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The Mumbai Maritime Twist

When it comes to maritime ops, terrorists regardless of motive or backer have been pretty inept. Yes there was the hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro (and the subsequent murder of Leon Klinghoffer). And Hezbollah has made repeated attempts to attack Israel from the sea. More often than not these attacks failed.

The Mumbai attacks apparently started with the hijacking of a merchant ship that in turn became a mother ship for launching the attackers in zodiacs, which took them to shore where the attacks commenced. This is not a common tactic and has rarely been used with much success. Odds are that the hijacked ship had been surveilled prior to the execution of the attacks and was not just a random choice.

This means the people who carried out this op had some support in the port of Mumbai. I see this as further circumstantial proof of an ISI role. It would be natural for ISI to have intel assets in the Mumbai port.

Piracy not terrorism has been a bigger concern in the seas around India. So this operation is unique and worthy of concern. Previously only Israel has faced a sustained maritime threat. There is an excellent paper that provides a good summary of the various maritime ops that have been carried out against Israel. Here are some relevant paragraphs. Look familiar?

On June 24, 1974, the first of such attacks was perpetrated by three terrorists in Naharia. Having set sail from Lebanon, the team landed on the Naharia beach, seizing several hostages in a nearby apartment building. Before being killed in a gun battle with Israeli security forces, the terrorist succeeded in killing four and wounded eight more.[27] As an immediate response, the Israeli security forces and especially the navy, increased their security measures on the northern border to prevent further infiltration, by setting up not only a radar station and lookouts at Rosh Hanikra, but also introducing security zones in which no civilian shipping and swimming was allowed. Moreover, Israel’s navy increased the number of patrol boats stationed near the northern border to three. These security measures successfully prevented most of the attempts to cross directly from Lebanon into Israel.[28] The last successful attack (attempts still occur) that made use of this tactic, was the murder of the Haran Family in Naharia on the night of April 22, 23, 1979. Four terrorists from Abu Abbas’s Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), landed on the beach in a rubber boat killing a policeman and attacking an apartment building. Capturing a father and his four-year-old daughter, the terrorists killed both when the police arrived. Attempting to conceal her second daughter from the terrorists, the mother accidentally smothered her. Abu Abbas later stated that the attack was a protest against the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty.[29]

B. 1970th – The use of Mother Ships by Palestinian Terrorist Groups

Following the implementation of tougher security measures on Israel’s northern border, the Palestinian terrorist organization changed their tactics in order to circumvent these measures. The terrorist organizations resorted to a tactic already conceived in 1972 – the use of mother ships. The idea was to circumvent the heavily defended northern border and launch smaller attack dinghies from a mother ship outside Israeli territory. Once launched, these fast dinghies would travel east in Israel’s blind spot, in order to land “out of nowhere”, at Israel ‘s major metropolitan cities.

The first such attack occurred on March 5, 1975[30] when eight terrorists landed on the Tel Aviv beach and attacked the Savoy hotel. Barricading themselves together with thirteen hostages, the terrorists threatened that if the Israelis did not release 20 Palestinian prisoners within four hours, the hostages would be killed. In the morning, the Israeli commando unit Sayeret Matkal stormed the hotel, killing seven terrorists and capturing one. Five hostages were freed and eight were killed. Three soldiers were also killed. A few hours later, the mother ship which had transported the terrorists, was captured by the Israeli navy on its way to Cyprus. The timing of the terrorist attack was clearly aimed to coincide with the visit of the U.S. Secretary of State, Dr. Kissinger, who intended to promote a political settlement between Egypt and Israel. Panic-stricken, the PLO hoped that by carrying out a terrorist attack they would sabotage Dr. Kissinger’s mission.[31] Moreover, the attack was designed to kill Jews and non-Jews, in order to enhance Arafat’s prestige in the eyes of his supporters and coalition partners.[32] Established after the Yom Kippur war, the Fatah naval arm was linked operationally to its special reconnaissance and intelligence unit, lead by the head of Fatah’s military wing, Abu Jihad. Fatah’s naval arm underwent basic training, including diving instruction, in Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Syria. In mid-January, 1975, the group which was comprised of Hader Muhammed, Musa Juma El-Tallka, Muhammed El Masri, Muhammed Mashala, Ahmed Hamid, Ziad Talk El Zrir, Musa Awad and Abu El Lel, commenced training as a team at the Fatah training base at Duma. At the end of the month, the group was transferred to a training base of the naval arm in Latakiye, before being transferred in February to a Fatah base in southern Lebanon. Here the group received final instructions in the art of bargaining for human lives.[33] The group also received instructions on how to conduct the mission. According to the original plan, the group was to split up and operate as two separate units, barricading themselves together with the hostages. They would threaten to blow themselves up if their demands were not fulfilled. Furthermore, the group was given prepared propaganda that would further their aim in preventing a peaceful settlement between Egypt and Israel, by making claims which would incriminate Egypt, thus drawing Israel into a reprisal that would make Dr. Kissinger’s efforts worthless (if caught) or, if the mission was successful, the group would claim that it was a Fatah cell from the Israeli-held territories; thereby increasing Arafat’s prestige in these areas. In both cases the propaganda was to conceal the involvement of both Lebanon and Syria.[34] Reality, however, proved otherwise; not only was the operational execution of the plan insufficient, as the group stayed together, but the propaganda stories were discovered and the crew of the mother ship was taken prisoner. While the defense establishment swore that any terrorist penetrating Israel “should pay the full price for this savage and crazy method”[35], the general Israeli population was struck with anxiety, as the feeling prevailed that there was no place within Israel that would be safe from terrorist attacks. Moreover, the immediate result of the Savoy attack was that Israel’s hotel industry had many cancellations of bookings made by foreign guests and delegations such as the Vienna Burgtheater, which canceled its show which was to take place in Israel on March 13, 1975.

The Israel Defense Forces’ (IDF) response to the Savoy attack was to increase naval activities, including the use of missile boats along Israel’s Mediterranean and the Lebanese coasts. Moreover, the IDF used aircrafts to search the Mediterranean for suspicious ships and established coastal observation points, artillery batteries and used reconnaissance units to patrol the beaches in order to prevent further infiltrations from the west. While these security measures prevented some attempts by the Palestinian groups to copy the Savoy operation and led to the surrender of a speed boat team at the Tel Aviv Marina (September 1976) and the capture of mother ships such as the Ginan (March 1979) and Stephanie (March 1979), it did not prevent one of the major terrorist attacks in the history of the State of Israel.

The Coastal Road attack on March 11, 1978 killed a total of 37 Israelis and injured more then 70. Orchestrated by Abu Jihad (Fatah), thirteen terrorists set sail on March 8, 1978 from Tyre, Lebanon on board a mother ship. The plan was for the terrorists to land in two dinghies on the shores of Tel Aviv, taking hostages in order to free five imprisoned terrorists. However, as the captain of the mother ship was afraid of being caught by the Israeli navy approaching Israel, he made the terrorists disembark onto their smaller dinghies further away from the shore then planned. The Captain of the mother ship exploited the navigational ignorance of the terrorist group, in order to secure his own safety.[36] Furthermore, the stormy sea on that day complicated the navigation and caused the death of two of the terrorists. Eventually, eleven terrorists, led by Dalal al-Maghrabi,[37] landed on the Maagan Michael beach, killing six people whom they encountered on the way. After stopping two buses and herding the passengers together into one bus carrying over 70 hostages, most of them women and children, the terrorists headed south towards Tel Aviv, firing at passing cars.[38] Determined to prevent the bus from entering Tel Aviv, the police blocked the road just north of the city and succeeded in halting the vehicle. In the resulting gun battle between the police and terrorists the bus caught fire due to a terrorist grenade. Nine terrorists involved in the attack were killed and two captured. As the Israeli security forces did not know the fate of all the terrorists, for the first time since 1968, they imposed a curfew[39] over the population area between northern Tel Aviv and Nethanya, while thousands of troops and police searched for terrorists thought to be still at large. The curfew was called off the following evening, when it became clear that none had escaped.

Following the Coastal Road attack, Israel launched a wide scope of military actions, in order to prevent Palestinian terrorism from Lebanon.[40] On March 14, 1978, Israel launched Operation Litani. During the seven day offensive, the IDF first captured a belt of land approximately 10 kilometers deep with the aim of pushing Palestinian militant groups, particularly the PLO, away from the border with Israel. The operation was later expanded in order to occupy all the territory, with the exception of Tyre, up to the Litani River. However, despite the superiority of the IDF and the high casualties on both sides, the operation did not destroy the Palestinian terror infrastructure in Lebanon. Israel’s invasions into Lebanon also resulted in UN Resolution 425 and Resolution 426 calling for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon and the establishment of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) with the mandate to restore peace and sovereignty to Lebanon. As a result of the Litani operation, the terrorist groups were driven out of the immediate border area with Israel, making it more difficult for the terrorist organizations to infiltrate Israel by land. This increased the motivation to enhance the development and education of the terrorists in maritime terror tactics. [41]

You can read the complete paper here. It is worth your time.

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  • I’m a Linda too

    i don’t understand why go through the effort of seizing a ship to use as transpo to get in to Mumbai as a means of transportation. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Why risk your operation on something that isn’t necessary to your effort?

    • xax

      Take a ship that’s already scheduled to enter the port. That way there’s nothing suspicious. No random ships just sitting outside the border.

      • I’m a Linda too

        Thank you.

        …which also definitely confirms foreign individuals carrying out this mission, doesn’t it.

        • I’m a Linda too

          But too, this goes back to my original argument. Taking control, pirating a ship is not something that goes unnoticed and that risks their larger mission.

          Obvioutsly they knew it was pirated, right?

          • pm317

            Linda, read some of the article I linked down thread — gives you details how they might have done it.

            • I’m a Linda too

              OK, thank you.

    • pm317

      Indian Coast guard had tips and were looking for unidentified or some other Pak related vessels coming into shore. By using an Indian ship they arrived without raising red flags.

      • I’m a Linda too

        Thanks.

  • jbjd

    Whoa. I just visited the ICT web site. These people mean business. (And BO is so far out of his league… Larry, everyone else in the world knows this, too, huh.)

    • Ferd Berfle

      That One is in way over his head. And the info on Al Qaeda makes me madder than hell. We should have concentrated on that group.

    • I’m a Linda too

      Won’t we assured that O-shit! just figured out to call India today. Gives us the warm and fuzzies, huh?

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ NoQuarter

      Guess WHO does KNOW.

      HRC.

      You know she does. Bet Larry knows it too… I mean, really knows that she knows. Thank god. Let’s pray if there are attacks, she’s in on the TOP discussions … she’ll be able to steer those knuckleheads in the right directions.

  • Fredster

    Whoa. I just visited the ICT web site.

    Link please…

    • Ferd Berfle

      It’s at the end of the article, above.

    • jbjd

      Fredster, I never directly reference an article without also providing the link.

  • Concerned Citizen

    Open Letter to Larry Johnson:

    I know you read the comments on here LJ…hopefully you will take the time to read this letter.

    I am a long time reader and sometime commenter on NoQuarter. I came to this site a couple of years ago because I was tired of the vanilla spin being given to me by the MSM, and wanted to get the insights on the news of the day from a serious foreign policy expert.

    During the campaign, you stridently supported Hillary Clinton. I stopped coming here because I felt some of the commentary was becoming over the top, particularly the birth certificate and MO tape “controversies” and was clouding otherwise real (and legitimate) criticisms of Obama. When I came on here to voice my opinion, I was regularly shouted down by the other commenters. At one point I was banned, not for using profanity or demeaning anyone, but for simply for disagreeing with TexasDarlin’s post.

    Anyway, it was a tough primary season and things were said and done on all sides. The point of this letter is not to rehash old campaign arguments. I have been heartened by the tone and return to serious discourse on here the last couple of weeks. In that spirit, I hope you will consider doing the following:

    Please issue some kind of statement retracting the whitey tape story. The reasons are as follows:

    1. Most of your readers will understand that you were misled by your sources. Look, even the best reporters can be misled by their sources (see Bob Woodward; Dan Rather). I do not believe you have to say the tape does not exist. You don’t know and either does anyone else. But I think putting out a statement saying: “Hi, I’m Larry Johnson. As of today, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE of the whitey tape being in existence. I apologize to my readers for putting out this information without proper vetting. I am not a journalist by trade and trusted people who have been reliable sources in the past, and got burned. I promise to be more thorough before putting out information in the future” would suffice.
    Sure, some of the loonies and bloggers would jump on you. But it would also serve notice to the rest of us that NQ was ready to become a serious website again.

    2. Frankly until you refute the tape, it will hang around your neck and prevent (IMO) the return of this site into a serious forum where foreign and domestic policy issues can be discussed.

    3. Most importantly, Obama needs a serious opposition. Sites like NoQuarter could serve as serious voice to call him out when he makes misjudgments or flat-out lies. I loved your articles on John Brennan last week, and this information may have played a part in Brennan withdrawing his name from consideration for CIA director. I don’t want Obama to be treated with the same kid gloves Bush and Co. were treated with pre-Katrina. Larry, you were one of the brave voices in the wilderness calling the Bush Crime Family out on their misdeeds. But in order to be taken seriously, you have to put this whitey tape business behind you.

    Well, there it is. Thank you for allowing me to say my peace. I will continue to be a reader of NQ. It’s up to you if I and other like-minded people become NQ supporters (again).

    PS: BTW, thank you for the above article regarding the connection of piracy and the Mumbai incident.

    • Margaret

      We’re asked to post OT comments on Open Threads only.

    • pm317

      Nobody cares about the tape. It does not reflect badly on Larry. He was relaying what he learned and that is the end of it. I do believe there is a tape but like everything else in this election, Obama got a mighty pass and got selected and anointed. Who cares what you think of this site? There are enough of us who support Larry and other fine writers on this site.

    • stodgie

      it seems the only thing cc is interested in is spreading bo talking points.

    • benny

      You can come here and enjoy Larrys posts. Your obsession with the whitey tape is hilarious. There is nothing Larry has done that he has to apologise for. If that is the only way you can find this site credible, thats your loss.

      • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

        His “obsession”? You lot are the ones who still think it exists!

        :-D

        • mimi

          Actually UBM, it was the 0bama camp who confirmed the existence when they issued the following explanation:

          Why’d he?= whitey

          I’m of 2 minds about what the c.c. wrote above. On one level, I understand where he’s coming from. There are still numbers of trolls who come here to ruin serious discourse and use the ‘whitey tape’ as a tool. The idea of issuing a retraction, I guess, is to eliminate that possibility. It also gives the appearance that NQ and Larry, in particular, are big enough to admit an error in judgement.

          My other mind believes it’s a picky point.

          The election is over.

          Even if such a tape exists and it surfaces, 0bama is still the president and Michelle is the First Lady. Like it or not. All it would serve to do is to discredit/embarrass the wife of our president to many Americans, and stir up anger and resentment among the others who will believe the opposite and who support him.

          Americans already have enough problems and divisions. We don’t need salt scoured into our many wounds.

          The whole point of the tape during the Primary and election was to keep 0bama from being elected. Well, that horse is history.

          I’m over it and have moved on to the more pressing issues ahead of us. Besides, those in possession of the tape, did not want McCain elected and the Repubs did not want the WH.

          The only people who should care about this is 0bama and his campaign team who will want to be re-elected. And if 0bama has a tough time and the opposing Party re-groups and is ready to take the reigns back, if such a tape exists, I’m sure we’ll see it.

          But as a Hillary supporter, I could care less.

          He won. And nothing can change that.

    • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

      I was critical of the whitey tape coverage here and I was also very vocal in regards to the Bernie Mac brouhaha. (You might even find some articles on my blog about it.) Yet, I was never banned here for my disagreement. You have to be a pretty major a-hole to get banned here.

      I do not blame Larry for the whitey tape not surfacing, even though I was critical of the hype when the information was being posted here. I find the people who come here going on about the tape to either holding onto sour grapes or a few cards short of a full deck. Let’s move on, please.

    • I’m a Linda too

      Pretty funny demand from you. Because the “Whitey” tape of Michelle Obama wasn’t used by who ever had it means absolutely nothing for Larry to have to address.

      But, we appreciate you stoppig by to bring it back up. What will happen if it does get used, huh? Even though Larry’s sources said they most likely weren’t going to use it, I’m sure it may get in someone’s hands yet. AND, it sure fit with that prepared fake comments that was sent out by Obama, that she was saying “Why did he” not “Whitey”. LOL

      Looks like this will just be something haunting you until O-shit! leaves office. lol

      • imustprotest

        It is pretty funny isn’t it? They really are worried, I think you’re right. It’s better to keep the tape under lock and key and just let them get their shorts in knots worrying about it, LOL!

    • Judy L. NC

      Yes, you are definitely OFF TOPIC, Concerned Citizen.

      However, since you’ve already hijacked this thread, let ME offer this proof of the tape’s existence. The Obama campaign acknowledged the tape by issuing a damning statement that What Michelle REALLY said was, “why’d he?”

      Run along now.

  • Margaret

    Thanks for more great analysis Larry.

  • blogforce one

    Latest word I got is that only six terror operatives were seen landing in a zodiac with bags… Axxordind to India inte. there were a total of 10 operatives. That means in all probability there were 2 advance teams of 2 apiece who reserved rooms at the two hotels as command-control centers… Debka file is reporting the possibility of the operation being funded by an Indian Ex-Pat. living in Saudi Arabia.- This is clearly a collaberation between Laishke – Al Taiba – AL Qaeda . A very disturbing developmwnt indeed and no doubt known about in advance by Pakistani ISI. What will Obama and co do to counter this develoment???? your guess is as good as mine.

  • pm317

    Larry, I have been reading a bunch of articles on line at http://www.indianexpress.com/ and one of them talked about this very issue of help at Mumbai port. There is some kind of a gang leader, don who was responsible for the 1993 blasts/fires in Bombay and his name is Dawood (I left India a while ago, so have not kept up with it). He is in now Pakistan and Indian Govt has been trying to get Pakistan to extradite him to no avail for years now. It seems he and ISI and a henchman of his, a businessman in Bombay are in this together. They are now looking for that businessman in Bombay who may have provided the port support. BTW, beheaded body of the navigator of that trawler was found (I guess on the abandoned trawler. Something about the GPS loaded with a return route to Karachi and therefore, they were expected to make their way back.)

    {Thank you again for highlighting all the important details of this tragedy.}

  • justsome

    The above mentioned el Masri, along with hundreds of others of his ilk, was recently released by Israel in return for the bodies of a few dead Israelie soldiers. Over a decade ago I recall seeing one of the thugs from the Leon Klinghoffer (a U.S. citizen) murder sitting behind Arafat on tv being treated like a legit negotiator…I try not to think about these things. NQ’s attitude seems to ebb & flow with the season reguarding

  • justsome

    sorry, I see what’s happening. I’m inadvertently hitting “submit” when trying to open another window to correct my BAD spelling

  • Susan

    Larry,

    I am just waiting for you guys to blame the Mumbai attacks on Obama. I am sure your crowd of readers will find the link. Obama’s communist muslim long lost brother must have been involved.

    • Justme

      What a terrible thing to run through your mind Susan…..I wonder if this thought is just YOUR OWN..

      YOU SAID IT U OWN IT

      • Susan

        Your comment makes no sense.

        What is a terrible thing is to make fun of Obama through these Mumbai attacks, which UppityWoman does in her previous commentary/post titled: “President-Elect Obama prepares for unconditional talks with Mumbai terrorists”

        It amazes me the hatred for Obama on this site. I am not sure exactly what Obama has done to deserve the hate. He won an election fair and square. Give the guy a break!

        Real class act!

        Just like when Larry posted his thoughts before the election that Obama was faking that his grandmother was sick for political gain.

        Again class act!

        Discuss the issues, but these meaningless attacks just cheapen the site. Larry and this site loss any sense of credibility.

        • benny

          The statue of your messiah is calling out for worship. Now go and bow to obama. Its time for your daily prayer.

        • stodgie

          again, susan you make a total ass out of yourself. deal with that now! class act? you wouldn’t have a clue about class.

        • Justme

          makes complete sense…that you would consider stating what you did when such a tragedy has occurred… there is no consensus stating Obama was involved : YOUR WORDS ONLY KEEP THEM

        • Galt

          Hello Susan. You are labeling things as “hate” and a “terrible thing” based on your perspective that “He won an election fair and square.” Because that is your perspective, you will find it impossible to understand being in the shoes of the authors here and will continue to be amazed. What I just wrote is based on taking your words on face value. You could also not believe the election was won fairly, but do not care because you “won” and are looking for a way to slam this blog and thought you found it. I hope this is not the case but I can’t read your mind.

          Although I would not necessarily express myself as Uppity Woman, nasuS or Larry, I share many of their perspectives and have come to similar conclusions such as I find this election was the not fair and square at all. I understand the use of extreme sarcasm as a form of expression. I find freedom of expression not only highly credible but essential in a society based on liberty. This is an interesting libertarian perspective, notably what sought me to search for it, the hateful things said by the Founders about King George:

          All the evil, wicked, mean and nasty things that Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Thomas Payne and others wrote about King George III were directed at a “tyrant” who taxed the colonists at the excruciating rate of about three percent. Moreover, there was no Royal Department of Education, Environmental Protection Ministry or war on drugs in those days.

          If only we had more “hateful” and “terrible” things being said by blogs with “no credibility” America would be much better off as a country today. You are entitled to your opinion, even though I find it dangerous that so many people refuse to see this election was for all intensive purposes made in a smoke filled backroom deal with the most alarming aspect of the media acting as propagandist cheerleaders. You can also find the extreme sarcasm disturbing and counterproductive even though the basis for it is the view your choice in a leader in my opinion is not up to the task of leading our nation.

          I bet you thought your comment was a slam dunk game over. But just maybe you have just learned something from this “hateful” blog with “no credibility.” I’m through with the “election” but thought I would add my 2 cents to your thoughts. Best of luck, you “won,” and with control of the legislative by your party if things go awry you can only blame your faith in people many of us on this blog have lost all faith in at all. The blog will continue to speak out as it deems fit as long as that is still allowed no matter what its critics say in their opinion are “meaningless attacks.”

          • tampagurl

            My sentiments exactly, very well said Galt.

            • Mary

              Mine too, Galt.

              Those of us reading Larry’s very informed posts about these topics just pass on by when we see Susan post stupid sh*t.

              She doesn’t even KNOW how irrelevant she is.

              Just skip her, folks.

        • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com csuzeq

          We’re just trying to do the job others won’t. We’re keeping Obama in check. I do make fun of Obama because to me there is alot to make fun of. I would think that people like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert could have a field day with That One, but every time I have watched they can’t seem to find any humor in him. They claim there is nothing to use, he is flawless. Ok, that makes me laugh, but unfortunately they are being serious. They are supposed to be a fake news duo, but if they can’t find things about Obama to poke fun at???? They better just retire. I could write their whole show about how stupid, funny Obama is. Someone has to do their job if they won’t.

        • Margaret

          I don’t think any of us on this site ever wanted to have any credibility with the likes of you

        • Margaret

          Uppity Woman is so fabulous, you are not even fit to shine her shoes. She is also brilliant and does not suffer fools. And, she has a great sense of wit, which clearly you are lacking. And by the way, we’ll never stop mocking Obama, how could we, with such an easy target that just keeps right on giving?

        • ritamary

          No, actually Obama did not win the election fair and square. So don’t come to this website with your lies.

          I personally do not view Obama as a leftist, a terrorist, a socialist, etc. I view him as an opportunist who is totally unprepared for the presidency. One thing I do believe he and his followers have in common with terrorists is the belief that the ends justify the means.

        • Brendy

          “It amazes me the hatred for Obama on this site. I am not sure exactly what Obama has done to deserve the hate. He won an election fair and square.”
          ***

          There was no hatred shown for Hillary or Sarah Palin, was there? Two women from different parties but hated by ONE group – the group of Obama backers. Yeah, he won the election ‘fair and square’! snicker, snicker…

          • Bettie

            The troll is a lightweight kook, pay no mind.

            No one else does.

    • pm317

      There is a huge tragedy affecting all of us going on on the other side of the Atlantic and this is all you can come up with? Shame on you! I did not vote for Obama and I have my doubts about his readiness to tackle things like the ones going on in Mumbai but don’t trivialize a serious issue.

      • Susan

        Who is trivalizing the issue. In fact, quite the opposite. Uppitywoman’s comment on this site trivalizes the issue.

        • stodgie

          susan, why don’t you direct your “comments” TO uppity. i think you are afraid of her hence you are hiding over here on this thread. really pathetic!

          • Susan

            I have directed my comments both to Larry, as it is his site, and also to uppity on her comment. If Larry wants to increase the eyeballs and advertising dollars he should stop the useless Obama attacks…. it just turns people off…

            • imustprotest

              Well it’s sure keeping you here all day, unfortunately.

            • Justme

              like your turning people off your like a dog with a bone drop it for goodness sake!!

              You keep chewing over the same point!

              either that or you enjoy listening to yourself…

            • stodgie

              again susan, this thread is not about YOU OR OBAMA. it is about the tragic situation in india. you remind me of some rather drunken dinner guests i have seen who make rude out of the way remarks at dinner parties interrupting some very good converations. you have terrible table manners.

              • imustprotest

                yep, narcissists do that. I know Obama is a narcissist, looks like this “susan” might be a narcissist too.

            • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com csuzeq

              I am not turned off by it. should we take a count?

              one.

              • imustprotest

                You mean turned off by bringing to light the ridiculousness that is…..O’bamasoretorobarry? Nope.

                • tampagurl

                  csuzeq was replying to this:

                  Comment by Susan | 2008-11-29 20:29:47 stop the useless Obama attacks…. it just turns people off…

              • stodgie

                now try two, then three! keep counting, you’ll get there.

            • ritamary

              I never thought Larry was looking for advertising dollars. If you don’t like this website go somewhere else. Anyone who doesn’t like it is not forced to come here.

            • Ferd Berfle

              I have directed my comments both to Larry, as it is his site, and also to uppity on her comment. If Larry wants to increase the eyeballs and advertising dollars he should stop the useless Obama attacks…. it just turns people off…

              Well, clairvoyant one, if your opinion were true, why are there so many regulars who come here?

              And tell me, what exactly is wrong with criticism of That One, aside from the fact that it obviously hurts your precious feelings? The attacks on That One do not turn me off–in fact I agree with almost every one of them.

              No, you are the only one who has a problem because you just can’t stand it that there are people out here who don’t think the way you, don’t get all gushy over the polyethylene provocateur, don’t care about what you think, and would be quite happy if you just went silently away.

              The truth of the matter is that you care only because we don’t.

              • Galt

                I laugh at the faux concern for Larry’s wallet. :shock:

                • Ferd Berfle

                  Evening Galt. I, too, am touched by the altruistic concern. What a troll, huh?

                • imustprotest

                  Right Galt! Just a phoney as their faux president select sitting in his chair in the office of the president Select!

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    What a monumental egotist That One is. Next thing you know he’ll be lounging around in a toga, eating having grapes fed to him. Yech.

                    This is going to prove to be a really long four years, I’m afraid.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Typo: Next thing you know he’ll be lounging around in a toga, having grapes fed to him.

            • KathyNeocon

              If Larry wants to increase the eyeballs and advertising dollars he should stop the useless Obama attacks…. it just turns people off…

              Not me–it’s why I come here. 8) I’m sure I’m not the only one.

          • socalannie

            Uppity was making fun of Obama, who is a pretentious buffoon. She was not making fun of the tragedy, and indeed, was one of the first bloggers (of the list I frequent) to have serious & comprehensive reviews of what had happened. I learned more about the Mumbai terrorist attack from reading Uppity Woman (& NoQuarter) than my mother & sister did from watching msnbc. If you don’t like the posts or comments here, feel free to leave. We won’t miss you.

    • stodgie

      my my susan what an insanely stupid, inept and inappropriate comment.

  • zanne

    Susan, I was going to remark back. But, your comment wasn’t worth it. Cheers.

    • Justme

      Susan you need to stop accusing Obama of things before he’s in office… he will not be happy with you!

      Off to the reprogramme camp for you!

      • Susan

        Just waiting for the communist reprogramming gulags to be setup once Obama comes into office.

        • stodgie

          yawn, susan you are a very bad troll. and boring!

          • http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

            But she seems to be getting the job done. Funny how that works, eh?

            • WildChild

              waiting isn’t very productive. That must be why so little reprogramming is going on. Perhaps she hasn’t figured out the remote.

            • Ferd Berfle

              You would consider that “getting the job done”. Funny how that doesn’t work.

              Go away useless.

        • Justme

          you have to be the most depressing person to live with nothing like seeing the good times to come..
          watch it you may be fist in line

        • ritamary

          Why don’t you do something useful. Go find out when the free gasoline and mortgage payments start.

  • justsome

    Also important to consider is there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan & the goal is to stop the terrorists without inadvertently radicalizing India’s Muslim population, while also containing Hindu extremists. Not an easy task, especially in a democratic form of government where more often than not whoever breeds the most wins, even if the native population keeps partitioning itself into an ever smaller land mass. I admit I don’t understand the “tribal” element in India or Pakistan. Are these people the same ethnicity just different religions?

    • Galt

      Your comment reminded me of something. We witness tribalism everywhere including our own country [emphasis mine]:

      trib⋅al⋅ism
         /ˈtraɪbəˌlɪzəm/ [trahy-buh-liz-uhm]
      –noun
      1. the customs and beliefs of tribal life and society.
      2. strong loyalty to one’s own tribe, party, or group.
      Origin:
      1885–90; tribal + -ism

      • rw

        But tribalism as used for identity purpose, be it in ethnicity, party, or group, is fluid and flexible, vs tribalism that is linked to and rooted in the sense of self that leads “clans” to commit atrocities outside understood rules of engagement.

        There is too much emphasis on the right of the “individual” in western civilization that precludes it to tribalism in it’s “pure” form…imo.

        • Ferd Berfle

          But tribalism as used for identity purpose, be it in ethnicity, party, or group, is fluid and flexible,

          Examples, please as apposed to the other, virulent form.

          • rw

            Probably the easiest is political party affiliation…just this election life long Democrats voted for Hillary and switched allegiance and voted Republican in the general.

            • Ferd Berfle

              OK, I’m starting to get a sense of what you’re saying. It is an interesting concept, which I want to ponder further and the political analogy will make it a bit easier to analyze.

    • pm317

      The tribal element is like your different denominations in Christianity — they are not that different. The differences are small. The larger classifications are based on language and regions and within a region and language, there are different sects/flavors within Hindu (which kind of repeat themselves in each language group) and perhaps Muslim too (like Shia and Sunni — I don’t know what dominant flavor is).

  • oowawa

    I am just waiting for you guys

    I didn’t realize we were so much fun. What an odd pastime!

    • Susan

      Larry had a lot of good information on this site when he was focused on the Iraq war and his CIA knowledge. It is interesting to come to this site and see what he has to say on these issues.

      However, since the site just became a site about bashing Obama its credibility has been shot.

      His post here on Mumbai is very good.

      I would love to keep coming to this site to read the good stuff on international security, which is Larry’s expertise, but it is hard to get past all the Obama bashing. I could care less about Obama. I did not vote for him, but some of the bashing is just a bit silly at this point and frankly offensive.

      No odd pastime at all. Just trying to make a point about the ridiculousness of all this Obama bashing on this site. Who cares at this point? I hope he does a good job for the sake of this country. And I hope McCain lends a hand.

      • imustprotest

        Sure, that’s what all the Obamabot thugs say….get in line, take a number, whatever bot.

      • Strawberrybitch

        Obama is in way over his head and he knows it. Just look at all the old Clintonites he has advising him and even more that are being appointed to his cabinet…don’t even get me started on his Bush holdovers. He should step down for the good of the world. Hillary should be our POTUS and even you know it but are too much of a coward to admit you are wrong. Please leave and never come back.

        • rw

          “Obama is in way over his head and he knows it.”

          I think the world knows it. It is so painfully obvious each time he answers question in those press statements he is habitually doing now..I think those press statements and the taking of 3 to 4 questions are practice runs for him, come January he is alone and he seems oh so none presidential.

          • Lisa

            I am not sure the whole world thinks Obama is in over his head. In fact, the whole world is very excited about Obama being the next president. He has completely changed the discussion about the U.S.

            200,000 people did not show up in Berlin for no reason.

            Obama seems to be doing a really good job and he is not even president yet.

            He has attempted to provide some leadership on the economy and rolled out an economic team to try and provide some confidence.

            On foreign affairs he has rolled out a solid team.

            He has so far gotten bi-partisan support for his economic and foreign affairs picks. Most agree that he is managing the transition very well. And Bush is nowhere to be seen during this particularly challenging period.

            Quite the contrary I think the planet (ex-this website) has a lot of confidence in Obama.

        • Lisa

          The fact of the matter is, if you want people with experience and that know there way around washington to get things done, you have to consider people that were involved in govt the last time the democrats were in power. It is almost unavoidable that some of the people that are democrats that you are going to pick are going to have experience working in the Clinton adminstration. What is wrong with that? It is really smart to mix the new with the old with some people on the other side of the aisle.

      • Elizabeth

        Ignore what isn’t of personal interest and let the admins worry about the credibility of their site. Don’t like it, leave or read more selectively.

        What could be so hard about that ? Is this an addiction ? You’re only making yourself look weak and ignorant.

  • justsomeone

    Apparently there’s 645 different tribal groups in India…forget it, I’m overwhelmed & lots in Pakistan. It’s like the Balkans on steroids.

    • benny

      lol. good comparison

    • pm317

      Yes, you have to wonder how it is held together for all these centuries..Some used the division to conquer, most recent being the British. But there were also very uplifting instances in its history like Akbar, a Muslim ruler adopting Hindu reforms in his own governing — he even had built temples for his Hindu consorts.

  • stodgie

    there were no comments about obama or the whitey tape in this thread till these two self righteous posters tried to change the topic with their rude sermonizing.

  • justsomeone

    Susan, don’t lump us all together! If you read the comments on Uppity’s thread I defended Obama’s statement.

    • Strawberrybitch

      You can leave too.

  • benny

    Piracy of the coast of Somalia, the Mumbai maritime twist etc. Reminds me when the Brits used to be the most powerful navy ( a long, long time ago). :)

    • rw

      70 years ago is not that long, and it is still the strongest navy in Europe and second strongest in NATO.

  • justsomeone

    pm317, when “the pure ones” aka Pakis broke off from India to form another Muslim country how did that line up tribeally? or didn’t it?

    • Strawberrybitch

      WHAT? Flunk English 101, did we?

      • pm317

        Take it easy. He is alright.

    • pm317

      justsomeone, it is not so “tribal.” There are different groups based on languages. Within each language group, it is the same social structure. Among Hindus, it is brahmins, warriors, merchants, and dalits and within each of these groups they worship numerous different Gods and Goddesses. I don’t know the different groups within Muslims. Many of them were converted to Islam during the Mogul invasion, after the 1300s and generally these were not steadfast Muslims like you see in the Middle East. But the British did use the divide and conquer and fomented the Hindu-Muslim difference and the partition was one of their legacies. The Muslim guy who wanted India to be partitioned, Mohammad Ali Jinnah (in 1947) was not even a devout Muslim. But he wanted a separate state for Muslims and wanted to secede. But India (and Gandhi) did not want that. Some Hindus wanted Hindu only state and one of them Killed Gandhi. India is a secular state by constitution. But recently with fundamentalists everywhere, even Hindu extremism has risen its ugly head but most in India understand that they do have to remain secular and offer minority protection.

  • justsomeone

    Strawberrybitch, if that comment was for me: No, you can leave I was here about a yr & 1/2 before you, probably while you were still blowin’ smoke at Kos or Huffy Post

    • Strawberrybitch

      Um, you moron, I’ve been a fan of Larry’s since the Plame days when Larry barely had 10-15 comments per diary. Larry knows I adore him. I’ve battled Bushbots who wanted to destroy him before you even knew No quarter existed. And I’ve been blogging as the Bitch for years. A simple google search can confirm this. Eat me neophite.

      • HARP

        Go Girl !!

        woot woot

  • HARP

    Susan…..Sarcasm is just one more service we offer.

  • justsomeone

    T R I B A L —-it was the damn ly that messed me up—shut up & pack my luggage

  • benny

    I’ve been asked to star in Pirates of the Caribbean – the never ending pirate movies. You guys think I should take it up? :)

    • Galt

      I don’t know but I’d like to direct a film called Pirates of the Election. :shock: Actually I’m thinking of doing something kinda like this but as humor. :mrgreen: I think many would fine it cathartic.

      • benny

        It would be hilarious to see howard dean or donna brazile in a pirate costume. lol

        • Baba Rum Raisin

          Check with PanaVision to be certain that that have a lens with a WIDE enough field of view to capture Brazile and her behind.

      • MrMike

        I am the captain of the DNC.
        And a very good captain is he.

  • benny

    Come on guys, lighten up a bit. Dont let a obot come in here and disrupt our harmony. Thats their job. So ease up, please.

  • vanroth

    I was talking to some Indian friends and are they mighty pissed. The view in India is that Pakistani intelligence can plan such operations or turn a blind eye to terrorists precisely because they know they can continue to do so with impunity. Because everytime there is yet another terrorist attack, India is asked to “show restraint”. The State Dept. will rap Pakistan on the knuckles and the administration will issue a statement condemning terrorism and that will be the end of it. Till the next time it happens again.

    The simple fact is that the US needs (or at least thinks it does) Pakistan more than it needs India. The Reagan administration armed General Zia to the teeth ostensibly to fight the Soviets but those F-16′s, tanks and Awacs have been positioned on the eastern border against the Indians ever since. Historically, Republican adminstrations have always believed in treating India and Pakistan as equals, incongruous as that may be, and that has only emboldened the Pakistani intelligence. You won’t encourage those “jihadi” groups or issue statements about giving “diplomatic and moral support” to “freedom fighters” as the Pakistanis are so fond of proclaiming unless you are sure there won’t be any consequences.

    • benny

      very well said, and absolutely true. I suspect that one of these days, India is not gonna ‘show restraint’, and actually take military action. They are sick of the same attacks that happen over and over again. The “this is it, we’re not gonna take it anymore” feeling is highly prevalent among the Indians.

    • MrMike

      What would be the downside of a nuclear response?

      • Baba Rum Raisin

        Prevailing winds from West to East would be one I can think of right offhand.

  • MrMike

    In light of these recent terror attacks, Israel would be nuts to cede any of the captured territories back.
    In fact with winter coming on it might be a good time for them to take out the infrastructure of Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan if they make a fuss about it.

  • blog force one

    What many here as well as the MSM are not getting or overlooking is that this was an Al Qaeda subcontracting operation .THE MAIN TARGETS WERE SPECIFICLY AMERICAN,BRITISH and JEWISH-ISRAELIs !! What doesn’t everybody get? The MSM is desparately scrubbing any specific reference to this being an ISLAMIC ATTACK against the WEST! How long are we going ti keep taking hits kike this while giving Muslims a PASS? Every single Friday millions of Muslims worldwide are encouraged and instucted to support and foment this kind of activity by their Imams underwritten by Saudi Wahabbi funding!!!! How long will we be subjected to this apologist mentality?? WTF!!!

    • Baba Rum Raisin

      O’Bannon will take office and the W-H-O-L-E W-O-R-L-D will love us again and wait patiently to ride the Unity Unicorn!

    • ritamary

      Well I have been reading MSM websites like Reuters and BBC. They are reporting very specifically that Americans, British and Israelis were targets.

  • tampagurl

    I can hardly wait for Obama to wave his magic wand and fix our economy, stop world hunger, and create peace throughout the world. Oh yeah and pay my bills for me too! LOL

  • blog force one

    The sad ,sad truth is that 95 percent of the Muslim world would not lose any sleep over this atrocity in Mumbai and would not lose any sleep if the entire non-Mislim world were slaughtered like pigs before a roast… In fact,more than 50 pct would celebrste the event giving out candies to kids as they did on 9 11 2001. They are taught to hate us from childhood. and a Major education campaign throughout the Islamic world is in order to teach tolerance and diversity. Until this happens and the Imams stop teaching hate we are in for much more of this kind of activity. These terrorist attacks are called “resistence” in the mosques.!

    • Strawberrybitch

      Wouldn’t it be great if we weren’t dependent on these people for our every day existence? These guys wouldn’t have the money or means to pull this crap off.

      • Ferd Berfle

        It sure would be great. We could tell them to eat their oil and wish them luck with growing anything in that desert they inhabit. Hell, we could create OFEC, Organization of Food Exporting Countries, and tell them we’re jacking up the price of grain.

        • Strawberrybitch

          Ferd. They did nothing to further their own future. Nothing. We had to tell them what they were sitting on and how to get it out of the fucking ground. Now they have us by the short hairs and live better then we do. WELL, the men folk do anyhow…

          • Ferd Berfle

            They have us by the short hairs for now. I keep thinking back to WWII and the creation of the Atom bomb. We did it in about 4 years. If we were to put our minds collectively to creating an alternative to fossil fuels we could do it. Then the Middle East could try figuring out what to do with all those pipeliens and refineries. Maybe they could make them a monument to their own greed.

            • Strawberrybitch

              I know we already have the technology Ferd, had it for years. How do you think travel to the moon was possible? Batteries. Again. Please watch Who Killed the Electric Car? And that was back in the early 90′s. I’m a huge Mini Coop fan. And they’ve announced the fielding of the electric Mini Coop. 700 bucks a month to lease it but only after your application has been approved. And only IF you live in one of three states. Google up the Zen or the electric Smart Car. I’m trying to put these cool solar tiles on my house (seen in the movie) but it would cost about $300,000 to go totally solar. Why is that? We can get free cell phones when we buy a Qwest contract, but we haven’t mass marketed cheap solar roof tiles yet? Hmmmm. Who would benefit and who would suffer from free cheap energy?

              • Strawberrybitch

                PS Batteries sustained us up in space not propelled us. But we have the abliltiy to make small viable batteries if we want to. At least to power cars.

                • workingclass artist

                  Hmmmm…interesting…The problem with Batteries is Cobalt 95% of the world’s supply is mined and produced in China…And so begins another thuggy problem…*sigh*

              • Ferd Berfle

                Batteries are fine for automobiles and for powering orbiting satellites. Solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, et al., are also needed. For the generation of large amounts of power, however, we need to take the next step, which is fusion.

                Personally I do not care any longer who would be hurt by cheap, clean energy. Being held hostage by the greed of others is getting mighty f’ing old.

                • Strawberrybitch

                  Especially when they live better then we do. Google up skiiing in the middle east or the “green city” in the desert. You’ll puke.

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    Agreed. Skiing in the Middle East is yet another example of wretched excess. They could use all that cash to help the Palestinians they claim to be so concerned about or other poor Moslems worldwide. That isn’t going to happen any time soon, I’m sure.

    • tampagurl

      They are taught to hate us from childhood

      On a serious note, since Islam is the fastest growing religion it is very frightening to me that America seems to be pushing Christianity out. Every time I turn on the TV, I hear another report of merry Christmas being kicked to the curb and replaced by Happy Holidays.

      You think it’s not important? Give an inch, they’ll take a mile.

      • Galt

        I just thought of something related to the comment you were replying and quoting, “They are taught to hate us from childhood.” I am not saying this to excuse that but it dawned on me something related happens here in the USA: Kids are taught to hate all kinds of other people by their families, certain religious institutions, etc. Political parties practice divide and conquer and this sets a bad example and kids learn to hate the “opposition.” Etc. I think we need to be equally concerned what goes on at home.

        • tampagurl

          That’s true Galt, the hate is often really fear. Because we fear what we don’t know or understand. We also fear losing our way of life.

        • http://tojo toni

          Galt, you are so right in your post and it was a nice way to relate the situation in India to our own vulnerabilities. It seems every year,in youth sport’s alone, hating the opposition is practiced and growing…especially in competitive leagues…which has to spread into “everyday” life. Interesting food for thought.

          • Galt

            Thanks for seeing my point. On a fundamental level hate is hate.

            • Baba Rum Raisin

              I fail to see why my viewpoint that these people (Muslim fundamentalists) are not cost-effective, convival or productive fellow passengers upon spaceship Earth and therefore are an expensive, undesirable and unjustifiable luxury for the rest of us is construed as Hate.

              Nuke about 20 million of the bastards and you’ll gentle’em right down, like shaving a cat.

              I don’t hate’em…just think they Gotta Go!

              • workingclass artist

                Hmmmm…baba Rum…What a very Roman sentiment…

  • justsomeone

    blog force one, For as long as the U.N & political correctness survive.If you read further up on this thread perhaps you noticed my comment, there REALLY are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan. This is a balancing act, it takes luck & finesse. The Mumbai incident was both an attack on India & an attack on the west. Take a look at a map, Pakistan borders Afghanistan. How many wars do you think our bankrupt country can fight at once? Before a strategy can be developed we need to KNOW if this attack was committed by non-state actors/rogue players or if this was done with the blessing of the ISI. So try & calm down & try not to inflame a very tense situation. I’ve seen Pakistanis on tv, regular citizens as well as government spokespeople condemn these attacks. We both want & need the cooperation of Pakistan to stop the scourge of terrorism.

  • benny
    • blog force one

      Galt, I respect your opinion , but to equate American deficiencies regarding the teaching of tolerance with the institutional and pervasive teaching of hate in 90% of the mosques and most school books in Muslim countries(all paid for and printed by Wahabbi money from Saudi Arabia) is specious at best, and irresponsible apologist ‘we are the bad people’ logic at worst!. They want us all converted to Islam or dead, no middle ground! Ayman Al Zawahiri #2 Al Quaeda today exhorted all Americans to convert! In Mumbai. they SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY WERE LOKKING FOR AMERICANS AND BRITS TO KILL!

      • Ferd Berfle

        They want us all converted to Islam or dead, no middle ground! Ayman Al Zawahiri #2 Al Quaeda today exhorted all Americans to convert! In Mumbai. they SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY WERE LOKKING FOR AMERICANS AND BRITS TO KILL!

        Al Qaeda, though, does not speak for all of the Moslem faith. The most virulent forms of Islam want us dead, to be sure, and those are the ones we should be concerned about. I wouldn’t lump all Moslems together as a unified whole, though, any more than I would Christians.

        • workingclass artist

          It is the next chapter in the Crusades…and these regional memories are lot longer than those in the west…*sigh*

      • Galt

        I am not equating the two issues as equal. The comment reminded me of a related problem. Both need to be addressed.

  • marc

    Larry,

    I miss your posts about terrorism. This is why I used to read your blog. Shame you devoted the better part of the last year to Obama bashing instead of this kind of knowledgeable analysis of foreign affairs, something you’re good at. Keep doing this and I may start reading your site regularly again. You alienated many of your old regular readers with the way you handled the elections. It’s one thing to endorse a candidate, everyone is entitled to their views but it’s another to devote every waking minute to attacking another.

    What’s done is done. Like the poster earlier in the thread said, I’m all for you keeping Obama honest. If you question his decisions or actions by all means it’s up for discussion. Thats the beauty of this free country. But at the same time, like it or not he is your incumbent President. Give him a chance before you drag him through the mud. We all gave Bush many chances. In the meantime keep up the analysis on foreign affairs and terrorism. Thats your strength and it’d be a shame to see it wasted.

    -Marc

    • Strawberrybitch

      That’s kind of the point. Bush effed up so much that the margin of error for the next president was nonexistent…which is why Obama should have never been elected. He has no clue as to what to do. Otherwise he would never had to turn to people he deemed racist, corrupt and politics as usual, ie the Clintons.

      • tampagurl

        Keep doing this and I may start reading your site regularly again. You alienated many of your old regular readers with the way you handled the elections.

        Some people fancy themselves a bit more important than they actually are.

        • Galt

          I’m not replying directly to what you are replying to but it seems pretty obvious to me some people are trying to pressure Larry to dump the criticism of the Plasticine-(s)elect with their “concern” over Larry’s ad revenue, and “credibility.” Well, I guess they can knock themselves out silly trying. I don’t see Larry dropping the regular authors like Uppity for sharing her constitutional right to express herself as she deems fit. And I don’t see Larry kissing Opampers’ ass and falling in line never criticizing him.

          • tampagurl

            I’ve noticed that as well Galt.

    • Ferd Berfle

      I think Larry is doing a great job. It is nice to be able to come to a site where not everyone is a drooling worshipper of That One.

      • marc

        Not a worshipper. I have high expectations of the man and I plan to hold him to those expectations. Unlike many I don’t think of politics as a team sport where I’m happy as long as my team is in power. They’ve got a job to do and I expect them to do it well. I’m not particularly enthused with many in the democratically controlled house. I criticize them plenty. There’s a lot more I wish they’d do and many things I wish they wouldn’t. That said I’m also not going to jump ship to support those who represent the polar opposite of my views out of spite. Thats plain silly.

        • stodgie

          meet the new troll same as the old troll!

  • blog force one

    The terror squad also wanted to kill Jews, When they captured the Chabad Lubavitch house they tied up all of the Jews and killed the women first in order to make the men suffer as much as possible only hours or days later they killed the men when they knew it was over. Thank god that the child of the rabbi and his wife were saved by the nanny or they would have killed the 2 year old in front of the childs mother. Dispicable inhuman behavior promoted by current Wahabbi teachings and approved simply because the victims are Jewish.

    • Justme

      Yes very very sad it’s mind blowing to even think of the terror in there….

  • blog force one

    If the Imams of the mosques worldwide wanted this to be over . they could stop it any Friday with a strong denouncement of such behavior. no such denouncements are or will be forthcoming from most mosques however.

    • pm317

      Oh, you should hear the hate spewing from one Imam in UK — I don’t remember the name. But scary! And unbelievable that that man can walk around freely and do what he does.

      • Galt

        I am far from an apologist for hate speech. That being said, he is free to be hateful and we are free to call him on it. Our liberty depends on the liberty for those we disagree with, even the hateful walking freely amongst us. Liberty is not easy and as fundamentally beautiful as freedom is it can get mighty ugly at times.

        • pm317

          Good point, Galt. That is why it has been so difficult in democratic societies to reign in these terror instigators. But then where do we draw the line? If this Imam is suggesting to everyone who comes to hear him that they should kill non-Muslims and they carry out his wishes, then what is the obligation of the society at large?

          • Galt

            If someone actually conspires to carry out a specific violent act they should be arrested and prosecuted via the judicial system. We will have to outsmart the hateful in the cases where it is legal protected speech. I don’t see a choice unless we want to have jails for thought criminals. And I won’t go there. I’ll take the ugly side of freedom over that.

            • pm317

              I will too but we need a mechanism to counter such hateful rhetoric used to brainwash these youngsters and make them do those heinous crimes. The thing is where are other credible leaders in their community who can neutralize these hateful Imams?

              • Galt

                The thing is where are other credible leaders in their community who can neutralize these hateful Imams?

                That’s a great idea! They must be nurtured and supported. This is what I was talking about: outsmarting the hateful.

  • blog force one

    There are many forms of Islam which teach tolerance , Sufi, Ishamaili. Druze. and some Shi-ite and many other Sunni sects, but these are all being drowned out and crushed by Saudi /Wahabbi oil money. they are building the mosques worldwide with the caveat that the Imam must be a Wahabbi!

  • justsomeone

    India has a Coast Guard…& it sure has a lot of coast. Could the use of small drones augment their Coast Guard & Navy? Can drones function well around ports? Are they cost effective? Maybe we better worry about our own coasts. I just watched a Ridley Report.com UTube video advocating India relax it’s strict gun control laws so private citizens have a chance of defending themselves against the type of slaughter that took place in Mubai.

    • benny

      ‘I just watched a Ridley Report.com UTube video advocating India relax it’s strict gun control laws so private citizens have a chance of defending themselves against the type of slaughter that took place in Mumbai.’

      Dont think thats gonna happen. Gun-control is very, very strict in India and its unlikely to change.

  • pm317

    You have all seen the beautiful pictures of the Taj Hotel. Here is a little bit of remarkable history about how the Taj Mahal Hotel was built.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/scarred-shining/392369/

  • erin

    Another great article by you Larry. You are obviously very knowledgible on the subject of terrorism. I look forward to any future articles you write.

  • Mr.Murder

    Bombings in another country tonight. “Protestors” were bombed?

    I was more worried about something in the oil stans, south east europe, west or central Africa.

    Global business can be targeted, it will be, business has outgrown a one government protectorate model.

    A gain of deregulation!

    Let them eat collateral damage!

  • Bettie

    Don’t assume military and intelligence parity, the one thing that stuck out in regard to this operation, such as it is, was it’s templated Hollywood like, “24″ execution.

    And I suppose any real military man, or woman, could tell you it was amateur, in it’s excution. Going after a group of soft targets isn’t exactly the same as taking on a real operation, given advance knowledge, just as in a traditional battle, the attacks can be thwarted, and easily.

    Most likely before the public even has to know there was a plan…

    Given that, (and there MUST have been prior knowledge, sorry, I don’t buy these attacks are a “surprise”), how can they be circumvented?

  • TeakWoodKite

    Mr. Johnson, thanks for the paper link (and the site)

    I am wondering after reading that what connections there are between elements of the ISI, Hezbollah, Iran, (specifically the Revolutionary Guards) and others as it appears that some mis-direction occurred leading up to the attack.

    Just as we have co-operation agreements, do not these “organizations have the same motivation to share Intel?

    What I find very interesting is that this operation in Mumbai could have been “trained for” anywhere else in the world, thus leaving the local authorities with a lesser chance of detecting and taking counter measures.

    The foot print, if successful, of an advance intel team / operation is more asymmetrical than the eventual outcome and detecting a plot that targets a location elsewhere on the planet while in the planning stage is very difficult with out the co-operation of all countries involved.

    Another thing that stuck me about the paper was in some sections of the Israeli maritime area, they have only ten minutes to respond.

    Looking at the time line and response times to this attack will provide some insights to future possibilities in thwarting this mode of attack.

    What I have not seen yet is where the ship was hijacked, how it was accomplished and what SOS if any was sent prior being boarded.

    I am wondering if that “mother ship” was on anyones radar and if not why not.

    • pm317

      Teak, The navy should have intercepted them in their first transfer to small boats from the mother ship when they entered Indian waters — don’t know what happened there. But it seems that from the small boats they hijacked Kuber, the fishing trawler and killed the crew. And then (from a UK article on savagepolitics) there is news of another intercept by a coast guard and it says that the two men were asked aboard Kuber (with waving white flag) and one of them killed and the other used for navigation close to Mumbai shores and ultimately beheaded. All this from one of the two captured guys from the CST and Leo shootings.