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Women Need Not Apply

We already know all about older women being discriminated against in the labor market, especially when they have been out of the labor loop altogether while raising children. (Caroline Kennedy may be an exception. Snort.)

But now social scientists at Rutgers University have evidence of a lose-lose for women applying for work of any age.

A recently published study found that women who present themselves as confident and ambitious in job interviews are viewed as highly competent. The problem? They are also seen as lacking social skills. Sorry honey.

So, what about women who present themselves as modest and cooperative? That’s better, yes? No, the interviewers liked them, but they were perceived as low on competence. Bye Sweetie.

So confident and ambitious male candidates are less liked too? No, they are viewed as both competent and likeable. They are far more likely to get the job than either type of woman.

Though not tested for in the study, are we to assume that women who pull coming off as confident and ambitious but also cooperative and modest would never get a job because they are seen as unlikable and incompetent?

This is bad news at a time when tens of thousands of women who have been laid off their jobs are now out interviewing for work to make ends meet.

This study is published in the December 2008 issue of Psychology of
Women Quarterly. Author: Julie E. Phelan.

  • Indy G-Dog

    So, what about women who present themselves as modest and cooperative? That’s better, yes? No, the interviewers liked them, but they were perceived as low on competence. Bye Sweetie.

    So confident and ambitious male candidates are less liked too? No, they are viewed as both competent and likeable. They are far more likely to get the job than either type of women.

    So, I guess this explains our success in the wars, and with the economy, these last eight years?

    Superior, likable men.

  • HARP

    So far I have seen two talking heads say CK is qualified because she is a mother. WTF.

  • http://gillianboardman.wordpress.com/ gregoryp

    Pat that is an excellent cartoon as all of yours are. It would seem that when the deck is stacked agaisnt you it is very, very difficult to achieve and yet millions of women have excelled, have moved up the corporate ladder and have done whatever they wanted. Unfortunately, most women don’t get those opportunities.

    This election cycle has certainly opened my eyes. Sexism both blatant and overt has to be one of our greatest problems. If we conquer it so many other things will go by the wayside as our social problems are completely interrelated. And this crap negatively effects all of us. Every time my wife doesn’t get promoted or whenever her pay is less than others doing comparable jobs it seriously effects me as well. If I had kids it would negatively effect them as well.

    It is past time for America to have its actions match its rhetoric. Equality for everyone: all minorities, all women, all members of GLBT, all disabled or handicapped people, all mentally challenged people, all mentally ill people, and even all of us men. As Abe Lincoln once said “A House Divided Cannot Stand.” And right now we are divided along artificial lines that in the grand scheme of things are absolutely useless.

  • http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/radical/ kat in your hat

    Pat, thank you for the study. I was *wondering* why almost anything a woman does is seen as “too this” or “too that”…like nothing is ever right. It’s never “just right”….hmmm.

    Oh, and I am dropping this off for the people. You MUST see this photo of Obama:

    ——————

    Why does Obama look wasted? Why is he smoking a cigarette like it’s a joint? http://www.drudgereport.com/

    LMAO.

    I swear to gawd this whole thing is one big April Fool’s Day. Ya know, like movie Groudhog’s Day…uh yeah…like that, but April Fool’s.

  • Pat Racimora

    Wonderful comment! Thanks!

  • Choo Choo Magoo

    Great info Pat. And timely. I had not seen the study. Unfortunately,I think things will get even worse for working women as our economy worsens. A 1950′s mindset will take over that says scarse jobs should go to men as the breadwinners. Never mind that today most heads of households are women.

  • clairtx

    So, why did all these women vote for an adminstration that is so clearly biased against women…hmmmm?

    There are plenty of women in the work force that are both competent and do not have to please everyone. I liken dealing with people in the work force to dealing with children. You don’t have to be liked – just respected.

    The good old boy mentality is going out the door – fast! It has produced failing companies, excessive bonuses for CEOs, loss of jobs, and corruption at the highest level.

    Women need to stop listening to others telling them how they must act and take charge of their own destiny. It feels good!

  • JohnnyB

    What a shock, Pat, to see this in print. We all know there’s sexism at work in America, but this information has to get out to all of us in America.
    Good cartoon, Pat. Thanks for the information.

    Now take action. Go to: http://www.campaignforgenderequality.org and from there sign the petition asking President Obama to form a Presidential Commission on Women. Sign up for their newsletter while you are on the home page.

    Take action now. Many groups are trying to make a difference in sexism and racism, suppor them in their work.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82qCwLX9piE Woman Voter

    Likable?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DeCLPwxXI
    ………..

    “You’re likable enough, Hillary” – Obama

  • clairtx

    CK isn’t qualified because she is a mother – it’s because she is a Kennedy.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82qCwLX9piE Woman Voter

    Obama a Smoker!??
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-qXGyovM4A
    ……..

    Is “You ducked” polite for ‘You Lied’?

  • Indy G-Dog

    So, why did all these women vote for an adminstration that is so clearly biased against women…hmmmm?

    Why did an otherwise intelligent press suck Obama’s dick, to be blunt?

    Can you understand why?

  • Rich

    Great cartoon! This information is helpful to understand how women are handicapped in attaining the successes they could achieve. The question in my mind is, is this survey of how men view women or how even women view women. Short men have to join the women in changing how both are viewed.

    Rich

  • hootnannie

    I can’t get over how Hillary and Palin were scoffed at because of purported lack of experience. Hillary was derided because of the claim she rode Bill’s magic into office, while at the same time others pooh-poohed her political ambitions, claiming that Bill had left a junk-strewn path for her to have to fatally stumble over. Sarah clawed her way through the masculine machine of AK, none to her credit from the MSM. And now Caroline, whose political creds include something like serving on a school board, is to be installed because of her maiden name? You’d think there was no one else available! Chelsea is scarcely less qualified, and yet the press would scream like banshees if she were seriously suggested!

  • rolling_thunder

    There will be parties nationwide on Jan 20 to celebrate Gov. Palin. Sign up for one in your neighborhood at team sarah.
    Check out his awesome video of the election.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nJ2SagIXgg

  • wodiej

    Excellent point Pat…

    Prequisite for job success: Penis

  • wodiej

    there are women who view other women this way too, Bascially they were raised to believe that men are superior.

  • Sassy

    Good information Pat!
    When they finally perfect the robot that does three fourths the work, behind the scenes, women will become obsolete!
    Oh wait, that leaves the skirt-chasers out in the cold!

  • irish1139

    What a breath of fresh air was Sarah Palin. I don’t agree with always, but boy I do like and admire her.

  • irish1139

    What a breath of fresh air was Sarah Palin. I don’t agree with her always, but boy I do like and admire her.

  • wodiej

    same here….

  • ceojuliej

    Exactly, women must start creating their own businesses and stop working for men. That’s what I’m doing and I’ve never been happier.

    Here’s the reality… if women can’t get hire, then they are forced to make money through other means… and it’s not prostitution. The tables will turn soon as more and more men enter the secretarial market.

  • csuzeq

    But that made Palin not qualified. You know, she needed to stay home with her children.

    Geezus! This stuff pisses me off big time.

    I am going to need to move over to lalaponyland where it’s all rainbows and sunshine and unicorns and stop with being an informed citizen. I will not survive the next 4 years this way.

  • HARP

    I have yet to hear a man ask for advice on how to combine marriage and a career.

  • stodgie

    they don’t need it and neither do we. there are more single working mothers than fathers, so we should be giving the advice i might add.

  • NCgirl

    Thank you Pat. Your insights are right-on. It seems that no matter what women do, they are thought to be less-than somehow. Throughout history, males have been favored right from birth. In times gone by (and still) when a boy baby was born there was much back slapping and cause for celebration…carry on the family name and all that. If it was a girl, the sentiment was that “we can always try again.” I have noticed in my own family the guys are treated much better. Girls are brainwashed from the get-go that boys are favored and special. Mothers wait on their sons hand and foot while their daughters wait on themselves and everybody else. Females in other parts of the world are treated like property. Girl babies in third world countries are still murdered or sold, after birth, because they are considered a burden on the family. Women in the US may have the same rights as men, but they are still treated like second class citizens. It is difficult to change attitudes that have been ingrained since birth.

  • Peggy Sue

    Clever graphic, Pat. As far as the Rutgers study? Women don’t need a bunch of social scientists to tell us what we already know: gender equality is a crock.

    A friend of mine sent me the following. It’s one of those sad/funny bits, but it made me laugh:

    REMEMBER THIS AT CHRISTMAS TIME

    According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, while both male and female reindeer grow antlers in the summer each year, male reindeer drop their antlers at the beginning of winter, usually late November to mid-December.

    Female reindeer retain their antlers till after they give birth in the spring.

    Therefore, according to EVERY historical rendition depicting Santa’s reindeer, EVERY single one of them, from Rudolph to Blitzen, had to be a girl.

    We should’ve known… ONLY women would be able to drag a fat-ass man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night and not get lost!

  • Kathleen Wynne

    Let us not forget that Hillary received the popular vote, not obama, and did so despite the corrupt DNC, the misogynist media, and the daily attacks by the so-called progressives. This speaks volumes as to whom the people’s choice truly was to be the democratic nominee.

    Also, don’t forget that obama’s crew had to resort to stealing delegates during the caucus process by committing criminal acts during that process that gave the same number or more delegates for his receiving 3,000 votesin a caucus to Hillary’s winning a primary and receiving 300,000 votes.

    Of course, there is the “faiy accompli” carried out by the By-laws and Rules Committee on May 31st which put the final nail in the coffin of Hillary’s campaign by giving obama delegates he didn’t win and then had the audacity to give 4 of Hillary’s delegates to obama as well.

    America did not elect obama, the DNC party elites, with the help of a complicit media and election officials anointed obama.

    An Obama presidency is not the will of the people.

  • JTomorrow

    Bad news all around.

  • Pat B

    Great cartoon Pat!! To understand how this all fits into the bigger picture of sexism in this country and around the world I would like to tell everyone about Professor Bettina Aptheker broadcast quality recording of her acclaimed class Introduction to Feminisms.

    This is an amazing opportunity to increase your knowledge of sexism, racism and homophobia and how they are all connected and contribute to gender INequality in this country and around the world. The 17-DVD set is available at: http://www.introtofem.org for only $20. What a great deal!!!

    The idea behind Aptheker’s DVD set (featured in the Fall 2008 issue of Ms. Magazine) was to make inexpensive DVD copies of the lectures available to high schools, junior colleges, universities, libraries, and individuals.

    “My class deals with the many gender, race, class, and sexuality interests in people’s lives,” Aptheker added. “There’s a lot of theory available, but it’s not often presented in an accessible way that high school students—or incoming university students—can understand.”

    The Campaign for Gender Equality (www.campaignforgenderequality.org) is pleased to partner with University of California, Santa Cruz, Professor Bettina Aptheker to get the word out about this DVD set.

  • wodiej

    LOL….

  • wodiej

    Mothers wait on their sons hand and foot while their daughters wait on themselves and everybody else.

    Amen to that sister!! The men are treated better in my family as well. In fact, I watch to see how even women friends treat family members and they too treat the men better. Same goes at work parties. The men are always the first to dish up the food etc. at parties and holidays too. Ever notice that? It also appears to be some kind of medal of honor to see how much food you can eat when you’re a man. Perhaps if more time was spent learning how to treat their fellow females and less time on their ego, the world would be a better place and so would they.

  • Choo Choo Magoo

    ONLY women would be able to drag a fat-ass man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night and not get lost!

    And all while the man sits back, yet takes all credit!!

  • lizpolaris

    This is stating the obvious, to any woman who’s ever had a job interview. This is why our resumes have to be twice as good to get half the pay. Been there, doing that.

  • Sonic Ninja Kitty

    Very interesting post! I have an aside about double standards for women not being limited to the workplace:

    Last night I helped at a school bake sale. There were very nice goods, but 2 ladies had brought their own spectacular little fancy cookies. (This type of woman is derogatorily referred to as a “Martha”–as in Martha Stewart–where I am from, propagating an image of snobbery and perfectionism.) I heard at least THREE different women, after seeing these super-treats, make the comment, “Well, SOMEBODY has too much time on her hands!” I was only there for 30 minutes.

    So if you enjoy spending time creating wonderful things for your family or community, you have ‘too much time on your hands’ according to this clique. But if you work full time, you are derided as pushing off the work load (as in room parent/scout leader/PTA duties etc.) and/or cheating your kids out of stuff (not spending enough time with them on homework/playdates/activities). You have to choose the image you wish to project.

  • http://logisticsmonster.com/ Logistics Monster

    LMAO!

  • Pat Racimora

    Good points Sonic Ninja Kitty! I hadn’t looked at it that way for a while.

  • raGing

    Julie E. Phelan is a real friggin genius. the twit must be fresh out of graduate school.
    men are surprised by the study I guess.
    the answer to the problem is for women to apply only for jobs that are traditionally female.
    otherwise you’ll just keeping beating your head against the wall like I do. the mortgage company doesn’t care if you have breasts. they want their money.

  • lee12

    Adding insult to injury is the fact that most HR administrative staff (not c-level executives) consist of women. As guards at the gate, so to speak, many of these women (in name only) work to defend and preserve the patriarchy.

    Thanks Pat for the post.

  • yttik

    Great cartoon. Sad but true.

    Obama has nearly completed his cabinet picks. At the rate he’s going he won’t even match Bush in the number of females he’s appointed. We’re half the human race but the Big O can only find four qualified women. It’s because he’s a pig with lipstick, but it’s also because there is a standard for “qualified woman” in this country that is nearly impossible for a human being to meet.

  • Katmoon

    Excellent article and great artwork Pat. It is something I cannot get my head around; this other standard, for woman, one that seems at the whim of those who hold the reins.
    Interesting coincidence I was at pj media before coming here and found an author I haven’t read, Phyllis Chesler; her book=,Woman’s Inhumanity to Women. Anyone else read this? I’ve been at textbooks for the past year so no chance for pleasure reading.

  • Katmoon

    Test

  • http://Scout Scout

    Me too.

  • http://Scout Scout

    I took Bettina Aptheker’s Intro to Feminism course the first time she taught the course.

    It was eye-opening, but not as much as the recent election. I wonder what her take on the primary would be if she had seen the things we have.

  • sayitisntso

    Is this study online, Pat? Link please?

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    A friend of mine in grad school did some research in the old 1950s advertising and she discovered that there was a National effort to get women to STAYL HOME. These women had been a major part of the WWII war effort — and had been pilots etc. Women had been working in NON traditional female occupations during the war years.

    Now the boys were home and women were expected to return to their feminine jobs. So there was a major advertising push to get women BACK home.

    It was the sexism of the past war 1950s that the next generation of feminists were fighting against. The Sex role stereotyping by the US Government and Madison Avenue had been so successful that my generation had to literally battle for any recognition of our worth as full human beings.

    I’m seeing the same push to get women to return to their more “traditional” roles — we saw the way the media trashed Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin — and I’m expecting that the trashing of women will get worse. Women are women’s worst enemies — and have been for many generations.

    The message to women — no matter what you do — you do not have “experience” and experience is a code word for — DOES NOT HAVE PENIS.

    I’m tried of the political PC words for what I’m seeing — and that is the cult of Penis worshipers. Obama was so outclassed in qualifications and achievement and knowledge and ability by Hillary Clinton — but she didn’t have a penis.

    Girls and young women are getting the message.

    The only way to get through to women about the organized sexism is to show women the HUGE wage disparity — sexism is costing women billions of $$$.

  • NomNomNom1

    They needed a study for this? :roll:

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    Yep — I’ve been saying this.

    Perhaps it would be more honest if the job listing contained words to the effect — Only Penises need apply.

  • Don X

    Another excellent cartoon pinpointing an important social issue. Like many on this blog, I was disappointed that we didn’t get a woman president since we had a very competent candidate who should have won had it not been for the despicable political shenanigans at the DNC. No doubt the sexist bias of many voters impacted her chances, but there can be no doubt that she is an intelligent, capable, principled woman who probably would have performed brilliantly as president. Well, we are stuck with what we got for now. Let’s hope that next time around a competent woman can reach the White House…not as first lady but as president.

  • melisa

    errrr…that comment always makes me mad!

  • melisa

    Yes, the problem is that we are to caught up in image, aren’t we?
    I have done both roles, stay at home mom, working mom, and have felt the cut both ways. When I was home, I was the perpetual homeroom mommy, but I always chastised myself: don’t be down on working moms, God make us all differently, we all blossom in different settings. And, not working was a privelege I had when the kids were small, and one I did not have later. I enjoyed both!
    Heck, who cares what anyone thinks? Be yourself, bless those around you as you have been gifted to do!
    But, yes, older women (me!), do have obstacles. And all women need to support each other.

  • Pat Racimora

    Not that I know of without a paid subscription. I tried to find it, but could not. I got the info off the Rutgers Press site.

    I do know the journal, however, It is well-respected. Takes only solid work.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    way to go; you are right that women must start their own businesses and get out of the male dominated system completely, or they will never get a fair shake.

  • http://ksclematis ksclematis

    It’s not really “laughable”…..she was cheated and so was the whole country…..

  • http://ksclematis ksclematis

    I sure as hell wouldn’t want to work for him (BO)!

    Great ‘toon, Pat….

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