More Injustice for Valerie Plame

Read the decision and it’s…uh…twisted! How can she rule that the information is classified, when it was made public beginning with Novak’s article up to and including Congressional testimony? Judge Jones writes that the CIA didn’t publicly disclose the information at issue [the years of Plame's service], it was Plame and/or Rep. Inslee who did!? It was the CIA’s letter. The public already knows about Plame’s CIA service even without that letter. Unbelievable. This judge was a Clinton appointee too, if that means anything.

Hope the Wilsons appeal.

i choose not going to read this chicklet’s decision.

larry, your line is priceless: We are now officially in crazyland. Alice’s rabbit hole is open and we are in freefall.

this line….let me provide a counter explanation: There is no other explanation for the illogical, bizarre decision issued today by Judge Barbara Jones

actually, it is real simple. valerie is a threat to the system, to the establishment, to the military industrial complex’s profits and to the madness of king george the second. ergo, she must be impeded. almost at all costs. (is an appeal of this travesty being contemplated? take it to the supreme court if need be. what a hoot that would be: the gang that selected george ruling on this. too rich for words.)

in our fantasy land here “in the land of the free and the home of the brave” no one would ever out a cia noc agent. doing so would widely be viewed as flat out treason. especially, by the son of a former cia director. (insert ghwb the most insidious form of treason quote.) but, if god forbid, it did happen, justice would be done.

instead we have this fiasco. the people of the soviet union knew their media was f*cked. they knew “justice” (cough, cough) served the state. etc.

here in america we are slowly waking up. because as will rogers said, “some men learn by reading. others by observation. but most men,(pause), most men have to pee on the electric fence to find things out.” collectively, as a nation we are in a time of being on the electric fence.

my fervent prayer is that we wake up and take corrective action before we lose our country — and i mean that literally — to these fascists. i believe the next 30-60-90 days are very dangerous with this regime. terrorist attack here at home. gulf of tonkin 2.0. and hello martial law. the citizenry needs to have, literally, A SECOND AMERICAN REVOLUTION. like, right now.

two types of people: players and spectators.

I’m with Wethornet. We experienced a coup in 2000 and trusted our ship of state to eventually right its course. And for our trust, we got Sept 11, and the AUMF, and the Iraqi war and occupation. And then in 2004 we again trusted in our government, which had spent 200+ years engendering that trust. And since then, we’ve gotten Katrina and a “surge” and threats against Iran, double gas prices, the failings of our FDA and our infastructure.

There comes a time, when all sentient patriotic beings must take a final stand and declare enough is enough. This is the time, this is the place. Be it Valerie and her book, or a bridge in Minnesota, or some toothpaste from China, or another ied in Iraq… sometimes all one can say is “ENOUGH”.

We have been too complacent for entirely too long.. and now we must say NEVERMORE! And we must demand that our leaders follow us.

Everything is now in place for the absolute takeover by this new reich in America. We’ve seen it for years, and we’ve refused to call it by its proper name, and it has gotten stronger and more pervasive in the meantime….

Just as we need to label Libby and Cheney and Rove and Armitage traitors for outing Valerie Plame Wilson…We also need to understand and call their judges and their mealy-mouthed fellow travelers in the media treasonous as well.

We say, ” You are either with the constitution, or you are against it” You either tolerate the absolute contempt the White House has for congress and the rule of law, or you are for the constitution. There can be no gradations here. Either one sheet of vellum is sacrosanct, or it isn’t.

We are living in interesting times.

I beleive in reason, in history, in science and in law. I beleive the most powerful and beautiful and moving words ever written by mankind can be found in the Constitution. And in that construct within the Constitution, you are either for it, or you are against it. There are no more sides. Either you beleive in the rights of man and his inherent dignity, or you do not.

These are the principles and ideals I would die for. If you think the “GWOT-Iraq” is more important, go enlist. If not, then you must join me in my fight.

WOW! dee loralei. well said.

(and have i seen you say on this board here that you are from memphis? i ask because that’s “jes a littal piece down tha riv-ah” from this st. louis lad. that would be the mississippi for y’all.)

and yes i appreciate the support. part of my frustration, and yelling here — if it comes across that way — is that even on a blog by larry johnson, classmate of val’s, people aren’t saying, clearly, unapologetically,and w/o equivocation, that this was treason. can i get a witness? who will stand and testify? there must be accountability. the constitutional prescribed (proscribed?) remedy is impeachment. i’m sorry if you don’t wanna “go there” but as they say in the army, duty is a four letter word. gen. bobby e. lee also said duty was the most sublime word in the english language.

and, i feel like sh*t, because if this audience doesn’t “get it” how can i expect to have joe six pack american get it? and what message are we sending every american in the national security arena, especially those “on the pointy end of the spear” overseas, regardless of military, or oga (other gvt. agency, ie, cia), or whatever?

to paraphrase the rock song. there are certain things that are verboten in the life of an american citizen: you don’t tug on superman’s cape, you don’t spit into the wind, and you don’t mess around with cia noc agents. not complicated people.

i flat out love quotes, and this one from rabbi hillel, who lived around the time of jesus is a favorite and appropos. and w/o beating a dead horse into the ground, , hillel is saying there are 2 types of people: players and spectators; which are you?

btw, i don’t know what the pirke avot is…first time i’ve seen that. i first saw this quote when i walked into a jcc, jewish community center, in worcester, mass., to play racquetball. when i was a freshmen in college. fall 1976. it was carved in stone, marble?, in the foyer. (i also learned that fall about leo strauss as i majored in classical pol. philosophy; but that’s a story for another time.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If I am not for myself,
who will be?
And if I am for myself alone,
then what am I?
And if not now,
when?

- Rabbi Hillel, Pirke Avot 1:14

Amazing….just amazing and sad… I hope in 08 we have a peaceful revolution in both the US Congress and the White House. Time for a major change before we lose what ever is left of our Country…

Larry can write that Plame began employment at the CIA in 1985, but Plame can’t say that? Because, if I have this right, according to the Judge, public statements by private people don’t constitute a confirmation of classified information without official CIA confirmation. If so, why wouldn’t that apply to Plame in her book?

rob, like your thoughts….BUT, i am not quibbling here, but…..the peaceful revolution that you/we all want in 08……….it starts (takes index finger and points down sharply and hits the desk 3x) TODAY! right here! right now!

and when we brush our teeth in the mirror before going to bed, we smile. because we know what we have done to help the cause. because as messed up as our country is, it is a great place. because we have a community like no quarter….so that we know that we are not YANA…you are not alone. etc, etc. and we know we do the same drill the next day, and so on. (my RIs, ranger instructors said, “careful rangers. if you earn the tab, you have to earn it every day for the rest of your life.” some days are “goes,” and a few are “no goes”, but we take care of ourselves and stay in the game. woody allen said, 80% of success is showing up.) and we like the man, (or, the woman) we see in the mirror. (there’s a great poem out there, “the man in the mirror.”)

or, as dee loralei said,

“THIS IS THE TIME.

THIS IS THE PLACE.”

leslie, didn’t the cia director and the d.o. (i think it’s called) declare in open testimony (or letters) to congress that this was the case? there are u.s. gvt. officials who have declared that val is who she says she is.

but, besides our freefall in alice in wonderland’s rabbit hole (larry’s great phrase)…and kafka also springs to mind…the point is to f*ck with our heads…because. they. can. because they want val and joe (and to a lesser extent ourselves) to “take ourselves out of the game.” how persistent will we be? and will we not allow ourselves to be provoked into either a)inaction or, b) stupid action?

the key: if we can still LAUGH at the absurdity, even while enraged at the injustice. don’t know what keeps y’all balanced, centered in the hurricane of “living in interesting times,” but HUMOR is my “canary in the coal mine.”

Solution is simple. VP should write a novel.

BTW how do we get a copy of the letter read into the Congressional Record?

I’m 74 and I fear for my children’s and grandchildren’s future. What the hell is going on?(To steal a line from Coach Vince LOmbardi.(I know Larry is a Skins fan)) Where is the outrage from the public? Have we all become so used(?) to what is going on? Are we too comfortable? Where are the answers?

Dee Loralei, that was awesome.

Does this mean her book cannot be published? Unless she somehow prevails upon appeal? I can’t wrap my brain around the possibility that her book will be not allowed to be published in any form.

Now hold on, she can appeal, can’t she.

There are some very useful comments in the DailyKos entry of this same report by Larry:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/3/11837/68633

E.g.:

It is a final order

since the judge not only denied Plame’s motion for summary judgment, but granted the defendants.’ So yes, it is appealable.

Unfortunately the appeal would not get resolved in time for a fall publication. So they either would have to delay the book further in order to pursue the appeal, or edit the book accordingly. It is hard to tell what exactly she’d have to change in the book from the opinion — it sounds like the CIA was objecting not to her descriptions of certain events, but to having those events tied to a specific time frame.

I haven’t read the decision carefully, but I must admit that I am baffled by the notion that the government can object to the publication of facts that are in the public domain. The judge ruled that the publication of these facts — i.e., the actual dates of Plame’s employment, and the amount of time she spent overseas — were never declassified BY THE CIA pursuant to the legal requirements for declassification despite their publication, and so remain classified. (Ironic, given that one of the wingnuts’ constant refrains about Plame was that “everybody knew” she worked for the CIA so her identity wasn’t really classified.)

::::::::::::::

The Loops Of Insanity Are Truly Breathtaking

She can’t publish her book, because her position was so sensitive, but it was ok to out her because she had an unimportant desk job.

… and so on …

Yeah, but there’s another issue here beyond the verdict in this case…and that is how the verdict might apply to future cases. Is it me, or does this decision also retroactively justify the leaking of classified intelligence? The exact opposite of what this judge sought to do. Because, if this is correct, the judge said that public statements by private people don’t constitute a confirmation of classified information without official CIA confirmation. In other words, without CIA confirmation that Plame was covert, Novak could write that in his article and no harm would be done.

Is that what the Judge just ruled?

If Plame cannot state it, she can simply reference the letter, correct?

She just cannot state so, but can ask you to read an exceprt proving as much?

It sounds as if she would have to make an aggregate book, becoming the person who interviews others about a program and taking eggshell walk positions in her own right.

No Mr. Murder,
She can’t use the letter, because the CIA asked for it back. Then they resent it as classified. It’s absurd!

Susan,
Daily Kos commenter said: “She can’t publish her book, because her position was so sensitive, but it was ok to out her because she had an unimportant desk job.”

No, isn’t the Judge arguing that she can’t give her employment dates at the CIA, because that’s classified. But it’s OK for anyone else, including Novak and the CIA, to share what they believe is classified intelligence as long as the CIA doesn’t confirm it as classified?

It’s the Plame Exception!

Leslie, I credit you with giving me my first out-loud laugh of the day.

How ’bout some more? Like, “The Novak Supremacy.”

First we were told by BushCo that it wasn’t a crime because she wasn’t covert, her employment was common knowledge and she didn’t have an important or sensitive job (which begs the question: Where’s the news value in reporting what everyone already knows?) If true, it would be like reporting that Michey Mouse works for Disney.

And now that her employment truely is common knowledge, they argue that the information is so crucial to national security that she can’t even publish the dates in spite of the fact that it’s in the Cogressional Record.

Doesn’t one disprove the other?

I wonder what they would do to her if she went ahead and published it anyway (or, the publisher did). A form of revolution….civil disobedience. What would they do? Arrest her? Burn the books? Imagine all the great publicity — and questions raised….finally…..if that happened. She already IS a martyr representing everything that is wrong with this administration…..and the trampling of all our civil rights. I realize that as an undercover agent she agreed to give up some of those rights — heroically — but maybe there comes a time in history when one has to challenge something so obviously unfair and punishing. I mean COME ON….it is ALREADY out in the public….and SHE didn’t do that!

She — like Novak and Armitage, et al — could just say: “…it was never my INTENTION…” and the onus would be on THEM to have to try to prove her INTENTION. As they love to fall back on as the reason no one was charged with the original crime of TREASON under that IIPE or whatever it was.

Just thinking out loud. Making no sense, I guess. Frustrated for the Wilsons….. sigh

You would think after almost 7 years of lies, law breaking, civil rights violations, corruption, and no accountability, I would stop being shocked and downright PISSED off at what this administration gets away with. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?? When is enough going to be enough for the American public to stand up and DEMAND accountability? I want MY COUNTRY BACK!

I’d like to see a book publisher, any book publisher with the guts to defy this ruling, the same way the Bushites have defied congressional subpoenas.

The Plame Exception is similar in principle to the now classic Supreme Court “Gore Exception.” These are judicial decisions that have been written to apply to only one person, who usually happens to be a Democrat, denying them equal protection under the law.

NOTE: I didn’t mean to imply that there’s a prerequisite for party affiliation. The only prerequisite in the current trend of judicial exceptionalism is opposition to Bush. However, in some cases, even questioning a Bush directive is enough, for example: US Attorney-Gate.

The judges decision, I agree, is simply beyond bizarre and insane. A ruling that a matter of open public record, documented in huge amounts of print and broadcast media, debated on the national scale, and entered into the Congressional record, cannot be published in a book, begs the question of whether or not the judge’s basic perception and judgement are fit for entry into a law school, let alone a federal judge’s position.

I do hope that there is some forum for appeal of this wacky decision. Likewise, this particular judge should be seen as highly suspect in the future.

One simple solution:

Someone else write the book (a la The Authobiography of Alice B. Toklas), using only publicly-available information.

Since I bought “The Good Sheperd” from Amazon, they just sent me an email about a three week espionage series, “The Company”, which starts this Sunday, Aug 5th on TNT.

http://www.tnt.tv/series/thecompany/

From the email:

The story of the CIA during the Cold War is brought to life in The Company, a three-week television event from executive producer Ridley Scott and starring Chris O’Donnell, Alfred Molina, and Michael Keaton. From the rainy streets of Berlin to the shores of Cuba, from secret revolutionary gatherings in Budapest to high-level meetings in the halls of Washington and Moscow, The Company follows a game played over four decades between two super powers across the entire globe.

Judge Made Secret Ruling Against Key Element Of Bush Wiretapping
Washington Post | Carol D. Leonnig and Ellen Nakashima

“A federal intelligence court judge earlier this year secretly declared a key element of the Bush administration’s wiretapping efforts illegal, according to a lawmaker and government sources, providing a previously unstated rationale for fevered efforts by congressional lawmakers this week to expand the president’s spying powers.

House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) disclosed elements of the court’s decision in remarks Tuesday to Fox News as he was promoting the administration-backed wiretapping legislation. Boehner has denied revealing classified information, but two government officials privy to the details confirmed that his remarks concerned classified information.”

No wonder AWOL wants the law changed, Boehner and Abu gonzales got some explainin’ to do…

Yeah, Mr. Murder, and guess who revealed this classified info on Faux News Tuesday night, giving al Qaeda a clue on how to circumvent the NSA? House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, that’s who.

The GOP isn’t serious about listening in on terrorists. Can you imagine what would happen if a Democrat did this?

I’m not taking their side, but the judge, in this case, is entirely right.

When you get a clearance, you sign a form called an SF-312, and on that form, you agree not to confirm or deny any classified information, even if it’s been made public through other channels.

(even though the leaker – including Rove, by his own sworn testimony, CLEARLY violated this agreement, by saying “yeah, I heard that too.”)

So, the judge is right. Plame’s only remedy here, is to either leave the country, and publish, or wait until there is a new president who sees fit to declassify the information so she can publish. Normally, I guess you’d count on the current president to do the right thing and declassify, so her story can be told; seeing has how there no longer is a point to keeping her cover classified.

But counting on George W Bush to do the right thing, is very foolish.

Hey you writers out there…MP has a good idea. Now get crackin.

BTW – are you the same MP from PCblog? Just curious.

The Bush administration is a disgrace to our democracy and to the office of the presidency.

They out a covert CIA operative and cover-up the circumstances surrounding the death of a patriotic U.S. citizen killed while serving over in Afghanistan.

Scooter Libby lies and obstructs justice, shielding other Republican officials in the White House complicit in the outing of Valerie Plame Wilson.

In the case of the death of Cpl. Pat Tillman, one of the critical figures is Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the officer who issued the posthumous Silver Star citation, a citation that falsely claimed that Pat Tillman was killed by “enemy fire.”

This is the sequence:

McChrystal received a White House-crafted Silver Star citation and was ordered to issue it posthumously to Cpl. Pat Tillman, even though the “enemy fire” claim was false. He followed orders.

Per McChrystal’s later testimony before investigators, he knew the “enemy fire” claim was false because he’d received information days before contradicting this citation claim, probably information that Army doctors, following their examination of Tillman’s body, had called for a criminal investigation into his death, primarily because the three closely-spaced bullet holes in his forehead indicated to them that the shots had been fired from close range.

McChrystal couldn’t say no to a direct order from the White House that he issue the citation, but afterward he could warn his higher-ups at the Pentagon and the White House that they shouldn’t claim Tillman was killed by “enemy fire” in any of their public speeches.

You see, McChrystal could hardly have crafted and issued a Silver Star citation stating something that he knew to be false, which indicates that he must have been ordered by higher-ups to issue the citation…as written.

Because of the political nature of the “spun” citation, it must have originated in the White House, either in Rove’s or Cheney’s political offices.

McChrystal is commander of the covert Joint Special Operation Command (JSOC) which is involved in worldwide “black ops” activities. Thus, he knows things about the Bush crime family that few people do, probably including extraordinary rendition and the torture of suspects in secret “black ops” prisons around the world.

In his testimony, McChrystal tried hard not to implicate anyone higher-up the chain of command, at the Pentagon or even in the White House.

For his obfuscation, McChrystal’s censure, as recommended by the acting inspector general for the Pentagon, was overturned by top Army brass (and the White House). Thus, McChrystal keeps his position as head of the JSOC, effectively silencing him.

Hopefully, Congress will subpoena McChrystal and have him testify in open session while under oath, specifically asking him who sent him the Silver Star citation.

And if he hides behind the wall of executive privilege, then everyone will know that the Bush administration is responsible for the initial and ongoing cover-up (and obstruction of justice) into the circumstances surrounding the death of Cpl. Pat Tillman over in Afghanistan.

Comment by mudkitty
2007-08-04 03:26:52
BTW – are you the same MP from PCblog? Just curious.

Sorry, mk, didn’t see you there. But “signs point to yes.”

MP – you mean “lately?”

I read here more than I post-I am in awe of many of the regular contributors-such insight. I come from the sub-tropic humid region of The Woodlands, Texas (just north of Houston).

I’m reading my local paper this morning and the front page was a picture of a mother with her head resting on the top on her son’s casket, sobbing, as her husband was trying to console her. Her son – the soldier, had been killed in Afghanistan in late July. He was 22. That picture puts it all in perspective for me – this soldier is the ultimate casualty of a PNAC, Neo-Con vision of the Middle East and their own personal bank account. It is greed at it’s highest and worst.

Reading Larry’s post yesterday, about Valerie and the lengths that this administration have gone to, to basically deny that she didn’t exist nor do anything for her country prior to 2002, well, the rest of us are that mother laying with our heads down, sobbing, as we see our Constitution being shredded and our lives as we know them, ultimately affected by a PNAC Neo-Con’s vision.

Is there no end to this Neo-Con vision that has taken over our country? People seem to think that with a new Prez in 2009, that it will all stop – well, I for one, don’t believe it will stop.

Forget the Democrats doing anything now or later – they couldn’t find their way out of a dark cave with a flashlight, a GPS unit and a tour guide.

The Republicans are so corrupt and can do nothing either. Yet the power of Rove and all those others behind the scenes, just keeps clicking along, like they know something that everyone else doesn’t. Is that an attack where they can somehow lay the blame on the Democrats rather than OBL or Al Quaeda? That’s what’s so troubling – if attacks were a true and imminent threat on this country, most leaders wouldn’t be concerned about what political party someone belongs to. Me thinks this fearmongering by the Bush Administration is controlled.

This supposed Deep Throat that is lurking around on the internet, get off your ass and do something. We are all tired of the games this administration has played. We don’t need more games from you. If you’re for real that is…..

Lastly, if you have never seen the movie “The Inside Man” with Denzel Washington, Clive Owen and Christopher Plummer, you should watch it or watch it again – there is one, very subtle, telling scene in the whole movie – its where D. Washingtons character is sitting across from Christopher Plummer in Plummers office. Notice all the photos on the credenza behind Plummer – at first glance you probably don’t pay attention – but if you look closely, they seem to resemble photos of George and Barbara Bush and other important people. I left the movie thinking that somehow Spike Lee was insinuating that Plummers character was based on Prescott Bush, whom, we all have heard and read that he did business with the Nazi’s after WWII.

So this thing with Iraq, Repubs, Dems, Roves, Cheneys, Bush’s et al, is more to do with the fact that “The White Boy Network Establishment” is hanging on by a mere thread and people like Valerie Wilson, her team, the Pat Tillman’s came across something that threatened the existence of “The Establishment.”

Its time for that thread to be pulled.

Comment by mudkitty
2007-08-04 15:53:45
MP – you mean “lately?”

No, I meant I didn’t see you ‘up there’ on this ‘thread’.

But anyway, perhaps a little patience is in order. The next President can install Mr. Wilson as U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. and Miss Plame as head of the C.I.A., if only for the entertainment value in watching Neo-Con skulls explode.

Of course, we’d have to set up a ‘suicide watch’ on Kim [=======].

Outing that magnificent lady was TREASON plain and simple! That is despicable in itself. But when the neonazicons defended the outing by saying she was a ‘minor clerk’, ‘secretary’, or whatever else they called her I realized that dialogue with those people was a complete waste of time. It makes me want to puke when I think about the hypocrisy of them. I despise the fact that I have to share a country with them.

hey St. Louis, I am between you and Memphis. I am right off the boot heel in Dyersburg, TN We still the right stuff here in the south….hugs to you both.

good morning sportsfans.

posting from the V.V.A.W. Conference. Vietnam Veterans Against the War. totally awesome group of folks here. about 130 people. some real legends. hilarious stories. “fun” at gop 1972 convention in miami. w/o them instead of 58,200+ names on the vietnam memorial wall there would be 120,000.

one of the guys here is jan barry. founding father (there were 6) of vvaw and author of well known book on nam, “and a hard rain fell.”

i was born in ’58. too young for the s.e. asia war games. one in country vet told me yesterday, “congratulations.” ie, for missing all the “thrills and giggles.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
marc page, great idea. my thoughts exactly. and my first choice is joe wilson. quick paperback. out soon. title: they won’t let my wife talk. or, if my wife could talk. photo on cover: joe and val, testifying before congress setting. hands upraised ie, about to take the oath to tell the truth under penalty, etc. and val has duct tape on her mouth.

my wife says my self appointed mission in life is to come up with ideas that ….create a lot of work for other people.
~~~~~~~~~
and joe and val if you’re reading this: i honor you and salute you. one day we’ll meet. and this ocs, airborne ranger will look ya in the eye and say thank you. (ray mcgovern can vouch for me; i “his abn. rngr. in st. louis county, mizzourah.” as thomas paine said, “it is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from his government.”

as rangers in nam would say, “charlie mike.” or, “continue the mission.” (title of a novel by a army lt. col. who was in nam as a ranger and later bn. cdr. of the airborne school at benning.

MP, you’re a different MP then. That’s all. Nothing cryptic.

mk:

Ever the cryptic, if slightly confused kitty.

I remain, as always, the MP you’ve come to know and …

Bad ruling, and bad legislating from the bench.

Really, this is why every idea that the WH sends up, and every nominee will have to be filibustered to death. Anyone they send will be a partisan hack, because otherwise the WH wouldn’t approve them.

While I would normally agree with O_B_F on the SF-312, the point in question is independently in the public domain from Novak, the Waxman hearing in March, by W himself in trying to find out whodunnit, and via the Libby trial. The government has already declassified it. Of course, the government has also been re-classifying its bad news as well, so this is more of that process. In balance, though, Val should publish. France would love it.

Cool…

confirmation of information security training…

You have got to be kidding!…

Eric…

If you truly want to learn more see this article…