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“New Mexico Bill Would Criminalize Abortions After Rape As ‘Tampering With Evidence’” (open thread)

I am personally opposed to abortion. However, I am rather like a libertarian. While I was pregnant, I regularly attended La Leche League meetings and learned so much about mothering from the women. While I am opposed to abortion, it is also each person’s right to choose. Hillary Clinton says that abortions should be “safe, legal and rare.” In my opinion, it is a difficult, complex decision that each woman and partner must make.


An anti-abortion protester sits in front of the United State Supreme Court on June 25, 2012 in Washington, D.C.

The Supreme Court is expected to give its ruling on President Obama’s health care reform bill, the Affordable Care Act.

UPI/Kevin Dietsch

I just visited Reason magazine and noticed an article titled “Roe Vs. Wade 40th Anniversary Today.” Reason posted an article from the UPI, “Support for Roe decision still strong.”

The UPI noted that “70 percent of U.S. residents do not want the landmark on abortion ruling overturned,” while the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 54 percent of Americans remains in favor of abortion.

According to Huffington Post’s article (via Memeorandum):

Rep. Cathrynn Brown introduced a bill on January 23rd that “would legally require victims of rape to carry their pregnancies to term in order to use the fetus as evidence for a sexual assault trial.”

[Rep. Brown] would charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for “tampering with evidence.”

“Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime,” the bill says.





Mississippi could become the first state with no legal abortion clinic, because the only remaining one is having trouble meeting the legal requirement on hospital admitting privileges. Arkansas, North Dakota and South Dakota have only one clinic each.

“When you’re the only provider in a state, you become a target,” Tammi Kromenaker, director of the Red River Women’s Clinic in Fargo, N.D., told MSNBC.

Abortion opponents point to polls that show most U.S. voters do not want tax dollars used for abortions.

Opponents of public funding for Planned Parenthood argue that funding for women’s health services such as physical exams and contraception frees up money to pay for abortions.

The anti-abortion Susan B. Anthony List notes state and local funding for Planned Parenthood has been cut in Arizona, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin.

The annual March for Life, in which tens of thousands of abortion opponents march from the National Mall to the Supreme Court, is scheduled for Friday. (from the UPI)

Personally, I am concerned about severe penalties. Rep. Cathrynn Brown wants to charge a rape victim who ended her pregnancy with a third-degree felony for “tampering with evidence.”

In my view, rape itself is a shattering experience. As I wrote this post tonight, I imagined what I would feel like if I had been raped. Had that happened to me, I would be bewildered, and my conscience would be troubled. What would I do in that situation? I simply do not know.

I trust that you will share your views on this difficult, sensitive topic.

  • getfitnow
  • HELENK2

    http://www.businessinsider.com/ahead-of-2014-pullout-afghanistan-fraud-corruption-money-lost-2013-1?0=defense

    US spent millions of dollars on Afghan police cars that do not exist.

    gee maybe some of that money could have gone to military healthcare

    • getfitnow

      And I think I read we spent millions on a consulate there that will never open.

  • HELENK2

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/01/25/obama-to-cut-healthcare-benefits-for-active-duty-and-retired-military/

    backtrack to cut healthcare benefits for active and retired military

  • HELENK2
    • HARP2

      I`ll try that, next time I`m caught speeding.

  • HELENK2

    Is anyone watching the Hannity show about Boomtown DC. lots of money floating around there. no wonder the rest of the country is broke

  • driguana
  • driguana

    Living in Santa Fe, NM, home of the legislature, we are inundated with this abortion bill on a daily basis. Several things seems to be going on and I’m not really able to grasp all of it. First, anything that is Anti-abortion in this town will be thrown to the media wolves…the medea wolves… to be ripped to shreds. The uber-liberal press in Santa Fe is having a field day with this to rip stupid, ignorant, soulless Republicans. Second, it does, indeed, appear to be a very ridiculous bill putting yet another Republican into a catfight that they probably should have avoided. But, thirdly, there does appear to be some kind of legal technicality that while it may have validity, should not have been put into a legislative bill….there will really be no discussion of it in this 60 day session other than emotional vitriole. Immigration bills will, in the end, be a much bigger deal here in NM.

  • getfitnow

    So good…it’s a must read from snarky Steyn at his best.

    http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/difference-409271-one-obama.html

  • HELENK2

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/25/sandy-victims-left-out-in-cold-during-arctic-blast/

    victims of sandy still living in tents. no one seems to be talking about this any more.

    heck of a job backtrack

  • getfitnow
  • getfitnow
  • MG6

    If the communist party is cheering this on….

    http://www.infowars.com/communists-cheer-on-obamas-gun-grab/

    On has to remember history where every communist party has done gun ban resulted in millions being slaughtered.

  • HELENK2

    STARTING SUNDAY

    stores can charge a 4% charge if you use a credit card to pay for your purchase.

    debit cards OK

    credit cards 4% charge

  • twobits2

    Abortion is taking the life of an unborn human – in my book, that’s murder. No one offers that unborn life a choice, do they?

    While I have compassion for the mother – my advocacy is stronger for the child because it has no voice.

    Carry the child to term and give it up for adoption.

    I don’t know about tampering with evidence, but find it a clever tool to allow an unborn human being to live. Whatever it takes.

  • HELENK2

    http://freebeacon.com/obama-didnt-tell-marine-general-he-was-being-sacked/

    backtrack did NOT tell General he was being replaced.

    typical backtrack low class action

    • Hokma

      What an arrogant disrespectful turd

      • Neoconhater

        Yes, that’s you all the way, but you left out ignorant.

        • Hokma

          Hey Stalker -

          Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you’d had enough oxygen at birth?

          As a public service you may want to commit yourself to this place:

          http://www.silverhillhospital.org/Home.aspx

          Just trying to be helpful maggot.

          • Neoconhater

            Maggot?
            Charming fella you are! And you call me a stalker?

            • Hokma

              Rufus – the problem is that you use the same avatar. Why don’t you go prowl for more “baggers”

  • HELENK2

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feinstein-gun-control-bill-exempt-government-officials_697732.html

    feinstein’s gun grab would exempt government officials. do you think I should worry??

  • HELENK2

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jan/25/algeria-hostage-crisis-full-story

    full story on Alerian hostage crisis

    a lot more info than we got on Benghazi

    • getfitnow

      Who and where are the Benghazi survivors?

  • HELENK2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21203233

    former CIA agent gets jailed for leaking name of covert operative.
    Larry
    do you know John Kirakou?

    • Retired_from_SPOnaj

      Kiriakou is a lying, self-serving fool who tried to sell knowledge that he gained from his position as a CIA officer. Some jail time would do him good. I feel a bit sorry for his wife, who appears to be innocent in all of this, but those are the breaks.

  • HELENK2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21205323

    Pentagon laying off 46000 workers.

  • HELENK2

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/01/25/gun-running-ag-eric-holder-starts-implementing-obamas-gun-control-executive-orders/

    fast and furious eric holder’s dept of crime starts implementing backtrack gun control executive orders

  • MG6

    O/T

    betsy hiel @betsy_hiel

    Man in #Tahrir holds sign asking for the US to stop supporting the Muslim Brotherhood #egypt pic.twitter.com/sMR0hAs3
    10:27 AM – 25 Jan 13

    155 RETWEETS 18 FAVORITES ReplyRetweetFavorite

  • DianaLC

    As someone who has been thinking about this issue since before Roe v Wade was a reality, I remain firm that I do not believe that abortion should be an alternative in the minds of most young women.
    First, I believe that if the pregnancy is a result of not being careful enough, then the woman should make the decision to step up to the plate and become a mother. I do believe that there are now so many services in place that it’s basically in the young woman’s interest to keep the baby. Young girls who take advantage of those services and who use the experience to become more responsible about having sex, generally can actually improve their chances. Often these are young women who are in pretty bad home situations. As a teacher, I’ve witnessed this phenomenon of a young girl becoming a woman and improving her life, while raising that child.
    The girls who choose abortion, sad to say, often then rationalize that the decision was really a minor decision. I’ve also seen young women then keep being irresponsible and keep having abortions. That’s where I do not want my tax dollars to be spent. I’d like a one-time rule for tax supported help with abortion. I don’t know how you set up a system to do that, but I am very much opposed to helping to pay for those abortion-as-birth-control abortions.
    Generally, I do believe it is the right of a woman to make that decision, and I do know that so many factors can be involved that there is no one answer. So I do not want Rove v Wade to be overturned. But I never want to help pay for abortion past the first trimester.
    The idea of forcing a rape victim to carry a child as evidence is absolutely absurd.

    • Hokma

      One other option for a young child bearer placing the child up for adoption.

      • Neoconhater

        If it’s a medical emergency or the woman has been raped it’s seem reasonable to let a woman choose what to do not some loon like you to choose for her.

        • DianaLC

          I believe the word that Hokma used was “option.” Hokma was providing an option and not making a choice for someone else.
          That option if taken would probably provide a lot of joy to couples who have now to spend a fortune getting babies from overseas.

          • Neoconhater

            Hokma is a coward and a fool.

            • Hokma

              And you are history.

              • Neoconhater

                Make sure to remain in your stupid bagger bubble little boy, it’s safe in there.

                You’re such a coward and crybaby, typical stupid bagger.

                • DianaLC

                  Boy, you write the way all my middle schoolers used to talk when they were fighting. No logic, but lots of name calling. I think I know who the fool is, and it is not Hokma.

    • getfitnow

      I read recently, that young women ages 18-29—most don’t know what this decision was about.

      • DianaLC

        I am not surprised at all. I find few young people that age who don’t believe the world began and will end with them and that all the stars in the universe are there to shine their light upon their every action. It really is a very egocentric generation in many regards.
        I will provide the caveat that I do know there are many fine young people, but I do also know that I’ve watched as our young people in this country have become more and more unwilling to read and study anything that has to do with history.

  • Hokma

    That New Mexico bill is silly. If a woman is raped and as a result is pregnant, then the man did not wear protection and his DNA is all over the place regardless of whether she gets pregnant or not. I don’t think that bill will go anywhere. It is dumb.

    Like you I am opposed to abortions and like you view what Hillary said (“safe, legal and rare”) as a guide.

    Regarding those polls, the left like to play with samples and questions. The NBC Poll said 54% believe that abortion SHOULD BE LEGAL either always or most of the time. That does NOT mean that 54% of people favor abortions or believe in abortions.

    Gallup asked basically the same question, but also broke the question down by trimester. In the first trimester those that thought it should remain legal was 61%. But in the second trimester it drops to only 27% and the third trimester only 14%. This is where the greatest controversy is and will be.

    People like Obama and Andrew Cuomo are in favor of and are pushing now for abortions allowed in the third trimester. Right now the law bans abortions in the third trimester.

    And then they ask one more question which is whether you personally believe that in general abortions are morally acceptable or morally wrong. 51% say it is morally wrong, while only 38% say it is morally acceptable.

    Also a larger majority of people favor a 24 hour waiting period, parental notification for girls under 18, and against partial birth abortions which Obama favored in the past.

    Unfortunately the media will twist research to mislead the public and benefit their immoral narrative.

  • getfitnow

    Run when you see the word “Community” or “Affordable” attached to anything coming out of the government,

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/012413-641859-obama-community-reinvestment-act-low-income-loans.htm

  • MG6

    O/T

    More on the Obama ,or Ayers, plan to further divide the country and take the youth away from its constitutional heritage.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-wants-100000-american-students-study-communist-china

    • DianaLC

      I would be in favor of that ONLY if those student also had the right to travel anywhere in China they might want to go so they could see how people live all over China, and if those students’ computer privileges also allowed all the internet access they wanted and allowed them to share their computers with Chinese friends.

      • MG6

        Right, show them the difference between oppression and freedom.

  • getfitnow
  • getfitnow

    We are broke!

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DISABILITIES_SCHOOL_ATHLETICS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-25-03-25-42

    And what happens if a school doesn’t have enough disabled students to make up a team?

  • getfitnow
    • MG6

      Read the article and passed it on.
      Thanks!

  • Dave L.

    If the woman doesn’t want the child after giving birth, does the state take over and care for the living child for the next 19 years ?? 1940′s back alleys , here we come !!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/margaret.maree Margaret Maree

      Slim to no chance that nobody would step up to adopt a baby. People go through a grueling and expensive process adopting babies from abroad because there is such competition for the few stateside.

  • HARP2

    That 70% would drop dramatically if everyone had to witness an abortion and the results.

    • JohnnyTwoDog

      According to the March of Dimes, as many as 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. So most women have either direct experience, or have had a close friend or relative provide what must be a gory detail.

      I am happy to let them have the decision on the outcome to their body. And I am equally happy not to have strangers deciding for them.

      It does not matter what I think about the process or outcome.

  • HELENK2

    when new mexico bill can get pregnant after being raped then he should offer his opinion. Until then zip it.
    Rape is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a person. It can take years to get past the feeling of being helpless and violated. It changes your life. For someone else to make the decision on what to do with the product of that rape and as much as I love kids and agree that they have a right to live this baby would be a product of the rape to the woman carrying it.
    Abortion is never an easy decision to make and you have to live with the decision for the rest of your life. It is a decision that no one else has the right to make for you.