Current Article

Latest News: Push for War with Iran

By Leslie on September 30, 2007 at 12:22 PM in Current Affairs

News Roundup:

Seymour Hersh’s latest article in the New Yorker reports that: the White House has tasked the Joint Chiefs of Staff with redrawing plans for a possible attack on Iran. The administration wants to shift away from Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program, to Iran’s alleged interference in Iraq as the latest casus belli.

From the Telegraph: The US is training Gulf air forces [eg., the United Arab Emirates, Jordan] for war with Iran.

From the New York Times: The new, deep-pocketed conservative group Freedom Watch, which is led by two former senior White House officials, “will sponsor a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam that is expected to make the case that Iran poses a direct threat to the security of the United States, according to several benefactors of the group.”

From Pakistan’s The News: Iraq’s vice president, Adel Abdul-Mahdi, says “his country will not be used as a base to launch attacks against Iran or Syria.”From the AP: Iran’s parliament approved a non-binding resolution on Saturday to label the CIA and the US military “terrorist organizations.”

From Raw Story: The US is building a military base five miles from the Iraq-Iran border.

From Steve Clemons at the Washington Note: Clemons hopes someone will “ask Joe Wilson how he squares Hillary’s vote in favor of the Kyl-Lieberman Iran resolution…. Hillary helped give the White House (which she may very well occupy) implicit authority to trip into war with Iran. The Joe Wilson I know wouldn’t be too pleased with Hillary’s vote….”

Via the Progressive Daily Beacon, from the Telegraph: The Bush administration has ordered American diplomats to create a dossier detailing Iran’s violations of international law, which would probably be used to justify war. The full story is here.

UPDATE:

From Talking Points Memo:

“There are two big articles (AP and NYTimes) on the right-wing pressure Freedom’s Watch and two big facts that stand out from them. First, both articles note that Freedom’s Watch is made up of Bush-Cheney big-money givers and former staffers at the White House. But the AP makes explicit what the list of personnel makes clear: These aren’t people close to “Bush” or “the White House”. It’s more specific than that: The activists and givers are people close to Dick Cheney.

Second, as the NYT explains, coming off the Petraeus press-rollout, Freedom’s Watch’s next press campaign is for confrontation (i.e., war) with Iran.

Put the two together, and you understand what’s coming.

Sy Hersh appeared on CNN’s Late Edition to discuss his most recent article. Crooks & Liars has the videotape.

So what’s going on in your world? Any news to report?

Cee

Same criminals planning a new crime

The key players behind the redirection are Vice-President Dick Cheney, the deputy national-security adviser Elliott Abrams, the departing Ambassador to Iraq (and nominee for United Nations Ambassador), Zalmay Khalilzad, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi national-security adviser. While Rice has been deeply involved in shaping the public policy, former and current officials said that the clandestine side has been guided by Cheney. (Cheney’s office and the White House declined to comment for this story; the Pentagon did not respond to specific queries but said, “The United States is not planning to go to war with Iran.”)

The policy shift has brought Saudi Arabia and Israel into a new strategic embrace, largely because both countries see Iran as an existential threat.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Yup re Saudis/Israelis. Everybody in the region hates Iran, I hear.

:::::::::::

Interesting op-ed in the NYT about the REAL people in Iran. Here’s the beginning:

Blogging Ahmadinejad in Tehran

Published: September 30, 2007

AMERICANS might be forgiven for thinking they have heard everything there is to say about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s visit to Columbia University, but the story occupied Iranian bloggers at least as much as it dominated the American news cycle. Although Iranian authorities have introduced laws requiring citizens to register their blogs and Web sites with the government, Persian is the 10th most widely used language on blogs worldwide, according to Technorati, the blog-tracking service.

Despite official harassment and intimidation, Iranian blogs remain a vibrant source of debate and provide a valuable insight into popular opinion inside the country. Bloggers tend to be young, well educated and not very supportive of President Ahmadinejad, who typically attracts followers from the urban poor.

Here are excerpts from the conversation as it unfolded in Iran last week. They have been translated by the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center from the Persian.

— Tom Parker, executive director of the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center. … READ ALL.

http://www.food4humanity.org hoosierhoops

I friggin knew it..we are going to war with Iran and nobody can stop it..
We need Pelosi to start talking every night to the media about bush attacking iran..

Susan: Thanks for the note in the previous open thread..Regards

Shirin

Come on, Hoopster! Nancy Pelosi?! Hasn’t she and the rest of the Democrats who were supposed to save this country already proven that they are useless?

If you wait for Nancy Pelosi to do something you will die of old age doing so.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

Right, and there’s very little Congressional or public debate. In fact, when will we even find out we’re at war with Iran…only after the bombs start falling?

Shirin

Leslie, I object strongly to the use of the term “at war with” in this context. Being “at war with” means there is some kind of mutuality. There is no mutuality in an act of completely unprovoked, unwarranted aggression, particularly on the part of the most powerful military in the history of the world against a smaller, weaker country.

Please find another way to describe what the Bush regime is about to do.

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Well, there’s a paragraph in Sy Hersh’s article immediately following Hersh’s info that “the White House has tasked the Joint Chiefs of Staff with redrawing plans for a possible attack on Iran”:

The shift in targeting reflects three developments. First, the President and his senior advisers have concluded that their campaign to convince the American public that Iran poses an imminent nuclear threat has failed (unlike a similar campaign before the Iraq war), and that as a result there is not enough popular support for a major bombing campaign. The second development is that the White House has come to terms, in private, with the general consensus of the American intelligence community that Iran is at least five years away from obtaining a bomb. And, finally, there has been a growing recognition in Washington and throughout the Middle East that Iran is emerging as the geopolitical winner of the war in Iraq.

Hersh then points out that the Republicans are hysterical about a strike on Iran. He also quotes Brzezinski, who’s warned that such strikes would unleash a 20-year regional war:

“A lot depends on how stupid the Iranians will be,” Brzezinski told me. “Will they cool off Ahmadinejad and tone down their language?” The Bush Administration, by charging that Iran was interfering in Iraq, was aiming “to paint it as ‘We’re responding to what is an intolerable situation,’ ” Brzezinski said. “This time, unlike the attack in Iraq, we’re going to play the victim. The name of our game seems to be to get the Iranians to overplay their hand.”

I’m just on page 2 of the six-page article. There’s much to digest and consider there.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

Yup, the GOP is hysterical because war with Iran would ensure no Republican will be re-elected, perhaps for years. It will drive a stake into the heart of the GOP.

Bush doesn’t care!

Shirin

“war with Iran would ensure no Republican will be re-elected, perhaps for years.”

I don’t think history supports this prediction at all.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

“I don’t think history supports this prediction at all.”

What the heck does history have to do with this? We are talking presidential year election politics! History is now a matter of spin and the way American’s vote these days no one should be surprised…

Shirin

History has EVERYTHING to do with predicting what is likely to happen in the future. What I meant was that I have seen no indication from anything that has happened in the past, including the past decade or so that supports the prediction that an act of aggression against Iran would result in what Leslie predicted. Historically the American electorate has never behaved like that, and there is no particular reason to believe that it will this time around either, particularly given that some 40% of Americans apparently think attacking Iran is a dandy idea, and Congress is certainly doing nothing whatsoever to stop it – on the contrary, they are taking measures to facilitate it.

chris

I fully agree with you Shirin that history has everything to do with this. All to often people make predictions of success with no basis in fact or history and then when they fail, they scratch their heads and blame something else. Karl Rove must have felt that zing in 2006 when he was telling everyone they had built a system that would ensure GOP dominance.

And, as you hint to, the call to NOT ATTACK IRAN isn’t being heard nearly at all. It pops up in some predictable places, but the rest of the time, its RAH RAH. CNN uses loaded words about Ahmadenijad all week during his visit. The idiot president of Columbia stooped to this game too.

The best way to manufacture consent in the US is to give it the old jingoistic macho showdown….weez like that.

But the question will be,…what will the counterbalancing action be to stop an attack on Iran?

My suggestion is to provoke CheneyBushCo LLP through their arrogance to show us who they are. They squeal real good when you make them call on their pride.

Master Sun-Tsu said when a leader is prone to vanity and pride, exploit their pride.
When a leader is prone to anger, aggrevate him. Shouldn’t be hard. Fire off a few more NYTimes Op-Ed full pages calling Cheney a traitor, and Bush a traitor.

ITS NOW OR NEVER….tired of looking back to think what could have been done.

Imagine the world as you’d like it to be, then realize how fast it is changing beneath you. Blink and you’re 40, 50, 60, 70, and older and your time has passed. What is the future and past worth except perspective?

Thanks to ya’ll round here at the NoQuarterUSA

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

My reference to GOP hysteria is based on articles, such as this one by the AP:

Leading Indicators Point Down for GOP
WASHINGTON – It is gallows humor time for Republicans in Congress, where one lawmaker jokes that “there’s talk about us going the way of the Whigs,” the 19th century political party long extinct.

Republicans are switching to the Democratic party, Republican presidential candidates are raising roughly half what the Democrats are raising, a number of Republicans are retiring, seats are up for grabs with strong Democratic candidates running, a number of business leaders, including former Bush rangers, who supported Bush have switched to supporting Democrats. The religious right is unhappy with Giuliani, and they may form a third party.

Also articles by John Dean, in a post below, and many others pointing out how destructive the GOP platform has been for America. A majority of the American public is against the war in Iraq. If Bush attacks Iran, that number will increase and the effect at the polls will hurt the GOP.

Shirin

Leslie, I am not contesting that Republicans are panicking. What I am questioning – and very seriously – is that if the Bush regime attacks Iran no Republican will be re elected. I think that is even more wishful thinking than the notion that everything will change for the better of only Hillary or [fill in the Democrat] will be elected.

Delia

I read Daniel Ellsberg’s talk. He thinks that in case of an attack on Iran and all the consequences, a full-fledged police state will be launched here. The repubs won’t have to worry about the next election.

Cee

Check out what Uri Avnery has to say

One thing I am ready to predict with confidence: whoever pushes for war against Iran will come to regret it.

http://www.redress.cc/global/uavnery20070929

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

We just cannot be this stupid… eh… well ok so we are stupid… but not his stupid? I really do not think the American public will stand for any attacks on Iran at tis time and believe me I would love to take a whack at these guys, but its to late in the game.

We blew our chance, this should have happened right after Afghanistan. Iran should have been the next target. This crap about being the most active state sponsor of terrorism was well known way before 911. Just do a simple internet search. Now bush is playing this up? What the foxtrot, over?

Now an attack would be just the icing on the stupid Iraq cake.

Shirin

“I really do not think the American public will stand for any attacks on Iran at tis time”

Oh REALLY! And what, pray tell, is “the American public” going to DO about it?

“this should have happened right after Afghanistan. Iran should have been the next target.”

WTF?!!!!! I HOPE that was intended to be sarcastic!

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Shrin…

The American public needs to wake up and you can blame us for not waking them up. Its great that we all post verbage on this blog. So what else do we do to really make a difference? Not much.. When was the last time anyone here did a OPED or even a letter to an editor that actually got published?

And yeah and I was being sarcastic… but the fact is that we should have taken on the Iranian regime, its QUDS Force and the IRGC long ago. Looong ago…. even before Afghanistan.

But what the heck we slept while Iran deployed the Shahab 3 IRBM in July of 03. That should have been the reason to take them on. Now they have a strike range of 1500km….

Lets not talk about our good friend and compassionate terrorist Imad Fayez Mugniyah. He was only indicted back in 1985… Find bin Laden what a joke…..

Shirin

“The American public needs to wake up and you can blame us for not waking them up.”

What did I say that blamed anyone for not waking them up? All I did was to question your assertion that the American public is not going to stand for an attack on Iran. I think that is – how does the expression go? – pie in the sky?
“So what else do we do to really make a difference? Not much..”

Speak for yourself. You have no idea what some other people here are doing outside of posting on this blog.

“When was the last time anyone here did a OPED or even a letter to an editor that actually got published?”

All we can do is write the op eds and letters. We have no power over what gets published.

“And yeah and I was being sarcastic… but the fact is that we should have taken on the Iranian regime, its QUDS Force and the IRGC long ago. Looong ago…. even before Afghanistan.”

Why? What business is it of yours to “take on” Iran? What has Iran ever done do you? What has Iran ever done to any other country, for that matter? When was the last time Iran invaded or attacked another country? Why should the United States take on Iran?

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Shirin

You got ot be kidding? First stop with the we got no power to get published, that is total bull. And I asked a question so instead of passing me the buck back tell me what your doing besides blowing smoke on this blog.

Second the people of Iran have done nothing to me nor America. The Regime? Come on now your either playing stupid or are stupid? Where do you want me to start?

Irans acheivements in its proxy war against America include;

Specific links include the Iranian connection to al-Qaeda in the Sudan, a partnership brokered by Hassan al-Turabi, one-time leader of Sudan’s ruling party, the National Islamic Front. Next, there is Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah’s master terrorist and Iranian special operator, who helped Osama bin Laden upgrade al-Qaeda’s capabilities in the early 1990s.

The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, long suspected to be the handiwork of Hezbollah under direction from Iran, may also have had a junior partner in al-Qaeda. The 9/11 Commission established that the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania were the work of Hezbollah-trained al-Qaeda operatives.

There are disturbing signs that may implicate Iran in, at the very least, facilitating travel for some of the 9/11 hijackers. Finally, there is extensive evidence that Iran aided al-Qaeda’s retreat from Afghanistan in late 2001 and has allowed al-Qaeda agents to operate from Iranian soil ever since.

Lets not stop there!

During the 2001 Afghan Conflict Iranian Spec Op were in Herat backing a warlard Ismail Kahn against us…

The MOIS and QUDS Force are operating in Baghdad against US Forces. That Shirin is a fact no matter what anyone thinks of Goergie Bush.

That makes it every Americans concern and business…

However saying that its just not a smart idea to attack Iran at this moment in time.

UNFORTUNATELY.

Shirin

Rob,

Your allegations against Iran are just that – mere allegations with little or nothing to back them up. Some of them don’t even make sense in the real world.

As for Iran’s forces allegedly operating against the U.S. in Iraq – something for which there is no real evidence – if the U.S. were not where it has no business being, committing the war crime of aggression, no one would be fighting against Americans in Iraq.

There is no need to “deal with” Iran. Leave Iran alone.

And by the way, I know exactly how difficult it is to get published because I and a group I belong to submit lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of letters and op eds to newspapers all over the country.

And tell me, Rob, what YOU are doing outside of blowing smoke on this blog and beating the anti-Iran bullshit to death?

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Shirin

My so-called allegations are well founded. Find me one CT analyst or operative from any of the P-5 nations to disagee with me.

Your entire posting is nothing more than a false flag. Let me remind you of Khobar Towers and the fact the the Government of Iran was indicted for directing those operations. That is a fact not an allegation….And no your wrong there are plenty of reasons for dealing with Iran.

Sorry you have such a hard time getting published. I don’t…. and that is exactly what I try and do……

Shirin

Well, then, Rob, since you have no problems getting published, I am sure you will have no problem providing us with links to your published works. Or, if they are not available on the web, I am sure you can tell us what you have had published, where, and by whom, so we can read your work.

Shirin

By the way, Rob, that is quite a fruit salad you have created with all your supposed Iran/Hezbullah/Al Qa`eda connections (forgetting, of course, Al Qa`eda’s virulent anti-Shi`ism).

I wish I had time right now to go over them all in detail, but I simply LOVE this aspect of it:

“…long suspected…”

“…disturbing signs that may implicate…”

Oh yeah! THAT’s a good reason to “take care of Iran”.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Shirin

My goodness how blind can one person be? Or maybe your not blind at all and enjoy watching US Soldiers and Citizens kidnapped or killed by proxy by a Regime you seem to be in love with….

You love Iranian Regime so much please I’ll pay for your one way ticket there…

Blunt Force Trauma

Rob (conveniently) forgets this fact….
Sort of like a late stage Alzheimer’s patient, the American people have a short if not non-existent memory. In June, 2005, USA Today reported members “of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards fought alongside and advised the Afghan rebels who helped U.S. forces topple Afghanistan’s Taliban regime in the months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks,” according to Mohsen Rezaie, an Iranian politician. “Even before U.S. forces entered Afghanistan, Iran backed the Northern Alliance, a loose coalition of warlords and militias from the Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities. The alliance fought the ruling Taliban, a regime dominated by majority Pashtuns that imposed a harsh Sunni Islamic government…. Former CIA Afghan team leader Gary Schroen says there were two Iranian guard colonels attached to a Northern Alliance commander, Bismullah Khan, outside Kabul when U.S. Special Forces arrived in September 2001.”
Rob is suffering from a Neo-Con fantasy. Someone should kick his arse to awaken him from his slumber, er, stupor.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Brutforce? Right…..

Man are you nuts really they fought along side us eh? How about I kick you in the arse for rewritting history….

Try again they supported Kahn and their own special interest not us. Matter of fact dullblade, they did everything to pull the carpet from under Karazi in favor of kahn…. Keep reading newpapers ….

You better get your facts straight….

Blunt Force Trauma

Yes they did fight alongside. History was not re-written. And that IS a fact, Rob. Sorry that it does not meet your criteria or agenda.

Perhaps, instead of trying to belittle everyone around here, research the fact presented to you and TRY to dispute it.

Come on, Rob. Present you over-flowing fountain of facts.
Blunt Force Trauma

“Brutforce? Right…..”

No. ‘Blunt’, you illiterate.
Chris Vosburg

Blunt Force Trauma writes: “Brutforce? Right…..” No. ‘Blunt’, you illiterate.

Well [laughing] “brute force” is acceptable. “brutforce” might be Chris Matthews’ assessment of the formidability of the heavily perfumed Fred Thmpson.

Shirin

BFT, the stories that the Iranian regime is or has ever been allied with the Taliban or Al Qa`eda are simply ludicrous. It is every bit as risible as the stories that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were pals.

Rob apparently doesn’t realize how completely unrealistic his little stories are.

Blunt Force Trauma

Yes, Shirin. Agreed. In Rob’s world; down is up and up is down. He’s suffering from a Neo-Con delusion spread by lamestream media presstitutes that foam and salivate for war. Any war. Both Admiral Fallon and Rob should have beers over the subject of Iran and the Taliban. They’ll miss the obvious that Iran and the Taliban are mortal enemies. Shi’ite Iran nearly went to war against the Taliban after the massacre of Afghan Shi’ites and nine Iranian diplomats in Mazar-e-Sharif in 1998. But no doubt the Shi’ite Iranians and crazed Sunni Wahhabist Taliban kissed and made up—just so they can kill Americans and thus provide and excuse for the neocons to mass murder Iranians. Makes sense to me.
Rob, of course, will have a problem with all this. It’s “re-writing history” you know? For he knows all. He’s ‘all-knowing’. That’s one hell of a Magic 8 Ball in his possesion.

Shirin

What U.S. citizens are being kidnapped or killed by the Iranian regime these days, Rob? Where is this happening, Rob? And who, exactly, is doing it, Rob?

Blunt Force Trauma

Rob said….”You got ot be kidding? First stop with the we got no power to get published, that is total bull. And I asked a question so instead of passing me the buck back tell me what your doing besides blowing smoke on this blog.”

Attention! Rob has the utmost power to have editors and publishers of newspapers and magazines publish his “works” of literacy. I think Rob should share with all of us, his great works, that of which have been published in newspapers and/or magazines. Apparently, at gunpoint. Speaking of smoke….

Linda

The most demoralizing part of this whole debate is when everyone drags out the usual villians: Cheney and the neo con scum. Sure, they’re awful (and are war criminals) but this obscures the fact that EVERYONE in our ruling junta wants war with Iran. The pro war librals were angry at Bush’s incompetence and the failure to provide enough troops (so we could have 2 million Iraqis dead instead of 1 million, I guess). Well, there’ll be plenty of troops this time – an entire regional conflagration worth of troops.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

On page 3 of the Seymour Hersh article [link above], there’s this:

In interviews with current and former officials, there were repeated complaints about the paucity of reliable information. A former high-level C.I.A. official said that the intelligence about who is doing what inside Iran “is so thin that nobody even wants his name on it. This is the problem.”

The Bushies want to start another war based upon even less intelligence to support war with Iran than they had in Iraq. Just as with Iraq, they’re not considering the consequences either.

Also, if the Bushies go along with Congress’s non-binding resolution and name Iran’s military a terrorist organization…the new war plans being drawn up by the Joint Chiefs will probably include expanding Iranian targets beyond suspected nuclear facilities to military bases. Aren’t many of these facilities and bases located near cities?

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

To buttress your point, there’s this:

“I hate all Iranians”, US aide tells Brit MPs – Updated

[...]

Three British parliamentarians all say they heard Debra Cagan, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Coalition Affairs to Defence Secretary Robert Gates, say that she hates all Iranians.

[...]

Then there’s this totally fascinating observation by Newshogger:

Cagan is a long-term State employee, with a career going back further than the Bush administration. Interestingly, she has also been intimately involved with nuclear non-proliferation issues in the past. Has the UK’s Daily Mail inadvertently found one of the leakers of anti-Iran agitprop who keep being identified only by the sobriquet “senior official speaking on the basis of anonymity”?

So the anonymous remarks quoted in newspapers may be coming from Cagan or others of her ilk with such an avowed hatred of Iranians?

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

Good point Susan. But why should we be surprised, the Bushies did it with Judith Miller and the NYT too. Miller would cite anonymous sources, who were Bushies pushing for war, then Cheney would cite Miller as further evidence to support war.

How do we know what’s real anymore?

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Truly. Michael Gordon is still hard at work for the administration, best I can tell.

And it reminded me I need to check Newshogger more regularly … often find astute observations there. What he says is a guess, of course, but a savvy one.
http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Forgot to check Newshogger’s update. Here it is … and go here to see the embedded links.

Update
Huge thanks go out to Newshoggers reader and researcher Kat, who unearthed the interesting fact that, after being the project leader on Project Vinca – a fast-tracked program to clean up the former Yugoslavia’s loose nuclear materials – in 2001, Debra Cagan gained the support and patronage of Richard Armitage.

Yes, that Richard Armitage. Neoconservative member of PNAC and the Council On Foreign Relations, Plame leaker, Iran-Contra plotter and board member of CACI International (Abu Graib torturers) and ChoicePoint Inc. (Florida 2000 vote spoilers and NSA data-miners).

It’s a small, small world when it comes to the neocons.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

The intricate dealings [eg. business, political, nonprofit, etc.] between the Bushies/Neocons is really hard to follow. I’ve heard the closest anyone ever came to tracking that was Alan Friedman in his book, The Spider’s Web, about how the US armed Iraq. If so, that would mean we’re in desperate need of an update.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

“A former high-level C.I.A. official said that the intelligence about who is doing what inside Iran “is so thin that nobody even wants his name on it. This is the problem.”

Ok its been how long since 911? Time to level Langley and Perry with a dozer and start from scratch…..

Billions spent little has changed…

Wisp

There will be a false flag attack “by Iran” triggering our attack. The corporate media will hysterically beat the war drums, and the prescription drug-crazed populace will continue to shop and entertain themselves. Iran will counter-attack other countries, including those in Europe, and we who can still get the foreign press will see more and more references that the USA must be stopped. The over 50% of USAians that believe that the planet is less than 10,000 years old will rejoice at the coming End Times. Cynical old coots like me will be good for a laugh. But I’m fighting and will do so till the end. See you, and RFKJr, at the barricades.
Pingback: Claeskrantz.com | Mer nyheter från Iran fronten
Cee

If anyone is near a TV turn on the Fox news. They’re running Iran: The Ticking Bomb.

Chock full of lies and scare tactics.

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

You have “true grit,” Cee. Watching Faux News.

Btw, last night around 7pm PT, I wanted to check the news. CNN was rerunning one of its endless special reports. MSNBC, fuhgetaboutit — just fuhgetaboutit. However, Faux News was live, but it was the police blotter-type show. With a LIVE legal panel to discuss the suicide of the man who tried to extort money from Tom Cruise. Someone thoughtfully noted that sometimes people under intense legal pressure do take their own lives. Whew. I feared Faux News would accuse Cruise of offing the guy.

It was so silly of me to expect news on news channels.

Waiting in Texas

when is someone going to put this neo-con cabal govt/corporate heads out of business??? I can’t believe that the Administration has tied this many hands – they’re not that smart. This is why Halliburton re-located to the Middle East. Got to cut the head off the monster.
Waiting in Texas

Also, the timing of this super-secret meeting in Utah on Friday with Cheney. Guess Cheney was informing all the giant corporate heads about pending war with Iran and they were all getting a Manchurian tune-up.

I hear Romney was in attendance. As a Presidential candidate, he should have to disclose his dealings with yet, another secret Cheney task force.
Shirin

“war with Iran”

PLEASE people! STOP using this term. “War with Iran” means there is some kind of mutual conflict. This is a one-sided unprovoked aggression against a smaller, weaker party, based on a pretext manufactured out of thin air. It is not a “war” and certainly not “with” anyone.

http://www.food4humanity.org HoosierHoops

PLEASE people! STOP using this term. “War with Iran” means there is some kind of mutual conflict. This is a one-sided unprovoked aggression against a smaller, weaker party, based on a pretext

Maybe we should just call it an Attack on Iran..for clarity….

Shirin

That would be accurate.

Bill Keyes

Comment by Rob | 2007-09-30 14:03:04

“We blew our chance, this should have happened right after Afghanistan. Iran should have been the next target.”

Let me try to understand what you are saying. Iran should have been our next target? Why should Iran, Iraq, Syria etc be a target? What did they ever do to us?

If you are going to drag 9/11 into this then none of these people had anything to do with it. A majority of the so called 9/11 hijackers were Saudi’s, so why didn’t we attack Saudi Arabia?

Here’s why. The Saudi’s have been in bed with the Bush family for years. They also have no use for Bin Laden. They also do not want other oil rich nations such as Iraq threatening their ability to control oil prices.

So this is when the neocons hatched their new “Pearl harbor”. Knowing an attack on American soil would allow them to stir up American anger and patriotism and need for revenge just like Pearl harbor, they conspired with the Saudi ruling family to either help or wink at what Bin laden had planned. I will agree that Bin laden carried out the attacks on 9/11 but he did not do it alone. There was complicity by our government as well as the Saudi’s. I am sure the Israeli’s knew too, because they have always wanted a reason to push the US into a position to eliminate their ‘enemies” in the middle East.

So Bin Laden “attacked” on 9/11, the anger and outrage boiled up and Americans wanted action. So we attacked Afghanistan a poor country whose only crime is supplying opium to the dens of drug users in the world, to go after the mastermind, Bin laden who was running his high tech and well planned terrorist ring out of some caves near the Pakistan border.

Speaking of complicity, why didn’t the Pakistini’s use all their resources to help us capture Bin laden? Because we told them that we really didn’t want to capture him we just wanted the American sheeple to think we were doing it. They said great give us some money and let us develop nukes and we will “try” to find him for you. yeh some help they are.

Lets say we would have captured Bin Laden and executed him by firing squad on ground zero? Great end of story, but the neocons knew in order to completely implement their plan of world domination, they would have to keep the American public “afraid, very very afraid” So they cooked up the phony war on terror and all of a sudden capturing Bin laden was a non issue.

So the drum beats started for our, as you put it, next target..Iraq. Lies, lies and more lies convinced the very afraid American public that Sadaam was a threat and as they say the rest is history. Is the Iraq oil a threat to the Saudi’s? No oil is at an all time high. Is Saddam a threat to the Saudi’s or for that matter any Middle East country even Isreal. No.

Phase I Mission accomplished.

Now onto Phase II

Iran

What threat?? No threat… nukes they don’t even have one. How many do we have? How many does Israel have. Who is the real threat here? Nuke nations or non nuke nations?

But they do have a lot of oil. So what happens if we bomb the crap out of them?

Simple the flow of oil will probably be significantly interrupted in the Middle East and will go to what $200 a barrel$ $300 a barrel?

Chaching chaching chaching go the coffers of the oil barons oil traders Exxon, the Saudi’s and anyone else who will still be fully functioning in the oil supply and distribution.

Mission Accomplished. No more threats to Israel unless you count Lebanon or Syria who unless they are just plain stupid would be waving white flags.

Remember to paraphrase Shirin “he who controls the supply and distribution of the world’s oil controls the world.”

A final thought.

If you want to control or monopolize any commodity its sometime much easier to either buy out or eliminate the competion.

Face the truth Rob, 9/11 was an inside job.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

“Let me try to understand what you are saying. Iran should have been our next target? Why should Iran, Iraq, Syria etc be a target? What did they ever do to us?”

I have to ask. How old are the posters to this blog? Or am I that old? Son if you don’t understand the subject material being presented then either learn or be quiet.

There are many reason why our interests in the ME are opposed by Syria and Iran and nopt all of it is for oil. And I am not a big fan of our current ME policy either.

Sometimes buying out a commodity does not always work. In iran’s case its not the people of that County I oppose. Its the Government who not only is in a proxy war with us but treats its own people like crap.

I also do not support a bombing campaign again Iran but I do support in direct covert action against Iranian assests found opposing US Forces. Meaning when we find a Iranian agent doing harm double tap the bastard and send him back to Tehran in a box with a thank you can I have another note.

I would also support blackmail, coup attemps and political set-ups and even accidential lead poisonings ….

Simple engage the foreign force in your combat theater or AO and kill it….. remembering to send Tehran the body with a thank you can I have another note…..

Blunt Force Trauma

Quoting Rob to Bill
“I have to ask. How old are the posters to this blog? Or am I that old? Son if you don’t understand the subject material being presented then either learn or be quiet.”

So, are we all to understand that when you cannot validate your points (and you have been asked to do so, repeatedly), you then resort to beligerance? Good standpoint, Rob. Makes for great debate.

“There are many reason why our interests in the ME are opposed by Syria and Iran and nopt all of it is for oil. And I am not a big fan of our current ME policy either.”

Not for oil? Then what? Real Estate? Goats?

“Sometimes buying out a commodity does not always work. In iran’s case its not the people of that County I oppose. Its the Government who not only is in a proxy war with us but treats its own people like crap.”

And that has what to do with you exactly. If that were the case, you should have made noise about Niger, Zimbabwe, Darfur, Myanmar et al. Then you should have hauled ass over there and did something about it rather than condoning the bombing of it because people are treated like “crap”. Your own country treats you like crap, Rob. Lack of healthcare, a dying dollar, impending economic collapse, demise of the middle class…..

“I also do not support a bombing campaign again Iran but I do support in direct covert action against Iranian assests found opposing US Forces. Meaning when we find a Iranian agent doing harm double tap the bastard and send him back to Tehran in a box with a thank you can I have another note.”

That’s interesting. They can’t seem to find any evidence supporting any of which you speak of. But you do condone murder I see. “Double tap the Bastard and send him back to Tehran…” At the time you say this, you never realize that a covert action in another country is invasion and an act or war as well as the killing of people in their own country while doing so.

“I would also support blackmail, coup attemps and political set-ups and even accidential lead poisonings ….”

Not remotely funny and more calls of war and murder on your part.

“Simple engage the foreign force in your combat theater or AO and kill it….. remembering to send Tehran the body with a thank you can I have another note…..”

Yes, you have stated this drivel already. The foreign force in your “combat theatre” is most distrubing considering the theatrics were based on a lie and the entire act is an illegal one to begin with.

You are one sick little man.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Listen kid… your boring me….. Irans support of terrorism is well documented and the QUDS force in Herat was no day dream just ask anyone from ODA 555. The Iranian government deserves to be brought down. Unfortunately to attack now would be stupid on our part.

Its a cold world and one day you will learn that…

Blunt Force Trauma

“Listen kid… your boring me…..”

Kid? Why, thank you. I feel so young again. Oh, by the way. That’s an improper contraction and I’m sorry for not exciting you. But then, I beg to differ as you KEEP responding to me.

“Irans support of terrorism is well documented and the QUDS force in Herat was no day dream just ask anyone from ODA 555.”

Okay then. I’m sure you know all the people in that Special Forces Detatchment. Funny how I knew that, huh? Now. Let us see that documentation, Rob.

“The Iranian government deserves to be brought down. Unfortunately to attack now would be stupid on our part.”

Brought down. Under what premise?

“Its a cold world and one day you will learn that…”

Brrrrr. Thanks, “Dad”.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Listen and no I do not know everyone in special forces but I do know a few who served in Afghanistan and I know what happened in herat.

I call you kid because you act like one. Your views are all one sided and lack understanding in a total concept of the picture. You don’t like this administration that is fine but everything is not a lie.

I am not a big supporter of this administration but there are facts that just cannot be ignored. Yes Iran has been very careful in its proxy wars but to deny their involvement defies logic. I am sorry we disagree but documentation is very easy for anyone to discover who is serious about terrorism to research.

The Department of State’s 1999 “Patterns of Global Terrorism” provides the following account of Iranian support for terrorism:

1999 Global Trends Report
Iran’s security forces conducted several bombings against Iranian dissidents abroad.  Iran has increasingly encouraged and supported– with money, training, and weapons– terrorist groups such as Hizballah, HAMAS, the PIJ, and Ahmed Jibril’s PFLP-GC.  Iran continues to provide a safehaven to elements of PKK, a Kurdish terrorist group that has conducted numerous terrorist attacks in Turkey and against Turkish targets in Europe.  Iran also provides support to terrorist groups in North Africa and South and Central Asia, including financial assistance and training.

200o Global Trends Report
Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism

Patterns of Global Terrorism – 2000
Released by the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism
April 30, 2001

The designation of state sponsors of terrorism by the United States–and the imposition of sanctions–is a mechanism for isolating nations that use terrorism as a means of political expression. US policy seeks to pressure and isolate state sponsors so they will renounce the use of terrorism, end support to terrorists, and bring terrorists to justice for past crimes. The United States is committed to holding terrorists and those who harbor them accountable for past attacks, regardless of when the acts occurred. The US Government has a long memory and will not simply expunge a terrorist’s record because time has passed. The states that choose to harbor terrorists are like accomplices who provide shelter for criminals. They will be held accountable for their “guests’” actions. International terrorists should know, before they contemplate a crime, that they cannot hunker down in safehaven for a period of time and be absolved of their crimes.

The United States is firmly committed to removing countries from the list once they have taken necessary steps to end their link to terrorism. In fact, the Department of State is engaged in ongoing discussions with North Korea and Sudan with the object of getting those governments completely out of the terrorism business and off the terrorism list.

Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Cuba, North Korea, and Sudan continue to be the seven governments that the US Secretary of State has designated as state sponsors of international terrorism. Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2000. It provided increasing support to numerous terrorist groups, including the Lebanese Hizballah, HAMAS, and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ), which seek to undermine the Middle East peace negotiations through the use of terrorism. Iraq continued to provide safehaven and support to a variety of Palestinian rejectionist groups, as well as bases, weapons, and protection to the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), an Iranian terrorist group that opposes the current Iranian regime. Syria continued to provide safehaven and support to several terrorist groups, some of which oppose the Middle East peace negotiations. Libya at the end of 2000 was attempting to mend its international image following its surrender in 1999 of two Libyan suspects for trial in the Pan Am 103 bombing. (In early 2001, one of the suspects was convicted of murder. The judges in the case found that he acted “in furtherance of the purposes of…Libyan Intelligence Services.”) Cuba continued to provide safehaven to several terrorists and US fugitives and maintained ties to state sponsors and Latin American insurgents. North Korea harbored several hijackers of a Japanese Airlines flight to North Korea in the 1970s and maintained links to other terrorist groups. Finally, Sudan continued to serve as a safehaven for members of al-Qaida, the Lebanese Hizballah, al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the PIJ, and HAMAS, but it has been engaged in a counterterrorism dialogue with the United States since mid-2000.

State sponsorship has decreased over the past several decades. As it decreases, it becomes increasingly important for all countries to adopt a “zero tolerance” for terrorist activity within their borders. Terrorists will seek safehaven in those areas where they are able to avoid the rule of law and to travel, prepare, raise funds, and operate. The United States continued actively researching and gathering intelligence on other states that will be considered for designation as state sponsors. If the United States deems a country to “repeatedly provide support for acts of international terrorism,” the US Government is required by law to add it to the list. In South Asia, the United States has been increasingly concerned about reports of Pakistani support to terrorist groups and elements active in Kashmir, as well as Pakistani support, especially military support, to the Taliban, which continues to harbor terrorist groups, including al-Qaida, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. In the Middle East, the United States was concerned that a variety of terrorist groups operated and trained inside Lebanon, although Lebanon has acted against some of those groups. Lebanon also has been unresponsive to US requests to bring to justice terrorists who conducted attacks against US citizens and property in Lebanon in previous years.

Cuba
Cuba continued to provide safehaven to several terrorists and US fugitives in 2000. A number of Basque ETA terrorists who gained sanctuary in Cuba some years ago continued to live on the island, as did several US terrorist fugitives.

Havana also maintained ties to other state sponsors of terrorism and Latin American insurgents. Colombia’s two largest terrorist organizations, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia and the National Liberation Army, both maintained a permanent presence on the island.

Iran
Despite the victory for moderates in Iran’s Majles elections in February, aggressive countermeasures by hardline conservatives have blocked most reform efforts. Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2000. Its Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) continued to be involved in the planning and the execution of terrorist acts and continued to support a variety of groups that use terrorism to pursue their goals.

Iran’s involvement in terrorist-related activities remained focused on support for groups opposed to Israel and peace between Israel and its neighbors. Statements by Iran’s leaders demonstrated Iran’s unrelenting hostility to Israel. Supreme Leader Khamenei continued to refer to Israel as a “cancerous tumor” that must be removed; President Khatami, labeling Israel an “illegal entity,” called for sanctions against Israel during the intifadah; and Expediency Council Secretary Rezai said, “Iran will continue its campaign against Zionism until Israel is completely eradicated.” Iran has long provided Lebanese Hizballah and the Palestinian rejectionist groups–notably HAMAS, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and Ahmad Jibril’s PFLP-GC–with varying amounts of funding, safehaven, training, and weapons. This activity continued at its already high levels following the Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May and during the intifadah in the fall. Iran continued to encourage Hizballah and the Palestinian groups to coordinate their planning and to escalate their activities against Israel. Iran also provided a lower level of support–including funding, training, and logistics assistance–to extremist groups in the Gulf, Africa, Turkey, and Central Asia.

Although the Iranian Government has taken no direct action to date to implement Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa against Salman Rushdie, the decree has not been revoked, and the $2.8 million bounty for his assassination has not been withdrawn. Moreover, hardline Iranians continued to stress that the decree is irrevocable. On the anniversary of the fatwa in February, the IRGC released a statement that the decree remains in force, and Ayatollah Yazdi, a member of the Council of Guardians, reiterated that “the decree is irrevocable and, God willing, will be carried out.”

Iran also was a victim of Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK)-sponsored terrorism. The Islamic Republic presented a letter to the UN Secretary General in October citing seven acts of sabotage by the MEK against Iran between January and August 2000. The United States has designated the MEK as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.

I

Blunt Force Trauma

That post certainly will add to global warming with all the CO2 contained within it. In other words, it was a lot of ‘hot air’ expelled. Most of it was sucked from the U.S. Department of State’s website (Patriot Act verbage, er, garbage) and the rest of what you cite is what we are all trying to get through to you and you proved it for us; that the U.S. has no business attacking a country or countries that has not attacked it. Yeah, Syria’s a real big threat. Right. Better chance at getting hit in the eye by a five-year old with a sling shot.

All that you stated above does not involve the U.S. at all. They are internal fights within groups or factions. Most are even tribal and have been going on for many, many decades. Possibly, hundreds of years.

I’d bet that if you really dug, Rob, you’d find that there is probably a lot of CIA money in a lot of those ops that you did cite. And that IS what you’ll find when YOU’RE serious about terrorism to research it.

Bill Keyes

Comment by Rob

“Simple engage the foreign force in your combat theater or AO and kill it remembering to send Tehran the body with a thank you can I have another note…

Where is our combat theater? I guess you mean its the whole world. So if we don’t like somebody or perhaps their religion we just bomb the hell out of them and as you said go to the next theater.

You and what army Rob?

I assume you must favor the draft because I don’t know where all the brute force is going to come from. Maybe Gen Prateus has a rabbit he can pull out of a hat along with several hundred thousand more troops.
Or better yet maybe the Coalition of the Unwilling all our allies in the world will come up with the extra troops….lets see 3 from Iceland, a couple of dozen from Romania, some more from Haiti, Tahiti, wow the list goes on. We could probably get enough troops from these countries
to protect all the Halliburton employees that have moved to Dubai or where ever it went.

How about the cost of all this? I’ll admit I am an over the hill old guy who could say fuck the cost let my grandchildren, which I have five, pay for it. Or maybe we should just raise taxes on what’s left of the middle class.

I mean Rob why should we fund an extention to that Childrens program or extend Medicare to 49 million people when we can better use the money to conquer the world.

“Son if you don’t understand the subject material being presented then either learn or be quiet.”

You right about that Rob, I guess I don’t know didly squat about killing people and invade innocent countries that haven’t done a fucking thing to us, so you are right I guess I should just go watch American Idol…. what Season 7 hasn’t started yet?

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Man did I walk into the twightlight zone here. Combat theater or AO mean where every US Forces are. War is not a game that is why it needs to be a last restore option….

I am also not suprised by the ignorance of some here to think we are the only bad guys in the world today.

Simply put… get a life… Blame Bush for his faults yes, but give me a break…..

Enough…

robbie

“we are the only bad guys in the world today”…..

no, but “we” are certainly the most sanctimonious.
Delia

Man did I walk into the twightlight zone here. Combat theater or AO mean where every US Forces are. War is not a game that is why it needs to be a last restore option….

I am also not suprised by the ignorance of some here to think we are the only bad guys in the world today.

Don’t play dumb and don’t go constructing straw men with this crowd. You knew precisely what this site was when you decided to come trolling here. It’s the place where some of the people who know the most about military and strategic affairs congregate in the blogosphere. A lot of them (including Larry) were Republicans until the party went insane, and they have a long history of service to this country. It’s a tribute either to your ignorance or your duplicity that you would accuse people here of saying “we are the only bad guys in the world today.” We’re not naive enough to get defensive over shit like that. Go back to the freepers or LGF or wherever you came from where they’re impressed with tin soldiers and with your sort of argumentation.

Blunt Force Trauma

Don’t forget, funding had been traced from Pakistan and the Mossad.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Oh yes our Paki and Isreali friends are just as a fault at the Iranians are….. there is enough blame and special interest to go around…

Blunt Force Trauma

Gads, I hate to say it….we agree on something, EXCEPT on Iran’s complicity. There I have to say ‘No’. I demand evidence. Strange how I keep asking for that in every response to you and you never present any. Just the usual response of; “It’s well documented. Just ask so-and-so.” Let us see all of this documentation on all of the rhetorical and wild accusations that you have presented. Otherwise, you come off sounding like a shill or a Faux News bingo-caller.

Fred C. Dobbs

The Iranians might think was have a lot of gall, particularly in view of the favor they did The Addled Puppet Reagan by hanging onto the Embassy hostages until after the election in 1980.

Absent that little arabesque, the possibility exists that the ground from which the PNAC’ers sparang might not have been so fertile.

And I won’t even mention the criminal negligence of William C. Rogers, III, USN, in shooting down an Iranian AirBus. The Navy decorated him for that screw-up.

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com Rob

Listen rogers came under fire for that shoot down and the Iranians were also to blame. They used that airbus as a shadow for a F14 take off… What Rogers did was wrong in my opinion but since I was not there and neither were you we will never know the stress or decision to fire and protecting your ship against a possible hostile attack… Rogers was cleared of any wrong doing but you just can’t blame him either….

BTW the medal rogers recieved is also known as a “retirement ribbon”…. and he did retire, end of his career….

robbie

“I will never apologize for the United States of America—I don’t care what the facts are”

my country, right or wrong………….you are a fucking asshole
Shirin

The Iranians were to blame, my aunt Fatima!

It is simply astonishing how fond you and your ilk are of blaming the victims.
robbie

The full disclosure of what happened with the Vincennes would have brought about the disclosure of a secret war, the United States as an active military participant on the side of the Iraqis, fighting the Iranians.

Shirin

This prompts the question of who was fighting a proxy war for whom. Were the Iraqis fighting a proxy war for the United States, or was the United States fighting a proxy war for the Iraqis.

robbie

the U.S. Navy told lies and handed out medals.
Fred C. Dobbs

‘Fraid not. “In 1990, George H. W. Bush awarded Rogers the Legion of Merit ‘for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer … from April 1987 to May 1989.’”

And: “Rogers’ next assignment was Commanding officer of the United States Navy Tactical Training Group at Point Loma, a group responsible for training officers in handling combat situations. He retired from the United States Navy in August 1991.”

(per Wikipedia and USS VINCENNES history)

Not quite so big a screw-up as Marcus Arnheiter, but close…

And that last billet. Wow! That assignment makes about as much sense as hiring Hazelwood to teach Watchstanding at Kings Point.

MEP

Thanks Fred for setting that straight. The Iranian airliner in question did take off from Bandar Abbas, (Built by Brown&Root prior to Halliburton purchase) which was indeed a major military base as well as a commercial air traffic hub. Considering everything that was going on in the region at the time of the shoot down, I would be surprised if a fly could have taken off from there without being identified immediately by multiple assets. To my knowledge the story of the air buss being used to shield an F-14 was discounted at the inquiry. I would research it but I don’t think this Koolaid drinking 30%er is worth the effort of any additional effort. We are all fools Fred, “of course the Emperor is fully dressed, you just have to get the light right”. Whats in your past, MSC?

Fred C. Dobbs

>>> …since I was not there and neither were you we will never know the stress or decision to fire and protecting your ship against a possible hostile attack…

Actually, as a veteran of: URGENT FURY, EARNEST WILL, DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM, the run-up to ENDURING FREEDOM, ENDURING FREEDOM proper, the run-up to OIF, OIF 1,3 & 4, I am familiar with this maritime stressor.

Delia

The US isn’t going to end up controlling the world’s oil wealth at the end of these catastrophic wars it’s starting. It’s going to end up reaping the whirlwind.

GR3

You’ve got that right. Nobody has mentioned oil in Venezuela or Russia.
And I keep wondering how China will react with all those US bonds…

mudkitty

This, from the people who brought you the WMDs.

The Bushies figure, they don’t need the consent of the people anymore. They are just running out the clock while they raid the treasury.
ybnormal

When considering whether we will in fact attack Iran, I think it’s important to realize how the case to do it is being made. Not only do I not have any secret direct inside information, it appears that neither does a lot of reporting, neither does Congress, and on top of that, whatever U.S. Intelligence has, is often reporting publicly with phrases like “alleged” “compelling” “very well could be” etc. I have yet to find anything publicly reported that confirms anything by clear evidence about Iran as a threat.

In spite of this, right wing politicians spare no words characterizing Iran as the emerging evil in the world today. How do they do this, and what will it lead to?

The sense I get from the whole picture is that the right wing is using “the only thing to fear is fear itself” in reverse. By firmly implanting perpetual all-encompasing fear into our culture through exagurated threats of terrorism far beyond what it actually is, fear becomes a de-facto assumption for all discussion.

This is predictably followed by the self-righteous assumption that somehow the U.S. has the moral authority to obliterate the exagurated threat of terrorism through military force throughout the world.

Keeping in mind that fear and self-righteousness are the current driving force, while reason continues to be further ignored, my personal expectation for the next 15 months through Jan ’09 is that:
1. there will be no impeachment
2. funding for war without end will continue
3. public opinion of right wing policy will go down, while at the same time, public consent and congressional support of it will continue
4. there will at least be increased U.S. military action against Iran, if not a direct attack
5. I’m no better at predicting the future than anyone else – something could change un-expectedly

With all this, I’m not saying I or anyone should give up. What I am saying is that since the move towards an attack on Iran does not have reasoning as it’s primary basis, I DO NOT expect that it will be stopped by way of presenting logical arguments of reason to those who promote it. It will be more productive to find ways to disable fear and self-righteousness in those who consent to go along in spite of reasoning.
DMcD

Food for thought ———

“F”oreign “O”wned e”X”crement will be glad to help facilitate this endeavor —- for what !?!

I wonder if any thought will ever be given as to; “What are Murdoch’s motivations”. What the hell is his problem anyway ? He isn’t even an American (Aussie) for Christ sakes. How is it that he chooses to provide the main platform for the de-stabilizing of America ? Whats it to him ?

It occurs to me that it may well be as plain and simple as the satisfaction of his own greed (no matter the costs to right and reason). As a business plan , he systematically manipulates hidden prejudices through antagonism with a goal of instigating descention and insurrection within our own ranks.

I can only hope his “loyal” followers (drones) will somehow , be made to “wake up” — they being played for CHUMPS.
Thinker

Murdoch is an excellent partner for the Republicans and that is why he is is “there”.

You summed it up right, YBNormal. But I have a complaint. Can everyone desist providing external links. It took me two hours to read all the information provided! Good stuff as it may be.

Thankyou for a well positioned post Leslie.
Pingback: Carpet Boy

simon

Carpet Boy…

…

YOU got into Ted Kennedy’s car, too?

What did I say about strangers with candy?

Oh, that was brutal.

So, one day, Madonna, Obama, moveon.org, Carpet Boy, and Mary Jo go for a ride in ted kennedy’s car…