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Ukraine Ain’t Our Fight

Enough of the East versus West horseshit. I spent a good portion of my life living under the cloud of a Cold War that, with the benefit of hindsight, was unnecessary and a waste of money and human life. Now, having learned nothing from the past 50 years, we appear hell bent on meddling in the internal affairs of Ukraine. The current President, Yanukovich, was elected in a free, open election.

But what is the policy of the United States? Without an election and under the coercion of guns and Molotov cocktails, Yanukovich is supposed to step down and let the opposition take over. Really?

So, by that logic, if we can get the streets of Washington on fire and have Obama kill 100 Tea Party protests, then Obama must go?

Is that the road we want to go down?

While I think Obama is a terrible President and a threat to the security and welfare of America, the place to get rid of him is at the ballot box, not the ammo box. This does not mean there is not a time and place for armed revolution, but we are not at that point in America.

We have no interest and no right to interfere in the Ukraine. There is talk of putting a NATO base in the Ukraine? Such a move is an unnecessary provocation against Russia. We act surprised that Russia bristles at the idea. Really? And what would Americans do if the Russians moved to set up a military base with offensive capabilities in Mexico or Canada? Wake the hell up.

We need to mind our own damn business.

  • BannedAgain15

    more schizophrenia from Larry Johnson.

    In the post above he is saying: “Now, having learned nothing from the past 50 years, we appear hell bent on meddling in the internal affairs of Ukraine.” “We have no interest and no right to interfere in the Ukraine. ” “We need to mind our own damn business.”

    And in his previous post he says Obama’s response to the Ukraine is as weak as a mouse fart.

    So which is it Larry Johnson, should we be having a strong response to what is happening in the Ukraine or should we not be meddling in the internal affairs of the Ukraine?

    “was elected in a free, open election.”

    Really? What planet do you live on? Yushchenko put his opposition in jail or poisoned them. I suppose you thought the elections in Russia were free and open elections. We see what you are all about Larry Johnson.

    “The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe sent 563 election observers to the Ukraine, and their allegations run the gamut from voter intimidation to ballot-box stuffing.”

  • wyntre

    O/T but relevant to much that is discussed here.
    Check the diagrams!

    Must-read.

    H/T
    HA

    How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

    By Glenn Greenwald

    “Government plans to monitor and influence internet communications, and covertly infiltrate online communities in order to sow dissension and disseminate false information, have long been the source of
    speculation. Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviser and the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a
    controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.

    Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government. Ironically, the very same Sunstein was recently named by Obama to serve as a member of the NSA review
    panel created by the White House, one that – while disputing key NSA claims – proceeded to propose many
    cosmetic reforms to the agency’s powers (most of which were ignored by the President who appointed them).

    “But these GCHQ documents are the first to prove that a
    major western government is using some of the most controversial techniques to disseminate deception online and harm the reputations of targets. Under the
    tactics they use, the state is deliberately spreading lies on the internet
    about whichever individuals it targets, including the use of what GCHQ itself calls “false flag operations” and emails to people’s families and friends. Who would possibly trust a government to exercise these powers at all, let alone do so in secret, with virtually no oversight, and outside of any cognizable legal framework?”

    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

  • Savannahlawyer

    Although my sympathies lie with the Ukrainian people in the western part of the country (my paternal grandmother’s parents came here after WWI/revolution), we should stay out of the whole mess. The whole country’s history is of one group or another laying claim to the land – Russia and Poland come to mind. Russia also has its Black Sea Fleet in the Crimea and Russia, historically, likes warm water ports. Plus, Russia believes it is the big brother to all the other little Slavs. In short, there is no compelling national interest for us to have the Obama administration get played by Putin over the Ukraine. So, naturally, we’re probably going to stick our noses deeper into it.

  • Deapster

    Choke. I could barely get past the first line. WP is “surprised” at the level of Soros lobbying dollars:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/soros-group-triples-its-lobbying-spending/2014/02/23/c9af9f8e-9a33-11e3-b88d-f36c07223d88_print.html

  • HELENK2
    • Deapster

      There is a novel idea: boots on the ground observing first hand, instead of the Soros Sister cabal in the WH making foreign policy on the fly.

  • HELENK2

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/02/23/ukraine-united-states-russia/

    Canada threatens sanctions if Russia sends troops to Ukraine
    backtrack bunch warns Russia against it

  • ME

    “We need to mind our own damn business”
    Being a bit sarcastic here, but the Obama administration is just crushing people on the domestic front. I really wish they’d go “help” somebody else. Go fix the Ukraine, Syria, whatever, just stop trying to fix America.

    • Deapster

      Not sure I agree. I was hoping Obama would fix Los Angeles, Oakland and/or San Francisco. Progressivism run amok.

      Far more third world problems right under his own nose domestically that have grown only worse under his incompetent administration.

  • HELENK2
  • HELENK2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26327211

    Russia steps up Ukraine rhetoric

  • HELENK2

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/24/egyptian-government-unexpectedly-resigns/

    what is going on in Egypt? government steps down

    we get stuck with a weak load of a backtrack bunch government and it seems as if the whole world is blowing up.

    • stodghie

      their guy is running for president. rest assured they’ll be watching and i am sure they will see to it their candidate gets in.

  • HARP2

    Barry gonna show Russia more of his flexibility ?

  • KlugerRD

    Even if someone made the argument that the U.S. has a moral obligation to get involved in Ukraine, Obama has made it impossible for the U.S. to have any say in the matter because of a complete lack of credibility.

    Putin is going to settle this and in a way that does not inhibit Russia’s relationship with Ukraine but allowed engagement with the E.U.

    • Deapster

      What is so wrong with bifurcating this into West Ukraine and East Ukraine? “Can’t we all just get along” is not good national policy.

      • KlugerRD

        “bifurcating this into West Ukraine and East Ukraine”

        ???

  • HELENK2

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2014/02/24/in-ukraine-new-leaders-face-skepticism-and-challenges-inside-and-outside-of-kyiv/

    in Ukraine new leaders face skepticism and challenges inside and outside Kiev

  • HELENK2

    http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/02/24/gallup-first-time-more-americans-think-president-barack-obama-not-respected-other-world

    more Americans think backtrack is not repected by other world leaders.

    YA THINK???????

  • HELENK2
  • HELENK2
    • Dave L.

      This moron in the White House, has seen to it that we are not respected anywhere in the entire world !!

      • Deapster

        Irrelevance is even more damaging then disrespect. More of the world is finding we are no longer even relevant as concentrated market forces emerge elsewhere.

  • HELENK2
  • HELENK2
  • HELENK2

    http://freebeacon.com/ukraines-fugitive-president-wanted-for-mass-murder/

    Ukraines fugitive president wanted for mass murder

  • foxyladi14

    Sadly we meddle when we should leave them alone.

  • HELENK2
  • KlugerRD

    “So, by that logic, if we can get the streets of Washington on fire and have Obama kill 100 Tea Party protests, then Obama must go?”

    Well, maybe this one time we can – and should.

  • HARP2

    I read this somewhere a long time ago.

    —————————————————————-

    “Do you know how to catch wild pigs?”

    “You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

    The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the
    gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd.

    Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.”

    The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

    • DianaLC

      And it’s easy to blame the amorphous “government.” I agree with this concern about growing government. But having worked in a quasi government job as a teacher, I mostly feel saddened by the people who work for government and who protect their jobs at all cost to their consciences. I saw it in working for a big company also. People buy in to the idea that they have to go along to get along, and few stop to stand up and say, “This is wrong.”
      I never fit it because I would do that–stand up and tell truth to power. People were often sort of afraid to be seen with me at work. Some of my best lifelong friends are those people who did stand by me, though we haven’t worked together for a long time.
      Once I did it by writing a letter to the town newspaper to explain my feelings about the school board refusing to hear 300 students and their parents because they (the school board) had backed a vindictive nasty principal over an issue. I was told I would be run out of town on a rail if the letter was printed. I said it would be an honor if that was the type of town I worked for. Instead, after the letter was printed the other teachers pulled me into dark corners so they wouldn’t be seen with me to tell me they supported me. They voted me as school rep to the local NEA when I was absent from a faculty meeting doing my cheerleader advisor duties. I was unimpressed because I knew the NEA was a stooge for administration.
      I spoke up to the Director of Quality Assurance in a large corporation when I worked as a technical writer because he was being a total “junior high” jerk acting like the other divisions of the company were enemies or something. Everyone in that meeting sucked in their collective breath, but he instead looked at me and agreed.
      I could name other incidents. But the point is that people are in general sheep, or caged wild pigs, afraid to think individually and do what they have been brought up to do–the right thing–then it comes to worrying about their jobs.

      • foxyladi14

        Works every time too.

      • Deapster

        Brava, Diana.

    • KenoshaMarge

      Perfect, and frightening, analogy.

    • wyntre

      Wow. I am copying this.

  • KenoshaMarge

    The problem I see, and granted it is only from my own little perspective, is that the Republicans will be beating the war drums, because they always do and to try to show Obama as weak. And the Dems will mostly be beating their own war drumbs to show their president is weak and to poke a finger in Putin’s eye.
    McCain and Graham will once again scurry to the nearest microphone the U.S. attack someone.
    IMHO since we can’t solve our own problems it is best we keep our damn noses our of other people’s problem. We cannot be the police and/or firemen for the world.

  • S7teen70six

    There are not 17 minutes and 32 seconds I am willing to devote to listening to this lying POS. The mere sight (and reminder) of her is revolting.

    Apparently Ukraine has been our fight for quite some time now. Even though we have to pretend otherwise and send out this boob again. Surely another awful movie is lurking right around the corner.

    • KenoshaMarge

      Once you know that someone is a serial liar, why on earth would you pay attention to anything they have to say? This lying POS went on 5 different programs on one Sunday morning and lied. Nuff said about her credibility about anything.

  • Fred82

    Well,

    The Soviets set up bases in Cuba and gained a friendly regime in Nicaragua in addition to attempting to destabilizing Mexico in the hopes of setting up a Communist or other regime favorable to Soviet interests. We were rightly upset and did something about it.

    Hmmmmmm……

  • buckeyeman
    • DianaLC

      Thanks! It’s good to see very complex issues from as many different perspectives as possible.

  • HELENK2
    • Deapster

      Gosh, when was it that we were in Jordan for *only* advisory purposes with only a few US military personnel? Oh that’s right, just last Fall 2013.

  • http://table9chat.com/ Rose

    Thought you might be interested in this – and wondered what you thought of it… http://newsninja2012.com/viral-ukrainian-girl-grass-roots/ People have been calling this a ‘grass roots video’ – from Wayne Dupree/NewsNinja

    “I guess no one else noticed the professional lighting, make up, sound mixing and camera pans. It’s about as organic as Monsanto’s terminator corn. But, all that aside, after doing some more digging (aka: following the money), Paul Joseph Watson found out that the video was produced by the team behind A Whisper to a Roar, a documentary funded by Prince Moulay Hicham of Morocco. According to Watson:

    The “inspiration” behind the documentary was none other than Larry Diamond, a Council on Foreign Relations member. The Council on Foreign Relations is considered to be America’s “most influential foreign-policy think tank” and has deep connections with the U.S. State Department.

    Diamond has also worked closely with the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). The National Endowment for Democracy is considered to be the CIA’s “civilian arm” and has been deeply embroiled in innumerable instigated uprisings, attempted coups and acts of neo-colonial regime change since its creation in 1983, including the contrived 2004 “Orange Revolution” that brought US puppet Viktor Yushchenko to power in Ukraine.

    Larry Diamond also played an instrumental role in the Arab Spring under the auspices of the NED, a series of supposedly grass roots revolts that were in fact organized and managed by some of the most powerful western institutions on the planet.” http://www.infowars.com/exposed-ukrainian-protesters-backed-by-kony-2012-style-scam/ (Yes, I know, Infowars, but…)

  • Dave L.

    Obama, Rice and Costas, all have the IQ of a gnat ! Costas should retire, Obama and Rice should be indicted for gross stupidity and crimes against humanity. Neither Obama or Rice could tell the truth if you held a gun to their heads. We can’t even afford to pay attention, let alone get into another conflict !!

    • KenoshaMarge

      If Costas is so interested in politics then he should seek employment as a political reporter and quit masquerading as a sportscaster. He has a perfect right to his opinions – not the right to insert them into every sporting event he covers.
      Too bad Karma didn’t give the POS laryngitis instead of pink eye.

      • Deapster

        Costas was way off base injecting his huge political and unnecessary bias into the Olympics coverage. Too bad, because he is a decent sports reporter.

        The US injecting politics into the Moscow Olympics and the Eastern block retaliation later in Atlanta undermined the entire principles of the Olympics and stood ultimately for nothing other than a snitty hissy fit initiated by the US. Sorry, but that was a supercilious black mark on our behalf. Sound and fury, ultimately signifying nothing. Moving on now.

        • KenoshaMarge

          The politics and hate directed at Russia and thus at Sochi is disgusting. Oh no, we had to nit pick every thing as a way to get at Putin. Poor dear little media types that didn’t have all the amenities they are accustomed to. (Although I read that NBC took a Starbucks along with them.)
          As you say it undermines all that sport is supposed to be.
          For me once Costas insisted on inserting his particular ideology into sports he stopped being a “decent” anything.

        • S7teen70six

          At least Russia won the Olympics with 13 golds.

      • S7teen70six

        Yeah, but at least it saw fit to put his asshole where his mouth should be.

        • KenoshaMarge

          Gives a whole new meaning to diarrhea of the mouth.

  • elizabethrc

    With Obama’s fully exposed failures and inability to do the job Americans hired him to do, what else does he have but playing the bully. As usual, he’s no idea of the consequences (those things are just a bother to him, something not worthy of consideration) and he’ll be taking America into hell if he does interfere in the Ukraine. Obama talks about killing people. Putin kills people! Somebody please explain the difference to Barry.

    • Deapster

      As the Peter Principle long told us: he has risen to the level of his own incompetency. He was always a thug, got everything though an implied threat of violence if he did not. So acting like a street bully is as good as he will ever get. And look what in fact it did get him. (Unbelieveable!)

  • Popsmoke

    Wake up? More like grow up…

    • foxyladi14

      Too late Pop. He is stuck in the kiddy mode.

  • Deapster

    What countries intervene in our own domestic issues as aggressively as we do in theirs?

    The Latin America illegal immigration has certainly impacted our domestic politics, but this was not a public act by a head of another country. Ditto foreign militant extremists which are not officially acts of sovereign powers.

    Who officially comes after us with guns, tanks and dollars on our own home turf if we do things they don’t like, or if they do like it and want to see more of it.

    Anyone sending in the tanks to support the Tea Party to help overthrow Obama?

    I am trying to understand how it feels to have done to us what we have done unto them. McNamera’s first lesson from Vietnam: empathize with your enemy.

    I don’t mind using our military might to keep international sea lanes open. But taking sides in their domestic politics? 10,000 miles away Uh,oh.

  • wyntre

    Any time Susan Rice is the regime’s messenger you know things are going to end badly.

    I am furious dumb f**ks like her, the POS, Holder and Vlajar have been gifted our nation’s fate all in the name of white guilt liberalism.

    Sick. Of. It.

  • Deapster

    WSJ: Historian Niall Ferguson’s sees Obambi’s foreign policy as let’s all play nice, or else we will do nothing:

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303945704579391492993958448?mod=trending_now_2

    • KenoshaMarge

      Does let’s all play nice work even in kindergarten?

  • Deapster

    Gosh, does Obambi need to wag the dog …….. again.

    The Benghazi story must be close to breaking. First he used Syria to divert attention away from the Benghazi and IRS hearings. and was able to put a lid on both for a while.

    Now he is using the Ukraine as both Benghzhi and IRS are heating up again, and on top of the looming Obamacare March 31 deadline?

    Woof, woof. Someone call the SPCA. Animals are getting harmed in the movie Obama is trying to make of his life.

    • wyntre

      Oh, I hope you are right about Bengahzzi but I’m not gonna hold my breath.

      LSM will NOT unmask their horrific creation as it would hasten their own demise. Look at the Tonight Show usurper, a POS and MO suck-up if ever there was one. I think the network got rid of Leno at the POS’s insistence.I

      I just hope we can survive his regime.

      • Deapster

        Holding on to someone puts them on a short leash. Letting them go is when all the good stuff finally comes out.

        Leno ran fast and loose this last year because he knew he was getting out. Even Obama knowing he does not have to run again is also running fast and loose.

        Witness Mike Morrell “working” for a closely held HRC organization. He has the best job security in the world.

        BTW: who still makes up the late night show audiences these days – haven’t watched them in years myself. Too many other games in town now to compete for those wee small hours. Including sleep.

    • elizabethrc

      Obama’s facing the two neuterings, one in November 2014 and the other in 2016 when, after 3 more years of increasing messes and scandals he creates, he completely destroys the Democratic party.
      I wonder how many of his regulations and executive orders are repealed when he’s gone.

  • HELENK2

    http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2014/02/22/obama-foreign-policy-successes/

    backtrack’s foreign policy successes

    another reason to stay out of the Ukraine. Backtrack’s record is not too good

    • KenoshaMarge

      You mean that whole “leading from behind” schtick?

  • HELENK2

    brought this up from downstairs

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/02/good_news_and_bad_news_in_ukraine.html

    the good news and the bad news in the Ukraine.

    a lot to think about

  • buckeyeman

    Agree, the US should stay out of it, but Team Zero will no doubt find a way to muck it up. They were crowing and taking credit for the agreement that was brokered. Are they now going to take ‘credit’ for it falling apart in a day?

    I had an interesting conversation with my friend in Kiev a couple of days ago. Though he feels there is plenty of corruption in the Yanukovich government, he also felt that way about the previous government, and is not sympathetic to the ‘protest’. Outside forces instigated and buoyed this process, enabling it to get the traction it did. U.S. involvement by Team Zero will only make matters worse there.

    • buckeyeman

      Btw, congratulations to Russia and Putin for the fine job in hosting the Olympics. Glad there were no major problems. Good show.

      • Deapster

        Did you hear Bob Costas go off on a wild hare last night with the President of the IOOC? Demanded IOOC use the Olympics to condem Putin, Russia’s police state and lack of civil rights for gays.

        It was embarrassing because it was so one-dimensionally outrageous and accusatory. Then Costas asked when the IOOC was going to finally show the US some love, and select it for a future Olympics site.

        IOOC President gets a Gold Medal for impulse control. And Costas needed to get two black eyes to replace his previous red ones.

        Agree, the SOCHI Olympics have been pretty spectacular. Can hardly wait until the closing ceremonies because it looked like a good time was had by all. It was full of thrills, chills and spills.

        • buckeyeman

          No, did not hear Costas, but it sounds typical. I’ve only been able to watch sporadically, and have caught many events as replays. Yeah, lots of thrills and spills for sure. After seeing the cool opening ceremonies, I am going to try to catch the closing. The Russian friend I skype with has been working as a volunteer in Sochi, and has sent me some wonderful personal photos – a real treat. He was working for the Canadians, so I’m sure he had divided loyalties at times ; )

        • buckeyeman

          Also, the various gay athletes whose interviews I’ve read have all talked about how much of a non-issue this has been for them there. Said they’ve been treated wonderfully.

        • wyntre

          Hear Costas? I refuse to watch any NBC coverage and get my Olympic news from the web.

        • S7teen70six

          I thought I heard something directly implicating Putin for the unrest in Ukraine. Does anyone think it is a coincidence that all this is going on while Russia hosts the Olympics?

          • Justine00

            Not coincidental, but because Putin was involved (elsewhere) in Sochi? [I don't think it was Putin.]
            .

        • stodghie

          lol costas’ contract must be up for renewal. only on nbc can such nitwit behavior be showcased to such an extent.

      • wyntre

        And the Finale of the dancers with the last Olympic ring malfunctioning was brilliant.

  • Larchmonter445

    Putin will take care of business. The elites of the West and the West Ukraine want to deliver the 47 million Ukrainians to enslavement to the EU and IMF debt racket.

    There is no plan for the Ukraine but debt and taxes, diminishment of their farm exports and shutdown of their competitive manufacturing in the face of EU rules. They are delusional to think they will get help from the West.

    The strategy is clear. Pauperization while NATO gets more cannon fodder from the military in Ukraine.

    Putin will protect his gas pipelines, the Eastern sector Russian-speakers and Southern base for his navy.

    He will not sit back, count his Sochi gold medals and let the Ukraine be taken out of his sphere of operations.

    When the smoke clears, we’ll watch Putin operate.

    • Deapster

      There is so much rich farm land in this area, including Romania and Bulgaria and it is bleeding population and under-developing these natural resources.

      Post-communism transitions are not serving this part of the world well at all — particularly as so many former agrarian areas are now getting urbanized in other parts of the world.

    • stodghie

      putin first wanted olympics over and the nitwit press GONE.

  • beyond partisan

    OT – BTW, I just discovered that Disqus has removed counts for downvotes. Try downvoting this comment to see what happens. I just emailed them to complain and I suggest you do as well. It’s not a huge thing but it does give us more power in showing our disapproval to Obots. Maybe that’s why they took the ability away. Annoying.

    • KenoshaMarge

      Went and told them I don’t like not having down votes counted. It is the only way, other than having to interact with some damn troll to express disgust.

    • foxyladi14

      Everyone should complain.

  • beyond partisan

    Agree with your article, but I don’t think the NWO people give a rat’s ass if they take out America in their quest for global “progressive” government. They’d just as soon poke Putin in the eye and have him come over here and do their dirty work destroying America. In other words, I think they WANT war with Russia.

  • KenoshaMarge

    We need to mind our own damn business.

    I’ll drink to that!

    • Deapster

      isn’t that what Greta Susternan just said about Obama’s FCC thought police?

      • KenoshaMarge

        Yup. She said “mind your own business” to the FCC, which is the government which sadly is supposed to but seldom does represent the people.
        Notice the constant outrage from the media so as to drum up ratings. Where is the wall to wall coverage of the outrages in North Korea other than to talk about Dennis Rodman and his freak show?

    • Justine00

      Totally agree, Larry. (Notice how often protesters “get what they want” to merely to restore peace. Elections are supposed to change things, not mob violence. Realistically, loud protests are successful methods of change, even without achieving majority opinion.)
      .

  • HARP2

    Eastern Ukraine tends to be Russian-speaking and favors closer ties with Russia; western Ukraine is heavily Ukrainian-speaking and favors closer ties with the West

    Russia under Putin has a huge stake in the military facilities in Eastern Ukraine and especially the Crimea.The Kremlin has always regarded bases in Ukraine, like its naval hub at Sevastopol, as key to security.

    I can see trouble ahead.

    • Deapster

      I believe this was why Putin was developing Sochi – as his new and exclusive Black Sea port so he can now pull the plug on Sevastopol.

      Right now Russia is only leasing its Sevastopol facilities from the Ukraine and if Russia left, there is really no Ukrainian Navy (or cruise ship industry) to fill that revenue gap. The city is dedicated pretty grandly to primarily this one main military activity.

      Our recent Sept 2013 visit to both cities was fascinating. We were in the middle of the debate in the Ukraine, and the culmination of the development of Sochi post-Olympics.

      Corruption, corruption, corruption was being grumbled loudly in both places. But then, where isn’t it.

      • wyntre

        Interesting.

        Talk about corruption, have you been keeping up with the NYC Mayor’s antics?

        Talks about the need for improved speed limits then promptly breaks them.
        His wife can’t get no police protection coz she smokes weed, daily, and they say they would have to arrest her.
        He gets his black buddy out of jail after a late-night phone call.
        Doesn’t plow streets in the Upper East Side.
        Has vowed to issue illegals ID cars, tax wealthy NY to fund pre-school even though Cuomo has said the state will pick up the tab, has promised to add 2 new Muslim holidays to the school calendar . . .

        I could go on.. . .

        • Deapster

          OMG! I see the headlines, but those are delicious details. I guess they are just not a scandalous as Christie and Bridgegate to MSM.

          • KenoshaMarge

            He is a liberal – more like a Socialist – if you can tell the difference these days – therefore what he does is wonderful and legal and what Chris Christie does, being one of those evil Republicans is not. Rinse and reapply to all situations depending on the party to which the miscreant belongs.

            New York elected a stupid, incompetent, lying POS. Unfortunately the 75% of the population that didn’t bother to vote will have to suffer for the votes of the 25% who did. Elections do, indeed, have consequences.