The Mozart effect and its legacy

Thanks OGG. Not so many years ago (or maybe it was) we had music classes in public elementary school that exposed us to classical composers and their works. I, too, raised my children with a wide variety of music from popular, bluegrass (roots music it’s sometimes now called), classical as well as recordings of spoken word…Dylan Thomas, etc. My children have an appreciation of all of it and included an interest in Opera on their own.

My son used to perform punk rock and techno pop in San Francisco but never gave up an appreciation of the classics. He thought Rap was unique for a while but then finally said he became bored with fat, bald guys screaming about social ills…about the same time he moved on to other artistic pursuits in design and photography. Sort of interesting to me that he never gave up Frank, Ella, MJQ or Bach along the way.

I’d love to see more refinement of manners and taste return to our world.

I love Mozart. I particular loved Bernstein doing Mozart.

You are right about IQs and classical. This is why they make those Classicial music for babies productions. Mozart for babies. Both before and after they are born.

Me too on loving Mozart. His music is a pure expression of the divine. I rank him up there with Charlie Parker (“Bird”). They are truly equals in my mind as innovators and creators of pure beauty.

Here in the U.S. a early attempt was marrying cartoons – specifically the old Bugs Bunny and friends to classical music in order to expose children to it.

It was the only IMS of trying to reach children on a mass scale. Todays cartoons simply have some bad rock for a sound track.

When I go to classical music concerts they are mainly filled with middle-aged and older whites. Rarely do you find children or teenagers in attendance, let alone minorities.

BTW classical music is not seen as politically correct by either conservatives or liberals. Both detest it for different reasons.

IMO it will be extinct here in the U.S. for the most part in another 20-40 years.

I have long felt that “rap” is what you get when you discount the importance of music education in the school system.

Of course you could be right but I hope it goes exactly the opposite direction.

In Carmel we have the annual Bach Festival which has never lost its appeal or popularity as one of the main events right along with the golf tournaments and Concours D’Elegance for the collectible car buffs and the Monterey Jazz Festival. The famous Monterey Pop Festival never took away from the others. Let’s hope there will be plenty of room for all including progressive music. I find Rap about as interesting as New Age. It has a short shelf life.

My grandsons like all the latest groups and musical styles though they have a healthy appetite for their father’s huge collection of classical.

Agreed. That’s another area that becomes the responsibility of parents and friends. The youth do need positive examples. Very challenging in today’s world.

I do credit my daughter and son-in-law for turning off the TV, having a sit down family dinner with classical music. My grandsons do practice manners at the table and beyond and have never used low language. A source great satisfaction for me. But they aren’t the only ones. In HS, their friends decided they would set themselves apart from their PC peers and not use the F or N words. Good manners, after all, are the universal language that will take you anyplace in the world and are nothing more than consideration and respect for others.

Or maybe rap is what yo get because it was cheaper and easier to provide entertainment at block parties, especially in poorer inner city urban areas by spinning records and dj’in and MC’ing? It’s as if there’s something wrong about a strong basic 4/4 rhythmic beat? And not all rap is about using the n and f words, bragging about poppin caps in peoples asses and pimpin hoes.

You’re focusing on a few negative aspects and stereotypes of certain kinds of rap music and using it to condemn and disparage the whole genre. I would think that people who are into something as specialized, and well…unpopular as classical music would be a little bit more understanding of doing such things.

I used one of the Bugs Bunny cartoons in my video on Wagner

And not all rap is about using the n and f words, bragging about poppin caps in peoples asses and pimpin hoes.

I’ll take your word for it. The misogyny is pretty tough to get past for me…particularly when I see women joining in as participants. Perhaps you’d care to enlighten us as to the more positive messages.

QUOTE And not all rap is about using the n and f words, bragging about poppin caps in peoples asses and pimpin hoes.UNQOUTE

But a lot of it is, and whenever you see it on television you see clones going through very mannered movements that are totally artificial. However, my anti-rap rap song has actually been take up by a genuine New York rapper and turned into a more “street” version, but with the same emphasis against the common themes of rap.

Rap at its best is poetry set to a beat. Eminem is a genius of sorts as are some others especially in alternative markets, but it’s meant to be listened to lyrically. Not that there isn’t occasionally an interesting and original musical background.

At it’s worst, it’s the ubiquitous c-rap you get from the major labels. Once a genre has been exploited to that degree, expect the lowest denominator as a target audience.

OGG, thanks for the giggle.

Yes Annie, the misogyny of rap is a very real problem. But for me that is just part of the problem: the general arrogance, the sneering male posturing that seems to pervade the genre, is very hard to take. Another problem is the ubiquitous use of the rhymed couplet. John Milton broke away from “the troublesome and modern bondage of rhyming” back in the 17th century, but the rappers cannot throw away their rhyming dictionaries in the 21st century. I’m a fan of rock and roll: I would just like to see rap grow up and live up to its potential–and drop the arrogant sneer and the misogyny!

I’ll chime in on the Rap discussion from a different angle. I wrote this before on my last thread:

I used to get down and judgmental on pop music. Then someone I was dating at the time corrected me. It is all expression they told me. I agreed and never forgot. Of course we have a right to prefer what we consider more serious art. And if you look at the point of this thread, some pop music has had a profound influence on social change.

I understand some percentage, whatever it is, of the rap genre is controversial. I would never write lyrics that demean women. I would never listen to them. And as I just did I will speak out against them.

But I wanted to share the idea that music, whatever form it is in, is expression and not that this was stated in this thread, but there is always the temptation by some to censor the most distasteful expressions out of frustration for the damage they do. The downside of freedom.

One final note, the more puritanical amongst us will often key in on the most controversial to push their socially conservative agenda. They will call for censorship to “protect children.” Always be wary when someone or some group says that!

BTW classical music is not seen as politically correct by either conservatives or liberals. Both detest it for different reasons.

What on earth has political correctness got to do with it?

If, as has been proven, exposure to classical music at a young age helps improve IQs and educational/ academic capabilities, then there can be no question that every responsible parent or educator should encourage it. It doesn’t necessarily imply an anti-rap bias. In this context rap and anyone’s views on it, good or bad, is totally irrelevant

Then we get into the problem of which classical music is beneficial, and which may be harmful, and why. Is Mozart beneficial to the developing foetus, but Bartok or Schoenberg is not so good? If so, why? How does this translate into pop music? Is Bing Crosby singing Gershwin good, but Aretha Franklin singing Ray Charles not so good? This is all very unclear and I think would tend to reflect our own musical preconceptions. In this context the discussion of rap music is not irrelevant.

I just thought of something: Has anyone done a study that shows the effects of exposing children to rap or other genres? I would argue exposure to other genres could be just as good or even better. I grew up hearing tons of music in my household: classical, neoclassical, jazz and the pop music of the era. I tended to like the jazz the most.

I think I just went off on a tangent, but my point is exposing kids to other perhaps even all forms of music is what triggers the improved cognitive abilities.

It could be as basic as for example changes in pitch and/or timbre and/or tempo is what rewires the synaptic connections making the genre irrelevant. Tinfoil hat: Deutsche Grammophon funded those studies!

BTW I am not implying anyone in particular has a bias or used one in their argument.

Well OGG, once again you have ventured forth among the Philistines, and once again you have been swarmed by the unwashed tastes of the colonial rabble. I trust you will persevere.

Oh yes, I shall persevere.

Well, we don’t censor Rap in our family but obviously by exposing our young ones to all types, we hope they’ll be drawn to music that uplifts and inspires.

So far the only thing Rap has inspired in me is to remind my grandsons that the rappers who denigrate women are talking about us…their mother and grandmothers and hope they do their own mental editing.

Well, we don’t censor Rap in our family but obviously by exposing our young ones to all types, we hope they’ll be drawn to music that uplifts and inspires

My 2 nitpicking cents: I don’t consider what a parent chooses to expose to their children to as censorship. Sounds wise not to expose them to the rap that denigrates women. Or let them hear it and educate your kids. Whatever a parent thinks is best.

I think the reason I chimed in is because I was talking about government censorship which some social conservatives promote under the guise of “protecting children.” Government censorship is entirely different matter. Rap is protected expression. As I stated up thread, we must be wary of those claims by the social conservatives in order to protect liberty for all. A parent choosing what they expose their kids to is an entirely different matter.

Some of the best rock and roll is made with arrogant sneers and misogyny…think Rolling Stones..

Under my Thumb
Brown Sugar
Honky Tonk Women
Starfucker

Or how about Stay With Me by the Faces.

I mean, look hard enough at any genre of modern music you can find something.

I don’t consider what a parent chooses to expose to their children to as censorship. Sounds wise not to expose them to the rap that denigrates women.

I agree

Yes Galt. I do understand your point. Thanks for the clarification though. We believe if we tried to keep Rap out of the house, they’d be even more determined to assert that choice. Just give them more exposure to other music.

We do draw the line on pornography (not to say that some Rap doesn’t qualify) though. My daughter threatened to throw her visiting brother-in-law out of the house and don’t ever come back when she saw him with a porn site on his laptop at their desk. She’s tiny but powerful. Boundaries. Important.

I’d certainly rather hear Aretha singing Ray Charles rather than be subjected to ever hearing her attempt classical music again. She was tapped to fill in for Pavarotti back in 1998 on the Grammy Awards, performing “Nessun Dorma”.
No. Just no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koshAexeNpI (A clip from her performing the song at the White House televised on C-Span. Sound quality isn’t very good–at times, it sounds as though the audience is busy talking.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0fAwy0upEw (This is the Grammy performance. It’s shorter than the previous clip, but sound quality is better.)

(For a contrast, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aitB_fqJRc is a clip of Filipina singer Lani Misalucha performing the song. As much as I love Aretha, I’d rather listen to Lani’s performance.)

Thanks Grump…I agree. Art in many mediums was a staple at our house for my daughter even though we were…Her father is a Musician/Producer and I am a painter. The kid being an only child is remarkably gifted and BROKE OUT on her own as a Writer/Actor and Film maker currently on scholarship. I think it makes a difference for kids to go to museums and concerts and readings and performances. It begins at home…If the parents love the arts and share their enthusiasm then kids will too…My daughter loved debating a film or book or painting from even a very young age because it wasn’t about teaching…it was about shared experience together…When Parents are discovering with their children…Children delight in that…imho…
BTW…One of my fondest memories is of my daughter ( 6yrs at the time ) scrunching up her face and whispering to me that a Gallery show we were at was HOOEY!…I’ll never forget it. I whispered back I think your on to something and we proceeded to the next Gallery on the Gallery walk…It became a secret code word of Art criticism that endures to this day.

There’s a lot of HOOEY about

OGG, this isn’t the result of a scientific experiment, however it’s another observation on the effect of music. I have two parrots, one a conure and the other an amazon. A few years back, I loved Joan Jett And The Blackhearts and played it often. The amazon, Napoleon, drove me crazy squawking when I played that or other rock. My next door neighbor at the time, told me she could tell when I was having my period because I listened to Willie Nelson, Patsy Kline or Billy Holiday and she could hear Napoleon crying. But when I listened to classical, both birds were so quiet. They still react, but I don’t listen to rock quite as often or play my “menstruation music” as often anymore either.
I kinda like peace and quiet so I pretty much stick with classical.

With regards to misogyny in rap, I still remember a bizarre double standard that developed in the late 1980s. A number of hardcore male rappers were releasing song after song filled with some of the most misogynistic lyrics–whether dismissing women as sluts or ice queens or gold diggers, the “b” word (rhymes with “witch”) and the “h” word (sounds like a garden utensil) were used with little recrimination. A number of rap and rap-oriented stations had little problem playing the songs uncensored (a few other words had to be edited, but not the two referring to women). Then, a couple of FEMALE rap groups decided to get into the act. Being every bit as nasty and offensive as the male groups, BWP and HWA (Bitches With Problems and Hoes With Attitude) were condemned for their lyrics, not JUST from women’s groups (both Black and White women’s groups had also condemned the male rappers’ lyrics) but also from a number of men in the African-American community. While the men would often step in to defend the male rappers as simply relating the conditions in the inner city, they showed their hypocrisy by condemning BWP and HWA for playing into demeaning stereotypes of African-American women in the inner city. (Truthfully, neither BWP nor HWA were all that good, even when compared to their male counterparts. 2 Live Crew, while pretty misogynistic, did attempt to make their dirty raps have some fun, and did actually have some decent rapping skills.)
The flip side to this, however, was that the lady rappers who were genuinely skilled were, unfortunately, frequently ignored, not only by the general public but also the rap community. Salt ‘n’ Pepa (the most successful female rap act) were never given their due (the ladies even challenged radio stations over their first real hit, “Push It”–they noted the single was a million-seller but barely got any airplay at either R&B or pop radio stations) and Queen Latifah was criminally ignored by radio and the public (she was much more successful in her acting ventures, starting with the show “Living Single”, continuing through her turns in Chicago and Hairspray; incidentally, anyone who enjoyed her singing in those two films needs to pick up her last two albums, The Dana Owens Album and Trav’lin’ Light).
Rap, even more than rock, tends to be a “boys’ club–no girls allowed”. At least with rock, women have had genuine success: Wanda Jackson, Brenda Lee, Janis Joplin, the Wilson Sisters of Heart, Pat Benatar, Stevie Nicks, Patti Smith, Chrissie Hynde, Joan Jett, Kate Bush, Melissa Etheridge. All have been able to rock out with the best of the men, and all have influenced later rockers. It is a little odd (perhaps, even ironic) that rap success seems to elude women as women are the ones most commonly thought of as most comfortable with verbal skills and should be naturals at rap (male rappers who can slam twenty clear well-enunciated syllables over a single note receive praise by the truckload; I’m almost certain that a woman doing the same thing would be considered nothing special). Another bizarre thing about rap and women–right now, the most highly praised female rapper is MIA, who’s originally from England but grew up in India and Sri Lanka (where her family’s from), and she’s not really a “rapper” as such.

When ever there are money problems the first things Boards cut are the specials – art, music, and gym. That is too sad. It is also very short sighted.

When I taught first grade in the inner city in the 70′s I used to play classical music when the children wrote or were quitely reading or working math problems. They loved it. And we did an entire unit on Tchaikovsky’s The Nutcracker. I chose that music and ballet becasue of its timeless appeal to children. I even had the children dance.

I also used Disney’s The Sorcerer’s Apprentice movie (cartoon really) to explore music. Sometimes I asked them what they heard and what they liked and why. And we compared The Nutcracker to The Sorcerer’s Apprentice. They thought they were having fun. I thought I was exposing children to something new.

I did the same thing with art. I had prints of some art works, for instance Van Gogh, Da Vinci, duBois. Whenever I had a minute or two that needed filling I took down one of the pictures and we explored what was in the picture and what they liked. We took a field trip to the local art museum that was a highlight for the kids. The art work the kids drew after that visit was unbelievable!!!

Some of the best rock and roll is made with arrogant sneers and misogyny

This is very true. But that was only one side of the mandala; on the other side there was romance and adoration of the beloved.

Yes, in your own words, it’s “cheap” and [easy] which is kind of my point exactly. If kids were trained in music, they would probably reject, or at least prefer, something more complex than the pervasive strong, basic 4/4 rhythm minus anything resembling a melodic line.

Are you kidding me!–I’m “focusing on a few negative aspects… and using it to condemn and disparage the whole genre.” The abundance of negative “lyrics” has given it the well deserved reputation it has for being gutter music. I didn’t invent that one. I’m just an observer. Also, please note that besides classical music, I thoroughly enjoy listening to Jazz, Rock, Raggae, Doo Wop, Japanese Kodo drumming, Indian sitar music, Spanish guitar, a bit of opera now and then, and all sorts of international folk music–just about anything–but I HATE rap. BORING!!

Thanks for this perspective JozefAL.

You agree with half of what I said, actually.

Its not up to me what a parent does. I think there is merit to the notion of exposing kids to negative things and educating them why you feel they are not good. There is also merit to sheltering them from the extremes. I don’t know which is better. That is up to parents to determine. That was my point, OGG.

There is one other thing to factor in which I guess is implied: if a parent goes the educational value route, that would be inherently done age appropriately.

Lucky kids to have had such an involved and interested teacher! Do you still teach?

No, I do not. Took a job that paid more. Haven’t been in the classroom for 30 years. And my certificate expired during that time. I would love to substitute next year since I will be retires. But to substitute you need to have an up to date certificate. To get that I would have to take about 10 new courses and I just cannot afford it. Plus I no longer have the burning desire to perform on demand for some pompous professor. Plus it is so stupid. I have a master’s degree in remedial reading and am an outstanding reading teacher. But no one will hire me. It is a shame.