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Imagine, For a Moment, What Might Have Been

Shortly after 2 AM, I turned on the television, and learned that Al Gore and the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had jointly won the Nobel Peace Prize for “for spreading awareness of man-made climate change and laying the foundations for counteracting it.” Gore has announced that he will donate all of the $1.5 million prize money to the Alliance for Climate Protection. Josh Marshall has written a particularly touching tribute to Gore:

There are several layers of irony and poetic justice wrapped into this honor. The first is that the greatest step for world peace would simply have been for Gore not to have had the presidency stolen from him in November 2000. By every just measure, Gore won the presidency in 2000 only to have George W. Bush steal it from him with the critical assistance of the US Supreme Court. It’s worth taking a few moments today to consider where the country and world would be without that original sin of this corrupt presidency.

Marshall continues:

And yet this is a fitting bookend, with Gore receiving this accolade while the sitting president grows daily an object of greater disapproval, disapprobation and collective shame. And let’s not discount another benefit: watching the rump of the American right detail the liberal bias of the Nobel Committee and at this point I guess the entire world. Fox News vs. the world. … Read all.

I’d like your thoughts on “where the country and world would be without that original sin of this corrupt presidency.”

Would 9/11 have occurred in a Gore presidency? It’s very possible. But what would have happened had highly knowledgeable terrorism specialists like Richard Clarke still had influence as he did during the Clinton administration? (Surely Gore would have kept Clarke on and not kicked him upstairs, as Bush did.) How would Gore have reacted to the attack? What immediate actions would he have taken? Could he have tamped down his VP Joe Lieberman?

How would the media have reacted to 9/11 under a Gore presidency? Faux News and Rush Limbaugh would surely have gone into non-stop attack mode, blaming Gore’s administration for failing to keep the country safe, for failing to strengthen intelligence, for allowing the hijackers into the country, and on and on. Of course — if I may point out the obvious — they didn’t lay a finger on Bush for 9/11.

There are so many more possible differences to consider. One is the Department of Justice, which Bush has decimated and politicized. Then there’s the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division. Beyond the “theft” of the election in 2000, there are many troubling questions about the fairness of the 2004 election. I bring that up because today’s TPMMucker has a particularly good story on “Bush’s Legacy on Voting Rights: A Story from Ohio.”

In June of 2005, John Tanner, the chief of the voting rights section, wrote Columbus, Ohio’s election officials to publicly assure them that the Justice Department had found no evidence of intentional African-American voter disenfranchisement in the 2004 election.

Not only was that an unprecedented move, former Department lawyers say, but the letter is another, and particularly galling, example of Tanner using the force of the Department to further Republican aims — in this case, to hamper future lawsuits or investigations concerning the problems in Columbus.

“It really looked like the Civil Rights Division was used to run interference for Republican election officials in Ohio,” former voting rights section deputy chief Bob Kengle told me.

At issue was the experience of thousands of voters in Franklin County, Ohio, in the 2004 election. Voters in mostly African-American precincts were forced to wait hours in long lines to vote. An investigation by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) found that voters often waited as many as four to five hours, some as many as seven, deep into the night. The Washington Post reported that “bipartisan estimates say that 5,000 to 15,000 frustrated voters turned away without casting ballots.” The culprit, of course, was a scarcity of voting machines in those districts, one that seemed to follow a suspicious trend: “27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush” and “six of the seven wards with the fewest machines delivered large margins for Kerry.”

But Tanner, who’s due to appear in a Congressional hearing, launched an investigation (more on that below) and found that “Franklin County assigned voting machines in a non-discriminatory manner,” …

[...]

Tanner seemed eager to poison the well. “It reads like a defense brief,” Kengle told me.

“Tanner bent over backwards to rule that black voters did not have a right to the same number of machines as white registered voters, and then went out of his way to make that ruling public,” said David Becker, a former attorney with the section, currently with People for the American Way. “It’s one of the most remarkably disconcerting things to come out of the voting section in a long time.”

For his part, Moore said that he doesn’t think that the evidence shows that Franklin County officials conspired to disenfranchise African-American voters. “Election officials are almost always more likely to be incompetent than venal,” he told me. “On the other hand, was it all because of different voting patterns? Or did black precincts get neglected? I know we didn’t try very hard to find out.” (Read all.)

I don’t think I’ll ever forget how shocking it was to see the videos of the long, long lines of black voters in Ohio. It is a national embarrassment. One of many since 2000.

Then there’s extraordinary rendition. Rendition began under the Clinton Administration, but in a different form — which I wrote about in “Outsourcing Torture: Secret History (FBI v. CIA).” I quoted Jane Mayer’s story for The New Yorker. Mayer interviewed CIA terrorism specialist Michael Scheuer on the changes in rendition procedures:

[Michael] Scheuer claimed that “there was a legal process” undergirding these early renditions. Every suspect who was apprehended, he said, had been convicted in absentia.

Since September 11th, as the number of renditions has grown, and hundreds of terrorist suspects have been deposited indefinitely in places like Guantánamo Bay, the shortcomings of this approach have become manifest. “Are we going to hold these people forever?” Scheuer asked. …

As unpalatable as rendition is — it was “begun in desperation,” Michael Scheuer told Jane Mayer, and approved by Richard Clarke (follow the link to find out why, because it’s not a simple issue) — UPI intelligence reporter Richard Sale points out that, as the Clinton administration set it up, it was intended as a way to try suspects in a U.S. court, with all the protections afforded U.S. citizens:

Although current news accounts almost without exception picture rendition as negative, in fact it has a positive side: It is used by the CIA and FBI to gain custody of major suspects from countries that do not have an extradition treaty with the United States, thus enabling U.S. intelligence agencies to interrogate them and bring them to the United States for a fair trial and imprisonment if convicted, several serving and former U.S. intelligence officials said.

All of those legal protections have been abandoned by the Bush administration. And the interrogations? Back then, the interrogations were led by experts like the FBI’s Dan Coleman, who never used torture but instead gained the trust of suspects and treated them like human beings:

Coleman was angry that lawyers in Washington were redefining the parameters of counter-terrorism interrogations. “Have any of these guys ever tried to talk to someone who’s been deprived of his clothes?” he asked. “He’s going to be ashamed, and humiliated, and cold. He’ll tell you anything you want to hear to get his clothes back. There’s no value in it.”

Coleman said that he had learned to treat even the most despicable suspects as if there were “a personal relationship, even if you can’t stand them.” He said that many of the suspects he had interrogated expected to be tortured, and were stunned to learn that they had rights under the American system. Due process made detainees more compliant, not less, Coleman said.

He had also found that a defendant’s right to legal counsel was beneficial not only to suspects but also to law-enforcement officers. Defense lawyers frequently persuaded detainees to coöperate with prosecutors, in exchange for plea agreements.

“The lawyers show these guys there’s a way out,” Coleman said. “It’s human nature. People don’t coöperate with you unless they have some reason to.”

He added, “Brutalization doesn’t work. We know that. Besides, you lose your soul.” [WELL, only if you have one to begin with.]

That was then. Back then, in the “quaint” days of the Clinton/Gore administration. I am fairly confident that President Gore would have perpetuated those legal measures to bring terrorists to justice, maintained the FBI’s method of interrogating prisoners and not found it necessary to resort to torture, and that there’d be no Guantanamo.

Richard Sale concluded his UPI article by quoting Larry Johnson:

“I think the greatest mistake of this administration has been that they have ignored the expertise of the FBI in these matters,” said [former CIA and State Department official Larry Johnson]. “The FBI is enormously skilled in extracting information from people in a non-threatening way.

“Instead, this administration has given control to U.S. Special Forces and the U.S. military, who frankly don’t have a clue. Look at Abu Ghraib. It’s dispiriting.”


What a difference a stolen election can make.

Again: I’d like your thoughts on “where the country and world would be without that original sin of this corrupt presidency.”

  • Bill Keyes

    Apologies for going off topic….susan..

    Everybody please be aware that Susan’s surgery is soon and let her know we all praying for its successful conclusion and her speedy recovery.

    Will comment on topic later….

  • Mikey

    “Would 9/11 have occurred in a Gore presidency? It’s very possible.”

    What level of denial does one have to remain in to keep making statements like this? Has it not sunk in 7 years later that 9/11 could only have happened with the necessary Bush administration assets in place. Just for starters, go back and review all the network’s tapes of that day and then tell me that a pre-scripted propaganda matrix was not already in place. Yes the Date 9/11/2001 would have happened on our calendars but no planes would have flown into any buildings to the tune of cheering Mossad operatives. Jesus! Wake up and smell the coffee beans people!
    Ever So Sincerely,
    Mikey

  • http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com Lisa

    What a difference a stolen election can make.

    That being the case, shouldn’t we all be rallying behind the ONLY federal legislation that takes a large step in the right direction, imperfect as it is (as ALL legislation is, don’t kid yourself)?

    PLEASE. Until we fix our elections, we really CAN’T fix anything else, because we have no power. And if we don’t fix them by 2008, we’re likely to see yet another stolen election, because we still haven’t fixed the problems that led to the first two.

    PLEASE, people. Support HR 811 LOUDLY if you want your fantasies to have the chance of becoming realities!

  • http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

    The Nobel Peace Prize…AMAZING! It’s wonderful. Gore is the only person who could put global warming front and center the way he has. Now he has the Nobel Peace Prize to help him do more. Really great.

    This may be why he won’t run again too. He has much bigger fish to help save—the entire planet.

    • Bill Keyes

      Comment by Leslie | 2007-10-12 17:31:04

      “This may be why he won’t run again too. He has much bigger fish to help save—the entire planet.”

      I agree, but what worries me is if the US continues not to take global warming seriously and take the lead it may be too late. And while I believe Hillary if she wins would do what she could, she will have a lot higher priorities. Who knows maybe he could be part of her administration

      If the Repugs win I suggest everyone on both coasts prepare to move to higher ground.

  • Dee Loralei

    Susan, First, best of luck in your upcoming surgery and recovery. I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Second, thanks for bringing this up. And congrats to Mr Gore on his often lonely leadership on this subject.

    I’ve thought about it a lot.I actually thought about starting a blog about it, call it Sept 12, in an alternative universe wishful thinking kind of way. For the sake of this discussion, I’ll accept that Sept 11 would have happened anyway. Gore’s response would have been far, far different. One, I think he would have immediately headed back to DC, and told his SS detail that his country needed him, his personal safety wasn’t of upmost importance. Fear never would have become our daily bread. A rational and sane Pres Gore would have done the FDR thang. And quoted Lincoln as well, the no great armies of all the great nations with the greatest generals etc could take down America.

    I think he would have really worked the diplomacy thing and convinced the Taliban that it would behoove them to hand over AlQ and promise them the monies etc to rebuild their country after 20 years of war. He may have had to actually send the army in, or done air strikes, but I think he would have been less bellicose at the outset.

    I think he would have been all over the anthrax thing too, putting serious resources behind the investigation. I think all the 9-11 hearings would have been open to the public and all testimony would have been sworn. I think he would have taken absolute blame in a Truman kinda buck stopping way. I do not think he would have allowed the Bin Laden family to leave the country until the FBI and CIA had questioned them.

    When they realized that 15 of the 19 were Saudi’s, I think a Pres Gore would have responded differently. With what he knew then about global climate change, with the recession we were in at the time, with the California energy crunch etc. I think he would have started a massive national TVA or space project type program too address our reliance on foreign oil= bad national defense, global warming = bad national defense. And he would have begun greening up our government. And our civil society. We would have started a new WPA to go green, and to rebuild infrastructure etc. A massive influx of public monies to research etc, And yes, raised taxes to help pay for it all. And those new jobs would have rebuilt the middle-class. Spurred science and engineering education and made us the world leader in clean energy, etc. And we’d be exporting all that technology and know-how around the world.

    Iraq would never have been on the table. Guatanamo never would have occured. Real people would have been tried and found guilty for Sept 11. And yes, my guess is Osama would have been caught and tried, or killed in his redoubt.

    On that Dec20th day when the Supreme Court annointed King George the 43rd, this country the world spun widely off it’s axis, and maybe today with this award it is slowly begining to right itself.

    I can only despair that such horrors came to pass and we citizens basically allow them to continue to occurin our names.

    Again, best of luck on Monday.

    Dee

    • http://noquarterusa.net/blog/ Leslie

      Dee,
      Hey, LOL, I had a blog for a while called, “In an Alternate Universe.” The tagline on the blog was, “Since Bush became President, I feel as if I’m living in an alternate universe.”

      Gore definitely would’ve responded differently to 9/11, had there been a 9/11. For one thing, he wouldn’t have been reading about frigging pet goat and staring blankly into a camera for five minutes. But if Gore had been president, 9/11 might’ve been prevented. Because Gore wouldn’t have waited 9 months into his presidency to call a frigging principles meeting, demoted Richard Clarke, or ignored countless warnings.

      Gore wouldn’t have invaded Iraq. He wouldn’t be threatening to bomb Iran…on and on.

      Alas.

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      Dee, this is a simply wonderful contribution. You’ve really thought hard and long about it. There’s too much you’ve contributed to address one by one, but this one shouted out at me: “I think he would have started a massive national TVA or space project type program … And he would have begun greening up our government. And our civil society. We would have started a new WPA to go green, and to rebuild infrastructure etc. A massive influx of public monies to research etc”

      YES! YES! YES!

      And besides all of the huge benefits from these programs, those programs would have brought us TOGETHER as a nation.

      The weird part is that a lot of Americans would have never appreciated how great a presidency that Gore would have fashioned — unless they would have also been forced to live with a Bush presidency. And he would have been attacked constantly.

    • PrchrLady

      Excellent post Dee, thanks!!!

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com Other Lisa

    Where to begin?

    No war in Iraq. No outsourced torture. No shredding of the Constitution. No gutting of regulatory agencies tasked with looking after the peoples’ interests. Real progress on global warming and developing alternative agencies.

    Not having to be ashamed of my country.

    Susan, best of luck on your upcoming surgery. I know it’s going to make a huge difference in your life!

    • http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

      Thank you, Lisa, and hugs to you.

      And YES to not being ashamed anymore. My great hope is that people around the world know that most of us Americans are despairing of our government’s behavior in the past seven years, and know that we too want change. I’m just devastated, however, that hundreds of thousands of people have suffered so much due to this administration’s wars and policies.

  • http://papertigertail.blogspot.com Other Lisa

    Uh, in my comment, that should read “developing alternative energy sources.” I don’t quite know how I managed to combine that into “agencies.”

  • Teaeopy

    I don’t believe that Al Gore would have played both sides of the fence on Islam. I don’t believe that he would have expediently (for political and military recruiting purposes) implied that all Muslims are a “they” who “attacked us” on one side of the fence, and on the other side of the fence sent US personnel and treasure to nation-build the Islamic Republic of Iraq, the constitution of which establishes Islam as a foundation of law. The price that is still being paid for the duplicity of President George W. Bush is immeasurable. I could get wound out on the subject.

  • Bill Keyes

    This is indeed a great day for Al Gore and he should bask i n the glow of this accomplishment. While it will never wipe out the memory of Dec 2000, it is a bit of sweet revenge.

    I would say that if he would listen to anyone he should listen to the stirring words of one of our great Presidents, JFK who said..

    ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU,

    ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY.

    YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU MR VICE PRESIDENT

    ALL MANKIND NEEDS YOU MR VICE PRESIDENT

    PLEASE CONSIDER OUR CALL.

  • http://thumbsnap.com/v/78mn2yFc.jpg 1Watt

    “Would 9/11 have occurred in a Gore presidency? It’s very possible.”

    I disagree, remember Hart-Rudman was passed & handed to Bush, who handed it to Cheney, who did nothing with it until Sept 10.

    That bill would have put locks on cockpit doors, screened passengers better, etc.

  • graywolf

    We wouldn’t have had the tax cuts that resucitated the economy after the 1-2 punch of Clinton and 9/11.

    The DJI probably would not be near its current level… and I wouldn’t be as rich as I am.

    • http://www.food4humanity.org HoosierHoops

      WEEEE!!! I’m rich!!
      Thanks for that greybeard..

      Good post Cee..
      As I look back ( I voted for Gore )
      I feel confident that there would have been no Iraq War..And Gore would have done a great job with the economy..Remember when he first came into office on the Clinton statement ‘ It’s the economy, Stupid’ ?
      The first thing they did was had an economic summit and began in motion one of the greatest recoveries in many generations..
      so lets get the scorecards out..
      No War..Check
      Economy..Check
      Environment..Check
      9-11 victory and resolution..Check
      leadership..check
      intellegence..Check

      I’d say that’s worth an A+

      • http://www.food4humanity.org HoosierHoops

        I meant greywolf..My apologies greybeard..

    • Chris Vosburg

      You’re not rich, you’re simply in hock up to your eyeballs and think you’re rich. By the way, you’re about to lose your house.

  • Teaeopy

    You might want to straighten out all those Republican candidates who don’t want to mention their President Bush or see him around.

    • Teaeopy

      That was a reply to graywolf.

  • Philip Henika

    It is my hope that the winning of the Nobel Prize for
    Al Gore and the UN Panel on climate change will
    exacerbate the creation of a global peacebuilding
    initiative probably in the form of a UN Resolution.

    The goals of 21st Century, IMO, should be to end war,
    end disease, use energy efficiently, adapt to climate
    change and use computer technology re: multifactorial
    analysis.

    IMO, a peace process based on a single factor such as
    violence or climate change is no longer effective with a history in which globalization has replaced the Cold War. The increased number of global issues means that all nations have more in common which increases the need for mediation and nonpartisanship in foreign policy.

    I have noticed calls for increased International
    cooperation e.g. in the conferences on policy re:
    terrorism in SE Asia and today’s post by Andrew
    Cochran at the CT Blog re: disruption of terrorist
    group financing.

    Basically, I see the reality of a global peacebuilding initiative in fits and starts but not in its totality as a testable hypothesis. It still seems that pre-World War III tensions prevail which lends itself to nothing more than frustration.

  • GR3

    The most important thing to me would be that Cheney would not be in control of our liberties, state revenues, and political agenda. Even Lieberman could not be as bad an influence.
    Of course, there would be ongoing impeachment inquiries from the repugs.
    This whole question of alternate histories reminds me of ‘The Man in the High Castle’ by Philip K. Dick. If the neocons get their way with attacking Iran, we may be looking back to a possible Gore presidency with envy: before WWIII and the dissolution of the country.

  • Graybeard

    It was said on Olbermann tonight that Gore dislikes Hillary. We can hope he dislikes her enough to defeat her in the primaries.

    GB

  • plane

    If Gore had won, neoconservatism would not have been completely discredited. The religious right would still be marching with the Republican mainstream. And the Republican party would not have become a permanent minority…..thanks George!

    • Fred C. Dobbs

      Had Gore been inaugurated, and had the WTC attacks taken place, he would have been a one term president. The VRWC Slime Machine would have drummed up enough rumble among the rubes to make impeachment about 75/25 FOR.

      I wouldn’t count, “conservatives,” out yet. After all, there’s still the TVA to sell, Yellowstone to subdivide, and your house and mine haven’t been foreclosed upon yet. And, adjusted for Inflation, I still earn more than I would have in the Gilded Age.

      Things (world situation, stock market, environment) could still go down the pooper between 2009 and 2013. I would prefer to, when living under a bridge and washing windshields for Sterno money, know that the country was run off a cliff when idiot Republican hands were on the controls.

  • mudkitty

    That’s looking on the bright side…sort of.

  • mudkitty

    How ’bout this…? No 9/11.

  • Chris Vosburg

    SusanUnPC writes: Would 9/11 have occurred in a Gore presidency? It’s very possible.

    I think it’s unlikely. Richard Clarke’s book details a litany of differences between the Clinton and Bush admins’ respective appreciations of the importance of the doings of Osama bin Laden and al Quaeda, and makes a pretty clear case that Bush simply wasn’t paying attention– a bad quality for a president.

    I won’t go into further detail because it’s all been said so many times before, but to knock it down to soundbite, President Al Gore would, I presume, not have ignored the findings and recommendations of the 1997 report prepared by Vice President Al Gore at the behest of his President on the subject of how to protect the American people best from the dismal prospect of terrorism with airplanes. Yes, that’s right: the Gore Commission report.

    Gee, isn’t life ironic?

  • mudkitty

    Gore wouldn’t have needed 5 year old intel. Gore would have heeded the August ’01 warnings.

    Come on people!

  • CW

    You ask what would have happened if Gore was President?

    I’m afraid we could have easily had an assassination, with President Lieberman taking the reigns and allowing the entire PNAC agenda to go forward. The neocons would have salivated at the opportunity.

    I believe that President Gore would have been a prodent, just man who would have resisted the temptation to take on Iraq and Iran. President Lieberman, on the other hand… scares me.

  • Centrocitta

    I can’t help noticing that Lieberman is not a semitic name.

  • Arminius

    This is nutty.

    Would a President Gore have stopped 9/11? Did Vice President Gore stop the bombings of our embassies in Africa in August 1998, the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000, the bombing of the Khobar Towers, the first attack on the WTC? How about the OKC bombing?

    “But what would have happened had highly knowledgeable terrorism specialists like Richard Clarke still had influence as he did during the Clinton administration?”

    Clarke was named counterterrorism czar in early 1998. Several months later we had bombings of our embassies in Africa in August 1998. Later, we had the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000. Seems that the man was incompetent.

    Louis Freeh on Clarke: “Janet Reno, myself, and others who were charged with monitoring and reacting to terrorists threats convened regularly with Sandy Berger to discuss national security issues. The deputy national security adviser would be on hand. So would other deputies at times, it wasn’t just top dogs. But Dick Clarke was almost never included in those so-called principals meetings. Given the grandeur of his title, I found his absence conspicuous.”

    And let’s not forget that it was Clinton’s sanctions on Iraq (because he said Saddam had WMD) that gave us 9/11 and other “messages with no words.”

    Go to http://www.archive.org and insert this URL in the Wayback Machine: http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/impact/9705/09/feature/transcript.ladin.html.

    “Then there’s extraordinary rendition. Rendition began under the Clinton Administration, but in a different form.”

    Not according to Michael Scheuer:

    PBS: “We haven’t done this yet, but define what rendition meant post-9/11.”

    “I think it means the same thing as it did before 9/11. [Rendition] is to identify individuals whom we knew were either ready to participate in an attack on the United States or was involved in planning an attack. The emphasis again, from ’95 to ’05, is to get that person off the street.”
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/interviews/scheuer.html

    As far as torture, Scheuer said, “There was a small broadening in what you could do in terms of trying to get someone to talk, but none of them ever approached what anyone would describe as torture.”

    And Bush stole the 2000 election? You’re as nutty as Larry Johnson.