URGENT: Let’s Support the Just-Introduced “Dwell Time” Amendment

Let’s see how many Repug’s support the troops on this bill!

The GOP filibustered the habeas corpus restoration bill earlier today. So much for supporting the Constitution.

Get this…the NYT’s wanker David Brooks asks Defense Secretary Robert Gates if invading Iraq was a good idea, knowing what we know now. Brooks writes: “He looked at me for a bit and said, “I don’t know.”

The Secretary of Defense doesn’t know if 3,791 US deaths and over 27,000 wounded was worth it. So what are we doing there?

Aside from hopeless Joe, I think all the Dems are on board, including my senators Murray and Cantwell. You’re right, BIll … It is up to those Republicans … glad that VoteVets gave us a calling list. If anyone lives in any of those states, their calls will make the most difference.

Just panned CNN,Fux and MSNBC.

No wonder there are just a few Senators in the Chamber because OJ is leaving jail for the Palms Casino.

Memo to Sen Webb

Not a good time to schedule a vote when OJ is being brought to you….LIVE!!

I read somewhere last week that Gates has been marginalized by the White House (probably the Cheney cabal). Is that true? If so, sigh, it doesn’t matter what he thinks.

Brooks kind of put him on the spot. He can’t answer truthfully. His hesitation and ambiguous answer, however, does say something.

Marginalized by the Cheney cabal? Dunno.

But it appears the Bushies can’t get good help these days. Or Gates didn’t get “the surge is succeeding” ["winning" is so passe] memo.

From Raw Story:

Sen. Webb: ‘McCain needs to read the Constitution’

David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Wednesday September 19, 2007

Senator Jim Webb appeared on CNN’s American Morning to discuss his proposed amendment that would force the military to allow troops to be home for at least the same amount of time as they are deployed in Iraq.

CNN asked Webb about Senator John McCain’s statement that the Constitution doesn’t give Congress the right to manage troop rotations and that the Webb amendment “would create chaos.” Webb replied, “Senator McCain — who I’ve known for 30 years — needs to read the Constitution. There’s a provision in Article 1 Section 8 which clearly gives the Congress the authority to make rules with respect to the governance of ground and naval forces.”

“I’ve been around the military all my life,” said Webb. “This is something that can work. This administration can no longer be believed when it is talking about policy in Iraq. … If we now have an administration that’s admitting it want to be in Iraq for the next 50 years, we have to put a safety net under the way that they are using our people.”

The following video is from CNN’s American Morning, broadcast on September 19. …

READ ALL and see video.

Or how about the excuse that requiring equal home leave would be an administrative nightmare? [Forget which GOP idiot tried that one.] You know supporting the troops, by letting them see their families once in a while, would require too much paperwork.

So if Congress doesn’t have the Constitutional authority to make laws governing the US military or to oversee the Executive branch [per Bush/Cheney], and only has the legislative authority to make laws Bush approves of…what DOES Congress have the authority to do?

Why do we even bother voting? It’s not as if our votes count anymore anyway.

lets hope Lugar votes for this…hopefully he’s not just all talk about the military

What did you think of his floor speech a few weeks ago? Did you think it politically motivated, to placate the people in Indiana who are worried about the war? Has he evidenced any real shift, beyond words?

Arlen Specter is a waste of real estate.

That’s all i have to say.

So is that rat fink Warner! He just sided with McCain and voted against the Webb bill, he’d formerly supported.

And considering how deferential and publicly supportive Jim Webb has been of him — and that he’s not running for anything anymore! — can’t he have the b-lls to take the right vote?! Jesus, he has to know it’s the intellligent, sane, humane thing to do for the troops.

56-34

Fuck the Republicans.

Now now, Susan, they are fucking themselves quite nicely.
Think any third parties will get more votes in ’08 as a result?

Third parties? That’ll never happen and it’s a waste of a vote.

I hope McCain’s B.S. amendment fails…. still voting … I loved how nicely Jim Webb said it was a piece of crap legislation that was not only a restatement of current administration troop policy but was also so confusing he couldn’t understand it, even though he’s an attorney, after several readings.

Via TPM, guess what RNC Chairman and Florida Sen. Mel Martinez said:

“I think we would demean their service if we were to say to them that there had to be a parity between the time in service out of the country and the time at home.”

Absolutely, resting between multiple tours of duty really is demeaning. As someone who’s never served, Martinez would know too.

Heartbreaking – screw those SOB’s! They regressives are disgusting.
This was the ad MoveOn (highlighting the nay voters) should have made.

Right on, Taters. Going after Petraeus wasn’t smart (right or not, it was a gift to the GOP so they’d have something to rant about).

But going after these senators who refuse to treat our troops humanely — and (!) so they’ll be effective fighters (because rested fighters whose families are intact are more effective fighters) — is the smartest thing to do. Look at the quote Leslie supplied from Martinez … unbelievable B.S.

Susan: I think it perhaps motivated by the folks of indiana..
Cause we aren’t worried..we are pissed..and he knows it!
Every couple days it seems a young soldier is listed on the news as being killed in Iraq..
For What? For What?
I’m a rare Dem in these parts..A few weeks ago we had a party and some of our police friends came by..whom are generally pretty GOP leaning..
They were pissed off this war has gone so bad..
It doesn’t give me much satisfaction to tell them..Hey I told you Bin Laden doesn’t live in Iraq….

Susan

The problem with all with the Republican Senators who voted against Webb’s amendment to treat our troops humanely is that they don’t give a fuck about the troops.

Lets’ face it, the troops are expendable pawns in a chess game of power, corruption, greed and evil that has been going for the last six years.

And now with Bush’s new South Korea model for Iraq they will be there forever because the next POTUS will go along with the present policies because no one will stop them, not Congress, not the military (they could do a coup you know) or the rest of the world. We are the 800 lb gorilla and no one is going to stop us.

I hate to be so pessimistic because I am normally a very hopeful person.

I do believe that there is one event that is going to happen soon that will make eveything pale in comparison. It is controlled by no one and that is a global financial collapse that will make the 1930′s look like a picnic.

I am all for treating the troops humanely, but making them more effective – ummmm – killers and destroyers? I don’t think so!

And by the way, the more effective they are at killing Iraqis and destroying Iraqi property, the longer it will take before this thing collapses. For me the question of making them more effective “fighters” is a no brainer, but even you might want to think that part of it over a bit.

Amen Susan, Wes Clark seemed pretty strong in his statement that he wished they had consulted him.

Wasn’t Clark good on that, Taters? Heard him Sunday a.m. with Wolf and on a couple other shows this week.

Taters, you’re a gifted professional musician. We need to feature your music … a “friend” sent me an e-mail all about you. WOW!

Well, I respect your sentiments very much, but that is what part of what soldiers do. (As do Iraqi, Iranian, UK, and all other soldiers around the world.) Then there’s that a whole lot of them do support, medical, etc., and never use a gun or other weapon. But they all need to get rested and devote time to their families.

It’s criminal that the Republicans are more worried about looking TOUGH to their rightwing base, for the primaries, than they are with protecting the well-being of our soldiers.

Maybe Taters and Larry could collaborate on an anti-Bushie song? Larry’s really good at finding oldies and themes, then rewriting the lyrics.

Susan, I understand that killing and destroying is what militaries do, particularly when they are killing and destroying for some reason other than defense. When was the last time the U.S. military was used for that purpose?

As for those who “so support, medical, etc.”, they, too, are participants in the killing and destroying, and therefore the blood is on their hands as well.

As I said, I am all for treating the troops humanely, but letting them go home and get all nice and rested so they can be better at killing and destroying is hardly something I can support. It also reminds me that while they get to escape the horror they helped to produce in Iraq, at least for a little while, for Iraqis there IS no escape, and will not be for a long time even after the American killers and destroyers are gone.

I agree with you about the criminality of all the politicians, Republican and Democrat who put their political asses above the welfare of the troops.

[...] abandoned his fellow Virginian Jim Webb yesterday. He’d promised Webb he’d support Webb’s “Dwell Time” amendment that failed yesterday, four votes shy of [...]

Very good comments and responses about a very Important and sensitive subject..

CONSIDERATION FOR OUR TROOPS..and giving them a reasonable Break..

Proposed by a Decorated Combat VET who has
Been there and Done That..and UNDERSTANDS..

This was about giving the troops more rest and time with thier familys and friends and more relief from being ordered into the middle of a frustrating Combat situation………………………Urban Warfare..Civil War..Sectarian War..Civilians murdering Civilians..No law and Order..Unseen enemys..Sabatoge..Enemys in civilian Clothes..
IEDS..Unfamiliar Customs and attitudes..The murder of Doctors..nurses..Teachers..kids..
The Hatred of one Sect or tribe for the other..The stress on our troops is dramatic..

They are not coming home to rest so they can be better killers..They proably hate the killing..The violence..The inhumanity ..of Iraqi killing Iraqi..The constant destructionof Irags infrastructure by other Iraqis or other Muslims..and I have no Doubt they would be over joyed if all the violence in Irag ended tomorrow and they could all come home for good..

The Republicans only talk about the “TROOPS” when they think it will get them Votes…They and President Bush are Shamless when they stand in front of the troops..give nationlistic Speechs and wave the flag..for Political reasons..or just to give the impression that the troops who have been ordered to assemble there SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT..HIS SPEECHS AND POLICYS..

DISGUSTING..SHAMELESS…MANIPULATING..

The Republicans and George W. Bush have FULLY and FINALLY Exposed what they Really stand for..GREED..CORPORATE INTERESTS..EXPLOITATION..ARROGANCE..Tax Breaks for the WEALTHY..Using the Wealth and Resouces of the United States to achieve REPUBLICAN Objectives..or in this Case the Extreme FAR RIGHT Objectives driven by a Cult Like Ideology..that Appears FANATICAL..and One that has Exposed itself and Has Shocked the Majority of the United states because it seems so ALIEN and even Un~American..because it shows Contempt for even the WILL OF THE PEOPLE..

I think the Democrats….have
some Good Preidental Candidates..Who can get it Right..They are still the most represenative Party of ALL the People..and most caring and compassionate..and “TOLERANT”..becuae we are a diverse People..and Nation..and because they recognize the Constitution gives us ALL Rights..Not just the Rich..Priviledged or People “Favored” by the Current Political Administration..or thier “Lobbyist”..

No Third Party..Too Divisive in the next Election..and probably too Late now anyhow.

The Republicans are creating the CHAOS..and the Congressional Road Blocks..The Republicans are Playing Politics with Our Troops..Our Nation..and the Republicans are ignoring the WILL OF THE PEOPLE..

I say VOTE DEMOCRAT..and Pray that we..The American people…will get WISE Leadership
That shows the STRENGTH and CHARACTER od Our FOUNDING FATHERS..and those who Signed the Declaration of Independence..and formed Our Constitution..

That is Our Best HOPE and it may be Our LAST CHANCE..

“They proably hate the killing..The violence..The inhumanity ..of Iraqi killing Iraqi..”

REALLY! I am sure they do. And how do they feel about American killing Iraqi? How do they feel about dropping bombs every day on Iraqi cities filled with Iraqi children? How do they feel about “lighting up” cars filled with Iraqi families?

“The constant destructionof Irags infrastructure by other Iraqis or other Muslims..”

How lovely that they are so deeply concerned about what Iraqis and other Muslims are doing. So, how do they feel about the destruction of Iraq’s infrastructure by Americans or other Christians? How do they feel about American shock and awe destroying the electrical, water, sewage, communication, and transportation systems? How do they feel about Americans bombing entire cities to rubble, and then handing out billions of dollars in contracts to American corporations to “reconstruct” what they bombed? How do they feel about Americans destroying Iraq’s state, civil, and societal structure?

“and I have no Doubt they would be over joyed if all the violence in Irag ended tomorrow and they could all come home for good..”

Wow, Patrick Henry, listening to you one would think that Americans came into Iraq as benevolent peacemakers. One would think, listening to you that American troops are just there to spread peace, and order, and joy, and happiness and flowers and rainbows. DAMN those Iraqis and “other Muslims” for responding to those peaceful Americans will all that violence. You know, they just don’t deserve help from Americans. You might as well leave, because they are obviously just naturally violent people and no amount of peaceful intervention is going to help them. It’s that culture, you know.

Shirin..

I have NO DOUBT that American troops regret the Deaths of every Non combatant civilian killed or injured in Iraq, and dont like being placed in a Combat situation where that happens..

They do Not enjoy killing Civlians like Saddam and his Batthist regime did..a Regime that tryed to Assasinate a President of the United States..and Invaded another nation for Its OIL..and Constantly violated
.N. Sanctions ..

They were ordered into combat against Saddams regime after Sunni Muslims hijacked CIVILIAN Commericial Airliners ..Crashed them into American institutions..Ruining American infrastructure..killing Many CIVILIANS..Firefighters..Police and Medics and other Responders..Attacked the Pentagon and were going to attack the White house or Congress..

Our Troops were lead to believe that Saddam supported Muslim Ji haddists ..and would again use or supply WMDS to Terrorist Groups..and were lead to believe that Attacking iraq after 9/11 was a Legitimate military response..and that they would indeed be “Liberating” the Iraqi people from a Brutal regime that did much to cause the self destruction of Iraq and its Command and Control Systems and Infrasturcture..as a response to Saddams belligerence..

Our American troops are out in the streets..In Uniform..Highly Visible..NOT hiding behind civilians..and women and Kids in Civilian Nieghborhoods..

The terrorists, MUSLIM Ji Haddists and various Muslim Sects ..and Shia aand Sunni Iraqis…show a Total disregard for thier fellow citizens..and much of the Current Destruction to Irags infrastructure is being done by Sunni or Shia Muslims..and Iraqi Sects..

Saddams belligerence and Aggression and Arrogance has alot to do with Iraqs current situation..and ruined infrastructure..

Should we have invaded..NO

Do our troops want to be there..NO

do Our troops wish or did they believe that the Iraqis wanted the be liberated from Saddams Dictatorship
and would quickly rebuild a peaceful government..and society..YES..

boy were they wrong..

I am DISGUSTED with your repeated Biased and Insulting Comments about Our American troops..Shirin..

They are caught in the middle of a Situation that is Directed by the Leadership of the CHRISTIAN ZEALOTS..JEWISH
ZEALOTS and MUSLIM ZEALOTS..or SECTARIAN ZELOTS..

At least..as a “Christian” and an AMERICAN..I will be Honest enough to Blame
the role of American LEADERSHIP in this matter..and not the troops..

Just those who LEAD Them and Us..

I don’t like or respect your being so DISHONEST or UN~ TRUTHFUL or BIASED with your Comments and Opinions..You do not have the COURAGE or HONESTY to do what many Americans do on this blog or across the United States..put the blame where it belongs..and that includes the Iraqi people
and various sects in the middle east..who are also responsible for all the current violence..
Shirin..

Hm, you know, I was born in USSR, and I know that Nazi troops were “out in the streets..In Uniform..Highly Visible”

And when “parisans” (gerillas) killed them, they called them “bandits” (partisans did not wear uniforms). And, by the way, I do not remember whether Hitler claimed that, unlike Stalin, he did not like killing Russians, but I know that he murdered a lot more Russians than Stalin. The same is correct about Saddam and USA killing Iraqis.

And really, after Haditha and the rape and murder of 14-years Abir it is ridiculous to say “that American troops regret the Deaths of every Non combatant civilian killed or injured in Iraq”.(That is, Haditha was only one of mass-murders and Abir only one of rape victims, but other went unreported in USA) And please, do not start about “bad apples” – they just let go another “hero” of Haditha.

Imperialist colonial war ALWAYS is about mass-murdering civilians, because it is ONLY way to subjugate people. (Israel does the same, and torture, of course, it is important part of such war as well)

Patrick Henry, stop the bullshit, please. Stop blaming the victims for what your government and its troops are doing in Iraq.

Just stop it.

Susan – Thanks. You’re far too kind. Actually, I’ve got a coupla jobs, one is considerably less glamorous. I was trying to find a job/career that allowed one to sleep in – being a
musician seemed to fit that bill. Hey, as you know – it rains a bit in the state of Washington, practicing and rehearsing was an indoor activity. The other job is consumer protection – when I’m not on the road, recording, etc. Which despite my bitching and moaning about it at times – is actually quite satisfying.

Now if only I could play guitar like you write..

Leslie – I’d collaborate w/Larry in a heartbeat on anything. Yes, he is a wordsmith of the first caliber. His riffing is just like
musical improvisation. And let’s not forget your formidable writing skills, Leslie.

Patrick & Shirin,
I care very much about you both – and I understand both sentiments. I have a nephew in Afghanistan right now, he has already been deployed to Iraq. They have a new baby and they would have appreciated the time Sen. Webb & Sen. Hagel proposed.
All lives have value.
These are truly trying times. Leadership DOES matter, we are seeing the dire consequences of failed leadership.

Lidia..

The Soviets and Chinese “Collectively” Murdered about 100 million of thier own Citizens..and thier Prison systems ..Secret Police and Methods of torture and execution are notorious..as well as the Miserable lifestyles under those regimes..

So was Soviet Soldier raping and pillaging in Grmany..and during Soviet Imperialist Occupation of Eastern European Countrys..

The Russians have a new chance to change all that and join the free World..I seriously doubt that will happen since
Russian objective appear to still be a KGB Operation..and like the Communist Chinese..Its “All about the Money”..and they are all Imperialist in one form or Another..employing various Means..Methods and Propaganda..because many of the worlds Leader would rather make war than Peace..because they enjoy “Playing the Game..”

in the End…They are all collectively ganging up on the United States… even in the European Union..and the United states is now Vunerable to economic collapse over night..there is so much more involved than Iraq and the Middle east..or who behaves badly or who the “Imperialist” are..

We will see what Other Nations dominate in the Middle East when all this is over..I suspect there will be a rapid series of events in the next 12 months
that will force the United states to withdraw from the Middle east completely..and that the “NEO~COMMUNISTS”
and the E.U. will be the Ones in Power..

Its sad to see the United States self destructing the way it is.. and for other nations who have benifited so much from American assistance in World War Two and since then..To be willing to Stab America in the Back..and “Cut and Run”..

No one has been more Generous or sincere about its humanitarian concerns…Than the AMERICAN PEOPLE..

We Understand FREEDOM..and unlike Russia..China..the Middle east and other Dictatorships..We fight Tyrrany and injustice..even in our own Government..recognizing how Fragile Our Democracy is and how much we have perhaps we have taken our freedoms and constitution and Government for granted..

Thank You LIDIA..for reminding us that things could be so much worse..and if we are not DILIGENT..we will wind up like the Russians or Chinese..or Germans ..all who have been manipulated by IDEOLOGY..and IDIOTS..

We ALL Face that CROSSROAD Now..and its either WORLD PEACE..or WORLD WAR..and armageddon..

I Pray for PEACE..and that involves WORLD participation..

very nice answer, blame the person, or the person’s people, instead of answereing the FACTS the person cited. But I guess it is quite typical…

and to think that PH is AGAINST the war! I wonder, why he is? Because Iraqis are TOO ungrateful?

I am Blaming the LEADERS who create the CHAOS..Russia..Europe..China..Africa..s. America..doesnt matter..the Power fo’s to thier head and the People Suffer for it every where..Including now in Iraq..I am against the war becuase it was the wrong thing to do..Wrong war..Wrong place..Wrong time..Wrong Motives..

I feel deep sadness for the Misery being caused the Iraqi people..and am just as sad when I see or read about iraqi deaths as I am reading about american deaths..

I would be happy to see the Iraqi people United and getting good Leadership and a Unified government
and have more security and peace..if they would do that..The Americas would have no excuse to stay there..

I think the United states should bring its troops home..try to save our Own democracy and Government..and use the money spent on the war to rebuild our own Decaying infrastructure and using tax payer dollars to improve the quailty of life for the American People instead of it being Pilfered by the politicians to spend on “GLOBALIZATION”..and meddleing in the affairs of others countrys..or occupying them under Pretext..

I am ashamed of things being done by some of My Represenatives in Government and am finally aware of thier Modus operandi enough to Voice my Disgust..Dissent and Disapproval..

I don’t like getting to the point as an American citizen..where I start feeling like my only Choice is to vote for the Far left “Communists” or vote for the far right “National Socialists:” who care more about thier “Sponsors” than they do about the American People..

Thats not the Government or type of Representation “Of the People..By the People and For the People” Our Founding Fathers intended..

Thats the great thing about America..FREEDOM of Speech..and the Best Constitution and Bill of Rights in the World..and unless we want to become like Nazi German or Communist Russia..and China..we had better keep telling Our Politicians we will tolerate Niether and Vote them out of Office..or start a Third
American Party..

OK, still not answer about Haditha and a lot of Hadithas… Sorry, but when USA patriots start to ask OTHERS what they think about their “great” USA? It might bring a bit of surpirse for them, and not a pleasant one at all, so I guess they prefer to go without