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ISI Goes Rogue

Pakistan’s president, Asif Ali Zardari, has his hands full and some daunting challenges in the coming weeks as evidence emerges that renegades inside Pakistan’s intelligence service (i.e., ISI) were the masterminds of this week’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai. The number and variety of the targets attacked is the first piece of circumstantial evidence pointing to the support of an intelligence service.

Reports from survivors of the siege at the Taj Mahal Hotel contain the disturbing news that staff in the hotel–existing employees–joined in with the attack. And the attackers clearly demonstrated a firsthand knowledge of the hotel. Something you would not get just by watching a video or reading a report. While it is possible that a group of Islamic extremists like the Lashkar banded together on their own to infiltrate personnel into these hotels, this smacks more of an organized intelligence organization. Getting your intelligence assets into an upscale hotel where they can report on the comings, goings, and doings of prominent business and political leaders is a coup. It is not the kind of thing that any Al Qaeda affiliated group has shown it can do.

It is important to emphasize that the Government of Pakistan is not sympathetic to or supportive of these rogue intelligence officers. To the contrary, the impetus for this attack may have been the move by President Zardari to disband the political wing of the ISI. If anything it is a reminder Zardari is not in a strong position and his grasp on power is both tenuous and fragile.

There are some troubling signs that Zardari’s efforts to reach out to India are faltering. After promising to dispatch the chief of ISI to India, the Government of Pakistan has reversed itself and is sending a lower level official. Sends the wrong signal in my view.

We are fortunate that U.S. Ambassador Anne Patterson is in place in Pakistan. She knows what the stakes are and is working furiously behind the scene to support Zardari’s efforts to take on the powers inside Pakistan who continue to see terrorism as a legitimate tool of national security policy.

There are moderate, responsible, not-sectarian leaders in Pakistan. Helping them surmount the Islamic radicals embedded in the intelligence service must be a priority for U.S. policy. The last thing we need now is to have Pakistan’s nuclear weapons fall under the control of radical Islamists. That is a fear, generally unspoken, that lurks in the back of the minds of U.S. officials wrestling with the complexities of Pakistan.

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  • R2D2

    I don’t discount ISI involvement, but I would like hard evidence. It’s in India’s benefit to point the finger at Pakistan and dismiss its own groups, and thereby dismiss it’s Kashmir problem. Pakistanis extremists will continue to exploit the situation because the Kashmiris will turn to those who help them, as it was done during the US Revolution by the French

  • mike

    http://www.poorrichardsalmanac.biz
    VIDEO: ELITE INDIAN COMMANDOS TALK ABOUT ACTION!
    ONLY 10 TERRORISTS!
    TRAINED BY PAK ISI!
    WATCH LIVE INDIAN TV!

  • http://www.thecomicproject.blogspot.com The Comic Project

    Larry, very thoughtful post. Pakistan, whether it was involved this time or not, has always managed to get away due to some excellent PR. It seemed to be doing so yesterday at a press conference in India. And bloggers from Pakistan are spreading the meme that it is “homegrown indian terrorism due to injustice on Muslims”. While we have f**ked up as Indians, we understand that and keep working on it.

    One Pakistani blogger tried to spread that on my blog and I responded at
    http://thecomicproject.blogspot.com/2008/11/mumbai-attacked-message-to-pakistani.html

    • pm317

      I read your blog and I agree with what you say here to that Pakistani blogger:

      # Stop obsessing about India. We have left your country in the dust in every respect because for all our mistakes, we kept inching forward. Go rebuild. You owe it to yourself.
      # If you are so concerned about the fate of Muslims in India, give them an offer to live in Pakistan and adopt them all. And I bet you this, there will be no takers. And guess what? you are not interested either. Stop pretending that you care about the Muslims in India.
      # Pressure your Government to hand over those who are roaming freely in Pakistan after committing atrocious acts on Indian soil. Stop harbouring terrorists who are killing all over the world.

      I also agree with you that calling this homegrown is ludicrous. The scale and sophistication and not to mention the destruction, all of which indicates big finances and groups like Lashkar and Al Queda. Some Muslims outside the US thought 9/11 was an internal/homegrown attack.

  • Justme

    Larry thankyou as always for your insight….

  • Justme

    If I remember correctly something was said on when they arrived at the port to stay quiet etc I think it was on Fox or could of been CNN

    I have not heard what the circumstances around the death of Hemant Karkare, the chief of Mumbai’s Anti-Terrorist Squad were. Which I REALLY curious about.

    These 3 men when alerted all jumped into the same car heading for the hospital that was under attack when they arrived around the back of the building 2 gun men ran out and shot all 3

    They were stating they should of all taken 3 different vehicles to move.

    • benny

      Karkare died on the first day of the attack. At that time, info was unclear. There was a report that certain murderers had entered the hotel, and were threatening people. He never knew that it was hard-core terrorists. As a basic cop, he went to the hotel relying on the belief that these were simple murderers, and not terrorists. Thats why he died on the very first night from terrorist bullets.

      • pm317

        Seems to me that Karkare and his cohorts underestimated the scale of this in their response. I feel deeply sad about that young NSG Major who died in the Taj too.

  • Justme

    wanted to post the BBC has a link stating

    A top Indian official says there is “no authentic information” suggesting UK citizens were involved in the Mumbai attacks.

    If u need to read link go to the BBC under UK on left

  • Justme

    posts are vanishing anyone else get that?

    • pm317

      Yea, my posts are getting caught in the spam filter — we may be using some objectionable words.

    • Cubs in 09

      Yes! :mad:

  • benny

    Oh s**t, Israel is very, very pi**ed off. Looks like they are planning to take on the base of the terrorists by themselves. Man, I gotta admire them.

    • Mary

      Sh*t is right, benny.

      If there is any nation that will claim the right to Bush’s pre-emption, it’s Israel.

      Duck and cover.

    • TexasMirth

      Israel is very, very pi**ed off. Looks like they are planning to take on the base of the terrorists by themselves. Man, I gotta admire them.

      Do you think the Israelis will do this before Bush leaves office? Between Bush and Obama, I’d definitely choose Bush.

      • benny

        They didnt like the murder of the rabbi. According to my info, that has really pi**ed them off. They plan to strike right back. According to them, no one attacks Israelis, and gets away with it. Hope this doesn’t become into a worse international incident. Yeah, if anything happens, it will be under Bush. definitely not under Obama.

        • Ferd Berfle

          Yeah, if anything happens, it will be under Bush. definitely not under Obama.

          That would be their best time, indeed. That being said, I do hope the Israelis will be judicious in their selection of targets.

  • http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/ ginaswo

    thank you for the update Larry. The reports from inside the hotel are conflicting, with some saying hotel staff were heroic in protecting the targeted victims, and some reports seeming to suggest an inside job of sorts with staff involved. God Bless the victims and those sorting it out..

    • pm317

      I am not reading that in the Indian newspapers about the hotel staff helping the terrorists. But there is no question they had either infiltrated the personnel or got critical logistical info or support prior to the attack. How they got that, the investigations have to reveal. My brother was mentioning how some of these 20 years olds could pose simply as some hotel management students at some univ. and talk to facilities management people, particularly the security and the housekeeping personnel, befriend low level personnel to gather enough info about the day to day operations — seems entirely possible. Think of the 9/11 hijackers trying to enlist in flying schools and such. The key is for people/personnel to be trained to recognize odd inquiries, be vigilant.

      • benny

        pm317, a few of the terrorists checked into the hotels a few days before the tragedy, and stocked up arms and ammunitions. The rest came from Karachi by boat, and they were guided by those who were already residing at the hotels.

        • pm317

          {I just wrote a long post in reply and lost it.}

          Benny, I was responding to Larry’s line about the hotel staff joining in on the attack — I don’t see that anywhere. You’re right. The coast guard was looking for unidentified or bearing some sort of Pakistan(?!) id and the terrorist hijacked an Indian trawler to get near the shore. They killed the crew except for one navigator who was also killed at the end.

          • TeakWoodKite

            Hey Pm317,

            Where did you see the report of;

            “the terrorist hijacked an Indian trawler to get near the shore.”

            ? Link.

            • pm317

              Well, try this: http://www.indianexpress.com/

              I don’t see that particular article on the main page anymore — it said something about they came from the sea in its title.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Wow. Some chilling accounts. But it sure sounds like it was well planned and thought out for some time, doesn’t it?

    Maybe there is another reason they chose not to send the head of the ISI to India. Current govt in Pakistan seemed genuine in their condemnation and future desires with India-to me. Of course, I’m the last to know there. But considering there is a rogue group within ISI, maybe that has something to do with it. Not to spread rumorws on anyone. Just maybe a more thought out reasoning? … I hope.

    Thanks for the info.

  • fiscalliberal

    ———————————————–
    “Agreement with re: to global cooperation for the defeat of a global terrorist network includes “the will of a global coalition to defeat them”.
    ————————————————
    A prime example of this is the Saudi subsidy of the Wahabi organization.

    I would add, what about the governments that in advertently stimulate the hate. The one that comes to mind is the Isreali settlement of the West Bank which is internationally recognized as a problem and the United States subsidizes

  • pm317

    Larry, thank you for these blogposts. I value your informed opinion and knowledge.

    Two things: Pakistan is a state sponsoring terrorism (not just in India but on the other side in Afghanistan) and has to be recognized as such.

    Hindus in India have to react to this in a measured way and not take it out on local Muslims. Unfortunately, politicians there are like anywhere else. They will try to foment the divide for getting votes. You will find Muslim districts everywhere serving as vote banks. Somehow Indian Muslims have to be brought into the mainstream.

    {On a side note sometimes, politicians are the worst breed creating more havoc than help. Some of the things my brother said about Hindu-Muslim situation mirrors with what went on in the US elections this time. Predominantly AA voting districts, trying to keep them clustered as vote banks for the Dems, even Obama said how AAs moving into the suburbs will cause problems for people like him. More evidence of how third world tactics were in play here in this election.}

    • Mary

      Wow…thanks for this insight: Pakistan is a state “sponsoring terrorism.”

      Scarey thought, really, that if enough evidence is found to prove this (not cooked up like our neocons), based on Bush policy of pre-emption (now discredited, I think), India might have just cause for a first strike, or their own version of “shock and awe.”

      Good grief, is all I can think of to say.

      Based on the deaths of Americans, our own FBI has a right to be involved in the investigation, right, Larry?

      Will the CIA’s 30 years of involvement with the ISI be a conflict of interest?

      Tangled web, and all that.

      • Justme

        Yes FBI & British Intelligence I heard were all going out to India

        • Mary

          Ok. Thanks, Justme. I hadn’t read that.

          Appreciate the info. :)

  • doonsbury

    rogue? like oliver north, with the blessings of the prez.

    • imustprotest

      We could ask Ollie about that but he’d probably say, “I cannot recall…” :)

      • benny

        or ‘present’. :)

  • Philip Henika

    No Quarter:

    Questions in the form of hypothesis:

    Suffice it to say, comments and actions of world leaders have not proceeded to downplay the Mumbai terrorism as a crime (1). The ‘crime’ hypothesis that might be worth testing suggests that if this downplay occurred than chances for cooperation between India and Pakistan might actually increase.
    However, the WP Post article below says just the opposite in many respects.

    President-elect Obama says: “These terrorists who targeted innocent civilians will not defeat India’s great democracy, nor shake the will of a global coalition to defeat them,” Obama said in a statement. “The United States must stand with India and all nations and people who are committed to destroying terrorist networks, and defeating their hate-filled ideology.”

    Agreement with re: to global cooperation for the defeat of a global terrorist network includes “the will of a global coalition to defeat them”. However, if the hypothesis stated above is correct then reference to “their their hate-filled ideology” gives terrorists more credit than they deserve.

    In lieu of Larry’s comments re: the ISI, it is also unfortunate that Pakistan is withdrawing its senior intelligence officer which is an indication of less cooperation when more cooperation is the test of the ‘crime’ hypothesis. Finally, if the military is required for help with an overwhelmed law enforcement then perhaps the “war footing” reference below also gives terrorists more credit than they deserve.

    (1)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/29/AR2008112900858.html?hpid=topnews

    Investigation Begins as Assault in Mumbai Ends
    Lone-Surviving Gunmen in Custody as Civilian Death Tolls Near 200
    By Emily Wax and Rama Lakshmi
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, November 29, 2008; 10:32 AM

  • Andy

    LJ:

    There are some troubling signs that Zardari’s efforts to reach out to India are faltering. After promising to dispatch the chief of ISI to India, the Government of Pakistan has reversed itself and is sending a lower level official. Sends the wrong signal in my view.

    Is the chief of ISI trustworthy? At least, does Zardari know the chief of ISI is not involved w/rogue wing of ISI? It’d be a great contradiction to send him to India otherwise.. (?)

    • benny

      Andy, the Pakistani head promised the Indian Prime minister that he would send the ISI chief to India. In a later statement, the pakistani military stated that there was no request from the civilian govt. to send the ISI chief to India. And a few hours later, the Pakistani govt. officially refused to send the ISI chief to India, and stated that they were sending a representative instead.

      I suspect that there are 2 power centers in Pakistan. The military and the civilian govt. The civilian govt. chickened out. Thats what it looks like.

      • pm317

        Benny, the two power centers has known to exist for a long time and the civilian govt when in existence is always secondary to the Pak military.

      • Andy

        Thanks benny; I didn’t know that.

        It seems from what you say that Zardani reversed under military pressure. Or that he has no control over ISI (including on its “chief”) at all?

        Still the question is why wouldn’t the military & chief of ISI not want to collaborate w/India’s investigation? It sounds suspicious… like whoever in the military pressure Zardani knows more than the rest about what happened and who was involved… (?).

        • benny

          Andy, among Indian security circles, it is well known that the ISI tacitly supports the Lashkar, the organisation responsible for the Mumbai terrorist attacks.

          And no, Zardari has no control over the military, and in extension, the ISI.

  • fiscalliberal

    Some how we need determine that competent heads are guiding the situation. We also need to be aware that others terrorists are not necessarily our terrorists. Yet maybe we can leverage the international situation to the point there is effective cooperation (aka interpole typ.

    Hopefully there are people in the CIA and National Security Council that can sort some of this out regarding our strategic interests. Some how the US public needs to be convinced that competent people are comming to the program to resolve this and then we have to be patient and vigialant. Hopefully moderate ex CIA people can get the microphones versus the neocon type.

    Given the sophistication of the India operation alluded to by Larry on this operation, one needs to wonder about what is going on here.

    • pm317

      We also need to be aware that others terrorists are not necessarily our terrorists.

      I don’t think this is the way to think about it. At some other point, you could probably have said Lashkar was India’s problem but not anymore — they just became everybody’s problem.

    • benny

      Terrorists are terrorists. There is no their terrorists, and our terrorists.

    • Deb

      Interesting view. First- please explain what you mean that “Others terrorists are not necessarily our terrorists” It might actually be simpler to tell us what terrorist organization supports the U.S.?

      Given the inter-connectedness of the world and the fact that India and Pakistan are both nuclear and allies of ours- and further- that Americans, Brits and Israelis were specifically targeted,it appears whoever is behind this attack are very much OUR terrorists. Would you agree?

      Secondly- definitions interest me. What exactly, is your definition of a neo-con?

      • Ferd Berfle

        What exactly, is your definition of a neo-con?

        What one is, I can’t say. But I do know they aren’t: they are neither new nor conservative.

      • JozefAL

        Deb, considering the fact that terrorists were operating in far more areas of the world than just India or the Middle East, the “others terrorists are not our terrorists” is a VERY accurate statement.
        Where was the US when London offices were being bombed by the IRA? When Madrid and Barcelona were targets of ETA? When the Rosse Brigate kidnapped and killed Aldo Moro? When Aum Shin Rikyoo released sarin gas in Tokyo? When Jewish terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in the 1940s in the cause of a Jewish homeland?
        The whole “global war on terrorism” has been EXCLUSIVELY an American “war” as though ONLY the US had ever been attacked. Hell, Dubya even invoked the NATO charter–something that not even our NATO allies, UK, Germany and Italy, had done when THEY were faced with terrorist groups.
        Until US interests were DIRECTLY attacked, the US paid little heed. Hell, I’ll go so far as to say it: Until 9/11, the US paid almost no attention to terrorist actions EVEN WHEN THEY TOOK PLACE ON U S SOIL. The early 1970s saw attacks on a Turkish consulate in LA, with the US taking no more official action than it would had an American citizen been mugged in London. Hell, the Klan used terrorist tactics against Blacks during the Civil Rights struggle (bombing churches and Black ministers’ homes) but, for nearly a decade, very little was really done. Until the Att’y General stepped in and turned the actions into “violations of civil rights”, absolutely nothing was done to hold the perpetrators accountable for their deeds.

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  • Mary

    I don’t know, Larry…..forasmuch as some pundits/politicians say Iran is our biggest concern in future years—and they are, of course—-it DOES seem that the stabilizing of Pakistan, and its lawless areas slipping into Afghanistan and around the world, will be the next president’s biggest challenge.

    But we all thank you for keeping us abreast of the information we should know to assess the situation OTHER than what the Village media has been told to tell us.

    I’m reading that the Georgian Ambassador to Russia is now admitting that Condi Rice and George Bush gave a quiet APPROVAL of Sashkavilli’s (sp?) aggression against S. Ossetia, and that the version Putin/Medvedev gave is really the true version.

    Won’t find that out in the WAPO or the NYTimes, will ya?

    Tell us the truth, Larry……does the CIA really have reps in all the press, placing the “version” they want the American people to believe?

    • jbjd

      I had ‘heard’ this before. Cite, please.

      • Mary

        Your request for cite was unclear, but I’ll assume it was about the Georgia/Russia war.

        BBC article titled “Saakashvili defends S. Ossetia War,” names Ambassador Erosi Kitsmarishvili (Georgian ambassador to Moscow) as admitting Georgia started the war and believed it had received Washington’s approval for its attack.

        This is Saakashvili’s own ambassador speaking.

  • JohnnyB

    Thanks Larry, for your insight.
    The ISI will not go quietly into the night.
    There are several factions there, and they
    have been running the country for years, using
    the government leaders as their tools.

    The whole area is a mess. The tiger has been let loose, and is running wild. The genie can not be put back into the bottle. Many years of conflict are ahead of us.

    How can this be resolved? What’s the plan, and by whom?

  • Deb

    This is a tenuous situation, no doubt. I wasn’t sure Pakistan would stay in one piece after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto last year, but somehow they managed.

    Yesterday I listened to an interview on one of the live feeds with a high-ranking Palestinian- maybe Gilani? and the reporter kept pressing him about allowing the Lashkar-e-Taiba to stay in place- Gilani hemmed and hawed- but at the same time- he sounded sincerely angry about the attack.

    Pakistan has a choice to make- but with so many disparate factions- will they come to a consensus about harboring terrorists?

    I read earlier one of the terrorists interrogated said there were 20 of them that came from Pakistan- but clearly there had to be more. He also said they were trained to get out of Mumbai after they completed the mission- said this wasn’t a suicide mission. Huh? How could they really think they were going to survive storming a city of millions?

    • TeakWoodKite

      Why not plan for egress?
      I am a layman with backyard mechanic skills when it comes to this stuff but that said,

      If you look at the sites involved it would appear the attackers / ammo came from the sea and a trawler (rust-bucket) was involved. Similar to the picket lines the thugs in Somalia have been running.

      The sat intel or CCTV for the port of Mumbai prior to these attacks will yield some clues. Port security anyone?

      The inside job and level of penetration will be looked at with a fine tooth comb, I am sure. What lessons will be learned?

      I have not heard what the circumstances around the death of Hemant Karkare, the chief of Mumbai’s Anti-Terrorist Squad were. Which I REALLY curious about.

      Three top police officials , including Mumbai Police Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare, were among the nine police officers killed as security forces took on terrorists in Mumbai in the early hours of Thursday, authorities said.Additional Police Commissioner Ashok Kamte, Mumbai Police ‘encounter specialist’ Vijay Salaskar were also killed in separate gun battles following a series of attacks in India’s financial capital, the officials said.

      LJ; how much of the command & control loss was due to intel ops?

      That takes a while and if that is the case this op must have started 3 – 6 months ago…and well under the radar…
      Why do I have the feeling that this “attack” was to distract and not the primary goal? I smell misdirection afoot and I am wondering what else is going on when the limited resources are dedicated to the forensics of this event.

      Thanks Mr.Johnson for your perspective on this.

      • Justme

        I have not heard what the circumstances around the death of Hemant Karkare, the chief of Mumbai’s Anti-Terrorist Squad were. Which I REALLY curious about.

        These 3 officials when alerted all jumped into the same car heading for the hospital that was under attack when they arrived around the back of the building 2 gun men ran out and shot all 3

        They were stating they should of all taken 3 different vehicles to move.

        • TeakWoodKite

          Just me I saw you comment down thread.

          Hard to say if the “two gun men” where just posted at the back or they had spotters and comm’s.

          Which I was REALLY curious about…

          errr. LOL

    • pm317

      They were planning to use the hostages to make their get away, at least that is what one of them captured is saying.

  • workingclass artist

    thanks Larry for the article…The Crusades continue…

  • Ferd Berfle

    Larry, could this be another example of the law of unintended consequences and US policy over the course of the last eight years? Could things have been done differently?

    • Mary

      It isn’t just US policy in the last 8 years.

      US policy literally USED the Pakistani ISI to provide weapons and training to the mujahadeen in Afghanistan to fight Russia—and that was under the Carter administration, secretly funded and encouraged by Brezinski. They saw it as an opportunity to sucker Russia into Afghanistan and drain financial and military assets in a 10 year war. It worked; the USSR went bankrupt.

      But our own government provided funds and training for those mujahadeen training camps (funded through Pakistan’s ISI), while Carter, and later Reagan, called these Islamists “freedom fighters.”

      Our policy USED the ISI as the “good guys” during certain decades, depending on who we were calling the “bad guys.”

      Unintended consequences, indeed.

      But not just the last 8 years.

      As I recall, on the day of our own 9-11 attacks, George Tenet was having breakfast with the leader of the Pakistani ISI. Planning what? Who knows?

      This is a monster our own policy helped create, for 30 years.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Unintended consequences, indeed.

        But not just the last 8 years

        This is a monster our own policy helped create, for 30 years.

        Well, if you want to get sharp with me over a simple question, then by all means, let’s get to it–let’s add Reagan who was so interested in the collapse of the Soviet Union at any cost that he forgot to consider the vacuum its downfall would leave behind.

        I’m not talking here about a policy from 30 years ago that we can do little about now. I AM, however, asking what could Bush have done after 9/11, with all the sympathy and support we received, to do something about Afghanistan/Pakistan. And yes, I am referring to the squandering of this support by invading a country that we had no business invading and by not finishing the job we set out to do in Afghanistan.

        • Mary

          If you re-read my post, you’ll find that I mentioned Reagan, with no approval implied.

          But it was actually Carter who began that secret ISI funding—how do you think the mujahadeen GOT those weapons that brought down Russian helicopters?

          And Carter’s NSA director was Brezinski, who was obsessed with the Soviet Union.

          Brezinski, by the way, is one of Barak Obama’s leading foreign policy advisors.

          No need to get huffy. The “unintended consequences” of our funding and supporting the Pakistani ISI as our “helpers” in the region has been going on since Jimmy Carter, thanks to Brezinski.

          Blaming George W. Bush and the last 8 years is a tad short-sighted.

          • pm317

            The fact that Brezinski has Obama’s ears is scary! Change, my foot.

          • sandi78

            If you haven’t already seen it, the movie Charlie Wilson’s War is all about how those weapons got to the mujahadeen.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Blaming George W. Bush and the last 8 years is a tad short-sighted.

            You need to go back a reread my original post. There was no blame–just a question. You started the “blame” nonsense.

            Further your blaming of Carter for Bush’s mistakes 30 years hence is an irrelevant non-sequitur.

            Moreover, that still doesn’t answer my original post, now does it? As I recall, it was about the last 8 years, the aftermath of 9/11, the failure to finish th job we started, and what we could have done differently, GIVEN ALL THE GOODWILL AND SYMPATHY WE HAD AFTER 9/11.

            You don’t have to lecture me about Carter or Brezinski, as I served in the military during the Ford and Carter administrations and know first-hand the sorts of things that went on, especially with the former Soviet Union and eastern bloc countries having been on a tactical site two miles from the former East German border.

            As a final note–it was addressed to Larry.

            • Mary

              Oh good Lord, Ferd.

              Read up on Carter and Brezinski.

              ISI has been doing our “dirty work” for 30 years.

              Larry woulda told ya the same thing.

              ISI probably has a huge portfolio recording all the “pranks” they’ve pulled on our behalf.

              The last 8years is just a continuation of same.

              Get a grip.

              • Ferd Berfle

                Look, missy, I don’t have to read about what I lived through. You really need to get a grip. I don’t think you were even alive when I served, now were you? And if you were, 30 years is a long time for you to continue to hold a grudge against Carter for a mistake that was all part of the Cold War, which started with Truman and continued uninterrupted through 1991 and Bush I.

                And yet you still didn’t answer my original question just like every other anal-retentive bot who is called on their BS.

                Try again to answer what I asked in the first place or just dry up. One or the other.

                • Mary

                  Missy?????

                  Take a nap, Ferd.

    • BernieO

      Ferdd, just talked to the Farkles and they say they haven’t heard from you in awhile. Is your hair still red?(How many people have a clue what this means? Probably no one under 50.)

  • FrenchNail

    Larry I have read your posts for months now and because of them I have become much more versed on the defense and intelligence matters. Thks.

    Thant said and may be this is utterly naive, but would the only solution be a nuclear disarment of both India and Pakistan?

    What do you think? Is that even on the table?

    • benny

      They are both nuclear capable states. So it isnt possible. If all world powers go in for nuclear disarmament, then it may be possible.

      • Morty

        And that will never be realistic, unfortunately.

        As mostly reasonable, psychologically healthy Westerners, we project the best of ourselves onto others, the best of our government, seeing things as we wish they were, other than how they really are, the stupidity, the utter lack of intellectual sophistication, the amateurism that comprises many other governments (ours included, but at least we have some balance).

        The only thing I would say is not all governments have smart people at the helm, if nuclear arms cannot be eliminated, their use can be made cost prohibitive, one way or another.

        BTW, given the networks, I really have a hard time thinking intelligence didn’t know about this attack, one way or the other.

    • Sandy

      It’s a chain, India wouldn’t do it because China has it. China wouldn’t give up because US has it. It’s not as easy as we think.

  • benny

    Larry, it was the Lashkar militants, but with the support of the ISI. The fact remains that the official pakistani govt. (not rogue elements) did not clamp down and eliminate the Lashkar because the these terrorists were inflicting wounds on India due to the Kashmir problem (a bone of contention between India and Pakistan).

    But now that they have targetted americans, brits and israelis, the pakistani govt. may be forced to clamp down and eliminate them. But I seriously doubt it. The reactions from Pakistan are not encouraging, and they seem more in the damage control mode. They seem to be protecting the lashkar again.

    The Lashkar is a well funded organisation and their training expertise is almost equivalent to their sister organisation, the Al-Qaida.

    Despite all the conciliatory noises emanating from Pakistan, the Indian govt. seems to be pissed off that the pakistani govt. is not sending across the ISI chief to New Delhi, although less than 24 hours earlier, the pakistani head promised the indian prime minister that he would do so. This smacks of a coverup all over again.