I believe without any reservation in the FACT of evolution. However, I would be very upset if there was a fictional debate on T.V. between a world renowned biologist defending evolution, and a ten year old bible schooler defending creationism. Both participants could state actual facts and accurately quote any source they wanted to. The scientist would obviously kick ass, but it would be a flimsy victory with no value. On the other hand, an average writer could construct the debate so that the little bible thumper kicks ass. YEAH! It doesn’t really matter though, does it? It is still just an imitation of reality, just like the sets, characters, dialogue, and plot of “The West Wing”.

I’m glad you got the chance to post all of your issues regarding the bible, but it was not appropriate or honest to couch your lengthy diatribe within your claim that I somehow “missed the point”. You may be shocked that I actually agree with the issues presented in the clip, but I would never cite a segment of a fictional T.V. show in a research paper or my doctoral dissertation, so now I’m back at the beginning when I state that it is rather indulgent to post the clip and give it merit beyond mere entertainment.

To repeat my earlier argument, If we assume there is no God, the Universe is nothing more than a machine grinding out a future which is determined at the moment of the Big Bang and every word or action has been predetermined and the presence of free will is an illusion. Pretty bleak.

Actually, that is a false dilemma. The universe could be something entirely beyond our capacity to grasp. Does that imply there is a God–no. Does it imply there isn’t–again no. Questions concerning a deity do not tend to edification and the Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao.

I don’t think it is as crucial to believe in religion as it is important to believe the duality
of human nature–recognize and accept we come from the primitive and can by force of will, mold a better world. Physically, Man has gone about as far as we can go without scientific intervention (and Lord save us from those meddling control freaks).

Humans come into being with an instinctive urge to
unite with a cosmic force. We, in our simplicity,
call it God. In every humanoid culture, in every age, the God-force has exerted its influence–for better or for worse.

Proper names and tenets may change, the need will not until evolution breeds it out of our species. This will not happen in the foreseeable future. In the meantime, some good people will exhibit signs of intelligent life on earth. And isn’t that novel? Savor those moments.

I think the real test would be to encounter extraterrestrials and find they believe in a supreme being. That would validate, IMO, the existence of a universal power. Good and evil
concepts arise from a societal desire to hold a community together.

Did you choose to become atheist? If so, you are claiming “free will” which I contend allows the possiblity of a greater being. Do you judge your actions or the actions of others as good or bad because that has no meaning in the context of atheism.

Since you demand proof from from those who believe in God, it is not unreasonable for me to demand proof he doesn’t exist.

You have taken the word faith and ascribed to it only the meaning in the context of religious beliefs. Christianity is the major religion in the world, but it most certianly isn’t the only one so when your argument is based on the belief of one part of a mirad of choices, you have inadvertantly shown your disdain for that religion and your argument is dimminshed.

I am a follower of Zen and have no dog in this race. I am merely an observer. The Santa argument is specious, so I’m not going to address this fairytale. I will go back to quantum physics again. I have never seen a quark nor has anyone else. Tests in a laboratory, however, prove it’s existance through empirical data. God is unknown and unknowable, if He indeed exists, therefore taken on faith.You can’t escape the element of faith in this particular discussion. Denying the existance of something unknowable is to take a leap of faith.

To repeat my earlier argument, If we assume there is no God, the Universe is nothing more than a machine grinding out a future which is determined at the moment of the Big Bang and every word or action has been predetermined and the presence of free will is an illusion. Pretty bleak.

You really should study re-incarnation. Not only does it offer a logical explanation for why we travel the paths we choose, it gives a realistic way to avoid a logical paradox.

I do love reading the Bible and keep on on my coffee table along with Zen meditation and a book containing the most loved poems of the English language and another of Dylan Thomas poetry. I am often inspired by each of the books and my inspiration is not deterministic. Without beauty, the world is just space. I don’t know where the beauty comes from, but I do believe my recognition of it would be dimmed or non existant if I felt life offered me nothing but blackness or nothingness when I die.

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope

I would welcome anyone to chime in with their own impressions about who is closed minded and prone to “emotional” responses in the context of the previous posts.

Mark Twain wrote a little book, Letters From Earth, and I believe the writer of this show borrowed many of his argument from Twain. In whatever venue ideas are presented, writings of recognized genus or panthers TV, the idea isn’t always to persuade, but to lead one in the direction of questioning.

The ancient Greeks used the methods of questioning their students in a certain direction and, in doing do, open their minds to ideas.

It is a reminder of the type of pretentious, sanctimonious, and straw-man type drivel that made “West Wing” nothing but leftist pablum This presents an emotional response which is in no way helpful in discovery of what is, ultimately, true or false.

You are very defensive and that sometimes indicates a closed mind. You minght want to work on that.

Especially since they dug up “called Peter” in Jerusalem. I mean what more proof do you need LOL?