncipe, 2002-04
    Kazimira Prunskienė Prime Minister, Lithuania, 1990-91
    Mary Robinson President, Ireland, 1990-97
    Jenny Shipley Prime Minister, New Zealand, 1997-99
    Portia Simpson Miller Prime Minister, Jamaica 2006-07
    Jennifer Meredith Smith Premier, Bermuda, 1998-03
    Hanna Suchocka Prime Minister, Poland, 1992-93
    Yulia Tymoshenko Prime Minister, Ukraine, 2005, 2007-present
    Vaira Vike-Freiberga President, Latvia, 1999-07
    Begum Khaleda Zia Prime Minister, Bangladesh, 1991-96 and 2001-06

    • Ferd Berfle

      And the United States is conspicuous in its absence, which makes your post effectively irrelevant.

      • bob

        See my response to Margaret. I pointed out to her that the problem with Hillary not being president isn’t a worldwide phenomenon. So it is relevant. Now, did you even know about the Council before I posted it?

        • Ferd Berfle

          See my response to Margaret. I pointed out to her that the problem with Hillary not being president isn’t a worldwide phenomenon.

          Mea culpa–I stand corrected

          Now, did you even know about the Council before I posted it?

          I am a political junkie and read a lot, particularly after what was done to both HRC and SP this election cycle. My wife keeps me on my toes, as well. I know quite a few things that might surprise you.

          • bob

            Nope, I read your posts. I’m not surprised by your breadth of knowledge and biting intellect; more often I’m impressed.

            • Ferd Berfle

              Those are very kind words, Bob. I thank you.

          • beebop

            I hope that you and your wife are raising both girls and boys who are respectful of the opposite sex.

            • Ferd Berfle

              Beebop:

              If you are asking me, my daughter and stepson (both adults now) are both aware of the need to respect ALL people, irrespective of their sex, color, religious faith, and so on. My wife, Katmoon and I made sure of that from day 1.

              Ferd

    • TeakWoodKite

      This list should take up most of a DVD’s worth of data, in historical terms, but it doesn’t.

      That needs to change. As a man, I find insecure men repugnant. You know the controlling ahole bent on plowing through the day leaving a foul wake. UG.

    • Margaret

      So if a woman is assaulted in any of those countries, it is any less of an assault than if it happens in the U.S.?

  • bob

    Angela Merkel has a PhD in quantum chemistry and speaks Russian fluently, by the way.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Quantum chemistry? That’s a truly difficult and cutting edge field in chemistry. I’m not surprised she didn’t like having what’s-his-name rubbing her shoulders with all the familiarity of a backwoods rube.

  • Hillary_for_president

    Next time, don’t ask anyone for their seat. This is not the same world we were brought up in. Times have changed.

    A great new video wishing Gov. Palin a great Thanksgiving
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5bju8ybvSs

    In case you missed it: Please vote Governor Sarah Palin for Time Magazine person of the year. Slide the rule to the right to a 10 and hit submit. She’s in 2nd place behind nObama.
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1857576_1857573,00.html

  • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

    Hillary_for_president,

    I voted 23 times for Sarah! Go Sarah! What sort of new powers will Sarah get if voted Time Person of the Year?

    Will she be able to shoot abortionists from a helicopter and then charge the abortionists’ clients for the bullets? I can only pray!

    Hillary Clinton needs to hear about our work! She’ll be so proud!

    PUMA roar!

    • Defcon 1

      This one is a snark troll pitifully trying to paint the blog in a bad light. Don’t feed it. This thread is full of their cliches such as Larry Sinclair, Whitey tape etc.

      • wodiej

        just another example of the psychos that support Obama

        • Hillary_for_president

          Yeah like what’s up with that? Last time I checked, this is America the land of the free. And that includes free thinking. If the Bots don’t agree then go away. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Talk about being rude. They need to go to charm school and learn some manners or STAY AWAY! It’s not acceptable to take over a thread by OBOT snark. The election is OVER!

          Saracuda 2012!

      • beebop

        Funny how the knuckle draggers are always around to bash women …. isn’t it?

        • Hillary_for_president

          Exactly! They act like cockroaches coming out of the woodwork. :lol:

        • Mira

          Did you miss the part of the story where the woman threw the water over the man’s head?

  • http://caffinequeen.wordpress.com/ caffinequeen

    look puring water over someones head is defnitely wrong but it does NOT gve the jerkthe right to punch her or drag her by the hair.

    Yes it is considered assault but so then is the punching. To bad no real men were there to grab thisjerk and hold him there. He should have assault charges against him.

    WTF is wrong with people these days? Is it ok to call someone a cunt? Not in my book. Not crimnal no but it should be treated just as seriously as then word or any other hatefull name calling.

    Should the woman have dumped water on the jerk? no but that is n excuse for what he dd and for the police not ding or caring anything about it.

    We have to stick up for ourselves and for those who have no one to look out for them. Otherwise we are doomed to be treated badly.

    CQ

    • SonicNinjaKitty

      True, he should have assault charges filed against him–she has the right to do that. Problem is, he would then definitely file assault charges against her. Is she ready to pay the price for what she did so she can get her justice? Apparently not.

  • hootnannie

    The level of discourse has been sinking in this society for at least three decades. As the lowest common denominator becomes acceptable as a subject for public discussion, then associated behavior also becomes tolerable. When vulgar-acting, ill-bred guests began appearing on daytime talk shows–whether the audience mocked or booed them–they still gained a level of legitimacy. Their very presence on these programs said that they were acceptable for public consumption. Whether this was just a symptom of a sinking morality or one of its many causes is beyond me.
    The incident described here is rather confusing to me. Are the abusive men being accused of misogyny, or can it be assumed that they would have reacted the same–or even worse–if other men had been involved? If women are to be treated as equals, then why should the men have treated them more gently or politely than they would other males?
    I’m not a very PC person, so my advice probably won’t go over well with many. But when I run into people who don’t seem like they have any breeding, I get away from them ASAP. I even stop doing business at places with rude clerks. When I realized that these men were discourteous, I wouldn’t have pushed them.

  • bargal20′s Mad Mom

    Little Missy, are you downstairs again in my liquor cabinet? And what are you doing on my computer you sodden little snip. How many times have I told you to stay off No Quarter and to stop bothering those nice folks. Lord help me, you never go to school; your only friends are UBM and Detractor and they’re only good to get you into more hot water. Speaking of hot water, you smell like a goat. Get your backside into the tub before your Father gets home. Don’t you think I have enough trouble without your 12 year-old shenanigans? Sakes.

    • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

      Typical Obamabot attempt to belittle a woman and PUMA by dismissing her opinions as childish. Why don’t you throw in “hysterical” while you’re at it, hater?

    • Hillary_for_president

      :lol: :lol: :lol:

      • Hillary_for_president

        PUMA? :lol: Tell me another on bar girl drunken skunk.

        • http://www.stopmyabortion.blogspot.com bargal20

          Hillary_for_president,

          It’s been three weeks and I still cry myself to sleep every night over the rise of the Fraudulent-Elect.

          I have been active in PUMA circles since the beginning. Where were you?

          Hillary Clinton wore special earrings that contained hidden sparkle signals during the primaries to show that she recognized my work for her.

          She wants me to continue her campaign forever.

          You’re either an Obamabot in disguise or you’re just jealous of my special relationship with Hillary.

          • Ferd Berfle

            =============Straightjacket Alert=============

            • Defcon 1

              This one smells like a sock puppet of one of the regular malcontents.

          • Seattle Moss

            Bar gal

            Hillary Clinton wore special earrings that contained hidden sparkle signals during the primaries to show that she recognized my work for her.

            I believe you!!

            Just like Obama wore a little red ball on his nose that lit up every time he lied to me.

            • Ferd Berfle

              I could try for a million years and not come up with one as good as your retort. LMAO.

              Hahahahaha

              • Seattle Moss

                Thanks Ferd.
                Did I read that katmoon is your wife..I’m working through her thoughtful comments on words.

                • Ferd Berfle

                  Yes, indeed, Katmoon is my wife. We love this site and often are on it together (dueling computers, side-by-side). She’s the thoughtful one. Me…I’m just a wag. But she puts up with me anyway.

                  • Seattle Moss

                    But she puts up with me anyway.

                    I know the feeling!!

  • Katmoon

    Considering it’s an aggressive word. It suggests violence, as do so many misogynistic terms. It could be regarded as ‘fighting speech’, which is not protected by law. I seriously doubt a judge would find the woman at fault for her reaction. Just as if anyone of any different race was called a pejorative term; there is an expectation of reaction from the “reasonable person”, to this type of verbal assault, that is what it is. It was not meant as a endearment, it was from a stranger, overreacting. I imagine this would be looked at as cause for the woman’s reaction.

    Let’s educate ourselves, for those who do not know the root meaning of the word, nor the country of origin; you may be surprised.

    Found in many ancient writings,
    “cunt” literally meant woman.
    “Cunt” is a derivative of Cunti or
    Kunda, an Oriental goddess of the universe.
    Cunina, a Roman goddess that
    protects cradled children, was inspired
    by the word “cunt.” Words sharing the
    root of “cunt” glorify women’s virtues
    and abilities. “Kind” and “kin” stem
    from “cunt,” as do “cunning,” “kent,”
    and “ken.” These words are equivalent
    to “knowledge, learning, insight, remembrance,
    and wisdom.”
    “Cunctipotent” is derived from what is
    known as powerful cunt-magic (Walker,
    1983, p. 197). The powers associated
    with women and the word “cunt” were
    possibly threatening. Reducing this
    word to an insult takes away the immense
    force of “cunt” and helps keep
    women meek and subservient.

    Source: http://oregonstate.edu/womenscenter/images/newsletter/newsletter_spring_05updated.pdf

    For Further reading, a great piece written for the HArvard Law Review:

    The Harvard Law Review Association.
    Harvard Law Review
    JANUARY, 1993
    106 Harv. L. Rev. 517
    LENGTH: 30708 words
    ARTICLE: STREET HARASSMENT AND THE INFORMAL GHETTOIZATION OF WOMEN.

    Source: http://pages.nyu.edu/~stc215/BowmanHLR.pdf

    In closing, if the “n” word is verbotten and considered hate speech, if the word “faggot” is also considered hate speech, as well as all the filthy colloqualisms used to denegrate a race, truly “CUNT”, is an inflammatory term and derogatory description in this instance. Unlike the word FUCK, which comes from common law, as originally an acronym for the following
    For, Unlawful, Carnal, Knowledge. That man should be grateful all she had was water as a weapon.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Bravo!

      I think this rather answers the “she shouldn’t have thrown the water on the shiftless oaf” argument nicely.

    • http://truthisgold.blogspot.com/ truthisgold

      Well said. I am rather surprised at the cavalier view that so many of the individuals involved in or consulted about this incident took. Truly, the use of that word constitutes verbal abuse and the individual who uttered it is lucky that the woman used her hand full of water instead of her foot full of shoe to get even. I find it hard to believe that a court would not fine such a person. I would urge all concerned to continue to try and find the perpetrators and press charges, be they civil or criminal.

  • HARP

    Women are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within.

  • http://truthisgold.blogspot.com/ truthisgold

    I am still shocked at this. While I feel blessed to never have known anyone who would do something like this, I feel ill that it could happen anywhere, to anyone.

  • Katmoon

    Similarly offense word in the same realm: Squaw

    Valerie Fast Horse, a council member with the Coeur d’Alene Tribe of Idaho, Montana and Washington, says the usual translation of “squaw” is a profane term for female genitalia. It’s so offensive in her tribe, she says, that members refer to it as “the ‘S’ word.”

    “They should translate the names into English and see how fast they get changed,” she says.

    The word originally meant “woman” but took on a derogatory meaning as white settlers used it to describe a promiscuous or unworthy woman, says University of Montana anthropology professor Neyooxet Greymorning.

    usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-04-29-namechange_N.htm

  • Katmoon

    One more thing, as this woman very well may have a civil case:

    Hate speech is a volatile issue that is markedly influenced by legal precedent and issues of protection under the First Amendment (Downey & Jennings, 1993). Defined as “words that are used as weapons to ambush, terrorize, wound, humiliate, and degrade” (Cowan, Resendez, Marshall, & Quist, 2002, p. 248) Hate speech (or antilocution, or fighting words) is speech that incites other people to hate a certain group in society defined by common characteristics (race, gender, religion etc.). It usually also incites to commit violence and discrimination based on hatred.
    exceptions that allow for limitations on free speech, including fighting words (words or actions intended to threaten or promote violence), commercial speech (you can’t lie about your product), defamation or libel, and obscenity, such as child pornography..

  • Hillary_for_president

    It takes two to tango. At the first sign of aggression, I would go the other way and not look back. That goes for a person of any gender.
    Albeit it’s demeaning to be reduced to a body part, but it serves no purpose to engage crazy and aggresive lame brains.

  • cynic

    Frustrated the women who had spoken to the manager, poured a glass of water on the head of the most aggressive of the guys.

    She’d already established that this guy was an aggressive jackass with disdain for her gender, right? One who had undoubtedly been drinking, his “relatively sober” appearance notwithstanding. So she pours water on his head? This makes about as much sense to me as attempting to determine the level of a gasoline tin by peering inside with a lit match.

  • Katmoon

    And not reacting at all has gotten us how far?

    • imustprotest

      Exactly! Bravo!

      • cynic

        I wasn’t suggesting that she shouldn’t have reacted; only that her reaction wasn’t a very smart or effective one. This is the sort of thing that can happen when anger takes control and you escalate a situation impulsively, rather than dealing with it rationally. You never know how a total stranger will react. A small but significant percentage of the population are potentially homicidal and one bar fight or one minor traffic altercation away from acting out. The outcome could have been far worse.

        Choose your battles and tactics carefully.

  • Katmoon

    Not seeing any form of reaction as what is called for, what if this was a man who had called another man a cunt? I wonder what that reaction would have been? I wonder if he would have walked away?

    • Galt

      Common sense should not be gender specific. The sticks and stones axiom applies. Always walk away. Does it really matter if some asshole calls us a name? No. Walk away. Same applies if a couple is together and some idiot calls the spouse a name. Both walk away.

      “Pride to heal easy. Broken teeth not.”–Yoda :shock:

      Well, actually Galt. :mrgreen:

  • islander

    It’s seems pretty obvious to me that in order to defend themselves if physically attacked, all women need to study Asian martial arts which require brains and discipline more than crude brawn.

    On the other hand, in most situations, I think it’s best to keep one’s distance from fools and degenerates.

    Throwing the water was an invitation to crude physical behavior. Not commendable, not recommended. You don’t poke rabid dogs with sticks or taunt wild boars. As for names, if you want to engage on that level, call him a dumb dickhead or whatever, but it won’t get you any respect.

    The point is don’t play the goonie boys games! Palin and Clinton set the best example by not playing on that lower level.

    Of course, some men will hate you for being impervious to their sickness and that’s when you might need the martial arts.

    There are a lot of really crude women out there looking for someone to pick on, too. Some women also will hate you for being strong. Treat them the same way — as sickly and untrustworthy, best kept at a distance.

    On the other hand, I guess each person needs to work out for herself how to view this kind of thing. I’m just saying this is how I got along in the world in my own 75 years.

  • ritamary

    I would have left the restaurant and never returned after the bartender refused to tell the men to let the women sit on the chairs the men were saving. And I agree that pouring water on that jerk was a poor idea. Life is too short to waste time on such miserable people.

  • Susan1968

    I agree with all the comments but I’d like to add another layer to what was said.

    I’m wondering about the age of these guys because I think there’s a generational issue at play.

    I’m in my early 50s and I’ve had run-ins with young men and women who seem to have an expectation that the should get their way with anyone of their parents’ age.

    It’s an attitude of entitlement and it’s really odd. I was taught to respect adults when I was a kid but not this generation.

    I’m wondering if these younger people (raised by my generation ironically) were conditioned to think they were “special,” and equal to their parents when growing up and, as a result, show no respect for others, especially those older than they are.

    I had two run-ins this year with young women in their 20s when out shopping in stores.

    Both of them were are on the wrong side of the situation.

    And both of them tried to intimidate me to get their way.

    Now I’ve been told all my life that when I’m angry — a silent cold anger — my green eyes get a “don’t f-ck with me, you’ll regret it” look that scares people off.

    I have no idea what I look like in these situations because there’s never a mirror around. But apparently it has scared a lot of folks. So both of these young ding-dongs backed down.

    But I had the distinct feeling that if I didn’t happen to have my assertive vibe going on both situations may have gotten physical.

    I’m wondering if it’s a combination of sexism and a generational problem compounding it.

  • Mira

    The man said he didn’t want to give the chair and then the woman took it anyway….the beginning of the incident.

    Apparently, he said the chair was for friends, and as the story was reported, he wasn’t abusive when he said this. If the woman hadn’t persisted in wanting the chair none of this would’ve happened.

    I believe it is the womans’s responsibility to take responsibility for the actions she took. Her response and her actions brought this negative experience upon herself, her friends and the customers in the restaruant.

  • Erasmus

    I deplore (as would 99%+ of men) the conduct of the individuals described in the opening article.
    However the tone of some of the postings here, with their pathologically blinkered, Andrea Dworkinesque misandritism, is beginning to disturbingly reveal to me how much the malignant wing of feminism has hopped on the Hillary bandwagon.

    • Erasmus

      Sorry, that should read ‘misandrism’.

    • beebop

      No. Sorry. The malignant wing of femininism voted for Barack 0bama. They are the women who deplore the violence and then go home and snuggle up against it. I would no more throw a glass of water on a guy like this then I would swat an africanized bee.