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Kennedy, The Smoking Gun

Unless you are at least 57 years old, you do not remember dick about the day Kennedy was shot and killed. But, you have lived your life immersed in an ocean of conspiracy theory–Lyndon Johnson killed him, the Mafia Killed him, the CIA killed him or the Cubans/Soviets whacked him. I’m amazed, looking back, that despite his mediocre record as President, coupled with the sin of nepotism, Kennedy is lionized by the generation that did not know him as a great President.

Kennedy had style and a voracious sexual appetite. I’m not sure which attribute is most admired. But I’m not writing to debate his record. I want to flag to you a new book that I believe really settles the case of what happened to John F. Kennedy.

The book is, Colin McLaren’s JFK: The Smoking Gun. The New York Post review says:

is pretty sure to be the most provocative and controversial declaration we’ll see this month as all of television marks the 50th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination on Nov. 22, 1963.

It’s not a big spoiler to reveal McLaren’s conclusion: that Kennedy died from friendly fire.

I was quite skeptical until I watched the documentary featuring McLaren.

He does not start with any preconceived notion. He is all about the evidence. And the evidence he focuses on is two-fold: 1) the ballistics, and 2) eyewitness testimony.

The ballistic evidence is the most compelling. McLaren supports part of the Warren Commission conclusion, namely, that Oswald fired a shot that hit Kennedy, exited his throat and then passed thru the body of Governor John Connolly. The rounds fired by Oswald were full metal jacket. These are high velocity rounds that are not likely to fragment or explode.

But Oswald did not fire the fatal head shot. That round came from an AR-15 style carbine carried by a Secret Service Agent in the follow car. McLaren posits that the round was an accidental discharge, which occurred when the Agent, reacting to the first shot, grabbed the weapon and raised it. The explosion of Kennedy’s head is consistent with the frangible round fired from an AR-15.

If Oswald was responsible for the fatal head shot, the bullet should have exited from Kennedy’s left cheek. That’s not what we see on the Zapruder film.

McLaren’s case is buttressed by the testimony of at least 11 witnesses on the ground level who smelled gun smoke after the fatal head shot. There is no way in hell that the gas expelled when Oswald fired from the Sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository would have reached the ground.

McLaren does not claim that the Secret Service deliberately shot Kennedy. Nope. It falls into the category of “shit happens.” I recommend the book to you. While it is possible that Johnson, the Mafia, the Cubans, the Soviets and the CIA were happy that Kennedy died, none were likely responsible.

  • TeakWoodKite

    LJ If this your position why did Congress conclude there was a conspiracy?

    • TeakWoodKite

      Oh and one more thing LJ… me and my Red Tricycle didn’t get to play that day as mum called us in to watch the TV.

  • Hy Ron

    “Unless you are at least 57 years old, you do not remember dick about the day Kennedy was shot and killed.” This. Wasn’t even alive. Don’t Care.

  • APO_AE_09173

    Thanks for pointing out that Kennedy was at best a mediocre president. I have said that for years–silly me I looked at the facts dispassionately. I grew up overseas. I didn’t have access to the worship culture.

    I did see the pain and suffering from his actions in East German, and the Czech capital. But hey he did Marilyn and everybody else. He must be a hero

  • Larchmonter445

    Kennedy was shot because there was a coup.

    In October 1963 Kennedy signed an Executive Order to pull out all 16,000 troops. One month later he was dead.

    NSAM 263 http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asse

    Then on Nov. 26th LBJ signed NSAM 273 escalated the war.

    http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/j

    The reason for the coup that replaced JFK with LBJ?

    Continue the war, oil in South China Sea, JFK was not going to win re-election and LBJ wanted to run the show, the Cubans in Miami and the CIA at South Miami Station hated him for Bay of Pigs, the Mafia and some others wanted to end Robert Kennedy’s DOJ investigations.

    Plenty of reasons. The best: all of them and the film JFK indicates how all were woven as one.

    Facts, not fiction of Secret Service gunshots. They first floated the driver turned and shot him. Now, it’s from behind again.

    Please explain how his brain went backwards from a shot from the rear.

    He took a shot from the front.

    Oswald using the same rifle a month or so earlier missed with several shots through a living room window from the front lawn of General Walker. Later, he becomes a marksman, somewhere between shot one and shot two, or for the official story, shot three. (in the Marines he was a bad shot).

    Fairy tales like pristine bullets hitting bones.

    He was triangulated in a kill zone, in a coup, by professionals trained to get Castro.

  • JohnnyTwoDog

    So there was a second gunman on the ground all along? All the evidence of a second gunman is now believable? And it was a tragic bazillion to one accident?
    Of all the theories this has to be the stupidest.

  • HELENK2
    • sowsear1

      Saudi Prince: Iran the problem, not Israel

      http://shoebat.com/2013/11/23/saudi-prince-threat-iran-israel/

      • Sam

        Interesting read. Lots to think about. Persia and Obama vs. Mecca and Jerusalem? Somebody explain to me why American Jews are predominately supporters of Obama?

    • HELENK2

      In deal, Iran commits to halting progress on its enrichment capacity, White House says – @KiritRadia_ABC

  • HARP2

    BREAKING/UNFOLDING: EGYPT FILES CRIMINAL TERROR CHARGES AT The ICC- AGAINST OBAMA!

    Egypt’s leaders (not exactly a bastion of freedom and
    liberty seekers) are the ones taking the lead, that is, in pushing back against the leader of the free world. Its essence revolves around BarackHUSSEIN Obama’s ties to the Muslim Brotherhood Mafia. They have an incontrovertible case to bring before the International Criminal Court,
    aka the ICC

    http://adinakutnicki.com/2013/11/13/breakingunfolding-egypt-files-criminal-terror-charges-at-the-icc-against-obama-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/

  • HELENK2
    • Deapster

      Unbelievable — and the camera never stopped shooting (uh, bad choice of words). First one notices it is just the guys dancing ….. and then pow!

      • JohnnyTwoDog

        Just another day in the peace loving Muslim world. And posted with pride for all to see the beloved martyrs.

  • HELENK2

    Just watched a documentary on Netflix
    the man nobody knew

    about William Colby head of the CIA.
    it was interesting, unsettling and made me think

    there are things that have to be done to protect the country. Being the one to do them is not that easy.

  • binky354
  • binky354
  • binky354

    O/T – An interesting 13-part probe – “Wisconsin Reporter has learned the probe targets conservative advocacy organizations and at least one Republican official.”

    http://watchdog.org/113017/conservatives-wisconsin/

  • MJUdall

    There was a documentary on REELZ channel last week on this book but I didn’t watch because I thought it was a typical conspiracy kook doc on the subject. It is on again tonight and I will have to watch it now.

    • akaPatience

      I just watched it! It’s a compelling story. What’s most suspicious to me is various Secret Service behavior in the aftermath of the assassination. That, and the testimony of several who claimed to have smelled gunsmoke.

      A lot is made of ballistic evidence, like Larry mentioned. However, the conclusions drawn in JFK: Smoking Gun differ greatly from the NOVA episode I saw, JFK: Cold Case. For instance, in Smoking Gun, it claims a FMJ bullet wouldn’t have fragmented in Kennedy’s brain. But the analysis in NOVA says a FMJ indeed would’ve fragmented in this type of instance. Also, in SG, much is made about the size of the fatal entry wound being smaller than Oswald’s FMJ bullets. Yet in NOVA, it was explained that the fatal flesh wound would’ve closed up a bit after the penetration of the bullet, thus accounting for that discrepancy. There are a few other differences in the conclusions drawn, but the NOVA episode seemed to have performed more precise scientific analyses than those performed by Howard Donahue, whose ballistic investigations in the ’60s through ’90s form the basis of JFK: Smoking Gun.

  • Retired_from_SPOnaj

    Larry, true story follows. When I worked at that super sensitive division in the late 1990s, there was a “black taped” archive file box (i.e., a banker’s box that had been sealed shut with black tape) sitting in the finance office. At the time, black taped boxes signified that the information contained therein was exceptionally sensitive and that the archiving division had to be notified and a representative be present before the box was unsealed and opened. The division being exceptionally sensitive, all of our archive boxes were black taped, On the box was the marking “Oswald, L.” in black Magic Marker.
    I happened to know that the files contained in the box had nothing to do with Lee Harvey Oswald since I had looked at them before the box was sealed up. But, being a prankster, I just couldn’t resist–I added an “H.” in black Magic Marker after the “L.” as a joke.
    Well, the box sat in the finance office, piling up with other black tape boxes until we had enough to make an archives run.
    Of course, almost on cue, the General Counsel came down with its periodic request for all components to scour their offices for any information on Lee Harvey Oswald. Our division deputy chief happened to be walking through finance one day and spotted the prominently-marked black taped box. He came over to my office (finance was one the the branches that fell under my group) and asked what was in the box.
    “I’m not quite sure,” I said, innocently. “It’s something that’s been around for decades. It’s one of the things that every group chief (i.e., myself and all of my predecessors) signs for when he takes over the group, and then signs over to his successor when he departs, passing along verbal instructions to just keep it until someone asks for it.”
    Needless to say, the deputy division chief went ballistic. He summoned the division’s Assistant General Counsel and a couple of witnesses and ceremoniously opened the box, anticipating that, at long last, the evidence of the Agency’s most sensitive records of “the” Lee Harvey had been found. The finance branch people, who knew what was in the box, could barely contain their laughter as the records contained therein were examined, only to find the the “L.” didn’t stand for Lee and there was no reason why there should be an “H.” on the box. Such disappointment!

    • binky354

      Well, what WAS in the box?

      • Retired_from_SPOnaj

        The action packed expense account of an officer with the pseudonym (i.e., code name) of Oswald. Needless to say, the “Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar” jokes lasted for about a week afterwards.

  • HELENK2
    • Deapster

      In fact, JFK would be vilified as a bona fide card carrying member of the dreaded 1%. And, ohhhh, the white privilege of his entire life too.

      This country has come a long way since his era.

      • HELENK2

        random thought

        would you invite one of today’s rude, ignorant and bullying democrats into your home. I would not.
        I can not see sitting down and having a conversation with any of them. they would not listen as they would be too busy telling me how to run my life, what i can eat or drink or why I was not smart enough to buy the “right” health insurance. Or why teaching my kids right from wrong was not good enough and their government should do it for me. How the America i grew up in that helped the world was a bad thing. How my religion was no longer relevant unless I was muslim. how i was a terrible person because I worked for a living and took away from someone who did not work so they deserved the fruits of my labor more than I did.
        No I can not see having any of them in my home

        • S7teen70six

          I cannot see them in my home
          I cannot hear them on my phone
          I cannot watch them on the tube
          I cannot listen to a boob

          • binky354

            PERfect

        • harvey

          I live in a rural area about sixteen miles out of town and at best I am leery of the mail-lady :) who at times brings items to my door -I have a mail box out on the side of the highway. But no! I wouldn’t invite a democrat into my house. As a matter of fact I don’t want one standing on my door step. I do keep a peacemaker nearby the front door. You never know what kind of varmint is wandering around outside in the dark. I know I am not in the last census. Around here people do not just walk up to your house without an announcement. HELLO THE HOUSE! LOL! seriously.

      • harvey

        What I like and remember most about Kennedy is the Cuban missile crisis. He didn’t back down and allow those missiles to be installed in our hemisphere. He may have helped lay the ground-work for the Vietnam war but the man who replaced him managed that war just like Obama is managing his war. I don’t believe Kennedy would have ever gave into giving all these people uncivil civil rights that were designed to undercut the rights of all law abiding working American people. And the attitude that slogan above projects of the man behind it may be what got him killed. Where Kennedy may have laid the ground work for Vietnam L B Johnson has helped lay the ground-work for what has brought us to the predicament we are in today. If Obama has a socialist government LB Johnson is the god father of it.

        • Hy Ron

          JFK CAUSED it.

          • harvey

            Sorry I can’t buy into that

  • harvey

    What most people in the state at the time of the killing of Kennedy wanted to know was “How in hell did Oswald know the route of the Kennedy motorcade and manage to get the Book Store job two weeks in advance of Kennedy’s arrival in Dallas?”
    It was said “only the vice president, L.B. Johnson, and Security would have that information” that early on. You can bet as soon as one Dallas city official learned of the upcoming event every thug in town also learned.

  • HELENK2

    http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sc/web/video/titles/23734/was-a-car-bomb-close-to-killing-kennedy-in-1960

    this is an interesting video.
    did not know there was a plot to kill JFK with a car bomb

  • HELENK2

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/11/dangerous_times_a_looming_strategic_disaster_in_the_middle_east.html

    the backtrack bunch are not only dangerous for America, they are dangerous to the world

  • HELENK2
  • Deapster

    I want to learn why Jack Ruby killed Oswald. That was always a missing understory. Not sure his top story told the whole story – trying to save the Kennedy family from further grief.

    • KlugerRD

      I saw the “Killing Kennedy” movie on TV but have not yet read the book. But in the movie the portrayal of Jack Ruby was very superficial as well as his access into the police department and its parking garage.

      Ruby was the owner of a strip club and was connected to the local mafia. The movie portrayed him as a close friend to police with easy access.

      I believe as the Kennedys have that Oswald was put up to it by the elements of the mafia – that Ruby was instructed to take out Oswald to make sure he would never speak – and that it was not coincidental that RFK was immediately gunned down as soon as he closed the deal on the Democratic nomination with a win in California.

      The mafia was not some terrorist group that announces their intention and then takes credit for it. They will place as much space between the ones that give the orders and the ones that perpetrate the hit.

      The bullets fired at Kennedy from that distance could only have been shot by an exceptional marksman and not Oswald ever was that good.

      I do not think we will ever know the truth – particularly since it is 50 years later and almost everyone involved is either dead or very old.

      • Deapster

        I always wondered since Ruby died of cancer shortly after, if he volunteered for the job knowing he was a dead man anyway.

      • DianaLC

        I believe that Ruby was a little mental, like Oswald. I think his many police connections–the fact that he gave them “favors” through his “girls” made him feel that the police would let him get away with it. He was reported as saying, “Hey, guys, it’s me, Jack Ruby” when they took him down.
        The Mafia connection would have been because of RFK–and then there was the girlfriend of one of the Mafia guys who was pictured in O’Reilly’s movie in the swimming pool with Kennedy.
        There are all types of “connections,” but none are sufficient cause-effect connections than ones that can really be tied to the guns that were held in the hands of the killer of Kennedy and the killer of Oswald

        • KlugerRD

          Joe Kennedy enlisted Sam Giancana to get union votes for JFK first in the West Virginia primary and the in Illinois for the general election.

          When they got into office, RFK as Attorney General began going after the very people who helped get JFK into office. According to the codes of the Mafia they must have regarded that as an infamia. Add to that the fact that JFK was messing around with Giancana’s mistress and you can come to only one conclusion.

          • Deapster

            Why the breach between JFK and RFK on this topic – both using and getting the mafia?

            Or was some sort of sibling rivalry getting acted out at our expense between the two bros and daddy’s favoritism?

            • KlugerRD

              I am not sure if either of the Kennedy boys actually knew what their father did.

              • Deapster

                Or with whom.

          • DianaLC

            I do know all this Mafia did it theory. I’ve always wondered, however, if the Mafia would have preferred to keep them alive to figure out a way to bribe them later instead. The problem with Giancana’s girlfriend in my mind never had to do with Giancana being angry about that, but with her spying for the Mafia.
            And then you have to also get into the Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theories about her death because of her relationship with the Kennedy boys.
            I am still sticking with the mentally twisted young Marxist as the first cause. It wouldn’t make a difference to me if the “friendly fire” thing is attached to that, as that was not PURPOSEFUL friendly fire. But that takes someone who knows far more about guns, bullets, and covering up witness testimony. And from what I saw the family of the agent claims he swore constantly that he didn’t do it.

            • KlugerRD

              The mob would get someone who seemed to be unstable and have a reason to kill. The idea would be never to trace it back to who actually ordered it. I never thought that it would be the mafia until RFK was assassinated and when. The best evidence is that the Kennedy’s themselves have always believed it.

              • akaPatience

                Kluger, you had me until that last sentence! There are some seriously strange Kennedys these days. Maybe it has something to do with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

                • KlugerRD

                  The strange ones are the RFK children. The Shrivers are all normal. But it something they all felt and just accepted.

              • Deapster

                Lone gunman with addled mind exploited by the mob encouraged to do the dirty deed.

                Lone gunman with terminal cancer kills first lone gunman live on TV, and it doesn’t matter if he gets life or death as result.

                • JohnnyTwoDog

                  The mob recruits and exploits rubes to do their dirty work All The Time.
                  So do politicians
                  So do the unions
                  So do ordinary people

              • DianaLC

                I’ve heard that Jackie bemoaned the fact that Kennedy was killed by a little “commie.”

            • Deapster

              Or why did Billy Ayers dedicate his book about his radical days to Sirhan Sirhan. Just to be punk, or what?

              That at least ties Chicago to Sirhan in some way.

          • Sam

            Why did RFK go after the mob after the mob helped JFK get elected? He didn’t have to. JFK had a girlfgriend that was mob connected and supposedly carried messages to her mob boss. ???????????

            • KlugerRD

              The only answer would be that RFK (and JFK) had no idea what their father did with the mob. So Bobby was just doing his job.

              • Sam

                You think their father would have let them carry on with a very dangerous agenda without telling them? That the father would not have been aware of the possible consequences or would not have had any warnings from the mob? The boys had to know their father wasn’t an angel. Then there is the girlfriend??? I suppose the Kennedys could have felt invincible.

                • KlugerRD

                  Their father suffered a massive stroke and was no longer able to communicate well and may have lost a lot of his memory.

                  • Sam

                    JFK was sworn in Jan of 1961 and RFK became attorney gen. The father had the massive stroke in Dec of 1961. RFK had a little less than a year as attorney general before the father had the stroke. Hmmm. Not sure what that means, if anything, but it’s something to think about.

                    • Sam

                      Here is a little snippet from Wikipedia… “Kenney soon made a name for himself as the chief counsel of the 1957–59 Senate Labor Rackets Committee under chairman John L. McClellan. In a dramatic scene, Kennedy squared off with Teamsters union President Jimmy Hoffa during the antagonistic argument that marked Hoffa’s testimony.[29] Kennedy left the Rackets Committee in late 1959 in order to run his brother John’s successful presidential campaign.

                      In 1960, he published the book The Enemy Within, describing the corrupt practices within the Teamsters and other unions that he had helped investigate; the book sold very well.”
                      Did the mob and the unions really help get Kennedy elected?

        • akaPatience

          I agree Diana. Plus, I’ve always felt that if Oswald didn’t do it, why did he kill Ofc.Tibbets immediately afterwards?

          Just as with Lincoln’s assassination, I think such conspiracy theories abound because people have a hard time accepting the fact that it’s possible for one crazy little person to take down a giant.

          • DianaLC

            Mental illness is the problem. Unfortunately, we deal with people every day who may be on the edge of doing something incredibly evil.

      • harvey

        Ruby was from Chicago and that alone speaks volumes about his character as far as crooks go. As for Oswald all the information on his shooting ability is from the US Marine Corps. He fired a 191 at El Toro Calif. one point above qualification. That was for marksman. He also in another year (boot training) fired a 212 for sharpshooter. The ranges at that time were 200-300-and 500 yards. His possible highest score would have been 250. Expert rifleman was 220 and over. Those ranges are from 1963 and the last account I had.
        But if Kennedy had a 7cm hole in the back of his skull he was not hit with a 6.5 caliber w/a 160 grain full metal jacket round. That calber and weight round w/FMJ would leave an exit wound only slightly larger than the round itself.
        The mafia will work for anyone as long as there is enough money involved. Wouldn’t surprise me if LB Johnson wasn’t the head man in the Kennedy assassination. He was a no good jerk.

        • KlugerRD

          LBJ was a political SOB but I would have reservations that he would have engaged in something like this. The mob had excellent reason to go after the Kennedys. First of course was the the fact that they were going after them after being asked to help them. If you recall Bobby was most famous for going after Hoffa as well as the mob – and Bobby was aggressively going after them.

          The other reason could be Cuba. Cuba was the home of the mob until Castro and one of the outcomes of the Cuban Missile Crisis was the agreement that the U.S. would NEVER go after Castro and invade Cuba. Which is why any thought of Castro being complicit in Kennedy’s assassination was ridiculous since Castro no longer had anything to gain.

          I always had a problem with Oswald being the shooter or at least the only shooter for the reasons you just cited.

          • Deapster

            Good reminder about Cuba. Lots of loose ends here that make sense, at least about Ruby and what the heck was the mafia role, even if it was exploiting the “lone gunman”.

            • KlugerRD

              Ruby not only knew Sam Giancana. he also knew Santo Traifficante from Ruby’s trips to Cuba (pre-Castro).

              Only conjecture, but once an order was put out on this someone hatched a plan to get someone who would want to do it and would have zero connection to the organization. The MO is the same for Oswald as for Sirhan Sirhan – no connection to the organization at all and both disgruntled individuals who were both politically motivated.

        • binky354

          FYI – Robert Morrow has collected a lot of information/research that leads to LBJ as being behind the assassination. Here’s one link, there are more:

          http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Lyndon-Johnson-and-the-JFK-by-Robert-Morrow-130802-675.html

  • akaPatience

    Okay, my JFK fanatic husband, who’s read, seen, and heard just about everything regarding the assassination, told me today there have already been books/articles that posited the Secret Service Shot theory. I have to admit I’d long ago reached the point where I pretend to listen to his JFK assassination pronouncements, so I guess I missed this one.

    • DianaLC

      I won’t even begin to tell you the number of freshmen research papers I’ve had to read about conspiracy theories. I allowed them, mostly because they did have to learn how to find materials in the databases and library. AND…here’s the big thing, they had to make sure they wrote on the counter arguments.
      The only types of this popular research I didn’t allow are, for instance, those silly women in my evening classes who wanted to argue that Elvis was not dead in their papers. I pointed out to them that the only research they could use for such a paper that would be on their side of the issue came from supermarket checkout stands, and that was just not acceptable on their bibliographies.

      • Deapster

        Wow, what era students are you talking about?

        • DianaLC

          I am talking about the years I taught the required freshmen research paper courses and the freshmen essay courses as an adjunct professor at several colleges and universities. This was mostly in the nineties. I had a few older “non-traditional” students in those courses, Those are the ones who wanted to do the Elvis research. Mostly it was nerdish boys who wanted to do the Kennedy research.

      • DianaLC

        By the way and OT sort of—-if you want to watch a hilarious movie that includes Elvis conspiracy theory with Kennedy conspiracy theory, you have to find “Bubba Ho Tep.” I mean it, It’s one of the most hilarious movies I’ve ever seen. Bruce Campbell is in the role of Elvis, and Ossie Davis (yes, a Black Man) plays Jack (Kennedy).
        Have fun this weekend–find that movie and have more laughs than you’ve had for a long time.

        • S7teen70six

          Wow, thanks for the memories. It’s one of the best movies I think I’ve seen. Outrageously hilarious.

  • Dave L.

    I have it on good information that the cousin of a co-worker’s sister’s uncle’s best friend’s son-in-law’s niece’s
    hairdresser’s neighbor’s ex-boyfriend’s oldest nephew. did the shooting. He was later killed by George HW Bush when he led the CIA. The preceeding was of course Tongue-in-Cheek !! Have to use a disclaimer there, so that someone doesn’t believe what I just wrote. I was 19 and in the Navy at the time of Kennedy’s death, the one thing that I remember was my civics teacher recording each and every debate on a reel to reel tape recorder. We then had to discuss the debates for weeks before the election. The one major thing that sticks out in my mind was Kennedy’s faith. I actually heard people say,” If he is elected, the pope will be running the country”. To this day I have never forgotten that bit of lunacy.

    • S7teen70six

      I remember the Catholic argument. My best friend and next door neighbor at the time was Catholic and it presented issues neither of us understood. But, lest we forget, there were some not so long ago making a similar argument about Mitt Romney’s faith. Many from the same political party, as I recall.

      • DianaLC

        I remember how some of the Catholic students in our small school would choose the homemade pizza on Fridays that had the meat on it instead of just cheese and claim it didn’t matter that they ate meat on Friday (remember meatless Fridays?) since all they had to do was go to confession.
        I figured if the doctrine of their church at the time was loose enough to accept that, we could certainly have a Catholic President and the church would not be a problem.
        I have since developed a much greater respect for Catholic doctrine and symbolism and practice, though I can’t make myself leave the church of my parents. I love the entire idea of Christianity.

        • S7teen70six

          I am by nature a very accepting person, quite capable of welcoming a diversity of viewpoints and opinions. Where I draw the line is when people have such a distorted viewpoint of their own chosen religion that they believe theirs is right above everyone else.

          I have a niece and a nephew that both married Catholics. And both were told by their spouse that they had to convert to the Catholic faith or their children’s baptisms would be null and void and they would be damned to hell. I have no idea where people get such ridiculous notions and it has made accepting my relatives very difficult. But since my nephew and niece are willingly converting I consider it their own business despite my personal feelings. Still, I find the whole experience rather bizarre.

          • DianaLC

            I agree on this. Doctrine is man-made. In some cases, it does seemed inspired by God, but in others not so much.

    • KenoshaMarge

      As a Catholic I also remember seeing quarters with red nail polish turning George Washington into what was supposed to be either the Pope or a Cardinal. Not the first time I had run into religious intolerance, in and out of my own church, but as you say, it left an impression that lingers some 50+ years later.

      • Dave L.

        I had forgotten seeing those, good one !

      • DianaLC

        Crazy how concerns about what was politically acceptable or not in those days were so very different from what is or is not o.k. now for candidates.
        I even remember that Nelson Rockefeller’s wife “Happy” was a source of controversy because when he married her, she was a divorced woman. As Vice President, some thought the fact that she had been divorced would be an albatross around his political neck.

    • Deapster

      Ah yes, since the Pope was infallible the concern was Kennedy would have to follow the wishes of the Pope before anything else.

    • http://noquarterusa.net Larry Johnson

      You too funny.

  • DianaLC

    Here are my memories of JFK. I was in eighth grade during his campaign. My best friend and I served as his campaign managers for the mock election. (We knew nothing about politics really at that age, but we sure liked Jackie’s style.) We watched those debates with a pasty-faced Nixon on a television that had been brought from home by our history teacher. It was all about Kennedy’s more youthful appearance.
    We lived in a conservative town. Most of our parents were Republican, but in school Kennedy won.
    For a teenager, by the time Kennedy was assassinated it seemed as if a long, long time had passed since the election. We had all loved the inaugural address. Read it, It still can inspire. Whether he wrote it himself or not, it’s his in the minds of most. I knew people who went off to serve in the Peace Corps.
    I was by the time of his assassination in a different school, as my parents with the help of one of teachers felt we needed to be in a more rigorous academic school. I was in the laboratory school for the nearby teacher’s college. I was in my sophomore Algebra II class. We had the best math teacher ever, so we were listening to one of his explanations, which he usually followed with a silly math joke that really was funny. Suddenly the intercom came on. (In those days having an intercom was a mark of being in a NEW school building.) We thought the principal’s secretary had simply slipped and didn’t know it was on because it was obviously a radio program. So we continued with class thinking someone would go to tell her. But then the student closest to the speaker spoke up and said that he thought we were really meant to hear it.
    Our annual boys’ association dance scheduled for the next night was postponed. Most of us spent the rest of the next few days watching t.v. The images of Jackie walking with those two little toddlers in the funeral procession are still clear in my mind.
    I’ve never cared about the conspiracies. To me still it was a twisted Marxism that was the cause of his assassination.
    Here’s a creepy memory. I had my arm twisted by a friend to double date with her and her mental boyfriend because he wouldn’t go out with her unless she found a friend for his friend. He really was mental. We all were parked on the hill overlooking town talking, when her boyfriend reached across her and pulled a gun from the glove compartment. I’ve always been a little detached from the physical world, and I remember thinking to myself that I really wasn’t that worried about dying myself, but I didn’t want my friend’s brains to land in my hands like Jack’s did for Jackie.
    From then on the philandering of the Kennedy brothers, the Onassis years for Jackie, etc., and all the other stories about their supposedly “real” relationship were printed and broadcast. I’ve read over and over the different views of the three years of Kennedy’s presidency and of his legacy.
    Larry, there was a television program the night after I watched the show based on O’Reilly’s book. It did cover the friendly fire theory, but dismissed it.
    In any case, whether it did happen that friendly fire was the actual cause of death, the motivation for the whole episode still remains in my mind a mentally disturbed Marxist’s desire for fame.
    We’re back to where we are now. With the Columbine shooting, the theater shooting, Sandy Hood, the AZ shooting, and on and on. We’re left with this metaphorical cancerous tumor in society–mentally deranged people.
    Right now I am most worried that the tumor has metastasized and taken over the entire D.C. area–Congress, the MSM.
    What happened during the Kennedy years is now history, as they say. The mental problems that might have been involved in that assassination have grown in our country, and I am left with praying and leaving it to God.

    • Madame_deFarge

      I’m afraid without an image of that agent raising his rifle no other story will ever seem real. It’s been re-lived for so many years most of us have to stop and think to realize that it was a film showing the killing rather that our being there live.

      Yes, we know now about the Kennedys but then we believed what we were told for the most part. Who the heck would have questioned Ike? Politicians were protected regardless of party then. Rumors that Ike carried on an affair with his aide were just that. To us he was a hero who, as my Grandmother always said, “brought the boys home”. I suppose leaving out scandalous details could have been OK in one sense but it did give rise to the cover-up the press have indulged in with Obama which has made him a totally different person with a harmful agenda for the country.

  • ME

    I wonder why the JFK conspiracy theories persist? What motivates us to keep wanting answers?
    This friendly fire thing is actually one of the more intelligent theories. It’s quite plausible. Makes a lot of sense. I had to laugh the other day, somebody from the secret service got caught dinking around again. This poor President (and I say that with bitter cynicism,) sure has problems. That at least is amusing secret service behavior. I’d hate to be someone who accidentally hurt people with friendly fire. Heat of the moment and stuff happens, but still, that would be tough to live with.

    • Deapster

      Chaos seeks order.

  • S7teen70six

    I vividly remember the assassination, Walter Cronkite’s announcement, Jack Ruby killing Oswald on national television and the funeral precession.

    It was such a different world then. We had a media that actually covered the news. But we also had a media that glamorized the Kennedys with that Camelot nonsense and covered up a lot of his infidelities. So I guess things haven’t changed that much.

    But after all these years I have grown bored with all this talk about JFK. He did some good things, no doubt. And he may have done even greater things. But that is mere supposition. A myth. Something people want to believe to make up for the horrible truth that he was assassinated during our lifetime and while in office.

    His greatest legacy is the Civil Rights Bill. And Dhimmicrats like to use that as proof that they did something the Republicans either could or would not. But the truth is exactly the opposite of that. Because Kennedy only reluctantly embraced Civil Rights. And if not for the persistent efforts of his brother he may not have ever embraced it. In fact, when Kennedy was a Senator during Eisenhower’s presidency he actually voted against civil rights legislation proposed by the Republicans, the only party that had stood and fought for civil rights all along.

    So yeah, I have some good memories of Kennedy. He definitely inspired me as a young lad. But it takes the mentality of a very young person to be gullible enough to accept a lot of the nonsense lies that have become a part of his myth. Lies enshrined as truth by the Dhimmicrat party.

  • KenoshaMarge

    I wasn’t old enough to vote for JFK, but I would have. I didn’t know much about politics except that I liked his quick wit and his news conferences were actually entertaining. No slobbering presstitutes either.

    I have watched and listened to many of the conspiracy theories over the years and concluded, in my own mind, that most were bullshit. I have always thought that Oswald did it.
    In this new theory it seems he tried to do it and without the help of shit happening he would most likely have been wounded, like Reagan, and lived to have enough of a record to be judged on. Mostly over the last 50 years he’s been worshipped for “Camelot”, what juvenile bullshit, and for being assassinated.

    He was a serial adulterer. I don’t like people like that. Him and Clinton tarnished their office with their sexcapades.

    But if anyone can watch some of the old Kennedy press conferences and still pretend to believe that Obama is the smartest president ever they are nitwits.

    • S7teen70six

      For all his faults Kennedy was the real deal. Obama, on the other hand, is an actor. He pretends to care, to be intelligent, to be inspirational. He plays a role, a part. A lie.

      • KenoshaMarge

        He isn’t all that good of an actor in that he failed to convince so many of us to slobber at his feet.

    • Shelly Cain

      Several Presidents, of both parties, had mistresses on the side. Kennedy was not the first. Was Kennedy flawed as a human being? Of course. Name one perfect President. Heck, Woodrow Wilson, a democrat, was an unabashed racist and a supporter of the KKK. The two presidents I saw personally were Nixon, who waved at us from the steps of the WH, and Reagan who saluted me as he drove by.

      Unfortunately we judge our leaders at times by standards even we Americans could not achieve.

      I served my country and live with the scars. So did many others so I’m nothing special.

      The feeling I get from Obama is that he doesn’t like America very much. Remember he referred to black Americans as mongrels. Think of the outcry had a white president said that. There would have been protests in the streets.

      I don’t trust Obama as a leader. There is more conflict between groups of Americans than there has been for decades.

      We are no longer We The People. We managed to put aside our differences to end the scourge of slavery, gender discrimination, and legal apartheid.

      Maybe, just maybe, we can find that common ground again.

  • chrissy

    I don’t believe it. I didn’t watch any news yesterday. I saw the Kennedy assassination up close and personal like everyone my age back in 1963. Television brought everything into your home back then. I remember it getting quiet. Even in my little town, traffic stopped, stores, and schools closed, it was so quiet. It was like the Cuban missile crisis…..everyone on tippy toes.

    The problem with all these conspiracy theories: The same problem as with Capone’s vault.

    You would think with all the tech stuff we have nowadays they could figure out what really happened. And stop locking up reports etc. for 50 or 100 years.

  • HELENK2

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/22/whats-in-cias-secret-jfk-files/

    OK Larry what is hidden in the CIA super duper safe about this ?

  • akaPatience

    Whoa, that certainly IS a provocative theory. Yowza.
    I recently watched a NOVA episode in which the evidence was yet again analyzed. I also recall a NOVA episode many years ago, narrated by Walter Cronkite, that did the same thing. Both concluded Oswald was the shooter, except the most recent version of course employed much more advanced and sophisticated technology in its analysis. Boy, I’d really like to watch it again because it went into great detail about the full metal jacket bullets used by Oswald. I hope I can find it online because I thought it reported that the only bullet that wasn’t found was the one Oswald fired that missed his target. Hmm… that bit of info was one detail I found strangely incredible. I thought to myself that there’s no way in hell they couldn’t have found that bullet if they truly tried — it’s not as though the search area would’ve been all that large…
    Another thing: I remember, way back when, it was said certain files concerning the assassination would remain sealed for 50 years. But according to what I’ve heard recently, apparently there are STILL files that remain sealed. Hmm…
    I have to admit I’ve been suffering lately from JFK burnout (WAY too much programming about him IMO), but now I think I may have to buy the book!!! Jeez, will it never end?!?!

    • 3seven77

      I saw that program as well. It was called “Cold Case JFK” and it was on Nova. Here’s a link to the video: video.pbs.org/video/2365118537

      • akaPatience

        Hey, thanks!

  • Madame_deFarge

    It was my birthday and my boyfriend and I were on our way to celebrate in Reno. He was a ‘moderate’ Republican attorney and I was from an FDR Democrat family. JFK was the first President I voted for. BF used to make me mad as Hell talking about JFK’s infidelities which I dismissed as flat out lies and jealousy. We didn’t turn around and go home but I was in front of the TV in the hotel room all weekend while he gambled. I remember vividly seeing Jack Ruby shoot Oswald. The entire horror was the first historic event I remember unfolding live in front of the whole country. Sunday when we returned to the Bay Area I spent most of the next few days at my parents house where we watched non-stop the funeral and all the news reports. People wanted to be with those closest. We cried as if he was a member of the family. Young women of my generation had begun to emulate Jackie’s fashion and style and she remained our icon for many years…until she married Onasis. Everyone I knew felt betrayed by her then. That weekend has never faded away for me. That’s the birthday that always comes back.
    With everything we’ve learned about the Kennedys since it is still one of the saddest events of my lifetime. It stands as a line of demarcation for all that has come since. Life wad never the same.

    • akaPatience

      Seeing Jack Ruby shoot Oswald TOTALLY blew me away. I’d never seen anything like it before in my life! My brother and I were the only ones watching TV at the time and our parents rushed into the room at the sound of our screams.
      Now that you mention it, you’re right — when Jackie Kennedy married Onassis it was a stunning revelation to discover she was basically a… gold digger. It really knocked her off the pedestal the nation had placed her upon.

      • Deapster

        Onassis said he would buy her privacy. I think this was his winning argument.

    • S7teen70six

      A belated Happy Birthday!

    • foxyladi14

      Happy Birthday!

  • HELENK2

    If we did find out who Killed JFK and why,would it change anything 50 years later? If it was Johnson , he is dead and we can not change what he did while in office. If it was Castro it changed nothing on our relations with Cuba, 50 years later maybe there will be some kind of relationship with Cuba. If it was the Mafia most of them are dead and out of business. If it was Russia you do not think Putin will admit it. IF it was a Secret Service agent the rest of his life had to be ruined.
    Other than curiosity being satisfied what would it change?

    If we found the answers back when it happened it would have made a great difference in a lot of things

  • HELENK2

    JFK was the first president I ever voted for. Was he perfect NO, but who is? Did he love the country? without a doubt.Did he make us think we could be better than we thought we could be Yes. his idea of going to the moon inspired generations. His idea of what could you do for the country, not what the country can do for you is something that has been lost over a couple of generations. I really wish the younger generation could have a person that inspires them to be more, not less

    • akaPatience

      Amen. I was just a little girl when he was elected. In art class, we were asked to select a favorite saying to write in calligraphy. I chose “Ask not…”. I try to live by the Golden Rule, and that quote.

    • KenoshaMarge

      I think he inspired a lot of people and for that he deserves great credit.

      He sent men to the moon – our current doofus all but shut down the space agency and our astranauts now have to hitch a ride with the Russians. How sad is that?

      I am no longer a Democrat but if Jack Kennedy was in office I might be. Because aside from his personal failings as a man and a husband, he was head and shoulders above the POTUS we now have.

      http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/131121kennedyRGB20131121102742.jpg

      • S7teen70six

        I don’t care who gains the nomination for the Dhimmicrat party. I will not support or join, give comfort, aid or abet them under any circumstances. They are a party of liars, thieves and scoundrels. And I won’t lift a finger to help them in any manner.

        • ME

          Amen to that.

          • S7teen70six

            Case in point. Liberal asshole Tom Brokaw rewriting history on (where else?) MSLSD.

            We didn’t have the network up at KMTV because NBC would give back a local station one hour of midday programming. I ran down, there was a garden show on the air. So I put it on over the garden show and then did that a couple of times. And this was unusual but it was not unheard of. As I came running out of the announce booth the chief engineer – with whom I didn’t get along very well. A really curmudgeonly guy, old, kind of a gnarly guy – and he said, “What happened?” And I said, “Kennedy was shot.” And he said , “About time somebody shot that S.O.B.” That was heard in other places, mostly in the conservative states. But he was, that was reflecting his real feeling, and they had to peel me away from him. I then ran back up and continued to work.

            • Justine00

              Since Brokaw was in one place, how does he come up with “mostly conservative states”? I think Brokaw is out of the loop, and is trying to use remembering Kennedy’s murder to get back in the spotlight again. Sick.
              .

        • foxyladi14

          me either vote em all out and most of the others too.

    • 0getfitnow1

      I remember President Kennedy promoting fitness. (he beat you to the bunch Moochelle). Anyway, during the presidents’ holiday weekend (back then, it was probably Lincoln or Washington’s birthday), a local SF radio station sponsored a 50 mile walk. Organizations across the country did it. Two friends and I did it. They came and spent the night with me, and my grandmother drove us to UC Santa Clara. The show time was 6 am. The walk was down the Embarcadero from the university to the Mark Hopkins Hotel on Nob Hill in SF. It took us 14 hours. Some got there before us and lots behind us, but i don’t recall any emergencies of any kind. There were vans shadowing the walkers in case someone needed to hitch a ride. We even saw walkers, who just couldn’t take another step, hop on city buses. It was just good, clean, healthy fun. I can’t remember how many participated, but it was many hundreds.

      BTW, I had to wear slippers for several days. Back then, we didn’t have “athletic” shoes.

      • DianaLC

        If you read the speech he was going to give in Dallas, he pushed the HUMANITIES as something as important at science, math and technology. He truly felt we needed poets and philosophers as much as we needed scientists, business leaders, etc.
        I started my English teaching career under that influence, and teaching of English was a calling. Classroom discussions were exciting.
        By the time I sat in the graduate seminar being taught by the Marxist chairman of our top university in CO, I resorted to writing my class paper about that dream of Kennedy’s. His whole purpose and the purpose of the text book he used was to deny that there was a “Marxist social agenda” in the schools while continuing to push Marxist theory onto the slobbering mindless grad students in the room.
        I went into the library and found all the writings of the people who influenced me as a young teacher about the importance of a good education in the humanities. My paper’s thesis was that there HAD BEEN at one time a definite social agenda for teaching in the public schools and it was to create thinkers.
        It was telling to me that he spent some time in class bemoaning the fact that the departments of science and math and business got all the recognition and money on campus. (They had, after all some Nobel prize winners in their fields.) The Arts and Humanities on campus were getting short shrift as far as he was concerned. In my mind, they needed to get it since Arts and Humanities had been taken over by the Post Modern deconstructionists and Marxists idiots.
        I realized I didn’t belong on that campus.

  • HELENK2

    I had just ran to the corner store for milk, when the announcement came over the radio. I came home and called my husband. The feeling of sadness was overwhelming. The was the president who was making the country in to a better place, He was young for a president and made us believe in a great future after a world war and Korea. We were going to the moon in my lifetime because he believed, we believed. We could win
    against Communism, because he understood the danger of it and so did we.He made us believe we could climb mountains and as a country do great things. As a rich country we had an obligation to help countries not so
    fortunate and we did.
    The fear and unbelief when the announcement came over the radio was also part of my feelings. Who would do such a thing? was it an act of war? What would happen to the country?

    I do believe the country would have been so much better off with him at the head. If he had been allowed to serve as president for 8 years and then be an adviser the country would have gone in a different direction.

    Would President Kennedy fit into today’s democratic party NO. but would the democratic party gone off on such a bad road it he had lived? Doubt it.

    here is an article on President Kennedy and his beliefs a long way away from today’s democratic party

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/11/john_f_kennedy_conservative.html

    • akaPatience

      I also remember his Physical Fitness Program. My dad and I used to do exercises together!

  • Deapster

    The day JFK was shot defined as a life shattering, the world has changed forever event is primarily a generational vanity of the baby boomers. For others it is the day John Lennon was shot. And for my parents, the day FDR died. Shattering and life-changing too.

    Yes, I remember the day 50 years ago quite vividly on the UC Berkeley campus when our Abnormal Psych prof waved a far right screed about wanting to kill JFK like a dog, and claimed as long as the far right could print stuff like this, this is what to expect would happen. And then he stomped off.

    He never revisited the subject when he learned later it was a far left communist who did the dirty deed. But our impressionable minds were scarred by his anti-right diatribe and that did change our lives forever.

    • akaPatience

      Berkeley::some things never change

      • Deapster

        Little did I know at the time, merely content being Betty Coed in those days.

        But I also remember having all youthful underpinnings about religion and authority undermined in our Freshman english classes, leading to tremendous rows with my parents during home visits since my new Berkeley profs had removed the scales from my smug middle class existence……. unbeknownst at the time I was also letting them substitute their authoritarian views as my new religion.

        I was at Berkeley in the 1960′s when the world changed in what seemed like and instant and I had feet on both sides of the vast generational divide. Mentally schizophrenic ever since.

        • akaPatience

          I think those of us old enough to have lived through such a transitional time as it was back then are very lucky. Nothing beats actually being there.

    • ME

      I wasn’t quite born when JFK was killed, but I grew up hearing about the vast right wing conspiracy that allegedly killed him. It’s good in a way that I was lied to so often, because I developed a pretty sharp BS detector. LOL, some of the crap coming out of Berkeley was and is so over the top I’m not sure whether to laugh or back away slowly.

      • Deapster

        Wow, where did you get the vast right wing conspiracy theories, though a compelling case could be made that Nixon was the primary beneficiary of the turn of events that followed and somehow he was always lurking around pivotal moments in the history of that era.

    • Madame_deFarge

      I suppose any event of such shock and with so many attendant unanswered questions qualifies as life changing. In truth seeing a President killed (later in the Zapruter film) was a lot heavier than ‘generational vanity’. In my experience that was when cynicism set in for all generations of Americans. We didn’t believe the stories about his pecadillos, lived their style and elegance; for all Jackie’s manufacture if the Camelot BS it was a time when we wanted to be more refined, manners and language counted, Julia Child was teaching us how to prepare French cousine. When Johnson took over he accelerated everything that was negative and it began very quickly. As right as it was to pass the Civil Rights Act, the ugly way he implemented it has brought us to the land of unintended consequences today. Black families were torn apart by his welfare plans; prior to the Johnson era welfare was shameful to mist

      • Madame_deFarge

        An aside..I sure wish NQ could use a more mobile friendly version of Disquis that would allow edits. Oh well, you know what I mean…

        • nickoury

          I do not use a mobile device but find the Disqus auto pop-up arrow window totally annoying and wish they would make it optional. Does that feature also appear on other devices?

      • Deapster

        Excellent insights.

      • foxyladi14

        indeed