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Do You Want Obama To Have Permission to Kill You?

I do not shed a tear for the deceased terrorist and American citizen, Anwar Al Awlaki, but his case certainly raises some very interesting and controversial issues. Does the President have the right to execute an American citizen without due process? Well, if the President is George W. Bush the answer is, “hell no!” But what about Barack Obama?

The secrecy surrounding such strikes is fast emerging as a central issue in this week’s hearing of White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan, a key architect of the drone campaign, to be CIA director. Brennan was the first administration official to publicly acknowledge drone strikes in a speech last year, calling them “consistent with the inherent right of self-defense.” In a separate talk at the Northwestern University Law School in March, Attorney General Eric Holder specifically endorsed the constitutionality of targeted killings of Americans, saying they could be justified if government officials determine the target poses “an imminent threat of violent attack.”

But the confidential Justice Department “white paper” introduces a more expansive definition of self-defense or imminent attack than described by Brennan or Holder in their public speeches. It refers, for example, to what it calls a “broader concept of imminence” than actual intelligence about any ongoing plot against the U.S. homeland.

“The condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on U.S. persons and interests will take place in the immediate future,” the memo states.

Instead, it says, an “informed, high-level” official of the U.S. government may determine that the targeted American has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack and “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.” The memo does not define “recently” or “activities.”

As in Holder’s speech, the confidential memo lays out a three-part test that would make targeted killings of American lawful: In addition to the suspect being an imminent threat, capture of the target must be “infeasible, and the strike must be conducted according to “law of war principles.” But the memo elaborates on some of these factors in ways that go beyond what the attorney general said publicly. For example, it states that U.S. officials may consider whether an attempted capture of a suspect would pose an “undue risk” to U.S. personnel involved in such an operation. If so, U.S. officials could determine that the capture operation of the targeted American would not be feasible, making it lawful for the U.S. government to order a killing instead, the memo concludes.

The undated memo is entitled “Lawfulness of a Lethal Operation Directed Against a U.S. Citizen who is a Senior Operational Leader of Al Qa’ida or An Associated Force.” It was provided to members of the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary committees in June by administration officials on the condition that it be kept confidential and not discussed publicly.

I understand why Obama, with John Brennan’s strong cheerleading, green lit the hit on Awlaki. Awlaki had declared war on the United States, was recruiting people to carry out attacks on us and was implicated directly in a failed attack to bomb a U.S. airliner. I love the hypocrisy of some. Democrats who condemned Bush over waterboarding are silent on this abuse of Presidential power. Not all, though. To their credit, the ACLU is condemning Obama. Appropriately so.

I suppose we must acknowledge that Abraham Lincoln was the worst offender when it came to authorizing the killing of American citizens without recourse to due process. Just stating that it ain’t the first time this issue has come up.

So, what do we do? Do we give the President power over life and death without the possibility of judicial review? What say you?

  • nannasin smith

    American would not be feasible.
    24C08

  • MG6

    Even John Stewart think Obama adm is hypocritical.

    http://clashdaily.com/2013/02/john-stewart-rips-obamas-killer-drone-hypocrisy/

  • bbf

    You mention Anwar Al Awlaki,…as if he was only one who was murdered. There was one drone strike that murdered the father
    Anwar Al Awlaki, and then a second drone strike that murdered the 16 year old son, who was also an American citizen. Initial reports made it seem as if both were killed in the same attack, Now it has been made clear. There were 2 separate drone attacks. Larry..is it also OK with you to murder 16 year old American children..along with the children of those unfortunate residents of North Africa and the Middle East?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqqz_KLU4Ys

  • foxyladi14

    Anyone watching the Panetta or Brennen hearings on C-SPAN??

    • HELENK2

      I am. seems to me that the committee members are using their limited time to blow smoke and not ask questions

  • HELENK2

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9855020/Iran-shows-footage-extracted-from-US-drone.html

    remember the drone that crashed in Iran and backtrack would not give the order to have it destroyed? well lookee here, the Iranians are having a lot of fun with it

  • HELENK2

    Video: Brennan confirmation hearing

  • HELENK2

    there was an unarmed drone at Benghzai. since drones seem to be able to pinpoint targets,would an armed drone saved the lives of the two SEALS?

    • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

      No.

  • HELENK2

    Panetta hearing on C-SPAN now.

    Brennan hearing on C-SPAN at 2:30pm eastern

  • HARP2

    The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.

    An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion.

    To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month.Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.

    • JJ Birk

      you need to read your info better. how do you get 21.6 mm rounds… normal order for training purposes..

      • HARP2

        A solicitation posted yesterday on
        the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS
        Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.

        The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge
        .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of
        100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point
        bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).

        The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).

        http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/

  • getfitnow

    I agree. This is an indication of how far we have fallen that
    only 11 Senators are even questioning this outrageous abuse of power by POTUS.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/assassin_in_chief.html

  • HARP2

    Media Confirms Barack Obama Called For Drone Bombing of 16 Year-Old Denver Boy

    In May 2012 The New York Times revealed that Barack Obama was the official who actually made the final call on US drone strikes.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/02/media-confirms-barack-obama-called-for-drone-bombing-of-16-year-old-denver-boy/

  • HARP2

    Following their logic, the UK should be able to send drones over America to kill violent IRA members.

    Liberal logic on display.

    Canada has terrorists too. Are we going to send a hellfire missile into Toronto ?

  • getfitnow
  • getfitnow
  • MagicBus

    I think I see where this is going. After leaving office, at the urging of his loyal cult following, Obama will star in a hip new television program where viewers nationwide can tune in to vote for the next lucky victim assassinated by him. Each show will conclude with actual footage showing the demise of the chosen sacrifice.

  • HARP2

    So obama thinks it`s OK to kill Americans but the muslims he wanted to bring to New York for a fair trial.

    HELLO……MEDIA….There could be a story here.

  • MG6
  • HELENK2

    what is the difference between backtrack and assad? both feel they have the right to kill the citizens of their country because they are against the government.

  • JohnnyTwoDog

    if an American-born jihadi living in the United States was about to launch an attack.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/05/obama-carney-walk-away-from-media-questions-about-kill-policy/#ixzz2KAfP1k5s

    Well I say if they have information about a Timothy McVeigh wannabe, by all means send the dear boy to hell post haste. They don’t need my permission.

    Using drones or other means to spy on innocent citizens on domestic soil? Entirely different. Gather domestic intellegence threats the legal way. The Patriot Act goes far enough.

    • Popsmoke

      ” Well I say if they have information about a Timothy McVeigh wannabe, by all means send the dear boy to hell post haste. They don’t need my permission.”

      I see you love to selectively use the constitution for your own enjoyment. You chompski are the problem with folk today…

      • JohnnyTwoDog

        You, from the darkest void of my nether regions again? Seriously I have got to cut down on the beans in the burritos.
        Is that why you call yourself poop smoke?

  • HELENK2
  • foxyladi14

    Valjar said there would be hel to pay

  • HELENK2

    two interesting hearings tomorrow

    Brennan on his CIA nomination

    Panetta on Benghazi

  • HELENK2

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52923

    read the part about the cyber warriors for obama

  • MG6
    • HELENK2

      these are the same people who scream about the slavery of yesterday, but would willing enslave themselves today.

  • HELENK2

    http://nation.foxnews.com/drones/2013/02/06/rush-if-nixon-had-same-power-obama-s-assuming-he-could-have-wiped-out-bill-ayers

    I never listen to rush, but he is right about this.
    if Nixon had claimed the powers that backtrack is claiming, he could have wiped out bomber billy ayers

    • getfitnow

      If you were on Nixon’s enemies list, you got audited. If you’re on That One’s enemies list you get killed. Nixon just
      didn´t know the Chicago way.

  • HELENK2

    off topic

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/02/06/panetta-to-recommend-troops-have-their-pay-cut/

    Panetta recommends that troops pay be cut. Already to pay more for healthcare.
    Unlike politicians I do not know any troops that get rich at their job

  • JJ Birk

    “I love the hypocrisy of some. Democrats who condemned Bush over waterboarding are silent on this abuse of Presidential power. Not all, though.”
    There are many on the “left” who have and are condemning the drone program. Just Google it. Sometimes quite loudly. Check out Code Pink’s protests or disruptions at some governmental hearings. There have been many scholarly pieces that have come out against the drone program in publications like the New Yorker or the NYT.
    However, there is absolutely no one on the “right” who is condemning the drone program, except possibly LJ. However, I suspect LJ only condemns the program for political reasons, to take his predictable shot at Obama. We never heard Larry Johnson complaining about the drone program when Bush created it.
    Of course if Awlaki was successful at attacking the U.S. we would be hearing complaints from Larry Johnson if Obama had the “shot” at Awlaki ahead of time and did not take the “shot”.
    It really depends on where you draw the line. Sure Awlaki is an American, but he could also be considered an enemy combatant, someone at war with America. When at war you can take out enemy combatants on the battle field, even if they are from your own country. The question is whether Yemen or Afghanistan are really a battle field that we are at war on. An asymmetrical enemy often requires asymmetrical solutions.

    • DianaLC

      JJBirk, the cyber warrior estraordinaire! Maybe you’ll get a bonus for this one!!!

    • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

      You are an idiot. But, we know who you are. Thanks for playing Lola.

    • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

      BTW, go look at Daily Kos or TPM. It is not a lead story. The left is giving Obama a pass. Bush can’t water board, he’s bad, but Obama can kill an AMCIT without due process and its okay. Fucking hypocrite.

  • KenoshaMarge

    I say not just no but hell no! I don’t want any president, liberal, conservative, moderate or whatever to have that kind of power. This isn’t just about Obama, this is about overreach by the person in the Oval Office.

    I shed no tears for terrorists, foreign or domestic. But I also believe in the rule of law and the constitution. It seems less and less true to me when someone, usually a blabbermouth politician spouts some crap about our being a “Nation of Laws.” Am I alone in thinking that those who should be most vigilant about our laws being followed and enforced simply ignore any they don’t like?

    John Meacham, of all people, actually called Obama – King Obama on Morning Joe.

    Scarborough actually said that if Bush had done the same that Washington would have come to a complete halt and articles of impeachment would have been in the offing.
    Where are the media types calling Obama a cowboy?

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2013/02/06/meacham-drone-kills-obama-acting-american-king#ixzz2K87V7kMQ

    • HELENK2

      marge

      chris rock calls backtrack and meeeeschele mom and dad

      http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/06/shut-up-and-obey-the-government-says-edgy-comedian-chris-rock/

      I know damn well those two are not my parents

      • KenoshaMarge

        I find that just a tad disrespectful to the office. But since I find Chris Rock damn near as obnoxious as Obama, let them keep the obnoxious in the family. And there is a resemblance around the ears…

        • elizabethrc

          Obama has ill-used intelligence. Rock has none. This is just more of the same CNN variety desperation to convince everyone that Obama is NOT a failure. Too bad they don’t have more ‘heroes’ who actually worked to help ALL people, not just their own.

          • foxyladi14

            He isn’t helping his own very much either
            If we mean AA,s

          • KenoshaMarge

            George Washington was the father of his country. Evidently Obama is perceived, by some, as the father of his party. Big difference IMO

            Either way, left or right, worshipping a president and allowing him, or perhaps someday her, to decide what is right or wrong is an abdication of your duty as a citizen.

            Not to mention that worshipping a politician, any politician, is, and this is just my opinion after all, fundamentally stupid. I prefer to think for myself and to decide if I agree or disagree with what a politician, any politician from either party, is doing/saying. And if those things are things that I believe to be right and true.

            I don’t claim to have all the answers. Not even most of them. But politicians, and presidents are just politicians elected to the highest office in the country, don’t either!

      • getfitnow

        Sounds like that “slave mentality” some on the left so easily accuse black conservatives having.

  • getfitnow

    These are very dark times. The media have been silenced and neutered. The Republicans are huddled with Rove trying to figure out how to become Democrats and POTUS is a psychotic anti-America freak.All we have now is sycophants–the lot of them. /rant

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/05/obama-carney-walk-away-from-media-questions-about-kill-policy/

  • Deborah Miller
  • Popsmoke

    Here is your typical what the fuck article…. So someone please explain to this dumb sonofabitch what the hell we think we are doing pissing on the constitution?

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/american-muslim-terrorism/

    • HARP2

      Guess we can get rid of the TSA now.

  • Popsmoke

    Here is another good one…..

    “Due process” and “judicial process” are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process.”

    http://www.lawfareblog.com/2013/02/whats-really-wrong-with-the-targeted-killing-white-paper/

    Just depressing…..Holy Shit! Our Founding Fathers would have there gaves relocated to another country if they could…

  • Popsmoke
  • HELENK2
    • Popsmoke

      Evening attire for a date with Big Brother?
      http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/01/28/dressing-for-big-brother/

      • HELENK2

        I saw that isn’t sad that we even joke about it.

        this may not make a lot of sense to some people. I was a little kid during WW2. We were so proud of this country and knew what we were fighting against. My mom went to work in a factory that packed military radios. My dad was in the CBI theater of war. sometime read about the LEDO road under Vinegar Joe Stillwell. After the war we had what was called the “COLD WAR” I learned about communism in high school from a teacher that believed you can not fight what you do not know. We were very proud of this country and still knew what were fighting against. Many friends of mine went to Korea. My late husband was in Korea. We were proud of our country and knew what we were fighting against. In all that time the people of this country were proud to make what sacrifices that were needed to support this country and the military. In the sixties I saw the country start to change and people start to rant against the country and everything I was taught to believe about her. Today’s backtrack government is an extension of that anti-American teaching.
        In tearing down the Constitution by going after guns in violation of the 2nd amendment, in bypassing due process with the drones it almost bankrupting the economy it hurts this country.
        That belief may sound corny and old fashioned by that is what I believe and I cry for my country today,

        end of rant

        • Popsmoke

          Helen.. the days you wrote about unfortunately are long gone. There was once honor in actions. Not today….

          • HELENK2

            then it is our duty as American citizens to do all we can to get them back. This is the greatest county on earth. What other country has done so much to help other countries. Are we perfect NO. I want future generations to have the pride and willingness to do all we can to keep this country free

            • Popsmoke

              Helen,
              The current generation in stuck in low gear. Its not about the many. To them its about the one….

              • HELENK2

                then we start with the few that do understand honor.
                It took 40 years to get to this place, It will take time, teaching, and patience to get back to a place of honor. I do believe it can be done. We do come from good stock and have overcome many trials

          • Retired_from_SPOnaj

            Honor. When I look at far too many of our leaders today, I wonder if they even consider honor before they act, It would appear not.
            But I comfort myself somewhat when I see some of our young vets of recent wars. Seemingly so callow, yet they understand honor. Perhaps enough of them will mature into the next generation of leadership that our nation can recover its honor.

            • Popsmoke

              “We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth.”

              • Retired_from_SPOnaj

                Pop, thanks for reminding me of Lincoln’s speech. I actually used that quote one time when a trainee asked me what the essence of an intelligence career was.

                • Popsmoke

                  The sad part is that is still has a valid application in 2013…

        • elizabethrc

          Ever notice, especially around Christmastime, how many shows spotlight that WWII and post WWII era with nostalgia?
          They WERE wonderful times in which to grow up, in spite of the fact that we were at war. I remember the air raid drills with wardens coming to each house where light accidentally showed through a blanket covered window. I remember the Victory garden my Mom had, the ration books, the wonderful things she cooked without certain ingredients because they were scarce. I remember the day peace was announced, when we joined just about every resident down town where happy pandemonium reigned on High Street.
          Simply put, people liked each other more than they do today.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Watch this video and tell me you have a right to privacy.

    The answer is no… hell no. Not ’cause it bothers me, it is because that bell could ring for any class of humans and at the mere desire of someone else.
    Is it the opinion of the SCOTUS that this is constitutional? Inspite of no love lost for Anwar Al Awlaki’s fate, as he was an traitor and an enemy combatant by his own words, he was an American citizen. It really sucks to be him.
    But then again, are principles to be surrended to the vageries of Salafist life?

    • no_longer_a_democrat

      Supreme ct justices are not supreme beings. They are just 9 people who happen to sit on a court and render their opinions. They are not God, nor is their opinion those of supreme beings.

      As an institutional, the supreme ct prior to the civil war rendered essentially that slavery was fine.

      They render an opinion, that’s it. Congress can overturn it, as Andrew Jackson once said, “let the supreme ct enforce a stupid law”, he refused to do so. (I’m now referring to the individual mandate)

      • TeakWoodKite

        Thanks for making tact to starboard. It does appear that Obama overtly refuses to follow the law and thinks nothing of it.

    • Popsmoke

      Well we are back in the overt assination business and that really sucks…guess contracting out to third parties does not make good political hay anymore….

      • TeakWoodKite

        :)

  • FloridaFI

    Obama is a Chicago Thug. He proudly announced last year that he personally chose the targets.

    Watch out America. This man has no problem pointing a finger at a human and saying, “Kill that one!”

    • JohnnyTwoDog

      Well so far at least he is pointing the kill finger at all the baahhd people. Just like Ahhnode.

  • no_longer_a_democrat

    Since Barry Soetero does it, its a-ok. If Bush had done this, not ok.

    –liberal’s rules.

  • HARP2

    Now all he has to do is declare the Tea Party, or some other group, he disagrees with a terrorist organization and bingo….end of opposition. Sure seems like the 193o`s Germany to me.

    • marvgoux1

      It’s amazing how quickly things are collapsing…just like the Weimar Republic.

    • NellieS

      Harp,

      He could also declare opposing Republicans as “Terrorists”. I agree with you, anyone or group could now be the 1930′s “Jews” of today.

    • JJ Birk

      The Tea Party is a domestic terrorist group. You seem to be running away from it. Put your flag logo back up. You nuts deserved to be run off the reservation.

      • win44

        No, it’s really not. C’mon.

      • HARP2

        Can`t post under your old name huh ?

      • HARP2

        Here…….you forgot your flag before you shit all over this site.

        • marvgoux1

          Meanwhile Occupy Wall Street behaved like a terrorist group. I wonder if these Obama worshippers ever stopped to think what might happen if they ever lose their grip on the presidency after supporting unprecedented expansion of executive powers?

    • JohnnyTwoDog

      Harp, I nearly always agree with you but I think you are way over reacting and dramaticizing this.

      I mean really, equal to the rise of Hitler and extermination of 6 million Jews, physically and mentally challenged and homos (as they were known then, but gay now – much happier and loveable)

      Back in reality and far more serious yet typical is Obama’s singling out S&P for fraudulently propping mortgage backed securities.
      Goldman Sachs? No impropriety found wink wink. In Aug 2012, just in time to get the hard needed campaign cash flowing.

      S&P downgraded US debt. Goldman plays along happy they backed the winning horse. Should S&P be more worried the coming drone strike than the lawyers at the door? Or being marched off to death camps?

      Not good, but 1930′s Germany? Come on man.

      • elizabethrc

        Given the utterly complacent liberals in the country and in Congress, it COULD happen unless people learn about history and how such an atrocity came into being.
        I’d far rather have warning bells ring even if it turns out that it was an over reach than have our rights taken away because we did not heed them.
        It’s undeniable that Obama is testing his strength and power on a regular basis. The regulations he’s imposing are clearly meant to restrict us on so many fronts. Bankrupting us, weakening our military and spying on us from the skies are only steps part of this removal of our rights.
        I’d rather be overly wary than becoming an ignorant and unseeing victim.

        • foxyladi14

          Been happening for awhile now. remember toilets and light bulbs.
          We are like frogs in the pot.

      • DianaLC

        Better to over react than to under react and be caught with your pants down.

  • HELENK2

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/05/16856963-american-drone-deaths-highlight-controversy?lite

    do not know if this is propaganda or not a 16 year old was killed because of who his father was.
    When you deliberately set out to kill someone, you better have a good reason and proof of wrong doing, not just think they might do something wrong

    I believe in checks and balances

  • Theymustbemorons

    Well ain’t that a transformative kick in the head.

  • JohnnyTwoDog

    Jimmy Lee Dykes didn’t get due process either and is just as dead as Awlaki. Frankly, I see no difference between the two. They both were US Citizens and both posed immediate threats.

    btw, in emergency management an immediate threat is defined as an event that has a likelyhood of occuring within 5 years. Those two were much more immediate.

    The ACLU and other Lawyers can do all the legal mumbo jumbo dancing they want. It is fair and just that Awlaki and Dykes are no longer with us.

    The White Paper and what happenend to Alwaki are not the same thing as giving the President carte blanche over life and death without the possibility of judicial review. If so there would be no need for a White Paper.

    • Popsmoke

      We send a FBI HRT for Awlaki? If you can’t see the difference between the two and remember I am oppsed to this policy as well, then I suggest you take your head out of your ass.

      • JohnnyTwoDog

        Both are dead, and neither had due process. Who said anything about wasting further FBI resources?
        I have to put my head up may ass to converse with you. I guess I need to change my diet to make you go away.

        • Popsmoke

          Listen shit-for-brains….
          Dykes was given plenty of opportunities to surrender. He was killed because he made what appeared to be threating moves against his hostage, a five year old. The Constitution does not give blanket protection to anyone who is committing a crime in progress. Its a two way street. You surrender you get the right to due process. Now if he surrendered and was then killed or killed while surrendering then you got something.
          Awalki? Well while its to bad so sad, he was on the field of battle. Yeah I have a problem with the policy. Just as I did with Bush. But my problem is that this targeted killing includes US soil.
          As far as your understanding of what an immediate threat is and what EM professionals consider it is. Is so far off base that you need a snorkel to breath with becuase that is how far your head is up your ass.

    • Popsmoke

      By the way, emergency management eh?
      Threat: • An indication of possible violence, harm, or danger. (NIMS) • The possibility of a hazard occurrence; something that has the potential to cause harm.

      Junior…got shit to do with anything that may happen within any specific long term time frame window…

      Means CURRENT THREAT….

      • JohnnyTwoDog

        have you been hitting the bottle again? Don’t make me call your sponsor.

    • foxyladi14

      Silly me for asking, but is this even LEGAL ??

  • Popsmoke

    Just very sad and not a peep out of republican leadership either….
    The sign beneath the Great Seal should read….
    Sheriffs Sale….