RSS Feed for This PostCurrent Article

It is hard for an empty suit to take a stand – or perhaps even to understand what it means to take a stand

[Cross-posted from Heidi Li's Potpourri]

Richard Cohen’s sister is canceling her inauguration party because of President-elect Obama’s choice of Rick Warren to bless Mr. Obama’s taking the office of the Presidency of the United State.

According to her brother’s column in the Washington Post, what made her do this is the way in which Mr. Obama’s choice to pick this pastor for this occasion serves as a special sort of condoning of Mr. Warren’s views about gays and lesbians.

I agree with Richard Cohen, and apparently his sister, that these views should be regarded as totally unacceptable by anybody who has any sense of the importance of civil rights and indeed of human rights. I also agree with Richard Cohen’s view that as a somebody running for the office of President and who was at the time a U.S. Senator, Mr. Obama had a particular responsibility for denouncing his then-pastor’s church, Trinity United Church of Christ, for giving the anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan a special award during the primary season.

I find it troubling that neither Mr. Cohen nor apparently his sister have not been, as far as I can tell, overly concerned by President-Elect Obama’s equally eloquent silence and inaction regarding the sexism and misogyny directed at Senator Clinton and her supporters, particularly the sophomoric expression of these attitudes by Jon Favreau, the man writing President-elect Obama’s inaugural address. (I shudder to think what the reaction of the Cohen family would have been if Favreau had been found on YouTube horsing around calling somebody a “homo” – maybe then Richard Cohen’s sister would join us in our demand that the President-Elect fire this sophomoric bigot as his chief speech-writer. Whether a bigot is slick (Warren) or juvenile (Favreau), he is still a bigot.)

It is tempting to forget in this sort of dynamic who the real problem is. As is clear from what I have written so far, I wish Richard Cohen and his sister would be, respectively, writing about and canceling inauguration parties as much over Mr. Obama’s inaction in the face of sexism and misogyny as they are in the face of anti-Semitism and gay-bashing. And yes, I wish that Richard Cohen’s sister had paid attention to and given greater weight to the fact that she had the option to work to elect somebody who, both as a Senator and as a Presidential candidate, repeatedly marched in Pride parades and met with editors of gay newspapers across the country rather than working for somebody who would not even have his photograph taken with Gavin Newsome.

But I am not falling into the trap that lies that way. Just because people got it wrong before does not mean they cannot help matters now. People can learn. So despite the bit of complaining above, I am not going to point a finger at Richard Cohen’s sister (or, for that matter, at Katha Pollitt for decrying the misogyny involved in the Warren choice when Pollitt, like Richard Cohen’s sister, opted to support Mr. Obama for the presidency when it was already obvious that he was complacent, to say the least, about sexism and misogyny). I am just pleased that they are starting to pay attention now and apparently coming to understand better who they voted for. To quote Richard Cohen: “The real problem has nothing to do with ministers and everything to do with Obama’s inability or unwillingness to be a moral leader. Sooner or later, he just might have to stand for something.”

Aye, there’s the rub. During the primary season and the general election a friend of mine who spent some considerable amount of time listening to me lament the Democratic Party’s poor judgment in making then-Senator Obama their poster-child, kept saying to me that the real problem with Mr. Obama is that he is an “empty suit”.

That term seemed to me too tepid back then. But I have come to see it as the essential problem behind the problem of Mr. Obama’s inability or unwillingness to be a moral leader, and possibly any kind of leader. To be a moral leader, to stand for something means that you have to fill out your suit, your office, your position. To be an “empty suit” is to be a person who cannot draw a line in the sand, precisely because you do not have an arm and hand within that suit to use to reach out and draw that line. To be an “empty suit” is to be devoid of the weightiness that real leadership requires, including the gravitas to admit to a mistake and change one’s position (drop the bigoted minister and lose the bigoted speechwriter; say you have been wrong to dig in your heels rather than listen to the concerns of so many of the people who worked so hard to elect you). To be an “empty suit” is to be a moral vacuum.

I refused to vote for John McCain for a number of reasons but among them was the fact that while I knew he had the capacity for moral leadership, I did not care for the directions toward which his moral commitments would lead my country. I refused to vote for Barack Obama because I knew he came up empty on the capacity for moral leadership.

In some ways, moral emptiness, especially in a President, is worse than moral wrong-headedness. The morally wrong-headed leader takes a stand, e.g. George W. Bush’s legitimization of torture, and one can rally people against the stand she or he takes. The morally empty leader takes no stand. Under these circumstances, her or his silences often allow people to forget that the blank that exists in lieu of a leader is the appropriate target of criticism. After all, it seems easier to go after people who actually do take stands (Rick Warren, for example) rather than the person who silently enables wrong-headed person to gain in stature. But this is sleight of hand. The real problem is the enabler, the person who allows the sophomoric sexist to put words in his mouth, the person who lets bigoted clerics and their churches affiliate with him.

So, to Richard Cohen’s sister and to Katha Pollitt, I say welcome to my party – the one that got lost in 2008, the one that expected moral leadership of a certain kind from a Democratic president. Now that you are here, I hope you can help me figure out what we are going to do with the empty suit about to occupy the Oval Office. If that empty suit thinks he can pick up sufficient evangelical money and votes in 2012, he is not going to listen to bloggers and op-ed columnists whose votes and followers he thinks he can replace with the support of the evangelicals, regardless of the detestable content of many of their views and some of their conduct. Personally, I do not think we can give the empty suit the sort of backbone necessary to resist the lure of that support. If we cannot give this empty suit some backbone, we need, as I have written before, to start figuring out how we can have a better candidate on offer in 2012. So to the people who are canceling their celebrations, may I suggest that they use the time and effort saved to start solving that problem. We need to coalesce now around somebody who can fight for a nomination by a major Party – probably the the Party formerly recognizable as the Democratic one – who is what Obama’s supporters hoped he would be and what I fear he is not.

  • Mirlo

    Thanks for posting this here. Heidi Lis’ words make me wonder even more what we are to expect in the near future – because I have to admit that the choice of Rick Warren has caught me by surprise, I didn’t expect anything as crass. I knew bad judgment was coming our way, but this reveals things a lot worse than bad judgment.

  • Animal Control

    The author that this article refers to also did not take a stand (by voting) when it counted!

    • JozefAL

      Where exactly did Heidi say she didn’t vote?
      Her exact words were
      “I refused to vote for John McCain for a number of reasons but among them was the fact that while I knew he had the capacity for moral leadership, I did not care for the directions toward which his moral commitments would lead my country. I refused to vote for Barack Obama because I knew he came up empty on the capacity for moral leadership.”

      There’s nothing in that statement that said she didn’t vote AT ALL. Believe it or not, there were actually OTHER options on the ballot (and, I believe that in most states, you have the option to WRITE IN a preferable candidate’s name).
      I’m with Heidi, I couldn’t bear to vote for Obama (despite my having voted for every previous Democratic nominee) and I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for McCain (his label of “maverick” was overriden by a few too many cases where he sided with Dubya), so I voted for–actually wrote in–another candidate.

  • SHV

    I didn’t expect anything as crass. I knew bad judgment was coming our way, but this reveals things a lot worse than bad judgment.
    *********
    He does things like this, (remember FISA), to p.o. the people who “love” him. It is a part of his psychopathology. He is like a teenage boy who is oppositional and defiant because it annoys his parents.

    • Mirlo

      I fear worse things than teenage defiance, namely that he (mis)uses people with different points of view in order not to have to commit himself to anything and to always have a scapegoat at hand. No leader, if you ask me!

      • FembotsForObama

        Mirlo, I couldn’t agree with you more. It is lack of responsibility and accountability DISGUISED as BIPARTISANSHIP.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXA3fXpCFk Woman Voter

      His FISA vote makes sense now that he picked Warren, who keeps tabs on who attended his church (via ID CARDS) and who doesn’t. Civil Liberty…what is that, when you support checking on people in church.

      • mary

        I agree with Heidi Li’s position on this. And especially with her new 51% Majority initiative. Without it, we run the danger of being branded “Nazis” without the uniform! And Barry’s flip-flop on homophobia makes me uneasy and fearful of what’s to come to threaten both the rights of Women and Gays!

        Obama’s lack of substance will spell disaster for his first (and only) term in the next 4 years. He will refuse to take a real stand on women’s issues, forcing them to wear Nazi uniforms every time they have an abortion, and will allow homophobia to become a sacrament if this closeted Prez-elect has His way!

        Arrogantly and contemptuously inviting Saddleback Warren to his inauguration speaks volumes of his EMPTY SUIT mentality and lack of moral substance. It would have been preferable to have invited REv. Wright. He was not wrong when he said in the summer:

        “Barack’s just another typical politician. He’ll say anything and do anything to get elected”! So, I say with Heidi: “Drop the misogynist speechwriter and drop the bigoted minister”! And Zeus help us all…

  • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

    I refused to vote for John McCain for a number of reasons but among them was the fact that while I knew he had the capacity for moral leadership, I did not care for the directions toward which his moral commitments would lead my country. I refused to vote for Barack Obama because I knew he came up empty on the capacity for moral leadership.

    Heidi Li, I really hate to criticize because I really respect all of your hard work in 2008, but there in above lies the problem. Everyone who refused to vote helped Obama win. Sometimes we cannot vote for something and we must vote against something. My choice to vote for John McCain was not a pro McCain one. It was an anti Obama vote. Having an abusive man as our leader is somewhere no one should have wanted to go and Obama is a verbally and emotionally abusive man, he is devoid of any true concern for people other than himself and this is a leader???? We will be so horrifically sorry and paying for this mistake for much longer than Obama holds office! The things I disagreed with John McCain with were not as risky, knowing that he would face a democratic congress. With Obama and a democratic congress there will be little oversite, little resistance to his crazy/costly policies. The choice was clear. No Obama, even if it meant a vote for McCain. McCain could have been contained and reasoned with, Obama out of control and no negotiating with that pig.

    I urge people from now on to take a stand themselves, even when it is painful and not your first choice. If you cannot vote for a candidate, vote against them. That is the only way we will stop these weirdos from controlling our country!

    Save America, always, always vote for the best person for the job because someone is going to get the job. You cannot stop that! We have got to weed out the crazies and the only way to do so is to put someone else, someone better, even if only slightly better, in! Had all republicans and all people opposed to Obama had voted, there is no doubt in my mind that McCain would have won and at least we know where he stands on issues. That is far less dangerous than having no clue where a politiican stands and even if he takes a stand, you can’t trust him to keep it.

    • Mirlo

      You may decide this stance for yourself, but not for others. There are, in fact, different opinions, different points of view and different ethical issues. As soon as you leave the realm of respect and tolerance for other opinions, other decisions, you have your cow on ice, so to speak.

      • jvsp

        One cannot criticize the decisions of others??? (One might note that the author of the comment did so respectfully.)

    • Athena the Warrior

      I completely agree with this and thank you obamastolemyboyfriend for stating this point as well as you did.

    • http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Mountain Girl

      obamastolemyboyfriend, I agree with you 100%. Also, with Sarah Palin as VP, we had the chance to do more for woman’s rights than simply working on the 51% rule, which Heidi is promoting. I, too, respect Heidi in so many ways, but not in her decsion to not vote. I voted for McCain because I felt he would make decisions based on what he believed were the best for the country, even though I did not agree with him on many things. I also wanted to see a woman one heartbeat away from the Presidency. I agree with Cynthia Ruccia’s position, as she writes at The New Agenda, that we need to start voting for women even if we don’t agree with them on everything, just to get our 51%. That’s what the AA’s did and so they got what they wanted. Four years of McCain would look like heaven campared to the this fraud we have ended up with.

      • rolling_thunder

        Stunning. Absolutely stunning that PUMAS sat this out. Heidi, I can listen to you for hours on blogtalk and now that you wouldn’t help stop nObama with your vote, I will not be able to see you in the same light. Cindy McCain and VP Palin would have been enough to make up for Mac’s shortfall if you know what I mean. Mac even went to Bush and demanded Bush to do the surge. Up until then we were going no where fast with the war in Iraq.
        Shocking. We need a New Years thread where we can all list our shocks of 2008. My top shock of 2008 – had been the awakening that we are on our own and that our sovereignty is being defied outside due process and law. That the leaders we reject in America are those who do not ask, they take, and they back their takings with force, officials force, marketing it all with a spin of so-called Leadership. Heidi, we have no leaders.
        No matter what officials and trusted servants promise, no matter what individuals may believe about the goodness of officials as trusted servants, we have always been on our own and we always will be.
        The shocks we all experienced, were sudden, frightening and even heart-breaking on many levels in 2008.
        Now to hear that a PUMA didn’t help stop Obummer, is a one-two punch in the stomach.
        The future is at stake and you let it slide. What a pity. The Demoncratic party is not your friend. Some even say demoncrats are mentally ill. I’m beginning to wonder. I belong to no party now and it doesn’t bother me one bit. It’s shocking that I’m no longer a demoncrat but it’s the least of my shocks for 2008. Heidi, not helping stop nObama by voting against him is at the top of my shock list. Say what you will, from now on it’s lip service.

        • fif

          Now to hear that a PUMA didn’t help stop Obummer, is a one-two punch in the stomach.

          Hold on there. Heidi worked TIRELESSLY to defeat Obama. She gave generously of her time, effort and money, including forming the Denver Group. There is a common effort to paint PUMAs with a very broad brush on this site. Millions of people who do not even go on the internet or know about “PUMA’s” are still PUMAs because of their recognition of the fraud that was perpetrated by the party and distrust and opposition to Obama. We do not march in lock step, as the party dictates, and that includes each individuals’ right to vote their conscience.

      • Snickers

        Obamastolemyboyfriend, yep, I agree. I am also a liberal Democrat, but could see the writing on the wall. I didn’t agree a hundred percent with McCain, but voted for him. Voting for a third party, writing in someone, or sitting out the election, would insure That One’s victory. And that’s what happened – and now all of us will be paying and paying and paying – like for his Hawaiian vacation.

    • alibe

      I agree entirely. I voted for McCain because it would be easier to rally support from the Democratic Congress to defeat any wacky ideas from McCain. However, the Democratic Party has been taken over now and there is no one to stand up for us against 0bama. It will be a terrible time. We now have the GOP on one side and standing with them is the newly corrupted Democrats. We have been had! The Dems are now as corrupt as the GOP. They are the GOP now. Any fool who thought Obama was a liberal was drunk on the kool-aid. I always felt McCain was a decent man. 0bama, not so. 0bama is indecent. Naming Rick Warren gave us the ole Bush finger. Obama is lazy, petulent, corrupt, nasty, stupid, full of cliches inside trite BS. I never heard an interesting thing from him. He is BORING and narcisistic beyond compare. He will make his administration the third Bush term. The only difference will be 0bama’s will be worse. We are screwed. Imagine Hillary taking a two week vacation before assuming the Presidency. How many vacations does this make for “Precious” this past 6 months? I always laugh at how hard he pretends to be the President, but how hard evades any attempt to take a position that requires him to back a position that even resembles something decent. He kisses the asses of the Right and gives the left “the finger”. What a prick! His stimulus spending package will be the gift that keeps on giving to his Chicago cronies. To us, it will be tighten your belt. To his corrupt friends, it will be “belly up to the trough”. There will be no one to stop him.

      • tek

        I voted for McCain because I thought it would be okay to have a Rep in the WH and a Dem Congress. A super majority always leads to mischief. I also knew Obama would only be a puppet and I worried about having people in charge of the country who thought nothing of destroying the democratic process to get more power for themselves.

    • ritamary

      McCain could have been restrained by a Democratic Congress. Now Obama can do whatever he feels like doing. I had felt for about a week that I should try to give him a chance after he made some good appointments to his administration.

      The idea to give him a chance lasted only until the business with Governor Blago happened. Immediately Obama lied and said he had no contact with Blago. As others here have pointed out, it would be normal for them to have had contact and obviously they did have contact. But Obama’s first instinct is always to lie.

      When my daughter was a young teenager she seemed to enjoy telling lies much more than telling the truth. Fortunately she is not like that anymore. But Obama reminds me of a thirteen year old whose first response to a question is always to lie. Obama has some serious issues with his character, or lack thereof.

    • NoTrollZone

      obamastolemyboyfriend,
      I agree with you.

    • ame

      I also agree with you.

    • http://tojo toni

      obamastolemyboyfriend, beautifully put and I agree completely. An election is about choices, and while I understand that not voting is a choice, I believe it is an impractical one. Someone is going to win and it is important that the best person wins. That means weighing candidates and the issues and then voting after making a choice. I was disappointed but not surprised that many Democrats didn’t vote given what happened during the primaries, but I was dumbfounded that Republicans stayed home. Talk about cutting off your noses to spite your face.

      Year after year, for every general election you hear, often from the same people, I am voting for “the lesser of two evils”. Every time I here that I cringe. I have never seen that as being the case. I find there to have been huge differences between Gore and Bush, Kerry and Bush, and McCain and Obama. I voted enthusiastically for Gore and reluctantly for Kerry because the choice was clear to me. This year, I voted for McCain because the choice was clear who should not be president and for many of the reasons stated by obamstolemyboyfriend. This “lesser of two evils” is a cop out for not doing your homework.

    • mary

      We know where McCain stood on issues. Even though his moral fibre is tougher than steel and he loves his country and would do his best without moral lapses like Barack, women could not look forward to any “friendly” legislation from McCain’s administration. To Sen. McCain’s credit, he was opposed to fringer evangelicals, like Warren, but he would cave in to making abortion even more inaccessible and he’d be forced by his newfound base to bring in legislaiton DETRMINENTAL TO WOMEN’S ISSUES. This is not disputed. With or without Gov. Palin, he would forge ahead a REPUBLICAN agenda that is, to say the least, not very appreciative of women’s issues; in fact, under Republican administrations, Homophobia and Misogyny have become more acceptable! Not that Obama is any better. His “Periodically, Hillary feels down and attacks to boost her appeal” nailed the coffin on his pro-woman agenda. His antipathy and contempt towards women in general and Hillary in particular, was transparent.
      Really, this election offered NO REAL CHOICE for those who cared for Human Rights for women and the gay community. I cannot blame Heidi for following her conscience on this. Obama, for many, became the “Lessser Evil”….Voting Green was not far-fetched, tho!….

      • rolling_thunder

        but he would cave in to making abortion even more inaccessible and he’d be forced by his newfound base to bring in legislaiton DETRMINENTAL TO WOMEN’S ISSUES. This is not disputed. With or without Gov. Palin, he would forge ahead a REPUBLICAN agenda that is, to say the least, not very appreciative of women’s issues; in fact, under Republican administrations

        I disagree. This is where demoncrats went wrong. They couldn’t really SEE McCain. They only THOUGHT they KNEW. None of the above applies and none of the above statement in your post is TRUE.

        • Snickers

          I agree, Rolling Thunder. One of McCain’s chief aides is a gay man. Sarah Palin has a longtime lesbian friend. That One, on the other hand, campaigned with homophobes, and if Larry Sinclair is to be believed, that That One is a closet gay man himself. The worst kind of homophobe. As for women’s rights, I doubt that McCain would have been as much of a disaster as The Fraud is being right now. Take a look at his cabinet picks and with the exception of Hillary and one other pick, tell me how exemplary the others are or how women’s equality oriented they are. At least with McCain he told us what his positions are and he would have been kept in check by Congress, but with That One we will be under siege. I am astounded that anyone, who witnessed the fraud, the corruption, the plain thuggery, and the lies of That One, could have chosen to vote third party, write in, or stayed home. Too much was at stake. And here we are…I’m actually sorry I donated money to The Denver Group after reading this article.

    • FembotsForObama

      When I voted for (and campaigned for) McCain I voted against the Democratic Party as a whole. I felt that a Democratic loss was the ONLY way to get the Democratic Paty back in line with its moral base, and not the crazy neo-liberals /neo-progressives who was willing to do anything and support anything as long as they got their candidate of choice, Obama.

      Lack of leadership (especially moral) has a trickle down effect upon the whole nation. Caroline Kennedy’s inevitable appointment is evidence of this. No one seems to care anymore because they have put their faith into a seemingly liberal POTUS that as has been so eloquently pointed out before at noquarter gives them a go ahead to disregard certain moral positions. Just look at what happened to the lack of democratic porcess at the convention — no one seemed to care because they believed that the happenings of kicking out delegates who didn’t support Obama and the near dismissal of a roll call vote was SOP. It is more dangerous to have a leader with shifting moral positions than ones we don’t agree with.

    • HC

      I agree with obamastolemyboyfriend.

      Not as a dig against the author but this year it was vote against the BS or be part of it.

      “women could not look forward to any “friendly” legislation from McCain’s administration” is something I hear often as a “reason” to vote for Obama – this is simply untrue.

      I feel the “friendly” women get from Obama’s administration – groped your SoS today?

    • NoBamaNoWay

      i agree with you OSMB; sometimes you have to vote *against* somebody.

    • Andrew P

      I agree with you 100 percent. David Axelrod would be delighted to read that someone who disliked 0bama couldn’t vote for Senator McCain because he sided with Bush one too many times. That’s what drives the strategy of promoting a candidate with virtually no record (besides voting “present”). Or, in the case of Caroline Kennedy, no record at all. It’s the coming thing, folks. It works. Why does it work? See above.

  • I’mBitterandthinkobamastolemyboyfriend

    Aah the PUMA lot. Reminds me of the not so Primaries when pretend Democrats wanted to do anything to undermine the Party choice (be it Hillary who they claimed to support or Obama). Some fell for the trap, some were a bit more intelligent.

    Sites like this promoted anyone who wanted Democrats to fight all the way to the Convention and lose. So hello Heidi. You may not hate enough to be welcome here any more, hopefully you are.

    So NoQuarter as you are still in touch with the PUMA mob, what happened to TechDude and TexasDarlin? What happened to the money PUMA said they raised to clear down the debt of Hillary Clinton?

    Just saying?

    • Ferd Berfle

      Were you:?

      1. Born Stupid,
      2. Have stupid thrust upon you, or
      3. Achive stupidity all on your lonesome?

      Nevermind, the operative term is stupid and you have it in spades. Oops, is used a racist term. My bad.

      • I’mBitterandthinkobamastolemyboyfriend

        Comment by Ferd Berfle | 2008-12-27 10:23:10

        Were you:?

        1. Born Stupid,
        2. Have stupid thrust upon you, or
        3. Achive stupidity all on your lonesome?

        Nevermind, the operative term is stupid and you have it in spades. Oops, is used a racist term. My bad.

        Maybe you could educate me then.

        PUMA was set up Darragh Murphy a John McCain supporter who donated to McWar in 2000. Will Bowers was the Fox News front man for PUMA.

        PUMA collected lots of cents (and your sense) from a good number of you. Will Bowers said it was more than enough to clear down the debt of Hillary Clinton and that Hillary did not need Obama or the DNC any more.

        No money went from PUMA to Hillary.

        Seems I am not the stupid one here.

        • Ferd Berfle

          You are a Kool-Aide sucking obamabot. Which part of you’ve been had are you failing to understand, dimwit?

        • Tricia Spiegel

          Don’t put PUMAs in one bag. First off,there were 5 different PUMA groups standing for different things. Some individuals made statements that were misplaced or in error (oh, you have never done that?).

          But I found most people who were associated with any PUMA to be sincere and concerned citizens–and for good reason. Just watch.

        • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

          PUMA didn’t get money from me. When they were asking to pay down Hillary’s debt, I donated directly to Hillary, as did most PUMAs because that is where the link went to HillaryClinton.com and I donated there long before PUMA was born. I do believe that PUMA did help Clinton because her debt went from $20 million to now $7 million. I’m sure that didn’t come from Obama supporters, now did it?

          • Ferd Berfle

            You are spot on. My money went directly to HRC and not through the money laundering machine run by That One.

            • Thinker

              Same here.

              I dontated directly on Hillary’s site.

        • rolling_thunder

          PUMA was set up Darragh Murphy

          WRONG. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF COLLECTIVE ENERGY? I didn’t think so.

        • memi

          Iambitter…

          You’re an Obamatron, STUPID and empty of logic like your phony SADDLEBACK MESSIAH!

          PUMAS are and will be here and Pumas are fed up with the UnDemocratic Party of Barack Oblabla. Now get lost, moron!

        • fif

          lol! These bots are really a riot. Of course, you SAY you want to be educated, but we know you have no interest in real facts or opinions that intrude on your highly subjective version of events. You obviously have a very distorted view of PUMAs. Darragh was a Hillary supporter. She donated a minimal amount to McCain years ago. Even so, Darragh is one person–as is Will Bower–and they do NOT speak for all PUMAs. We are a very diverse and independent collection that fall under an umbrella with a wide range of positions. The sole common denominator is that we did not support Obama.

          And your ridiculous statement that “no money went from PUMA to Hillary” is based on WHAT, exactly? Your basement view?

          Why bother…

          • oowawa

            We are a very diverse and independent collection that fall under an umbrella with a wide range of positions. The sole common denominator is that we did not support Obama.

            Very articulate summary of PUMA, fif.

            We don’t got to show no stinking badges.

      • slobodaneee

        The only thing stupid was your non reply to post. your ad hominen response didn’t answer the questions posed. NQ folks did want a fruitless convenntion fight to divide the party and PUMAs were boasting about paying off Hillary’s debt.

        • Ferd Berfle

          You are another Kool-Aide sucker, apparently. NQ “folks” wanted the convention to be a conventio0n and not a coronation, asshat. Shove your moronic opinions up your rectal cavity.

        • memi

          slob o’daney

          This is a slob’s logic indeed. PUMAS were and are Hillary supporters and sure they were upset with Empty Suit Oblabla to vote for McCain. He at least had moral judgment and ethics. Your Obalalla was a prep shcool boy whose non=typical grandma was a V-P at a Bank! He never had a girlfriend in high school or university and thus became a bitter Misogynist who was also CATTY as hell:

          “the claws are comin’ out”
          “Hillary Periodically feels down and start attacking…”
          “Obama gives Hillary the Finger” –watch this, moron, on youtube’s megahit vid hitparade! You’ll learn WHY we turned into PUMAS. And we’re reall, Obamabot, we bite …right into the votes for your precious closeted homophobe Messiah who, rather than kick Jon Favreau’s sexist ass out of the White House, promoted the Jerk to Director of speechwriting. Now go play in the basement and ask mom for a raise in your allowance.

          PUMAS against Slobs

        • fif

          A fruitless Convention fight?

          Ahhh…you repeat party line talking points well.

          Why do you think Conventions were originally created? Learn some history, before exposing your ignorance. They were originally designed for floor fights, and given the terror and extortion that was used to coerce all HRC delegates, there was serious concern that she could win a floor fight. Especially since she actually WON the popular vote and most of the major primaries, instead of gaming obscure caucus states to rack up delegates. If the will of the people had been represented as it was intended at the Convention, HRC would be president-elect. The Obama campaign knew it, and with the DNC’s complicity, rigged the Convention vote like everything else. If it was a danger to “dividing the party,” then why did Obot Supreme Ted Kennedy take it to the Convention when he had a deficit of 700+ delegates?

          • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

            PUMAS never claimed to pay of Hillary’s debt.

            PUMA blogs merely tried to help pay off her debt.

            • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

              I am a PUMA who helped pay off Hillary’s debt. Not by much, but what I could.

    • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

      Oh-Oh. It looks like Obama stole my boyfriend’s boyfriend now.

      Maybe you should just keep your mouth shut by doing a little favor for Obama, if you know what I mean.

      • I’mBitterandthinkobamastolemyboyfriend

        Comment by obamastolemyboyfriend | 2008-12-27 10:30:25

        Oh-Oh. It looks like Obama stole my boyfriend’s boyfriend now.

        Maybe you should just keep your mouth shut by doing a little favor for Obama, if you know what I mean.

        Without the slightest bit of irony, on a blog condemning homophobia, you are being homophobic. I guess it makes a vhange for you.

        Still some understanding of what happened to PUMA money and supporters would be interesting.

        • Ferd Berfle

          The PUMA money was probably pocketed by the one whom you adore, twit. Now answer my question–were you born stupid, achieve it, or have it thrust upon you? I think you were born that way so I’ll just chalk up your low-brow blather to ignorance and a decided disconnect with reality.

          • rolling_thunder

            The PUMA money was probably pocketed by the one whom you adore

            YES I AGREE. THE HILLARY DONATION LINK WENT TO HIM WITHOUT OUR KNOWING.

        • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

          I’m not being homophobic. I’m just saying that you love Obama and love to do favoirs for him and so you should go do it. Do whatever makes you feel good.

          I can’t stand Obama and did not voted for him. I don’t see how that is bitter or homophobic. As for Obama stealing my boyfriend, that is true. My boyfriend was a very smart, perceptive, fun guy until Odrama came along. Then his guy won the election. I was not going to hold it against him, no matter what Odrama does because he was unimformed. The funny thing is that his guy won and he is now very angry. WTF is that about?

          Tell me, I’mBitterandthinkobamastolemyboyfriend, why are Obama supporters so angry now that their man of choice won the election?

          p.s. I’m sorry you are bitter and Obama stole your boyfriend, too. I got a new boyfriend who is really cool and he voted against Obama. I’m sure if you can set aside all of your anger, you can have a new boyfriend, too!

          • Ferd Berfle

            Tell me, I’mBitterandthinkobamastolemyboyfriend, why are Obama supporters so angry now that their man of choice won the election?

            It’s called a cult. No further explanations are necessary, although enticing them into havig a mass group-grope in a South American locale would be a stellar idea.

          • Soldier of Christ

            Don’t worry- if this blog doesn’t like the fact that you are not “gay happy” – they blog you- to have your opinion on things is not acceptable here, child- that is why you don’t see the regulars anymore- I will be very surprise if the writers post this comment too.

          • Thinker

            why are Obama supporters so angry now that their man of choice won the election?

            - I know!! Talk about a bunch of sore winners. That one won, but yet they are still angry, posting on sites that are clearly anti-Kool aid.

            I NEVER post on sites that are pro-Obama. I don’t like him, I don’t want to talk to people that support him, going on those type of sites are a waste of my time. You would think that a pro-That one supporter wouldn’t even want to be on this site, but here they are, day, after day, after day.

            I guess they are 400 Paid bloggers that Obama hired a while back. Paid little bots working for that change, lol.

        • rolling_thunder

          Bite it BEOTCH!..who cares what you want to know about PUMAS..beat it. Get a life!
          DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. They devour threads. DO NOT RESPOND ANYMORE TO THE TROLLS FOR NOBAMA.

        • memi

          OBAMA O’BLABLA IS CLOSETED. DOES THIS MAKE ME A HOMOPHOBE?

          OBAMA NEVER HAD A GIRLFRIEND IN COLLEGE OR ANYWHERE BEFORE THE PROUD MICHELE.
          DOES THIS MAKE ME A HOMOPHOBE?

          OBLABLA WAS VERY CATTY IN HIS NASTY COMMENTS AGAINST HILLARY AND OTHER WOMEN?
          WHY?

          OBAMA PROMOTED PUNK FAVREAU TO DIRECT OF PLAGIARISTS. WHY DIDN’T HE KICK HIS ASS INSTEAD OF KISSING IT?
          AM I Homophobic?

          No. I just Obalbla to do the right thing as first catty nasty misogynist and closeted prez-elect: RIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET WITH SADDLEBACK WARREN….

          • mary

            “DISSENTING JUSTICE” is a terrific blog and talks about Gay rights and racism and sometimes misogyny.
            Daren Hutchison will set you STRAIGHT on just who is HOMOPHOBIC! He’s a great formidable foe of Homophobes!

          • Thinker

            Wouldn’t it be amazing if it’s finally proven that Obama is bi-sexual? Talk about the Audacity of Hypocrisy. Having sex with another man on the downlow, and supporting an anti-gay pastor in public??

            Any psych professionals on this board?

            His pastor pick is very telling. He knows that he is gay, but tries to put on a front in public.

        • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

          What she said was not homophobic. If you love Obama so much, just ask him Obama if you can do it.

          • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

            He’ll say no to you because there are millions of Obama supporters lining up to do it. And then some.

      • Ferd Berfle

        That One will have to actually do some work to keep his mindless minions from wreaking havoc on his hopey-changey agenda. They’re f-ing it up for him, bigtime.

    • fif

      Most of the “pretend Democrats” you talk about were fighting for Dem causes before you were even born. They actually know their Democratic history and passionately support the fundamental principles of the party–which were egregiously violated by the Party leaders and the Obama campaign. Your petulant ignorance speaks for itself.

      One of the best principled fighters is Heidi, a Georgetown Law Professor. Would you like to compare your knowledge of the party and democratic principles? That’s a debate I’d like to see–if you could call it a “debate.” And BTW: Heidi organized The Denver Group–their main intent being an open and fair Convention (as you ridicule the effort). Why would there have been such a concerted effort to prevent that, and documented cases of delegate intimidation and coercion of delegates if HRC was going to “lose?” We all know the answer to that: the candidate who won more votes than any other in primary history was the real winner. The DNC leaders had a different agenda. Gullible and uninformed people like you don’t recognize and understand what really happened–because the media suppressed all information that did not support that agenda.

      You are not here to add intelligence to the discussion, just to sneer like an adolescent.

      • tek

        fif: your comment reminds me how interesting it is to listen to our college age children who are all ‘bots. They honestly think Bill And Hillary Clinton eat babies or something. They have complete confidence in OB but every policy they mention that they think he’s going to implement is one of Hillary’s ideas.

      • stodgie

        hey fif, go take a political history course and then get back to us. many of us are old time demcorats with decades in the party. we know the history backwards, forward, upside down, and inside out. if you rely on a professor or the media for your insights, then you are a damn fool. we know about fdr, truman, jfk, johnson, and clinton. WHAT IS VERY CLEAR IS THAT YOU BOTS DON’T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT WHAT A DEMOCRAT REALLY IS ANYMORE. YOU SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO SOLD THEIR SOULS AND SOLD YOU OUT FOR A FEW PEICES SILVER. YOU ATTACKED THE LAST 8 YEAR DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT THAT YOU ARE LIKELY TO HAVE FOR DECADES. THEY DEMOCRAT PARTY WILL SCREW THIS UP BIG TIME. THANKS FOR NOTHING!

        • FembotsForObama

          stodgie,

          I think you directed your reply to the wrong person. Fif is responding to the Obots, as evidenced by:

          “Most of the “pretend Democrats” you talk about were fighting for Dem causes before you were even born. They actually know their Democratic history and passionately support the fundamental principles of the party–which were egregiously violated by the Party leaders and the Obama campaign. Your petulant ignorance speaks for itself.”

          It’s the Obots who have no understanding of the party process. They believe that what happened this year at the convention was standard operating procedure of the party because someone on TV told them so.

          Like I said, I’ve been a party member for over 20 years, attend local party meetings and have always campaigned for Democrats until this year because of Obama, his followers, and the DNC.

          Hopefully, this comment gets posted because my other ones are going into spam.

        • fif

          uh…stodgie: I think you misread my post…I am an original die-hard PUMA, and proud of it. I fought tooth and nail for HRC, my state Senator.

        • fif

          Most of the “pretend Democrats” you talk about were fighting for Dem causes before you were even born. They actually know their Democratic history and passionately support the fundamental principles of the party–which were egregiously violated by the Party leaders and the Obama campaign. Your petulant ignorance speaks for itself.

          Stodgie: reread my post…I am making the exact point you are making–that most of the people the Bot is attacking were fighting for the Dem Party long before they were even born. That doesn’t mean Heidi is not one of them, whether she is a college professor or not.

          And please, please, don’t confuse me with a Bot…shudder. I have been fighting them for months on this site and many others. :)

    • mary

      ImBitter….

      You are very bitter, friend,and it shows. Where’s your Xmas spirit, if not your reasoning powers?
      The PUMAS were, are and will remain true to the democratic principles of Democracy. The DNC rigged the nomination process and the misogynist media fratboys (whom you cheered on) pushed an unqualified, Empty Suit to a fraudulent ‘finish line’ of superdels. Read about it, to get enlgightened.

      No, bud, PUMAS are not camouflaged Republicans. They believed in Hillary, they believed in Women’s equality and gay rights and they rebelled against simpletons like yourself who refused to believe that your anorexic resume-Messiah would sink on the untested Water he seemed to walk on for months! PUMAS =is, in fact, the REBIRTHING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY and the going back to the roots of Democracy itself celebrating what Hillary famously shouted in Bejing (were you a fetus then?) in l995:

      “HUMAN RIGHTS ARE WOMEN’S RIGHTS
      and Women’s rights are human rights”

      Go read the Speech, bitterOblabla supporter and see the Light. As a ObaMyopic, you’re severely afflicted with Obamyopia and you’ll need the cure to be able to see and even think clearly….The PUMAS have the cure but you’ll have to wait 4 years till your Messia has sunk and everybody else who’s swimming with him now. Grow up!

      • FembotsForObama

        mary, LMAO

        I might add, we still are rebelling and refusing to believe in the empty suit.

  • jbjd

    As usual, Professor Li’s literary pontification could have benefited from substantial editing. (Her use of the ‘either’/'or’ conjunction was often twisted like a pretzel, not only lacking parallel construction but also requiring 2 and 3 readings to get to the point.) Buried in this convoluted drivel, the only words that count are these.

    I refused to vote for John McCain for a number of reasons but among them was the fact that while I knew he had the capacity for moral leadership, I did not care for the directions toward which his moral commitments would lead my country. I refused to vote for Barack Obama because I knew he came up empty on the capacity for moral leadership.

    In other words, Professor Li thinks JMc is moral but misguided in his politics and that BO is politically sound but immoral; and so, she did not vote for either man.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Indeed.

      • Andrew P

        Agreed. When I got to “As is clear from what I have written so far,” somewhere in the fourth or fifth paragraph, I laughed out loud. It’s pure 0-speak, and the compulsion to to say it is the dead giveaway that the opposite is true.

    • fif

      LOL! If you think Heidi thinks BO is “politically sound,” you really don’t know Heidi Li!

      If you are such a grammatical expert, where is your web page, so we can come and critique your work with such disrespectful condescension? Heidi works tirelessly for Dem causes–what is it you do exactly, besides visit other people’s posts and pretend to be of such superior intelligence?

    • Mirlo

      What’s your real point?

    • okasha skatsi

      How nice that you’re acquainted with either/or. Unfortunately, you appear to need remedial reading instruction. Nowhere in the passage you quote does Dr.Li say she considers Obama “politically sound.”

      I have to say that you Obats are extremely interesting from a toxicological point of view. I’ve never seen anything before to indicate that Kool-Aid produces hallucinations.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Those who don’t vote and then whine about the outcome get no sympathy from me. The only votes I ever cast for a President who eventually won the position was for Big Dawg. Every other vote went nowhere but I made the effort.

    • tek

      Kudos to Ferd! I hope the Big Dawg is going to be “behind the scenes” in D. C.

  • http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com InsightAnalytical-GRL

    The PUMA mob??? Well, we’re still here, because it has always been about the loss of our democracy, not about specific candidates!

    In this case, Obama’s actions and words helped us see behind the curtain!!!

    I wish Fatima Bhutto were here! What courage! And her perspective on “hope and change” –so prescient!!!

    One year ago today, Benazir Bhutto was assassinated.

    Her niece, Fatima, has some interesting things to say about her…so reminscent of here….you would think she’s talking about America…her comments about “change and hope” which she mentioned in a March 2008 interview are right from today….

    After “Aunt Benazir’s” Assassination, Fatima Bhutto Still Fighting to Reveal the Truth

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/after-aunt-benazirs-assassination-fatima-bhutto-fighting-to-reveal-the-truth/

    • oowawa

      One year ago today, Benazir Bhutto was assassinated.

      Thanks for the reminder, InsightAnalytical-GRL.

      I hang my head in respectful silence.

  • slobodaneee

    I’m no fan of Rick Warren or Obama’s decision to invite him but it is inkeeping with Obama’s call to dialogue with those that you don’t agree with every point. I don’t believe Warren will have any influence on Obama’s policies. In fact, I think the right will be upset with Obama greatly when he lifts Bush’s abortion counseling ban. no president does everything his supporters agree with. i’m sure there are some who claimed to be real democrats and supporters of bill and hill who did not hold it against hill for her and bill’s support for DOMA.

    • fif

      Unbelievable that ANYONE calling themselves a liberal, progressive or a Democrat would rationalize the Warren pick. He is not just “having a dialogue” with this misogynistic, fundamentalist bigot: he is granting him a place of honor and support at a historic moment! You do not see the difference?! How would it be if John McCain had chosen a white supremacist minister to give the invocation in the spirit of “inclusion?”

      Why didn’t Obama choose a Buddhist, an atheist, or a Muslim. Ask yourself why his ministers are all evangelical homophobes who think women should be subservient to their husbands? Wright, Pfleger, Meeks, Caldwell, and now Warren? Put the pieces together.

      • HC

        Obamabots cannot put the pieces together. If they could we would not be in this situation :)

        • Thinker

          ;)

    • Elizabeth

      It’s an confusing gesture for this arena. Most people will take an invocation as consciously projecting a tone and direction for the upcoming administration. A mutual dialogue is what happened at the Saddleback forum. Where’s the lingering conversation follow through for a prayer ?

    • alibe

      I will believe the call for dialogue BULL, when 0bama has a white supremicist giving the benediction. Rick Warren is a pompous ass with views abhorrent to any decent individual. The fact that 0bama asked him to the coronation of the fool is emblematic of the scam 0bama perpetrated on the people of this country.

      • mary

        alibe

        I agree.

        Please read Daren Hutchison’s blog “Dissenting Justice” He’s got it nailed and he is no one’s fool. Prez Oblabla is EVERYONE’S fool. He aims to please and principles be damned!

      • fif

        Obama could have chosen ANY conservative minister opposed to gay marriage as his SUPPOSED outreach of inclusion, but instead, he chooses a raging homophobe who equates gay relationships to incest, pedophilia and polygamy! That doesn’t even include his views on women’s roles which are Medieval.

        The “inclusion” excuse is just spin–that Obama supporters eagerly grab onto for any justification to perpetuate the fantasy–that was concocted to offset the immediate outrage to the Warren selection.

    • rolling_thunder

      nOBAMA IS A POLITCAL MORON. He can scam the vote and cheat as per his Chicago mobster upbringing, but he has no idea how the party politics goes in D.C..geez grow a brain
      SLOBodaneee
      :lol:

    • FembotsForObama

      Obama choosing Warren is political pay back.

      It’s done in the guise of bringing more voices of differing views into the fold. Expect more to follow —–$$$$$$$ from Obama’s promised expansion of the Faith-based Initiatives program to even more evangelical churches. Like W, we’ll see how many other alternative churches Obama includes in the hand outs. Hint: under W, it was NONE

  • Tricia Spiegel

    It felt so strange for the first time in my life to vote for no one.

    • Five Thirty

      It felt so strange for the first time in my life to vote for no one.

      You should have been in Massachusetts in 1990 (89?) when the choice was Silber vs. Weld. I’ve never entirely figured that one out. It was the anti-choice DINO against a Republican. I would love the know the back story on *that* one.

      • jbjd

        I was in MA in 1990. Having organized clerical workers at BU, when John Silbur was President and tried to fire Howard Zinn; I could not vote for him for Governor. Yet, I could not not vote. And so, I voted for Weld. Even more surreal, I attended his victory party, with a couple of like-thinking friends. Surveying the party-goers, we noted, the R’s definitely looked different from the D’s. (Back then, you could distinguish between the two just by looking.)

        • Five Thirty

          I have sometimes wondered if Silber was a ringer. I could not understand at the time how he got the Democratic candidacy for governor.

    • rolling_thunder

      Keep giving us the one-two punch in the stomach non voters. Spare us. We do not want to hear it. We patriots who voted Republican for the very first time to save our country feel sold out and jilted at the altar by non voters who knew that not voting was a vote for nObama.

  • http://heidilipotpourri.com Heidi Li

    Just a point of clarification for those who are confused: to say I did not vote for either of these men is not to say I did no voting at all, including at the top of the ticket. As wrote publicly and repeatedly at the time, I felt that conscientious abstention from voting for either major party candidate was a conscientious objection, particularly to the Democratic Party which had used a rigged nomination process, and got what they deserved as a result: an empty suit who cannot be trusted with liberal values – or really any values. A person who will take advantage of a public institution’s refusal to follow its own rules and procedures is extremely likely to be a person willing to game any and all procedures in the pursuit of personal ambition.

    But, all this is really a distraction from the main point, which I will spell out in simple terms.

    Whatever you thought during the election or the primaries, what matters is what you think now. If you believe that President-Elect Obama is unwilling or unable to be anything more than an empty suit, you better start organizing around an alternative for 2012 right now. Because President-elect Obama has beeen organizing his run for 2012 since at least June of 2008, and probably earlier, assuming he has planned on being twice nominated by the Democratic Party.

    • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

      Who in the democratic party could we back? With Hillary as SOS, it won’t be her. What politician can we have some faith in? No one comes to mind. Even if we did rally behind a candidate, starting now, we can see clearly from the MSM, the DNC and what is going on with Caroline Kennedy that we don’t have much say in the matter.

      I say we all rally around the vetting of Barack Obama to stop this farce from continuing. I do not believe that if the American people make a mistake that they have to allow that person in office for their entire term

      Oust Obama sooner, rather than later!

      • mary

        IT SHOULD BE HILLARY 2012! why the hell not?

    • jbjd

      This is not the first time I have responded to one of your postings in which you state, you did not vote for either BO or JMc. And I am one of those critics who never misconstrued this statement to mean that you did not vote in this Presidential election. Now, facing mounting criticism that you did not vote, you post a clarification that, you never said you did not vote. Of course, the opposite corollary is equally true. That is, you never said, you did.

      True to form, you present us with another example of your verbal gymnastics.

      • Mirlo

        Do you really feel better afterwards? What is the origin of your hate and bashing?

        • jbjd

          If I enjoyed the ‘bully pulpit’ occupied by Heidi Li, Professor of Law, Georgetown University, I would have advised voters last August to file challenges with their Secretaries of State to keep BO’s name off the general election ballot in their states on the grounds that he fails to satisfy the requirements of the office sought, as required as part of the ballot application process. (Most of the recent lawsuits filed to obtain an order from the court requiring the S’s of S to vet the candidate as to Constitutional eligibility – mandamus – have failed either because they were untimely, that is, the action sought was outside of the statute of limitations; or because they were not grounded in law, that is, no specific law required the S of S to vet the candidate. This is different from challenging a S of S to keep someone off the ballot because he fails to fulfill the requirements listed for ballot access.)

          I would be spending these last few weeks before BO is scheduled to be sworn into office educating the public that he is not a NBC on account of this admission he posted on his web site, “Fight the Smears”: he was born a dual citizen of the U.S. and Britain/Kenya. I would not be setting up a new organization dedicated to filling top governmental jobs with enough women to match their percentage in the general population.

          Instead, Ms. Li is writing essays, condescendingly castigating

          • mary

            jbjd

            Alas! Having read your posts, I have concluded that your pontifications are mere externalizations of a dangerously-inflated ego that will burst at the mere mention of women’s equal representation in any political venue.

            How commendable, yet simultaneously illogical and condescending, learned friend, that you feel that:

            “setting up a new organization dedicated to filling top government jobs with enough women to match their percentage in the general population”

            does not have intrinsic merit worthy of your support. Why, pray tell, jbjd? May I infer, without being accused of being misogynistic (I am, assuredly, a biological and psychological Woman) that you are merely a male supporter of democracy but would prefer to adhere to mere overconsumed technicalities, such as dual citizenship, to ensure the overthrow of the farcical despot, aka “Prez-elect”, whom we commonly find lacking moral substance? I just can’t understand your vitriolic, peripherally misogynist obamyopic tendencies. You cannot, therefore, be a member of the 51% Majority, right?

            • jbjd

              I specifically stated throughout my comments to Ms. Li’s posting that my objections to her use of what I termed is her “bully pulpit” were based on the fact that, instead of focusing on preventing BO from occupying the White House on January 20, she is involved in other endeavors intended to bear fruit after the inauguration. In other words, I complained she could have begun her new group on January 21. (I did not respond earlier because I was consulting with Dr. Orly Taitz, who called to discuss my proposed legal strategy as to how to file a federal lawsuit to contest BO’s Constitutional eligibility for POTUS, which will survive a challenge to standing.)

          • fif

            You certainly make a lot of excuses for why you can’t do what you propose, but do not hesitate to tell others what they SHOULD be doing. Heidi doesn’t waste her time posting nasty, condescending drivel on sites–she is too busy taking action and raising funds for causes she believes in, and she always does so with respect and grace.

            You, on the other hand, are filled with negativity and spend your time posturing to prove how intelligent you think you are.

            B-O-R-I-N-G.

        • jbjd

          If I enjoyed the ‘bully pulpit’ occupied by Heidi Li, Professor of Law, Georgetown University, I would have advised voters last August to file challenges with their Secretaries of State to keep BO’s name off the general election ballot in their states on the grounds that he fails to satisfy the requirements of the office sought, as required as part of the ballot application process. (Most of the recent lawsuits filed to obtain an order from the court requiring the S’s of S to vet the candidate as to Constitutional eligibility – mandamus – have failed either because they were untimely, that is, the action sought was outside of the statute of limitations; or because they were not grounded in law, that is, no specific law required the S of S to vet the candidate. This is different from challenging a S of S to keep someone off the ballot because he fails to fulfill the requirements listed for ballot access.)

          I would be spending these last few weeks before BO is scheduled to be sworn into office educating the public that he is not a NBC on account of the fact, he was born a dual citizen of the U.S. and Britain/Kenya, which admission he posted on his web site, “Fight the Smears.” I would not be setting up a new organization dedicated to filling top governmental jobs with enough women to match their percentage in the general population.

          But instead of using her position to do everything possible to prevent BO from occupying the Oval Office, Ms. Li is writing essays that condescendingly castigate her fellow voters for exercising their Constitutional right to support this man for reasons with which she happens to disagree.

          • pat

            jbjd

            SHUT THE HELL UP AND STEP OFF YOUR BULLY PULPIT, YOU OBAMABOT TROLL.

          • stodgie

            dang jbjd you sure are in love with the sound of your pious self righteous bullxxx excuse for thinking!

            • Snickers

              I think jbjd has a very good point. And he is trying to do something to prevent That One from wrongfully taking office. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I have found his posts very informative.

    • Athena the Warrior

      I felt that conscientious abstention from voting for either major party candidate was a conscientious objection,

      I understood you perfectly clear. Voting for a third party person was still in effect, a vote for Obama.

      particularly to the Democratic Party which had used a rigged nomination process, and got what they deserved as a result: an empty suit who cannot be trusted with liberal values – or really any values.

      The entire country is going to be affected by Obama not just the Democratic Party. Millions of people who voted against this guy don’t deserve the carnage that this guy is about to wreck – and has already started wrecking on our society.

      Puting the country first meant holding your nose and voting for McCain not some misguided, noble ‘conscientious abstention’ vote. I really don’t mean to attack but the entire country and future generations of Americans are going to pay a heavy price because too many people needed to make ‘conscientious abstention’ votes.

      • Ferd Berfle

        I concur. A vote for McCain was certainy better than no vote at all. I have no patience with those who decline to make a decision when confronted with reality. The decison not to vote was a vote, ultimately, for That One.

        • NoTrollZone

          agreed.

      • Mirlo

        Athena, you are on slippery territory here: Remember Obamas advice to his followers:”get in their faces if they don’t…”

        You deny someone the right to vote their conscience?

        The entire world has been and still is terribly affected by a majority of Americans, with the help of the Supreme Court and heavens knows what fraud, electing G.W. Bush, not once, but twice.

        I don’t think Heidis’ abstention was misguided at all, there are people of value who think differently than you do. Your opinion and conviction may be right for you, but surely you don’t deny others to have a different set of values and principles??? It might even take more courage not to vote for either one than to vote for the lesser “bad”.

        • Athena the Warrior

          I’m not denying anyone the right to make that decision but it does have consequences. If you wanted to protect the country and the best way given the choices was to vote McCain even if you didn’t agreee with everything he did, wouldn’t you do it?

          I’m thinking of the future of this country. I certainly didn’t agree with everything about McCain/Palin but I’d feel a lot better about the future of America if we were a month away from their Inauguration.

          This bozo hasn’t even taken office yet and look at all of the events that are going on: Blago’s pay to play corruption; the economy continues to be mired in the sewer; a war possibly breaking out between Israel and Hamas; the Russians have warships headed to Cuba never mind they’ve moved into position around Poland.

          I’m not saying everything would hunky dory with McCain but I wouldn’t be worried about Putin flexing his muscles right now. I wouldn’t be concerned about foreign interests yet again having influence over an American President. Most importantly, I wouldn’t be concerned whether the newly elected President actually loved America at all and wanted to do the best he could for her.

          All of those so called ‘principles’ means nothing stacked against these situations our country is facing.

      • NoTrollZone

        Athena (great name by the way),
        I agree with you.
        The swiss block (those who decided to remain neutral) helped Obama.
        I am disappointed in them. Especially since many of them had followed the primaries and knew Obama’s dirty politics and his homophobia/sexism.
        That they now come here and say they were
        principled in doing this, I think simply shows an ongoing naiveness. They helped stick us with this clown. He is going to be a nightmare for our country.
        They need to own the part they have played in allowing this guy to gain (game) the position he has.
        For these journalists who wake up for a moment and twitch violently and say “oh, my, Obama’s done something wrong”.. well, what can you say to them. I’ll wait until they own their part in enabling the Zero. And see if they stay on him and work to reverse what they have done in pushing him.
        It’s not water under the bridge until they admit to the part they played in making that water rise in the first place.
        I see these “conscientious objectors” and I
        see “good german.”

        • Athena the Warrior

          Thanks No TrollZone. I don’t think people are prepared for how ugly things are going to get. I just saw an article about how states are so desperate that they are selling off assets.

          http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473364,00.html

          My home state of Ohio is begging the Federal government for relief.

        • Snickers

          Athena, NTZ, you state it quite eloquently. I read all of Professor Li’s articles and applauded her efforts through The Denver Group to achieve a roll call vote. I even donated money for their ad. She, more than many, knew what had been perpetrated by the DNC; she wrote about it and educated many of us. And to find out she didn’t choose to join us in our fight to make sure Obama didn’t win, trying to play “Switzerland” is an outrage to me. I agree with jbjd, we need to try to limit this man’s time in the oval office through legal channels. We have already witnessed the damage that one ignorant man in the oval office can do, our country doesn’t need a second example.

      • rolling_thunder

        the entire country and future generations of Americans are going to pay a heavy price because too many people needed to make ‘conscientious abstention’ votes

        AGREE. Ask those who have lost jobs or those who own businesses who are hanging on by a thread since nObama got selected in the GE, if your vote or non vote as a slap on the wrist to the party matters any. Foock party politics. Our lives are at stake. Go to RD blog and on any given day you can see them exchanging recipes and thoughts on growing gardens or giving advice for canning and preparing for the coming depression. YOU really don’t think we’d be facing this total collapse if Mac or Hill was our prez elect now DO YOU?

      • FembotsForObama

        I concur, and that’s because I personally had to struggle daily with the idea of voting for McCain over not voting for either. In fact, I still do struggle with it, but at least the Dems are giving me ever more reason to feel better about my choice.

        Like I’ve told so many Nader voters from 2000, who believed that they had to vote their conscience because Gore would win their respective state anyway and that they were now compelled to keep the Republicans from getting POTUS, Obama is the ONE you really should have voted against; W set us up for this state of lawlessness and disregard for the rule of law, and now Obama and this DNC is just perpetuating it.

        Some time you just have to stand up for what is right, no matter what you personally feel inside. good Germans is right.

      • FembotsForObama

        I concur, and that’s because I personally had to struggle daily with the idea of voting for McCain over not voting for either. In fact, I still do struggle with it, but at least the Dems are giving me ever more reason to feel better about my choice.

        Like I’ve told so many Nader voters from 2000, who believed that they had to vote their conscience because Gore would win their respective state anyway and that they were now compelled to keep the Republicans from getting POTUS, Obama is the ONE you really should have voted against; W set us up for this state of lawlessness and disregard for the rule of law, and now Obama and this DNC is just perpetuating it.

        Some time you just have to stand up for what is right, no matter what you personally feel inside. good Germans is right.

        But let us not forget the estimated 10 mill Republicans who didn’t vote at all. Even if you account for some of them being from a state like I am where you are not required to register a party to vote, that would leave at least 1/2 who would have been shown to switch parties to vote, so 1/2 didn’t vote at all.

      • Snickers

        Thank you, Athena, I totally agree.

    • ritamary

      Maybe Obama will be too busy running for 2012 to do his job as president. Of course when he didn’t do his Senate job he was not under the spotlight as he is now. It really must be surprising to Obama now that reporters are asking him one or two serious questions. He did say he thought they were just trying to have fun with him.

    • HC

      Ms. Li your vote is your business but I will always believe that voting against Obama was necessary this year.

      As far as 2012 – what will change?

      Obama will get the nod from the democrats again. Unless folks stand up and say NO by voting against him in the general election he will be our president twice. This is reality.

      I dont know you from anyone, I liked The Denver Group, but this argument is sticking in peoples craw for a reason.

      Voting third party (effectively voting “present”) wont change a thing in American politics. And one of the best of us voted present. Disappointing.

  • benny

    Although I disagree with bits and pieces of heidi’s thinking, her judgement of Obama being an ‘empty suit’ is spot on. Hes a ‘use and throw’ politician. At this time of crisis in various spheres, his leadership is bound to be disastrous for the nation. It’ll take some time for the obots to realise this fact. Many Bushies turned against Bush. In the same way, many obamacrats will turn against obama, but by that time, it’ll be too late. A difficult road awaits our nation.

    • rolling_thunder

      A difficult road awaits our nation.

      It will be an unprecedented collapse.
      No one is prepared for it.
      With the know nothing blah blahma at the helm it is scarier than when Bush won.
      Suicides are up due to lost jobs and lost investments. Your so called non vote has far more reaching affect than you may ever know.
      So much for slapping the party’s wrist.

  • cat

    Here he comes to save the daaaayyyy!!!:

    Comment by benny | 2008-12-27 11:12:47
    A difficult road awaits our nation.
    _________________________________

    And that is the point. Thank you for refocusing this discussion.
    It’s not about Heidi Li-it’s about Obama.

    We need a candidate and a plan for 2012 if he is to be stopped.

    • oowawa

      We need a candidate and a plan for 2012 if he is to be stopped.

      This seems to be a reasonable statement, cat. However, my crystal ball is very murky right now, and it never did work that well in the first place.

      It seems to me that we need to watch for a while to see what happens. The one thing we can certainly count on is that we are in for unexpected surprises. A plan of action will gradually become clear from the swirling dust clouds. Right now, I can’t see the way ahead: does anyone see anything clearly?

  • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

    Both were horrible choices so I could not in good conscience vote for either.

  • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

    As far as lesser of two evils, sleaze/corruption/misogyny/homophobia and Republicans are equally horrific to me.

  • bayareavoter

    Thank you Heidi for another good read.

    The first thing I thought of when I heard about the Warren pick was that Obama was already campaigning for 2012. He doesn’t care what the gay and liberal communities think–where are they gonna’ go? This is his early bid for evangelicals and other conservatives.

    I’m so sick of this guy and he hasn’t even taken office yet. And I’m done with the Dem party.

    But Heidi, who would run against him in 2012? Most of my Hillary-supporting friends are totally into Obama now and I don’t think there are enough of us who are disillusioned.

  • oowawa

    and I don’t think there are enough of us who are disillusioned.

    Yet.

    • bayareavoter

      Ha!

  • AF catfish

    As a Democrat I have no regrets voting for John McCain. McCain is the epitome of someone who takes stands when it’s difficult to do so. He took our side on immigration, on Social Security (he proposed the same fix that was done in the 1980s,) he even proposed and repeatedly promoted Hillary’s idea on the mortgage crisis – as late as the night before election day.

    He also showed leadership by suspending his campaign to go back to Washington. As many of us recall, Obama said “they’ll call me if they need me.” The media, as usual, said Obama took the more admirable track on the financial crisis. The media, as usual, was wrong. McCain was a leader, and Obama followed him to Washington that week.

    • oowawa

      I agree with you Catfish. And I am not ashamed to say that I greatly admire Sarah and her family.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Great post, thank you.

  • MrMike

    There is no viable Democratic Party challenger for Obama at this time. Wait until the 2010 midterms for that to shake out.
    As for me, I voted a straight republican ticket (lesser of two evils) because after what happened no Democrat will get my vote until changes are made.
    I voted for Bob Casey Jr over his rival Chuck Pennacchio even though he was prolife. I went with the person able to oust Rick Santorum. My republican vote was a compromise along the same lines. I’m still a registered Democrat only because I’ll get to vote against Chris Matthews should he decide to sell his palatial estate on Nantucket and grace us with his presence here in PA. Unless that is he is the weaker of candidates against Arlen Specter, then Chris gets my vote.

    • oowawa

      Ah yes, seeing Chris Matthews, the obnoxious Tweety, go down in flames–that would indeed be sweet. I’ve even thought of a good anti-Matthews campaign button:

      Defeat the Tweet!

      • stodgie

        well tweety’s challenger, if there is one, will have plenty of tapes with lots of evidence that tweety doesn’t have a clue and is a liar to boot.

  • Shtuey Shtuey

    Welcome to NQ Heidi!

    Unfortunately, it is becoming more and more clear that what I have suspected since 2000 is true: the Democrat Party is not interested in moral or ethical leadership. Any soul can be sold in the name of power. I would think that a candidate representing moral leadership is the last thing the DNC wants.

  • Anne

    Gen. Wesley Clark! Come out from under the bus!

    nice thought for 2012, but unless something happens during BO’s administration or ENOUGH SUPPORT FOR OUTING HIS INELGIBILITY arises by 2012, the Dem’s are stuck with him as the nominee again.

    • oowawa

      Gen. Wesley Clark! Come out from under the bus!

      Hey, I could get excited about that . . .

  • NoTrollZone

    I think the focus needs to be on ending Obama’s political career. It’s where a lot of us starting after we had seen the type of person and politican he is.
    I am guessing that when Obama starts finally (!!!!)
    being scrutinized and the press ends its
    seemingly neverending honeymoon phase, then dirt will pile up in amazing (do I need to say historic)
    amounts.
    When this happens.. guess what comes next?
    The dem party will be getting toasted and all those
    of weak mind will run to its aid.
    The next great propoganda line will be that we have to save the party from the republicans.
    Well, we had to save the party from the Obamacans, and the ignorant got in our way.
    This time, let it fall.
    Perhaps out of the ashes, something good will come.
    But when the line comes that we have to protect Obama to save the dem party, I hope that no one is stupid enough to fall for it.

    • rolling_thunder

      After 4 years of CrudObama, even daffy duck will be able to beat him if he doesn’t cheat again. After 4 years of Crudbama the country will be a third world nation. You think I’m kidding? Remember how we couldn’t believe all the shocks of 2008? Well we are in for a hell of a crash. Fraudbama is an ignorant asshole. He said the troops were in dire danger but told them to have a merry christmas anyway..fooking insect brain that he has, he can’t talk right.
      Why else does Hillary want fiscal control of the SoS? At least someone will be left with some money.

      • slobodaneee

        Poor you. wanting the worse for the country just to prove a point. I doubt your predictions will come true. in fact, i think things will be better in 4 years and obama will run on the old “Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago” and win reelection. HA HA! Poor mad PUMA. Raging against the wind.

        • Ferd Berfle

          You sound like a Bolshevik, comrade. Kindly take your crap elsewhere.

          • WildChild

            Actually slobodaneee sounds like a right fringer. They used to love that talking point right up until everything fell apart. Then suddenly bush wasn’t a conservative, which is the right fringe way of saying that he isn’t the bush they thought they knew LOL

            • Ferd Berfle

              You may be right. Those extremists all sound the same at the end of a long day.

  • stodgie

    it will be interesting indeed. i predict michelle won’t be able to keep her mouth shut. when and where? well maybe on some foreign trip where she meets some like minded sorts where she really feels proud and comfortable. now won’t that just be special!

    • slobodaneee

      Maybe Michelle will be caught on tape screaming “Whitey!” Seriously, you guys and gals are an interesting lot. Full of bitter bile directed at Obama and your fellow citizens who didn’t vote your way and clinging to any perceived morsel of anti Obama news. Although I never voted for Bush, I never hated or showed such disdain for Bush voters.

      • Ferd Berfle

        I never hated or showed such disdain for Bush voters.

        Is there any part of you own your candidate and we don’t that you are failing to comprehend, comrade slobodanee?

        • slobodaneee

          I have no problem supporting my candidate or any problem with you hating him. I’m just making an observation my bitter friend. It must really burn you up that at every turn Obama has beaten you guys. He defeated Hillary, rejected her as VP, and now she supports and works for him. Obama defeated your default candidate and the nigh incomprehensible substitute PUMA Princess, Gov. Palin. I hope she runs in 2012. She is very popular with the nutball base and would probably win the primary, but would be crushed in the general election.

          • Donna Brazile

            Slobberly:

            C+ on your response. A little to dramatic and lacks some authenticity. You have potential if you slobber a little less and make more astute comments.

            Stop the hate!

            • slobodaneee

              What hate? I’m happy. My candidate won and I come here every once in a while to laugh at the crazy folks. I mean you guys actually thought Palin was a good pick! By the way, most of your posts rate an F.

              • stodgie

                slowboat! you are fool and a rather stupid one at that. you ignore caroline’s lack of any real political stuffing and then attack palin. that makes you a fool and as dumb as that wannabe.

                • slobodaneee

                  the only stupid fool is you. find the post in which i stated caroline is qualified. you won’t because I never said that she was. in fact, i don’t believe she is qualified for the position. Not all democrats think she should be appointed senator. much to the dismay of some folks i know, i actually think Palin is more qualified for federal office than caroline because palin has at a minimum been elected to office before. i don’t like political dynasties, Kennedy or Clinton.

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    I never hated or showed such disdain for Bush voters.

                    Still you sound like a Romanov.

                  • stodgie

                    slowboat, got your shorts all wadded i see! hehehe! but you love zeros like obama? state for all us here and now right now exactly why obama is qualified to be anything but an junior attorney is a big firm in chicago. come on, we are waiting.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Stodgie,

                      I’m still waiting for you to cite your evidence that I said caroline should be a senator from New York. You can’t, because I never said that, but that is not surprising from PUMA/NQ crazy. As far as Obama’s qualifications, that has already been decided … overwhelmingly.

                    • stodgie

                      slowboat, come on now. you don’t know his qualifications or even worse you know there aren’t any. and please explain why caroline is so awful and obama is all that. waiting!

                    • stodgie

                      waiting for slowboat!!!! did you spring a leak?

                    • WildChild

                      I remember when shruby’s qualifications were decided on …overwhelmingly (LOL). It’s really amazing, no not amazing… astounding how many people can be absolutely and totally wrong all at the same time, all on the same day.

                    • stodgie

                      shrub was decided on despite his lack of qualifications. that is what has slowboat’s short all wadded right now. he is thinking, thinking,thinking sort of like a slow computer.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Slobmeister: Give me at least one qualification possessed by That One that makes him fit for high office. I’ll wait a couple of days while you think of at least one. I’ll give you a hint–it ain’t the community organizing but has more to do with Chicago politics, lying, and quid pro quo.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Hey Slobbie–are you paying attention?

                    • stodgie

                      the slow one is taking a much needed break.

                  • WildChild

                    It’s funny how something ain’t crazy when you support it. But if we oppose what you support it’s only because we’re haters.

          • WildChild

            you being a fringer maybe you can answer me this question. Why is hate the only reason somebody opposes the candidate the fringe is all gaga over? For eight years all the right fringers could come up with as our opposition to bush was hate. Without skipping so much as a beat, you left fringers start in with the same line of sheep talk.

            • slobodaneee

              I’m no fringer and I don’t think everyone who opposes Obama hates him. I think most of you do based on posts and all the nutball crap you guys believe, i.e. whitey tape, birh certificate crap, etc. A moderate and reasonable person that stumbled upon this blog would think you’re nuts.

              • stodgie

                slowboat, fess up you are an obot or you wouldn’t be here. it is either for money as in a job you desperately need or you are a glutton for punishment. i don’t care which but don’t try your self righteous bull on here. we know better.

                • slobodaneee

                  I supported Obama. I guess that makes me an Obot. Too bad for you there were more of us than there were more of you. insults don’t bother me either. the insults are fairly predictable. Obot, Obama Weenie, etc. All standard stuff.

                  • stodgie

                    slowboat, did you not get the request???????? come and inform us bitters here about how great obama is and why you think he is the one. come on! and why you are here? you need the job? it is fun? come on! that doesn’t fly!

                  • Donna Brazile

                    Well slobberly,

                    I’m going to have to lower your grade to a D- on your retort.

                    First, your imitation of Barney Frank spitting and slobbering while you talk is distracting to the listener.

                    Second, “the my side won” meme that you constantly use to defend yourself lacks originality.

                    Third, I took points off for a lack of sportsmanship. You know what I mean.

                    Pay attention, I sign off all my posts with stop the hate. I took it from my nutball twin, Donna Brazile Nut.

                    Stop the hate!

                    Everyone else keep your distance or I have no sympathy for you when you get showered in the spit spewed.

              • Ferd Berfle

                Crap? Try again, comrade. The only lies come from your side of the tracks and we’ve been dealing with them for months.

              • WildChild

                So then you’re saying that BOBO is in hate with himself because he believed in the whitey tape enough to make it number one on his fight the smears site and explain it away as a mere why’d he….before he scrubbed it off the site. LOL but then I always had a feeling the BOBO wasn’t all that happy with himself. A man who is comfortable in his own skin would just release his birth certificate when asked to demonstrate natural born citizenship when he’s running for president.. don’t you think :)

                • slobodaneee

                  Think about what you just wrote. In fighting back against smears it means the smear was true? I guess that means Hillary is a lesbian then since during the primary stated that she wasn’t.

                  • stodgie

                    well slowboat, there are rumors that are true and then there are smears, lies and nonsense put out there to stir the pot with rather silly, uninformed stupid voters. like the ones that voted for obama against their best interest is a good example! so some smears have some truth and some are blanant attempts to stir up hatred. your hero obama is great at that shit.

                    • slobodaneee

                      if you were a democrat who supported long time democratic positions, then voting with McCain/Falin would be voting against your own interest. Most democrats get that and that is why Obama won rather easily.

                    • stodgie

                      slowboat, don’t lecture me on democratic positions. the so called leaders in the democrat party certainly forgot it as they sold their souls to big corporations, caved into bush, supported the illegal iraqi war and helped bankrupt the country. yeah right!

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      if you were a democrat who supported long time democratic positions, then voting with McCain/Falin would be voting against your own interest. Most democrats get that and that is why Obama won rather easily.

                      Some of us vote country first, comrade. Take your dreck back to Serbia or wherever. You obviously have no concept of American democracy.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Ferd Bertle,

                      You are quite the self righteous one. I put my country first and voted with the vast majority of Americans for the best candidate and not for the 72 year old candidate who chose as his VP someone who proved herself so lacking in what was expected of someone who could assume the presidency that even conservatives admitted that she was not prepared to take over in an emergency. So much for putting country first.

                    • WildChild

                      WOW!! that really took a long time LOL. I hope you didn’t sprain a cerebellum formulating that response.

                    • slobodaneee

                      No just at dinner. Don’t you have a life outside of NQ? I guess not.

                    • WildChild

                      How do you sprain a cerebellum just at dinner? Is all the chewing just a little more then you can handle?

                  • WildChild

                    think about what you just said…

                    and all the nutball crap you guys believe, i.e. whitey tape, birh certificate crap, etc. A moderate and reasonable person that stumbled upon this blog would think you’re nuts.

                    BOBO being a nut who obviously hates himself has has nothing to do with bu but But Clinton, lesbian or not (LOL)

                • TeakwoodKite

                  comfortable in his own skin

                  That is an interesting observation when it comes to BO.

                  Here is a man-child, who by his own admission has never content about his skin, never mind “in it”. The “blank slate” is a symptom of this shallow egotisical fraud called Barry Soetoro.

                  I guess Motel 1600 will have to change it’s marketing slogan.
                  So much for Gideon’s great adventures.

                  After the victory gained by Deborah and Barak over Jabin, Israel once more sank into idolatry, and the Midianites (q.v.) and Amalekites, with other “children of the east,” crossed the Jordan each year for seven successive years for the purpose of plundering and desolating the land.

                  .

                  • WildChild

                    If this country slips into idolatry during the next four years it will be because BOBO has us all worshiping a dildoe, a job made much easier now that his weenies already are.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Damn, Wildchild, you’ll get Bob Herbert all in a dither over dildos and phallic symbols again. And MSNBC will be all a-twitter.

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      ..and to think I was worried about Jabin. LOL

                      Jabin (ja’-bin)is a biblical name meaning ‘discerner’, or ‘the wise’.

                      .

          • Ferd Berfle

            I don’t hate him, Comrade. I only say, as I have for the last year that he is unqualified and unfit for office. But then, you Stalinists have a penchant for loving unfit, unqualified morons as leaders.

      • WildChild

        LOL come on! Don’t leave us hanging like that. It’s we’re Full of bitter bile directed at Obama and your fellow citizens who didn’t vote your way and clinging to any perceived morsel of anti Obama news….. and your GUNS and your BIBLES.

        You’re slipping you precious little weenie (LMAO). Stick with the script or BOBO will call you to the back of the limo where your unquestioning loyalty will be tested to the fullest extent.

        • slobodaneee

          of course the “bitter” and “clinging” line were from the primary. All in good fun. I love the bitter and clining line because it was thought that Obama couldn’t win PA and Ohio and Indiana. Hill exploited it as did McCain and in the end it didn’t help either of them.

          • Ferd Berfle

            So Comrade, were you for or against Stalin’s offing of Trotsky? One snswer and you’re a dirtbag and the other you are also a dirtbag. Guess you lose. Next.

          • WildChild

            hmmmmm, so then I guess BOBO was wrong about the whole clinging thing in the primaries. LOL don’t fret yourself none. It won’t be the last time, but the next time he blows it he’ll be president. yes sir ree bob BOBO can blow it for all of us at the same time .

            • Ferd Berfle

              His real name is Slobodan and he’s a Milosevich. On the other hand, he could just be a comrade-troll-in-arms. How is one to know?

              • WildChild

                what difference does it make when you have them in the cross hairs? I don’t count the points on a trolls head when we’re off on safari.

                • TeakwoodKite

                  Saw a 4 gauge shoulder shotgun once. It was in the gun case at Sagamore Hill, Teddy Roosevelt’s residence.

                  The placard on the case said that Teddy had to put the butt of the gun against a tree when firing it, so as not to dislocate his shoulder.

                  See ya on Safari where points don’t matter. :) Happy hunting.

              • slobodaneee

                Do you have any other comments aside from lame communism/troll jokes? I’ll leave you with this prediction: in 4 years Obama will be reelected and you will beside yourself in grief, stuck in 2008 mode whining about how the rest of us just don’t get it.

                • stodgie

                  ahhh slowboat, you are running for cover. how predictable! you didn’t answer any questions. beside myself with grief? naw! i hope obama is very successful for american’s welfare. i think he’ll doing nothing more than he did in the senate which was nothing. so for you to expect great things from someone who has never done it strikes me as rather stupid.

                  • slobodaneee

                    This is like waiting for the whitey tape. Where is your citation for the caroline assertion you made? In January or February President Obama will sign into law the most far reaching economic stimulus package, hardly doing nothing. With a democratic congress I suspect that there will be a large number of things to praise and critize in the next 4 years.

                    • WildChild

                      any fool can spend money. LOL Chimpy spent money…. and we have nothing to show for it.

                    • stodgie

                      FACE IT SLOWBOAT, YOU CAN’T GIVE US ONE DANG REASON OBAMA SHOULD BE PRESIDENT. caroline? you don’t like her? right, sure! obama hasn’t done one damn thing. name it if he has. i’d be very interested. slowboat, you are not a good debater. weaving and dodging makes you look well very obot.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Whoa! stop shouting. I can’t leave this site for few minutes without causing such consternation. You haven’t answered my challenge for you to produce your false strawman assertions on caroline and you demand anything from me? This will be like a broken record that you won’t accept anyway, but here it is all over again: legislation that provided health care to the poor in Illinois and stringent ethics reform. in the senate, legislation on nuclear proliferation and the most stringent ethics reform in the us senate in years. in fact, for his short time in the US senate his record with regard to significant legislation was comparable with Clinton’s. This is not to rehash the issue though, because we (the American people) have spoken on that issue. You can whine all you want and shout at the moon, but it makes no difference.

                    • WildChild

                      For I guy with such “accomplishments” you’d think he’d keep records of his activities for all of posterity to study and learn from. But instead he keeps nothing and expects us to take his word that he did something more then slap his name on a bill.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Can you name Clinton’s bills and produce her supporting records or are those requirements only for Obama?

                    • stodgie

                      stop running from the truth slowboat! YOU CAN’T NAME ONE DANG THING THE ONE HAS EVER DONE FOR ANYONE BESIDES HIMSELF. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE PRESIDENT. YOU COME ON HERE INSULTING ALL OF US. NOW PUT UP OR SHUT THE FXXX UP! SIMPLE AS THAT!

                    • WildChild

                      Why would I have Hillary’s records of her senatorial activity? Unless what you’re really asking is why would BOBO have records of his senatorial activity, to which I would answer because he claims to be a constitutional scholar (LMAO) and what better way to bring it home to all of us lowly beings then to demonstrate to us and all of posterity that he did something more then slap his name on a few bills.

                      Pretty neat concept eh? :)

                    • stodgie

                      fellow posters, do you notice this obot, slowboat on here? he/she is on here demanding that we pay respect for ob obama. when asked why we should, he/she/it ducks/weaves/dodges/insults and has no ANSWER!

                    • stodgie

                      wildchild, slowboat doesn’t care about hillary. he/she keeps trying to change the subject. having been asked numerous times for examples of what obama has done to make him such a great president, he has no answers but brings up “sigh” the same old crap about hillary.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Stodgie and others,

                      I have answered your question, which is more than you have done with mine. Further, stop whining about being insulted. you and others here heap insult on top of insult on Obama supporters, yet you’re whining if someone fights back. Its been fun, but i don’t want to waste anymore of my time with you, especially since you seem to be losing your bearings.

                    • stodgie

                      losing my bearings? naw, i am laughing at you. you run when questioned. you aren’t much of a supporter for obama. you don’t come armed with information just deflection and a poor job at that. bye!

                    • WildChild

                      I hear you stodgie. Bu But BUT Clinton is always the last refuge of the fringe. First they come to power telling us all how different from the Clinton’s they are. Then they spend the remainder of their time in office trying to hide behind Bill and Hillary. It has to be the weirdest thing I have ever seen.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Well, I was about to leave. you either can’t read or don’t want to comprehend and its not deflection to point out your unsupported and false assertions. As for being a good Obama supporter, I am. I worked like hell during the primary and the general election. We did a wonderful job in North Carolina. I’m proud of the voters we signed up during the primaries when Obama blew out Hillary and the job we did during the general election to win the state, something no democrat in 30 years had accomplished. did you work hard for your candidates? Election night must have been hell for you. :)

                    • WildChild

                      is hell something you normally wish on people? Because that’s pretty fucking twisted

                    • slobodaneee

                      Wildchild,

                      I’ll spell it out for you, since you can’t understand why I mention Hill or Bill so often. When you guys mention how Obama has done nothing in the Senate, don’t you think it is fair for me to ask about what your favored candidates qualifications were? What I have always found amusing here is critisim of Obama that could be applied to your favored candidate. For example, during the primary Strawberry critized Obama spending plan and when I mentioned that Hill wanted to give every newborn $5,000 and wanted to spend millions on a crime bill without identifying how it would be paid for, Strawberry demanded citation to back up my assertions. After I provided both, a report from Iowa and CNN when Hill was in PA, I heard nothing more on that issue.

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      I don’t even know who the hell you are. Am I correct in assuming you’re from San Luis Obispo? Look, the simple fact is, if I want Hillary’s record all I have to do is a simple google search as well as remember all the shit she dealt with as First Lady. I don’t need to rely on a Barky supporter to tell me that the scab, Obama has done nothing. Google works just as well showing me Barky’s feeble record. Now you promisd you were leaving, don’t pull a Barky and go back on your word.

                    • WildChild

                      Hillary’s records of her activities in the senate have never been an issue. My guess is because she keeps records of her activities. It’s what professionals do. BOBO, in contrast, by his own admission leaves no paper trail. He has no records of his communication’s. He keeps no logs. He has nothing. So when you are saying that you have documented something that BOBO did vs something you said he might do, you can not be believed, because BOBO keep no records of what he did, and what he said he will do changes with his poll numbers. We are expected to take what BOBO says he did on faith. The only problem with that plan is we aren’t electing the countries religious leader. But if BOBO ever does decide to run for supreme mullah… LOL then he is most definitely your man.

                      Now having said that, if you want to keep hiding behind Bill and Hillary that’s your business. But be reminded that that simple act of saying bu but But Clinton throws your entire rational for a BOBO administration in the waste heap. LOL you spent 2008 arguing how different BOBO was from the Clinton’s. Now all we hear from you weenies is how alike the two are.

                      and, that makes you fringe.

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      Google works just as well showing me Barky’s feeble record. Now you promisd you were leaving, don’t pull a Barky and go back on your word..

                      In fact, as PM317 pointed out recently, Google intentionally redirects queries to BO (BOBO keep no records of what he did) even if he is not part of the request. This makes it hard miss an empty suit.

                    • slobodaneee

                      Strawberrybitch,

                      I’m glad returned prior to retiring for the evening. Back then you went by StrawberryBitesBarky and you and I did engage in the above described exchange. Wildchild, his legislative record is public. I have never seen Sen. Lugar dispute Obamas contribution to the work he and Lugar did on nuclear proliferation. Lastly, the point you can’t understand about Hill and Obama is that often you guys attack Obama on issues and positions that Hill would also be subject to attack. With that, I bid you all goodnight. :)

                    • Donna Brazile

                      Slobberly:

                      Your last grade for the night:

                      A+ for proving what we all know to be true, OBush nor his minions can keep a promise.

                      Stop the hate and sweet dreams!

                    • WildChild

                      (ROFLMAO) OMG, BOBOs public record amounts to nothing more then a list of bills he slapped his name on. That is what we have been talking about right. Are you really saying that the only documentation you have is that Richard Lugar didn’t dispute BOBO’s contribution to the work he and Lugar did on nuclear proliferation. What exactly did BOBO say he did that Lugar didn’t dispute? We kinda have to know that for it to be relevant to anything, don’t you think? This seems like a prefect opportunity for you to demonstrate some of those documentation skills you’ve been telling us about. But maybe you’d rather hide behind Hillary’s skirts instead. Maybe while your down there cowering, if your nice she’ll give you some pointers on how to defend yourself from some of those attacks she might also be subject to, without having to use her as your bullet catcher.

                      LOL it’s time to grow up now little BOBOweenie. This isn’t senior class president you got yourself into. If this is how you really plan on handling it, you’re going to fuck it all up just like the fringe that preceded you

                    • Donna Brazile

                      Goodness all they ever quote is Lugar.

                      Surely in his “lifetime” in the Senate, according to OBushes followers, he accomplished more that Lugare. Surely, he held a meeting of that NATO subcommittee he chaired. Surely, he’d follow through on his responsibilities. Surely, Kennedy let him slap his name on some bill. Surely!

                      Stop the hate!

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      WC, where do you get the energy? I read SLO’s reply and just got sooooo depressed. It’s like trying to discuss Iraq with a Bushbot. They twist and turn like twisty turney things. Sorry. I bought Hubby the Complete Blackadder series on DVD for Christmas and we’ve been doing a marathon while the snow melts. You say Obama’s record is none existant compared to Hillary and they say that Lugar never disputed Barky’s non-work on a nuclear proliferation bill. It’s like arguing with Gumby. PS if you don’t know what Blackadder is go to YOUTUBE and do a search. May I recommend the French clip followed by any Blackadder the Third clip. Oh the Shakespere interview was great too. Whoops! And Hamlet falls off a battlement.

                    • WildChild

                      I just love troll safari strawberry. You hook yourself into a big old troll and just let em fight. I truely do miss the right fringe trolls but these lefts fringe trolls are filling in quite nicely :)

                    • Strawberrybitch

                      I think I’m getting a bit too worn out for troll safari, WC. I’m going to stay back at the lodge sipping gin and tonics while you and the rest of the NQ big game stalkers thin out the herd.

                    • WildChild

                      Just save us a place at the bar girl and we’ll bring you the points off their fuzzy little heads.

                • WildChild

                  so then the next eight years will be a replay of the last eight years. LOL well at least we know what we have to look forward to.

                  • slobodaneee

                    it isn’t all about money. Hillary Clinton had money early on and so did Mitt Romney. That is the rationalization that bitter sore losers cling to as justification for their candidates loss.

                    • WildChild

                      are you talking to your invisible friend again?

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Dee-doo-it is all about money. Your comment has only proved my position that you obamabots are really a dim-witted lot. Money is speech according to the Supreme Court and your idol had the most. Try arguing your way out of that one, putz.

                    • stodgie

                      bitter losers? it is all about money? naw, romney still has his money. hillary has more than enough. it is the obama who are the poor folks here and that michelle wants her some!

                      obama sold what was left of his soul for money.

      • stodgie

        slowboat! if you actually admire ole michelle, i recommend you get medical care immediately. you need help as much as she does.

        • Ferd Berfle

          slowboat-LMAO

  • speaktruth

    Will Hillary still be SOS in 2012?

    I hope so but have no faith in BO keeping her on.
    So there is a possibility in Hillary for 2012. So many things could happen – if her really screws her – and the country – could there be a chance for her to run on third party ticket?

    I think it’s important for us to keep up the pressure for now – for
    women, for Clinton ideas and people, against Caroline and Warren, etc. Most important fight against caucuses, Iowa choosing our pres.,other inequities of our nominating system and election system.
    Even for possible third party that represents us.

    I think the leaders will begin to appear this way.

    • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

      If she resigns I could see her having a chance, but if Obama ousts her with some faux scandal then she can’t run realisticly.

  • http://baddemocrat08.wordpress.com obamastolemyboyfriend

    I really can’t think of anyone so far that I will be able to vote for in 2010 or 2012. That makes me so upset! I think that for a very long time I will have to vote against! What the hell happened to America and the values of her citizens?

    I feel like the voters just signed America’s death warrant. People who are party before country are no better than terrorists with their death to America values.

    Can we have a do over for 2008? Let’s start with a 2006 deportation of one Barack Obama! Then start the 2008 election cycle over!

  • okasha skatsi

    On the subject of conscientious abstention:

    Let’s remember that a decision to vote for a third party candidate or No One on Top had to be colored by the relative strength of the Republican and Democratic Parties in a given state. We do not have a direct plebiscite in the Presidential election. If you could not in conscience vote for Obama and had significant policy differences with McCain in a state that would go to Obama regardless of your vote, then a vote for a third party candidate or no candidate at all would be a viable ethical option. What was the likelihood of McCain taking DC? Negligible to nothing. A vote for a third party candidate in DC registers as a pure protest vote against both corrupt parties.

    A lot of us struggled with our votes this year. Not all of us came to the same decision. Let’s respect that, please.

    • oowawa

      Let’s respect that, please.

      Okay!

      Now we struggle onward into the murky uncertain future. The battle lines have been redrawn, and will no doubt be redrawn again. I’m afraid we have all been fated to live in interesting times.

    • rolling_thunder

      Respect that you bailed on helping stop bloviating Obarfbag?
      naw naw naw

      • okasha skatsi

        Is this directed to me? Because if it is, you’re making a chamois-like leap of illogic.

        For the record, I’m a Texan. Even though he would have taken the state without my vote, I voted for John McCain–the first time in my life I’ve voted for a Republican. I voted Libertarian–even though the Texas Libertarian party is populated exclusively by right-wing moonbats– downticket because then and now I can’t stomach either major party. Pure protest vote.

        In short, I voted a plague o’ both your houses and respect the votes of others who did likewise.

        If you don’t like that, allow me to suggest a recreational activity involving a railroad spike and a length of barbed wire.

  • http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Mountain Girl

    I can vote for Sarah Palin.

    • oowawa

      I

      can vote for Sarah Palin.

      Mountain Girl, I can, and I did. However, I respect her too much to want to see her get back into presidential politics. With the MSM the way it is, it would be like seeing a beloved sister move back in with her abusive husband. I want to see her continuing to do her job in Alaska.

  • candymarl

    That’s what I’ve been saying. All of the great leaders we’ve had, that Obama has been compared to, including Lincoln, took a stand for or against something.

    When Obama seeks support from someone that is in opposition to his supposed position what’s his answer?
    I’m trying to include everyone. Then where are the White Supremacists groups? Neo Nazis? The Klan? Why not James Dobson? Pat Robertson?

    If you can invite some supposedly opposed to your views then you can invite all.

    Warren is opposed, adamantly, to Roe v Wade. Where are the so-called feminists and Obama supporters warning us that Roe v Wade may be in danger?

    The same folks were upset with the ministers Bush hung out with. They had the same views as Warren. But they have no problem with Obama hanging out with the same type.

    Do you think when Obama expands the Faith Based Initiative Office Warren won’t be a part of that?? I’ve got swampland in Florida for ya. Oh yeah, and the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale.

  • AnnaT

    Hold on. So not voting for McCain, meant that you thought Obama was the best of the two evils, which basically cancels out everything you’ve said about Obama. WTF?

    • rolling_thunder

      Hold on. So not voting for McCain, meant that you thought Obama was the best of the two evils, which basically cancels out everything you’ve said about Obama. WTF?

      DING DING DING
      BINGO!
      WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE KIDDING?
      They will have blood on their hands in February when the economy collapses. No one will have money to go to college so the lay offs will affect professors too. No one will go unharmed! Are you prepared?

  • glennmcgahee

    Let me add to the empty suit memo. Remember when Obama urged all of the Democrats to donate money to him only. Not to any other group like the DNC, ACLU or any other cause. It was all for the power. The power that comes with money. Now, Obama is awash in the stinking money. Enough to vacay in Hawaii as often as possible. Enough to buy that fabulous $30,000 custom made diamond ring for Michelle’s finger. As the rest of the country and world crumbles, do you think for one minute that the guy that hasn’t ever held a real job in his life care one little bit what you and I think. He even wants the people at home to do the thinking by having their little house Partys. You can imagine the laughter coming out of their offices as they shred the suggestions sent in from those. “Let’s put on a play in the barn and raise money for the orphanage”. Yea, can’t wait to see all the little people get busy fixin America’s problems. We’re working on our infrastructure, “everybody show up at 7am, bring gloves and a shovel”.

    • oowawa

      Yes, and the world-problem-solving neighborhood house parties could also feature Tupperware and Bunco, to make them good wholesome wound-healing American social events. After all, we are the ones we’ve been waiting for. Enjoy your house parties folks, and please feel free to think that you’re actively engaged in solving the world’s problems. In the meantime, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Oh wait, that man behind the curtain is long gone, on vacation or gone shopping, perhaps.

  • IndieDogg

    Not to (hopefully not) start a tangent, but something from the campaign that puzzled me and I tucked away to re-visit further in the future (which I will).

    Something relevant to the point that sometimes we need to make a difficult choice to cast a vote for someone with whom we don’t totally agree because it’s the better choice for our (party, nation, PTA, city, state, book club).

    When asked about the rabid opposition to her candidacy by female pro-choice Democrats, Governor Palin gave a more nuanced response than I had expected. She said, (paraphrasing), “Well, I think we, as women, have much more in common that we do in opposition and, on that issue, I think we could start with something with which we all agree — that there are too many abortions performed in this country — and go from there.”

    I found that interesting. Doesn’t change who she is but adopts the position, “Start with common ground and go from there.”

    When you start at opposite poles, the journey is too long for most positions to survive the trip.

    Women got played in this election, as they have before, all out there mobilizing and canvassing and calling and putting out 120% of the effort of their male counterparts (as usual), but in the end totally neutralized, 49.999% on each side of the abortion fence. Even the more ironic considering neither choice would or will have the slightest effect on the subject.

    51% is a nice concept. At 60%-40%, you (women) could take over this country. Goodness knows we men have made a big enough mess of it.

    But that will never happen through enabling the abuser. Has that ever worked?

    • HC

      There were plenty of women out there campaigning against suffrage, saying voting was just too unfeminine and stressful.

      If women cannot agree that their own votes are important in our political system I doubt they will take over anything any time soon.

      • stodgie

        oh hc i don’t know. let them lose a few rights, get less money while being a single mother with a former husband who thinks he has the right to hit them, you might see a change.

  • oowawa

    Goodness knows we men have made a big enough mess of it.

    Thank God, my wife balances the checkbook.

    Here you go, sweetie. It’s the nation’s checkbook. Seems we’re a trillon or so overdrawn, but Do Your Magic! I’ll be golfing. If you need me for anything, just call.

  • http://N/A breeze

    Comment by obamastolemyboyfriend | 2008-12-27 09:59:36

    “I refused to vote for John McCain for a number of reasons but among them was the fact that while I knew he had the capacity for moral leadership, I did not care for the directions toward which his moral commitments would lead my country. I refused to vote for Barack Obama because I knew he came up empty on the capacity for moral leadership.”

    “Heidi Li, I really hate to criticize because I really respect all of your hard work in 2008, but there in above lies the problem. Everyone who refused to vote helped Obama win. Sometimes we cannot vote for something and we must vote against something. My choice to vote for John McCain was not a pro McCain one. It was an anti Obama vote. Having an abusive man as our leader is somewhere no one should have wanted to go and Obama is a verbally and emotionally abusive man, he is devoid of any true concern for people other than himself and this is a leader???? We will be so horrifically sorry and paying for this mistake for much longer than Obama holds office! The things I disagreed with John McCain with were not as risky, knowing that he would face a democratic congress. With Obama and a democratic congress there will be little oversite, little resistance to his crazy/costly policies. The choice was clear. No Obama, even if it meant a vote for McCain. McCain could have been contained and reasoned with, Obama out of control and no negotiating with that pig.

    I urge people from now on to take a stand themselves, even when it is painful and not your first choice. If you cannot vote for a candidate, vote against them. That is the only way we will stop these weirdos from controlling our country!

    Save America, always, always vote for the best person for the job because someone is going to get the job. You cannot stop that! We have got to weed out the crazies and the only way to do so is to put someone else, someone better, even if only slightly better, in! Had all republicans and all people opposed to Obama had voted, there is no doubt in my mind that McCain would have won and at least we know where he stands on issues. That is far less dangerous than having no clue where a politiican stands and even if he takes a stand, you can’t trust him to keep it.”

    Thank you, obamastolemyboyfriend!!!

    • http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Mountain Girl

      Had all republicans and all people opposed to Obama had voted, there is no doubt in my mind that McCain would have won and at least we know where he stands on issues.

      There is no doubt in my mind McCain would have won if the Republicans and Hillary supporters would have voted for him. In NC, Obama won by .4%. I am so disgusted with the people I know, who like Heidi, could not bring themselves to vote for McCain because they are addicted to a party that treated them like turds. I tried and tried to explain to them that not voting was a vote for Obama, but they just could not, or would not, get it. I am also disgusted with all of the Republicans who didn’t vote because McCain is a moderate. So, now, because of these two groups of people we have to live with a minimum of four years of fascism. Forget the Democratic party, Heidi, it is gone, done for at least four years. I mean, they moved it to Chicago….get the picture? Gone. Totally gone.

  • ford

    I voted for McCain, without regret. Welcome to Bush third term, without the convictions.

    Don’t think it can’t get worse.

  • AOK

    PUMAs failed to stop Obama because there were very few of you. You overinflated your numbers and your influence. You claimed millions when it was only a few thousand. You have no power, and judging from the nonsense constantly posted on this board, you have no credibility. McCain failed the the day he chose Palin. Palin may one day be ready for national office, just not this year. The exit polling pretty much told the story. America thought that McCain was too old to leave this nation a heartbeat away from the vastly over-matched Palin. Also, he looked erratic and unsure during the financial meltdown, while Obama looked calm and presidential. So the illusion that PUMAs staying home cost McCain this election is a fantasy.

    • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

      Who Were Those Clinton-McCain Crossover Voters?

      http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/11/12/politics/horserace/entry4596620.shtml

      16 percent of McCain voters said they would have voted for Clinton, the Democrat, if she had been her party’s nominee.

      Some of these may have been non-PUMA Republican women who wanted Hillary in the White House but this number, roughly six million, does not include those of us who abstained, voted for McKinney, or wrote in Hillary’s name.

    • Ferd Berfle

      If what you say is true, then why are you here pontificating, bozo? I see something else, which is your own inability to get your candidate loved by the rest of us. We won’t, you can’t, and you’re done, troll.

    • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

      Sorry, 9.5 million PUMAs voted for McCain against Obama.

      130 million voters turned out. 45.7% voted for McCain. 16% wanted to vote for Hillary.

      Again, this does not include PUMAs such as myself and Heidi who voted for neither, voted for McKinney, or wrote in Hillary’s name.

      SO there are more than 10 million PUMAS.

      • Ferd Berfle

        AOK is a coward who won’t respond, Donna.

        • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

          PUMAS. Ten million strong.

          I’m nice and usually say nine million.

        • http://donnadarko.wordpress.com donna darko

          That’s fine with me.

          I love your comments here, Ferd.

    • Chris

      And of course, Obama has sooooo much more experience than Sarah and oh yes, he was running for the top of the ticket. No one wanted to focus on that and how Obama was illegally pushed into the Presidental election and won by fraudulent means. This could have been stopped or at least held up and an investigaton done on his eligibility issues before the election. However, his machine had all the exits covered and used diversions and deflections to get people to focus on things that really were irrelevent. Sarah Palin scared the sh** out of them, a complication they hadn’t planned on, but also provided the biggest diversion during the campaign which they jumped on. The viscious attacks on her about every part of her private and professional life was clearly done for both the deflection from Obama’s question marks and because she was a very big threat to their carefully laid plans. If you think about it in retrospect, they did not find one thing that they could legitimately pin on her as a real problem. She’s about the cleanest politician ever to run on the top ticket. So they cranked up the Alinsky mechanations to a fever pitch, no holds barred. It’s so clear to see and with the msm’s help they again lucked out. Clueless Obamabots sucked it up and many American citizens on the fence were “persuaded” to jump on board the Obama train of illusion. Sarah Palin was almost our savior, but alas the people who should have stepped up–repubs who in the end didn’t vote and indies that chose OB–made the difference and so the false One got elected. He may look “calm and presidential” but that’s because he has absolutely no emotion inside his cold little heart. He is just a talking robot who has been taught how to be “the one we have been waiting for.” We have much to fear unless he is somehow caught in his own web. I pray it is soon and that he is exposed for all the unethical things and people he has been part of to get ahold of the most powerful job on earth.

  • rolling_thunder

    ANYWAY…it’s a great explanation of an empty suit and an overall good article. We still appreciate you Heidi.

  • pm317

    They would not vote to stop him in 2008, now they want a strategy for 2012 to stop him!

  • http://deleted Buzz Latte

    I take issue with those that took the liberal chicken way out and refused to vote for McCain. While it meant crossing party lines and it meant faux subscribing to a more conservative ideology, it also meant, in the largest sense, keeping Obama OUT of the White House.

    Whenever I hear whining from someone about Obama, I remind them that their own lack of a backbone has not only cost them, but they screwed me and mine over with their cowardice.

    It wasn’t exactly rocket science to figure out that if you didn’t want Obama you needed to vote for McCain.

    Now the big “regretors” are looking for an exit strategy. Screw them!

    Own the candidate you helped to elect by your poor choice of action!

    • Ferd Berfle

      I’m with you Buzz. I voted a straight Republican ticket for the first time ever and the first for a Republican candidate for President since 1976. Anyone who did otherwise and didn’t like That One was a coward.