Bush’s “State Secrets” Privilege

Maybe someday there will be justice for this obvious crime. Perhaps the international community will take action in the future. International laws must have been violated in some way, after WW11, Nazis were executed for lesser crimes, this needs some finality, this man was violated severely.

State secrets for state crimes, may justice prevail!

everything is a state secret these days, that or executive privilege. They are truly beyond the law. Our justice system is a jokeand everyone with half a brain knows it. we have our own Stasi now.
it’s like Richard Pryor used to say….
“You go down to the courthouse looking for justice thats what you’ll find , Just Us.”

RIP our moral- legal-ethical compass.

It would seem that the ball is back in the hands of the Germans.

Chancellor Merkel might be well advised to order, to the degree it is practicle and possible, the closure of a major US military installation within—say—120 days. Or, the removal of a major Army combat unit or even the V Corps Headquarters from Germany.

Only when the German government is willing to go to the mat for its citizens will the Bush administration yield.

How truly sad that our country has been dragged down to such depths, without a congress to stop them. Is there no one in the house of the people who will honor their CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY and throw out these TRAITORS??? They deserve, and will someday receive so very much more.

The torture and abuse of human and civil rights by these neo CONS is like a boil, festering with the pus of corruption. The only way to let it heal is to open it wide and drain all the bad stuff out, before the wound can heal. We must keep the words of truth alive, as they will be the scapel that opens the boil, so we can begin to heal. My heartfelt thanks to all of you here who do so much to keep hope alive.

Um… practical. My apologies.

When the Supreme Court buys the state secrets argument and dismisses individual rights, in accord with the wishes of the President, and when Congress won’t effectively engage the President on security matters and on the Constitutional powers of the branches of government, we’re in trouble.

I wouldn’t expect a US citizen to fare better than Khaled el-Masri did.

Exactly Teaeopy. Without any court oversight, Bush can abduct anyone, render them anywhere, torture them, detain them indefinitely and deny them any redress.

Bleats of “national Security,” “state secrets,” “classified,” “executive privilege,” are always the last refuge of scoundrels. The system worked last time. We flat don’t have the people of conscience, the congress, or the courts we had during Nixon.

Gawd..that bothers me leslie:
We kidnap an innocent guy for half a year and won’t even pay him 75k? Comeon!!
The CIA should step up and pay him a million for pain and suffering..If we had any morals at all a guy in a dark suit should show uo at this dudes door with a briefcase of cash…
Morals? did i just say that..how about justice?
How about what is right?
This story kindof really pisses the hoopster off..and you know me..an easy going guy..
If it happened to me or mine we would be talking millions of dollars in comp…
But brown skinned foreign guys? Well screw them i guess.. i better stop now..this story suks!!!

“If you want justice, go to a whorehouse. If you wanna get f***ed, go to court.” – Martin Vail

Like everywhere else, there is a large segment of the German economy enjoying sustained propserity due to the presence of Uncle Sam’s minions.

Some segments, in fact, getting stinkin’ rich.

I don’t think, being up to their fannies with former East Germans in their labor pool, that the Germans would be willing to cut off that much nose just to spite their faces.

How about taking it to the World Court?

Reminds me of old Jefferson Davis, the WORST American President until Bush. After the Confederacy went kaput he was captured and held prisoner for two years at Fortress Monroe under draconian conditions. The problem was the U.S. government couldn’t actually try him for treason because the trial would open up a Pandora’s Box of revenge trials. So they finally just released him because they couldn’t figure out what to DO with him.

Here’s one for you: “In the Halls of Justice the justice is in the halls.” Referring to the plea bargains that are struck before trial in order to prevent the courts from becoming gridlocked with too many cases.

I recall hearing somewhere that he is looking to get something like $76,000 in damages – unbelievable! The Administration should have just paid the man!

some additional info….

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2007/CIA-al-Masri-Kidnap31jan07.htm

more here….

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,507455,00.html

In this second story there is this quote……..

“The German government has said it will not pursue extradition requests for 13 CIA agents charged with kidnapping a German citizen and taking him to Afghanistan for interrogation and abuse. Relations with the US government, Berlin says, are more important.”

Condi Rice……….1

Angela Merkel….0

Ass kissing Washington……..too much to add up….billions and billions….

This case also applies to Bush’s domestic spying, due to the lack of oversight and accountability. Bush has free reign [sorry for pun] to do whatever he wants in total secrecy, and he gets to define what domestic spying is, what torture is [which Bush says we don't do].

Speaking of war crimes, and I consider this injustice as part of the total war crime list, I saw President Carter on CNN tonight, speak out against bushco. Just now found this video of BBC interview where he says he KNOWS Cheney and gang are guilty of torture…
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/10/carter-cheney-is-a-disaster-for-our-country/ Too bad we couldn’t bring him back on board to start fixing a few things on the International Peace front…

also, just read that Ray McGovern is going to be in Michigan on Monday. http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/27614 He is hosting an open forum, where he hopes people will ‘ask him tough questions. I hope to be there if at all possible. Any special questions you can think of that might be of interest??? Anyone else here like to join me???, Taters???

What we need is a “J’Accuse!” document by a modern Emile Zola to puncture the many Affaires Dreyfus this administration has fomented.

What happened to el-Masri is far worse than happened to Dreyfus. The accusation is far worse than was made of Dreyfus. The extent of the coverup is far worse than that around Dreyfus. The extent of the corruption is far worse than in the Affaire Dreyfus.

These people have not a shred of shame. They are naked.

State Secrets Privilege is becoming a disturbing trend. It’s worth wondering if it’s use could get out of control beyond the point of no return.

Start by not finding it in any law, or anywhere in the Constitution; it’s established by precedent.
The State Secrets Privilege and Executive Misconduct
by staff attorney Shayana Kadidal, one of the lead attorneys challenging the NSA Surveillance Program, Center for Constitutional Rights v. Bush.

In the Cold War-era case that established the state secrets privilege — United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1 (1953) — the Supreme Court noted that cases discussing this sort of broad privilege “ha[d] been limited in this country” but that the “English experience has been more extensive.” Essentially our Supreme Court imported the state secrets privilege from British law.

which because of differences in British government structure, works a little differently in the U.K.

So how concerned is the Supreme Court about the validity of the need for secrecy? According to the NYT, not very.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/washington/10scotus.html?ref=us

In this case, Solicitor General Paul D. Clement offered to let the justices see, “under appropriate security measures,” the classified declaration that the government filed in the lower courts to support its claim of privilege. The court evidently did not think that step was necessary.

What about a trend?

ABC News: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=3707025

At the height of Cold War tensions between the United States and the former Soviet Union, U.S. presidents used the state secrets privilege six times from 1953 to 1976, according to OpenTheGovernment.org. Since 2001, it has been used 39 times, enabling the government to unilaterally withhold documents from the court system

So is the point of no return in the foreseeable future?
It seems to me that the courts have at least as much responsibility to address this as Congress, since court precedent established the privilege, but I haven’t noticed a huge effort from either one.

Alberto Gitmo is now officially lawyered up:

Alberto Gonzales hires defense attorney By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON – “Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has hired a high-powered Washington lawyer to represent him in investigations of mismanagement of the Justice Department. George Terwilliger, a white-collar crime defense attorney and the second-ranking Justice official in the early 1990s, was on the White House’s short list last month to replace Gonzales.

…
The internal probe, which began in March, has expanded to include whether Gonzales inappropriately discussed the ousters in a meeting that former aide Monica Goodling later said made her feel “uncomfortable.” Her account led to questions of whether Gonzales was coaching Goodling, which could amount to witness tampering.

Gonzales has said he was merely trying to comfort Goodling at an awkward time.

Investigators also are looking into allegations that Goodling, and possibly other one-time aides, let politics play a part in hiring career prosecutors, in violation of the law.”

BUT WAS TEH HARRASSMENT CONSENSUAL? IT DEPEND UPON WHAT THE MEANING OF “IS” (according to the court) IS?

The truth isn’t really dorwning in irony, not enough to cause organ failure anyways.

More:
“Gonzales said the March 2004 dispute — which played out in part at the hospital bedside of a groggy Attorney General John Ashcroft — focused on “other intelligence activities.” Ashcroft was recovering from surgery at the time. Gonzales succeeded him in 2005. But Gonzales’ testimony was contradicted by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller and other former department officials.

Congress also is investigating the U.S. attorney firings and concerns about the surveillance program.

Terwilliger said he expects most, if not all, questions for Gonzales to come from the department. “I’ll be assisting him in connection with his continued cooperation with the Justice Department,” Terwilliger said.

Terwilliger was widely believed to be among the top three contenders for the attorney general post after Gonzales resigned. He spent 15 years at the department and eventually became deputy attorney general, the No. 2 official, under the first President Bush.

Terwilliger was among the legal experts who helped George W. Bush during the Florida recount in the contested presidential election of 2000.”

I wonder if he was comped for perks on the Enron flights to Dade County?

Did he travel to Dade County on a junket? What would Bob Novak have to say about that, since his son helped block the Gore votes from being counted too?

State Secrets cannot be enforced because people like Abu Gonzales have lawyered up.

Their lawyer is privy to info from the State nobody can access for claims of privilege?

How can attorney-client privilege be superceded via claims of state privlege?

There’s some pretty big Constitutional issues to face, and if the attorney gets full privlege for his client how can the State fairly proceed in any act without having full disclosure as well?

Should this not open a window of access for all? Was it a major part of what kept Bush so loyal to royal levels of incompetence?

JAGS in the know, lawyers, pros, please elaborate.

superseded*
privilege*

Yes, they ruined this innocent German man’s life. My advice to him would be to marry a Canadian and live happily ever after.

Correct.

Less Safe, Less Free
Why America Is Losing the War on Terror
David Cole and Jules Lobel

At home and abroad, the administration has cut corners on fundamental commitments of the rule of law in the name of preventing future attacks—from “waterboarding” detainees, to disappearing suspects into secret CIA prisons, to attacking Iraq against the wishes of the UN Security Council and most of the world when it posed no imminent threat of attacking us.

http://www.thenewpress.com/index.php?option=com_title&task=view_title&metaproductid=1640

I mentioned Jules Lobel in a prior response. He represented a man from Canada named Mahr Arar . Read about how he was treated in a black site.

Torture in Syrian prisons is well-documented. The state department’s own report cites an array of gruesome tortures routinely used in Syrian jails

The next morning, Arar says a Syrian intelligence officer arrived carrying a black electrical cable, two inches thick and about two feet long.

“He said, ‘Do you know what this is?’ I said, I was crying, you know, ‘Yes, I know what it is. It’s a cable.’ And he said, ‘Open your right hand.’ I opened my right hand … and he beat me very strongly,” says Arar. “He said, ‘Open your left hand.’ And I opened my left hand. And he beat me on my palm, on my left palm. And then he stopped, and he asked me questions. And I said to him, ‘I have nothing to hide.’”

Arar says the physical torture took place during the first two weeks, but he says he also went through psychological and mental torture: “They would take me back to a room, they call it the waiting room. And I hear people screaming. And they, I mean, people, they’re being tortured. And I felt my heart was going to go out of my chest.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/21/60II/main594974.shtml

If you think Canadians are safe, then you’ve forgotten about Maher Arar.

Yes, I remember the Arar case too but the Canadian government compensated him after the head of Canadian intelligence at the time, a first generation Italian-Canadian, was decent enough to admit misakes were made.

Can there be adequate compensation for illegal abduction, detention and torture? The best compensation would be to prevent it.

By the way, this post isn’t just about the Bush administration’s treatment of foreigners, but also how the administration treats US citizens by spying on them. The Supreme Court decision not to hear el-Masri’s case will probably make it more difficult for Americans to obtain redress regarding abuses as well.

Secrets? My ass! The very last person in this government who should be able to keep secrets is Bush! Or any President in general. Our Founding Fathers designed our government to be a Sunshine Government.

Our Founding Fathers designed our government to be a Sunshine Government.

I think Bush was thinking more in line of electromagnetic radiation instead of sunshine.

Oh, I HEAR you Leslie. September 04, somebody sent a cowboy from close to Houston over here to my small Italian town. He still had his boots on and was waiting in a restaurant for my friend (also an American) and I to show up. There was not another living soul in that place except for the owner/waiter. Yeah, and this guy even told me that my politics were wrong! After that, I didn’t accompany another friend to her doctor appointment because I was afraid to take the train.

From Article II of the Constitution:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

President George W. Bush has decided that he can declare himself to be protecting and defending us the citizens and let that ostensible course of action replace protecting and defending the Constitution. Congress, and sometimes the Supreme Court, have found Bush’s self-appointment as the Overrruler to be acceptable.

Saddly, now the United States is now a confirmed dictatorship. But it is the new style dictatorship where leaders are elected (fairly or unfairly – no matter) and told what to do.

The most dangerous elements of the political infrastructure, the military units, are left to run amok, beyond criticism and any form of accountability.

Injustice begins with your government as determined by your courts.

You know how some animals poison their prey before eating it? The poison only has to immobilize the prey, it doesn’t have to be lethal. Using techniques of propaganda, media control, corruption of legal institutions, and perhaps other means, our society, our culture has been rendered immobile. We can look at a case like this and be outraged, but the cultural nervous system no longer transmits motor impulses to the muscles. We can scream all we want, and no sound will come out, at least not anywhere where it might lead to action.

Identify the predator.

The courts have to end the secrecy. There is no such thing as open government when anything can be randomly declared a state secret. It is now being used almost exclusively to block criminal investigations into the Administrations alleged illegal activities.

That’s plain wrong and Americans are going to have to find their balls and start asserting their rights.

We can start by extraditing Cheney and Rumsfeld to Germany to be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. That should be the very first most basic thing.

The Bush’s interoffice communications from his term as Governor of Texas need to be opened up, then the interoffice communications and emails of the White House during the Bush Presidency. The contents of the infamous secret energy conference have to be made public.

There should be automatic prison time if documents are found to have been destroyed to prevent criminal investigations from obtaining information.

We’ve put up with this infantile behavior on the part of these idiots for too long. Let’s end it, like, yesterday.

Gangsters and criminals are the ones who need to keep secrets.

It’s not like we’re talking about revealing troop positions, anyway. The Iraqis already know our troop positions because we’re drive up and down their roads like sitting ducks anyway, as occupiers.

“Overruler” it should be above. Misspellings don’t fare as well in web searches.